[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Guardian]

I've been meaning to post this and now I finally have time to:

My twist on Vengeful, self-titled.

Guardian

The same setup as vengeful, but with a few significant and fun changes.

1)One godfather is randomly selected by the mod, and he selects one of the townies to be his "guardian". In essence, this game is vengeful with a mafia recruiter instead of a godfather and goon, and a night 0 start. Still no night kills though.
2)The mafia loses even if the godfather is vengeful killed.
3)This is a no reveal game - the mod reveals roles only when the godfather is killed or when the mafia wins. The goon, if killed, is revealed as a vanilla townie. Being the guardian is his objective, not part of his role, in a sense.
4)Thusly, and this is the really interesting part, even if the goon is lynched day one, he gets a vengeful kill.

[Guardian]

5)People can talk while the lynchee is deciding his kill; it's like day 1.5. He is still limited to killing one of the three who voted for him, though.

Anyone care to discuss this? I am open to suggestions on it, and would in fact appreciate them.

[Guardian]

Guardian Vengeful would be an interesting Theme game.

Why would it not qualify for being a normal game? It seems that a mafia recruiter would be allowed under the description of normal, and isn't Vengeful itself qualified as a normal game? Or no?

[Guardian]

Also, I just thought of, inspired by YB (<3) and TCS's Near Vanilla

Confirmation Mafia

3 Mafia
2 Doctors
7 Townies

I was thinking 6 townies, but maybe 7 is more appropriate. I like it because while it loses TCS's element of role blocking, it adds the element that if both docs claim and a mafia doesn't counterclaim successfully, they can cross night protect and the town would have two unnightkillable townies. But it would only work if the town was convinced at the claiming!

[Guardian]

@Guardian: Confirmation Mafia is not a good setup because if the docs claim and believe each other, the mafia can't win if they get down to 1 goon. If you subscribe to a "scum don't have an inherent endgaming ability" policy, then if mafia lose even one goon, the best they can do is draw.

Imo, the point of the setup is for a scum to fakeclaim convincingly and get a doc lynched or night killed.
Even if the fakeclaim fails and the mafia loses a goon, the mafia can win if they pick off townies and get the docs to mislynch on lylo. I would definitely award 2-2 win to the mafia.

Would a 4-2-6 setup work better? No, imo.

I think Confirmation Mafia could indeed work?

[Guardian]

Thesp, respond to my question about "guardian" Vengeful please?

[Guardian]

second bird c9

kelly is on a :goodposting: streak.

That indeed seems quite elegant.

[Guardian]

Primate, what's with the townie letters? Huhwhat?

[Guardian]

Fire and Ice v2?

2 Fire Mafia
2 Ice Mafia
1 Temperature normalizer (doc)
6 Normal temperature townies

If the mafia cross kill, the kill is negated. If the mafia both target the same townie, the kill is negated.

[Guardian]

I don't see why Fire and Ice v1 and v2 can't be run. Thesp, if you schedule Fire and Ice v2 so I end up modding it... <3 forever

Lol how the setup of mine that has received the best reception so far is the setup that I modified/stole...

One thing: For fire and ice v2, the doc cannot self target and would be NK able. Also, when I speak of cross killing, how should that work exactly?

What I meant is that Fire is immune to NK, and Ice is immune to NK - but I think everyone interpreted it as being that if Fire targets Ice AND Ice targets Fire, both kills are negated.

I would be fine with either, and the second one actually seems really cool

[Guardian]

Mr. Flay - you did interpret that part correctly, and it should not be messed with!

I

also

originally intended to have that Fire can't kill Ice and vice versa. Should that be there? If not, would it make sense to have: if Fire targets Ice AND Ice targets Fire, neither dies.

[Guardian]

Indeed.

Very Vanilla Mafia
3x Mafia
7x Vanilla
1x Watcher


Thoughts?

[Guardian]

Sweet, I am definitely /in, I am Irish AND Italian .

[Guardian]

Thanks for commenting! The town can only mislynch twice in such a setup, that is true...

Maybe add a doctor? If the doc ever protects that would give the town another mislynch, and the watcher could see who killed the doc and the doc could protect the watcher.

Another possibility would be to swap out a townie for a Miller or two, to give the town claimable roles.

3x Mafia
1x Watcher
2x Miller
5x Townie

or

3x Mafia
1x Watcher
1x Miller
1x Pub Owner (vanilla, but claimable)
5x Townie

or

3x Mafia
1x Watcher
1x Doctor
7x Townie

[Guardian]

Lol at adding "millers" with no cops.

Claimable roles = .

I don't like watcher+doctor because if both claim, scum can't really kill them. They can kill the doctor if they really want to, but they have to pick somebody to sacrifice to do it.

If the doc claims, the scum can trade the most scummy scum for both power roles, OR just get away with killing the doc.

Doc claims. Scum kills doc, watcher finds scum. Watcher claims, scum lynched. Watcher killed. 1 scum for BOTH town power roles is not a bad deal. I am starting to really like the setup:

Very Vanilla

3 Mafia
1 Watcher
1 Doc
7 Townies

[Guardian]

Fire and Ice v2 Final

2 Fire Mafia
2 Ice Mafia
1 Temperature normalizer (doc)
7 Normal temperature townies

If both mafia target the same townie, then no one dies.
If this happens, or if the doc protects successfully, steam is said to be rising off of the players...

The first two times that Ice targets Fire

and

Fire targets Ice, the kills are negated.
If this happens, steam is said to be raising off of the players...

Good deal? Y'all would play be /in?

[Guardian]

I won't say

who

the steam is rising from. That would be silly .

[Guardian]

Fire and Ice v2 Final

...

If both mafia target the same townie, then no one dies.
If this happens, or if the doc protects successfully, steam is said to be rising off of the players...

The first two times that Ice targets Fire

and

Fire targets Ice, the kills are negated.
If this happens, steam is said to be raising off of the players...

I don't see why any announcement must be made by the mod - in fact, I think the mod should remain silent as to why there was no kill at night. (No need to give it away!)

(shrug) I just don't see the advantage to the mod giving the town that kind of information, is all. Better if the town has to figure out for themselves what might have happened at night.

QFT.

OK, not gonna disagree with both of you . Do you guys agree with the 2 crosskill voided limit? That is my last worry on the setup; other than that it seems really good!

[Guardian]

If the setup is otherwise good and this is the last problem, it could easily work as such:


Mafia 1: You are mafia with XXX and YYY. You have priority for sending in a nightkill as long as you are a live.

Mafia 2: You are mafia with WWW and YYY. You have priority for sending in a nightkill as long as you are alive and Mafia 2 is dead. You may send in a backup target if Mafia 1 is alive, but his kill will override your choice.

Mafia 3: You are mafia with WWW and XXX. You have priority for sending in a nightkill only if both of your partners are dead. You may send in a backup target if they are alive, but their choices will override your choice.


One thing I wonder about this is if the mafia numbers would be revealed upon lynch...? I'd favor a yes, I think.

[Guardian]

I don't like watcher+doctor because if both claim, scum can't really kill them. They can kill the doctor if they really want to, but they have to pick somebody to sacrifice to do it.

If the doc claims, the scum can trade the most scummy scum for both power roles, OR just get away with killing the doc.

Doc claims. Scum kills doc, watcher finds scum. Watcher claims, scum lynched. Watcher killed. 1 scum for BOTH town power roles is not a bad deal. I am starting to really like the setup:

Very Vanilla

3 Mafia
1 Watcher
1 Doc
7 Townies

Eh?

Also, I think Yogurt Mafia has promise. I like the idea of the scum not being able to talk at night.

[Guardian]

Second Godfather c9

I think it has potential to be

the

newbie game setup. It has all the normal power roles for players to get used to. The goon also learns of counterclaiming .

[Guardian]

I think this setup lends itself to the goon fake claiming or countering either the doc or the cop if they claim d1 or especially d2 after a mislynch day one.

[Guardian]

Townie = confirmed

[Guardian]

Oh yeah? Well, I counterclaim townie! Howzabout that, huh?

Ok, so is your partner going to leave two confirmed docs, or two confirmed cops?

[Guardian]

Nominate: Crush A

I like games where the town has a 30-40 shot of winning, they should be able to balance that to 50 percent on good play. I don't really mind that the lyncher only has a 25% shot of winning it should be harder for him since he is one player, the town is 4. Very interesting setup .

[Guardian]

Troj, I want to hear more on the 12 player setup, specifics and such.

Also, people, thoughts on Pooky's Newbie v2? I think it may have been intended as a joke, but it might be interesting to play .

[Guardian]

One thought before dinner - maybe if RB is recruited, a vanilla becomes a spy automatically?

This is interesting, I shall ponder it .

[Guardian]

Third Big love.

It is great, as is.

Adding a mason pair (or 2x?) instead of the doc and a townie would make things very interesting though - having mason be a claimable thing for the lovers would be . Randomly two of the masons/lovers would have to be mafia. Eh, great as is, really.

[Guardian]

The following should probably NOT be run through the open queue. I was thinking of running it as soon as I'm allowed, though, and I figured posting it here was just as good as if not better than creating it's own thread.

I present to you....

Worse Idea Mafia

3 Mafia
14?(flexible number) Townies

Nightless. There is no lynching.

Instead, anyone can daykill at anytime, with

kill: PLAYERNAME

. However, you may not kill each day before X posts are made by other players, where X is the number of kills you have made, squared. So, day 2, the player who killed day one cannot kill before someone else posts one post. If that player then kills again, they may not kill before others post four posts.

The game starts with a deadline of days equal to the number of townies (14 days here). Each new game-day, the deadline is decreased by one day. At the end of a day, if no kill has happened, a random townie will be modkilled.

It seems like a greatly fun idea, no !?

[Guardian]

Yeah, that was the one problem with it. Maybe if no one posts for a period of X days, day ends and townie dies? Or is the idea just too fundamentally flawed?

[Guardian]

First kill is 0 posts before you. Second is 1. Third is 4. Fourth is 9. etc.

[Guardian]

And just in case there was a misunderstanding - it is 1 of ANY posts, not 1 of the person you want to kill.

So it really isn't that bad. I think this would be fun/funny. Is 14 an appropriate number of townies?

[Guardian]

Thesp - you want me out, too? Just wondering, since it is open, but probably not well suited to the open queue.

[Guardian]

Much appreciated, whenever you get the chance Thesp. And I didn't think from the beginning that it would be appropriate for the open queue -- it is just too wacky.

Thanks for the interest, though, Albert!

I think I will search for someone to mod it, and have me co-mod it -- that way the modding rules would not be broken, and I could help run the game .

This is, of course, after the setup discussion that I hope takes place takes place, and we reach a conclusion on the optimal tweaking of the setup. I am going to try and move somewhat quickly on this, though .

[Guardian]

Bah. yellowbounder, what do you like about Arsonist?

yellowbounder's response?:

I find notable the doc who only protects against the SK.

A doc for mafia and *other* for the SK is interesting .

[Guardian]

That setup is cute, but not cool. Hiya Aimee .

[Guardian]

CA9653

One of the following six setups has been randomly chosen for use in this game:

* 3 Scum, 7 Townies, 1 Cop, 1 Doc
* 3 Scum, 7 Townies, 1 Cop, 1 Vig
* 3 Scum, 7 Townies, 1 Cop, 1 Serial Killer
* 3 Scum, 7 Townies, 1 Doc, 1 Vig
* 3 Scum, 7 Townies, 1 Doc, 1 Serial Killer
* 3 Scum, 7 Townies, 1 Vig, 1 Serial Killer

---

This could definitely be run through the open queue (if Mert approves). I stole its shamelessly from his opening post in his recently opened mini normal: viewtopic.php?t=5733

[Guardian]

In a similar vein, a few mini "normals" I have played in have been anything but. Thus, I recommend this:

Open Normal

Mafia roles:
1 Mafia Godfather
2 Mafia Goons

*Mafia have a command order of 1-2-3, the top of the command order has authority for sending in the kill, and must send in "Mafia Member X Kills Player Y". Or No Kill, theoretically.

1 Anti-Town Role Randomly selected among:
Serial Killer* no power-ups
Survivor
Cult Recruiter* dies upon trying to recruit mafia, guilty to any cops
Townie that knows who the mafia are and wins with mafia. Mafia don't know of his existence.

2 OR 3 Pro-Town Roles Randomly selected among:
Cop
Doctor
Vigilante
Tracker
Watcher
Roleblocker
A confirmed MASON Pair


---

I am sure the balance and roles need a bit of tweaking, but I like the idea muchly, and would like comments.

[Guardian]

I like countdown. Maybe two weeks is a better timeframe, but I really like that setup.

nominate: open countdown

Pooky, others -- any comments on the normal setups I mentioned/came up with?

[Guardian]

I'd imagine the SK would be allowed to leave "standing" orders on automatic so that the mod kills player X as soon as kill availability is up or something like that.

The SK kill time obviously would determine the pace of the game so I can see that you could make it longer or shorter depending on the speed of the game you want.

Yeah. 14 days, this should enter the queue.

@Guardian, interesting but I generally don't like random anti-town roles such as Survivor/SK/Cult Leader because they have such awful odds .

Ok, would the idea be good without the random anti-town role? I personally would love to play in such a setup. Often mini-normals are too far from normal .

[Guardian]

Hey! Listen! Open Normal fits the bill for scum claiming power roles, it is balanced, and overall needs to be discussed more .

Don't rely on the cop is interesting, but maybe tweaked more? Town seems sad.

Disabler is an interesting concept, but *what Jdodge said*.

[Guardian]

The masons can be deleted, they are just a suggestion -- the idea is to randomly pick from a pool of pro-town roles, so some are left over (but which ones?) for the scum to fake claim.

it is basically trying to emulate a mini normal setup, but one that can be randomized and used over and over. comments plz.

[Guardian]

xyzzy, i like 6-player nightless. I would modify it very slightly, thusly:

7 player vengeful godfather thing:
2 mafia (both vengeful godfather style)
5 town

day start. then night if no mafia lynched and a mafia NK. then day.

[Guardian]

Basically it is the same game with slightly better odds for scum, and non-nightless -- they get a kill after day one if they survive.

5/7 * 3/5 = 3/7 odds for scum seems fairer for scum, and NK WIFOM gets interesting.

[Guardian]

Well, by asking about 1 godfather 2 goons you are assuming a cop...

Assuming that we aren't assuming a cop.

I think that b,c,a "require" more power roles.

1-time kill protection in c, with no other changes, would probably bump it up past b, seeing as an SK lynch in b can make it just like a...


helped?

[Guardian]

Comments on "Open Normal" post 907, how to improve it, if it is bad, whatever, would be appreciated.

[Guardian]

Comments on "Open Normal" post 907, how to improve it, if it is bad, whatever, would be appreciated.

Huggles offered as reward.



Thesp, I definitely agree about having the mafia be lynchers of the disabler, in a sense.

I think the doc should be one shot, indeed.


All three setups are awesome. Pick one randomly, lol.

[Guardian]

yeah 3 and 4 have promise, mostly 4.

[Guardian]

If the mafia fake being tree-stumps, are they revealed as mafia? IF so, why would a townie ever

not

tree-stump if they were at lynch -1 with someone intending to vote?

Why did your post not include a comment on post 907?

[Guardian]

How does fake tree stumping work? Explain. This setup is intriguing.

edit: and comment on my setup .

[Guardian]

nominate: dark knight

ROFL.

[Guardian]

Comments on "Open Normal" post 907, how to improve it, if it is bad, whatever, would be appreciated.

Huggles offered as reward.

I like Adel's setup. It is not balanced. It *is* fun.

[Guardian]

Second both.

[Guardian]

F & E, C9 + 2, and Tree Stump mafia need to go to the queue sometime soon. I would love to mod Tree Stump mafia, so that next? I would really, really, really <3 you Thesp? =)

[Guardian]

It is kind of like smalltown.

[Guardian]

Thesp's pretty sweet.

[Guardian]

SEAG mafia

3x mafia.
1x 1-shot vig.
1x SEAG -- NK immune PGO (vanilla PM).
7x vanilla.

[Guardian]

What does ULAP mean?

[Guardian]

It might be Southeast Asian Gardener... I think Adel mentioned it...

Yeah -- it is an UNNKable paranoid gun owner.

[Guardian]

Take out the mafia framer, for one.

[Guardian]

No lynch, I assume. :X

[Guardian]

ebwop: This setup is academically interesting.

[Guardian]

huh?

>.>
<.<

[Guardian]

I want to see Baby Too Much scum run. it was fun to play in. I like the really mini setups.

[Guardian]

Nominate Baby Too Much Scum

[Guardian]

---

[Guardian]

anti nom texas justice....
me and my buddies played horribly.

What the hell does how much you suck at mafia have to do with whether or not a setup should be nominated?

nothing, obv.....

[Guardian]

omg... dayless!

IH, I love you. At least temporarily.

I am going to mod a dayless game in the future(!)

[Guardian]

wow, paranoid scum mafia is messed.
what happens when there is one scum one sk left in the group ?

it seems kinda messed..

[Guardian]

I would add a 'Miller' to overload nightless and run it.

Miller only for claim ability, obv...

[Guardian]

nominate Mini Love

Nominate AITP

[Guardian]

nominate Mini Love

Nominate AITP

[Guardian]

Cop Mafia.
4 Scum
3 Cops (all sane)
8 Townies

alternatively:
1 gf
3 scum
3 cops (all sane)
8 townies, one of which is a miller.

alternatively:
4 scum
2 sane cops
1 insane cop (same role PM as sane cop)
8 townies

I prefer the second, I think, but I thought I'd mention them all. Being a cop is cool.

[Guardian]

Cop Mafia.
4 Scum
3 Cops (all sane)
8 Townies

alternatively:
1 gf
3 scum
3 cops (all sane)
8 townies, one of which is a miller.

alternatively:
4 scum
2 sane cops
1 insane cop (same role PM as sane cop)
8 townies

I prefer the second, I think, but I thought I'd mention them all. Being a cop is cool.

no love?

[Guardian]

Breakout

2 scum
16 town

Scum begins with 1 night kill per night. This number goes up by 1 every day. This number is halved (and rounded up) if scum is killed.

Haven't checked win odds on this, but this seems probably fairer.

this, but with 3 scum 16 town.

[Guardian]

Just try claiming mafia?

Two miller cops
Three scum
Seven townies

nominate.

[Guardian]

2.01
3 mafia goons. One MAY send a kill, Another MAY send a role-block.
1 cop
1 tracker
7 townies

I like this better.. but suffice it to say, cop is NOT overpowered.

[Guardian]

queen dies, false queen wins, you mean?

[Guardian]

lol Adel.

Massclaim... scum lose...

4 scum lovers would at least be a mafia game.

[Guardian]

LDS Mafia

aka lynch the polygamists mafia

4 scum lovers
8 townie lovers

All players are lovers.

One set of lovers is a set of three, and is scum.

One set of lovers is a set of four. They are scum.

No other roles are used.

The scum do not have a nk.

Nightless.

This would be a short game, and I think that would be its appeal.

I approve of this setup.

[Guardian]

Contagion Open

2 Mafia, 7 Town

Nightless, first day is normal, from that point on the lynchee becomes kingmaker for the next period, and dies thereafter, like in Skruffs' game.

Support this

nominate: Kingmaker Mini Open (11 players):

2 mafia
8 townies
1 kingmaker (sends list of two players to be king; king decides on execution; if kingmaker dies, random townie becomes kingmaker)

kingmaker cannot make self king, kingmaker cannot put a player on the list who was king the previous day unless no other options are possible,
day start

Support this

This setup is called Loser Mafia.

The Setup

2 Mafia Goons
11 Townies

Special Rules:
Mafia Nightkills are compulsory. The mafia cannot kill a mafia goon.
Lynches are compulsory.

Support this

Nominate Vengeful for the mod's in the queue
Nominate Texas Justice for the trigger happy

Support this

Fifth Friends and Enemies and Enemies

Nominate: Mini Nightless

:
2 day-talking mafia
5 townies
days only.

==============

I have a craving for simple, elegant setups.

[Guardian]

Love in the Palace

One King
One Queen
Ten False Queens(Know Who the King is)

The King can execuete players at any time.
A Majority Vote May Lynch a Player.

The King may choose to sleep with a player.

If that player is the Queen, the King and Queen win and the False Queens Lose.

If that player is not the Queen, the King and Queen lose and the False Queens win.

If the Queen dies, The False Queens win.
IF the King dies, everyone loses.

>.>
<.<

You saw nothing.

Tree Stump Semi-Reveal

3 Scum Trees
10 Town Trees

Daystart.

Alignment is not revealed when a player stumps.
Any player can stump at any time.
Scum can permanently remove a stump from the game upon being lynched.

nominate these

[Guardian]

The mechanic is very cool -- lots of such roles in one game isn't.

[Guardian]

Even though it is definitely not normal, I would highly recommend you bending the rules and allowing Loser Mafia to be run. It is easily understandable for a new mod to run and looks like loads and loads of fun.

Kingmaker I'd say definitely counts as normal, but I selfishly hope you start it AFTER my v/la June16-June30 ^_^

[Guardian]

Simple: Make kills & lynches mandatory while chosen is alive. If mafia miss NK mafia dies, if town misses lynch chosen dies.

[Guardian]

Page 100

[Guardian]

I would roll for a vig first, if there is a vig, automatically NO sk.

3 killing roles in a 12 player game is just too much.

I would then roll for RB, then Doc, then Cop, and prevent there from ever being all 4 town power roles.

Maybe auto give the towna cop if there are no other power roles too.

Otherwise I like it.

[Guardian]

SuperSaint 5 -- SS5

2 mafia
2 SuperSaints (kill whomever hammers them)
1 Townie

[Guardian]

SuperSaint 5 -- SS5

2 mafia
2 SuperSaints (kill whomever hammers them)
1 Townie

Nightless

Fixd

Oh. Obv nightless! :)

[Guardian]

Probably broken by mass claim then.

EDIT: In favor of town.

Explain how that would go. I thought about it a bit and I don't see it as possible. Mass claim if everyone true claims the worst feasible strategy I can think of is 4 claimed SS 1 townie, the town has to lynch mafia correctly twice.

I think the town can improve upon this by fake-claiming, and thus the mafia could fake claim as well.

Oh, no let's make mafia hammer me! I'm not really a townie I'm a SS!

Oh no, we can't let the second most scummy player hammer me, I'm not an SS, I'm really the townie!

[Guardian]

Third Carbon-14

Good work Adel.

fourth

---

Lover Mafia

2 Mafia Lovers
4 Townies

Nightless

[Guardian]

Lover Mafia v2

:
2 lover mafia
5 townies

With a night where they kill a townie.

---

ps: This should be the new newbie setup
pps: damn im a baller.

[Guardian]

Guardian's Special Lover Mafia

(GSLM)

2 mafia
5 townies

With night phase(s). Lynches and night kills are mandatory.

If a townie is lynched day 1, the mafia become lovers night 1.

---

OMG im so baller. damn.

[Guardian]

Lover Mafia v2:
2 lover mafia
5 townies

With a night where they kill a townie.

---

ps: This should be the new newbie setup
pps: damn im a baller.

Polygamist Mafia 2.0

Can we avoid making 2.0 until 1.0 runs and can be critiqued effectively? :roll:

You can't stop genius.

Also, and in seriousness: v2 and GSLM have significant reasons why they might be better than the original. There is no reason to forego trying them even if the original turns out to be bad -- thus there is no reason to wait.

if only you were a little bit taller...

I'm pretty happy at 6'0". Taller =/= good for me. I'm sick of bumping my head into the doorways in my 100-year old housing as it is.

[Guardian]

o btw:

nominate

polygamist mafia. its where lover mafia came from and its pretty baller.

nomiate

C9 - 2 cops, 1 player 50% chance of doc/townie, 1 player 50% chance of cop/townie, 3 townie

nominate

Vengeful +1 -- 1 godfather, 1 goon, 1 lyncher, 3 townies one of whom is lynchee.

GUN C9

2 mafia
6 townies who must target someone (or choose to target no one) every night.

One of the townies is a one shot vig but doesn't know it. The rest do nothing with their targeting.

^dannnng yo.

[Guardian]

Unbalanced

3 Mafia Goons
1 unNK able SK
8 Townies

[Guardian]

Unbalanced

3 Mafia Goons
1 unNK able SK
8 Townies

Note: the title refers to the mental instability of the SK.