Mini 607 - Cop Central [GAME OVER!]


User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel

Post Post #175 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:34 am

Post by Skruffs »

MyY apologies, I based the assumption that you were against the mass claim on this:
Raging Rabbit wrote:
Fark wrote:Here I am not arguing the point about whether we should have mass claimed. I'm arguing that it is not unreasonable or scummy for me to have suggested it.
And I'm arguing that it
is
unreasonable.
I might have taken that post out of context, because I was reading through your posts to see how you were being inciteful (not insightful), and that gave me the impressoin that Fark was saying "It's not scummy for me to have suggested a massclaim" and you were saying "Yes it was."

I Realize the opposite was actually the case, now, but that post suggests things the way I interpretted them.
User avatar
Farkshinsoup
Farkshinsoup
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Farkshinsoup
Goon
Goon
Posts: 913
Joined: April 10, 2008
Location: The Big Smoke, Canuckistan

Post Post #176 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:41 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

QoS wrote:The thing is, If RR is scum (like Fark want us to believe) we wont learn much by lynching Fark, because RR has no sanity, he is just lying (RR investigated Fark in N0).
I've merely been responding to attacks being made against me, and the way that people have responded to those attacks. I haven't been trying to convince anyone that RR is scum. I believe it, at this point. You should obviously make up your own mind.

Skruffs: That seems like an odd mistake. I was clearly against the mass claim from the beginning, you yourself even said you found it suspicious. It's why I have 3 votes at the moment. It's the main thing going on the game to this point.

We have 2 weeks left until the deadline. Let's use it wisely. I'd like to hear more from some of the less vocal players, not so much about the investigation plans, but about who they think is the scummiest player at the moment and why.

dRool: I'm still waiting to hear some more from you about your reasons for finding me scummy. (other than, "he seems scummy")
User avatar
Aimless
Aimless
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
Aimless
Townie
Townie
Posts: 46
Joined: April 20, 2007
Location: Wake Forest University

Post Post #177 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:23 am

Post by Aimless »

I second the motion that the less vocal players should weigh in. Failure to do so is anti-town.
User avatar
dRool89
dRool89
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
dRool89
Goon
Goon
Posts: 105
Joined: May 26, 2008

Post Post #178 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:50 am

Post by dRool89 »

I think we should follow Aimless' idea, assuming we don't see a counterclaim. I think it would probably be a bad idea to counterclaim the retired cop role and doubt we'll see it. Honestly, I'm willing to follow the strategy that has the best reason behind it.

I've never played or read a dethy setup so my post count is probably quite a bit lower than (most) everyone else's. I have a few suspicions going currently, but none of them strong enough to warrant a vote.

Unvote Fark


Fark: I was primarily echoing the early arguments against you. They sounded pretty good. Also I was curious how you'd act under pressure.

My apologies for not contributing a lot to discussion, but I feel it is better to withhold unless I have something worthwhile to say. No point in posting if I'm not saying anything.
User avatar
Korlash
Korlash
Krap Logick
User avatar
User avatar
Korlash
Krap Logick
Krap Logick
Posts: 6579
Joined: August 23, 2007
Location: The Constellation of Kasterborous

Post Post #179 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:27 am

Post by Korlash »

My bad on being gone so long. I've been playing with a note pad trying to cross reference votes and try to figure out whos who... didn't work =/

*trashes pad*

Ok back to business. Skruffs arguing intently with someone... never seen that before... >.>

I agree we should get less off plans and more on who seems scummier and what not but I find it hard to read people when all they have been discussing is plans. I mean I've come up with some pretty bad plans before as town i truely believed. So all this arguing really hasn't put anyone in any sort of light to me.
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
User avatar
ZeekLTK
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1879
Joined: June 14, 2007

Post Post #180 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:56 pm

Post by ZeekLTK »

Skruffs wrote:Focussing hte game on confirming sanities and not about h unting scum is going to be useless when everyone knows their sanities and are outnumbered by scum.
So how can you hunt scum if you don't know your sanity? And it won't take that long to narrow down sanities if we are smart about it and follow a good plan (which you are trying to prevent us from doing).
Skruffs wrote:You say "Attack", I say "Logically Refute". I would much rather have all four sane/insane cops targetting different players and CATCH SCUM then to waste two lynches and an entire nights' worth of iinvestigations on 2 players.
*You* would much rather have all four useful cops target different players... so that the odds of them actually determining their sanity is low.

Since the only way to see if you got a correct result is if the person you targeted gets killed, of course it would be nice for scum to have the cops investigate all over the place, that way the chances of the person they investigated actually being killed (especially if it's scum, because they won't be night killed) is very low, and therefore the chances of figuring out their usefulness/sanity is also very low with this 'plan' of yours.
Skruffs wrote:I just want to note that now, RR wants us to not only remove all useful investigations (IE investigations on scum), but also to NOT TELL what the investigations are until day three, when we've lost two ADDITIONAL players (and their investigations), which only helps mafia fake claim more.
No, actually it's the opposite. If everyone claims their results, wouldn't the scum be able to figure out sanities easier than us? Especially if you got your way and we all investigated random people tonight?

I mean, let's say I'm a useful cop and I investigate a random player tonight. Let's say I get a guilty and I say it in the thread.

Then, I have an innocent on TDC and a guilty on [whoever] and I have no idea which of them is scum - but the scum know which of them is scum. So, unless we lynch one of my two targets tomorrow (and that's unlikely, since there will probably be at least another player in the same situation, if not more), then I won't know if I'm sane/insane, but the scum will. Then, the scum will kill me and be able to pretend they are my sanity, because no one else knows it except them.

However, if I get the two results and I keep it to myself, the scum won't know I have two results, they might not even suspect that I got a guilty and proved to be useful, and probably won't kill me. Then I can use my night 3 investigation to figure it out myself (if I get 2 innocents, I'm probably sane, if I get 2 guilties I'm probably insane [since odds are higher of hitting townies]) and then I can come out in the thread and explain my case and my results on Day 3 and nail a scum.
Skruffs wrote:Since Aimless is dead tonight, we might want to lynch Clammy to narrow down HIS sanity to one or two possibilities. If he was a sane cop, clammy may very well be scum.
lol

Aimless won't have any further investigation results, so no matter what clammy's alignment is we won't know anything. If clammy is scum then Aimless was either sane or paranoid. If clammy is town then Aimless was either insane or naive.

There is nothing to possibly learn from this.

I suspect you're just trying to come up with yet *another* horrible plan to get us on the wrong track and lynch the wrong person...

I mean, basically...

-You want us to investigate different people so that very few of us can figure out anything from the results

-You want us to lynch a player that will give us no information on Day 1 (QoS - who no one investigated)

-You want us to lynch a player that will give us no information on Day 2 (clammy - because most likely everyone will investigate Aimless, so no one other than Aimless [who you've already pronounced as tonight's NK] will have investigated clammy at that point)

lol
User avatar
ZeekLTK
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1879
Joined: June 14, 2007

Post Post #181 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:01 pm

Post by ZeekLTK »

Near the end... EBWOP:

-You want us to lynch a player that will give us no information on Day 1 (QoS
or RR
- who no one investigated)

*edit in bold
Tigers ate my signature.
User avatar
clammy
clammy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
clammy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1204
Joined: February 13, 2008
Location: GMT +10

Post Post #182 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:46 pm

Post by clammy »

No input from Tekk for 3 days, Tekk has two investigations against him including my own. Much as lynching me could help determine Aimless' sanity, if you're so convinced Aimless will die isn't it better to give two living players (Korlash, myself) a chance at knowing their sanity?

We could do the same with killing Fark but RR investigated Fark which concerns me.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel

Post Post #183 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:20 am

Post by Skruffs »

Korlash wrote: Ok back to business. Skruffs arguing intently with someone... never seen that before... >.>
Are you serious? Have you missed the other games we were in? Like Food Fight?
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel

Post Post #184 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:33 am

Post by Skruffs »

ZeekLTK wrote: So how can you hunt scum if you don't know your sanity? And it won't take that long to narrow down sanities if we are smart about it and follow a good plan (which you are trying to prevent us from doing).
Believe it or not, scum hvae been caught without the use of cops before.

Crazy, I know, but it relies on something OUTSIDE of mod given information, called "Logical deductin" and "Character analysis". For example, when someone insists that town is incapable of hunting scum without the use of cops, that is usually a reason to AVOID scum hunting and to convince other players from doing it to.

And to counter your question: How are YOU going to know if the person at LYLO in Rabbit's game is Sane or not when they claim to be sane?
Skruffs wrote:You say "Attack", I say "Logically Refute". I would much rather have all four sane/insane cops targetting different players and CATCH SCUM then to waste two lynches and an entire nights' worth of iinvestigations on 2 players.
ZeekLTK wrote: *You* would much rather have all four useful cops target different players... so that the odds of them actually determining their sanity is low.

Since the only way to see if you got a correct result is if the person you targeted gets killed, of course it would be nice for scum to have the cops investigate all over the place, that way the chances of the person they investigated actually being killed (especially if it's scum, because they won't be night killed) is very low, and therefore the chances of figuring out their usefulness/sanity is also very low with this 'plan' of yours.
If four sane/insane cops target four people night one, and four different people night two, that is 8 people out of 8 or 9, investigated. Wow. Everyone is investigated.

Comparatively, if four sane/insane cops investigate four different people night 1, and 1 person night two, and then l ynch that person to ensure they know their sanity, the town has lost one lynch, and 4 potentially successful investigations. You are going the "Easy Route" by saying that it is better to "Confirm sanities", and that confirming sanities should be more of our imperative than to, say, try to catch scum.

I know that I am either insane, or paranoid. If I target scum, tonight, and am insane, I will have have a useable result, tomorrow.

The same goes for QoS.

Fark, who targetted Jenter last night, is either insane, or paranoid. If HE targets scum tonight, he will have a result.

If everyone else wants to focus solely on Aimiless tonight to be sure that they have an INNOCENT investigation under their belt, that's fine, but it seems to me that it would be a lot more efficient to investigate playeres that AREN'T going to be nightkilled.

No, actually it's the opposite. If everyone claims their results, wouldn't the scum be able to figure out sanities easier than us? Especially if you got your way and we all investigated random people tonight?
So you think everyone should all target a known innocent person, so that we all privately know our own sanities, then no claim their results?
You have to compromise
I mean, let's say I'm a useful cop and I investigate a random player tonight. Let's say I get a guilty and I say it in the thread.

Then, I have an innocent on TDC and a guilty on [whoever] and I have no idea which of them is scum - but the scum know which of them is scum. So, unless we lynch one of my two targets tomorrow (and that's unlikely, since there will probably be at least another player in the same situation, if not more), then I won't know if I'm sane/insane, but the scum will. Then, the scum will kill me and be able to pretend they are my sanity, because no one else knows it except them.
And if that happens twice, it's still TWO out of the THREE scum caught. And yes, if someone claims to have two results tomorrow, THEN someone should be lynched; there's a 50% chance of them being scum, and if they aren't, the other person immediately becomes scum and is lynched the next day. But I can totally understand how you might think NOT claiming the result and risk getting Nightkilled the next night, rather than giving town the information it needs to lynch scum, would be preferable. It keeps scum from having to make up safe claims until three or more players are dead, so that they all have 'replacements' anyways.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel

Post Post #185 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:54 am

Post by Skruffs »

QoS, Fark, and myself have to decide who we are going to investigate, or claim to have investigated, during the night.

Lynching clammy would result in Jenter/Aimless as 1 out of 2 possible sanities, but since she is dead tonight anyways, there is no possible way to reduce that possibility any further.

Having a potential of EIGHT investigations to work with tomorrow, as compared to Four, seems like a good idea to me. Forcing scum to fake claim on OTHER players rather than continuing their already-in use fake claim against their n1 players will provide a HELL of a lot more information. Lining ourselves up, in a row, by all wasting one PRECIOUS night's worth of investigations on a known townie who will be dead in the morning (as the only confirmed player, there's no reason for scum not to kill Aimless over anyone else at this point) seems wasteful.


Investigating the same person gives scum one extra day of not having any significantly useable claims... unless a sane or insane cop targetted scum night 1.





Tekk -> Fark | Innocent
Skruffs -> Aimless | Guilty
Aimless -> clammy | Guilty
drool -> Skruffs | Innocent
clammy -> Tekk | Guilty
Korlash -> Tekk | Innocent
TDC -> Zeek | Innocent
Raging Rabbit -> Fark | Innocent
ZeekLTK -> TDC | Innocent
Farkshinsoup -> Jenter | Guilty
queen_of_spades -> Aimless | Guilty
Six innocents, Five guilties.
2 of each are "Standard", from the naive and paranoid cops.
So 4 innocents and 3 guilties, in some order, are the sane and insane cops mixed with the three scum claims.
I am not going to say this for a fact, but it is a fairly safe assumption to think that the scum did not all fake claim the same result...RR and QoS both were hte second people to claimidentical results on the same person, so if me or Tekk dies, obviously RR and QoS could be seen as more likely mafia, who claimed the same results so as to be able to take over that person's role... Just theorizing here.

My scumlist for now is Zeek and RR up top, for being so belligerant and trying to heavy-hand town into agreeing with them even though their plan, to

A) Use up all player investigations on a confirmed townie on one night "So as to confirm sanities"
B) Not reveal results from night 2 until day 3 "So as to not give information to the scum"

Results in town being down TWO nightkilled cops, and an uninformed lynch day two because a player who might know that he is sane or insane (or even more precisely, his exact sanity) would not be revealing information so as to 'not give information' to the scum.


They keep pushing that we can't give information to the scum, but unfortunately, in a game about cops with varying sanities, what we want to do is give EVERYONE as MUCH information as possible.

Every claimed investigation can lead to a successful lynch, wether the person claiming that investigation is Town or Scum.

Forcing players to claim multiple reesults on different players results in scum beign forced to explain why they targetted who they targetted, and to fake claim results on that player.

In the original dethy game, there was 4 town, and 1 scum. The percentage is higher in this game, with 8 town and 3 scum going into day one. Town could "No Lynch" to minimize mislynches and maximize the amount of information begin given out in order to confirm each other's sanities and catch scum., In this game, scum have potentially TWO kills between rounds of investigations: their unstoppable nightkills, and the day's lynch.

On Day one, the best plan, since we have to lynch someone, is to lynch someone who is the most likely to be scum. Investigations, even multiple investigations on the same player, MEAN NOTHING at this point. Trying to say they do is assuming that one person's investigation is more likely to be accurate than another's, which is at this point, 50/50. Also include the faked investigations by scum in the mix, and there is no reason to say that Tekk, Fark, or Aimless should be lynched today. If I had tried to push an Aimless lynch right after QoS revealed that she had targetted aimless, I'd be biting my own tongue right now because Aimless wound up being the retired cop.

So, for TODAY, ignore the amount of results on a player. Those results will be important TOMORROW.

Look instead at who's acting scummy. Who's trying to prevent town from h aving as informed a lynch as possible. Who is trying to misdirect town into using their investigations to 'confirm themselves', rather than using them to search for scum. Who is using emotion, rather than logic, as the basis for their arguments. Etc, Etc, Etc.

Fark: You know that you have investigated a townie already. You are not going to target Aimless tonight, are you?
User avatar
Farkshinsoup
Farkshinsoup
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Farkshinsoup
Goon
Goon
Posts: 913
Joined: April 10, 2008
Location: The Big Smoke, Canuckistan

Post Post #186 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:59 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

I'm becoming more and more convinced that arguments about how we should proceed with investigations are wasting valuable time.

1 - There are so many variables still regarding sanities, scum vs. town, false results, that no one is going to be able to convince everyone (and me specifically) that any one plan is foolproof and is going to work better than any other. That may change after this coming Night, we'll see.

2 - It's also clear that there is no consensus, nor will there be one before we go to night. Some people will investigate Aimless. Some won't. Everyone seems to have their own idea (whether as honest and well meaning town or as duplicitous scum) about which one is the best. This will be helpful down the road when we have some more bodies and we can see what they were arguing for.

3 - One thing that Skruffs is right about - even if we never figure out everyone's (or anyone's) sanities, we can still find scum. I think that it is in scum's best interest to keep us arguing about game mechanics instead of hunting.
Zeek wrote: So how can you hunt scum if you don't know your sanity?
How do you do it in any game where you are not a cop? Are you telling me that you're just going to sit around until your sanity is confirmed? I know that isn't true, because today you are challenging Skruffs and seem to think he's scum.
User avatar
Korlash
Korlash
Krap Logick
User avatar
User avatar
Korlash
Krap Logick
Krap Logick
Posts: 6579
Joined: August 23, 2007
Location: The Constellation of Kasterborous

Post Post #187 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:00 am

Post by Korlash »

Skruffs wrote:Are you serious? Have you missed the other games we were in? Like Food Fight?
... did you miss the clearly sarcastic tone :P
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
User avatar
Korlash
Korlash
Krap Logick
User avatar
User avatar
Korlash
Krap Logick
Krap Logick
Posts: 6579
Joined: August 23, 2007
Location: The Constellation of Kasterborous

Post Post #188 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:08 am

Post by Korlash »

Fark wrote:3 - One thing that Skruffs is right about - even if we never figure out everyone's (or anyone's) sanities, we can still find scum. I think that it is in scum's best interest to keep us arguing about game mechanics instead of hunting.
Finally something I can get behind. The constant arguing over what to do and whos idea is better has kinda pushed me out of the game. i know a coupel others who are not as big ito long lengthy discussions involving numebrs and strategies aren't putting in their best foot either.

While I'll never say in any game I trust Skruffs, i'm currently looking at RR and Zeek as the worst offenders. though... that might be just becuase I agree with Skruffs idea more.

Zeek wrote:Since the only way to see if you got a correct result is if the person you targeted gets killed, of course it would be nice for scum to have the cops investigate all over the place, that way the chances of the person they investigated actually being killed (especially if it's scum, because they won't be night killed) is very low, and therefore the chances of figuring out their usefulness/sanity is also very low with this 'plan' of yours.
Not necessarily. 1st off, you can target the retired cop, and he doesnt have to die to know if you get a correct result.

2ndly: if every plyer targets willy nilly the scum won't have any idea who to NK to keep sanities from being confirmed. However, if every player targets the same person, scum can NK anyone else and not worry about sanities being confirmed that night. Personally I would think scum would want all the investigations on the same person.
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
User avatar
TDC
TDC
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TDC
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2108
Joined: January 25, 2008
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post Post #189 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:27 am

Post by TDC »

Skruffs:
I think that, regardless of who we investigate, we should claim our results tomorrow. We need all the information we can get. I think you have the same opinion in that regard. However, if we do that, than
a) If one of the two investigations was on any of (Jenter, Aimless, today's lynch, tonight's kill) and the other was on someone not in this group and yielded a different result - then we know either the claimer, or the second investigated person is scum.
All other results will not immediately yield scum, but will also not expose usefulness.
b) If however someone claims two different investigations where both investigated players are in said group (or neither), then we (and scum) know he's useful, but not what for.

Clearly a) is preferable to b), and hence I suggest that everyone who has not investigated any of (Jenter, Aimless, today's lynch) investigates Aimless.

Please note: Depending on who we lynch today only 4 to 7 players would investigate Aimless under that system.

You have a point about RR and QoS: I propose that they claim first tomorrow, if still alive.
User avatar
Farkshinsoup
Farkshinsoup
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Farkshinsoup
Goon
Goon
Posts: 913
Joined: April 10, 2008
Location: The Big Smoke, Canuckistan

Post Post #190 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:45 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

TDC wrote:You have a point about RR and QoS: I propose that they claim first tomorrow, if still alive.
I agree.
User avatar
ZeekLTK
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1879
Joined: June 14, 2007

Post Post #191 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:05 am

Post by ZeekLTK »

I love how you put me on your 'scumlist' just because I point out all the flaws in your plan(s).

I especially like how you conveniently ignored my main point about your actions:
ZeekLTK wrote:I suspect you're just trying to come up with yet *another* horrible plan to get us on the wrong track and lynch the wrong person...

I mean, basically...

-You want us to investigate different people so that very few of us can figure out anything from the results

-You want us to lynch a player that will give us no information on Day 1 (QoS or RR - who no one investigated)

-You want us to lynch a player that will give us no information on Day 2 (clammy - because most likely everyone will investigate Aimless, so no one other than Aimless [who you've already pronounced as tonight's NK] will have investigated clammy at that point)
This is exactly what you are trying to get us to do, you didn't even bother to deny it - you just ignored it hoping others would forget about it and just tried to cast me as scummy (OMGUS) like you did to RR earlier.

And about the 'scum hunting', yes obviously it's not impossible to find scum without cops, but when that's all we have, don't you think it's easier if we use them to find scum rather than just completely ignore the fact that everyone ('cept for scum) is a cop?

But anyways, the two aren't mutually exclusive like some seem to think. The thought that we can't scum hunt if we try to determine our sanities (or at least that is what you want the town to think) is incorrect. We can scum hunt, and we are (that is why everyone is talking about possibly lynching Fark), but that doesn't mean we also can't work towards figuring out sanities and thus making it easier on ourselves to catch scum.
Skruffs wrote:If four sane/insane cops target four people night one, and four different people night two, that is 8 people out of 8 or 9, investigated. Wow. Everyone is investigated.
Yeah everyone investigated, and the results spread around so much that no one knows what their sanity is, so the results are completely useless. Wow, that is real helpful isn't it...

And all I said is that we shouldn't massclaim tomorrow to allow scum to determine everyone's sanities when really only a handful of people will be able to determine their own. Tomorrow is the day we should 'scum hunt' and lynch the scummiest person. Today/tonight we should figure out sanities so that useful cops can investigate the scummiest people and determine which ones are actually scum or not.

This is why Tekk is the best lynch today, because it provides the most information (3 people leave the day having a confirmed result: clammy, Korlash, and Fark). If we lynch Aimless (which would be retarded) or Fark it's only 2, and if we lynch anyone else it's 1 or less.
Tigers ate my signature.
User avatar
ZeekLTK
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1879
Joined: June 14, 2007

Post Post #192 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:10 am

Post by ZeekLTK »

TDC wrote:b) If however someone claims two different investigations where both investigated players are in said group (or neither), then we (and scum) know he's useful, but not what for.
See, that is what I am worried about.

Using me as an example, let's say for some reason I don't investigate Aimless and I investigate a random player that is still alive tomorrow.

Let's say I get a guilty.

If I say it in the thread, then I have an innocent on TDC and a guilty on [whoever]. No one except the scum knows which of those players are scum. Unless we lynch one of them tomorrow, then I will be killed at night and no one will know which one is scum... and the scum will probably try to push to get the one who isn't scum lynched...

It's not a good situation.

However, if everyone does investigate Aimless then that is not as likely to happen. But, Skruffs is trying to tell us we should all randomly investigate players that most likely won't be dead tomorrow, so there is a higher chance of b) happening rather than a) if we listen to him.
Tigers ate my signature.
User avatar
Raging Rabbit
Raging Rabbit
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Raging Rabbit
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1719
Joined: January 18, 2007

Post Post #193 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:00 pm

Post by Raging Rabbit »

This game is about hunting scum, true, but ignoring the
4
useful cops is incredibly stupid. In order for those cops to mean anything, they need to have a confirmed result - meaning a result of someone whose alignment is known, either deacesed or confirmed inncocent - to help them figure out their sanities. All the cross investigations in the world aren't gonna help any if people are unsure whether they're sane or not.
Therefore, one of the factors in our lynch today is to lynch someone whose been investigated a lot, so more cops have a confirmed result. Still, we can't ignore usual scumhunting, which I why I prefer lynching Fark over Tekk despite Tekk's lynch being better in the pure "sanity" sense.

I find Fark scummy because of his initial objection to mass claim, along with his eventual claim that he investigated the dead guy. I'm also not convinced by his defense, which I find to contain little true substance.

Another player I find scummy is Skruffs, which I don't think should be lynched because he hasn't been invetigated at all. Skruffs is scummy not for disagreeing with me, everyone is free to do so, but for pushing his points far too strongly, thereby bending facts to fit his view or just flat out ignoring them, and attacking everyone who think differently.
For example, Skruffs continually claims that if we follow my idea, we'll be on LYLO on day 3, which is untrue. I never suggested lynching townies on porpuse, following my plan means lynching two scummy players (with the setback of having to choose one of them a day early) and figuring our sanities along the way. Of course we could misslynch twice and end up at LYLO, but the chances of that aren't significantly higher than those of any other plan, and we end up with tons of
useful
info on day 3 which conpenstates for day 2's early chocice of lynch. That plan is now irrelevant, but this is only one example of many of Skruffs twisting the facts to suit his views. I'll probably do a more detailed analysis on this when I'll have more time.

Skruffs - if my plan is so absurd and anti town that everyone who advocates it is automatically scummy, what do you make of Aimless, who strongly supports it? Do you think our only confirmed innocent is trying to manipulate the town?


I strongly suggests that anyone who doesn't have a confirmed result after today's lynch investigate Aimless tonight.
User avatar
Aimless
Aimless
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
Aimless
Townie
Townie
Posts: 46
Joined: April 20, 2007
Location: Wake Forest University

Post Post #194 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:23 pm

Post by Aimless »

I still think Fark is scummy, but...

Unvote
Vote: Skruffs


Too many bad proposals, and I think he knows better.
User avatar
dRool89
dRool89
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
dRool89
Goon
Goon
Posts: 105
Joined: May 26, 2008

Post Post #195 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:38 pm

Post by dRool89 »

RR, there was a small mistake in your post. It is somewhat mundane, but:

You said skruffs hadnt been investigated at all. I investigated skruffs. I got a innocent, but that might not mean anything.
User avatar
Raging Rabbit
Raging Rabbit
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Raging Rabbit
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1719
Joined: January 18, 2007

Post Post #196 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:54 pm

Post by Raging Rabbit »

Sorry drool, missed that. I'm still slightly in favor of Fark's lynch, since I currently find both about equaly scummy and Fark's been investigated twice (also, I obviously want to confirm my own sanity since I can't be sure anyone else is pro-town).
User avatar
Raging Rabbit
Raging Rabbit
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Raging Rabbit
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1719
Joined: January 18, 2007

Post Post #197 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:56 pm

Post by Raging Rabbit »

EBDP: Anyone else except Aimless, who'll most probably get NK'd and thus lynching the person he investigated won't gain us anything since he won't be able to supply us with further results from beyond the grave.
User avatar
Aimless
Aimless
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
Aimless
Townie
Townie
Posts: 46
Joined: April 20, 2007
Location: Wake Forest University

Post Post #198 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:10 pm

Post by Aimless »

Raging Rabbit wrote:Sorry drool, missed that. I'm still slightly in favor of Fark's lynch, since I currently find both about equaly scummy and Fark's been investigated twice (also, I obviously want to confirm my own sanity since I can't be sure anyone else is pro-town).
They're
both
scummy, but Skruffs strikes me as the better player. The more we argue about the plan, the more chances he has to confuse people.

Although I
am
into big lengthy discussions involving numbers and strategies (I'm a Physicist, after all; I'm more fluent in math than I am in English), Korlash is right when he says it can become a distraction from the game, and I think we're well past that point already.

So, I would propose something simple, and that I think we all agree on: everyone whose sanity has not been otherwise confirmed investigates me tonight; the rest investigates as they please. Beyond that, we lynch today based solely on scummy behavior, and disregard the rest.
User avatar
Korlash
Korlash
Krap Logick
User avatar
User avatar
Korlash
Krap Logick
Krap Logick
Posts: 6579
Joined: August 23, 2007
Location: The Constellation of Kasterborous

Post Post #199 (ISO) » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:34 pm

Post by Korlash »

Aye, the investigations tonight are more or less clear to everyone. No further ocmment on who should be investigated "should" be needed.

I'm afraid that too much has already come out of these "plan" discussions that scum dars are all screwy already.
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!

Return to “Completed Mini Normal Games”