Minvitational 8 - OVER before 611

[Guardian]

Vote Count 23

shaft.ed[2] (The Fonz, Erg0)
cicero[1] (Oman)
Oman[1] (shaft.ed)
Erg0[1] (cicero)
BillyTwilight[1] (Jitsu)
Jitsu[1] (Kison)

Not Voting[2] (BillyTwilight, vollkan)

---

Reminder:

Deadline: July 28, 6PM EST

[The Fonz]

Vollkan, BT, care to vote or give reason not to do so? We're five days from deadline.

[shaft.ed]

Ugh. Try again:

Again, I don't think that he was specifically trying to force me to vote

- I just think that his Fonz vote was completely ineffectual at that point. If I had to guess the reason, he may have been hoping to avoid being on a townie wagon at the end of the day - if two people had voted for CKD in the meantime then he wouldn't have had to do anything at the end of the day.

I see Erg0 is back to his theory that I was trying to "make him" vote

, and that I was avoiding being on a townie lynch wagon. I don't see either of these points as valid.

See if you can spot the difference.

God I'm playing terribly in this game

shaft.ed: I'm interested in hearing more about the second point - what was the reason for your last minute Fonz vote? Did you realistically expect a Fonz wagon to form in the last 24 hours of the day?

I've already stated I expected about a 10% chance of pushing a Fonz lynch in that short amount of time. I knew it was likely futile, but I was EXTREMELY clear where my vote between CKD and Adel fell if there was a choice between the two. I don't know how many more times I am going to have to say this. I really feel like people are just asking me the same questions over and over again, which is making me look defensive.

Furthermore, for those that have me listed in their top three I'd really like to know why. The Fonz put up a very hollow case against me yesterday, which I feel I amply shot down, and I've seen very little in the form of new accusations today.

[shaft.ed]

Shaft.ed again uses the explanation of trying to gauge Oman's reaction. I could make votes that I cannot follow up with a good explanation all day with a no-limit credit card, too.

The vote was on page 1 and was clearly random. The "comment" was on page two, was partially a joke and was not in anyway related to the vote. Have you ever used this logic to attack a page 1 vote before? In fact have you ever used any logic to attack a page 1 vote before?

[shaft.ed]

My top 3 has been stated already. I stand by them.

I'm really unhappy with the way Oman has been playing as of late. Is it really that hard to type out three names? And why are you still standing by your completely deconstructed cicero "case"?

[The Fonz]

You looked like you were trying to blend in. You made a delayed omgus vote, at deadline when it was clearly going to do little good. Yeah, that's a fine case.

[cicero]

I think Shaft.ed and Fonz should look past each other, imho.

[The Fonz]

Translation: Hi, i'm scum with shaft.ed, and I desperately want Fonz to back off so that Jitsu, and not my buddy, gets lynched.

[shaft.ed]

You looked like you were trying to blend in. You made a delayed omgus vote, at deadline when it was clearly going to do little good. Yeah, that's a fine case.

I really don't see how you say I was trying to blend in.

I think Shaft.ed and Fonz should look past each other, imho.

I should get my reread in today. I won't do it in isolation if that matters.

[The Fonz]

Shooting for the middle of the pack. Surprisingly reliable, though damn hard to express.

[cicero]

Translation: Hi, i'm scum with shaft.ed, and I desperately want Fonz to back off so that Jitsu, and not my buddy, gets lynched.

No. I'm worried about CKD part two while scum floats by not contributing again. An Erg0 lynch would be tech. Come on in. The water's warm and inviting.

[The Fonz]

if people had listened to the shaft.ed case, there wouldn't have BEEN a CKD situation...

[cicero]

Likewise Erg0. Likewise everybody.

[shaft.ed]

Shooting for the middle of the pack. Surprisingly reliable, though damn hard to express.

I've already shot this idea down by the metric you proposed (post counts). Would you care to posit another?

I really feel like you just threw the kitchen sink at me and looked to see if anything would stick. I already adressed every tangible point you had against me including ridiculous accusations about page 1 and 2 random votes. All you have left are subjective points that I have already shown to be weak.

[The Fonz]

Shooting for the middle of the pack. Surprisingly reliable, though damn hard to express.

I've already shot this idea down by the metric you proposed (post counts). Would you care to

I did not suggest post counts as a metric by which to judge your middlingness; that's simply dishonest. You may recall me harping on at you from the very beginning for your cautious, consensual style, your asking of other people to provide cases for you; nothing you have done since has done anything to sway me. (Delayed omgus is also fairly reliable, btw).

My case isn't weak at all, you're scum, and you're going to die.

[Guardian]

I may have no internet over the weekend. If a lynch occurs while I am gone please be patient.

[shaft.ed]

Bah I don't think I'm going to be able to finish this. Also not sure if this is the most concise way to summarize my points as I've already argued against vollkan doing it earlier, but since I have the bullets I'll put them out there.

The main take away I got from reading the early game is that while it transitioned from random to serious play, vollkan was incredibly non-participatory in the actual game and pretty much only talked about game theory. I really didn't read a meaty post through the whole stretch that I read.

Reread trhough post 175:

Fonz:

106) States that if cicero's wagon had gotten sizeable he would have voted into it since he had a premonition cicero was scum. Four votes on page 4 seems rather sizeable.

What was the premonition btw

?
107) votes shaft.ed for my Oman shifting the wagon to cicero comment.
142) Calls for people to wagon me since a "couple of you seem to have made comments in that direction..." Odd since I only noticed Erg0 doing such.
172) Quotes my earlier post about Adel and lurkers and calls for my immediate lynch.

Erg0:

123) Asks question first raised by Fonz about my "Oman wagon shifting" comment. (I point out it was a joke in my next post).

cicero:

40) First somewhat meaningful post saying Simenon's cicero wagon is a likely town tell (he was right).
47) cicero explains its a weak town tell as it is frivilous play.
48) votes Adel for jumping on his wagon without explanation.
59) cicero shows some annoyance for his random wagon.
83) very long post about his wagon. Validly counters a few points. But paints Simenon in a scummish hue based on wiggle room. I'm a bit surprised that he wouldn't vote Simenon after these statements, maybe afraid of looking OMGUSy? Ends with an Erg0 vote citing Erg0's posts consisting mainly of fluff while others have started to actually contribute. Seems valid for early game, but find the non Simenon vote a little strange.
--Note that I find it doubly strange that Simenon replies to cicero by upping the accusations at cicero and then votes into cicero's call for an Erg0 wagon. Seems to weaken previous point against cicero for not voting Simenon.

Oman:

41) asks Sim if he has a reason for the cicero wagon. Sim replies with apparent joke in 43 but Sim quotes cicero's "town tell" post.
44) Oman brings up the town tell point and asks cicero to clarify.
49) votes cicero citing his constant claim of being a townie (for the record I meta'd cicero and he does in fact proclaim towniness more as town than scum. don't know why). Note that Simenon also finds cicero's self-claim of town tell to be scummy.

Billy Twilight:

139) votes Simenon based on his cicero back off. Notes cicero approached his bandwagon both flippantly and logically (I don't think that strange really seeing it was a random wagon for the most part).

Jitsu:

166) First big contributive post. A lot of it is commenting on people commenting about game theory. Points out that he finds cicero's Adel vote odd. Also points out Simenon's abandonmet of the cicero wagon and switch to Erg0. Prods about my previous Oman comments. After all this analysis he drops a vote on Shanba. Somone with one game related post and barely included in his long analysis. Seems weird but he declares it a pressure vote.

vollkan:

Almost nothing game related. Nearly every post is game theory. Very strange for him to have so little relevant content.

In regards to my own play. I do agree that I had a lot of weird focus on Adel. I think it should be noted it took me commenting on it three times in order for her to even chime in about. That made me feel she was trying to avoid the topic.

[cicero]

Once again. Fonz and Shaft.ed should look past each other.

[cicero]

Vollkan, Ergo, Billy Twilight. Outside shot at Kison.

Lotsa love.

Cicero

[shaft.ed]

Shooting for the middle of the pack. Surprisingly reliable, though damn hard to express.

I've already shot this idea down by the metric you proposed (post counts). Would you care to

I did not suggest post counts as a metric by which to judge your middlingness; that's simply dishonest. You may recall me harping on at you from the very beginning for your cautious, consensual style, your asking of other people to provide cases for you; nothing you have done since has done anything to sway me. (Delayed omgus is also fairly reliable, btw).

My case isn't weak at all, you're scum, and you're going to die.

I interpreted this to mean posting frequency

He doesn't spam the thread like Oman, or lurk like Billy- basically, i think it all adds up to trying not to attract too much attention, whilst giving the appearance of contribution.

Fonz do you have any recently completed smaller games as scum I could read?

[shaft.ed]

vollkan why are you much more inactive here than in your other games?

[The Fonz]

Fonz:

106) States that if cicero's wagon had gotten sizeable he would have voted into it since he had a premonition cicero was scum. Four votes on page 4 seems rather sizeable.

What was the premonition btw

?

I actually had a dream that Cicero was scum in this game...

Fonz do you have any recently completed smaller games as scum I could read?

Here are all the minis i've ever played as scum:

Mini 441 Flavourless http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5295
Ultimatum Mafia http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5471
Basically Communist Mafia http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6150
Heroes Smalltown http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6902
Open 42- Friends and Enemies http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6027 (THough here, i replaced an obvscum, and all i had to do was not give my partner away).

[cicero]

I actually had a dream that Cicero was scum in this game... Razz

Well then it must be true! (I don't know whether to be flattered or disturbed by the fact that Fonz is having me in his dreams. Do I look like my avatar and talk in a funny voice? I must know.)

For the more record I'm more into the idea that Fonz is town than that Shaft.ed is. His play has certainly been sloppy. I just fear that its sloppiness being exploited rather than scumminess.

Since Erg0 is more clearly scum we should just lynch him instead.

[The Fonz]

Actually, Cic, of your suspects, i think the best case in on Vollkan. You're right... uncharacteristically little scumhunting there.

[cicero]

I could go for a Vollkan lynch in a heartbeat.