Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[IH]

Son of a bitch, I don't need replacement. I just came off a hellish week with almost zero internet access, (which caused me to not only, "abandon" my newbie game, but also get replaced in nightless). I also just got my laptop back but have to back it up tonight because it has to be sent off again, because HP breaks things that they're supposed to fix (like SWITCHES TO TURN ON WIRELESS)

Also, to be fair, I'm perfectly capable of lurking exactly the same, no matter my alignment. Patrick did come off an experience where I lurked as such as scum, but I did so as town in the same exact manner in a number of other games, most notably open 19, where I did eventually catch up. If I get a free moment tonight I will most definitely catch up.

For the record I <3 all of you guys for being patient to put up with my stupidity of actually joining mafia games.

[chamber]

MBL's guesses:

.5 of {Ether-town
chamber-town
bluesoul-town
IH-town
Elias-town
OGML-town } = scum

1.5 of {Patrick, DGB, Sarc, PJ} = scum

e_k-scum

I need to look into individual relationships carefully. e_k+PJ is not likely, but PJ still feels a little scummy. e_k+Patrick+DGB or e_k+Sarc+DGB or e_k+Patrick+Sarc wouldn't shock me.

I'll be somewhat surprised if Ether or chamber is scum. I'll be minimally surprised if bluesoul or OGML is scum. I'm wondering if Elias and IH would be posting more (feeling guilty about letting down their scumpartners) if they're scum. It's entirely possible that they're jerkwad lazy irresponsible lurking scum. I thought IH was cooler than that, but then again he should be cooler as town as well.

I realize I have multiple theories on some players (Elias and PJ, for example). Maybe they'll spur someone who knows these players better to comment on which theory seems to fit better.

Since dgb still isn't here I'm gonna ask 'why?'. You've explained some but many are ?s for me.

[elvis_knits]

e_k is weird. Not certain if this is a style thing that rubs me weird or if she's actually scum. It almost seems too obvious.

elvis: "i like chamber", nothing on elias or IH

Maybe that's because elias and IH have contributed basically nothing. Are you saying I have a bias toward them?

barely anything on OGML

Why is this significant? Do you think there is something of his I should comment on? Do you comment on every aspect of every person's play?

she doesn't have a problem with PJ but doesnt want to be tied to him

I have already explained why I think trying to pair people on D1 is often misleading and usually scummy. Also, suggesting I am scum partners with someone is also suggesting I am scum. Which I kinda don't like. First of all because I am not scum. Second of all, I think it's a backhanded way of confronting someone of being scum. Reeks of manipulation.

wanted patrick to explain something, wants to be seen not liking patrick

You are attributing motivations to me you can't know or prove. You are framing my actions in a way to make me look scummy.

calls ether underhanded

One aspect of her play... not everything, not ether herself. Stop inflating.

wants to be seen as willing to hammer DGB

I

am

willing to hammer DGB. Is there something of my play that leads you to believe I am not actually willing to do it?

Also, I notice how you are derailing her bandwagon.

defends sarcastro, otherwise ignores him--possible scumpartner, could just be kissing up to town?

When did I defend sarcastro? I have no memory of this.

asked bluesoul his opinion of me, said something bluesoul did was "weird"
smells something amiss in MBL's behavior, etc etc
trying to prove herself to ether/gain approval

Explain how any of that is scummy.

95% certainty Ether and e_k aren't partners--don't think she'd seek approval from a scumpartner
95% certainty e_k and PJ aren't partners--don't think she'd draw so much attention to her displeasure being connected to a scumpartner
85% certainty e_k and chamber aren't partners--gut.

You haven't calculated the possibilty that I am an SK.

[MrBuddyLee]

The big two townish for me are Ether and chamber, and I believe I've explained both. The big scum is e_k, who I've also explained.

IH is off the townish list, and I still don't know if Elias is so lazy as to lurk his way through a scum victory. (He's proud of his 10-1 record as scum, but who would brag about that if all they do is outlurk?)

OGML, something about his posts seemed to indicate curiosity and genuine uncertainty. I could be wrong.

Patrick, he's being reasonable, creating a lot of opinions, but the back-and-forth between him and e_k has felt off from time to time. So mixed signals there.

PJ, he's unmotivated. Not sure why he volunteered to "sit in until law school" if he didn't plan to nail a few scum. Things aren't adding up for me with him, and I call shenanigans.

Sarc, I don't have a good meta on him. A few things he said struck my gut as townish, but he also doesn't seem too interested in moving the game forward at this point.

DGB is all over the map and seems to want to be hammered. Or is employing lame reverse psychology as scum. Suspicions that don't seem to match up with reality or be consistent. I see a DGB lynch as about as much of a coinflip as lynching Elias or IH right now. Except that her wagon's come together so easily, either her scumpartners are thrilled to bus or scum are slavering over the easy mislynch she's handing them.

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, I notice how you are derailing her bandwagon.

Odds of DGB+e_k scumpair rising rapidly.

[Thestatusquo]

Pablito replaces PJ. Good luck at law school!

[pablito]

I'm here, and I have read most pages (up to page 10 I think). I have a saved post somewhere that I was writing along with as I was reading the thread, which I will post as soon as I can. I'd do it right now, but I have to say that I'm not sober and that's not going to work well.

[elvis_knits]

Also, I notice how you are derailing her bandwagon.

Odds of DGB+e_k scumpair rising rapidly.

Are you saying you're not derailing DGB wagon?

[MrBuddyLee]

No, of course not. I'm uneasy about the way it's built.. whole thing lacks due diligence. I agree DGB's not making it easy on town.. unless she's scum and then I'll look like a dirty rotten scoundrel tomorrow.

Which is why I'm thinking your fangs are showing.

[MrBuddyLee]

Dear Elias,

It's been 18 days since your last post. I'm sure summer camp is a blast, but that's ridiculous. Why the fuck did you agree to play an invitational this summer? I hope you get poison ivy on your balls.

Sincerely,
MBL

[MrBuddyLee]

Dear IH,

It's also been 18 days since you posted anything remotely useful. At least you seem remorseful, but that's not indicative of alignment, only of intent to post. And we need to know your alignment, pronto.

I just reread your play in Face to Face. We killed you night one because you played very well day one. You didn't nail scum, but you were looking in the right directions, making massive analysis posts. You seemed to actually enjoy reading through people's posts, looking for subtleties.

Whether you are town or scum, please endeavor to summon up that same enthusiasm for this game. This player lineup is about as good as that game's was.

If you are scum, and make long analytical posts like you did in F2F, I

will

catch you. Double dare ya.

Sincerely,
MBL

[Patrick]

Welcome pablito.

MBL, I don’t have any meta on elias, but I don’t see why deliberate lurking (which I’m still not convinced he’s doing) would make him more likely town. If a scum lurks and succeeds in flying under the radar because of it, they’re not really letting their team down. A lurking townie is nearly always letting the town down.

I feel that Ether could be posting more at this point, especially since she’s leaving tomorrow and already made a point of telling us how she’d be struggling to contribute much after her last holiday because of our lack of time.

I’m still kind of in two minds, but I don’t want the possibility of a DBGscum getting through by just stalling on us.

[MrBuddyLee]

DGB, let me explain why you're getting your ass run up this game. It's not some metagame-related conspiracy.

1. Unbelievability:

Bluesouls seems to jump from extremes of helpfulness to historical records of kraplogick.

If you really thought bluesoul was being "extremely helpful" then wouldn't you make more of an effort to see his "kraplogick" as innocent mistakes on his part or differences you could work through with him?

That whole bit about percentages was a total red herring argument. There is no way this argument was about an actual scumtell, it seemed very contrived and planned. Bus'ing is definitely a possibility here.

You really think two scum would force a disjointed, annoying, pain-in-the-ass argument like that on day one? Even as you admit it would limit their claiming options?

2. Hyperbole:

So far you are guilty only of misrepresentation.

3. Wording questions to make it look like you're pressing for votes:

Then YOU don't vote Patrick.

Erm, why not?

Explain how your noticing this about bluesoul doesn't lead to a vote for bluesoul?

4. Inconsistency:

the only player that I find scummy is bluesoul. And even him, only borderline scummy. Everyone is looking pretty townie right now.

First, PJ put a KRAP vote on me. Then elvis followed suit.

unvote, vote: MrBuddyLee - here's your scum on a silver platter.

5. Veiled threats:

Who has considered the possibility that I have a power role?

6. Generalities:

If your vote is on someone and you haven't built a convincing case, you're suspect.

You'll find a few such on my present wagon.

(Who are the scum on your wagon, and if you think the scum are all over your wagon, why aren't you voting them instead of me, the person who doesn't necessarily think you're scum?)

7. Giving up:

(picture of a hammer)


I hope you guys have a more productive day tomorrow.

Lame. Are you a mouse or a mafia player? Or inartful scum trying to play on our guilt, either irritated at your scumpartners for busing you or satisfied that they've distanced themselves from you well today?


BUT!

You've found a load of contradictions in people's play and asked relatively insightful questions that lead me to believe you might be looking for truth.

MBL, what's the diff between indignant town and indignant scum?

Explain how your noticing this about bluesoul: "How do you know whether or not the scum were allowed to talk before the game started?" doesn't lead to a vote for bluesoul?

So you're playing sloppily but not necessarily scummily. But you refuse to do the legwork now, so you shouldn't be shocked that people see you as disposable:

Or are the rest of you continue to totally dismiss everything I post as scummy, so why am I wasting my time? I'm starting to thing you just want to get rid of me because I'm DrippingGoofball and no one cares about actually making an effort to truly assess my alignment.

Horseshit. I'm sitting here trying to engage you in discussion and you're taking your box of Kleenex and going home. Let's find some scum--quit being such a crybaby!

[chamber]

A few examples aside I think the only thing gdb is really guilty of is over exaggerating profusely.

The most subtle example of this perhaps is her inconsistencies in attacking. If she really does feel everyone looks somewhat townish (which is exaggerated in itself I'm sure) She would still feel the need to vote for someone yet everyone would be close on her scumdar, this explains why she would be jumping around as often as she is, on top of that once she found someone to be the most scummy, she would attack them and again exaggerate leaving the impression of her finding them far more scummy then she actually does.

[MrBuddyLee]

choo choo: petroleumjelly/pablito, bluesoul, Sarcastro, elvis_knits, Ether, Patrick

Ether, you say that DGB's wagon gives you a bad feeling. But you're still voting for her--that smells not so fresh. Do you really think we're at the emergency "must lynch now" point? And would you rather lynch a townie than no-lynch? Cause I rarely would.

If she's town, which of the people on her wagon are scummy opportunists and which are wrong for the right reasons?

I think everyone should weigh in on this, and assume that DGB will not claim and will get lynched for it. How do we feel about various people tomorrow if she comes up town? Comes up scum?

ps: note, none of our lurkers have managed to sleaze their way over on to DGB. odd.. you'd think that if she's scum, a scum amongst the lurkers would have found a reason to make the safe, lazy play and get on her wagon by now.

[bluesoul]

ps: note, none of our lurkers have managed to sleaze their way over on to DGB. odd.. you'd think that if she's scum, a scum amongst the lurkers would have found a reason to make the safe, lazy play and get on her wagon by now.

Unless she's scum and her lurking buddies see lurking as the optimal play versus bussing. They're staying mostly under the wagon, they're getting called out for lurking but we don't have a lurkerwagon at all; I wouldn't be sweating it too much either.

I have bad feelings about Ether that will be reinforced should DGB turn up scum. I don't know if I could give an exact reason at the moment if asked, it's more vibes and interactions than anything solid. Either way I plan to do a full re-read Day Two with the death/deaths taken into account.

As an aside, I realize my activity has slowed down slightly, I'm working quite a bit during this last stretch of Back To School. I'm not gonna lie, I'm also consciously not posting as much; a lot of the arguments lately are a little silly to me and not really indicative of scum either way, but I don't really see any need to say that every day or so.

I am still concerned about the possibility of a deadline but I'm also pleased to see more activity, so some of my fears are alleviated for the moment.

[bluesoul]

EBWODP: "under the wagon" in the first paragraph should be "under the radar", I just got back from 36 holes of disc golf and I'm a little heat strokey.

[pablito]

First post. Chronological order of reading. Hi everyone. I'm not back for good. Just this game. Better be good. I think I've played with everyone here except bluesoul and elias...and maybe OMGL, but I think I modded a game with him in it. I shall try my hardest to live up to the reputation and logic of PJ, but yeah, you know I'm different than he.

No thought on the quick MBL wagon. Doesn't seem to root itself in scumminess, moreso in personality squabbles that have gone on since I've been gone. I like that the game ran out of the gate though. Much like how the sea monkeys party with shandy and brandy when the cats are in heat.

Quick first impression bad vibes on Ether and Sarc for some reason. Just pings me bad. As far as first page impressions can go. Sarc for the lack of awareness of the bandwagon. Not so much for jumping on, but the fact that he didn't in the first place. Oh, I see that MBL pointed that out for me too. Maybe I'm not used to being around a mostly serious Ether. Could be it.

I like IH's post 159. It finally cleared up for me what was going on with the whole MBL scumbuddy discussion. It also showed me that IH has been reading. He needs a book-it certificate.

e_k backs up way too quickly in post 26 for my taste. If you're going to be obnoxious, follow up. Something something kid gloves.

I also like how MBL and Ether went on about bluesoul. I really like how Ether went about bluesoul stressing the "damage of that post" all despite not really thinking about MBL's alignment. On page 2, I really don't agree with anything bluesoul says. I'm sorry, but I had to gloss over most of it because a lot of it angered me because it just didn't seem like it was based in logical sense. All this absent players stuff and then the distancing thing. Cool, and PJ agrees with me. Usually I disagree a lot with the person I replace (see IH in LO2), but this time it makes a lot of sense.

And here's why I begin to disagree. I'm taking DGB as not too serious of a threat, and PJ strikes for the buttering up of other players. I don't see such a horrible sin in it. But I do agree with e_k that liking a player should not make one believe that the person is more or less town or scum. If anything, it should mean that the "fan" has more ammo to believe that the "star" player is more or less town or scum. If DGB had reason to believe that those three were significantly less scum, that's fine. But I don't see the progression in it. But the act of opening this up isn't horrible in my eyes.

I'm not sure where bluesoul is going with his attack on DGB. He really sounds like he's jumping on a wagon. I should also note at this point that I've been drinking, so the quality will begin to deteriorate. I don't know why bluesoul nor MBL are trying to get into the math. At this point, I'm going to say that bluesoul is at least becoming even more consistent. But really. Why even bother go that route? However, I have to really admire that bluesoul managed to agree to stop talking about it and entice MBL to move onward. But what really gets me is that MBL moves forward quickly with significant questioning whereas bluesoul mostly just wants to be done with being on the defense. Could be scummy on bluesoul's part, could be actual frustration. I think it could easily be frustration. Nonetheless, we should also point to how bluesoul tries to deflect onto DGB.

I like IH in post 159. He shows that he read through and was able to interpret something which had been a long time brewing. I get this argument about everyone connecting everyone else together. In particular, e_k in 222.

I heavily agree on chamber's assessment in post 197. I'm finding it hard to discover where Sarc has been terribly helpful., especially in that specific post. Then again, I am somebody who is just reading a list of posts all in one session without the context of actual reaction time and time exposed overall. Maybe there is a good Sarc post embedded that I just happened to pass over. So far in this game I mostly remember MBL, bluesoul and oddly enough Ether.

In regards to DGB talking about MBL discussing Patrick, I'm confused. I don't see how DGB could have read that MBL was truly building a serious case against Patrick. I sense that DGB was really wanting to move the heat away from her but did so haphazardly. So that means possibly that DGB is frustrated in defense (quite obvious actually). I don't know if it means that she's scum or town, but nonetheless, she's becoming more and more useless to the town. I wouldn't mind if she gets lynched just so we get more information out, but only if we are in serious deadline territory. DGB's post 259 seriously stands out to me.

You're not buttering him up now, are you?

Smells malicious. Usually I've seen DGB enter anger and overall frustration when on the defense, but as far as I remember (and it has been such a long time) I don't remember too much directed snippiness, mostly reactive snippiness. I remember DGB being a jabber on the attack. Jibba jabba.

I generally feel that MBL always adds content, and I've never experienced otherwise, so I don't see what Patrick has said in 261. Then again, maybe I've just been lucky to get the productive MBL in my games.

I have seen DGB state something to the like of "have you thought that I might have a power role" in Insect Mafia or something named like that. She turned out to be a vig, but a very very wrong vig because I doc protected against it. And I protected a mason who then confirmed that role and we kicked off the mafia because of the subsequent sequence.

I really do'nt like the DGB votes MBL sequence. It's very irritating to see DGB like this at this point. But I'm really surprised at how early Ether throws out the possibility of Supersaint after the soft-claim. I'm dismayed that was her first possibility. What I got from DGB wasn't that if she's lynched that her role was better to see, I got that DGB was just being resistant to claim and was throwing out the possibility that we should tempt her and just plain lynch her because she's not giving clues. There's a specific function of that communication that has more to do with her defense than her actual role, in my opinion.

I question OMGL continuing the thought that there's a supersaint in DGB. I highly doubt that DGB is even suggesting supersaint and I'm not sure Ether was either, but OMGL is continuing it. I want the supersaint discussion to stop, and I hope it does by the time I finish this readthrough because this is too long a post. Nonetheless, I do agree that DGB should claim.

Also, elias? what? the? where.

People on my radar: OMGL, DGB, Ether, Sarc, bluesoul, e_k
Off radar: IH, Patrick, chamber, MBL
No idea: Elias

[Sarcastro]

Hey, everyone. Sorry for not posting much, I was on vacation and had far worse access than expected. I'm back now and I'll catch up as soon as I can.

[bluesoul]

I really do'nt like the DGB votes MBL sequence. It's very irritating to see DGB like this at this point. But I'm really surprised at how early Ether throws out the possibility of Supersaint after the soft-claim. I'm dismayed that was her first possibility. What I got from DGB wasn't that if she's lynched that her role was better to see, I got that DGB was just being resistant to claim and was throwing out the possibility that we should tempt her and just plain lynch her because she's not giving clues. There's a specific function of that communication that has more to do with her defense than her actual role, in my opinion.

I question OMGL continuing the thought that there's a supersaint in DGB. I highly doubt that DGB is even suggesting supersaint and I'm not sure Ether was either, but OMGL is continuing it. I want the supersaint discussion to stop, and I hope it does by the time I finish this readthrough because this is too long a post. Nonetheless, I do agree that DGB should claim.

I agree with pretty much everything here. Thanks for such a thoughtful first post, PJ's activity was already good but hopefully that's the kick in the pants the town needed.

I hadn't really commented on it prior, but I know Shea pretty well; I absolutely would not put a role like Super-Saint past him, but it also wouldn't be my first choice for a possible DGB role either. "Lynch me and find out" in this context sounds more like lazy wagonee (or trapped scum that doesn't want to tip the scum's hand) than an attempt to bait a SS kill. This is day one, if DGB did in fact have a role along those lines, or claimed to have a role along those lines, then the town needs to be aware of that to set up the free kill. This isn't some motley crew, it's an Invitational game; no scum is going to hop on and hammer that blindly, especially not now that that's been said.

I realize that doesn't make a ton of sense, and that has a lot to do with DGB's continued refusal to claim. At this point I don't expect to see a miraculous turnabout and claim so I'll assume DGB is playing in an antitown fashion and thus will make as good a day one lynch as anything we've got.

I would like to clear up two things regarding pablito's 367 and some comments he made about me. They're both in the same paragraph, which I'll split up.

[quote="pablito, 367]I'm not sure where bluesoul is going with his attack on DGB. He really sounds like he's jumping on a wagon. I should also note at this point that I've been drinking, so the quality will begin to deteriorate. ... Nonetheless, we should also point to how bluesoul tries to deflect onto DGB. [/quote]

You should note I've been on DGB consistently all game, my vote on MBL was a demonstration of discontent and nothing else; if you think I really thought I had him trapped with his percentages post...well, that's not right lol. I think DGB has been the scummiest-seeming player all game, if you're going to call it jumping on a wagon I think that's overlooking the fact that I've been giving explanations for it for most of the game.

Actually I'm gonna split this last piece a little further.

[quote="pablito, 367]I don't know why bluesoul nor MBL are trying to get into the math. At this point, I'm going to say that bluesoul is at least becoming even more consistent. But really. Why even bother go that route? However, I have to really admire that bluesoul managed to agree to stop talking about it and entice MBL to move onward.[/quote]

MBL was more or less running me up, the whole hard case and then percentage counter-attack really were quite odd and if I weren't already on the defense I probably wouldn't have made an issue of it but there was a lot of nonsense flying about so a little more nonsense from my end managed to quiet it down. MBL can of course speak for himself but I think that we both realized our points had been made and we were prepared to agree to disagree on it, there was nothing further to really add and all it was serving to do is make us pissed off at each other. That said...

[quote="pablito, 367]But what really gets me is that MBL moves forward quickly with significant questioning whereas bluesoul mostly just wants to be done with being on the defense. Could be scummy on bluesoul's part, could be actual frustration. I think it could easily be frustration.[/quote]

I really did just want to be done with it; frustration's a pretty accurate term. I caught a lot of flak really early on in the game and I was tired of being on the defense, MBL's case was sort of running out so rather than leave it open for someone else to call out some minor point that was going to bring it back up for another incessant round, combined with the fact that I honestly did misunderstand MBL's later explanation of his percentages (meant to temporarily clear me rather than run me up by a bogus percentage), we simply agreed to stop talking about it. I've never done that before, I was honestly glad to see MBL be receptive to it. Really, at that point, all you're going to find is a poorly thought-out phrase or a few words spoken in heat to run someone up on, and that's really a bad way to find scum.

I think that's all I have for right now, I think I'm gonna re-read these last two pages as there's been some posting I haven't really understood lately.

[bluesoul]

Ugh that's what I get for not proofreading. You see what's going on. Goodnight folks.

[Ether]

5 DrippingGoofball (petroleumjelly, bluesoul, Sarcastro, Ether, Patrick)
2 elvis_knits (chamber, MrBuddyLee)
1 MrBuddyLee (DrippingGoofball)
1 Patrick (elvis_knits)
1 Sarcastro (OhGodMyLife)

2 Unvote (Elias_the_thief, IH)

12 alive; 7 to lynch.

95% certainty Ether and e_k aren't partners--don't think she'd seek approval from a scumpartner
95% certainty e_k and PJ aren't partners--don't think she'd draw so much attention to her displeasure being connected to a scumpartner
85% certainty e_k and chamber aren't partners--gut.

You haven't calculated the possibilty that I am an SK.

...uh.

unless she's scum and then I'll look like a dirty rotten scoundrel tomorrow.

I'd actually be more paranoid of you if DGB dies as town--though even then I'd rather start on Elvis.

Ether: Did you get anything from Thespival about DGB, or was that covered by "DGB's wagon is giving me a bad feeling"?

Ether, you say that DGB's wagon gives you a bad feeling. But you're still voting for her--that smells not so fresh.

DGB had a "go on, lynch me, bitches" thing going on in Thespival (she was a vanilla townie and didn't do a "you'll understand when you see my role"), which made me feel somewhat better about her appeals here--though I still think they boil down to "you'll understand when you see my role." PJ never actually invoked her scumhunting in that game as a reason to switch over, though he could have still been thinking about it; still, it bothers me. I don't like Elvis. I'm not really wild about Sarc's switch, though I've seen him coast like this as town.

Do you really think we're at the emergency "must lynch now" point?

Yes. (I'm aware that I'm not posting consistently with this impression, and agree that Patrick's observation in 361 is completely valid.) I'm not arguing that the lynch need necessarily be DGB, but with her lurking and refusing to claim, that's what I favor right now.

And would you rather lynch a townie than no-lynch? Cause I rarely would.

I could totally see DGB making the statement in 316 as a supersaint, and as I've said, I wouldn't want to lynch her if she claimed that (if she's scum, there's still no harm waiting on a supersaint claim). But that's the only town explanation I

do

see. It could be a gambit as scum, and I don't like the way she hasn't posted since my statement.

My good sir Pablito, I must assure you that I am

always

serious. I am (fine, nowadays, at least) serious on page 1, and I was serious when I brought up the supersaint hypothesis. I don't understand your own thoughts on this matter at all, actually.

[elvis_knits]

95% certainty Ether and e_k aren't partners--don't think she'd seek approval from a scumpartner
95% certainty e_k and PJ aren't partners--don't think she'd draw so much attention to her displeasure being connected to a scumpartner
85% certainty e_k and chamber aren't partners--gut.

You haven't calculated the possibilty that I am an SK.

...uh.

My comment demonstrates the strangeness of MBL's level of certainty that I am scum, but only contemplates that I am mafia. Why doesn't he contemplate that I am an SK? Why is he so absorbed in finding my scum buddies before he actually finds out if I am scum or not?

Also, I find it weird that MBL seems to be giving DGB every possible avenue to make herself seem less scummy. What has convinced him that she is town and deserves this type of babying?

[pablito]

Ether, that's like shaving a goat's udder after it can no longer withstand the hail. I haven't said you have been not serious at all either. Furthermore, I don't remember saying anything about Ether's seriosity when discussing bringing up the supersaint.

bluesoul, whether you have been consistent with attacking DGB or not, the context of you first voting DGB will always be stored for posterity. It's only something to note and I can't forget it.

With DGB's "lynch role threat", I can see the possibility that she's just a vanilla and is making the statement because she wants us to see who actually did bother to put her on a power role before she was lynched. It's such a blanket statement and I see it more as DGB-ness than something to read further. I think there is some possibility she has a power role, but if she is hinting at it, she might as well plain flat say it, because I prefer to read that she has not even mentioned much about her role at all.

[bluesoul]

bluesoul, whether you have been consistent with attacking DGB or not, the context of you first voting DGB will always be stored for posterity. It's only something to note and I can't forget it.

I've gotta be misreading this. You can't forget...my random vote? Okay.