And because you just replaced in, it's essentially a coinflip. Or not, considering the rather scummy claim you made after replacing in.Syzygy wrote:Ok, NC. There are now 7 players in this game, having lost 2 townies on D1 and N1. We have to lynch a scum today or tomorrow it's LyLo. Like I said, if I am not the doctor and the doctor does exist, then it all really depend on whether the doctor believe that I am scum or town pulling this gambit.
If the Mafia has a roleblocker, then the existence of a Doc will reveal the existence of a Cop to them and no one else (except the Cop, if there is one). If the Mafia doesn't have a roleblocker, then the existence of a Doc will reveal that thereNC, you mentioned that this gambit could possibly give the scum too much info, but this game can last a maximum of 4 days assuming we lynch scum today, lynch town tomorrow, and LyLo on Day 4. I do not see how even if the mafia does get information, it helps them in anyway. If anyone try to rolefish EVER, I'll personally nail their behinds and the scums have to choose a NK regardless of which setup it is in hopes of killing the one most likely to be a power-role (again, REGARDLESS of whether power roles exist, they have to try anyways) so IMHO, mafia doesn't benefit from this gambit at all.
It screws the town harder. If a Doc gets killed off, we can't LAL lynch you without taking a serious risk. The only way to clear you without losing would be to follow a Cop, if we have one. Normally, townies are advised not to lie so that LAL can be an effective scumhunting tool. You've taken that tool away from us. Confusion is a tool of the Mafia. It does NOT help the town. And no matter how "confused" the Mafia may be before they make their decision, they're still going to turn in their nightkill. They may just think slightly harder before they turn it in. This gambit will cost the Mafia NOTHING.In addition, keep in mind that this is a SOFT claim, which means that just because I claimed* to be a doctor doesn't mean that it necessarily give the mafia ANY new info. if anything, it will drive them crazy and in a circle of WIFOM (praying here that one of the ICs isn't scum, let scums be newbies please!)
Here's the thing: WE DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE TOWN. If you are, it's a horrible idea to lynch you. If you aren't, it's a horrible idea not to... but we stillThe last setup that I tried this in was different than this one so I'll have to wait to see how it pans out. However, town will be screwed regardless of my role if I am to be lynched. This is because I know I am pro-town, I can say that much and my lynch today means LyLo tomorrow for town no matter what.
And we can't LAL-lynch a scum claiming Doc because you didn't "exactly" claim it. Nor can we lynch you on LAL grounds, because you're straddling the line between Doc and Townie in your claim.The reason why a Doctor shouldn't counterclaim me is because if I am not a doctor and I get lynched as a townie, there exists the possibility of the doctor (existent or not) surviving to D3 whereas if the real Doctor does counterclaim somehow, he/she will be NKed for sure. The reason is that even if there are multiple Doctor counterclaims, all of them must be made by scums except possibly one since I don't think any townie in this game will be as adventurous as me (if I am a townie) to counterclaim with a fakeclaim as Doctor while being town.
This is the sole benefit of this gambit, and it isn't even that great because it still involves surrendering LAL. A Doc getting cardflipped won't implicate you.In fact, if we get 2 additional Doctor counterclaims, it'll be a great thing because at least 1 of them will be made by scum (if not both since the other 1 might be the real one).
See, normally we'd lynch you right now on LAL grounds. But no matter what happens, you can claim that you didn't actually lie. LAL existsThus by logic, I don't forsee any counterclaims today. The key aspect of the gambit is whether the real Doctor (if I am not it) have faith in me despite me lying.
If the Mafia misses an NK tonight, there'll be six people alive tomorrow. Four town, two scum. If a townie gets lynched, that drops it to three town, two scum. The nightkill, if successful, will drop it to two town and two scum. That's endgame, scum victory.In fact, if we can waste at least 1 of the mafia's NK, we get one extra day and in a game which only last max 3/4 days, to get in another day will be optimal.
So we'll be in half-LyLo tomorrow if we lynch a townie today and the scum miss an NK tonight. The town can then NoLynch, let the scum narrow the field from 4-2 to 3-2 on night 3, and pray that there's a Cop on the payroll. That's really not much better because we don't get an "extra day" because that day will just be a foregone NoLynch. If there's a Cop, he'll get an extra investigation, but that's all the benefit we could possibly get. And only the scum will know whether or not there's actually a Cop. Now for the fun part: if the Mafia knows there's a Cop, they can tailor their play to that. They'll NK more aggressively. If they know there isn't one, then they'll claim Cop and there will be no one to counterclaim.
In other words,
See, the only reason I'm so concerned about the existence of a Doc giving the scum information about the existence of a Cop is because of the rather strange setup possibilities in this game. It isn't possible for the town to have both a Doc and a Cop without the scum having a roleblocker. I understand that that's probably for game balance purposes, but the combination of setup possibilities gives the scum a truckload of info that they normally wouldn't have because they know whether or not they have a roleblocker. If it were possible for the town to have both a Doc and a Cop without the Mafia having a roleblocker, then I'd tell the Doc to go nuts because his existence wouldn't say anything to the Mafia about the existence of a Cop.
Incidentally, the setup possibilities make a claimed Cop absolutely useless after he claims. If the scum have a roleblocker, then they know there's a Doc. They'll roleblock the Cop and keep NKing until they hit the Doc, then NK the Cop. If they don't have a roleblocker, then they know that they can just hit the Cop with no risk of Doc protection.
Of course, I'm assuming a townie lynch today, just because that seems to be how it always works out. And in any event, I am NOT calling for you to be lynched because I don't want to lynch a Doc. Not even a softclaimed Doc. But having you around with that semi-claim and us unable to lynch you on LAL grounds nevertheless makes you too much of a liability to have around later.
So if the rest of the town doesn't want to put you under the hammer and force you to make a hard claim, then I ask the Doc, if he's out there, not to protect Syz.
Syz, if you're the Doc or a townie, I really hope that you take this as a lesson and never run this kind of gambit ever again.