Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[Dasquian]

All you've said is that

if

you're pro-town, you have the best of motives. Which is just the original assumption.

[Guardian]

All you've said is that

if

you're pro-town, you have the best of motives. Which is just the original assumption.

You've failed to demonstrate in any manner that Coron wasn't my best guess of possible lynches as to which would be a scum lynch. It was, so I tried to, and succeeded in, making it happen.

[Dasquian]

You're doing a remarkable job of trying to excuse your part in deadline-lynching a power-role. Blah blah, best guess, blah blah. You shouldn't have been doing any "best guesses" when...

It was eight hours to lynch.
Most people weren't there.
He claimed tracker.

You got him strung up. I should've hammered Near when I had the chance; it would at least have been a true majority of the town.

[Guardian]

Claiming power role =/= town, 'specially under the circumstances he claimed, and considering his other actions.

Do you disagree that it is trivially obvious that Near is town, now?

Do you disagree that DBE was a worse lynch than Coron?

Do you disagree that those were the three realistic options?

blah blah blah blah "true majority". I wanted a "good lynch". I didn't think those "coincided" in "lynching Near".

[PyroDwarf]

yikes. I did not see that comming. While I did say that i did not like people claiming without pressure, I don't think it was a good reason to lynch coron. Mac, DBE, and near, why did you let guardian's insistance lead your hand? Just because someone post over and over that someone is scum, especially the way guardian was, doesn't mean you should vote for them. My vote has been on guardian for a while now, and I think I'll be keeping it there.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am really not happy with our results, and I feel played.

My results last night, As the watcher, revealed not much, no one else targeted the player that I did.

I am in a toss up as to who I think is scum,
I am very suspicious of a Mac/Dasquain alliance due to the comment (by Mac)

Im still unwilling to vote Dasquian, so you can forget that option.

(Post 670)

I am a bit suspicious of Guardian, but not certain of anything at this point.

[Guardian]

Darla, who did you target last night?

[Joudas]

Hey guys, good morning. So, I'm town.....

Um, no really.

Oh, okay, then.

Well, that 10-page lynch party extravaganza last night was a little surprising. I'm going to have to go with Dasquian on this one, though - let me address something Guardian asked in his own defense:

Do you disagree that it is trivially obvious that Near is town, now?

Do you disagree that DBE was a worse lynch than Coron?

Do you disagree that those were the three realistic options?

Now it is trivially obvious that Near is town. Last night this was not the case.
DBE was a worse lynch then Coron.
These were the three realistic options.

However, now it is trivially obvious that Coron was town, too - last night this was also not the case. The first one doesn't really hold up.

Personally, between the two of them? Near would have been a better option, in my opinion. A claimed power role is not a good option for a lynch - a claimed vanilla townie is a much better choice given the two. I find it fairly suspicious that you chose the PR over the townie. His claim was unnecessary, yes - and it was suspicious, but seriously. Now we're down an information role, left with (probably) just the Watcher. We also need to seriously hope we have a doc, or we stand to lose her, too, soon.

I'd really like to hear a retrospective from the other three folks on the bandwagon to lynch Coron. We heard from DBE a bit already.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I targeted Dasquian. I am very suspicious of him and Mac.

I think Guardian could possibly be scum but it doesn't fit as well in my mind.

Near is probably a townie, but could be scum I suppose, though I find it doubtful.

I now wish I hadn't been so suspicious of Coron, but he did play it in a manor that promoted suspicion.

[Guardian]

Joudas, to me Coron being better than Near was obvious last night:

I'm willing to stake the game on this:

There is no way coron is town and near is scum. If that comes to pass, lynch me, and then lynch me for real after the game ends.

That sentiment and the logic behind it made Coron the preferred lynch.

[mikeburnfire]

vote: Guardian

[Guardian]

...

What's that mean? Are you annoyed that you are responsible for a tracker lynch, and going to lash out at me now for my leading question, or for daring to suspect you for supporting the same lynch I did?

Going to respond to this?:

Guardian,

I disagree with you on everything so far this game

. Coron is scummy, I don't want to lynch Near, I don't think Dasq is suspicious, and I don't want to lynch DBE now that she's claimed a power role, but there's only 8 hours until the deadline.

I agree with you on 3/4 of the above (all but Duck)... Your attacks on me this game have been irrational and ill founded...

Coron's play has just stunk.

I'd support lynching him over Near if it came to that.

However, I believe we have

3.5 hours

, not 10 still, as people are saying.

So anything that happens's gotta happen fast. I'll be on for about an hour, and will make my final vote then.

According to the mod's rules, 4 votes = lynch at dealdine, so as long as someone is >= than that, they die.

So I take it that you are just gonna lash out?

Interesting.

[Near]

Wow. I didn't die. Usually it's to scum's advantage to NK a confirmed townie, obviously. I wonder why Evilgorillaz was chosen. He wasn't very active in this game. Perhaps scums are among ones who didn't get much suspicions Day 1 and wanted to keep it that way.

Anyway, if I were to choose between Macvanger and Guardian, Macvanger is WAY more scummy. Guardian's style of play is more volatile, which is, if he's a townie, an euphemism for confused. As we know, there were multiple times during Day 1 when he expressed his certainity for one of the players being scum. I think either he's a scum who has built up his "volatile" character just to get away with something like lynching power role near the deadline OR he's a confused townie who cares more about getting praises from the town for finding a rare scum by lynching a player who has claimed a power role than winning this game. Honestly, I think the latter is more likely.

Macvenger on the other hand, is more stable. His posts are constructive, and although I disagree with most things he said about me in an attempt to get me lynched, I don't think he's the type that would waiver so easily by Guardian's evidence-lacking "let's kill Coron because he's scum. i know it" argument.

Unvote

Vote Macvenger

[DarlaBlueEyes]

as said in my previous Post I didn't like Mac's statement about Dasq, and I think near makes a good point,

Vote Macavenger

[mikeburnfire]

What's that mean?

I didn't know what to say. What happened after I left that night is truly ridiculous.

Are you annoyed that you are responsible for a tracker lyn-

Fuck no. I'm not responsible for the tracker lynch. My vote was on Coron as a protest vote because I didn't want to lynch either of the main candidates. Even though I didn't trust Coron and heavily advocated his lynch, the way in which it was achieved was utter stupidity. He went from zero votes to majority votes in under 12 hours. Had I been awake around this time of deadline I would have unvoted him based on this evidence alone.

Going to respond to this?

Your inability to commit to your suspicions was what I was referring to. Your on-and-off of Near, DBE, Dasq, and Mac mainly. Your explanation of having "minimal preference as to who dies among my top 3/4 suspects" wasn't good enough for me.

My vote on you, Guardian, was because you coerced DBE to reveal her watcher results on Dasq. But now I remember that watchers don't watch what their target does, just the people who target their target. I got tracker and watcher confused.

Unvote

for now.

[mikeburnfire]

Mac, DBE, and near, why did you let guardian's insistance lead your hand? - PyroDwarf

Actually, Mac was the one who empowered Guardian to switch to Coron. It was only after Mac assured Guardian that Near would be lynched anyway if there wasn't enough support on Coron that he started strongarming it.

Anyway, I'm kinda not really suspicious of Guardian right now. Why push for a Coron lynch when he could have chosen between Near and DBE, yah? Near is not confirmed, but definitely likely to be town. DBE's claim is null for me. I might vote Mac later, though I don't see any real evidence for a mac-duck scumgroup.

Sleep now.

[Dasquian]

It's true that Near's sacrificial votes yesterday seemed like something no scum would do for a power-role if there was a real chance of it turning into a genuine sacrifice. However, I'm uncomfortable totally accepting that as fact. Particularly as even in his last post he seems to be cashing in on it

In response to Guardian:

- Yes, it's "trivially obvious" Near is town (but see above), but I still think he was a better lynch.
- DBE was a worse lynch than Coron, but that didn't make Coron a good lynch.
- I agree that Near, Coron and DBE were the only viable deadline lynch candidates, however, see what court you've put this into?

It's not good town play to be doing deadline lynches!

The quick turnaround and last minute games means what happened didn't reflect on everyone in the town. We had a near-majority lynch of Near, and it would've told us a lot more about more people than your deadline lynch of Coron, and at worst, we would've lost a townie.

Did I mention you deadline-lynched a claimed power-role, btw?

In response to mbf: The benefit of lynching Coron over Near/DBE is that we lynched a tracker. Perhaps he felt that DBE was too much of an unknown quantity to push for a lynch and get away with, but Coron had been under enough fire that he could retroactively justify his lynch and get rid of a potentially ruinous power-role.

I don't see the case on MacAvenger. tbh most of his posts have seemed pretty townie and sensible to me, and in line with my own thoughts. His part in the deadline lynch is scummy but he did at least hold out on the complete idiocy of lynching me, when I reckon DBE, Near and Guardian would all have gone for that. The reason I say idiocy isn't egoism about myself; just my status as an unclaimed player.

[Claus]

Vote Count!

Macavenger 2 - Near, DBE
Guardian 1 - Dasquian

Not voting:

Guardian, Joudas, Macavenger, MBF, Singing Librarian, Pyrodwarf, Yossarian2,

With 10 players alive, it is 6 to lynch!

[Yosarian2]

Yos:

Coron is scum because the timing at which he claimed is something that would only be done by a scummy, scummy, scumbag.

Townies only claim when near deadline or at lynch -1 at threat of them being lynched.

Coron claimed a while before deadline, and because he "felt pressured by my attac" of one vote

town players who do this draw the doc to them, MAYBE, IF THERE IS ONE, and have given the scum more info. there is damn little reason for a townie to do what Coron did.

scum otoh would hope to deflect all attention from them, since "ooh they are a power role". also, draw doc protect is AWESOME for scum, free range to kill whomever. Also they might draw out another investigative role like you said. if a cop for instance claimed, coron could be like "OH, but COP + tracker = legit". ANd wouldnt even be lycnhed maybe, and get a counterclaimd cop.

Town ==> VERY LITTLE to gain from claiming.
Scum ==> SUPER LOTS to gain from claiming.
Premise: Coron is a rational agent
Conclusion: Coron, acting rationally, only would have claimed like he did as scum.

Voterz for coorn

Yeah, that never really made sense to me. A scum, who's in no real danger of being lynched, would be taking a huge risk in claiming something like that for very little real gain. A claim like that is very, very hard to safelty fake for more then a day or two.

ANd I don't think it ever makes sense to lynch someone BECAUSE they claim a pro-town power role, unless you already thought he was scum beforehand. I really think that of all the people who suddenly wanted Coron dead after he claimed an info role, that at least some of them were almost certanly scum who wanted him dead because they knew he was telling the truth.

Also, you keep saying "Coron was a better lynch then Near". I don't think either Coron or Near was a good lynch yesterday, and I didn't think so then either. But it's a false choice; considering how quickly you and mikeburnfire whipped up that Coron wagon out of nowhere, there's no reason to think you couldn't have lynched someone else before deadline instead.

Claiming power role =/= town, 'specially under the circumstances he claimed, and considering his other actions.

No, but someone claiming a power role, without much of a case agsinst them, is an absolutly horrible day 1 lynch.

And by the way, what "other actions"? Your case against him seemed to consist entierly of his claim.

[Yosarian2]

Are you annoyed that you are responsible for a tracker lyn-

Fuck no. I'm not responsible for the tracker lynch. My vote was on Coron as a protest vote because I didn't want to lynch either of the main candidates. Even though I didn't trust Coron and heavily advocated his lynch, the way in which it was achieved was utter stupidity. He went from zero votes to majority votes in under 12 hours. Had I been awake around this time of deadline I would have unvoted him based on this evidence alone.

In a word, bull. You didn't lynch Coron just because you didn't want to lynch Near. You started going after Coron hard as soon as he claimed, and your logic made even less sense then Guardian's.

The ONLY actual case you made against Coron yesterday was entierly based on a theory that Coron was scum WITH Near, and that Coron claimed in order to "disrput the wagon on Near". As soon as you decided Near was town, your only even remotaly logical case agianst Coron basically ceased to exist, but that didn't even seem to deter you.

At the moment, looking back at yesterday and looking at Mike's attack on Guardian right away today, my hunch is that Mike was the scum trying to get the town to lynch the information role, and that his plan was always to try to get Guardian to take the fall for him.

vote:Mikeburnfire

[mikeburnfire]

Whatever.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

not a very good answer mike....

[mikeburnfire]

Coron's play made no sense and had no pro-town benefit. The closest theory I could come up with is that he was trying to cause chaos and disorder.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I agree that is how it seemed and I felt the same at the time it happened, so I don't disagree with your logic, just your reaction to Yosh was a bit iffy.

[mikeburnfire]

That's because I don't trust him. He's playing his cards close to his chest, and he's trying to force an attack on me right now, saying that I helped whip up the sudden Coron lynch (which I didn't, I just cast the first vote and left) and voting me for trying to lynch a power role (which is easy to do only now that I've been proven wrong).