Mini 634 - The Baron's court: Game over

[sekinj]

Well.. what if I told you Rage actually means Rage-a-muffin?

Your avatar seems to contradict that....

[sekinj]

Her last name was Shadowinger... that may indicate that the Beast Master role wasn't necessarily pro-town.

[sekinj]

Green usually means pro-town.

true, true...

[sekinj]

Well.. what if I told you Rage actually means Rage-a-muffin?

Your avatar seems to contradict that....

What?

I just mean, your avatar doesn't look as harmless as "rage-a-muffin" sounds.

[sekinj]

In previous Johoohno modded games green has been pro-town. I don't think speculating about what kind of role Nightson was will be in any way helpful. Its only taking away from the focus of actually scumhunting today.

Vote: Gremwell

Mariyta's inquiry about the role sounds honest, and SL tried to helpfully answer it while at the same time putting the matter to bed in post 8. Gremwell brings it back up again in 10, with a comment that is both untestable and highly distracting. So he gets my vote.

Not sure I agree with this. Mariyta seems pretty interested in pursuing that line of reasoning. I know the game has barely started, but her only posts so far have included it. In context, Grem's comment does not strike me as out of line. Several players added their two cents. Comments on avatars and names were made as well, which have nothing to do with scumhunting, yet were not suspected (true, those kinds of comments are normal at the start of a game, but my point is that they are less helpful than speculating about roles, yet OGML did not suspect the players that made them.)

Maybe figuring out how people are connected to the baron and their abilities will help us figure out who the scum are.

[sekinj]

Eh I've found that more often than not those engaging in and especially furthering the "shucks we lost a power role" discussion are actually the scum bragging about who they hit.

Its obviously not a strong case but its much better than a random vote.

Good point. Scum could also use that type of dicussion to draw out other players who might have had insider information about the one who was NK'd. Maybe looking for another pro-town partner or the like in order to target that person.

If then, I'm not sure who I would point too as furthering the discussion since there were questions, comments and speculation from several players, starting with Mar.

[sekinj]

Speculating about the role is like cats trying to understand general relativity. sure they could try, but what the hell is the point. Its only going to end up confusing the town more than anything else and lead to baseless arguments.

I thought I'd let you know, my cat is very smart. Not only does he understand general relativity, he does my taxes for me.

[sekinj]

I hope they realize the game has started by now!

[sekinj]

@ThAdmiral: Where were you last night when Night was killed in the Baron's guest's quarters?

[sekinj]

@raver: have you decided not to play? You have yet to post...

[sekinj]

no i am still in just dont havent come to a decision on who i think is scummy yet.

How can you come to a decision without talking to anyone?

[sekinj]

^ Why not? Are you afraid of becoming a target yourself? are you protecting someone else?

[sekinj]

@Rage: Where were you when Night was killed?

[sekinj]

Just trying to do SOMETHING!!

[sekinj]

Well at least people are playing now.

No, I'm not the scum, I just think it is important that we find them. And sitting on our thumbs while no one posts is not my idea of playing a game.

So, it is fine that you are suspicious of me, at least we have something to talk about.

[sekinj]

you know what - in the spirit of getting some discussion going i will tell you where I was:

I was in the village inn.

Ok. That's plausible. I was asleep in my quarters.

[sekinj]

I think some of the information is relevant and some is flavor... What if everyone shared their character's first name? I'm thinking that has to give us some information, and I can't see how the scum would use that against us...

Anyone see anything the scum might use with just our first names? If not, I'll start by sharing mine...

[sekinj]

No, I'm not looking for claims. I just want information. Since this is a theme game, most of us have something or other that we do at night and like the beastmaster they may not be conventional.

I just know the scum have something to hide, the town only have to hide to avoid the scum, so if we can get some info our there it will help us find scum.

Is anyone else interested in playing this themed game??

[sekinj]

Is anyone else interested in playing this themed game??

Obviously we're all interested in playing this themed game, we all signed up for it.

Signing up for a game IS NOT indicative of wanting to play. Just take a look at the replacements thread.

But volunteering role based information for no good reason is not a good idea. I have no idea if the rooms are simply flavor or have a mechanical function in game, but you can bet if they do have a function, its either the bad guys who need to know more about our personal information or a town power role who would be outing him/herself based on this information. The names might seem like a harmless thing for everyone to claim, but even that is giving up information without making the scum or anyone else fight to drag it out of us, i.e. by bandwagoning and leaving a vote record.

Fine. All you other townies can just sit there and lurk along with the scum and nothing will happen in this thread.

[sekinj]

Is anyone else interested in playing this themed game??

Obviously we're all interested in playing this themed game, we all signed up for it.

Signing up for a game IS NOT indicative of wanting to play. Just take a look at the replacements thread.

But volunteering role based information for no good reason is not a good idea. I have no idea if the rooms are simply flavor or have a mechanical function in game, but you can bet if they do have a function, its either the bad guys who need to know more about our personal information or a town power role who would be outing him/herself based on this information. The names might seem like a harmless thing for everyone to claim, but even that is giving up information without making the scum or anyone else fight to drag it out of us, i.e. by bandwagoning and leaving a vote record.

Fine. All you other townies can just sit there and lurk along with the scum and nothing will happen in this thread.

What is looks like is that you keep putting your foot in your mouth and the votes keep piling up.

I say what I mean to say. Go ahead and vote for me if you want to help the scum.

[sekinj]

Since I'm at L-2, I'll go ahead and claim.

I am a chancellor, the baron's right hand man. I have no night powers, but I DO have some unique information that might help us find the scum.

So, if you are scum and want to sience that info, go ahead and vote for me.

[sekinj]

Fine. All you other townies can just sit there and lurk along with the scum and nothing will happen in this thread.

How is this in any way a response to the argument I made?

In other words, I understand that caution is sometimes warranted. However if no one talks, town loses.

[sekinj]

I got a whole list clues, but I can't play all my cards at once, or we could find scum.

I'll share two things for now:

First: almost all of us have night powers of some sort, 10 in fact. I am one of the few who has none.

Second: Whoever has a first name starting with the letter B is a pro-town character.

[sekinj]

I think I'm done spilling my guts until someone else has the balls to do the same.

[sekinj]

I think I'm done spilling my guts until someone else has the balls to do the same.

It wasn't smart to share the rest of the info you did. I personally would've preferred just a name for the time being.

Unvote

for now. I need to think on it. Might be putting it back tomorrow.

thx. I'll use my own judgement on what needs to be shared and when. If you are so eager to learn my name, then why didn't you speak up in the last page when I proposed that everyone share their names? no, instead you voted to lynch me.

[sekinj]

I'm not buying sekinj's claim, I'm afraid. I agree that it's unlikely that 10 out of 11 have night powers (and the 11th has a load of information instead), plus this sentence:

"I got a whole list clues, but I can't play all my cards at once, or we could find scum."

Um - catching scum is what we're trying to do, isn't it? You're withholding 'cards' because said cards could help us catch scum? Not good, really not good. Or did you mean something completely different?

I was typing that on my blackberry and forgot the negative. "I got a whole list clues, but I can't play all my cards at once, or we could

n't

find scum." If I just list out everything I know, that wouldn't help us find scum.

Even if you don't believe that I accidentally forgot the "n't", the sentence still wouldn't make sense if I WAS scum.

[sekinj]

I was given the list of information in my role pm. But then I had a note delivered to me at night as well (anonymously). So, I'm going to use the info I have to catch scum, but some of it even I take with a grain of salt.

However, since I'm using this info to find scum, I can't be completely up front about everything. In other words,even if it wasn't against the rules, I wouldn't just quote my role pm because that would help the scum more than the town. Despite mar's comment I'm not trying to be dumb about this.

[sekinj]

One point that was brought up earlier was game clues vs. flavor. Because of the info list I was given I think many of the things we would normally assume to be flavor are in fact clues.

[sekinj]

No one said otherwise in so many words, you are right. But also, no one agreed in the slighted. What DID happen is that I started getting voted for. That tells me that my suggestion of sharing my name was interepted as scummy. Now you and mar are pressuring me to go through with it. That seems very odd to me.

I am not about to spout all my little facts one after another until you deign to believe that I am pro-town. I'm also not going to give information under pressure from someone I cannot trust. I will stand my ground until the situation calls for more information.

I will address your other points in a few hours.

[sekinj]

No one said otherwise in so many words, you are right. But also, no one agreed in the slighted. What DID happen is that I started getting voted for. That tells me that my suggestion of sharing my name was interepted as scummy. Now you and mar are pressuring me to go through with it. That seems very odd to me.

I am not about to spout all my little facts one after another until you deign to believe that I am pro-town. I'm also not going to give information under pressure from someone I cannot trust. I will stand my ground until the situation calls for more information.

I will address your other points in a few hours.

[sekinj]

Oops... look like I double posted the same thing. I guess that comes from trying to play mafia form my blackberry.

[sekinj]

Hello ya'll, I was out of town for a couple days and didn't get the chance to tell all my games. To get right into this, I'd like some things cleared up:

you know what - in the spirit of getting some discussion going i will tell you where I was:

I was in the village inn.

Ok. That's plausible. I was asleep in my quarters.

How did you consider that plausible when you sleep in your quarters? How did you know that the village inn existed on Night 0?

I really don't know if he was being serious or not. I don't know if the Villiage Inn is an actual location, or if ThAdmiral was being facetious. I was just saying, in a world of barons and mansions and guest quarters, a "village inn" sounds plausible.

First: almost all of us have night powers of some sort, 10 in fact. I am one of the few who has none.

This clue does not help the Town at all on Day 1. The Town has no way to know this is true, nor whether you are pro-town because of it.

If it were not true, wouldn't we have people jumping out of the wood-work claiming that they don't have night powers? but no, everyone took that news sitting down, no one reacted violently or was shocked, or stood up and screamed "WAIT!! SHE MUST BE SCUM, I DON'T HAVE NIGHT POWERS!!" That didn't happen. So to me, that looks like the information is accurate.

Second: Whoever has a first name starting with the letter B is a pro-town character.

I believe this more than the first "clue" you gave out. If you are town, you are giving out unnecessary information to the scum, especially considering how you have more Knowledge. If you are scum, which is more likely because of the fact that you have this information in the first place, you are giving out this information to get the town off of your back.

well, I certainly can't help my townmates if they lynch me for being too nosy. I also can't help the town if I keep all the information to myself. So, I claimed and shared some information in order to convince people not to lynch me. From my point of view that is VERY pro-town. I am convinced that the town needs my help to find and lynch the scum. We just have to put the clues together. This however is complicated by the fact that we have scum masquerading under our noses.

I think some of the information is relevant and some is flavor... What if everyone shared their character's first name? I'm thinking that has to give us some information, and I can't see how the scum would use that against us...

Anyone see anything the scum might use with just our first names? If not, I'll start by sharing mine...

You stated this before you claimed.

Second: Whoever has a first name starting with the letter B is a pro-town character.

You stated this after you claimed. What I want to know is, what scum-hunting could you have possibly done by getting a pro-town role to reveal their self?

I didn't demand that they reveal themselves (in fact it is you and mar who are demanding that from me). I just gave the information out for consideration by everyone. Maybe it will come up later in the game. Maybe nothing will come of it at all.

Vote: sekinj

The information you have given out so far benefits the scum much more than it does the Town. Remember that this is the Baron's

Court

? The title of this game means that it is more likely trouble is coming from inside of the court, meaning someone of power has turned to the dark side. Of course, they would need some sort of motive, which in your case I think it is safe to assume that your character has a lack of power and is wanting to change that. However, my own Knowledge precedes me. Sekinj, if you want your name cleared from my suspicions, I suggest for you to give out more information. The information I would like to know is your first name, nickname and last name. And I think it all the more reason for you to be giving this information out seeing as how you have said the following:

Anyone see anything the scum might use with just our first names? If not, I'll start by sharing mine...

And no one has said otherwise.

If you don't believe me now, how will more information change that? Wouldn't you just doubt the additional things I say? Besides, I'm not here to clear my name with you. I'm here to save the Baron from getting killed.

And I have one question for you... why are you so sure I have a nickname?

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch before deadline)
(2) raverblood – Gremwell, MafiaMann
(2) sekinj – OhGodMyLife, Rage

Not voting:

Mariyta, raverblood, sekinj, Singing Librarian, ThAdmiral, thinktank

Deadline:

Saturday 9 August 1:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

@rage: you didn't answer my question. Why are you so sure I have a nickname?

Since no one else has shared personal information (which I can understand, but still, it leaves me little to go on) I only have the reactions to my posts to go on. I've rocked the boat more than anyone else, so that is the only thing we can go on right now.

There are some people that I suspect of being scum, and others that I just suspect of not being too bright.

Mariyta is currently at the top of my LoS. I'm not sure if I just find her personally annoying, or actually scummy. We will have to play longer to see. However, it was her post that made the first minor disturbance, and I have yet to see anything from her that helps the town.

[sekinj]

First: almost all of us have night powers of some sort, 10 in fact. I am one of the few who has none.

please elucidate. do you mean ten out of the starting eleven roles in the game had night actions? and that you are the one person who doesn't have a night action?

That is the information I have. Yes.

[sekinj]

It's a pity we didn't name claim when we were asked to. Generally they just don't help much but we actually could have (basically) confirmed some towns.

Role seems alright to me. Believable and so far no one has contradicted his "clues".

Is there anything else you would like to ask us sekinj that may lead to finding scum?

for the record, I am 'she' but my character is a 'he'.

Maybe we should share the gender of each of our characters?

[sekinj]

Confirm Vote: sekinj

10 players, total, have night choices. You are contradicting that? I guess you wouldn't care to explain?

[sekinj]

Maybe we should share the gender of each of our characters?

Could you explain how this would benefit

anyone

in this game?

Frankly, it will help me tell who is lying.

But your idea is fine too. Sharing nicknames is a good idea.

[sekinj]

Mariyta is currently at the top of my LoS. I'm not sure if I just find her personally annoying, or actually scummy. We will have to play longer to see. However, it was her post that made the first minor disturbance, and I have yet to see anything from her that helps the town.

OMGUS much? For the record, I have a nickname, Nightson had a nickname, it goes to follow that there are others that have nicknames as well.

Cry me a river. If I had listed suspicions on half the other players you would have claimed OMGUS as well. Considering I was almost lynched, it's a good bet the scum were on the wagon. However, I listed my suspicion honestly and didn't even puncuate it with a vote. I said we will have to play longer to see how you turn out. So far you're still not helping the town any that I can see.

[sekinj]

Clearly I am saying that either

ten out of the starting eleven roles in the game had night actions

or

[sekinj is] the one person who doesn't have a night action

must be false.

Clearly. Just as I clearly stated my information and you still had me confirm it.

Anyway, do you care to embellish?

[sekinj]

No response to the fact that my existence proves the supposed information you presented to be utterly false?

Nobody should volunteer any further information about their roles. I have sufficiently counterclaimed sekinj. She needs to be lynched now.

Wait your turn. I'm not afraid to address any arguements.

I still maintain that this the information I recieved with my role: 10 players, total have night choices, and I do not have any night powers.

[sekinj]

Oh, and my nickname is "Sage"

[sekinj]

*sigh* classic he said she said.

[sekinj]

I don't know. Maybe there IS some sort of sanity involved like someone mentioned before.

I was very surprised to hear OGML's claim, I can't really see why he would lie about it. Plus, no one else has joined in his claim. If he WAS scum, I would thing that he and one or two buddies might claim they have no night choices in order to get me lynched, but on his own I can't see how that would be effective.

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

[sekinj]

it said night choices, which I interpreted as, something to do at night other than wait.

[sekinj]

I don't think a scum pair would be so stupid as to cc together

In this case, it just seems like something they could easily do while still seeming town. but yeah, they would have some explaining to do when I got lynched and turned up town.

It's just hard for me to see why OGML would be lying.

[sekinj]

Oops, I didn't see this!

It's just hard for me to see why OGML would be lying.

If you knew he was lying, which means the information you have received in your Knowledge is correct, you would know that either 1) He REALLY wants you lynched or 2) He is scum. However, if you do not know he is lying, meaning the information you have received in your Knowledge is not correct and you have lied to the Town about it, you wouldn't not know nearly as much.

What do you think makes more sense, sekinj?

Rage: listen to what I'm saying. I obviously know I'm not lying. But I can't understand why OGML would be lying either. He seems convinced, and I dont' know what it would gain him to lie. that's all I'm saying. And, as I already said, maybe there is some sort of sanity involved. I also think that the scum aren't necessarily the only lyers in this game. For example, I'm sure the Baron at least would feel like he has to lie to hide his identity.

[sekinj]

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

lol, why would it say Power if you didn't have one? I'm convinced you are hiding something about what your role is capable of doing from the Town.

My vote stays where it is.

I really couldn't tell you why the mod structures his PMs the way he does.

[sekinj]

I just don't see the point in giving out more information if :

a) According to most players, the information I have given benefits scum more than town
b) Most players think giving personal information is scummy
c) Fishing for information to back up the clues I have is scummy
b) My information is not believed anyway

[sekinj]

OGML seems to have dropped out of the discussion. You should really contribute. Currently, your lack of participation strikes me as very scummy. "I refuse to give you any more info; now I'm going to go sit on my rock."

Sekinj, I think you're overreacting quite a bit. If you are indeed the chancellor, you should know how important your information will be in the long run, despite what happens right now. Play it smart and stay alive as long as possible.

What bothers me the most is players who push and push for my special information, yet don't provide any of their own basic information.

[sekinj]

I need to point out that my information is almost useless if we don't know anything about each other. (Like the little tid-bit about the first name starting with B, it means nothing currently because we don't know anyone's first name). Now, I understand how that could work to the advantage of the scum, but I think if we play a crafty game, the town will come out ahead.

[sekinj]

Ok I'd just like to clarify this,

sekinj- you claim barons chancellor, a role with no power/night action, but instead has a list of clues that you don't know if their true


ohgodmylife- you claim to not have a power/night action, and refuse to give any other information

I'm not digging for any new information I'd just like to make sure we're all on the exact same page

I

did

trust my clues, until OGML popped up with his side of the story (which I can't reconcile by simply saying he's lying and is scum, because I don't know why scum would be that desperate to lynch me)... I still don't know what to think about it since OGML hasn't come back to comment anymore.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch before deadline)
(2) OhGodMyLife – MafiaMann, Mariyta
(1) sekinj – OhGodMyLife

Not voting:

Gremwell, Rage, raverblood, sekinj, Singing Librarian, ThAdmiral, thinktank

Deadline:

Saturday 9 August 1:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

a) According to most players, the information I have given benefits scum more than town

Does most players = Rage and Raverblood?

No, I didn’t count the players, I just saw several people say that including you, raver and thinktank. I agree that the scum could use the information, but I’m hoping to play a smart enough game so that the town is the one with the advantage.

b) Most players think giving personal information is scummy

Where has this been said by anyone?

Are you kidding? That is the whole premise of OGML’s posts after claiming he doesn’t have night powers. Telling people not to share because according to him I am scum.

c) Fishing for information to back up the clues I have is scummy

I've been trying to do that to both you and OhGodMyLife but have never been called scummy for trying.

My fishing for information is what started the whole wagon against me. Apparently at least 4 players think it is very scummy.

[d]) My information is not believed anyway

Refer to a) and b).

OGML, Sing (post 83, 163), Rage (post 141), raver (post 157) all say that my information is not believable or that I am lying. I completely understand that players can’t believe me off hand, and that I will be doubted, but my point is that I’m not going to give out more information in hopes of being more believable.

@OhGodMyLife, I think it is now quite obvious that you have not provided enough information to back up your claim against Sekinj.

Agreed.

[sekinj]

OGML seems to have dropped out of the discussion. You should really contribute. Currently, your lack of participation strikes me as very scummy. "I refuse to give you any more info; now I'm going to go sit on my rock."

Sekinj, I think you're overreacting quite a bit. If you are indeed the chancellor, you should know how important your information will be in the long run, despite what happens right now. Play it smart and stay alive as long as possible.

What bothers me the most is players who push and push for my special information, yet don't provide any of their own basic information.

You can't expect everyone to just start revealing everything because you say so. You're not the only important role out there and I'm sure most of those roles want to stay just as alive as you are. You can bet your booty that the first time someone with a name beginning with B comes forward, they'll be dead that night. It's the safe move for scum.

I completely understand the hesitation. Yet although you and Rage both want me to share my full name, neither of you have provided ANY information (except that rage shared gendar info). I just don't understand pushing people to do things that you are not willing to do.

[sekinj]

Frankly, it will help me tell who is lying.

My character is female and I am a male in real life, am I lying?

I didn't mean to skip this question. The answer is not a simple yes and no unfortunately. However, I do know how many female characters there are in total.

[sekinj]

[d]) My information is not believed anyway

Refer to a) and b).

OGML, Sing (post 83, 163), Rage (post 141), raver (post 157) all say that my information is not believable or that I am lying. I completely understand that players can’t believe me off hand, and that I will be doubted, but my point is that I’m not going to give out more information in hopes of being more believable.

say what i didnt say that your post was not believable or that you where lying. in post 157???

you are right, I think it was post 132 that I was looking at. In that post you say a lot about how I don't seem townie because I claimed early.

everyone: please feel free to look at the posts I'm referencing and let me know if I am mis-understanding your meaning.

[sekinj]

heres is just thought that i have come up with.

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

trouble is coming from the Baron's staff. Seeing as how you apparently have no night action but are what I assume the closest role to the Baron

rage you gave me an idea... if sekinj is true on what he says then could power be the closest to baron.

FoS: sekinj

because he does seem to be the closest.

Raver: In looking back at your posts I noticed this one. I have to point out that this makes no sense at all. You are FoSing me based on my information possibly being true?

[sekinj]

@sing: Okay. I'm glad you pointed that out.


@everyone: I do plan on giving more information when the time calls for it, but my point was that I'm not going to give out more information simply to convince people I am town. That doesn't seem like it would work anyway.

[sekinj]

@sing: Okay. I'm glad you pointed that out.


@everyone: I do plan on giving more information when the time calls for it, but my point was that I'm not going to give out more information simply to convince people I am town. That doesn't seem like it would work anyway.

Giving more out now would be a bad idea because from what we've seen all the information you have would be well utilized later in the game. the more you reveal now the more safe claims you will be giving scum.

Yes. I agree.

[sekinj]

OGML seems to have dropped out of the discussion. You should really contribute. Currently, your lack of participation strikes me as very scummy. "I refuse to give you any more info; now I'm going to go sit on my rock."

Sekinj, I think you're overreacting quite a bit. If you are indeed the chancellor, you should know how important your information will be in the long run, despite what happens right now. Play it smart and stay alive as long as possible.

What bothers me the most is players who push and push for my special information, yet don't provide any of their own basic information.

You can't expect everyone to just start revealing everything because you say so. You're not the only important role out there and I'm sure most of those roles want to stay just as alive as you are. You can bet your booty that the first time someone with a name beginning with B comes forward, they'll be dead that night. It's the safe move for scum.

I completely understand the hesitation. Yet although you and Rage both want me to share my full name, neither of you have provided ANY information (except that rage shared gendar info). I just don't understand pushing people to do things that you are not willing to do.

A)I told you I had a nickname. If it makes you feel better, I'm a girl, but my character is male.
B)The reason people are pushing is because you are highly suspicious, and you can't be upset that a role like yours would be met with hesitation. It's a dangerous role if it's actually a scum role.

Understood. But I'm going to push back as well because I can't help the town unless I am believed.

[sekinj]

heres is just thought that i have come up with.

My info said, Power: --- and then later in my list of knowledge: 10 players, in total, beside you have night choices.

trouble is coming from the Baron's staff. Seeing as how you apparently have no night action but are what I assume the closest role to the Baron

rage you gave me an idea... if sekinj is true on what he says then could power be the closest to baron.

FoS: sekinj

because he does seem to be the closest.

Raver: In looking back at your posts I noticed this one. I have to point out that this makes no sense at all. You are FoSing me based on my information possibly being true?

yes and no.. i was fosiing you per that you do same the closest to the baron. however i am not voting you per it was you who has the clue on the power that i was speculating is the closest to the baron. plus i did forget to

unFoS

if i can do that?? lol

Is english your first language?

[sekinj]

Rage

: Capitalized the word Knowledge; what was your reason for this?

Related to role messages. I hope this is where Sekinj is getting his information from.

yeah, I figured that's what you were refering too because that's how mine was formatted as well.

[sekinj]

aren't we all...

[sekinj]

Guys, I'm a vanilla townie with flavorful frills. If you really think that as scum I would counterclaim what is essentially also a vanilla with a twist claim from sekinj, on day one, then go ahead and help lynch me for that. But you're either scum or not thinking this through clearly at all.

Why on God's green Earth would scum sacrifice themselves on day one to lynch

the only vanilla townie

?

If what sekinj said were true, then every single other person in this game is a better target for a scum counterclaim. Every single one.

I know you will react badly to this, but personally I'd like to hear a little more about those "flavorful frills". If they are really just flavor, then how could it hurt to share at least a little of that info?

[sekinj]

Why is OMGL the best candidate?

It looks like most people think the best lynch today would either be OGML or me. People are leaning toward believing me and lynching OGML because I have provided more detailed information and OGML has just said, "she's lying, I'm vanilla townie".

[sekinj]

I have no night abilities. There is a specific character in this game who, in the event they are ever nightkilled, I automatically lose. This is another reason why I am so against revealing any sort of role based information whatsoever. I don't want this person to be revealed.

That is the extent of my role. I'm not giving out the rolename or the character name, and I'm certainly not saying who my win con is tied to because (warning: setup speculation) its a good bet that the scum in this game have a rolecop of some kind.

Do you have anything at all that could be considered a 'night choice'??

I actually have the same auto lose clause, but I don't know if it is for the same role.

[sekinj]

I don't see how sekinj could not be scum unless one of us has gravely misinterpreted our role information.

But why would I lie in so much detail?

I replaced in for Gimbo and the game started right away, becuase there was no night choice for me to consider or make.

I have to agree with the non-binary idea, because my info clearly states 10 players with night choices. and I don't see an advantage to OGML's lying at this point.

[sekinj]

I hahve another alternate possiblity OMGLs win condition has somthing to do with lynching sekinj or chancellor.

I don't think I'm THAT special...

[sekinj]

Unvote

sekinj, is there any conceivable way for you to have been given false information?

Unless my original role PM contained falsehoods, the information about night choices is truthful. "10 players, in total, beside you have night choices."

And I was not given a Power, or a night choice on Night 0. Since I was a replacement the mod said, "I'll start the game soon (since you role doesn't have a night choices to use)." He even spelled everything like that.

[sekinj]

FoS: Mariyta and Rage

Besides me, they have been the most eager to drag information out of others. I have let everyone know my reasons, but they have yet to explain theirs.

[sekinj]

FoS: Mariyta and Rage

Besides me, they have been the most eager to drag information out of others. I have let everyone know my reasons, but they have yet to explain theirs.

Yes, I wanted info from you, who claimed a very odd claim, and from OGML, who claimed vanilla, then refused to give anything else to prove that claim. I'm such a horrible person.

as I've said before, it is scummy because you push for full disclosure, but are not willing to give it yourself.

[sekinj]

FoS: Mariyta and Rage

Besides me, they have been the most eager to drag information out of others. I have let everyone know my reasons, but they have yet to explain theirs.

Yes, I wanted info from you, who claimed a very odd claim, and from OGML, who claimed vanilla, then refused to give anything else to prove that claim. I'm such a horrible person.

as I've said before, it is scummy because you push for full disclosure, but are not willing to give it yourself.

Um, because I'm not currently on the block, and there's no need for me to give that much information? Have you EVER played mafia before?

Why do you freak out when I FoS you? There is no need for goading or attacks on my experience. I stated my reason for being suspicious of you, and you have countered them, and that will continue back and forth throughout the game between ALL the players.

[sekinj]

Because I feel your reasons for the FOS are completely unfounded.

That was stated much better than previously. Thank you. However, you obviously wouldn't agree with suspicion against yourself.

[sekinj]

I've been holding off on voting OGML because I couldn't see why he would be lying. However, he is currently not helping the town at all. If he is pro-town then he's made quite a distraction of himself, which I admit applies to me as well, but I couldn't see how to use my info without claiming epecially since I have nothing EXCEPT my Knowledge and also was about to be lynched. However, I have attempted to be as forthcoming as possible.

With the upcoming deadline I see no other good option but to vote OGML. Maryita is still very suspicious to me.

Vote: OGML

[sekinj]

I'm goign to change my vote to Mariyta at this time because I do believe she has acted more inflamatory than a townie should.

I voted OGML because it seemed that Mar was a hopeless cause, but now it's not looking as bad as before. I will try to check again before the deadline.

Unvote, Vote: Mar

I will add my plea for a deadline extension. It would be very helpful if we could at least wait until Monday evening.

[sekinj]

Reply to Post 277:

yep. that's what it said. I don't completely understand it either. All I know is that is what it said, and I did not have a night choice on Night 0, and no evidence of having a night choice on any upcoming night either.

From the mod's advice I will no longer be referencing exactly what was said in my PMs. I will paraphrase, and that will just have to be good enough.

[sekinj]

if that is the case, I'm not laughing...

[sekinj]

@mar: I didn't get a hug when I voted for you... where's the love?

[sekinj]

OK, unoffical vote count:

Rage 1
Mar 2
OGML 4

I encourage everyone to look at the rules. If we go to deadline without a lynch, THERE WILL BE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES FOR THE TOWN!!

I'm going to switch back over to OGML so that maybe our extension will mean something. As it is, we added one vote to OGML, and Admiral unvoted, and revoted mar in the extra time we have had... i now understand why the mod was hesitant to give us extra time in the first place.

GREM AND THINKTANK: PLEASE VOTE!! If either of you are town, please vote.

Unvote
Vote: OGML

[sekinj]

So, I'm wondering if I am insane...

and it turns out ThAdmiral was being serious when he said he was at the Village Inn. According to my notes, there are two more sections, and only one of those sections is currently in use.

[sekinj]

^ I already said it. Makes me wonder if I'm insane...

[sekinj]

Mar

iy

ta: If you are going insist we type your name right, I'm going to insist you take notice of my gender.

[sekinj]

The posts Mar brought up from thinktank are very interesting. Why would he contradict himself so badly?

I DO know that two townies counter-claiming each other and the town saying one has to be lynched on one day and then the other the next day is any scum's wet dream. I'm sure the scum were very "helpful" in pushing the binary option along.

I will be looking back through with that in mind. For now, I'd really like Think to explain his flop.

FoS: think

[sekinj]

Oh, don't worry, I don't know the sections, just how many there are. I've kept track in my notes and 3 sections have been mentioned so far. There is one more section currently in use, and then a 5th section that will come into play later in the game.

[sekinj]

so, no, I couldn't tell you the names of the sections even if I wanted. However, each person began the game in a certain section. It looks like the admiral died in the same section he began the game in.

[sekinj]

I would like to submit exibit A in defense of my sanity:

ca·pri·cious –adjective
1. subject to, led by, or indicative of caprice or whim; erratic: He's such a capricious boss I never know how he'll react.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capricious

[sekinj]

@Rage: You are either not understanding me at all or purposefully twisting my words. I will explain again. When OGML counter claimed me, I wondered about my sanity, because I coudn't understand what he was gaining from lying. When he turned up town for sure, I again wondered about my own sanity. (Maybe my player is insane, but doesn't know it). Then, I noticed OGML's nickname which means that he was fickle and reactionary. That can easily explain why he counterclaimed me while still being town. Therefore, I AM telling the truth and I AM NOT crazy. Maybe it was written into OGML's character that he will die if he does not counter claim the first player that claims, I know I myself have received threats on my life based on events in the game.

and about the sections: (By SECTION I am refering to The Village Inn or the Guest Quarters, ETC.) All I know is how many sections there are. I know the names of the sections people have died in so far (just liek everyone else), and the name of my own section, I know that there is currently one more section in use (which I dont' know the name of), and an additional section that will be in use later. For right now it looks like everyone has died in the same section they started in, however, if another seciton will be in use later, apparently some people will be moving.. this is specualtion, I don't know how that is going to work.

For right now I am suspicious of Think and Rage. They both pushed the binary options the most. Rage has not started this day off in any way that changes my opinion of him.(@Rage: I know you will claim OGMUS, but get over it, it's not). I am looking over their posts and will be building a case.

And Grem's vote wasn't a hasty hammer!!! It was a vote cast to save the town from whatever bad thing happens from a no lynch at deadline. it was a VERY pro-town move, and Rage trying to scumatize it is SCUMMY.

[sekinj]

*thinks* hmm... *thinks* Yes! I would much rather mislynch a townie than have a no lynch in this game. We were very close to deadline and most players that hadn't already voted were AWOL. In fact i would rather personally be mislynched as a townie than have a no lynch. If the deadline were coming up and I was L-1 I would vote myself at the last minute as my last pro-town sacrifice.

[sekinj]

@MM: I'm not panicing. I said the sanity thing once today, and then you had me repeat it. Then I thought of an explaination for OGML and me both being town. I'm surprised you are going back to the binary option after all your talk yesterday about it not being the only answer.

And as for trying to find scum, I have already stated my suspicions and will post more about that later today.

[sekinj]

I'm completely, utterly, 100% against a mass claim. There is someone out there who if they are nk'd I lose, so NO MASS CLAIM for roles.

I wouldn't mind gather OTHER info though... maybe sex, first names, nicknames, sections... Not all of that, and certainly not all at once, but I wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about people... and I'd really love it if the scum would just raise their hand too...

(my favorite is sex )

[sekinj]

I was asking you to reconsider saying Gremwell's vote wasn't hasty, yet saying we were close to a deadline. From what I can tell, his reasoning was:

vote ogml

though I think the jester role would fit well in "the barons court"

Basically, that's saying nothing about his vote for OhGodMyLife, and considering the option of a Jester role in the game. His vote is iffy to me, because he realizes the option of a Jester yet hammers, without reason, a Townie. You giving him wiggle room isn't helping.

I think it IS saying something about his vote for OGML. In context it says, "I'm voting for OGML in order to avoid a no lynch, however, it is quite possible that he is a jester or some other role that IS NOT scum, yet is still lying for some reason." Or that's how I read it anyway. I'll give him all the wiggling room he wants for that post. I stand by my opinion that it was a very pro-town action.

[sekinj]

Okay. I'm 100% sure i know the sex of think and sing... but I if I say it and one or the other are scum, they could easily just say the opposite. However, if they tell the truth and then I just agree... I haven't proved anything...

[sekinj]

It is very important for everyone to note: I do not believe I am insane anymore. OGML's nickname proved to me that he was the one who was being irrational.

As far as the current topic goes, I know how many total female characters there are. So, that helps me know who is lying. I'm not saying it is cut and dry. Just more evidence to take into consideration.

[sekinj]

His nickname was capricious. Which means he acted erratically.

I believe he did have a night choice, but because of his character, he had to counter me for some reason. I don't think him being a squire means that he didn't have a night choice. Maybe he had to assist the baron in mounting his horse, and that means he noticed the loose strap and therefore saved his life. I don't see how you can speculate that any character "makes sense" as a vanilla. a chancellor sounds like he should be able to do somehting neat, but that is not the case. a cook sounds pretty plain to me, but everyone easily made a coorellation to some special role that he could have been.

[sekinj]

I obviously have a different perspective than all of you, because I am the one who recieved this information I'm using. So far, except for OGML, everything else has fallen in line with my information. Two factors contribute to why I still trust my knowledge 1) I really don't think we can speculate about night choices based on the name of a character. A squire has just as much chance of having a night action as say a herald or some other non-standard character. 2) OGML's nickname was Capricous which means he was erratic. For me, that justifies why he was lying. Everyone's nickname (or lack thereof) is part of their character and is important in context.

@mar: please explain the "craplogic" behind that.

[sekinj]

But the nicknames DO correllate to each person's role and character traits. That's not speculation. Everyone take a look at your own nickname, or the known nicknames, and tell me that is wrong.

However, the names of the roles, like chancellor or squire, cannot in themselves indicate a night choice or not. Each of us has a different role name, there arn't just 3 townies and 2 scum. These are not your regular roles, people. Look at the trouble we had with BeastMaster. How does anyone know for sure the beastnaster character had a night action?? Maybe we have a Butler role, but what night action would that character have? my point is, we cannot speculate about the night choices with only the role name to go on. The role name in itself gives us next to no information, while the

nickname

is significant.

I, for one, am convinced that all other characters (including OGML, exluding me) have or had a night choice.

[sekinj]

Your nickname is in no way descriptive of your character?

Well, I know mine is and thadmiral's was, so I still believe that ogml's was.

[sekinj]

Ok, here's why this is craplogic. It's pretty much what Rage and thinktank said. Just because someone was given a flavor (in this case, our nicknames), it doesn't mean they are going to play that way. You cannot in any way, shape, or form assume that OGML was playing the way he did because he was given Capricious as a nickname. I played Raj in a game; it doesn't mean I typed and thought like he does. Nicknames may be descriptive of our roles, but definitely not our playstyle.

I'm not AT ALL talking about playstyle. I'm talking about restrictions or thing he HAD to do. I myself have gotten threatening notes at night saying that if I don't do A, then I will be dead in x number of days. Sing's vote was stolen, OGML's vote was bought out. that's what I'm tlaking about!! Things in the game. Maybe he HAD to counter the first person who claimed or he would be killed anyway. weird stuff like that which fit into this game's world.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: And his nickname is an indication of a restriction, rule, or forced behavior that was on his character.

[sekinj]

No, I didn't get anything last night.

Vote count

(8 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) Gremwell – Mariyta
(1) sekinj – Rage

Not voting:

Gremwell, MafiaMann, raverblood, sekinj, Singing Librarian, thinktank

Deadline:

Thursday 4 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

For clarity: my post 372 should say 'note' singular instead of notes, because I have in fact only received one which was on N0.

[sekinj]

well are you able to send letters or correspond with the source of the info in some way?

no, I am not able to do any of that. the only thing I can do at night is wait until the thread is unlocked. I have absolutely nothing that I can do until the thread is opened again. I just wait.

[sekinj]

This is very frustrating. You guys aren't understanding me.

Your nickname is in no way descriptive of your character?

Oh it is definitely descriptive of my character, but that is not the same as how I am allowed to play the game. It's also very relative to my role-name, but I wouldn't mind giving it away. I also don’t mind claiming right here and now, but that’s not usually how things are done.

Well, that's what I mean! The nicknames are indicitive of your character.

However, the names of the roles, like chancellor or squire, cannot in themselves indicate a night choice or not. Each of us has a different role name, there arn't just 3 townies and 2 scum. These are not your regular roles, people. Look at the trouble we had with BeastMaster. How does anyone know for sure the beastnaster character had a night action?? Maybe we have a Butler role, but what night action would that character have? my point is, we cannot speculate about the night choices with only the role name to go on. The role name in itself gives us next to no information, while the nickname is significant.

Are you proposing that role names have no significance in this game? That they are a representation of nicknames, not the other way around?

I'm saying we don't have enough information to guess the night action/choice by just the role name. Unlike Townie or Mafia where we know exactly what each role does, we cannot guess what a beast master does by just the name. It's like if you were a newb to any mafia game (rl or online) and someone just said the word 'Mason'. You wouldn't have any idea what that person's night or day duties were. It is the same here, we can't tell by just the word because all of these roles are made up.
However, the nicknames on the other hand, DO tell us something! They are descriptive of our characters (not of us personally or our playstyle, just our character). And different characters may have to act a certain way at certain times because of retrictions or threats made against them. Just think about it. Already in this game we have votes taken away from people. How hard is it to believe that other things are happening that may force people to post certain things?

[sekinj]

Pbpa thinktank - words in "" are quotes, the rest is paraphrased. some are just general comments, other things are scummy. I think there is a pattern.
DAY 1
Post 2 – discourages speculating about roles
Post 4 – discourages lurking (directed at raver)
Post 5 – “scumastic post”

more analysis would be nice

Post 6 – “you really like claims don’t you.”

I was just asking for info, but one liners are not very helpful

Post 7 – misunderstands one of my clues
Post 10 – criticizes Sing for stating the obvious

(that seems much better than stating not much at all, which thinktank has done up to this point)

Summerizes thoughts on OGML and myself, says OGML seems more town. Pressures me to give more clues to prove myself
Post 11 – criticizes me for “probing”. Says I have not provided useful info. Says I should be lynched because that is the simplest solution.
Post 13 – again pressures me and OGML for more info/clues/talking in order “to decide which one is in fact lying”
Post 15 – directed at me “Giving more [info] out now would be a bad idea…”

He has been pressuring me to give out more and now suddenly he is advising I sgive out No more

Post 16 – Agrees with mafiamann that it is not necessarily true that one of either me or OGML HAVE to be scum. We could both be “somewhere in between.”

I’m not sure what somewhere in between means, but I do agree with mafiamann that it is not a black and white issue. This is was proven (to me) when OGML flipped town.

Post 17 – “Why is OMGL the best candidate”
Post 18 – Defends his posts for going along with the crowd. “I don't see why either of them would be lying because it would pretty stupid if either of them were. I'm more inclined to believe Sekinj at this point because why would someone claim so early with information that is SO easily countered.”

he contradicts himself. He says it doesn’t make sense for either of us to be lying, but that I am more believable.

Post 19 – Fos’s rage for boldly asking for more info
Post 20 – criticizes mar’s defensiveness
Post 21 – “We know definitely that one of them is lying. Figuring out which one is lying is a herculean feat in itself because it seems that even they do not know which one of them is lying. Meaning either one or both of them are scum or some of the information that they've been given is false, which is also bad for the town.”

Mar brought this up previously. This is one MAJOR flip-flop. This completely contradicts his posts 16 and 18.

Post 22 – fos’s raver for voting ogml without stating evidence
DAY 2
Post 23 – cautions against analyzing nks
Post 24 – fos’s MM for not using “fact and evidence to hunt scum.” But instead using “WIFOM and feelings”

fosing seems to be a favorite for thinktank

Post 25 – refuses to reveal character gender and directed at me states “that there is a good possibility that you’re insane”

he is male, btw

Post 26 – says OGML’s role name makes him obviously vanilla.

NO ONE is vanilla in this game! even i have special info, even though I have no night choices

Post 27 – “just as much as we can’t speculate on night choices, we can not speculate on the nicknames…”.

He was the one who started the speculation on roles. If he is saying to me that I can’t speculate on nicknames unless I am willing to speculate on roles, the opposite goes for him. If he is willing to speculate on roles, then he has to be willing to speculate on nicknames as well. However, I do believe (as I have already stated) that it is pointless to speculate on roles (because of our lack of ‘experience’ in this mafia world), but since our nicknames are just descriptions of our characters, we CAN more accuratly speculate about the nicknames.

Thinktank never answered or even commented on Mar’s point about him flip-flopping. IMO that has beent he biggest scum-tell yet in this game. I’d like to see him explain himself now.
Also, I don't understand him pressuring me and OGML for more info and then suddenly advising me to save it. Just too many flip-flops.

[sekinj]

Vote: thinktank

[sekinj]

Last day, I was being flippant between the possibility that neither of you were scum or one of you was scum. My opinion kept changing because you acted quite scummy at times and then not so scummy at times, so it was very difficult to get a read with no actual information.

Flippant = not a good explanation. Flip-flopping = good explanation.

Can you quote where I'm acting scummy and where I'm not? As far as I know I've been doing the same thing throughout the whole game, which is sharing tid-bits of info, and ask for tid-bits of info. I can understand how that can be intrepreted as scummy, but I can't understand how that is scummy sometimes and not other times.

[sekinj]

[quote="thinktank"]
Btw, don't try to misrepresent me. I never probed you for information. I said more talk was needed between the two of you (sekinj and OMGL) which means you need to talk more and which gives more evidence not that you need to reveal more info..

So me and OGML should have jsut talked amoung ourselves? What did you want me to say if you maintain that I wasn't supposed to give any more info, but just 'talk'? Should I have let OGML know how my day was going?

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

Btw, don't try to misrepresent me. I never probed you for information. I said more talk was needed between the two of you (sekinj and OMGL) which means you need to talk more and which gives more evidence not that you need to reveal more info..

So me and OGML should have jsut talked amoung ourselves? What did you want me to say if you maintain that I wasn't supposed to give any more info, but just 'talk'? Should I have let OGML know how my day was going?

[sekinj]

I find it funny that the majority of things you've stated there are actually pro-town
actions...

Post 2 – discourages speculating about roles

Neutral

Post 4 – discourages lurking (directed at sraver)

pro-town

criticizes Sing for stating the obvious

neutral

Post 11 – criticizes me for “probing”. Says I have not provided useful info. Says I should be lynched because that is the simplest solution.

Is tryign the simplest solution REALLY protown? No, this is at best neutral

Post 15 – directed at me “Giving more [info] out now would be a bad idea…” He has been pressuring me to give out more and now suddenly he is advising I sgive out No more

yes, this DOES look protown. However, it contradicts what you have said twice before, which suddenly makes it SCUMMY

Post 19 – Fos’s rage for boldly asking for more info

just pointing out you affinity for fos's. fosing isn't scummy OR protown, just neutral

Post 20 – criticizes mar’s defensiveness

pro-town

fos’s raver for voting ogml without stating evidence

fos=neutral

DAY 2
Post 23 – cautions against analyzing nks

neutral

Post 24 – fos’s MM for not using “fact and evidence to hunt scum.” But instead using “WIFOM and feelings”

fos=neutral

refuses to reveal character gender and directed at me states “that there is a good possibility that you’re insane”he is male, btw

since everyone else had revealed, and there is more town than scum, it seems like the more protown thing to do at the moment is reveal.

I will give you the fact that I was not being very solid in my opinions day 1 regarding you and OMGL . Besides that, everything you have just said about me is pro town.

I added everything in bold. I already said at the beginning of my pbpa that some were just general comments. Most of those things are neutral and NOT pro-town.

[sekinj]

well, no that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? i think thinkank...

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

well, now that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? I think thinktank...

Fixed. (no I wasn't drunk)

[sekinj]

Gremwell: OMGUS much?

You claim everything is OMGUS. I'm going to ignore it whenever you say that from now on.

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

well, now that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? I think thinktank...

Fixed. (no I wasn't drunk)

Wait, how is that fixed? You "think thinktank"? Still doesn't make sense to me.

I think he was referring to "now", not the end. He thinks Thinktank is the play for the day.

Yes.

[sekinj]

I think either Gremwell, or MafiaMann. However, I think Rage asked Sekinj some decent questions, so I'd like the answers to those. And I'd still like an answer to my question for Thinktank.

@sekinj: Please answer Rage's question.

for the record, you need to settle down. You latch on to something Rage has said and then pester me about it twice in the same post? When rages post was less than 12 hours ago with no action between? The reason I don't like this is because it makes me look like I'm avoiding the question, which is not the case.

[sekinj]

To recap, Sekinj claims to be the only player who has no night action/choice. OhGodMyLife counterclaims, saying he has no night action. OhGodMyLife is lynched and flips Town, name and role revealed. Sekinj claims that OhGodMyLife must have had to counterclaim him because his nickname is/was 'Capricious'.

@Sekinj, is that the only reason why the Town should not lynch you right now? It seems to me that the only thing keeping you alive right now is WIFOM, that

you

presented, and now you have moved past this and are attacking thinktank.

Well, since I know my PM i think the town should not lynch because I am town. I realize that not everyone else has that insider knowledge. However, the scum out there are frothing at the mouth trying to get me lynching since they know that BOTH me and OGML are town. I really don't know what other evidence I can really present. At some point you just have to take the leap that my claim and OGML's count was not a black and white scum v town issue. Now, if it takes my lynch to prove that, then okay, but if we have two mislynches ina row AND have to continue without my info, I don't think the town can win.

I moved on to attacking someone because I know the town is not going to get anywhere if we just keep talking about me. I believe think's flip-flop was huge, and I don't buy his explanation.

[sekinj]

Ms. Cranky Pants

lol

[sekinj]

as day 1 started to come to a close I found that OMGL was probably more town out of the two of them based on the empirical evidence. Leaving that something was fishy with Sekinj. I am not convinced Sekinj is telling the truth whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Sekinj says everyone else in this game has a night action. OMGL counters and is lynched fllipping town. There is no reason whatsoever that OMGL would have lied and I don't buy this "capricous" argument that it was part of his character. It is far more likely that either Sekinj is scum or she is insane.

I agree that it would be weird for the mod to come up with a lot of information to have it be useless so logically Sekinj should be scum.. Although this line of logic is terrible because it outguesses the mod.

once again, I know I'm biased, but thinktank pushing the binary option of me being scum because OGML wasn't is SCUMMY.

[sekinj]

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

^ Understandable... But I never panic... so I can't be scum...

on a serious note, I'll look over my info again and see what else I can scrounge... the thing is that it depends on people feeding me info...

and I find it hypocritcal that you tell me to give more info, and then say the info I give isn't pro-town.

[sekinj]

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

^ Understandable... But I never panic... so I can't be scum...

Everyone does. Suck it up!

I was just kidding. settle.

and I find it hypocritcal that you tell me to give more info, and then say the info I give isn't pro-town.

That isn't hypocritical. Of course, that is if I am allowed to interpret the information and not just hang on your every word, right?

If you think my info is not pro-town, why would you want more of it?

[sekinj]

Because right now it is the only thing keeping you alive. That, and possibly your persistent attack on thinktank.

So you WANT to keep me alive? if you want to keep me alive, why are you voting me?

Do you see what I'm showing you? you are reasoning in a circle.

I will spell it out for you:
sek gives more info --> giving info is not pro-town, sek must be scum --> rage votes sek --> rage tells sek to give more info in order to not be lynched --> sek gives more info....

Now do you see how that is hypocritical?

[sekinj]

giving info is not pro-town

That's not what I'm saying at all. Allow me:

-->

sekinj gives out information to prove role

-->

OhGodMyLife counterclaims information, and Rage says information benefits Scum more than Town to know

-->

OhGodMyLife is lynched, flips Town

-->

Next Day, Sekinj presents WIFOM about OhGodMyLife's role; how it could mean that he was forced to counterclaim Sekinj's information

-->

Rage votes Sekinj, saying his nickname does not designate what he can do to a player

-->

Rage asks Sekinj to present more information to prove his innocence

Is this correct?

the speculation about OGML's role is not WIFOM. It has nothing to do with what scum would or wouldn't do. I have repeatedly said that although it is impossible to PROVE it to you guys, I personally know I am town. Therefore, when OGML flipped town, the only way I know how to explain us both being town (to your guys as well as myself) is because his nickname means he must in same way be acting erraticly.
Now I'm sure most people will have their doubts about that right up until i am lynched and turn up town. I also can't just suddenly start spouting pro-town info. The information I have is meaningless without participation. For example, I simply know that that there are 3 female characters and the rest are male. Night was female, and Rage revealed he was female early on without much pressure. Then later raver said he was the last female. Now... the hell if I know what we should DO with that information, but there it is.

[sekinj]

I think trying to lynch sekinj at this point is like beating a dead horse. It almost feels like Rage might be pushing a bit too hard.

I'd like to hear from some of the quieter folks.

Thank you! I agree! I'm tired of talking about me. I feel like I am just repeating myself over and over again.

[sekinj]

I started a pbpa of mafiamann last week, but abandoned it because looking at him in isolation I didn't find as many scummy things as I thought I would. I agree that he is suspicious, but I like the case on thinktank. I don't think his flip-flopping can be marked up to 'flipancy' as he claims. I don't think MM deciding to claim gender along with the rest fo the town is as strong. in fact another scummy thing I think think did was to NOT claim gender alogn with the rest of the town.

[sekinj]

Mod: Can I please get a prod on Rage, thinktank, Gremwell, and raverblood? The most recent any of them has posted is Monday

There is a long weekend coming up, and it would be great to hear something from everyone before then.

[sekinj]

I'm also here, right now I don't see the case on Mafiamann but I'll look back thriugh and see if anything grabs me

I don't think there really is one. It's a feeling more than anything.

I agree with this feeling. But I went after thinktank because I couldn't find anything substantial on MM. Maybe he has been scummy since then.

[sekinj]

think: scummy as illustrated
MM: seems scummy, but I can't find anything substantial. will have to gather more evidence before I go after him. seems that there are better fish to fry today.
rage: seems pro-town, but could be showing false delimmas. doesn't seem willing to give credence to the fact that this is a unique game with unique roles and restrictions. unwilling to be convinced
raver: too lurky, not many original ideas
grem: pretty good thoughts, but not enough posting
Sing: good ideas for the most part, would like to see more posting
Mar: seems to have good balance of suspicion and speculation

[sekinj]

@mar: what do you mean by 'enchanted'?

[sekinj]

@grem: I'd like to see you post a case on someone anyway

[sekinj]

@grem: whine, whine, whine. Yeah, I just got lazy, and after my 125th post I just decided that OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD PARTICIPATE TOO. wow, how silly of me.

@all: I'd like to see a case against someone for everyone! a lot of people have promised to go back and look at MM, well, let's see see what you've come up with!

just to put things in perspective here is the current post count from everyone:

Sing – 16
raver – 22
Think - 31
Grem – 33
MM – 39
Rage – 59
Mar – 63
sekinj – 127

[sekinj]

for the record quantity of posts =/= quality posting

You have neither, so I guess you don't need to worry. Where's the case on me? I'm waiting to be ripped to shreds.

qft

[sekinj]

for the record quantity of posts =/= quality posting

You have neither, so I guess you don't need to worry. Where's the case on me? I'm waiting to be ripped to shreds.

qft

And then you wonder why you have double everyone else's posts, but what does this say? absolutely nothing. How does it help the town or even really relate to the game? It dosen't.

Oh My Goodness. Please whine some more. I will go ahead and do mar the favor of saying OMGUS, much? You are attacking my post content because I am asking you to particpate and post a case on someone?

[sekinj]

@rage: by the way, I didn't bring up the possibility of me being insane. someone else brought it up on Day 1 and then again I was asked about it on Day 2. I at first agreed that it might be a possibility, but then discarded it.

[sekinj]

vote ogml

though I think the jester role would fit well in "the barons court"

I'm torn here. It comes across as scum trying to seem like they're helping the town by placing the hammer vote. But it could also easily be lazy town just deciding to go with the flow at the end of the day. Rage, Sekinj, anything thoughts on this?

Note: We have about 26 hours from this post.

I already commented in detail about that post. I'll try to find it.

[sekinj]

Umm... Because he didn't come off as scummy...

be that as it may, wouldn't a mislynch be preferable to a no lynch?

lynching townies as opposed to not lynching townies? is that a question you really need an answer to..

With the current theme set-up the question posed by grem is ligit. a mislynch means a townie dies, and scum gets closer to winning. A no lynch has dire but unknown consequences for the town.

@think: Which is preferable? by your play you would rather no lynch.

[sekinj]

I was asking you to reconsider saying Gremwell's vote wasn't hasty, yet saying we were close to a deadline. From what I can tell, his reasoning was:

vote ogml

though I think the jester role would fit well in "the barons court"

Basically, that's saying nothing about his vote for OhGodMyLife, and considering the option of a Jester role in the game. His vote is iffy to me, because he realizes the option of a Jester yet hammers, without reason, a Townie. You giving him wiggle room isn't helping.

I think it IS saying something about his vote for OGML. In context it says, "I'm voting for OGML in order to avoid a no lynch, however, it is quite possible that he is a jester or some other role that IS NOT scum, yet is still lying for some reason." Or that's how I read it anyway. I'll give him all the wiggling room he wants for that post. I stand by my opinion that it was a very pro-town action.

found it.

[sekinj]

Speculation: How many scum do you think we have in this game?

I'm wondering if scum are intentionally trying to spread out the vote, or not vote in order to get us to a no lynch.

[sekinj]

[sekinj]

Come on guys, how many times do I have to tell you that my info depends on YOUR info. I know random bits of info, not on anyone in particular, but on everyone as a group.

Start claiming and I can start spilling info.

[sekinj]

@rage: I think Grem's whole post was his case on me... my early claim, and my "doing nothing" with my info.

I think Grem is just going for the easy target.

[sekinj]

Gremwell, I think the majority of us have moved past the "binary lynch" option. Sekinj HAS been scumhunting, so that argument is just false. I believe she's been asking for too much info from the town, but that comes off as more of a newer player mistake (I used to think everyone should just spill their guts, too).

Definitely need some input from Raver and PimHel (welcome to the game, by the way). And thinktank.

Sekinj, I don't think you should keep asking for info. You should use the information you have and just watch. Gather tidbits based on the things people say and use that. Flat out asking for information is suspicious and dangerous. No sense giving the scum more information than they need.

I am asking for info in THIS game because of my role. Please stop judging me by my join date. It's not a "new player mistake". I don't do that in my other games. Also, I keep asking for info because people being calling me scummy for not USING my info... so I keep having to point out that i can't use my info until I get info from other people. Priming the pump in necessary.

[sekinj]

Okay! looks like we are agreed! Let's claim!

first name: Jeeves
nick name: Sage
last name: Templeton
role name: Chancellor

[sekinj]

Hello Cass. I'm glad you've come. we need some help...

[sekinj]

Cass: Where are your quarters? and Do you have a nickname?


Hey Guys!! This is why OGML AND I didn't have a night action (as cass alluded too)!! 10 players DO, but there are 12 players total not 11. We just didn't know that one players was going to be introduced in the middle.

[sekinj]

How bout we just lynch Gremwell.

Or think...

(this is a double entendre)

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) Gremwell - Mariyta
(1) raverblood - Rage

Not voting:

Cass, Gremwell, MafiaMann, PimHel, raverblood, sekinj, thinktank

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

Thanks for pointing that out think! I meant to be voting you right now.

Vote: thinktank

[sekinj]

@grem: what do you think of me now, after Cass's input?

I'd be interested to know the answer to that from anyone else as well.

[sekinj]

People I find scummy:
Gremwell. Very obvious reasons.
Raverblood. fairly obvious reasons.
Sekinj. True. She has scum hunted, but I still haven't forgotten that her information was misguided. Leading to the fact that shes either insane or she's scum. Either way its pretty bad for the town..

... did you happen to notice that we had a new player? a player that has confirmed all of my information? aree we playing the same game?

[sekinj]

Where is everyone?? Come on! We have a new player, plus another player doing very scummy things.... several players wanted to claim... now everyone has disapeared.

[sekinj]

@grem: I agree that Cass is not confirmed town by any means. I'm just glad that simply his presence confirms my information, unless he were to claim that he doesn't ahve a night choice...

[sekinj]

@ph: I'm not sure I understand your post since night ended over a week ago, but I'm glad you've arrived nonetheless.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: Well, I guess not

more than

a week ago, but

almost

a week ago...

[sekinj]

i don't understand those ensorcel and dispels.... they didn't seem to effect me even thought they were addressed at me....

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) raverblood - Rage
(1) thinktank - sekinj

Not voting:

Cass, Gremwell, MafiaMann, Mariyta, PimHel, raverblood, thinktank

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

@MM: why do you have to make sure whoever you do it to doesn't get lynched?

[sekinj]

oh... so, what did you learn from me the night after you did it?

[sekinj]

MM: please stop making us pull teeth. What happened, that you know of, the night after you ensorceled me?

[sekinj]

I also think we should take a close look at Cass. The rules said there would be negative consequences for the town on a no-lynch and then Cass arrives...
This also implies that sekinj has not been cleared by Cass's information.

I think plan for Cass was in motion way before the town failed to lynch yesterday. The negative consequences of the no lynch are probably things that won't be clear until the end of the game. Some of the pro-town roles were either denied information or actions during the night, or fed misinformation.

My predecessor was pressed for a claim, I'm not sure how much to divulge. I feel safe revealing that I am a female character played by a male.

THis is not new. everyone except think claimed their gender.

[sekinj]

I don't anyone to claim roles (except for me because I felt is was necessary to avoid death), but nickname (or lack thereof), first name and last name would be great from anyone...

[sekinj]

Then do it!! this goes for everyone who has said they are fine with name claiming!

[sekinj]

Then do it!! this goes for everyone who has said they are fine with name claiming!

We wait until everyone has had their say... or until the ones who actually participate have their say. Those who just sit back and do nothing really can't complain.

are you saying that I'm just sitting back and doing nothing?

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) raverblood - Rage
(1) thinktank - sekinj

Not voting:

Cass, Gremwell, MafiaMann, Mariyta, PimHel, raverblood, thinktank

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

Why are you so eager to get names, sekinj?

as I've said about a MILLION times, I need info to bounce off the stuff I know. Plus, nothing else is happening in this game, everyone just keeps posting that their willing to claim if someone else claims first, or if everyone else okays it, well woopy, put your money where your mouth is.

[sekinj]

Why are you so eager to get names, sekinj?

as I've said about a MILLION times, I need info to bounce off the stuff I know. Plus, nothing else is happening in this game, everyone just keeps posting that their willing to claim if someone else claims first,

or if everyone else okays it

, well woopy, put your money where your mouth is.

Underlined = scummy to be against

Anyways, Sekinj, do you have any name-related information other than that "b" thing you brought up early Day 1?

not necessarily, if you are waiting for everyone to okay your actions, then by default you are waiting for scum to okay your actions along with the town.

[sekinj]

Anyways, Sekinj, do you have any name-related information other than that "b" thing you brought up early Day 1?

Yes, I have other information that MAY be helpful if people share names.

[sekinj]

Then do it!! this goes for everyone who has said they are fine with name claiming!

We wait until everyone has had their say... or until the ones who actually participate have their say. Those who just sit back and do nothing really can't complain.

are you saying that I'm just sitting back and doing nothing?

Where on earth did you get that this was about you? You know who hasn't participated, as does everyone else here. I was talking to those people, not you.

Looks like we're doing a name claim. I'm Frederic “Honor” Evergreen.

well, that's why i asked before I went off on you you quoted me and then said that, so it looked like you were talking about me. I thought maybe you hadn't noticed that I had already given my name.

[sekinj]

Anyways, Sekinj, do you have any name-related information other than that "b" thing you brought up early Day 1?

Yes, I have other information that MAY be helpful if people share names.

By the way, if this information will out town power roles, please do NOT share it.

it won't.

[sekinj]

Sekinj - I notice that there are no names beginning with b. How do you explain that?

I would say that means that no-one is guarenteed town.

[sekinj]

im not telling

Then you're back on my scum list. You're only hurting the town now.

I dont' think this is necessarily true. It could be something that would make him an easy target or something... I just wish he'd communicate that in a way that sounds less like a three year old.

[sekinj]

I acknowledge the existance of the scribe (because I was given an anon letter to do so).

I also don't like qwint's response. I was not responsible for OGML's death. I was not even voting him.

THanks MM

[sekinj]

@q: No, you are wrong. I did not agree with the OGML lynch, did not push for it, did not vote for him, and continually asked people to NOT look at it as a me or him option.

[sekinj]

Why is OMGL the best candidate?

It looks like most people think the best lynch today would either be OGML or me. People are leaning toward believing me and lynching OGML because I have provided more detailed information and OGML has just said, "she's lying, I'm vanilla townie".

I think this post represents a little more antagonistic position than you represent.

notice I did not say that

I

thought the best lynch would be ogml? and it is just the facts that I provided detailed info while OGML just said he was vanilla.
If that is the most antagonistic quote you can come up with, I think I've made my point.

[sekinj]

not sure what to make of this right now.

sekinj, was the bit about the B in the name true? or were you laying a trap?

Yes, I was laying a trap. I didn't want to admit it though, because now I can't lay any more.

[sekinj]

How much information does she really have? Is it worth the town not ever knowing if she gets nk'd?

Yet you are trying to lynch me??

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(2) qwints - Mariyta, Rage
(1) thinktank - sekinj
(1) sekinj - qwints

Not voting:

Cass, Gremwell, MafiaMann, PimHel, thinktank

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

not sure what to make of this right now.

sekinj, was the bit about the B in the name true? or were you laying a trap?

Yes, I was laying a trap. I didn't want to admit it though, because now I can't lay any more.

You laid a trap on the first page of the game? or somewhere close to it? laying traps in general is a scummy move, laying them that early and causing confusion that early is a very bad town tactic, if you are indeed town..

Laying traps for scum is scummy?? hmm... odd, I would have not thought that...
my trap did not cause confusion.

[sekinj]

"My role information does not contradict anything Sekinj has said." How does that not confirm sekinj's information on 10 people having night actions? I guess it depends on how you interpret it, so please tell me, how did you interpret that?

Cass does not know who else has night actions. At the very most, Cass is only saying that he has a night action.

Mariyta, I believe you are town, but I think you have information that I don't. Otherwise, I don't think you would be so sure of sekinj.

You are being retarded. Cass saying he has a night action IS WHAT CONFIRMS MY INFO. That means 10 of 12 players have night actions. Which is what i said before i even knew there were 12 players.

[sekinj]

I may be naïve but I do trust and believe Rage's claim and info. I think qwuintz looks suspicious for his answers to rage's questions about letters.

I quarter in one of the mansions wings so I guessed there was another. ThAd revealed the villiage inn and Night's death revealed the guest quarters. The one I didn't know about was the stables. I would guess Cass came from the other wing of the mansion.

[sekinj]

This claim does not clear qwints for me either. I'd like to see what others think of it as well.

However-
@mar: if quintz is the baroness and you believe she is hooking up with the sorcerer, do you believe as Rage does that MM is the sorcerer? If so, why would qwints be voting him?

@MM: I don't understand how it is pro-town for you to sit back and let us speculate so drastically. If you can make things clearer in any way, please do.

@qwints: do you know what purpose it serves to move people around between quarters?

[sekinj]

@pinHel: are you still playing?

[sekinj]

This claim does not clear qwints for me either. I'd like to see what others think of it as well.

However-
@mar: if quintz is the baroness and you believe she is hooking up with the sorcerer, do you believe as Rage does that MM is the sorcerer? If so, why would qwints be voting him?

It would make quite a bit of sense for MM to be the sorcerer. Qwints is desperate at this point. Almost every scum I've seen in his situation is willing to throw their partner under the bus in a last-ditch effort. It's common scum strategy.

He is desperate enough to bus with 2 votes on him? and maybe even only 1 since he apparently has the ability to move Rage's vote to MM? This is his "last-ditch effort" before 4 other players vote him? he only claimed because enough people asked, not because he was under pressure of lynch.

FOS: Mar

[sekinj]

^ she can only do it once.

[sekinj]

I agree with the quintz lynch as well. His arguements jump around everywhere and I don't like the way he always seems to mis-read things. I had to re-convince him after everyone else was satisfied with my role/claim/info and now it seems liek he is doign the same thing to MM. I completely agree that MM wasn't answering questions at first, but this weekend he has answered everything put to him. I just don't understand this quote from q:

It sounds like you've been over-representing your power. Or maybe you're trying to downplay it now. Why haven't you done anything else since?

I have no disagreement with the last question, and MM has already answered it to my satisfaction. But I don't see what quintz is trying to get at saying MM has over-represented or is now downplaying? I don't see how that fits with MM's play so far.

Plus I really didn't like his reaction to the pressure Rage put on him.

unvote, vote: quintz

[sekinj]

maybe there is a letter stealer as well as a vote stealer...

[sekinj]

For the record, I still think think's play is very suspicious.

[sekinj]

What does QFT mean?

I thought it was Quite Fucking True... but maybe I just made that up...

[sekinj]

Cass: I know that someone feels obligated to tell lies. But that is all I know.

[sekinj]

hmm... Well, one thing seems clear, it is EITHER mafiamann OR quints. Since they are attacking each other it is not likely that they are both scum... So I'm wondering what other's opinions of that is? I've asked Mar about this before. Are people still thinking the baroness is in league with the sorcerer?

Also, how many scum are we thinking there are? If either quints or MM is one of the scum, who is the other or others?

I'm still suspicious of thinktank. also, notice how think did not have any sort of opinion on quints. Everyone else reacted to his claim, but think did not.

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(4) MafiaMann - qwints. Rage, Cass, thinktank
(3) qwints - Mariyta, MafiaMann, sekinj

Not voting:

Gremwell, PimHel

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[sekinj]

I still want Qwints gone, and am not happy with a MafiaMann lynch.

This is where I am at right now as well.

[sekinj]

A) They can both easily be scum. Scum turn on each other all the time.

but not usually without reason. and I'm talking about a theme game here. This game is very intricate. How do you think their roles relate to each other if they are both scum?

B) I think you guys are way too hung up on the mansion/palace thing. Hell, I've been thinking of the whole thing as a castle. It doesn't mean a thing.

I agree that I don't think MM's mistake was that big of a deal right now. Later on I might think differently. However, I DO think it is very important for all of us to pay MORE attention to our flavor and knowledge rather than less. Players liek MM and others need to be sure to doublecheck their PM before they post in order to get the details right. I think the difference is in the details of this theme game.

C) Both Cass and think were too eager to jump on a bandwagon without seeming as such. They're both high on my suspect list.

I am mostly suspicious of think, as I have mentioned. I've also noticed that cass seems to have quite a bit of insider knowledge. A lot of what he says or hints at seems to come right from the same book my Knowledge came from.

D) The more I think about it, the more I can believe that Cass was the town's punishment for a no lynch.

Absolutely not. I do not beleive this at all. I think that Cass was a player that all along was planned to come in at the start of Day 3. it was just coinsidence that we had a no lynch on day 2. Let's please not forget those people who CAUSED our no lynch.

E) If D is true, this is likely LyLo (I'm assuming 3 scum at this point, since that's common in a mini) and we better hope MM is scum.

I don't think d is true, but we may very be at lylo. and I'm not yet convinced MM is scum.

[sekinj]

@Sekinj: Yes, I've already posted how they could easily be related. Watch any cheesy medieval movie and you'll see the queen/baroness/other token powerful female teamed up with the magician/sorcerer/enchanter/what-have-you. It's a very common theme, and very easy to do.

just give me some theories about why they would be trying to buss each other right now.

[sekinj]

@

Sekinj

and

Mariyta

, how did you receive your "letters"?

I got mine in a PM. It was very clear that it was a letter delivered to me.

Cass: I know that someone feels obligated to tell lies. But that is all I know.

What exactly was this in response to?

the post directly before. Cass asked quints if he thought anyone would be lying.

[sekinj]

@cass: Why are you voting MM over quintz? Do you believe quintz's claim? Do you think commaning votes is a power given to the town? Do you think MM is the sorcerer and is in league with quintz?

[sekinj]

@Sekinj: Yes, I've already posted how they could easily be related. Watch any cheesy medieval movie and you'll see the queen/baroness/other token powerful female teamed up with the magician/sorcerer/enchanter/what-have-you. It's a very common theme, and very easy to do.

just give me some theories about why they would be trying to buss each other right now.

Scum do it all the time. When they get in a tight spot, they pick the scummiest of their teammates and throw them under the bus. It makes them seem like town because "scum wouldn't go after their own", and they get to live another day.

I just don't agree that either of them were in a tight enough spot to turn on each other like that in this game.

[sekinj]

@Sekinj: Yes, I've already posted how they could easily be related. Watch any cheesy medieval movie and you'll see the queen/baroness/other token powerful female teamed up with the magician/sorcerer/enchanter/what-have-you. It's a very common theme, and very easy to do.

just give me some theories about why they would be trying to buss each other right now.

Scum do it all the time. When they get in a tight spot, they pick the scummiest of their teammates and throw them under the bus. It makes them seem like town because "scum wouldn't go after their own", and they get to live another day.

I just don't agree that either of them were in a tight enough spot to turn on each other like that in this game.

That's fine. I feel they were. qwints may not have had the votes, but the pressure and overwhelming accusation was there.

But, why was MM supposedly bussing quintz at that point?

[sekinj]

@Sekinj: Yes, I've already posted how they could easily be related. Watch any cheesy medieval movie and you'll see the queen/baroness/other token powerful female teamed up with the magician/sorcerer/enchanter/what-have-you. It's a very common theme, and very easy to do.

just give me some theories about why they would be trying to buss each other right now.

Scum do it all the time. When they get in a tight spot, they pick the scummiest of their teammates and throw them under the bus. It makes them seem like town because "scum wouldn't go after their own", and they get to live another day.

I just don't agree that either of them were in a tight enough spot to turn on each other like that in this game.

That's fine. I feel they were. qwints may not have had the votes, but the pressure and overwhelming accusation was there.

But, why was MM supposedly bussing quintz at that point?

He wasn't. I think qwints was bussing MM.

You are making zero sense. MM was voting quintz before quints was voting MM. So why would MM be bussing quintz? MM was Not desperate and not under suspicion, and neither was quintz at that point. You are reasoning in circles and not making any sense. I think you are looking for an excuse to lynch. You are looking either very scummy and tryign to get away with shallow reasoing, or you are a very lazy town. It doesn't make sense that quintz AND mm are scum. Please prove otherwise.

major fos: mar

[sekinj]

FOS MAR!!!

She used crap logic, couldn't defend it, and then hammered MM. I'm changing that to a vote once everyone weighs in.

[sekinj]

@quints: what do you have to say about your double vote on MM?


@mar: do you have any else to say to explain your reasoning yesterday about quintz "bussing" MM? Your claim is believeable, and I can understand hammering to avoid a no-lynch... and you are probably right about grem and Pim not voting... so I'll give you that one, even though i would have rather waited til closer to deadline...

unfos: mar...

*scowls* but I'd still like you to explain yourself a little better regarding MM...

Do we know yet if we have 2 or 3 scum? I think the scum are quintz and thinktank.

FOS: ThinkTank & quintz

not voting until rage and cass add thoughts.

[sekinj]

One other thing. Guessing at the number of scum and then saying you'll vote when everyone has had a chance to say something is scummy. You don't know the number of scum, or you do and you just want to get someone lynched fast, but you are willing to put a vote down nonetheless? Plus, you haven't come out with any information since the trap and the info that got what-we-assume-to-be a Vanilla Townie lynched, so I would especially like to hear your opinion on a mass-claim.

Also, why Qwints and Thinktank?

Have you not noticed that I have thoguht thinktank was scum for the past 2 game days? and I agreed with the logic yesterday that quintz is scum (notice my vote was on him). I think the baroness could well be the scum, I just didn't agree that he/she was in league with MM.

I threw my fos on mar because I was very frustrated with the way yesterday ended. I didn't feel like she explained herself as all. SHe thought MM and quintz were bussing each other, but that didn't make sense. I kept pointing that out to her and she never gave an answer, and then she hammered MM. so, yes, I was very angry with her for the whole three rl days that the thread was locked.

but yea, I beleive you are town, I *think* cass is town, and for now I believe Mar's claim. so that leave quintz, think, and sweatyguy. Of those three I think quintz and think are scum.

[sekinj]

I already told you. I didn't realize MM had a vote on qwints that early on. Based on what I knew/believed at the time, it made perfect sense. Now, obviously, it doesn't.

WHAT DO YOU THINK I WAS POINTING OUT TO YOU!!?!?! WHy Did you not go and Look!!! dang you!!!

[sekinj]

1) Qwintz is scum.

Vote: Qwintz

2) Yes I am the emissary.
3) No, I am not a vanilla. I defintely have an active nightchoice.
4) I'm not strongly against claiming, but I think we can wait until tomorrow. We've got our scum for the day.
5) Mafiamann as a

town

sorcerer means the mod is

evil

6) Qwintz is telling the truth about my change of location, in case this is relevant to anyone.
7) Rage, I got your letter.

I agree about quintz (however, I think think is scum as well and would rather lynch him today). I wish you hadn't claimed, since you will now die tonight and we will lose. Now I have no problem with anyone else claiming. Not knowing the emissary was the only reason I didn't want ppl to claim.
Yes, I was moved to the stables as well.

[sekinj]

and you are probably right about grem and Pim not voting...

What do you mean by that?

I mean they were not being active and probably would not have voted. However, it STILL would have been better to wait.

[sekinj]

The last piece of information I have is pertinant to the claims. So I will share it and when everyone claims.

[sekinj]

Since everyone has night-choices (except Cass and Sekinj)

It was OGML and I that didn't have night choices. Cass's addition just makes it 12 players so it makes sense that 10 of 12 didn't have night choices rather than 10 of 11.

[sekinj]

@mar: Ok. I'm done. I just hope we can still win.

Why do you not trust Cass's claim?