Mini 619 - Ramen Mafia (Over!)

[Muerrto]

Vote: Oman

cause he nailed me as scum last time.

[Muerrto]

I won't use newbie status as a defense for poor play or ignorance

I already like you.

[Muerrto]

Vote: Oman

cause he nailed me as scum last time.

So you are scum this time and are afraid of him?

Lol no I'm mad he handed me my second ever loss as mafia period, this site, whatever site, real life...

And it was a legit false claim but the real doctor chose not to protect the cop!!! It was BS. I false claimed doc, Oman totally bought it, the real doc countered and said she protected ME!!! Oman's like, there's no way scum would flase claim and say they didn't protect the cop. I'm like, damn I thought there was no way the doc wouldn't protect the cop =p

So someone else's bad play killed me. And yes I'm still sore lol

I want a mulligan.

[Muerrto]

Unvote, Vote: aioqwe

You say you don't wanna random vote then you random vote? You say you don't want quicklynches but vote the person with the most votes so far?

At least we left the random stage.

[Muerrto]

I know that's what I mean, who doesn't protect the cop?! What were the chances? lol oh well

[Muerrto]

Vote dice # lol I don't care who you are that's just funny...

Waiting for a reply from aioqwe(had to scroll back to get his name right, can we shorten that somehow?)

@Strife: Don't wanna distract from the game so this'll be the last but naw, not WIFOM like Oman said. The real doc claimed he didn't protect the claimed cop. There's no way scum would fake claim that, he's right. So since he chose his target poorly, I got lynched lol. So wrong. Doc protecting a claimed uncountered cop isn't WIFOM, it's common sense. I made sure to tell him POST game that you always, always protect the cop.

[Muerrto]

I thought he played well

lol Vote: Oman(and yes I realise that's not bolded)

[Muerrto]

Also, the fact that Oman is an old homosexual female intrigues me.

Ahahahahahahahaha sig'd!

[Muerrto]

Oh and happy with my vote. Kiwi's arguments have been crap and his bandwagon jump onto food is worse. He's also saying mostly filler junk(how long exactly did we wanna pursue the chicken joke?)

[Muerrto]

OMG too many posts, hung over, will try and post tonight or tomorrow, letting all my games know

[Muerrto]

Muerrto and food seem quiet >.<

Yeah, my vote's fine on you.

I just posted about 3 posts above yours saying I'd post later tonight when I recover. I don't post on my weekend usually(tuesday/wednesday) but even if you didn't know that(which you didn't) I JUST posted right above you.

Food ALSO just posted earlier this SAME day.

You seem awfully desperate to shift attention.

[Muerrto]

Um...just read the OP...did that have anything to do with this game? lol

You smoke waaaay too much pot.

[Muerrto]

X-play gave it a 4 out of 5 and they're usually dead on in their reviews. Don't have a DS tho.

[Muerrto]

Shrug, I said my vote's fine on Kiwi and I'm waiting for him to respond. Was there something else I needed to be doing atm?

Did you have a question for me?

[Muerrto]

Ok, gladly.

Food saying Darla was the first to mention dice when Oman was is fishy. Not sure what it means exactly but weird no one got any suspiscion of Oman out of that, just food. Why did food omit him?

Second, Charter's being a noob. Is he being noob town or noob scum? Not sure. But your 'tells' work for either side as a noob so I'm going to have to see something more concrete.

However, voting Darla for unvoting is ridiculous whether you're town or scum, that's horribly noob.

Strife is obv town in pretty much any game I've been with him and so far he's always been town. Wouldn't mind seeing him as scum once so I can see a difference if there is one.

Sthar8 you seem to be pushing discussion, good job. Townie points or crafty points. Leaning townie atm.

Don't like Darla promising a post then running off, holiday or not. She never even said 'sorry for not posting like I promised' or something of the sort.

WK's reasons for voting and his reasons for always having a vote are flimsy and I'd ask any newbie playing in this game NOT to follow his example. Always keeping your vote somewhere is not necessary and if you vote hop too much, 1. your posts won't help when you're dead because you suspected everyone, and 2. you'll most likely get lynched for vote hopping.

Not really a read on Clock, Beyond, and Liam yet.

Still quite happy with my vote on Kiwi. He's not a noob, so the pleas to emotion and the 'gambit' from page 1 aren't flying with me. Let's see some real defense please.

[Muerrto]

Seriously, do you have any other suspicions or are you just going to badger me all day?

Plea.

My post listed my suspiscions.

Where's your defense again? Only thing I saw was 'Oh that? I did that on purpose so it's not actually scummy'.

[Muerrto]

Shrug, scum sometimes slip up. I just thought it was interesting he omitted you. Now granted, in my last game newbie town did that same thing, but excusing it because of that is ridiculous. He hasn't really given a reason for it yet either.

Food?

[Muerrto]

Both kind of. Like I said, Boxcar in my last game did it. I never let up, he eventually got lynched(well, his replacment) as town in LYLO. Sucked.

Townies HAVE to be more observant and careful about what they type. Unfortunately, they aren't always.

Does that mean we look past it? No. Does it reflect as scummy on you? Not really. Was just interesting no one mentioned it. A bunch of people mentioned that Darla wasn't first and FoS'ed or voted Food for that but no one asked why he'd skip over you.

Was more interesting.

I'm more inclined he'd skip you to distance Darla than to protect you. That'd be too obvious.

[Muerrto]

Unvote Vote Muerrto

I find it incredulous that you acutally believe that he could be scummy after a townie did it in LYLO and you accept that it could be town.

Um...I said more interesting. I'm also not voting for him or you. Also, you very nearly got my vote here.

What you just said(and correct me if I'm wrong) is that because a newbie did it and ended up being town, from now on when someone does it I should assume they're town, and voicing any suspiscion of them for doing it is wrong because obviously they're town.

Is that about right?

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, please address some of my stuff that was directed at you.

Which would be?

[Muerrto]

I disagree that townies have to be more careful about what they type...scum so have soemthing to hide.

So you think when a townie makes a slip and diverts attention onto them instead of at the scum, that's ok?

Townies also have to pay attention to what they say otherwise they derail the real scumhunting.

[Muerrto]

I disagree that townies have to be more careful about what they type...scum so have soemthing to hide.

So you think when a townie makes a slip and diverts attention onto them instead of at the scum, that's ok?

Townies also have to pay attention to what they say otherwise they derail the real scumhunting.

Firstly: So not their top priority. Scumhunting > Looking town.

Secondly: Don't tell me that a townie derailing scumhunting is worse than a scum being caught out by a slip.

First, if they divert from scum hunting then isn't that hurting scumhunting?

Second, how do you know Food's mistake wasn't a slip? There's only one way you'd be sure of that. Are you sure?

And third, you never answered my last post: What you just said is because someone did it once and they were town, anyone who does it from now on is automatically town and it's pointless to suspect them for it.

Yes? No? If no, please explain what you actually did say.

[Muerrto]

1. Yes, but priorities.

2. I don't but nice loading there. I'm basically saying that I think this. I believe I said "think". So don't make this something its not.

3. Strawman, you don't get that answered. Its not worth my time.

So, how exactly does this make me scum and justify your vote? I also said 'think' not 'sure'. I also said it was interesting than scummy. I'm not followwing your logic. If I'd voted him for it and called for his lynch, fine. I mentioned it, that's scummy?

And that's not a strawman. You voted me because I said it could be scummy even though I've seen town do it. You voting me says that I should know he's town because I've seen town do it. That's insanely horrible WIFOM.

Are you simply fishing for reactions? I've never seen you play like this and it's confusing. You're misusing terms, using WIFOM constantly. We just went through Kiwi purposely acting scummy for a reason. I can only assume you're doing the same since before this I didn't have a scum read on you. But this isn't your playstyle nor is it even correct.

Mixing strawman with WIFOM?

[Muerrto]

Muerrto:

Seriously, do you have any other suspicions or are you just going to badger me all day?

Plea.

How is this a plea to emotion. Yes, I asked you a question but you specified that I was pleaing to emotion.

My post listed my suspiscions.

I made this request before you posted your suspicions

I'd definitely call that a plea, that's all I can say about that. I'm not calling for your lynch I'm simply voting for you. So are 4 other people(3 now I think). Your defense is weak and not really a defense. Claiming you did something because of this AFTER you did it is as easy as simply doing it and making up a reason after. How is that a defense?

[Muerrto]

Lol that's what I figured I just don't personally do those. You end up in Kiwi's position.(not elaborating)

So speaking from experience, what do you think of Kiwi? I'd be more inclined to be persuaded by your opinion since I don't really have that particular experience to know the difference. Was it or was it not?

[Muerrto]

Hehe naw, not that, was thinking the other and since that applies to Kiwi I'll

Unvote

for now. Not because of the speed, even though it was fast. But because you know what you're talking about when it comes to that obviously, I've now seen multiple examples.

Hope you're right.

I'll let everyone else chime in on recent events before I say anything more.

[Muerrto]

Spend your first game with the likes of Yos, MBF, Dasq, Joudas, and Guardian... You learn not to let the allure of experience guide you. *cough*

Lol if you check our join dates you'll see I joined before he did. Not what I was referring to.

Heck, one of the more known and respected names on here, Ergo, is a friend of mine from another board and we joined about the same time.

I frequent the newbie games rather than the 'real' ones so my name's not quite as known, but I've been here a while.

[Muerrto]

Plea does not equate to plea to emotion. Isn't a vote a call to lynch?

You might say it's just pressure, but it's the pressure of being lynched. No matter how you look at it, you're still pushing my lynch.

Ok...I may have unvoted you, but this was a horrible post.

You're going to make newbies scared to vote someone. A vote is NOT a call to lynch.

[Muerrto]

Well Oman, sorry. From now on I'll remember this occurence and not get so riled up when you attack me for bad reasons, defeats the point.

[Muerrto]

Seriously, do you have any other suspicions or are you just going to badger me all day?

Kiwi, I don't know what Muerrto mean by "plea"

He's basically saying 'leave me alone, you picked on me enough, go focus on someone else' as if if he IS scum I'm not supposed to be concentrating on him. That's a plea to emotion.

And posts like the above are starting to make me think Oman may not quite be right about Kiwi's original intentions. His posts lately have been useless as far as scumhunting goes.

[Muerrto]

Hmm..to lessen the distraction possibly should I explain what I saw in your post Oman? Won't help the scum really cause I think it's a moot point now.

[Muerrto]

Ok people. No, Oman wasn't testing me. I failed but he wasn't testing me, he was testing everyone else.

Oman loves gambits. He attacked me for god awful reasons and I SHOULD have seen it since he JUST did this to someone else in my last game with him, but since he targetted me I was like um...dude, those are god awful reasons.

Lesson 1 for new people: Don't worry that someone puts ONE vote on you. Had I left Oman alone his gambit to see who would leap onto me for his poor reasons may have caught someone. As it is, I think I killed it.

The reason why I took his advice about Kiwi is because Oman loves gambits. I was basically asking if Oman thought Kiwi was legit about his. He thinks he was. I'm not convinced. His latest posts haven't really tried to do....anything.

He's not scumhunting, he's not listing suspiscions, he's not being town. He is being voted again:

Vote: Kiwi

I don't do gambits so I asked Oman what he thought, not because he's experienced in the game, because he has that 'particular' experience. No buddying, no soft claiming, just understood what he was doing.

I mentioned it, that's scummy?

Untrue

I've never seen you play like this and it's confusing.

Doesn't this tell you anything? Da da, la, la di da.

[Muerrto]

Lesson 1 for new people: Don't worry that someone puts ONE vote on you. Had I left Oman alone his gambit to see who would leap onto me for his poor reasons may have caught someone. As it is, I think I killed it.

Yeah...I was going to try it again. Which is why I didn't tell them I was doing it

I can't believe you missed it man, that last newbie I tried pretty much the same gambit and then I was all "OMGWTFBBQ!"

Yeah, I totally fragged that up. Oh well, next time I'll assume you're doing a gambit instead of assuming you forgot the difference between Strawman and WIFOM. I was like 'You're acting weird' and you were like 'No $hit' lol that's when I got the hint.

FoS: Darla

If you wanna refute Kiwi's points great, your business, that's mafia. Don't do it using other people's arguments(mine) and don't defend other people(Charter and BB) saying what you 'think' they meant.

Makes it sound like you're inside their head, only scum would have that knowledge.

Can you tell me why your vote stands in your own words?

[Muerrto]

I disagree. He's playing just as town as he always does. In fact, just like you, I've never seen him play scum.

[Muerrto]

29: I didn't like his denial of sthar8's plan. He says it makes it too easy for scum to control the town, but honestly, this would be ridiculously transparent. Would a no-lynch honestly be better?
99: This:

In PEGBAM (A mini normal) I played an SK who was NK immune but not Investigation Immune (note: this is also where my title came from). Flameaxe asked me for flavour so that he didn't have to write it. I suggested I interrogate a guy tied to a chaior! And then Bam was all "BETTER IDEA!" And it was the ramen idea and then shit happend and finnaly something happened.

I forgot what we were talking about.

definitely made some alarms go off, mostly for the completely derailing conversation, as well as
108:

What system is it on?

this. It's not as bad as food's post because at least food's reference to the game was relevant to his quietness, as he put it, whereas here Oman simply continues to lead conversation away from what's important.
Finally, even though I didn't find the communication itself scummy, I found post 161 and the way he discussed things a little derail-y. As he said so himself, there was a lot of WIFOM, which I don't understand what a townie's motives would be in doing so.

Wait...so you just voted him for banter? Someone asked him about the story, he answered. Someone mentioned something that interested him...he answered.

If he's 'derail-y' why aren't I? I talked about the game as well. Talked about the opening story. And I'M the one who explained what Oman was doing first.

Hm...why'd you pick Oman? Stange even for scum since at the moment either me or Oman would be a hard sell to the town.

I'd say your gambit worked Oman even AFTER explaining it. You've been scummy all game so far WK. Almost everyone has you at their top if not the 2 or 3 because of it. Now you vote Oman for insanely weak reasons? Banter?

Unvote, Vote: WK

Happier with this vote, not letting Kiwi off the hook tho.

[Muerrto]

ok let's try that bolded...

Unvote, Vote: WK

[Muerrto]

To anyone who says "well why are you defending against Windkirby after everything you said?" Its becasue Windkirby seems quite reasonable and open to change and fluidity shown by:

Alright, people are going to absolutely murder me for this, but when I read through sthar's posts, they were not quite as bad as I had recalled

You don't see that as simply wishy washy?

[Muerrto]

Unvote

You always unvote a claimed uncountered cop in a non-LYLO situation. ALWAYS!!!

Not sure if I wanna fall back on Kiwi or Food for the posts without the unvote. He kind of tested the waters to see if people wanted to lynch WK anyway, then when he found out the answer was no, he unvoted.

Kiwi, if you're town, use this as a lesson. What Oman did was bring a weak case on me to see who bit into it. It's not scummy it's called a gambit. Your wagon gained force so fast because you fell into it. Don't. Don't let someone else's case influence your decision, make your own.

[Muerrto]

WK fell for it and attacked Oman. I was addressing WK.

[Muerrto]

LMAO i said Kiwi, sorry, meant WK obviously. Saying why his wagon formed so fast.

[Muerrto]

Any intelligent doc will protect a claimed cop. Directing your investigation makes it easy for the scum to use the results to manipulate the town. And with blockers being a possibility in this setup, assuming a doc is lying is also a good way to allow scum to manipulate the town.

In short, do not try and prevent or predict any night kills or night actions and don't try to speculate on why they did or didn't work or where they were targetted and why.

Town lives in the day, the night belongs to scum and only they know why something happened or not.


Who are your suspects and why?

[Muerrto]

muerrto - mightn't it be unwise to state how I suspect since it might indicate who I might investigate?

No. You're a still a member of the town, you still need to contribute to the discussion. Simply don't TALK about who you will investigate and it won't matter.

Besides, a blocker blocks you, not your target. So it doesn't matter who you say you're going to investigate.

[Muerrto]

IMO it was a flop, muerrto seems to think it had worth.

Well it pulled in WK which turned out to be a flop. I think it was a flop because I fought it too hard. It woulda worked otherwise I think.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto: You say you've played a few games with Oman as town before. Is he always this seemingly useless? I would have thought someone who posts on this site 12 times a day to be a little more helpful as town.

Lol he has his moments. He'll go a while without really chipping in then he'll find something and attack it for a while then kinda fade out again.

I'll take him at face value till I have a reason to otherwise because he seems to be playing like always.

[Muerrto]

Gotta agree here

Vote: Kiwi

I think Oman's original idea of Kiwi was wrong and he's done nothing to help the town. Now he's lurking but posting so he doesn't get strikes.

WK was a nice distraction but my vote's right back where it was in the first place and it's not moving again unless he starts posting some content.

[Muerrto]

Logic? Crap =p I been rolling bones all this time. *tosses bones*

Vote:Clock(and yes that's not bolded)

[Muerrto]

Um.. wouldn't a NK immune vig be basically...an invincible vig?

Not buying it enough to even remove my vote unless someone can explain to me that I'm wrong.

[Muerrto]

Charter, Darla, Muerrto: Why are you still voting for Kiwi?

Because i was moving yesterday and today. Got my net back up and re-reading all my threads quickly. I don't see the case on Charter really but if everyone else does it's better than a no lynch. Course now he's claimed doc so wtf. Kiwi's claim is BS and since the game has a good chance of an SK or Vig anyway it's not provable just by him killing someone tonight.

Oman wanting to be the target is just weird but he's not martyring if he says he'll live. Interesting soft claim.

I've heard of and seen an invincible townie(immune to night actions, played one), but you guys have really seen an invincible VIG? That's crazy.

Vote stands.

Wanna see more from Liam, an explanation from Oman, and some damn good stuff from Kiwi. He STILL hasn't scumhunted. He started off acting scummy, then he spent all his time defending himself w/crap logic, then he claimed, now he's defending his claim and talking about the target. NO scumhunting, period.

[Muerrto]

Oman's claim is weird but this game is weird.

Kiwi's claim is BS.

Liam's claim is BS, how is beef a jack of all trades?

Unvote, Vote: Liam

because of the deadline approaching. Still like Kiwi better.

[Muerrto]

Shrug well

Vote: WK

obviously. I spose I could've been frame blocked or he could be scum, either way. Would someone like to explain what I've done that's scummy?

[Muerrto]

Clock: A vote isn't a call to lynch. Also, you seem upset he voted you. Why?

[Muerrto]

vote clockworkruse

I don't know how you can slip knowing the thinking of scum and expect to get away with it.

If he was attempting to put pressure on me, he would ask questions and attempt to catch me in a lie. Instead he simply says 'Oi! You slipped!' and leaves it at that. There isn't an call for me to explain myself, no questions for me to answer.

You didn't see that as saying 'explain yourself'? Really?

I don't know how you can slip knowing the thinking of scum and expect to get away with it.

I would've expected something along the lines of 'I didn't slip etc.' Seems straight forward to me. How about you start there and we move forward?

[Muerrto]

Sorry. Busy all weekend. I'm vanilla, period. What else can I claim?

Am I a miller? Possibly. Some serial killer roles get a frameblock ability as well so that's also possible. But I'm not scum so how the heck do I defend myself from an investigation result?

Is WK scum? I have no clue, but I know I shouldn't show up guilty.

Does anyone have an actual case on me? If not, even if you DO decide to lynch me, why are we doing it so rapidly that the town doesn't add anything to the discussion for day 3?!

In fact

FoS

On those jumping on my wagon to get me lynched so quickly. How does a fast day EVER help the town?

Unvote

Because his claim seems legit but I've no clue why I'm showing guilty.

[Muerrto]

Onto Muerrto: The way I see it, a flavor claim, as all vanillas would probably have the same flavor, would have been the best verification among other vanillas, which makes Muerrto suspicious. And even if I assume that vanillas have different flavors, the lack of a flavor kinda indicates to me that he is a mafia who was unsure of posting a flavor for fear that all vanillas have the same flavor.

No matter the case, I am going to go ahead and

Unvote, Vote Muerrto

, as I planned on doing almost immediately after the investigation. As I saw it, the lynch should be sufficient in learning, to about a 1/2 chance, his sanity. If we waste another night on it... well, it just seems to accomplish the same thing, but who else is a better choice?
So, instead of no lynching, I can see a Muerrto lynch as being more sensible, assuming we trust the cop and his possible sanity issues.
(And with a confirmed alignment on one of his investigations by tomorrow, we will be much more equipped to handle the results we receive from him, if any.)

First. I claimed vanilla townie. No one asked for a damn flavor. I'm chicken, 'just plain chicken'. Everything tastes like chicken.

And if you had read my post I SAID even if you DO want to lynch me, why do you want to do it in TWO pages??? Why the hell would you want me speed lynched like you're doing? The only thing dragging out the day will do is get more info for the town. If I'm gonna get killed off at least don't waste the day like this. Geez.

Vote: BB

for voting me to lynch -2 RIGHT AFTER I already said this once. There is no pro-town reason to speed lynch.

[Muerrto]

Massive FoS: DBE

btw. What's a 'psuedovote'? A 'I want him lynched but don't wanna be associated with the wagon' vote?

[Muerrto]

I love how people are simply not listening. If you're GOING to lynch me PLEASE drag the day out and get some info first...

I'm at lynch -1, no clue why I'm 'guilty'.

I don't like BB or especially CWR placing their votes so rapidly. The faster we get to nightfall the better it is for the scum, ergo, the speedlynch is scummy.

I really don't like DBE's 'I don't wanna vote you but when you get close to death I'll gladly do it' vote.

When I die I guess you can at least use that info. I'd rather you guys hold off and at least TRY and play the game but whatever.

[Muerrto]

Dammit. Hey Charter, you missed an easy win before sthar posted all that mess about how he couldn't be scum.

Sthar, you questioned why scum would kill Oman and if Kiwi was blocked or something. Remember, Oman TOLD Kiwi to kill him because of his role. So we killed Oman and blocked Kiwi to make it look like there was a doctor. Since Kiwi never exlained himself we were good. Was just dumb luck WK investigated me. With you questoning that Charter could've sealed the game I think at that point.

Also, Charter, you heavily, heavily bussed myself and Darla. Sometimes that works yes but remember, Darla was the godfather so immune to WK. There's never, ever a good reason to buss the godfather.

Anyway, grr...lucky pick WK. Why did you pick me btw? I thought I was pretty low key day 1. GG guys.

I also would like to hear from Oman about what would've happened to him. Masons maybe?

[Muerrto]

I still don't understand why scum made their N1 choices. The fact that Oman died made it fairly obvious that Kiwi did not try to kill him. I guess that would have held more credibility if Kiwi said in game 'weird, I targetted him as asked and he died!'

We had to block Kiwi, he was going to kill me that was obvious from the thread. Still no clue why WK investigated me, that was blind luck and without that we would've been fine.

But since Kiwi was targetting Oman(supposedly, Oman DID ask him to and maybe he changed his mind) killing Oman made it look like Kiwi did it as asked and Oman was wrong about his role and Kiwi targetting him.

It also set up the doctor protection.

Was again blind luck BB jailed Esthar. Basically some really lucky power role targets cost us the game.

Oh, and Charter claimed 'mysterious new flavor' and you guys bought it hehe.

Can't speak for night 2 since I was dead.