Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[Ether]

5 DrippingGoofball (petroleumjelly, bluesoul, Sarcastro, Patrick, elvis_knits)
1 bluesoul (DrippingGoofball)
1 Elias_the_thief (MrBuddyLee)
1 elvis_knits (chamber)
1 Sarcastro (OhGodMyLife)

3 Unvote (Elias_the_thief, Ether, IH)

12 alive; 7 to lynch.

Deadline starts doing weird stuff on Tuesday, July 29th at some time (Eastern).

Patrick asked me something about my questions to OGML a week ago. With PJ it was less a matter of scumminess than a matter of woah-PJ-did-something-weird-I-can't-just-not-ask, but with OGML, it felt opportunistic and his responses implied that he wasn't actually trying to read and check up on me. (And his inactivity last week obviously doesn't help; it's not like he hasn't been posting elsewhere. I continue to dislike him and Elvis, whom Sarc should

still

comment on.)

DGB: Bluesoul's 30% spat with MBL couldn't possibly be real. Contrived and planned.
Bluesoul: So you're saying we decided to 30% ourselves pregame?
Sarc: There was talking pregame?

(Later explained in 224 as a speculation tangent. Below point still stands.)

I, uh, totally see what DGB was getting at on that one. (Having said that--I was thinking MBLtown at that point between his PJhate and me sheeping on people, and think it more strongly now between his doing stuff and me sheeping on people.) Bluesoul's defense was a strawman that didn't get at the spirit of her words at all, and Sarc's question only tossed that further off-course.

But to be fair, Ether forced that by asking the loaded question of "DGB, what are your thoughts on Bluesoul, and MBL's interactions with him?" So I think Ether is guilty of drawing connections too, and perhaps in a more underhanded way, because she's prompting people to re-affirm any mentions of connection.

DGB questioned MBL about FoSing Bluesoul--the person she was voting for--which is why I wanted the clarification.

I mentioned DGB in passing twice up there, and am aware that she is the leading wagon. Eh.

She should claim,

I guess, but this is one of those things I wouldn't join outside of a deadline but can't be bothered to fight. Deadline in mind, assuming the votecount stays like this, I'll hop on around...let's say late Thursday, which would be about 60-72 hours after the deadline kicks in.

Speaking of which, what are people's thoughts on the deadline versus hypothetically having to hold out for posts from IH and OGML? (I'm assuming getting Elias on weekdays is a lost cause anyway. Do we know how long he's at summer camp?) I'm waffling between thinking, "Ooh, activity-based" and worrying that it couldn't possibly be more than a week.

I agree with Patrick's suspicions somewhat. I was expecting to get a much cleaner read off him, but he seems a bit on his heels and possibly a tad nervous. I wouldn't lynch him today. I think he will be a rich reservoir of alignment info in the days to come.

MBL, while reading your case on Patrick, I was exclaiming, in my head, "brilliant!" "OMG!" "I could never catch so many tells in a million years! What a stellar string!"

Patrick, are you scum?

[...]

Explain.

He's town.

Silly MBL and DGB and PJ and elvis_knits.

top of the page, bitches, official votecount.

Bluesoul: 1

(DGB)

DGB: 5

(PJ, Bluesoul, sarc, patrick, elvis_knits)

Elvis_Knits 1

(chamber)

sarc: 1

(OGML)

Elias: 1

(MBL)

not voting: 2

(Elias, IH)

People no one cares about who are still not voting: 1

(ether)

In addition I have a couple points of clarification on the deadline rule.

1) The initial three weeks is not a deadline, but rather a limit on when the mod can impose a deadline.

2) You will not know THAT a deadline has been imposed, in addition to the not knowing when which the rule actually states. I thought this was apparent from the spirit of the rule, but I guess not.

3) The deadline is not based on mod whimsy, there is a specific activity formula in the rules which will trigger a deadline.

Thanks,
Shea.

[bluesoul]

If DGB turns up scum I'm going after Ether. The post above is setting off all kinds of alarm bells.

[Ether]

Meh.

I'm not trying to protect her, and I'm obviously not gonna look for credit if she's scum. DGB's reputation scares me.

[DrippingGoofball]

Who has considered the possibility that I have a power role?

[chamber]

Who has considered the possibility that I have a power role?

This post is scummy. One of the only scummy posts Ive seen you make but scummy non the less. Its basically a scare tactic to stop others from attacking you without actually saying anything.

[Patrick]

Hey DGB, it's rude to ignore people. I asked you questions in both Post 242 and Post 267. Please respond. I should probably explain that I found Post 239 fairly opportunistic, and I don't see how it's a townie thought process. It strongly implies you'd have voted me if MBL had, and didn't because he didn't. The follow up soon after which says you only find bluesoul even slightly suspicious baffles me more than I find it scummy, but I want to understand the thought process there too.

2.) Patrick, how often do you think points against you are something other than nitpicks?

More often than nitpicks, I just see them as plain stupid. But to answer what I think you're asking, it's probably fairly rare. What's the purpose of this question?

Speaking of which, what are people's thoughts on the deadline versus hypothetically having to hold out for posts from IH and OGML? (I'm assuming getting Elias on weekdays is a lost cause anyway. Do we know how long he's at summer camp?) I'm waffling between thinking, "Ooh, activity-based" and worrying that it couldn't possibly be more than a week.

The rules say only that a deadline might be imposed after 3 weeks, and it can be avoided by staying active. All we have to do is simply (heh) stay active. I definitely favour the day going on a while longer, because I have very little read on several of players. And Elias missed posting at the weekend, again.

Elvis, what do you think of PJ?

[DrippingGoofball]

Please respond. I should probably explain that I found Post 239 fairly opportunistic, and I don't see how it's a townie thought process. It strongly implies you'd have voted me if MBL had, and didn't because he didn't. The follow up soon after which says you only find bluesoul even slightly suspicious baffles me more than I find it scummy, but I want to understand the thought process there too.

I'm getting bored here. Anything I do or don't do is interpreted as scummy. It's getting old.

I made a mental note to watch the two of you for evidence of bus'ing.

I'm still not sure what to make of that incident. MBL makes a case against you, does not vote you, I found THAT to be scummy. So no, I wasn't going to vote for you. That didn't jump at you as being scummy??? And then you react by claiming this was not a case against you at all. I've never seen that kind of behavior and I don't know if you're townies caught in your own pointless verbiage, or if you're scumbags trying to set up false trails for later confusion.

[DrippingGoofball]

And what's OPPORTUNISTIC about it, Patrick???

I didn't vote. I didn't trust MBL. Show me the opportunism.

[elvis_knits]

Who has considered the possibility that I have a power role?

I have not considered the possibility. If we go around afraid to vote or lynch people because they might have a power role, then nothing would ever happen.

Also, what is the point of soft-claiming like that?

[elvis_knits]

Elvis, what do you think of PJ?

I don't have a problem with him. I haven't played with him in a long time, so there I'm not really going on meta at all. I just haven't read any of his posts and thought it was BS, or thought he was trying to be manipulative.

[Patrick]

I'm getting bored here. Anything I do or don't do is interpreted as scummy. It's getting old.

I'm not interpretting everything you do as scummy, I'm trying to work out what the hell is going on in your head. You know, what mafia is all about. Your boredom is of no interest to me right now.

I'm still not sure what to make of that incident. MBL makes a case against you, does not vote you, I found THAT to be scummy. So no, I wasn't going to vote for you. That didn't jump at you as being scummy??? And then you react by claiming this was not a case against you at all. I've never seen that kind of behavior and I don't know if you're townies caught in your own pointless verbiage, or if you're scumbags trying to set up false trails for later confusion.

I've already explained how it wasn't a case against me, it seemed clear even from only those recaps he'd done that he found at least one player scummier than me. He even made a point of saying that he wouldn't lynch me today. So no, it didn't surprise me at all that he didn't vote me.

And what's OPPORTUNISTIC about it, Patrick???

I didn't vote. I didn't trust MBL. Show me the opportunism.

The fact that you vaguely agreed with his points without getting your hands dirty with any specifics, mostly.

Unvote

though. I need to think about this.

[IH]

I profusely apologize for my lack of activity, and will catch up in the next day or so. It is next to impossible for me to do so tonight. Once again I apologize guys.

[petroleumjelly]

More often than nitpicks, I just see them as plain stupid. But to answer what I think you're asking, it's probably fairly rare. What's the purpose of this question?

What is it with so many people questioning the purpose of my questions lately? The best questions are the ones that don't have an apparent purpose, precisely because people don't know whether they're answering how they "should" answer it or not.

If I were to continue this line of questioning (which I was considering doing, but I guess it's rather pointless now that I'm taking the time to explain this), it would probably have been something along the lines of any or all of these angles (some are similar):

-->

a.)

If you think most points against you are nitpicks, can you show me cases made against you in a couple finished game that you felt were justified (i.e. not "nitpicks")? [Note: If you think nitpicks are justified, then please rephrase your complaint against MBL, because complaining about justified points just seems like sulking].
-->

b.)

Do you feel like you get nitpicked more as town or as scum?
-->

c.)

Do you think nitpicks often have kernels of truth in them? If not, why call them nitpicks? If there's truth to nitpicks, do you feel they are justified? How justified?
-->

d.)

Do you think scum or town are more likely to nitpick?
-->

e.)

Do you think you play drastically different as scum than as town? Do you think most of the differences are minor? Minor enough to sound nitpicky?

And so on. I don't always have specific reasons in mind when I ask a question (I didn't really have an "ultimate purpose" in my question for you, as a matter of fact), but getting an answer on one thing can lead me to question the answer and eventually have a conversation that might be alignment-telling immediately, or perhaps later on (in the sense that if you take an unnatural position, you may well contradict yourself later without realizing you aren't being consistent with your earlier position).

I like to think that splitting up a series of questions into multiple posts can be informative, because that way people don't always know what (if anything) you're getting at and hence can't shape their answers to "satisfy" the "point" of the questions.

That was for more info than you needed. Since I bothered to write this all up, go ahead and answer

all

the questions in this post.

[bluesoul]

Note shea's insert to the top of the page, it explains a bit more on deadlines in this game.

278 ("Who has considered the possibility that I have a power role?") irritates me on several levels. For the sake of not being a snarky bastard I'm not going to list all of them, suffice it to say I'm content with my vote. A claim seems like the choice of wisdom as this day's getting kind of long in the tooth and there's math going on that we're not privy too, I don't want to get stuck with no lynch today.

[chamber]

Id be happy with dgb claiming after that post of hers.

[DrippingGoofball]

Id be happy with dgb claiming after that post of hers.

I'm sure you would.

I too have issues with PJ's questioning.

First, PJ put a KRAP vote on me. Then elvis followed suit. What was the reason? Ah, I was "buttering up" to players, never mind that I find myself pleased to be playing with such a good crowd (though somehow this has turned into my least favorite game, go figure).

PJ just asks question after question to a slew of players, but he never unvotes me. So, what's the point of his annoying questions? His vote is parked early on on the leading wagon, nice place to hide. It's not like he's changing his vote over the "information" he's getting, I'm not seeing any thought process whereby he's drawing any conclusions whatsoever. It's like he's asking questions for the sport of pressuring players, and with all the complicated questions and all the answers he's getting, he's happy to keep his vote on me for "buttering up" until the cows come home. Am I the only one to see anything wrong with that?

Or are the rest of you continue to totally dismiss everything I post as scummy, so why am I wasting my time? I'm starting to thing you just want to get rid of me because I'm DrippingGoofball and no one cares about actually making an effort to truly assess my alignment.

[DrippingGoofball]

278 ("Who has considered the possibility that I have a power role?") irritates me on several levels.

Argh, just lynch me already. Heres's a good reason: I now I want the scum to win. Really. The scum is walking all over us.

I see a bunch of people getting caught in trivial, but lenghty verbiage, everyone speaks smart but no one draws any conclusions, except the easy lazy ones. You have some players that chime in "DGB must die" "as long as DGB dies today" and you're just going along with it.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, the town isn't playing and letting itself be carried by the scum.

Enjoy the ride, you deserve to lose.

Now go ahead and lynch me.

[MrBuddyLee]

My ass we deserve to lose. Find us the scum and explain why they're the scum, and you won't get lynched.

[DrippingGoofball]

My ass we deserve to lose. Find us the scum and explain why they're the scum, and you won't get lynched.

Right. Brilliant suggestion, MBL. There isn't a single thing I said that people haven't jumped on as being scummy, from my second post onward. You want me to "find you scum" or "get lynched." Like any of you have given me one inch of wiggle room to hunt scum. And having a role where a good strategy is not to draw mega-attention to oneself.

Get lost.

Just lynch me.

And here's my goodbye kiss to you.

unvote, vote: MrBuddyLee

- here's your scum on a silver platter. Maybe I don't want YOU to win after all, scumbag. DIE SCUM DIE.

[elvis_knits]

what is the point of soft-claiming like that?

[bluesoul]

what is the point of soft-claiming like that?

[DrippingGoofball]

what is the point of soft-claiming like that?

Lynch me and find out.

[DrippingGoofball]

what is the point of soft-claiming like that?

Lynch me and find out.

[MrBuddyLee]

There isn't a single thing I said that people haven't jumped on as being scummy, from my second post onward. You want me to "find you scum" or "get lynched." Like any of you have given me one inch of wiggle room to hunt scum. And having a role where a good strategy is not to draw mega-attention to oneself.

here's my goodbye kiss to you.

unvote, vote: MrBuddyLee

- here's your scum on a silver platter. Maybe I don't want YOU to win after all, scumbag. DIE SCUM DIE.

Assuming that the reason you're bitching is because you are town who thinks the scum are jumping on you for being scummy, then why are you voting for the person who hasn't really found you scummy?

I still don't particularly think you're scum.. because if you are and you get lynched right now, you've made me look significantly clear with your unsupported attacks on me. Plus, there's something slightly insidious about the attacks on you thus far. However, your behavior merits a closer look right now. You're not even that much on the ropes and you're kind of freaking out. Do you often do that as town?

[MrBuddyLee]

I have a problem with the timeline of your suspicions lining up against the evidence.

MBL, while reading your case on Patrick, I was exclaiming, in my head, "brilliant!" "OMG!" "I could never catch so many tells in a million years! What a stellar string!"

"I'm totally voting Patrick now!"

Then YOU don't vote Patrick.

Erm, why not?

the only player that I find scummy is bluesoul. And even him, only borderline scummy. Everyone is looking pretty townie right now.

So you found me pretty townie on Sunday morning... but then change your story the next afternoon:

MBL makes a case against you, does not vote you, I found THAT to be scummy. That didn't jump at you as being scummy??? And then you react by claiming this was not a case against you at all. I don't know if you're townies caught in your own pointless verbiage, or if you're scumbags trying to set up false trails for later confusion.

vote: mrbuddylee scum on a silver platter

I'm not going to focus on you exclusively, DGB, but this is something that needs to be answered. If you are truly town, why have you suddenly reached the erroneous conclusion that I am extremely likely scum after finding me townish on Sunday? I made one post on Sunday or Monday where I said that if your words read like scumhunting, you won't get lynched. Is that really what you claim set your "scumdar" off about me?

I'm voting Elias because I refuse to let this day end while we have no alignment info on him(his soon-to-be replacement actually) or IH. If anyone thinks this day is best served by a quick lynch of DGB right now, they're not town or they're not good at mafia. Even if a cop has a guilty on her, this day is best served by drawing a more complete relational web.