Mafia 79 - "The Amish Mafia" GAME OVER... WHO WON?

[The Fonz]

Battle Mage, you're completely wrong.

THe mason ABSOLUTELY SHOULD CLAIM.

How will you feel about a mason claim from a player run up a few days claims mason?

The point of masons is that they are confirmable. Since we can't confirm them since we've had two masons die without claiming, it becomes a very handy safeclaim for scum, since there is nothing to counteract it.

Therefore, I want them to claim TODAY, when the mason claim is least advantageous for scum. If there is no claim today, we should lynch on sight anyone claiming to be part of that masonry later. Capiche?

[The Fonz]

Ed: unless there is a fourth member to back them up.

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, you're completely wrong.

THe mason ABSOLUTELY SHOULD CLAIM.

How will you feel about a mason claim from a player run up a few days claims mason?

The point of masons is that they are confirmable. Since we can't confirm them since we've had two masons die without claiming, it becomes a very handy safeclaim for scum,

since there is nothing to counteract it.

Therefore, I want them to claim TODAY, when the mason claim is least advantageous for scum. If there is no claim today, we should lynch on sight anyone claiming to be part of that masonry later. Capiche?

*sigh*

Fonz, please dont do a CKD. I have a LOT of respect for you, but if you argue with me

when i'm right

, you wont come out of it feeling great.

With regard to the underlined comment, it is clear that you didnt read my last post fully, as i pointed out there that a mason claim now would be very hard to pull off as a fakeclaim, as it would rest not only on the consistency of that individuals interaction with 1 mason, but

2

!

Hence, it is incredibly short-sighted and foolish to ask for a mason claim today, IF we even have more of them. Especially with a dead Doctor, what good is a confirmed innocent to us? They'll just get killed tonight. Id much rather they breadcrumbed now, and if we get a claim later, when a confirmed innocent is actually useful to us, then we can check it out, and all is well.

The great thing about this situation is that any mason claim can be virtually confirmed simply by reading the game. A mason claim now is suicide. Any mason who claims now is clearly a terrible player, who has a deathwish. Anyone who pushes a mason-claim now, is either really missing the bigger picture, or is scum.

Oh and ooc, please dont use the word kapish against me. Not only is it one of my favourite words, but your spelling of it was criminal.

BM

[Alabaska J]

If BG86 HAD read all the posts condemning mellow man, and hammered him anyway, it's pretty clear she felt what she was doing was right, and didn't give a crap what people thought. Protown imho.

I'm assuming you meant zombie, not mellow man. Also, Seeing as he was mason, I'm sure we could have coaxed him into claiming. I'm wouldn't be surprised if Zombie's animosity towards claiming comes from newbie games, where scum counterclaim often. I'm sure with a little logic and persuasion we could have easily gotten a claim from him. However, we got a hammer instead from babygirl86. It doesn't matter if she doesn't "give a crap" what other people think because she believes she is right; just because she believes she is right doesn't make her right. Also, how can you say her hammering is protown? It could easily be (and more probably is) scum jumping on an opportunity to hammer.

[The Fonz]

No, I said mellow man, i MEANT mellow man.

[Alabaska J]

When was mellowed man hammered then? Please enlighten me.

[The Fonz]

Mellow man wasn't, obviously. Zombie was.

Replacing pronouns:

If BG86 HAD read all the posts condemning mellow man [for apparently hammering Zombie], and hammered him [Zombie] anyway, it's pretty clear she felt what she was doing was right, and didn't give a crap what people thought. Protown imho.

[The Fonz]

*sigh*

Fonz, please dont do a CKD. I have a LOT of respect for you, but if you argue with me

when i'm right

, you wont come out of it feeling great.

With regard to the underlined comment, it is clear that you didnt read my last post fully, as i pointed out there that a mason claim now would be very hard to pull off as a fakeclaim, as it would rest not only on the consistency of that individuals interaction with 1 mason, but

2

!

Except that no-one really attacked Erratus, and a large number of players just lurked through the day.

Hence, it is incredibly short-sighted and foolish to ask for a mason claim today, IF we even have more of them. Especially with a dead Doctor, what good is a confirmed innocent to us? They'll just get killed tonight. Id much rather they breadcrumbed now, and if we get a claim later, when a confirmed innocent is actually useful to us, then we can check it out, and all is well.

The whole, DAMNED, point, is that they are not confirmed innocent because there's no-one else to confirm them! And a dead mason is not a dead cop.

The great thing about this situation is that any mason claim can be virtually confirmed simply by reading the game. A mason claim now is suicide. Any mason who claims now is clearly a terrible player, who has a deathwish. Anyone who pushes a mason-claim now, is either really missing the bigger picture, or is scum.

Oh and ooc, please dont use the word kapish against me. Not only is it one of my favourite words, but your spelling of it was criminal.

BM

BM, my spelling of it was CORRECT.

Capiche?

[The Fonz]

Missed out that middle section:

If you can reduce the number of possible mason partners to one by reading just ONE DAY of interactions, when half the town lurked, I'd be very surprised.

[Alabaska J]

I understand now. However, you're assuming she read those posts and didn't just see "oops I forgot to unvote well I'll do that now so we (the mafia) get a lynch on this sucker before he can claim/be convinced to claim." This is what I believe happened.


Never played a forum game with masons (that I know of; one of my on-goings may have some I guess but they haven't come up) but one thing is confusing me about the mason situation: how do we know there is another mason?

[The Fonz]

We don't. This is my point.

Mason groups are almost invariably 2 people in minis, and usually 2-3 in larges, with the occasional 4-man. Now, if we've got 4, we don't have a problem.

So, assuming we don't have four, we might have 2, and might have 3. Either is as likely. If we have only two, it's obviously possible for scum to claim to be the third, so long as that player wasn't on the Zombiewagon.

Meaning, if we wait, we won't be able to trust the mason claim anyway, so we might as well get it out if there is one.

[Alabaska J]

But we aren't able to trust it now either…save a counterclaim situation we will end up with wifom.

[The Fonz]

It's very unlikely a scum could claim it now and get away with it. Too long, possibility of SK/multiple scumgroups and so on. Later, maybe.

[q21]

I think the mason claiming argument is fairly pointless. The chances of a claim being corroborated are small, almost nothing really. How likely are we to believe anyone who claims mason from this point on... not very. Whether they claim now or later doesn't make much difference from what I can tell.

[mr. incrediball]

i don't see how it would be particularly benificial for the remaining mason (assuming there is one) to claim or stay silent. after all, with both their partners dead, they're nothing more than a vanilla now.

on a side note, i don't think there are/were 3 masons in the first place. if there were 3, it would be more likely that one of them would back up zs.

[Mellowed Man]

The only reason I had to hammer was because I made a mistake voting the first time and didn't unvote. if I hadn't made the mistake, I wouldnt have had to revote. mellowed, on the other hand if it weren't for my mistake would have hammered. Mellowed didn't make a mistake and planned on hammering anyway. I hammered to a) finalize my vote and b) vote for someone that I truly believed was scum.

vote mellowed man

I don't think a mason should claim, as I think if a scum claimed it, no confirmations would be made. For all I know, there could be two mason groups in this game.



I have one experience with Babygirl86 in which she makes extremely scummy posts, then claims cop when she has to "go on a vacation" and is afraid she will get lynched. Obviously, she doesn't really take into account what we say in the game, as she has all her facts mixed up.

[mr. incrediball]

babygirl seems to act scummy in a lot of games. in another game i was playing BG seemed incredibly scummy, the turned out to be a cop.

so, i'm reluctant to vote her, but

fos babygirl

nonetheless.

[Battle Mage]

*sigh*

Fonz, please dont do a CKD. I have a LOT of respect for you, but if you argue with me

when i'm right

, you wont come out of it feeling great.

With regard to the underlined comment, it is clear that you didnt read my last post fully, as i pointed out there that a mason claim now would be very hard to pull off as a fakeclaim, as it would rest not only on the consistency of that individuals interaction with 1 mason, but

2

!

Except that no-one really attacked Erratus, and a large number of players just lurked through the day.

Did Erratus lurk?

Hence, it is incredibly short-sighted and foolish to ask for a mason claim today, IF we even have more of them. Especially with a dead Doctor, what good is a confirmed innocent to us? They'll just get killed tonight. Id much rather they breadcrumbed now, and if we get a claim later, when a confirmed innocent is actually useful to us, then we can check it out, and all is well.

The whole, DAMNED, point, is that they are not confirmed innocent because there's no-one else to confirm them! And a dead mason is not a dead cop.

OMFG. Dude, please stay awake!!
If there are multiple masons remaining, as you have put forth as a possibility, they CAN confirm each other in that sense. Furthermore, if there is only 1 more mason left, we can confirm them through their interaction with the other 2 masons. It may not be viable, but even if it ISNT viable in practice, if you shut up about it now, perhaps the scum wont endeavour to find out and either wont fakeclaim mason, or will fakeclaim mason in a way which we can easily spot as bogus. Christ almighty.... 0.o

The great thing about this situation is that any mason claim can be virtually confirmed simply by reading the game. A mason claim now is suicide. Any mason who claims now is clearly a terrible player, who has a deathwish. Anyone who pushes a mason-claim now, is either really missing the bigger picture, or is scum.

Oh and ooc, please dont use the word kapish against me. Not only is it one of my favourite words, but your spelling of it was criminal.

BM

BM, my spelling of it was CORRECT.

Capiche?[/quote]

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capisce

Capisce? lol

[Battle Mage]

Missed out that middle section:

If you can reduce the number of possible mason partners to one by reading just ONE DAY of interactions, when half the town lurked, I'd be very surprised.

what part of this are you not getting? WE DON'T NEED TO NARROW IT DOWN TO ONE. Hell, it doesnt matter if 3 or 4 people match the description-hopefully the others wont claim mason and we'll narrow it down that way. This entire conversation is grossly anti-town...

BM

[Battle Mage]

i don't see how it would be particularly benificial for the remaining mason (assuming there is one) to claim or stay silent. after all, with both their partners dead, they're nothing more than a vanilla now.

on a side note, i don't think there are/were 3 masons in the first place. if there were 3, it would be more likely that one of them would back up zs.

actually thats a valid point.

A mason left now is as good as vanilla, and if the scum NK them, they are basically wasting an NK. So, it might actually be worthwhile to put a confirmed innocent up as an NK target in order to protect any other power roles we might have. I'm going to analyse the entire game over the next few hous hopefully. Depending on what i find, i MIGHT allow Fonz's plan to proceed.

BM

[Mellowed Man]

Babygirl is lurking, and I think my vote will be there for now:

Vote Babygirl

[babygirl86]

I'm not lurking I just have nothing to say. Obviuously you have your minds made up that I'm scum, even though mellowed did the same thing I did. I did what I believed was right..... com on guys. how many games have you all played in where a townie placed the hammering vote? If I was scum, why would I place the hammer only to have fingers pointed at me? It may seem like a scum move, but in reality I've seen a hell of a lot more townies hammer than mafia. and by the way you think I'm lurking, but look at how many others have yet to say anything? And by the way mellowed.... don't even bring up our previous game. You imply that I lied about going on vacation... look at every single game I was playing in at the time... I posted about my vacation in every one of them.

[Mellowed Man]

Fine. If you are going to resort to Meta, how about first you read what's been said? I did NOT do the same thing you did...

You sound like a pleading scum in that post. I never said you lied about going on vacation in your other game. I can Meta you too. You sounded very cheerful in your other game when you were actually trying to "defend yourself" and just said "here, if you are going to lynch me, I'm going to claim now." In this game, your last post was very uncharacteristic. The fact that you are resorting to this conversation is just LOW.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Mellowed Man

Couldnt be more obvious scum if he claimed Godfather.



BM

[Mellowed Man]

Unvote, Vote: Mellowed Man

Couldnt be more obvious scum if he claimed Godfather.



BM

Fos

BM. Do you always play this way? If so, you need to use more logic. I don't see what you are saying. I was saying that Babygirl did not act this way, and as she was trying to META me with no logic whatsoever, I can meta her back and say that she acted differently in another game as Town.

Haha.

First off, do you have something personal against The Fonz? It sure seems that way. Those exchanges between you two seemed to be more on a personal level, outside the game spectrum.