Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[eldarad]

Vote Count

Gimbo (3) -

Harvey Pew, Adel, SpyreX,

Chelseafan (3) -

somestrangeflea, forbiddanlight, KNIGHT42

KNIGHT42 (1) -

Firestarter

Forbiddanlight (1) -

chenhsi

Adel (1) -

Gimbo

Not voting (3) -

MafiaSSK, Nameless, Chelseafan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

[somestrangeflea]

Why do you think flea is voting for his fellow mafia member? The only reason you think they are mafia is because they claimed.

Why should Chelseafan's vote change because you voted for him?

If you really think we are scum, why don't you vote for Gimbo, who has more votes and is closer to being lynched?

I think flea is currently voting for his fellow mafia member because the vote is him of suspicion.

False. It can be confirmed that I am voting chelseafan because a random number generator told me so.

Even at that, the reasoning makes no sense. You think I'm voting my Mafia buddy because I'm under suspicion?

1. Gimbo WIFOM, claims scum along with flea
2. Chenshi and Chelseafan quickly follow suit

That's not true. Chenshi and Chelseafan haven't claimed scum. YOU LIE.

4. People suspect of Gimbo, votes accumulate (none from the possible mafioso)

Why can none of the votes on Gimbo be from Mafia?

If flea withdraws:
A. Both are mafia
B. Flea is mafia, trying to perhaps frame chelsea
C. Is town and = worthless
If he stays
A. Mafia and dumb at the same time
B. Town and innocent thus clearing the likes of gimbo

This whole section doesn't mean anything at all, because both "Flea withdraws" and "Flea stays" have "Flea is scum" and "Flea is town" as outcomes.

Why would flea withdraw his vote if he is a town?

Because I don't think he's scum, simple.

Because if we find go through with the lynching of Chelseafan, and he is innocent, I will thus reveal my partner leaving us with an easy win!!!

You assume we trust you...

'm just rather confused at the plan that's all.

It proves nothing from what I can see.

It proves nothing, and, even working under the assumption that everything KNIGHT says is true, I still don't know what it proves...

[Harvey Pew]

Is anyone besides knight42 NOT confused with his plan?

Knight, I think the problem is all your outcomes under "flea withdraws" are that SSF and chelseafan are either mafia or town. There is no definitive outcome to the vote movements, especially as you state you are not going to force a lynch your move has no credibility. Especially your "C. Is town and = worthless " - if both SSF and chelseafan are town, how is

not

voting to lynch another townie worthless?

[forbiddanlight]

Ugh...I'm gonna catch hell from him for admitting this, but I am KNIGHT42s lover. To be quite honest, I completely disagree with his plan since it DOESN'T lead to any conclusive evidence. I'm really confused as to what the hell Gimbo is trying to do, but it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Also, it was a random vote on chelsea, but my lover is voting there as well. sticking there for now as per Gimbo's page 3 instructions. I also

FoS:Nameless

for being on board for pair reveals before Gimbo's gambit, and now avoiding doing so. If I missed someone else doing this, please let me know.

[somestrangeflea]

Unvote

[Gimbo]

So Far We Have:

KNIGHT42 / forbiddanlight
somestrangeflea / Gimbo
Chelseafan / chenhsi

I say that at minimum, there are 2 scums below:

Nameless
Firestarter
SpyreX
Harvey Pew
MafiaSSK
Adel

I suspect Adel and SpyreX:

SpyreX because of his overreaction to my posts which is odd given his normally mellow temper in all the other games I'm in with him.

Adel, like I've said before, in another game, with a fellow player claiming scum in their 2nd post, and you being a scum in that game, you immediately voted the said player in a seemingly angry way after their 'claim'.

Now my question is this, how is this reaction any different from you reaction to my scum-claim?

So far, you've ignored all the questions that I've asked you.

1) You never clearly said how exactly is claiming on D1 bad.
2) I asked you a hypothetical* question on your take on the game if you were scum and you ignored it saying you didn't want to 'tutor' me.
3) You ignored the comparison I made of this game is a previous game you were in when the MoS scum-claim gambit happened.

Please address these points and don't give me answers like 'bullshit', that is very helpful, thank you.

[Harvey Pew]

I say that at minimum, there are 2 scums below:

...
Harvey Pew
...

Now that is purely unfair. To state simply that those who haven't claimed are scum is entirely specious. I have said I am in favour of a claim but, unlike your unilateral action, I have left it to my partner to decide if he agrees with me and so make the claim himself. It is unfortunate that my partner (and some others) have taken a low profile/forgotten about the game/been kidnapped by aliens/died/whatever, but to decide this makes us scum is entirely unfounded.

[Adel]

Adel, like I've said before, in another game, with a fellow player claiming scum in their 2nd post, and you being a scum in that game, you immediately voted the said player in a seemingly angry way after their 'claim'.

either your memory is bad, or you are lieing.

Link to proof or withdraw your statement.

[Gimbo]

^ No, I never said you are scum and the fact that you messed up what I wrote so it seems like I am trying to accuse you is wrong.

I am saying that given the 4 scums in this game. I do not believe that all 4 are in the claimed lovers group. In fact, in a game where there is such a huge scum group and they have to pretend to be lovers to not get caught, I'd be surprised if the scums don't try to distance themselves from others in pair-like fashion. With that said, I suspect if there must be 2 scums among the 6 unclaimed.

I don't see how I am 'accusing' anyone of anything since 2/6 and 2/6 means its really equal probability.

2 scums among the 3 lover-pair and 2 scums among the 6 unclaimed...

Your overreaction to that post has moved you up my scumdar.

[Gimbo]

EBWOP: above post is for Harvey Pew, Adel - I'll try to dig it up, but you should know what I'm talking about. also you didn't address my other questions.

[somestrangeflea]

I don't see how I am 'accusing' anyone of anything since 2/6 and 2/6 means its really equal probability.

But an equal probability scumsplit isn't a fair assumption.
It's not fair to say that, because the players have been divided into two groups, an equal number of scum are in each group, as it completely ignores the most important question: "What would scum do?" If the scum think it's better not to claim, then they won't. If they think it's better to claim, they will. You cannot treat logical decisions in the same way as random choices.

In short:
It's not fair to assume that 2 scum have claimed and 2 scum haven't because the decision to claim wasn't random.

You see what I'm trying to say?

[SpyreX]

Woo, action in this game.

First off, Knight, your plan is not thought through all the way. You've setup a situation where you think flea is scum and based on any of his actions, well, flea will be scum. I do not know what to make of it but, right now, there are more pressing matters.

Gimbo, ohh Gimbo.

SpyreX because of his overreaction to my posts which is odd given his normally mellow temper in all the other games I'm in with him.

I'm not really overreacting. i decided, before the game even started, to be more aggressive because in this setup it is obvious that multiple strong wagons will lead to the most information necessary for the town to win (I, of course, assume a Day 1 mislynch).

Now, you with that amazing scum claim, setup a situation where, if you are town, you've all but doomed the town to a loss if you survive today- the only thing you can really say is "Trust me." Well, you've played with me and know how I roll with my analysis - I dont like your plan and I really dont like how strong you've pushed it.

After that you've FoS'd everyone who didn't agree with your plan AND FoS'd people who voted for you (the latter being an OMGUS no matter how you toss it).

How, praytell, have you lost it for us if you survive today with that scumclaim? Assuming a mislynch (which is what I bet on), tomorrow based on your OWN plan it will only take 1 townie voting for you (which will happen) and then its game.

To me, you've setup a situation where the only course of action is to actually test your claim of scum. The game is not long enough to let you ride it out AND, to me, your claim of scum makes far more sense in this game if you were actually scum.

Also, as an aside:

1.) You realize that, in 76, the massclaim idea WAS started by scum?
2.) If you're going to meta-read me, you realize that in this game YOU are behaving far more differently than I am?

If my lover ever gets use of their legs again and finishes up their cigarette I expect they'll chime in soon. I'm NOT going to claim.

[Adel]

1) You never clearly said how exactly is claiming on D1 bad.

As I allready said, it will make it harder for me to catch scum.

2) I asked you a hypothetical* question on your take on the game if you were scum and you ignored it saying you didn't want to 'tutor' me.

Exactly. You asked a superior player how to play as scum under this set up. To answer it would be to tutor you.

3) You ignored the comparison I made of this game is a previous game you were in when the MoS scum-claim gambit happened.

Do you often have trouble telling a doctor-claim apart from a scum-claim? That must make this game very difficult for you.

[chenhsi]

I say that at minimum, there are 2 scums below:

...
Harvey Pew
...

Now that is purely unfair. To state simply that those who haven't claimed are scum is entirely specious. I have said I am in favour of a claim but, unlike your unilateral action, I have left it to my partner to decide if he agrees with me and so make the claim himself. It is unfortunate that my partner (and some others) have taken a low profile/forgotten about the game/been kidnapped by aliens/died/whatever, but to decide this makes us scum is entirely unfounded.

May I assume that he is Firestarter than, because he hasn't posted for 2 days and is the least active among those who have not claimed yet?

[Gimbo]

^ haha chenhsi nice.

Adel, scratch that, I read it long ago and screwed up the details in my head, apologize for that. But I still don't see HOW exactly is it more difficult to catch scum if 12 is reduced down to 6.

[somestrangeflea]

I say that at minimum, there are 2 scums below:

...
Harvey Pew
...

Now that is purely unfair. To state simply that those who haven't claimed are scum is entirely specious. I have said I am in favour of a claim but, unlike your unilateral action, I have left it to my partner to decide if he agrees with me and so make the claim himself. It is unfortunate that my partner (and some others) have taken a low profile/forgotten about the game/been kidnapped by aliens/died/whatever, but to decide this makes us scum is entirely unfounded.

May I assume that he is Firestarter than, because he hasn't posted for 2 days and is the least active among those who have not claimed yet?

Hmm. I think that's fishing...

Vote: chensi

[Adel]

^ haha chenhsi nice.

Adel, scratch that, I read it long ago and screwed up the details in my head, apologize for that. But I still don't see HOW exactly is it more difficult to catch scum if 12 is reduced down to 6.

exactly, which is one of the reasons I'm on to you. An open and honest answer from me to your "hypothetical" question would've given you a clue.

[Adel]

Adel is obvious scum, town is blind.

do you still lack any support for this, other than my vote on you?

[Adel]

Adel, like I've said before, in another game, with a fellow player claiming scum in their 2nd post, and you being a scum in that game, you immediately voted the said player in a seemingly angry way after their 'claim'.

The game he is talking about is Newbie 540.
In that game MoS (who was a townie) claimed to be the Doctor in an early posts. I responded with a double gambit. In the first level of that gambit I breadcrumbed that I believed him, but went on to posts as if I was sure he was scum. Once some of the newbies in that game started to go along with the wagon I revealed that it was not a sincere wagon, and immediatly joined MoS in persecuting the people who were on his wagon. I survived the game and won as scum.

I find it interesting that Gimbo was asking me for advice as to what scum should do in this game. This is our first game together.

In mafia 79 Gorrad was the first player to introduce the idea of a massclaim. He was scum. If Gimbo wasn't paying attention he probably would've only noticed that the later & louder proponents of that idea happened to be town.

Before this game started I told my lover that I expected scum (at least one of them) to be a loud proponent of masclaiming in this game, and I warned him not to be eager to claim.

Quote tags fixed - mod

[Firestarter]

Ok....

Action!!

..and a full re-read on the way!!!

Initial thoughts..

Knowing who's with who D1 gives town a better chance of distinguishing town from scum in their respective pairings. Hence, a better chance of winning D1.

On the flip side, a scum pair could easily coattail a townie/townie pair if he latches onto another townie, and a mislynch ensues.


I would be very much of the opinion that D1 should not be rushed, we should take our time, and properly formulate our votes on who we think are scum.

For now...

UNVOTE

[chenhsi]

I say that at minimum, there are 2 scums below:

...
Harvey Pew
...

Now that is purely unfair. To state simply that those who haven't claimed are scum is entirely specious. I have said I am in favour of a claim but, unlike your unilateral action, I have left it to my partner to decide if he agrees with me and so make the claim himself. It is unfortunate that my partner (and some others) have taken a low profile/forgotten about the game/been kidnapped by aliens/died/whatever, but to decide this makes us scum is entirely unfounded.

May I assume that he is Firestarter than, because he hasn't posted for 2 days and is the least active among those who have not claimed yet?

Hmm. I think that's fishing...

Vote: chensi

What is fishing?

[Adel]

Hmm. I think that's fishing...

Vote: chensi

What is fishing?

SSF is accusing you of trying to expose who are lovers together, despite his partner doing that repeatedly as well as trying to get everyone to claim.

Rolefishing is generally where a player tried to bait a powerrole into exposing themselves.

I see SSF making that vote as a transparent attempt to divert attention from his scumbuddy who seems hell-bent on losing this game in a most embarrassing way.

[Firestarter]

May I assume that he is Firestarter than, because he hasn't posted for 2 days and is the least active among those who have not claimed yet?

Connectivity will be low for the next 2 days guys, Ill try to get on at some point during this time.

Well done Columbo...

[Nameless]

If flea withdraws:
A. Both are mafia
B. Flea is mafia, trying to perhaps frame chelsea
C. Is town and = worthless
If he stays
A. Mafia and dumb at the same time
B. Town and innocent thus clearing the likes of gimbo

This logic is highly and obviously flawed, as others have already pointed out. To Knight, do you still honestly believe this is going to clear or damn anyone,

especially

after posting exactly how you (incorrectly) it would do so?

I also

FoS:Nameless

for being on board for pair reveals before Gimbo's gambit, and now avoiding doing so.

I supported the massclaims, but I wasn't going to start doing so while other players believed they could find the mafia easier without doing so ... Not that there's much point now that half the players have already claimed.

For what it's worth, my lover is Firestarter.

[forbiddanlight]

Ah, ok. Well, I think I understand, nameless

un FoS nameless