Mature Mafia: Game Over

[Adel]

what this game needs is a ruthless replacement policy.

as a starting point, I propose that not posting for 10 days = auto-replacement

no prodding, just post or perish.

[nonny]

Adel the only poeple I see that viglante mode about activity and replacement is either an impatient townie with a good role or a townie that knows what going on, more often it's scum who want to hurry p an win over the confused town. Sure the game has been inactive. But besides your big post on glork there hasn't been many accusations lately other than you are in active you must be scum!!

Still re-reading.

[Adel]

I haven't called anyone scum for lurking, I'm not leading a lynch-the-lurker campaign. I say we just replace them and get a game going. I've moved on from supporting a strict deadline policy (which I use as mod to influence the pace of a game) to a strict replacement policy.

I'm more worried about the scum lurking to a win or the game being abandoned.
Because there hasn't been much going on I'm supporting a DGB lynch (who has been active) becuase from my perspective I expect there to be one scum between Glork and DGB since they (along with me) were have not claimed specific mod powers.

[Adel]

# of posts by player:
Adel: 67
Axelrod: 57
Coron: 20
DGB: 48
elvis_knits:79
Glork: 108
logicticus: 30
macros: 48 + nonny: 3 = 52
Phoebus: 39 + Werebear: 7 = 46
Pooky: 47
rajrhcpfreak: 46
Talitha: 31

do any of these numbers stand out?

I didn't realise that logicticus and Talitha had posted so little or that Glork had posted so much.

[Coron]

I just replaced Coron in one of my games for inactivity.

Wha? Which game were you running?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8206
I had to prod you twice, and then I replaced you instead of prodding you a third time, in accordance the stated replacement policy (rule 12)

I need to remember to check the large normal forum when I have games going on there :doh:

My bad.

[DrippingGoofball]

Because there hasn't been much going on I'm supporting a DGB lynch (who has been active) becuase from my perspective I expect there to be one scum between Glork and DGB since they (along with me) were have not claimed specific mod powers.

Does that mean that you'll lynch Glork after I come up town? Yey!

Going on vacation until July 8, please don't replace me, thanks. If you lynch me the point is moot.

[elvis_knits]

I'm getting to the point where I am ready to lynch anyone to get this game moving again.

Replacements giving perspectives could help jumpstart the game.

And yeah we might want to replace Coron.

[Werebear]

??? Coron has just posted twice, elvis? Admittedly not until being prompted...

[Coron]

I'm getting to the point where I am ready to lynch anyone to get this game moving again.

Replacements giving perspectives could help jumpstart the game.

And yeah we might want to replace Coron.

We might want to replace elvis for being silly.

[Axelrod]

Glork takes too much pride in his Mafia game to suck this bad if he's town. On the other hand, he could easily ignore this game as scum and tell us we deserved what we got afterwards for ignoring him. He's active in other games.

I don't remember who I am voting;

Unvote;

Vote: Glork

[elvis_knits]

I'm getting to the point where I am ready to lynch anyone to get this game moving again.

Replacements giving perspectives could help jumpstart the game.

And yeah we might want to replace Coron.

We might want to replace elvis for being silly.

I only meant that it might become an issue since you are not always dependable.

I still <3 you though.

[elvis_knits]

Glork takes too much pride in his Mafia game to suck this bad if he's town. On the other hand, he could easily ignore this game as scum and tell us we deserved what we got afterwards for ignoring him. He's active in other games.

I don't remember who I am voting;

Unvote;

Vote: Glork

Was Glork prodded?

I admit lurking is not like him.

[nonny]

Well the prodder(pooky) died, so someone may need to actually do it.

Right now I'm most suspicious of DGB but that is because she has been the most unhelpful, even if that is her playstyle I still don't like it, at all. Also, tally hasn't, as pointed out, posted that much. I noticed this while following along and was disappointed that there wasn't much activity from here. She only came active to ask if we wanted a deadline or when phoebus was being lazy about finding a replacement. So don't remember seeing much if any content from her either.

Still trying to figure out were my scumdar falls on everyone else.

[logicticus]

Glork has not posted in 2 weeks, I will take the initiative to prod.

If DGB is gonna be the lynch I am down as I have mentioned, but I would still prefer Adel.

[nonny]

I'm more worried about the scum lurking to a win or the game being abandoned.
Because there hasn't been much going on I'm supporting a DGB lynch (who has been active) becuase from my perspective I expect there to be one scum between Glork and DGB since they (along with me) were have not claimed specific mod powers.

So you find no mod powers scummy? So are you essentially calling yourself scummy?

From what I've been reading right now I would support a DGB or adel lynch. Both have been unhelpful. DGB in her playstyle as mentioned. And adel has pointed out lurkers, and hasn't really contributed that much at all.

Just because someone has a large number of posts doesn't make them active adel. It's the content not the number that matters, atleast to me. And looking back you may have 3 pages of posts all your own but they are all quite small and relitivly useless.


Those who do support a DGB lynch, do you still now that she is on vacation? Because if we do lynch her and she isn't around to post her role would we have to wait till she got back or go to night and have her post later? I would think with normal townie roles that have night actions the role of the person lynched does sometimes if not always come in to play when making your decision...

[Adel]

So you find no mod powers scummy? So are you essentially calling yourself scummy?

not quite. I think there is a very good chance of one out of the three of us being scum. Given a choice between Glork and DGB, I'll supporting the DGB lynch, but Glork's lurking is starting o become more worrisome.

m active adel. It's the content not the number that matters, atleast to me. And looking back you may have 3 pages of posts all your own but they are all quite small and relitivly useless.

I built a big case against Elvis_knits that I will revisit sooner or later, but first I think we should settle no-mod powers vs mod-powers thing. Worst case scenario, I get lynched, than at least someone will look over my case and take it more seriously.

Those who do support a DGB lynch, do you still now that she is on vacation? Because if we do lynch her and she isn't around to post her role would we have to wait till she got back or go to night and have her post later? I would think with normal townie roles that have night actions the role of the person lynched does sometimes if not always come in to play when making your decision...

This is a good point. If she is on vacation and we lynch her then the game gets stalled, and I don't think it is a good idea to lynch someone without giving them a chance to claim . On the other hand, if we do not lynch her and he has a power role then we lose that action.

Shoot, I'm almost ready to motion for game abandonment. Perhaps mafia without a mod just doesn't work.

I think every player should voice support for an Adel, DGB, or Glork lynch. Those that don't vote or at least voice a strong opinion aren't meeting the minimum activity level for the game to continue, and should be replaced.

[nonny]

Trying to replace to many times would be bad in a game like this. Some posts have been altered. If you didn't know which ones you would be lost. And also some of the contexts of certain posts would be odd or change even. Also, you would have to probably find those "mature" players, and get them all mod powers for it to work. I ask mith he said jeep will get around to my mod powers soon.

Your case agianst elvis was a fairly large post. But it was lacking. Even when I read it before replacing in, I didn't see the logic. Also that was posted after you said that elvis is probably town in the game and then insulted her real life charcter. So I don't see the validity.

[Adel]

That isn't shocking comming from you, since if I was right about you and elvis_knits being scum then I expect that mathcam was killed by you and elvis to discredit my theory.

Since that seems to be all of the reaction I'm going to get out of her, I'll lay my cards on the table:

I'm calling the scumgroup as being elvis_knits + mathcam +

marcos

nonny

A random wagon landed on mathcam, and elvis_knits is bussing him.

I am pretty sure the first line zu wrote was "I am out of the game." Then something like "I was vanilla townsperson.

scum being helpful by sharing information with the town

I believe we are playing a modless game.

The mod has given us roles to police the game ourselves, and chosen us as the sort of people to play fairly without supervision.

O... when I said before this is a modless game, I think that is the wrong way to look at it.

We have to play like we are all mods. A mod would not lie about the alignment of a player, even if that player were themselves. Because they are acting as mod.

this is when she figured out that zu gave away the critical word!

I would consider anyone who cheats to have lost themselves the game. I'm not really scared that people are going to abuse the freedom we have been given. Perhaps I am too much of an optimistic, trusting person.

But basically, you have to accept that there is the possibility that people will cheat, and play or not play on those terms. There is nothing we can do about it other than decide not to play.

she is warning her scumbuddies not to cheat.

It's like you're trying to act like townie scared the scum will abuse the setup.

As an ethical player she wants to say "it is ok, I am scum and I will not cheat!"

If mathcam does not claim in the correct way (that lets us know he is not scum), please nobody correct him. Just vote him.

As clever scum she wants to bus her partner and confirm herself at the same time! She knows from zu's post which word to look for, and she thinks cam doesn't.

I think it is perfectly mature and ethical to ask you to verify one word from your pm. The choice of term here is important. It is not asking you to quote your pm. It is asking you for one word. I see nothing potentially illegal in that.

she doesn't think there is anything illegal about it because she figured the word out honestly.

We have already had scum take an unfair advantage by editing the first two posts and deleting one of macros' posts... and who knows what else. I am assuming scum is doing this. If you are a pro-town role and you did any of it, speak now.

How are we to proceed in a game where scum are cheating?

Answer: cheat the scum.

I suspect that marcos is scum with her, and she thinks that he is the one who did the editing. She has the added frustration then of being ethical scum who doesn't cheat, but is acting like a townie who bends the rules, while being pissed at her partner marcos who is cheating by editing posts.

I think elvis_knits suspected that Marcos (instead of Emptytiger) is the mystery editor because of the non-native english thing, and then he edited his own post just for cover.

For the record I have no idea if Marcos actually was doing the editing, all that matters to me is that it seems very possible that elvis thinks he did.

~~~

Sorry for being harsh earlier ellvis_knits, but I was trying to apply psychological pressure to get additional information out of you. I was trying to add stress to your life, which I have mixed feelings about, I can only apologize and hope that you understand.

btw, after this post, didn't macros admit to editing posts?

[Adel]

unvote DGB, vote: nonny

DGB is on vacation, and Glork needs to be prodded and/or replaced, so I'll return to plan "a".

could some other players please voice an opinion, or better yet, vote for someone?!!?

[Glork]

...just got a prod from Logic; will re-read and post tonight.

[Glork]

(FYI, I completely forgot about this game; been on LA for the last couple of weeks as well, as indicated here.)

[nonny]

Your jump to me is odd adel. And marcos admited to doing his job by editing the deathposts. Sure I don't agree with how he edited it. But he atleast admitted it.

I don't see any actual accusation in your post towards marcos(me).

And I actual find it funny that you would steer away from DGB someone you were so set on, just because they are gone and it may delay the game. Are you just hoping to lynch anyone? You are very jumpy with your votes, that is a key thing I realized on my read through.

vote adel

[Werebear]

well, my first vote choice would still be TDG. So, er, what happens if we lynch someone out of town, with no moderator around?

You know what. I know this is an experiment, no moderator, blah blah, all that crap... but who says we can't elect our OWN moderator, someone not currently playing the game, who can point this game in a somewhat forwards direction? It would rely on players telling the "moderator electee" the truth, but then, aren't we relying on truthfulness anyways?

[nonny]

does TDG= dripinggoofball?

Werebear that is a good idea but not sure how it would work out. Since they would need to have mod powers so it would have to be someone that already has those perferably. As it stands though it looks like if we lynch an inactive/vacationing player then we get to twidle our thumbs till they announce thier role, or move on and let them post when the night kill(hypothetical) posts.

How do we know if there are say no night kills? That is what i'm wondering. Say (forget who it was) is notified day starts, then no one posts a deathscene? i could see either anarchy or confusion happening.....

[elvis_knits]

Adel... your case continues to be nothing but a bunch of unsupported assumptions.

That isn't shocking comming from you, since if I was right about you and elvis_knits being scum then I expect that mathcam was killed by you and elvis to discredit my theory.

O RLY?

If that's true, then why can't you come up with some new arguments tying me to Macros/Nonny?

The following post is very outdated and almost all of it is no longer relevant.

Since that seems to be all of the reaction I'm going to get out of her, I'll lay my cards on the table:

I'm calling the scumgroup as being elvis_knits + mathcam +

marcos

nonny

A random wagon landed on mathcam, and elvis_knits is bussing him.

Not possible since mathcam was town.

I am pretty sure the first line zu wrote was "I am out of the game." Then something like "I was vanilla townsperson.

scum being helpful by sharing information with the town

There is no reason for you to believe that I am scum being helpful as opposed to town being helpful. What in my posts gives the impression of scum being helpful? Why couldn't it be town being helpful? It seems like you have just decided I am scum and determined to see everything I do in that light. You have assumed I am scum and read everything in that light. There is NOTHING to support it.

I believe we are playing a modless game.

The mod has given us roles to police the game ourselves, and chosen us as the sort of people to play fairly without supervision.

O... when I said before this is a modless game, I think that is the wrong way to look at it.

We have to play like we are all mods. A mod would not lie about the alignment of a player, even if that player were themselves. Because they are acting as mod.

this is when she figured out that zu gave away the critical word!

I don't see what you mean here at all. What did I write that lets you know that I suddenly came to an epiphany? Where do I mention zu at all? Where do I mention the critical word?

You are pulling this out of your ass.

I would consider anyone who cheats to have lost themselves the game. I'm not really scared that people are going to abuse the freedom we have been given. Perhaps I am too much of an optimistic, trusting person.

But basically, you have to accept that there is the possibility that people will cheat, and play or not play on those terms. There is nothing we can do about it other than decide not to play.

she is warning her scumbuddies not to cheat.

Why do you think that? Again... nothing I have said indicates your assumption.

It's like you're trying to act like townie scared the scum will abuse the setup.

As an ethical player she wants to say "it is ok, I am scum and I will not cheat!"

I REALLY don't see where those two sentences are at all alike. You are putting words in my mouth or at least seriously reading into my words things that are not there at all.

I also think it would be a tad retarded for anyone to try to assure the rest of the players that "I am scum and don't worry I won't cheat." Seeing as the person is clearly admitting to being scum.

If mathcam does not claim in the correct way (that lets us know he is not scum), please nobody correct him. Just vote him.

As clever scum she wants to bus her partner and confirm herself at the same time! She knows from zu's post which word to look for, and she thinks cam doesn't.

Well, mathcam is town, so I was not bussing him. Also, mathcam is not a stupid player, so me banking on him missing something is pretty far-fetched.

I think it is perfectly mature and ethical to ask you to verify one word from your pm. The choice of term here is important. It is not asking you to quote your pm. It is asking you for one word. I see nothing potentially illegal in that.

she doesn't think there is anything illegal about it because she figured the word out honestly.

WHERE do you think this happened? Where did I figure this out? You have provided nothing convincing to where I had some epiphany and figured out the word.

We have already had scum take an unfair advantage by editing the first two posts and deleting one of macros' posts... and who knows what else. I am assuming scum is doing this. If you are a pro-town role and you did any of it, speak now.

How are we to proceed in a game where scum are cheating?

Answer: cheat the scum.

I suspect that marcos is scum with her, and she thinks that he is the one who did the editing. She has the added frustration then of being ethical scum who doesn't cheat, but is acting like a townie who bends the rules, while being pissed at her partner marcos who is cheating by editing posts.

I think elvis_knits suspected that Marcos (instead of Emptytiger) is the mystery editor because of the non-native english thing, and then he edited his own post just for cover.

For the record I have no idea if Marcos actually was doing the editing, all that matters to me is that it seems very possible that elvis thinks he did.

So you think that: macros was cheating and that I knew he was cheating because we are both scum. AND that I was trying to give myself a disadvatage to make it fair for the the other team (townies).

That is AWFULLY convoluted, and unprovable.

Also, if I were scum and my buddy was cheating I would just stop the game and admit it. I wouldn't keep going. It would be unfair to everyone.