Mini 619 - Ramen Mafia (Over!)

[Oman]

Indeed.

Vote Muerrto

Unvote

Vote aioqwe

Bad logic, attempt the quickly, full of fail.

Muerrto, you got unlucky there, but that doctor play was SOOOOO obviously town there was no way you were going to convince me after that

[Oman]

I know that's what I mean, who doesn't protect the cop?! What were the chances? lol oh well

You got your ass wifom'd to death, it sounds

Not really, it was all about the logic of scum falseclaiming trying to convince ME.

[Oman]

Denied sthar8.

I disagree with any policy put in place like this. It makes it too easy for the scum to control us.

That said, its not like I'm being a Creamy Chicken here (GET IT, RAMEN JOKE!), I just don't want the mafia to have control.

[Oman]

Unvote Vote melikefood

Dice tags are wrong and evil, and you should be killed.

Unless you people don't know: I have a real beef with dicetags, they're basically a way for the mafia to vote and not feel frightened. The stage isn't meant to be random, its meant to be arbitrary.

[Oman]

The real math is in the numbers: wiki Numbers to see.

[Oman]

I thought he played well

Doesn't Aioqwe = kiwi?

[Oman]

Missed this earlier

Oman: Are you opposed to setting policies in general or to this one specifically? I ask because I couldn't think of a way for scum to abuse this more than the current deadline rules. I agree that a genuine concensus lynch is better, and I think it's more likely given the activity so far. I just thought it might be nice to guarantee at least a little information gain should the worst occur.

I'm opposed to policies with no felxibility or easy scum control with little town benefit.

Also, was that a name claim?

No, my name is not Creamy Chicken Ramen, it was a joke regarding me being chicken and chicken being a flavour.

Oman, I don't get the joke tho >.<

Basically: Chicken = someone frightened. Creamy Chicken = Ramen flavour.

Oman, interesting quotes =)

ORLY!?!

I kid, that doens't set off any scum alarms....yet

[Oman]

Yeah, its the first explaination, I'm not exactly a young homosexual male (1/3).


The real abuse is that the situations you're talking about are 2 votes here 3 votes here, easy for the mafia to tip the balance towards someone or away from one of their own.

[Oman]

Why not just chicken? Cause "Chicken" is the slangterm. I needed to add something more to make it a Ramen joke, otherwise, it would've just been chicken.

Its the same as the Slang term "Beef" it means "argument or displeasure with" as in "I have a beef with you". But Beef is also a Ramen flavour. But just saying beef isn't the joke, you'd have to add something to it to directly reference Ramen.

[Oman]

Dusagree with strife.

[Oman]

Lynch all liars is a flawed strategy in and of itself.

[Oman]

I like strife for town right now. He's got the right probing look going on, no he's not throwing suspicion on others, he's just scumhunting.

Kiwi has my suspicion for the same reason as was already mentioned, and he is the best spot for number 2

Unvote vote Aiquowe

[Oman]

I disagree with "Getting us out of random by making yourself look scum is bad" I feel that its more "Getting us out of random REGARDLESS of the fact you look scummy".

You understand? Looking scummy is an unfortunate byproduct, not a goal to be acheived.


My problem with LAL (lynch all liars) is that it assumes that protown players do not have a reason to lie, and that lieing is immediatly anti-town, neither of which are true.

I have (and will continue to) lied several times as town, and to the towns benefit. The other problem with LAL is that it is essentially a policy in that lynch

all

liars allows for no wiggle room. Look at the intent of the lie, the reasons, and observe whether or not that is scummy, not the fact that it is not the truth.

[Oman]

No you're right, but I doubt he was truly doing it intentionally.

The point is to not be afraid.

[Oman]

Kiwi has my suspicion for the same reason as was already mentioned, and he is the best spot for number 2

Unvote vote Aiquowe

I'm not exactly sure I understand this. Your unvote/vote puts me in the number 1 spot, so I'm not number 2? If you think I'm your number 2 suspicion, why not vote your number 1? Or do you mean something else?

My 2nd wagon. Wagon no 2

[Oman]

Wicked OP, I don't get it tho.... >.< (hah, filler XD)

For those who want to know:

In PEGBAM (A mini normal) I played an SK who was NK immune but not Investigation Immune (note: this is also where my title came from). Flameaxe asked me for flavour so that he didn't have to write it. I suggested I interrogate a guy tied to a chaior! And then Bam was all "BETTER IDEA!" And it was the ramen idea and then shit happend and finnaly something happened.

I forgot what we were talking about.

[Oman]

What system is it on?

[Oman]

Food saying Darla was the first to mention dice when Oman was is fishy. Not sure what it means exactly but weird no one got any suspiscion of Oman out of that, just food. Why did food omit him?

Something LoudmouthLee taught me: Where is the scum benefit in something so easily checkable? How does it help his scumteam. Even if I am his scumpartner, that is hardly going to be used as a cornerstone for my lynch, so there is no benfit to hide it.

Strife is obv town in pretty much any game I've been with him and so far he's always been town.

Many? And any tells?

This post sticks out to me right now. It looks like you want the game to get moving, but don't actually want to make any concrete statements. Cagey much?

Best. Post. So. Far.

This man is town.

Unvote Kiwi

This wagon has built too fast on nothing for him to be scum.

Just to check that:

Mod: can we get a vote count please.

[Oman]

Shrug, scum sometimes slip up. I just thought it was interesting he omitted you. Now granted, in my last game newbie town did that same thing, but excusing it because of that is ridiculous. He hasn't really given a reason for it yet either.

Food?

Interesting or scummy?

[Oman]

I disagree that townies have to be more careful about what they type...scum so have soemthing to hide.

[Oman]

Unvote Vote Muerrto

I find it incredulous that you acutally believe that he could be scummy after a townie did it in LYLO and you accept that it could be town.

[Oman]

I disagree that townies have to be more careful about what they type...scum so have soemthing to hide.

So you think when a townie makes a slip and diverts attention onto them instead of at the scum, that's ok?

Townies also have to pay attention to what they say otherwise they derail the real scumhunting.

Firstly: So not their top priority. Scumhunting > Looking town.

Secondly: Don't tell me that a townie derailing scumhunting is worse than a scum being caught out by a slip.

[Oman]

1. Yes, but priorities.

2. I don't but nice loading there. I'm basically saying that I think this. I believe I said "think". So don't make this something its not.

3. Strawman, you don't get that answered. Its not worth my time.

[Oman]

I mentioned it, that's scummy?

Untrue

I've never seen you play like this and it's confusing.

Doesn't this tell you anything? Da da, la, la di da.

[Oman]

Bandwagon grew faster than I'd expect scumwagon to.

However, too many people point fingers without voting for it to look clean.

Muerrto: These aren't my cop tells you're picking up on this time

[Oman]

Muerrto understands my stance on mafia philosophy, he's played with me before and knows that I don't do things without a reason.

Mafia isn't an overt mental masturbation for me, but I would like to point out that I'm smarter than soft-claiming page 7 (even though, as per usual, I've dropped a ton of crumbs as to my role, and ironically, the post to Muerrto wasn't one).

Note: we're not encoding them. We're talking about something you don't understand. The difference is that what we're doing is not anti-town at all. Unless you believe it to be, in which case I would love to hear that.

Now, one thing I do love is WIFOM, so me just mentioning the cop tells that Muerrto got me on last time makes for a nice WIFOM situation. Townies can ignore it, it has no bearing on you, its merely banter. But the scum need to consider the possibility that I've been getting doc tells from muerrto (or similar) and am trying to let him know to protect me.

Then again, I could be a searching mason out looking for my partner, or I could already know my partner, and we might have an investigation between us, or possibly my partner is a tracker.

You see strife, if you're town, you can ignore all of that, because it doesn't affect the daygame, which is how you and me interact (unless of course, you're scum).

Aiowqe's bandwagon had a reason for it

Lets observe those reasons...go on, take a look. They're terrible reasons.

Muerrto's right about Oman's awkward playing here, yet by the end of the conversation they seem to be buddied up

Yeah, cause we're buddies. We've played a lot together, and he's a good bloke.

If either of you are townies I suggest you stop the encoded messages immediately.

Final Question for this post:

Is "encoding" messages between two players like this inherently anti-town? If not, why do you disapprove? If so, explain how and whether you think that makes one, or both of us scum?

[Oman]

Reread the thread.

unvote, vote: sthart8

Primarily vibes, although Oman is becoming a close second in that category. If anyone has questions about either of these vibes, I can probably scrounge up the posts that did it.
The "communication" between Oman and Muerrto, I find, is minor at best, however, although now that it has been mentioned, I've made a note to keep an eye on them. At the level it's at now, though, I don't find it very suspicious.

Yep, I want reasons for both. at 7 pages you should have more than 'Vibes"

[Oman]

ow are we supposed to know that what you're doing is pro-town?

No. Its irrelevant to the game.

Case in point. If you and windkirby are both town, you've struck him with paranoia and distracted him from trying to find scum.

Windkirby, I love you dearly, please don't take this badly but:

Thats not my problem, nor my fault. If a player is distracted by small simple things, then if its not me, it'll be something else.

[Oman]

Because its relevant to our relationship as people.

I am informed, about things that aren't alignments in the game. Where, in my banter with Muerrto, do I say anything about alignments that aren't my own.

More to the point, if we were scumbuddies, why the hell would we do this in thread?!

[Oman]

Yes Muerrto, I agree, I may have been wrong. He's not saying much anymore.

[Oman]

Yes, you should probably say it just in case there is any confusion.

WIFOM much?

My biggest problem with WIFOM is that everyone misuses it. WIFOM only applies when there is an equal benefit. Basically, there is greater benefit to me and muerrto staying hidden as scumbuddies and only makjing cursory attacks on eachother than there is in us buddying up to project a townie look (through WIFOM anyway).

That is: you're using circular WIFOM logic to make something WIFOM out of nothing.

Beyond_Birthday and Muerrto both have something to say now.

[Oman]

No, I wasn't testing Muerrto, he picked up on something, but I think he got it wrong which is why I want to hear what it is now.

I play strangely sometimes, its part of my meta.

Oh and finally, I have encoded several things into especially my early messages, but they are, as you will see when they need be revealed, that that is pro-town.

[Oman]

Strife: Mason claims are incredibly dangerous, but regardless, if we were masons we'd save it for night and talk then, wouldn't we.

"I always do it" is not an excuse to do anti-town things.

Good thing it wasn't Anti-town.

[Oman]

He unvotes kiwi saying there is nothing on him, when there are quite a few people who have givin valid reasons to suspect him as scum.

I disliked them, I thought they were pointless.

Muerrto questions Oman about this, but Oman ignores it, so Oman care to elaborate on your vote for Muerrto?

No, actually. It was a throwaway vote. Had no real plan in mind this time.

Unvote

. I'd forgotten about it.

Oman, will you go back and answer the questions to you that you ignored from before?

Yeah, sure, think I just missed them though. Note though, that the following post was not "fluff" nor was most of it in response or to "counter" strife.

"Sort of" being, what about Food's bandwagon? Page 2, 4 votes from using dice to random vote? If you think townie-wagons grow faster than scum-wagons, you must think it's because there is scum on them. Why haven't you invested much interested into the members of said wagon?

Because I don't think that the members on it will give much. I took a look at them and decided it was a much more reasonable and a much more logical strategy to focus on other things which were more reliable. You see, newbies often wagon hard as town or scum, so its less reliable.

[Oman]

Vibes are more often than not a subconscious reading of tells. Newbies have a terrible gut because they have only the most basic tells.

Once they do determine the tells they often stop refering to "gut" and more to tells.

That being said, I still get gut feelings.

[Oman]

Lesson 1 for new people: Don't worry that someone puts ONE vote on you. Had I left Oman alone his gambit to see who would leap onto me for his poor reasons may have caught someone. As it is, I think I killed it.

Yeah...I was going to try it again. Which is why I didn't tell them I was doing it

I can't believe you missed it man, that last newbie I tried pretty much the same gambit and then I was all "OMGWTFBBQ!"

I was basically asking if Oman thought Kiwi was legit about his.

I misunderstood. I might re-read and give you a straight answer.

[Oman]

Yeah, I totally fragged that up. Oh well, next time I'll assume you're doing a gambit instead of assuming you forgot the difference between Strawman and WIFOM. I was like 'You're acting weird' and you were like 'No $hit' lol that's when I got the hint.

Nah, next time I'll be scum just trying to get you lynched

Oman, did you find anything from your gambit or was it a flop?

Flop, as per. Usually gambits give me something to run with, they're never conclusive. I personally think that this one failed cause I tried it on someone expeirenced, which I did because doing it on newbies usually results in the newbie flipping out and getting lynched.

Windkirby has been on this site for over 4 months and has made almost 400 posts. Kiwi has been on this site for a year and has made over 700 posts. You're offering them a newbie defense?

Yes I am. I don't believe that time and posts teach you. I believe its completed games, the ability to review them and see what you did wrong.

It sounds like a good tactic for Oman to use if he's scum. i.e. you saw him do this as town last game, so if he does it this game, you'll think he's town again.

1. You're too wrapped in me being scum right now, I suggest you take a step back and review.
2. 1 game is not statisticly significant. If I wanted to apply this to muerrto's head I'd do it 3-4 games in a row as town and then hit him with one as scum.

You sound awfully confident that you aren't getting played.

Prolly cause I wouldn't try to play Muerrto. Charter might be my first choice at trying to trip up. Clockwork hasn't been posting enough to be a threat, you're resisting to much, etc. I certainly wouldn't try to gambit Muertto so early, if he tripped me up I'm gone! If he didn't, what, I get one guy on my side who I could probably reason to my side anyway (based on his interaction with me so far).

Oh, and if you think "oh he's thought a lot about what he'd do as scum" thats just cause I love game theory.

Oman: for the record, when you mentioned LoudmouthLee, I did some searching. I thought you might be referring to this game where you came under fire for behavior similar to Kiwi's. For those who don't feel like reading the first few pages, neither Oman nor his accusers were scum. The real scum just stood back and watched while the townies ripped into each other, which is what I thought Oman was warning against.

Entirely correct, good sir. Great detective work! That also lets me do this:
Townies: Do not self-hammer or self-vote to a lynch! That is pointless. Your job is to extend a day until we are voting scum! Also in such a small game it makes the game WAY more difficult. Also, it allows scum to sit back and avoid the lynch.

If you want to see an example of Oman as scum, I would suggest the prequel to this game. Oman was a bulletproof serial killer who survived to the endgame and almost won.

That is actually a pretty good example of my scum play. I did a lot of things I do as town there too, so watch out.

I'll give Oman a chance to respond before saying anything more, to avoid doing his work for him.

Go for gold, my attacking charter would have little benefit. All it would do is alienate charter more and cause him to go hammer-and-tongs after me, which is the same reason I'm not going full out on strife and telling him where he is really wrong, just touching the big issues.

I didn't like his denial of sthar8's plan. He says it makes it too easy for scum to control the town, but honestly, this would be ridiculously transparent. Would a no-lynch honestly be better?

Actually, if you read my post again (and I want you to take that seriously, not sarcastically, or maliciously) I wasn't against the idea of lynch over no-lynch. I was against the idea of policies. I personally think that suprise slips scum up more than anything and letting them know what you'll do ruins things and gives them a chance to subvert it. (I.e. "Cop investigate X tonight.")

I'll tackle these two together:

PEGBAM explaination

definitely made some alarms go off, mostly for the completely derailing conversation, as well as

Someone asked about it:

Anybody wanna give me the TLDR version of that opening post? I wasn't in PEGBAM, and I got confused/bored after the first few sentences (sorry flameaxe!). Not sure if there's anything useful or if it's all just flavor.

and the same with mentioning:

I'm sorry about my quietness.

I just got FFTA2 and I'm playing non-stop. But I doubt anybody here is interested in that.
If you are, I'd recommend it.. I'm playing it right now...

So, what next?

Those two posts "derailed" as much as I did (granted Strife actually had a lot of content in his too as did my PEGBAM explaination one). So wherein lies the problem with my posts that isn't in the others?

Not to mention that in forum mafia it is INCREDIBLY hard to derail a thread because anyone can read back over what was said. Maybe in FTF where people forget it could all get a bit hard, but the fact that anyone can pick up where they want makes it almost no scum advantage.

So tell me, if I was scum, what is my "Master Plan" in getting us to discuss DS games for a few posts?


To anyone who says "well why are you defending against Windkirby after everything you said?" Its becasue Windkirby seems quite reasonable and open to change and fluidity shown by:

Alright, people are going to absolutely murder me for this, but when I read through sthar's posts, they were not quite as bad as I had recalled

[Oman]

To anyone who says "well why are you defending against Windkirby after everything you said?" Its becasue Windkirby seems quite reasonable and open to change and fluidity shown by:

Alright, people are going to absolutely murder me for this, but when I read through sthar's posts, they were not quite as bad as I had recalled

You don't see that as simply wishy washy?

Aren't most newbies?

Although....Feb.

You've convinced me*:

Unvote Vote WK

*Note: Even though he convinced me, I still take full responsibility for my own votes.

[Oman]

I'm happy for a WK lynch. I do not follow an Aioqwe lynch.

[Oman]

Unvote

You always unvote a claimed uncountered cop in a non-LYLO situation. ALWAYS!!!

Like you never lynch a claimed doc


Anyway...

Unvote

I have a real beef with melikefood's actions here, it seems panicy and really asking for what the town thinks.

Few reasons I am NOT crossing WK off my list:
Early Claim
Scummy play so far
etc.

WK will give results in his FIRST POST of every day.

Now this has the mafia threatened, they know he's out there, but could get him lynched later. This could be fun .

Re: the next one: I think its charter or kiwi.

[Oman]

hehehe, nah sorry. I say "beef" in other games. In Aus beef is a slang term that I use.

Or maybe it is a breadcrumb...duh duh duh.

Might I also say that if you do believe its a breadcrumb, why would you point to it several times.

Don't be chicken, you noodle (HAHAHA!)

here it says "Beef" Slang for the term "fight" in Aus beef can mean problem or issue.

If it is a breadcrumb, do people think that is a towntell, scumtell, or nulltell.

[Oman]

I've said it twice now, and both times its stood out because of its relevance to the game.

The Creamy Chicken was a pun earlier.

[Oman]

Stop talking about who you will investigate, the mafai will just have an easier NK.

[Oman]

Is this neccesary discussion?

[Oman]

Oman, what are your thoughts on charter?

I'll have to reread on him. He really hasn't stood out.

[Oman]

I disagree with investigating Obvscum in a normal situation, cause if they are town you can't stop it without giving the game away. However, here, that is kind of irrelevant.

[Oman]

@Oman, going to answer any of the questions that multiple people here have asked you? You keep ignoring them, and the requests to answer them...

I don't actually notice them.

@Oman, going to answer any of the questions that multiple people here have asked you? You keep ignoring them, and the requests to answer them...

AWWWW i really don't want to talk about this cause it means rereading!

[Oman]

Yes..please, I'll answer them all.

[Oman]

I'd pick charter over whoever the other guy is(forgot) over kiwi

[Oman]

IMO it was a flop, muerrto seems to think it had worth.

Anyway, a lot of people are vs charter that never were...must reviw.

[Oman]

Possibly...

[Oman]

Is he always this seemingly useless? I would have thought someone who posts on this site 12 times a day to be a little more helpful as town.

You totally used the right word there: seemingly.

I pull some good shit out, you just wait

I'm one of those guys that gets the scum to slip up by looking at the weird stuff.

[Oman]

BTW: I post lots per day because I'm constantly thinking about games.

[Oman]

I still am not buying kiwiwagon 08

[Oman]

I'm an idiot. It is in there, but so Oman can see it again.

Oman, what are your thoughts on charter?

Oman responds saying he needs to do a reread on me, I haven't really stood out. Now he's flip flopped magically (I assume he didn't do the reread based on how lazy he wants us to think he is with his last post, and he never posted thoughts on me) and voted for me.

Sorry for my posting binge.

Sorry I missed this post cause it was at the end of a huge hit.

You didn't stand out, which by no means makes you town. I think a wagon on you would be most beneficial. You also need to understand that I'm not lazy, I just play this game a different way to you. But if you're going to get all emotional and angry, I'm not willing to talk to you. This is a game of logic, not heart.

Vote Charter

[Oman]

Unvote Vote Kiwi

Simulposted.

This guy is somehow avoiding a modkill, so lets give him a townkill.

NO, I don't buy it, no, I don't think he is more likely to be scum than charter, BUT I feel his has an above average chance of being scum i.e chance > random. So he's optimal if charterwagon don't fly.

[Oman]

I'd beleive its in the setup, guys.

Unvote

[Oman]

Unvote Vote Kiwi

Simulposted.

This guy is somehow avoiding a modkill, so lets give him a townkill.

NO, I don't buy it, no, I don't think he is more likely to be scum than charter, BUT I feel his has an above average chance of being scum i.e chance > random. So he's optimal if charterwagon don't fly.

I'm confused. Charter and Kiwi both have a few votes on them. Why would you jump off one wagon to the other if you think Charter's more likely scum?

There was more value in leting charter live than letting kiwi live. If Kiwi was scum he would not give away a partner, charterscum will.

[Oman]

In other news, charter continues to appear scummy with his desperate attempts to get anyone lynched but himself.

Well, since I know I'm town, and there's others that have acted scummy, it kind of makes sense, doesnt it?

ANYONE no, but people who you find suspicious sure. I think charter is doing the latter, but thats hardly hard for scum to pull off.

[Oman]

Anything else you do kiwi?

I want to see if anyone counterclaims on the name (I've mentioned creamy chicken earlier, and he could be pulling from that).

[Oman]

Do you know what creaming people does? Do you cream scum or town? Is it good or bad?

[Oman]

I don't believe you one bit. Still waiting for someone to counterclaim it though.

[Oman]

Happy scumday charter.

[Oman]

I finding Kiwi's claim hard to believe since it looks suspiciously copypasta'd (Lol, get it?) right off of Oman's title.

But I guess we could try letting him kill a planned target.

Unvote

Probably cause it is. BBM uses the role that I fakeclaimed, thats the point, thats what makes the role likely to exist.

"Kiwi must be SK or vig, and regardless of which, town can use the NK to their advantage"

Because an SK will turn against the town the moment they feel they can get away with it, and will kill us all in our sleep.

Clockwork wins with logic, congrats.

I actually suggest that kiwi cream me. I really think this is the best option.

[Oman]

Because, you creaming me is the optimal solution. It keeps me happy, and lets you prove yourself.

[Oman]

Unless he targets me tonight I will vote and lead a wagon against him tomorrow.

[Oman]

No Sthar8, I am helping with my eagerness to "martyr" myself. Because Creamy chicken will not kill me.

[Oman]

Yeah. If he is creamy chicken its in my best interest to keep him alive and get targeted. If he's not, creamy chicken should counter right now.

[Oman]

I'm Beef Ramen, I've crumbed this several times. I'm an admirer of Creamy Chicken (which I also crumbed early). If Creamy chicken "Finds" me (I think now, that means "creams me") I get a power, or become part of their group (if masonry) or we become lovers, or I become unNKable or something. The role PM effectively says that there is no way to predict what will happen, who knows?

So yeah, if I'm not selected by creamy tonight I'll be pissed off.

[Oman]

EBWOP:

Unvote Vote Liam

For the strict reason of deadline lynching.

[Oman]

Oh how nice, he pops in and decides to roleclaim with a counter when he's about to be lynched. I've breadcrumbed beef, and said that creamy chicken was well liked, what have you done? Lurked.

Diescum.

[Oman]

Roar.

Whats everyone want to know. Who killed me? What?