Mafia 79 - "The Amish Mafia" GAME OVER... WHO WON?

[Korts]

/generic funny confirming comment


Uh, Evilgorillaz, isn't Sabbath on saturdays?

[Korts]

What I meant is, don't people call only Saturday Sabbath? I seem to remember how there's a different word if it's on Sunday. On the other hand, I may just be stupid.

[Korts]

OT: Korts - the Jews regard Saturday as the Sabbath (actually sundown Friday to sundown Saturday according to Western reckoning), as do some small groups like the Seventh Day Adventists and Seventh Day Baptists. Catholics and most Protestants believe the Sabbath was changed to Sunday with the resurrection of Christ. Some Protestants believe Sabbath observance is no longer required. I am not aware of any non Judeo-Christian religions having a Sabbath concept. As for the Amish, I'm not certain, but I think they follow the Jewish Sabbath.

Jason

They are, they're old order mennonites. But seventh-day adventists are Protestants too, and they have a saturday sabbath.

Cool.

[Korts]

Hey, nice bandwagon on Korts you got here!

Vote: Korts

Also, what q21 said.

[Korts]

About this whole random vote thing. I think it's really a null tell. And yeah, if people would want to make a case out of it, they could say there must be a connection between you and babygirl, or maybe babygirl wants to buddy up to you by lynching whoever you want to. All the same, I'm not really fazed by a, what, L-7?

I'm uncertain how many votes are needed for a lynch with 20 people, and Korts is already at four votes. So I'll abstain from voting, for now. I do find it interesting that Korts is voting for himself however. Why do that this early?

Right, so I should vote myself later, when I become more suspicious. Very smart play, attacking yourself. Wait, am I being hypocritical?

And before anybody asks "ZOMG VALIANTVALANT, WHY DID YOU MAKE A RESPONSE. YOU'RE BEING TOO DEFENSIVE, LOL." The reason why I responded was to continue the discussion. Discussion helps Townies catch Mafiosos, as it gives more of a chance for them to slip up.

I don't think you're being too defensive, to tell you the truth. Just too serious. It's all gonna work out, you know. Just relax. Trust me. I'm your best and only friend. If you vote who I say, you'll get a candy. Just lay back and let me do the lynching. All I need is your vote, here, in my pocket, k?

[Korts]

Confirm vote: Korts

He's a hypocrite. Seriously, get your facts straight, man.

[Korts]

Unvote: Korts

he just hasn't replied to my accusations. No point in bandwagoning him this way.

I have a hunch VV is just an overactive player due to his sickness. I will

Vote: ValiantValant

and when he gets well from his sickness (I'm sick but getting better at the moment) I will maybe think about removing my vote.

Vote: Mellowed Man

You acknowledge VV's excuse for posting every two minutes, and after that, you vote him implying that your motive for voting him is the same reason you dismissed by acknowledging his sickness?

You're

a hypocrite too, aren't you?

[Korts]

Unvote, Vote: Riceballtail

for complaining about VV's talking too much. Attempting to prevent/lessen discussion is scummy.

FoS: Mellowed Man

for the same reason.

ZS: Why are you attacking Surye for pushing for the Korts wagon, but not Korts for also pushing for the Korts wagon?

Uh, was/is Surye pushing my wagon? I thought he was after VV.

[Korts]

Unvote, Vote: Riceballtail

for complaining about VV's talking too much. Attempting to prevent/lessen discussion is scummy.

FoS: Mellowed Man

for the same reason.

ZS: Why are you attacking Surye for pushing for the Korts wagon, but not Korts for also pushing for the Korts wagon?

Uh, was/is Surye pushing my wagon? I thought he was after VV.

I questioned VV's actions and got on your bandwagon.

Oh, didn't notice your vote. But hey, way to be consequent.

[Korts]

Hey valiantvalant, you broke my wifomometer. That'll be £99.99 ($197.06) please.

Also :-

And before anybody asks "ZOMG VALIANTVALANT, WHY DID YOU MAKE A RESPONSE. YOU'RE BEING TOO DEFENSIVE, LOL." The reason why I responded was to continue the discussion. Discussion helps Townies catch Mafiosos, as it gives more of a chance for them to slip up.

Why do you defend youself before you have been accused? You were indeed being too defensive, but it only came from defending yourself against the accusation of being too defensive before anybody had accused you of it.

Unvote Vote ValiantValant

I have a hunch VV is just an overactive player due to his sickness. I will Vote: ValiantValant and when he gets well from his sickness (I'm sick but getting better at the moment) I will maybe think about removing my vote.

Please explain you're VV vote. If it because he talks to much then a) it is a bad reason to vote and b) Korts is right, you are a hypocrite. If it isn't I would like to know what is. Just without a good reason it seems you are voting because there is a nice juicy wagon.

FoS MellowedMan

I don't know about you, but to me, jumping on a wagon with a crappy reason is way scummier than being defensive. Anyway, it's your vote, whatever you think is best.

[Korts]

All this conversation's fine and dandy, but this debate about theory and such eventually leads to nowhere. Today's lynch is Mellowed Man, come on, people!

[Korts]

All this conversation's fine and dandy, but this debate about theory and such eventually leads to nowhere. Today's lynch is Mellowed Man, come on, people!

I could get onto a Mellowed Man wagon, same for VV for his wifom and over-defensiveness, but I'd prefer Celeboki because he's a self-professed lurker who's tried to justify his lurking with, "I want to see what's going to happen."

I would say your right on that, Like I stated before I have seen people play overzealously and get noticed heavily, then accrue votes, then be revealed to be town.

I am not defending VV at all but as for myself I am not going to claim a side and remain neutral at this time. I just haven't seen any heavily incriminating play yet.

The underlining is mine. To me it basically says that he's not going to get involved until there's an opening for him to get involved without looking scummy at all. Anyone agree/disagree with me on that?[/u]

/Agree, yeah. I see what you're saying. But Mellowed Man, he's in direct contradiction with himself. Look.

I have a hunch VV is just an overactive player due to his sickness.

First sentence, he accepts VV's defense.

I will Vote: ValiantValant and when he gets well from his sickness (I'm sick but getting better at the moment) I will maybe think about removing my vote.

Next sentence he votes VV for said defense.


On another topic,

unvote, vote: ZombieSlayer

. This whole WIFOM thing is bullshit, unless he provides a link. But after ZS is dead, MM is next, okay?

[Korts]

Gee, thanks, Marm. I think I'm on Surye's list because of the possible connection between VV and me. I'd be suspcious of myself myself if I weren't myself.

[Korts]

Gee, thanks, Marm. I think I'm on Surye's list because of the possible connection between VV and me. I'd be suspcious of myself myself if I weren't myself.

Yea, to be honest, the more the game goes on, the more I think VV was TRYING to implicate you. My suspicions are not what they used to be. ZS and VV are the important ones.

MM too, but looks like that's just my opinion. Plus, he (MM) hasn't posted since, although that may be for reasons beyond my accusation.

[Korts]

ZS. L-6? Not dangerous.

[Korts]

ZS. L-6? Not dangerous.

But it can easily become dangerous. That is my point.

L-6 doesn't become dangerous. If it becomes dangerous, it ceases being L-6.

[Korts]

ZS: in mafia, as far as I gathered, it works the other way, i.e. guilty until proven innocent. Don't let that stop you, though.

[Korts]

It works neither way- the principle is 'lynch the person with the best case against them.' You'll rarely PROVE anything, and to suggest as such is scummy.

There

is,

in fact, a thing called confirmed town. But you're right, that's not usually the case.

[Korts]

It works neither way- the principle is 'lynch the person with the best case against them.' You'll rarely PROVE anything, and to suggest as such is scummy.

There

is,

in fact, a thing called confirmed town. But you're right, that's not usually the case.

it's not easy to confirm a town without revealing some power roles.

No, it's not. In fact, it rarely happens without outing an investigative role. There are some cases where someone's pretty much confirmed, as in counterclaiming a RB in an all-RB setup, before the setup is known. But I feel you're implying that I want to a power role to reveal itself. Is that so?

[Korts]

ZS: in mafia, as far as I gathered, it works the other way, i.e. guilty until proven innocent. Don't let that stop you, though.

So... You presume everyone is Mafia unless they can somehow prove they are town?

Innocent until proven guilty may or may not apply here, but I know that burden of proof applies to every debate.

Not exactly. I'm equally suspicious of everyone at the beginning, because everyone may be guilty. My point was that noone should be considered innocent without proof. And thus we arrive at your point. I take it that you're saying we need proof to accuse someone. But we also need proof to consider someone town.

[Korts]

L-1, guys.

[Korts]

Way to go, Mellowed Man. Read The Fonz's post. You haven't fucked up at all, no.

[Korts]

Evil, they already sent in the lynch vote. Even if I claimed, which I shall never, ever do in ANY Mafia game, it does not matter.

What, shouldn't you claim if you're cop and have investigations yet to be revealed, or a doc who wants to make the best of it and go for the NK instead of the lynch?

[Korts]

WIFOMs delivered by a smart townie are useful, out-of-control random bandwagoning is harmful, and all claims do is make people think you are desperate.

Sounds reasonable, yeah. How do you ever survive Day 1?

[Korts]

Note: I never, ever claim. All claiming does is make people think you are desperate and trying to get out of a lynch.

wrong, wrong, wrong. everybody claims at l-1. in fact, refusing to claim is scummier, as it hints that you want to keep your role from the town.

Claiming always makes you seem desperate. Saying "IMMA COP! DUN LYNCH ME!" is just going to make people think you are saying that so they will not lynch you.

Well, duh. Either way, you're saying it exactly because you don't want them to lynch you.

[Korts]

Yeah, Rigel too. Single post. Cool.

[Korts]

Its not like he was going to claim or anything...

im here, been busy gettin bandwagoned in other games. ZS looks like the best lynch, i think hes allready hammered tho, i dont agree with his whole "i dont ever claim" thing, claiming helps the town not lynch a power role, and if its a fake claim the town will eventually find out anyways.

Once again, would you believe someone at L-1 when they say "IMMA COP"? Would you not think they are saying this for the express purpose of not getting lynched? And that they are not actually a cop?

Thing is, at L-1 a townie shouldn't fake claim. That leaves two options, either they are the role they're claiming or they're scum. If they are in fact the role in question then you want to keep them around. If they're scum then they're almost certainly going to get caught along the way when things strat to not add up.

And how many people actually will believe the former option?

Not that it matters now, since BabyGirl just hammered me.

It's not a question of belief, really. It is common sense to keep a claimed cop alive until further notice, i.e. until a) someone else counterclaims, b) claims an investigation that is in direct contradiction with the game state. Also, c) in my limited experience, the mafia usually have a roleblocker, so it is suspicious if the cop claims not to have been blocked.

[Korts]

EDBWOP:

b)

the claimed cop

claims an investigation that is in direct contradiction with the game state

Corrected.

[Korts]

Backup mod summon time?

Seems that way.

[Korts]

Dammit. Go town.

[Korts]

Hey. I've been loosely following the game, I'll do a more thorough reread and post my thoughts. But first, I'm awaiting a role PM.

[Korts]

Sounds like you're worried about your scumbuddies getting modkilled there killa.

FOS:Killa

That's smells so much like BS. Trying to throw much dirt?

BTW, I still haven't recieved a role PM.

[Korts]

Hi, sorry for my lack of presence.

I have two of the replacements, in the form of recycled protown non-informational roles, though I still need two more

. If we can't find them quickly, would anyone be opposed to modkilling those two so the game doesn't wait for them any further?

Nevertheless,

nswhorse is replaced by Korts, and Celebloki is replaced by q21. Korts may not talk about his previous role's choices.

rice i thought he was saying he was going to modkill the 2 non information gathering protown roles, thats why i objected. but i guess he replaced them and is killing two other roles.

Read before you write. The replacements'

former

roles were non information gathering protown roles, and not their current ones. Do you really think the mod would reveal anything about the roles of living players?

[Korts]

dammit, what the hell? stoopid tags

[Korts]

Got the role PM. Will do a thorough reread tonight.

[Korts]

Well, since reread and another reread gave me nothing much to comment on, I'll just hop on.

unvote, vote: Riceballtail

[Korts]

unvote, vote: StrangerCoug

While I don't agree with k7 completely, I do think that your reason for voting wasn't just reaching, it was outright BS. k7 wasn't making assuptions about the roles that are left, he was making assumptions about the mafia's NK. Whole different story.

Also,

FoS q21

because I don't have to votes. Not only do you state that k7's reasoning leads to WIFOM, which in itself does not, you also seem to imply that an uncountered nurse-lynch is the way to go (even if it's hardly counterable). RBT isn't the lynch for today.

[Korts]

Still here, still thinking SC is scum.

[Korts]

Shiny post there. I'll try to order my thoughts tomorrow or something.

[Korts]

You know, I remember ValiantValant being real scummy. Dizzy hasn't done much to clear his reputation.

unvote, vote: DizzyIzzy

[Korts]

This game hasn't gone anywhere much since Day 1...

[Korts]

Now someone

hammer!

====[]

please. this game makes me cry.

[Korts]

Yay, claim, now hammer plz

Sorry, Dizzy, but we've got a wagon going, it's not the time to waste it

[Korts]

Okay... well, I'll be rereading in hopes of finding something valuable.

Checking the player list, though, I don't seem to remember unofficialrulerofeveryone posting recently.

[Korts]

Or, like, ever.

[Korts]

The seemingly usual two was thanks to our precious vig MM, who was lynched Day 3 if you remember.

vote: Riceballtail

For not remembering the last couple of days (though I don't judge him).

[Korts]

Right.

unvote

Strange.

And N2 there was only one kill, which MM claimed for himself, if I remember correctly. Who'd you protect then, and who did you protect last night?

[Korts]

mod

: do the blocks of NK'd roleblockers go through the night they are killed?

[Korts]

Right, sorry. So basically the scumz (or both factions, it seems) went after the claimed vig N2, which gives us no real information.

This night there was only one NK, so someone wanted to kill UROE. But I'm guessing this was just a shot in the dark, since UROE didn't post yet at all. Again, no real information.

SC is an interesting choice. I'm curious to see what SensFan will find.

[Korts]

I don't know, there could be another RB too.

I imagine the person who did kill SC was an SK, based on xyzzy's description. I could be wrong though, of course.

I don't think xyzzy is the kind of mod to give hints in the flavor. I'm assuming from previous nights' flavor.

[Korts]

K. That's interesting. I'd say one of the mafia is in the top two probably.

Vote: SensFan, FoS q21

For obvious WIFOM reasons.

[Korts]

Any particular reason, WIFOM aside, why you both assume there is a Scum in the top two, and choose me?

What do you mean, why we

both

? My reasoning is that since SC wasn't exactly clear of suspicion, it's likely that someone whom he suspected is one of the mafia, but for WIFOM reasons I'm thinking it's more likely you than q21.

[Korts]

has kuribo posted since the start of Day 5?

unvote, vote: kuribo

pending reply.

[Korts]

Kuribo, Surye had at least posted Day 5, even if only to say that he's back. You hadn't, at all. Mr. Incrediball I simply forgot about, but I saw you posting in other games we're in, thought we deserve at least a "hi" kinda post.

unvote, vote: q21

Your opportunism is the best lead today.

[Korts]

Unfortunately, this lurkish style is present in both k7-town's and k7-scum's play.

[Korts]

Unfortunately, this lurkish style is present in

everybody's play this game

.

Edited to encourage more posting, as I think we all seem to be really neglecting this game.

I feel embarassed.

[Korts]

unvote, vote: kuribo

for

two

really bad votes and a serious overreaction.

[Korts]

Declaring that your action is only to draw reactions/votes is counterproductive to your plan as a whole, and as such, anti-town, no? You should know better.

[Korts]

You know, it's hard to get discussion rolling again if you resort to citing your meta and refuse to pretend either of us is serious. But at least I got some overreaction of you in reply to the accusation of it the irony...

what was that, a triple post?

[Korts]

im here not liking kuribos last few posts but sc kinda acted the same way. i would like surye to post more thoughts, he hasnt contributed since like day 2. ill re read some of the living players play and report back

What is your point when you say SC acted the same way?

[Korts]

Vote Surye

I'm not normally the gut feeling type. I normally shout at the gut feeling types. But I feel Surye's scum.

It probably comes from the fact that one day one when there was someone (ZombieSlayer) who was incredibly scummy (also, innocent) to pick on Surye was rather vicious in his attacks. Since then his play has been more characterised by short comment type posts.

Anyway, I think he's scum.

Do you realize, that in the current situation, with the discussion so sparse, gut feeling isn't going to provoke much in the way of conversation, or in fact, start a wagon?

Your point is noted, though. Interesting.

Surye, your response?

[Korts]

q21, you're up.

[Korts]

For one thing, if the modkilled is scum, we can go back to look for connections.

[Korts]

For one thing, if the modkilled is scum, we can go back to look for connections.

Why are you assuming that the modkilled will be scum? Statistical likelyhood shows he's more likely to be town.

I'm not assuming that at all. I'm just saying

if

.

A modkill can be better than a replacement because it confirms the player as town or scum. It is also better than a lynch because the day may continue, and we effectively have two lynches, one of them being a lurker/inactive-lynch. Why do you feel a lynch is better than a modkill?

[Korts]

unvote, vote: killa seven

I've yet to see him flip scum is why.

[Korts]

Ok, I'm back, glad to see some activity in this thread. Will be trying to catch up pretty soon.

[Korts]

I don't know how much access I'll have in the following days, so don't flip out if I don't post much. Sorry in advance for any inconvenience.

[Korts]

Just found a public hotspot, I'll read Mr. I in isolation. I'll be posting thoughts afterwards.

[Korts]

Bah. My laptop's battery is running low, this will have to wait.

[Korts]

Gah. I don't have time to read Mr. I right now, either.

I'm more than comfortable with my k7 vote, though.

[Korts]

That makes me think he's scum even more. Townies know who they're voting for because they have a vested interest in exactly who gets lynched. Scum don't care so long as its a townie.

Hah, I have not looked at this game in weeks as it's be a desolate wasteland. I don't remember as of RIGHT NOW who I am voting for still, because I don't even remember who's even playing in this game. Other games, and life out side this game, means that there is more on my mind till I get synced back up to this game. You're grasping for straws.

And shouldn't we?

[Korts]

At this point, definitely.

[Korts]

Bah. Nice (?) one, scum. Well, at least it's finally finished...

Oh, and I was vanilla second time round.

[Korts]

Yeah, for most of the game I was the one who sent in the kills.

We killed Korts N1, BM N2, Q21 N3, K7 N4.

With JL and Mr.I MIA about half the game, there wasn't a whole lot of discussion to be had about who to kill, so I just tried to get whoever I figured was the cop. Seems we got the only three power roles quickly enough though.

You bastard(s), and I'm apparently pretty good at being a doc. Well, MM would've shot me anyway, but still, it's all your fault!