[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Sir Tornado]

I third F & E

[ac1983fan]

Here's a semi open, 20 player setup I was thinking of:

cop mafia

4 cops (of various and unsaid sanities)
4 "Special Investigators" (trackers),
4 "Volunteer cops" (one-shot vigs),
4 Jailers.
Of those 16 players, 4 are randomly selected as mafia goons.
Than, the last four:
Sheriff: Automated tracker that recieves a list of who the cops, trackers and jailers target
Donut/Coffee guy (roleblocker [drugs coffee])
2 Townies.
Of those 4, 1 is randomly selected as the mafia godfather.

thoughts?

[xyzzy]

Here's a semi open, 20 player setup I was thinking of:

cop mafia

4 cops (of various and unsaid sanities)
4 "Special Investigators" (trackers),
4 "Volunteer cops" (one-shot vigs),
4 Jailers.
Of those 16 players, 4 are randomly selected as mafia goons.
Than, the last four:
Sheriff: Automated tracker that recieves a list of who the cops, trackers and jailers target
Donut/Coffee guy (roleblocker [drugs coffee])
2 Townies.
Of those 4, 1 is randomly selected as the mafia godfather.

thoughts?

Wait, do they keep their powers? For instance, would a mafia donut guy be a mafia roleblocker godfather, and would a vig become a goon with an additional nightkill?

If so, this is probably REALLY unbalanced.

(Actually, it may even be unbalanced if they don't...)

[xyzzy]

Thesp: Thanks for the questions, and for the list mod 411.

Body Snatchers Mafia

Proposed Final Revision

Open Setup, Closed Reveal

3 Goons (Should 1 be a Godfather?)
1 Cop
1 Paranoid Cop
7 Townies

Night Start

I think I really like this one.

If I were scum in this setup, I would just claim having investigated the dead townie as scum at the start of day 2.

The paranoid cop would assume that they aren't paranoid, and they'd lead the town to lynch at least one townie.

I'm not sure that possibility outweighs the benefits. Otherwise, pretty nifty setup.

[xyzzy]

Argh, triple post. Oh well.

2-2-lynch Mafia

(yes, horrible name)
1 SK
1 Jester
1 Lyncher (target is townie)
1 Survivor
8 Townies

The catch here is that at all points in the game, it is only 2 to lynch. Which makes the job for the Lyncher and Jester a lot easier. To counteract this, the town will elect a Mayor (and elect a new one if the first dies). The Mayor can veto one lynch per day (but not his own). If the Mayor vetoes the lynch of the Jester or the Lynchee, the Jester/Lyncher loses and leaves the game.

The other problem with the setup is that there are many sides who can win together. In fact, only the SK has a win condition which flies straight into that of any other group. The amount of possible winners should probably be limited to two or three (groups).

My big issue with this is that you're calling it mafia, without a mafia. Informed

individuals

is fine, as long as you maintain the informed

minority

.

I don't really see this as winnable for the town, because they're forced to find people who have no connections - only motives, and those are easily disguisable.

[xyzzy]

EBWOP: (argh, quadruple post now! I suck!)

I thought of something after hitting enter:

The thing that makes the SK difficult is that he has to work alone.

The setup is completely broken, because as long as the 2 killing roles are quick enough, a mass claim can result in an SK/jester/lyncher win simply by being faster at voting than everyone else.

Result? The SK can completely REMOVE his lone-ness and work with two people other people - not a hard thing to do if a quick, easy win is involved.

Two things I would do to the setup: 1)replace the lyncher and his target with two goons and 2)only allow one team or individual to win.

[Zindaras]

My big issue with this is that you're calling it mafia, without a mafia. Informed

individuals

is fine, as long as you maintain the informed

minority

.

I don't really see this as winnable for the town, because they're forced to find people who have no connections - only motives, and those are easily disguisable.

Town does not rely on connections to catch scum. According to your statements here, SKs can only be stopped by claims or by Mafia killing them.

EBWOP: (argh, quadruple post now! I suck!)

I thought of something after hitting enter:

The thing that makes the SK difficult is that he has to work alone.

The setup is completely broken, because as long as the 2 killing roles are quick enough, a mass claim can result in an SK/jester/lyncher win simply by being faster at voting than everyone else.

Result? The SK can completely REMOVE his lone-ness and work with two people other people - not a hard thing to do if a quick, easy win is involved.

Two things I would do to the setup: 1)replace the lyncher and his target with two goons and 2)only allow one team or individual to win.

That is the exact same thing I thought of, which is why I added the Mayor to the mix. I think that significantly reduces the chances of this being a successful strategy.

I may not have been 100% clear on how the Mayor works: once a Lynch is reached, the thread is closed and the Mayor gets 48 hours to decide whether or not he'll veto the lynch.

Edit: The same principle used in Consulmaker (once a lynch is vetoed, it cannot simply be made again) goes up here.

[xyzzy]

My big issue with this is that you're calling it mafia, without a mafia. Informed

individuals

is fine, as long as you maintain the informed

minority

.

I don't really see this as winnable for the town, because they're forced to find people who have no connections - only motives, and those are easily disguisable.

Town does not rely on connections to catch scum. According to your statements here, SKs can only be stopped by claims or by Mafia killing them.

EBWOP: (argh, quadruple post now! I suck!)

I thought of something after hitting enter:

The thing that makes the SK difficult is that he has to work alone.

The setup is completely broken, because as long as the 2 killing roles are quick enough, a mass claim can result in an SK/jester/lyncher win simply by being faster at voting than everyone else.

Result? The SK can completely REMOVE his lone-ness and work with two people other people - not a hard thing to do if a quick, easy win is involved.

Two things I would do to the setup: 1)replace the lyncher and his target with two goons and 2)only allow one team or individual to win.

That is the exact same thing I thought of, which is why I added the Mayor to the mix. I think that significantly reduces the chances of this being a successful strategy.

I may not have been 100% clear on how the Mayor works: once a Lynch is reached, the thread is closed and the Mayor gets 48 hours to decide whether or not he'll veto the lynch.

Edit: The same principle used in Consulmaker (once a lynch is vetoed, it cannot simply be made again) goes up here.

Wait, can the lynch not EVER be made again, or just that day?

If the former, this setup is even more broken since either the jester or lyncher could get a guaranteed loss.

If the latter, the same dilemma still applies.

[Zindaras]

Wait, can the lynch not EVER be made again, or just that day?

If the former, this setup is even more broken since either the jester or lyncher could get a guaranteed loss.

If the latter, the same dilemma still applies.

Just that day. As said in my original post, if a Lynchee or Jester lynch is vetoed, the Lyncher/Jester in question automatically loses.

And, yes, this makes it a lot more difficult for the Jester/Lyncher. However, seeing how they have a very easy time in a game like this, I think it balances things out. A nightkill on them is quite unlikely, and the Town does need something to be able to deal with them.

[xyzzy]

I don't think that any setup which can result in a living party who is unable to win is a good setup.

If the game continues and they're allowed to live, all they'll cause is total havoc, because a player who can't win has no incentive not to screw the other players over.

Get rid of the auto-lose, get rid of the lyncher get rid of the possibility of multiple winniing teams, and add a mafia, then it will be a good setup.

[Zindaras]

I don't think that any setup which can result in a living party who is unable to win is a good setup.

If the game continues and they're allowed to live, all they'll cause is total havoc, because a player who can't win has no incentive not to screw the other players over.

Get rid of the auto-lose, get rid of the lyncher get rid of the possibility of multiple winniing teams, and add a mafia, then it will be a good setup.

A player who has lost the game will be gone, just like a player who has won the game. The moment a player has lost or won the game, they simply get out of there.

Adding a Mafia only allows them to speedlynch on their own when the SK is dead and they have the Mayor position.

[xyzzy]

A player who has lost the game will be gone, just like a player who has won the game. The moment a player has lost or won the game, they simply get out of there.

Adding a Mafia only allows them to speedlynch on their own when the SK is dead and they have the Mayor position.

On the first paragraph... hmm, I'm still not that pleased with the idea of them just losing for interference after attaining their goal.

But with my proposed version, there is no incentive for any claiming whatsoever, so the mafia is likely to be NK'd before they can ever try something like that.

[ac1983fan]

Here's a semi open, 20 player setup I was thinking of:

cop mafia

4 cops (of various and unsaid sanities)
4 "Special Investigators" (trackers),
4 "Volunteer cops" (one-shot vigs),
4 Jailers.
Of those 16 players, 4 are randomly selected as mafia goons.
Than, the last four:
Sheriff: Automated tracker that recieves a list of who the cops, trackers and jailers target
Donut/Coffee guy (roleblocker [drugs coffee])
2 Townies.
Of those 4, 1 is randomly selected as the mafia godfather.

thoughts?

Wait, do they keep their powers? For instance, would a mafia donut guy be a mafia roleblocker godfather, and would a vig become a goon with an additional nightkill?

If so, this is probably REALLY unbalanced.

(Actually, it may even be unbalanced if they don't...)

I would think they would keep their powers... thats why I was careful to have only one shot vigs... although a godfather could end up with the roleblocking powers, the odds of that are only 1/4 compared to 1/2 odds of being plain. And anyways, the one-shot vig kill is spent if the target is protected or the user is roleblocked...

[Zindaras]

On the first paragraph... hmm, I'm still not that pleased with the idea of them just losing for interference after attaining their goal.

The main problem I see is that it would be a correct town strategy to veto one lynch a day, therefore making life very difficult for the Jester/Lyncher.

But with my proposed version, there is no incentive for any claiming whatsoever, so the mafia is likely to be NK'd before they can ever try something like that.

I do not really understand this.

[ac1983fan]

I thought of a way to make the game more balanced.

cop mafia version 2.0

4 cops (of various and unsaid sanities)
4 "Special Investigators" (trackers),
4 "Volunteer cops" (one-shot vigs),
4 Jailers.
Of those 16 players, 4 are randomly selected as mafia goons.
Than, the last four:
Sheriff: Automated tracker that recieves a list of who the cops, trackers and jailers target
Donut/Coffee guy (roleblocker [drugs coffee])
Survivor
Townie
Of those 4, 1 is randomly selected as the mafia godfather.
And, last but not least:
Priest: A doc who can't vote

[xyzzy]

3 Mafia

3 SKs
3 Mafia A
3 Mafia B
3 Cop
3*(3+3)=18 Townies

SKs know who each other are and may communicate at night.

The only viable strategy for the SKs is to work together, because otherwise they just end up dying really early on.

Obviously the numbers are gimicky, but it's just the idea of several SKs who must collaborate. So if these numbers suck, tell me kthxbai.

[Adel]

3 Mafia

3 SKs
3 Mafia A
3 Mafia B
3 Cop
3*(3+3)=18 Townies

SKs know who each other are and may communicate at night.

The only viable strategy for the SKs is to work together, because otherwise they just end up dying really early on.

Obviously the numbers are gimicky, but it's just the idea of several SKs who must collaborate. So if these numbers suck, tell me kthxbai.

5 NK's night 1. 30 players.
If an SK is facing lynch what stops him from outing the other SKs to save his own skin? Giving each Sk a post restriction to prevent that is one answer, but most people won't find that a good solution.

I really like the idea of people with different win conditions being forced to compete and cooperate with each other.

Your idea inspired this setup:

Big Sick Love

Player 1 SK - Lovers with Player 8
Player 2 SK - Lovers with Player 3
Player 3 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 2
Player 4 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 5
Player 5 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 4
Player 6 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 7
Player 7 Doctor - Lovers with Player 6
Player 8 Doctor - Lovers with Player 1
Player 9 Doctor - Lovers with Player 10
Player 10 Townie - Lovers with Player 9
Player 11 Townie - Lovers with Player 12
Player 12 Townie - Lovers with Player 11

Day Start.

Lovers die together, if one dies the other instantly dies as well from suicide. Doctor protection cannot prevent suicide.

Each pair of lovers shares the special win condition "

If you and your lover make up two of the last three players left alive, you win together, and all other players lose

"

Lovers are not aware of each other's role and alignment.

Lovers can communicate at night by PM. Lovers and Mafia are not allowed to communicate before the start of the game.

[NabakovNabakov]

I could see that game quickly collapsing. 2 SK's and 2 Scum groups equals 4 possible kills. If the doctors aren't sucessful, and the killers don't target both lovers in a pair, you're looking at 8 possible deaths in a 12 player game (in addition to the 2 caused by the D1 lynch).

Now, it's likely that not quite so many people would die, but I would say within 2 days, you have one lucky pair of lovers emerging dazed and confused from the mess. I think it would be basically impossible for any conventional win (especially SK). As such, you would get lovers who tell each other their role and function as 6, two-person teams to be the last one standing. An interesting concept, but unstable.

Another game that could collapse quickly:

Dominoes Mafia

12 players. Scum are players 2, 7, and 10. Players 1, 6, and 12 are roadblocks. Doc is player 8.

If at any time a player is killed, that death is relayed down the chain of players and everybody dies until it comes to a roadblock. When a roadblock stops a chain, they are not killed, but if a roadblock is killed, they still spawn a new chain. The positions of the powerroles are up for discussion, I just placed them by dead-reckoning.

[Guardian]

F & E, C9 + 2, and Tree Stump mafia need to go to the queue sometime soon. I would love to mod Tree Stump mafia, so that next? I would really, really, really <3 you Thesp? =)

[Adel]

What if the SKs didn't die with their lover, like all of the other lovers do?
What if docs could prevent lover suicide?

[NabakovNabakov]

That would definitely cut down on the random violence. Doc's protecting lover suicide will ensure that at least 3 people make it to D2, and that players might eventually become untied from their lover (SK disconnect works towards that too). It would be fun to watch an SK outed because his lover's dead so he has nobody to claim with.

[Adel]

Would you mind making a revision if you can see any other improvements? I'm off for the night.

Big Sick Love

revision 1

Player 1 SK - Lovers with Player 8
Player 2 SK - Lovers with Player 3
Player 3 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 2
Player 4 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 5
Player 5 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 4
Player 6 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 7
Player 7 Doctor - Lovers with Player 6
Player 8 Doctor - Lovers with Player 1
Player 9 Doctor - Lovers with Player 10
Player 10 Townie - Lovers with Player 9
Player 11 Townie -

Lovers with Player 12

Player 12 Townie -

Lovers with Player 11

Day Start.

Except for Sks

, lovers die together, if one dies the other instantly dies as well from suicide. SK's never commit suicide. Doctor protection

can

prevent suicide.

Each pair of lovers shares the special win condition "

If you and your lover make up two of the last three players left alive, you win together, and all other players lose

"

Lovers are not aware of each other's role and alignment.

Lovers can communicate at night by PM. Lovers and Mafia are not allowed to communicate before the start of the game.[/quote]

[Haschel Cedricson]

My friends and I play this one in real life and it seems fairly balanced:

Mafia and Werewolves

2 Mafia
2 Werewolves
1 Cop
1 Doctor
1 Seer
1 Angel
7 Townies

The Cop can only get guilty results on Mafia, not Werewolves, and the Doctor only protects from Mafia.

The Seer can only get guilty results on Werewolves, not Mafia, and the Angel only protects from Werewolves.

[Adel]

Thesp's Favorite

4 Mafia Goons
1 Doctor
1 Nurse
1 Backup Nurse
1 Backup-Backup Nurse
4 Townies

Day Start

[Erg0]

I smell a mass claim.