New Rule: Replace the Word "Lynch" in Games

[Aristophanes]

It looks like I'm late yo the party, but this is a great move on the part of our moderation staff and I support it wholeheartedly!

I'm sure the occasional slip will happen, but this is a move in the right direction for all involved.

[Aristophanes]

Legit though

I might actually not play mafia on the site anymore for no other reason than I don't think there's another word that can be substituted for it that flows as well as lynch does. I also always associated the word more with the Salem witch trials since that is the type of dynamic that most closely fits with how the game itself works.

I mean I also think this type of change is likely going to end up meaningless in the long run too (and unpopular opinion, ingame stuff that clearly doesn't have that intent being considered racist is very ??? to me in general) but I don't really want to get into a long diatribe about this either so I'll just take whatever criticism I get for this and leave it

This is an extremely bad take and you should reconsider your stance on the matter.

"I might quit mafia because they took away my word" is an extremely privileged, possibly racist stance. It doesn't matter if the word is used here with racist intentions, it carries a very charged meaning and therefore has racial undertones. We are limiting these and distancing ourselves from them as they are not something this site wants to associate with.

Like, I'm not calling you a racist here. Don't get me wrong. But I think anyone fighting against this change, including threatening to quit mafia over it, really needs to take a step back. And if they come back after some thought and consideration and still think they deserve to have the use of this word for whatever reason, then they can kindly fuck off. I don't want to play games with people who would threaten to quit over this.

Like I'd bet you were on team "Leave Aunt Jemima Alone! I need my slavery syrup!" weren't you.

The world is progressing positively away from vestigial archetypes which may inadvertently or purposely promote racism. Get on board or get out.

[Aristophanes]

I'll read this whole thread eventually, that post just stood out to me.

But for real, this is a good change. If you don't think so, I implore you to educate yourself.

[Aristophanes]

I'm curious, who here is actually offended by the word "lynch"?

I'm curious, does this actually matter?

The term has highly racist undertones. Whether it directly offends me or not, it surely has that effect for some, and may even drive people away from the site. We are better off to leave it as a part of our history and walk away than to display it proudly.

Does a confederate flag hurt people? Technically no. If you were in a bar with a confederate flag up and asked if it offended anyone, you'd probably get a resounding "no" because those it offended would likely have left, or never come in the first place, as it is unwelcoming and potentially threatening.

If you remove the words and symbols which are active reminders of oppression, people will generally feel more invited.

So why are people fighting this?

[Aristophanes]

I'm curious, who here is actually offended by the word "lynch"?

People highly offended by the word would have self-selected not being here already.

^^^

So much this!
Thank you chamber

[Aristophanes]

The only reasonable replacement here is

yeeted

yote

Okay this I might legit adopt!

Fantastic contribution!

[Aristophanes]

Sorry.

I'll play nice.

[Aristophanes]

I'm curious, does this actually matter?

kinda? like its "our" site for "us". In my mind, it would make

A LOT

more sense if the reason for the rule change is that the majority of the players actually didn't want the word lynch to be used. I also think that most players know that when we say "we want to lynch you" or "X has been lynched d1" our intent isn't racist. And I was just curious so eh?

So who are people fighting this?

no one is? And if anyone was it's not gonna have any (or very little effect) I mean, I guess you could argue that Alysaa and ABR are fighting it but mods are gonna do what mods are gonna want.

That was supposed to be "why are people fighting this?" It wasn't intended to call out specific users, merely to highlight the absurdity of arguments for the word.

And sure, we may not be offended personally by it. But it has a high potential for that.

Like, maybe we can just put it in a content warning spoiler every time we mention it. We do that for suicide. We do that for eating disorders. We do that for so many things. If we are to keep a term like "lynching" on the site, it should exist withing a labeled CW box and be used in proper discussion. Just because you are not offended does not mean it is not offensive!

This is our site, and I want it to be an inclusive place where we can play a fun game (or play mafia) and not have the potential of alienation of users, new or old. I respect that this word has charged roots and should be left in the rearview. I think it is at worst a neutral change and at best will create a more positive and welcoming site environment. And I want that.

I could continue this and say that some people use the N word without any thought of the charged racial basis it holds. Is that right? Even if it doesn't offend the person talking?

Probably a better example is the R word. It is thrown around in circles liberally. But should it be?

Is it okay to say racist jokes as long as you don't hold hatred for the people you are telling them about?

Just because you don't hold a prejudice doesn't mean your words don't carry it with them.

[Aristophanes]

To lynch is for a mob to kill someone, especially by hanging, for an alleged offense, with or without a legal trial.

It has never had any racial connotations.

It does have a historically rasict connotation though. It has held one for a long time. You are wrong.
(Emphasis mine)

I understand that things are getting heated here, but just because somebody has a different opinion, it does not make them a racist.

This is true and it is why I am trying to have a good faith discussion. I hope it is clear.

[Aristophanes]

just because somebody has a different opinion, it does not make them a racist.

Just because someone has a diffrent opinion does not make them racist, nor does anyone want a racist here

Having racist opinions makes someone a racist.

Just because somebody has a different opinion, it does not make them a racist. If you think somebody is being racist intentionally, that is a different matter. I'm not seeing that from what I've seen so far.

This is sonewhat misguided. Just because the rasicm is not active does not mean it does not exist. Calling it out and educating the person is the only way to change this. Ignorance is not an excuse. And willful continuation after being confronted, called out, educated, etc is then actively racist.

[Aristophanes]

Also its just a game guys.

Exactly.

So let's make it more accepting by removing a term that is known to be problematically charged!

[Aristophanes]

Jam, for definite.

but that's not who Scott was talking about.

not have the potential of alienation of users

but by removing the term "lynch" we've already lost ABR and potentially Alyssa.

Good.

As I said, if people want to leave over this, they can literally fuck right off.

[Aristophanes]

Yes it is. The opinion is that Lynching has nothing to do with race which is racist as Lynching has everything to do with race.

Do not confuse the United States with the entire world.

maybe don't claim there is literally no history of the word being racially charged when it obviously is?

Like seriously, your claim is incorrect, you have been shown it is incorrect. Yet you continue to argue it.

I guess you can fuck off too.

[Aristophanes]

you guys do know that lynchings happened long before the trans-Atlantic slave trade. I mean, yes, the word lynch does carry so many racist undertones b/c of how the KKK used lynches for black ppl but I just wanted to point out that it is has been a punishment for ONLY blacks is absolutely false.

I don't believe this is the claim being made here.

The term has racist undertones and therefore should not be used.

Easy.

[Aristophanes]

Yeah this Fred guy is just another low effort idiot troll.

This is considered trolling?

I mean, it seems like you're going out of your way to not understand. What do you think?

Ninja'd
Ya that works too

[Aristophanes]

Yeah this Fred guy is just another low effort idiot troll.

This is considered trolling?

I mean, it seems like you're going out of your way to not understand. What do you think?

Ninja'd
Ya that works too

I wasn't. I've understood.

In that case, my apologies, and thanks for your openness! I didn't mean to prejudge your posting.

[Aristophanes]

Because lots of black people died by racists white people.

Nobody here is arguing against saying 'died' though.

You're so right. In fact, why don't we still just keep calling Germans Nazi. Words are meaningless anyways right?

This??

Where DeathNote is being obviously sarcastic in order to prove a point?

Yeah. What a jerk that guy is. How dare he.

Like wtf do you mean Dunn?

And what, might I ask, is your problem with "Died"? We've let you know our issues with "Lynch" so please, respond in kind.

[Aristophanes]

Expecting a lot of bans from this post TBH.

I don't even care, I'll eat one happily for this.

I have never had a blacklist of users I won't play with.
I now have a growing list.

[Aristophanes]

Kind of seems like people are imputing opinions to Nero that he hasn't expressed, because he had a quibble regarding the details of the word's historical origin

It's almost like he shouldn't have had a quibble like that in the first place

yes, lest just erase history.

Nobody is trying to erase history

you dumb twat

!
P.edit - sorry

What we are trying to do is highlight the racial implications of the word "lynch", which for some unknown reason you have decided to pedantically fight us on!

So fuck off with your holier than thou history lesson and get with the program!

[Aristophanes]

Itt TSE has good takes

I take it back.

[Aristophanes]

Itt TSE has good takes

I missed where he said being an edgelord negates racism or whatever. His other posts were alright.

Fuck

I take it back.

[Aristophanes]

Itt TSE has good takes

I missed where he said being an edgelord negates racism or whatever. His other posts were alright.

Fuck

I take it back.

WDYM?
Racism is when you discriminate someone based on their race, nationality or anything else of the similarity.
That’s it!
People shouldn't be racist and people shouldn’t over react to something that doesn’t need to be reacted to.

So "lynch" is not a racist term despite it's historical usage targeting black people specifically in America?

Who is overreacting here?
The people saying we should be able to use the term or those saying we shouldn't?

[Aristophanes]

So fuck off with your holier than thou history lesson and get with the program!

??????

I'm correcting Lycan. It's my right to do so.

so what exactly does arguing about the "real" linguistic origins of a word matter?

it matters to me when people lie and/or are misinformed.

It is.

I'm just saying, like, there's a time and a place.

Read the room.

[Aristophanes]

My point is that history happened and what happened in the past happened.
We are in control of our future we will decide the fate of the future we together will make the world a better place.

No, actually, this is my fucking point!

History happened, and now "Lynch" isn't appropriate.

We are in control of our future, and I want to see a future where racially charged jargon is no longer prevalent and rasicm is abolished.

Full stop.

You arguing some dumb bullshit about kitchen sinks doesn't change the fact that the word "lynch" is a racially charged word. The left winged social justice warriors police brigade isn't breaking down your door to take words away, and you are the one fucking overreacting here is you are going to argue some bullshit strawman that "kitchen sinks could be rasict too."

Well guess what, if I had to change the name of the room where I cook to the foodatorium because it turned out "kitchens" became racially charges or inappropriate in some way, then I fucking would! So grow up and have a real conversation with me that is based on facts or go away, you goalpost-moving edgelord!

[Aristophanes]

No one should be upset that we lost ABR and (i'm assuming) Alisae. They have made their points perfectly clear. And you shouldn't even worry about the intent behind the word. It's a racist word. We as a website need to stop using it. Everyone. Not just mods.

Alyssa the Lamb fyi, not Alisae

[Aristophanes]

Enter was extremely mad, that's for sure.

Reck, have I told you recently that you are a fucking hero?

[Aristophanes]

Hey, US people, go to bed and get some sleep.

Too bad I'm in Canada!

[Aristophanes]

Hey, US people, go to bed and get some sleep.

Too bad I'm in Canada!

basically the same

I would argue against that for fun but this has bree draining.

So...

[Aristophanes]

It was a bit intense.

I lied to Nexus and didn't go to bed. Reading the thread from start to finish (why can I never do this in game??)

I can't believe some of what I'm reading.

[Aristophanes]

From setup design, it would be very useful to have defined standard. If someone receives in PM "Once you are eliminated, you may pick a person to roleblock them" they might be confused what elimination is. Thanks to standardization we can avoid misinterpretations, which have negative impact on games.

Precisely.
Casually removing an deeply ingrained word and then half-assedly suggesting people can maybe use: "eliminate" or whatever they feel like is going to generate a lot of confusion and misunderstanding throughout the site in many games. Which should really have been a higher priority for the moderation team to consider.
Rather than creating a wild texas we need a PROPOSED STANDARD new replacement word that doesn't SUCK.

*drops mic*

Nothing appears to behalf-assed or casual about this move.

The word "eliminate" is a new standard for Normals and Newbies. Probably Opens too for the most part as they often rely on the standard Wiki definitions and thus lean on their terminology a tad more.

Running anything Themed, you have free reign to use whatever words are not mentioned here off-limits.

You're not likely to change the modding team's choice of the word "Eliminate" as they undoubtedly have been discussing this change for a very long time behind the scenes. This was their solution. Just respect it and move on!

Like, dafuq even was the point of the mic drop at the end of this? You made an average post with overall bad/uninformed takes in it.
I have no clue where you think you dunked on anyone or anything here, but whatever I guess.

[Aristophanes]

You're not likely to change the modding team's choice of the word "Eliminate" as they undoubtedly have been discussing this change for a very long time behind the scenes. This was their solution. Just respect it and move on!

_{teachers pet}

You're not wrong lol

[Aristophanes]

I can’t really stop that. It’s the history and Understandment they were brought into.

It's a sad thing history sometimes can take really terrible turns hence always following the wave is bad.

And what, might I ask, is the terrible turn that removing the word "lynch" is taking us upon?

You have been resistant to this wave and I don't understand why.

[Aristophanes]

No one lynches people currently now adays.
LMAO.
This ain’t fuckin 1900’s or 1800’s.
This is 2000’s.

This is factually incorrect my man.

Please listen to me, I really want to help you.
But you are definitely either uneducated or misguided on this matter and it needs to be rectified.

Literally google "Lynches in America 2020" and read up, then get back to us.

[Aristophanes]

I can’t really stop that. It’s the history and Understandment they were brought into.

It's a sad thing history sometimes can take really terrible turns hence always following the wave is bad.

And what, might I ask, is the terrible turn that removing the word "lynch" is taking us upon?

You have been resistant to this wave and I don't understand why.

Not necessarily terrible, but the fact people seem to just passively agree to everything is very concerning.

> 43 pages in 22 hours
> passively agreeing

???

[Aristophanes]

I can’t really stop that. It’s the history and Understandment they were brought into.

It's a sad thing history sometimes can take really terrible turns hence always following the wave is bad.

And what, might I ask, is the terrible turn that removing the word "lynch" is taking us upon?

You have been resistant to this wave and I don't understand why.

Not necessarily terrible, but the fact people seem to just passively agree to everything is very concerning.

As a proper response however, I don't think people are passively agreeing. People have been extremely vocal on both sides. I have noted you kind of cheerleading the "lynching isn't racist" arguments from the sidelines and I want to know what you think gives them the winning argument here.

Fmpov, and I think from the reasonable and educated (at least on the matter) point of view, the removal of a term with such racially charged undertones, and sometimes explicit overtones, is a huge net positive for the site and one which is dearly needed.

So what is the negative to this?

[Aristophanes]

Why are you still opposed again?

It is not the most practical and exceptions should be made for setups involving a setting that uses lynch for non-racial reasons.

So if a Buddhist dons a swastika avatar is that okay?

They have it up for non-Nazi reasons!

[Aristophanes]

Despite me not caring about the “lynch” term.
I thought I’d share this in case other stuff is brought up.
Now Yes certain events in history were bad and very disgusting.
But it has nothing to do with a term as a whole.
Just because a term can refer to something that may appear to be racist doesn’t mean it is.

Ever heard the saying “Life is what you make it”.
That applies here.
Yes the word is known for being bad in the past but that just means someone can take initiative and change the word from being bad and degrading to something good and pure. (Or at least not as bad as people make it look like it is)
People can change so why can’t terms or things change?
Spoiler Alert - Anything and Anyone can Change.

Okay then, call someone the N word.
Right now.
Make it positive.

No?
Okay then.
Because this is the same argument.

Words can change in meaning. That's why

"Fag"

and "lynch" and many others are not appropriate in our current society.
Give it time to become uncharged and then maybe the word can be reclaimed.
But while it holds an actively negative connotation, that will not change.

[Aristophanes]

Why are you still opposed again?

It is not the most practical and exceptions should be made for setups involving a setting that uses lynch for non-racial reasons.

So if a Buddhist dons a swastika avatar is that okay?

They have it up for non-Nazi reasons!

Aren't the Buddhist and nazi swastikas pretty different?

If you mean that they often carry varied ornamentation.

Would you wear a Buddhist swastika as an avi?
Like not asking religiously or anything. But if you had one and liked the style, in theory, would you wear it?

[Aristophanes]

Btw it's more of a Hindu thing and just got absorbed into Buddhism as kind of an afterthought like a lot of other Hindu-flavored content in Buddhism that isn't actually germane to Buddhism's own original content, because Buddhism developed in a Vedic Hindu milieu.

My apologies, I don't look into the symbol regularly. I should mention that this was not meant to target those religions which use that symbol.