Newbie 626 - Completed Successfully (dependent on town POV)

[neko2086]

I only said that his actions were very anti-town.

Ah, you're right. Makes more sense now.

What do you think of Indigo?

[MeMe]

Vote Count

:

Syzygy

(3):

New Coldness, Freckles, neko2086

Indigo Heron

(1):

Syzygy

not voting

(3):

Amor, Indigo Heron, Mispeled

Still need four.

[Indigo Heron]

Just to tell you guys that I've been very busy this past few days, and I'll be free by tomorrow. Sorry in advance. This is a rare period for me to use the Internet.

[New Coldness]

This whole thing against me isn't true. Not in the least. First of all, my vote for Grimmy was not a hammer at all.

This is correct. There WAS no hammer vote. Grimmy was clearly lynched by deadline, not hammer. And the final, tie-breaking vote against Grimmy was cast by ML, not Freckles. And then everyone who was voting for neko switched to ML, but it wasn't enough to save Grimmy.

Second, just because his first post is the only one you bothered to quote, does not mean it was the only one that dealt with me. Get your facts straight before you mount a campaign.

Also correct. I counted a few posts dealing with Freckles, including two contentless "no girls on teh interwebs" posts, a PBPA of neko that mentioned her,, and a scumlist that outlined his thoughts on everyone, including Freckles.

IGMEOY: Mispeled

[Mispeled]

This whole thing against me isn't true. Not in the least. First of all, my vote for Grimmy was not a hammer at all.

This is correct. There WAS no hammer vote. Grimmy was clearly lynched by deadline, not hammer. And the final, tie-breaking vote against Grimmy was cast by ML, not Freckles. And then everyone who was voting for neko switched to ML, but it wasn't enough to save Grimmy.

Well, this was a screw-up on my part. Freckles' vote was actually the first on Grimmy, and well before the deadline. I'd gotten events mixed up in my head and thought that his vote happened later on, and didn't go back to double check this.

Second, just because his first post is the only one you bothered to quote, does not mean it was the only one that dealt with me. Get your facts straight before you mount a campaign.

Also correct. I counted a few posts dealing with Freckles, including two contentless "no girls on teh interwebs" posts, a PBPA of neko that mentioned her,, and a scumlist that outlined his thoughts on everyone, including Freckles.

Well, I reread Grimmy's posts just now and somehow I'd completely missed #45. While my point was exaggerated a bit, I think it still stands - Freckles's defense (that Grimmy was pushing the point of her L-2 vote) is weak. (While it's probable that I've missed another post) besides the post I quoted and #45, no other post directly attacks her or anything like that. The PBPA makes reference to Freckles, but not pushing any kind of case against her.


Freckles: I'm not trying to mount a campaign against you at all. I'm just trying to move discussion beyond Sygyzy's stunt, as prompted by neko.



As for Indigo Heron, his case on ML was certainly WIFOM. Really, I'm more concerned with his "ML created chaos, and he could be mafia, and mafia would want to confuse the town, so I'm suspicious of him" than his analysis of Kang's posts.

Honestly, I still don't see what was wrong with this post:

I was also trying to see which of the scum would follow in my footsteps by adding votes to the vote count for Mamaluigi, bringing him closer (but not enough to actally do so) to lynch him.

Baiting scum onto a wagon is a good way to bring them into the open. Nothing inherently wrong with that explanation IMO, and it doesn't seem like backpedaling to me. Frankly, rereading, I find Syzygy's very strong reaction scummy.

[neko2086]

If he was trying to bait scum, then ok, there certainly wouldn't be anything wrong with that post. But look back at his posts and you can clearly see that that is not what he was trying to do. Look at posts 175 and 177. I guess it's possible that he had some sort of master plan, but it looks to me like he was clearly creating a case against ML, even defending his analysis of Kang's posts.

If he was trying to bait scum, he was going through some pretty risky (WIFOM, as you agree, mispeled) territory to do so. If that was his plan all along, he put himself at much more risk than the scum he could possibly have 'baited,' and I'm still not sure how exactly that was supposed to work...

I don't know. I guess those posts are open to interpretation, so I'd like to hear whether others believe his "I was trying to bait scum" bit. Maybe I'm in a minority on this one, but I don't.

[Freckles]

In my humble, but godlike opinion, baiting scum is risky, but if you know what you're doing (which I wouldn't) I don't see why it couldn't work out. The downside though, is that you then have to convince others that that's what you were doing, hence the risk factor.


As for believing him or not...I'm on the fence, leaning a bit towards not.

[Indigo Heron]

Baiting scum onto a wagon is a good way to bring them into the open. Nothing inherently wrong with that explanation IMO, and it doesn't seem like backpedaling to me. Frankly, rereading, I find Syzygy's very strong reaction scummy.

I was thinking along those lines as well.

Now, I was quite sure that someone would bite my gambit - the WIFOM-y nature of the post was to trigger people to respond in a way that I wanted them to; I was running possible scenarios of it in my head.

Even though the best-case scenario didn't turn out, I still got a response to it. Syz responded negatively to my gambit, which at the time seemed highly improbable for him to be a scum, since he was a replacement, and he had some room to defend the actions of his predecessor. He had soft-claimed to be a doctor. However, his lying and our current situation do not really permit for liars to be in the game enough to contribute. He also seems to be getting more and more desperate of the situation he is in now, shooting of IGMEOYs as if they were something easily dispensed with and such.

Now, I need a little more time to confirm the vote, so I'm thinking it over for a few hours (or 24 hours at most).

[New Coldness]

Dude, craplogic makes you look scummy. If you go toe-to-toe with someone

for agreeing with you

, you'll have a hell of a time lynching them even if they are scum. Gambit or no gambit, it's a bad idea.

And Syz's desperation is a null-tell. If he's scum, then of course he's trying to save his own hide. If he's town, then he knows that any given player out there is more likely to be scum than he is, so he'd be trying to keep a townie from getting lynched.

[Indigo Heron]

Yeah, I've noticed that. I'll weed it out of my playstyle (assuming I have one - I'm still searching).

[Mispeled]

If he was trying to bait scum, then ok, there certainly wouldn't be anything wrong with that post. But look back at his posts and you can clearly see that that is not what he was trying to do. Look at posts 175 and 177. I guess it's possible that he had some sort of master plan, but it looks to me like he was clearly creating a case against ML, even defending his analysis of Kang's posts.

Meh. I really don't know. I'm seeing him intentionally creating a very "easy" bandwagon (albeit with a weak case). I can see that as legitimate scumbaiting.

[Indigo Heron]

Okay. Practically everyone has said the reasons for voting Syz to be lynched. However, the straw that broke the camel's back was the fact that you did not even bother to defend yourself. You were at L-1 for several days, and not one reply regarding Syz has been mentioned. This giving up on the game is what convinced me to vote for you.

vote: Syz

[MeMe]

End of Day Count

:

Syzygy

(4):

New Coldness, Freckles, neko2086, Indigo Heron

Indigo Heron

(1):

Syzygy

not voting

(2):

Amor, Mispeled

Wave buh-bye to

Syzygy

the

Townie

.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Night choices are due by

1 a.m. EST Tuesday, July 29

(about 48 hours from this post).

[MeMe]

Everyone who's alive, take a step forward! Not so fast there,

New Coldness

....

He was your

Cop

.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Five alive = three to lynch. Good luck out there!

[Amor]

Well that was not fun.

Going to look over NC's posts, see if there's any breadcrumbs to be found there.

[neko2086]

Looking over NC, I'm not sure if there's anything to be made of his being cop. It's unclear whether an investigation was made night 1, as occult was MIA and NC replaced at the start of day2. I'm not sure if I really want to conjecture anything. At any rate, he threw some suspicion toward IH, mispeled, and Freckles, so if he had a town result on someone, it probably wouldn't have been them. I'd like to think I was investigated based on D1 events, but, bmc (amor) or kang could have been investigated as well.

More later. Need to finish rereading.

[Mispeled]

Quick word to our newbie(s) - we are in Lynch or Lose, meaning if we don't lynch a mafia, we lose. Also, because the round will end instantly if anyone has 3 votes on them, if you cast a vote for another townie, the two mafia could very quickly jump on and hammer that vote in no time.

Now then down to business, IH's hammer is quite scummy in my opinion. I don't like the fact that he hardly waited 24 hours to hammer (at the time, I didn't realize Syzygy was at L-1, so didn't see that bit of IH's post as significant), not giving anyone, Syzygy in particular, a last chance to respond. This is especially bothersome to me because IH's basis for his hammer was Syzygy not defending himself.

[Indigo Heron]

Trying to make a case, are we?

From the time of my post, when was the last time Syz has posted anything in this game? He's had 4 days to post something to defend himself. I also publicly said that I was going to think it over for at most a day - which was something I did. I gave him ample time to read the game and reply accordingly. My conclusion is that he was not bothered about this game anymore.

[Mispeled]

It's irrelevant how much time he had. You make the assumption that "he stopped caring about the game" when for all you know he could have had some sudden LOA come up. Saying you're going to hammer and not give him a chance to defend himself is not good at all, especially when there is other active discussion going on (the discussion about Freckles and then about myself).

[Indigo Heron]

It was his fault that he failed to specify his period of absence. Are you trying to tell me that it's my fault he failed to do so?!

[neko2086]

Are you trying to tell me that it's my fault he failed to do so?!

Are you trying to straw-man mispeled's argument? He's clearly not blaming you for syz's absence. His point is that you dropped the hammer, which ends

all

discussion, and not all the discussion had to do with syz. Mispeled mentioned the discussion on himself and Freckles, but he forgot to mention the discussion on

you

, which conveniently ended with your hammer.

Trying to make a case, are we?

Why wouldn't he? That's what this game is all about. This doesn't seem like a very pro-town reaction to me. I just don't know why town would say something like this when the game is on the line for them.


Freckles, you there?

[Amor]

Okay, just finished rereading.

I don't feel that Indigo Heron hammered too quickly, or that his hammer is scummy. People need to hammer or else games would never go anywhere and we'd spend months arguing in circles because everyone is afraid to vote (this happened in at least one game I've been in on this site). Moreover, I find neko suspicious for pushing this argument when he was one of the people voting for syg and posted while he was at L-1. If you really wanted more discussion, why did you leave him at L-1? To me it seems like you're trying to set up a third and final mislynch.

And now, onto the main part of my post: why Freckles is mafia.

We start in the happy, innocent days of the jokevote phase. Freckles at first doesn't make a vote, and then later makes one using a random number generator. This is minor, but still scummy. I believe td said that the random vote phase isn't really random but arbitrary, and arbitrary votes can potentially have some significance. By not voting and then later using a RNG Freckles denied the town information. Not the best tell, but it was an auspicious start.

Next we have this super-noncomittal post about her suspicions:

I'm looking a little bit at Mama, who for posting as much as she is, really isn't saying a whole lot.

But, I'm not ready to vote yet, I will take another look at things when I'm not so tired.

First she says she suspects Mama, the most suspected person at the time, but waffles a lot on it and doesn't want to put a vote down. And as for the first paragraph: pot, meet kettle. This is scum trying to position themselves to hop on a bandwagon.

And how about this for complete lack of opinions?

I am clumsy, mispeled, you've got that right. I'm also a "she"

*points out that avatar is of self*

As for the OMGUS thing, I was under the impression it was, in fact, empty revenge.

All this, and I'm not one bit closer to knowing for whom to vote

Anyways, Day 1 continues and the terrible Grimmy lynch happens. Looking back it strikes me how little of a solid basis there was for the case. It seemed to revolve around him being defensive, because only scum defend themselves. Because of this I think this lynch was scum-driven. Freckles was the second vote for Grimmy, after neko2086. This tied Grimmy with the other lynch target at the time, who was neko (there's that cat again). This was of course, after public opinion had generally turned against Grimmy, although few people were laying down votes. She also provided no explanation with her vote. Lovely.

After Grimmy gets lynched, Freckles does the classic "Damn you scum":

Kang being nightkilled gives us so little to work with. *shakes fist at scum* And all these replacements are so hard to keep up with

The whole Neko Vs Grimmy, and Grimmy being town looks bad for Neko, but it's too obvious, I think, so I don't think Neko is scum.

I remember thinking at one point that MamaLuigi seemed scummy, but now I can't remember exactly why (dammit!) A re-read is definitely in order.

Where to start? First off the first paragraph is both "omgimtown" and "Look at what I did as scum". And a cheap excuse for not contributing to boot. Then she points out that the people who lead the last mislynch might be scum, but that's too obvious so we should all give neko a break

because he's her buddy.

And then she doesn't even remember why she's supposed to think another player is scummy.

She starts playing the newbie card heavily around this time, and continuing her pattern of posting rarely and expressing opinions even more rarely. She hops on the sygzy wagon and is immediately followed by -- surprise, surprise -- neko.

And now, to take us home, another fine example of Freckles posting but saying nothing at all:

In my humble, but godlike opinion, baiting scum is risky, but if you know what you're doing (which I wouldn't) I don't see why it couldn't work out. The downside though, is that you then have to convince others that that's what you were doing, hence the risk factor.


As for believing him or not...I'm on the fence, leaning a bit towards not.

In addition to any posts I can pull, Freckles has been lurking the whole game, either by just not posting much or by posting opinion-less fluff posts. This is very effective scum strategy because it makes it hard to produce evidence on you, and what you can get will often pale in comparison to a case on a more active player. I can also see a new player lurking while there more experienced partner is in the forefront (perhaps someone whose name rhymes with meko2086?)

At this point I would normally vote, but we are in LyLo, so I'd like to give Freckles a chance to respond and others to comment on events and present their own suspicions.

tl;dr: Freckles is scum and neko is probably her partner.

[neko2086]

Don't misquote me plz, thx.

First paragraph--fairly valid.

terrible Grimmy lynch happens. Looking back it strikes me how little of a solid basis there was for the case. It seemed to revolve around him being defensive, because only scum defend themselves.

You weren't there, so it's very easy for you to say this. Also, it wasn't just about defensiveness. Did you miss the OMGUS? He didn't have any real opinions until I started suspecting him, then he brings a full-fledged case against me (and a really bad one at that). Please tell me, based on D1, whom you would have proposed to lynch, and what case you would have presented that would have been better than mine.

The tone of your post troubles me a bit, especially when you get to

(perhaps someone whose name rhymes with meko2086?)

It's just a little over the top, but, I'm not going to read into it too much right now.

Anyway, I generally agree with your analysis of Freckles. I'm guessing a IH/Freckles pair atm, but feeling more toward IH than Freckles.

[MeMe]

Prodding Freckles

[Amor]

Don't misquote me plz, thx.

Where have I misquoted you?

You weren't there, so it's very easy for you to say this. Also, it wasn't just about defensiveness. Did you miss the OMGUS? He didn't have any real opinions until I started suspecting him, then he brings a full-fledged case against me (and a really bad one at that). Please tell me, based on D1, whom you would have proposed to lynch, and what case you would have presented that would have been better than mine.

Well, he presented a case behind it so I wouldn't really call it OMGUS. I probably would have gone for Freckles or MamaLuigi on Day 1, the first for reasons I've laid out and the second for transparently anti-town play.

The tone of your post troubles me a bit, especially when you get to

(perhaps someone whose name rhymes with meko2086?)

It's just a little over the top, but, I'm not going to read into it too much right now.

I was trying to be humorous.