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Post #656 (isolation #3) » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:48 am
Postby chamber »
Basically all rock-tumbled dice aren't weighted properly. Its a byproduct of how they are produced. Properly weighted dice will always have hard edges.
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Post #662 (isolation #4) » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:52 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 661, Chevre wrote:So I don't like "get" Puerto Rico. I've played about five games online and I'm still really unsure how to win. I just try to build a lot of buildings and get a lot of doubloons, even though I think the focus is on shipping as much as you can. :S
Shipping is the primary strategy, but there is a building strategy.
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Post #733 (isolation #5) » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:13 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 732, Mr. Flay wrote:Power Grid is annoying because endgame has fuckall to do with what you've been doing all game. I hate that kind of 'strategy' game. Also, it takes too long to be that swingy.
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Post #788 (isolation #7) » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:11 pm
Postby chamber »
mtg/heartstone/soulforge type. Key features being:
A hand of cards giving you options of what to play
Some cost for playing cards
A split between immediate effects and effects that develop your board position for later benefit.
More specifically I'd also likely include some sort of 'vanguard' system ala magics vangaurds/heartstone/and net runner.
I'm torn between heartstones 'everything happens on your turn' design feature, and magics you always need to be paying attention one. Heartstones method really simplifies magics priority and allows people playing it on the computer to more easily mulitask while playing the game, on the other hand simple isn't always a good thing and the reduced options for interactions really shows in heart stone.
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Post #843 (isolation #8) » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:33 pm
Postby chamber »
I've never played kingsburg. 7 Wonders seems to be at about the level of game you are looking for though. Despite its flaws its reasonably fun, its biggest issue is being low on interaction.
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Post #845 (isolation #9) » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:36 am
Postby chamber »
In post 844, quadz08 wrote:I quite enjoyed Lords of Waterdeep as an intro to worker placement games, as a note.
Stoneage is the other typical worker placement introduction game. Less flavorful but no more complex than Lords of Waterdeep, so if they found that too many options paralyzed them in Stoneage I suspect the genre just isn't theirs to enjoy.
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Post #1670 (isolation #30) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:38 pm
Postby chamber »
Every game has elements of luck, even Terra Mystica (the luck is just not as encoded in the game). For sufficiently skilled players I assume it mostly comes down to picking races/bonus tile things.
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Post #1672 (isolation #31) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:14 pm
Postby chamber »
The problem with the randomness in options(in seasons) is that people aren't given equal access. You just have to hope you roll what you need, or that someone else rolls a lot of what you need if its in high demand.
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Post #1681 (isolation #33) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:36 am
Postby chamber »
I would love to try through the ages. I've been considering buying it but haven't played it. Getting a game under me would help me decide one way or the other.
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Post #1705 (isolation #34) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:00 am
Postby chamber »
My nephew (5) will lose interest in a game if he starts losing. I don't know how to deal with that so I've mostly stopped trying in the hopes he grows out of it.
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Post #1872 (isolation #37) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:57 am
Postby chamber »
In post 1866, xRECKONERx wrote:Suburubia: Ho. Lee. Fuck. This game. This fucking game. First off, WOW it takes way longer to complete than I originally thought it would. It took us about 2.5 hours to play, with a quick 5 minute smoke break in the middle. But that first playthrough was like constant revelation after revelation. I can see how deeply strategic this game is... and the way it takes the drafting mechanic from Smallworld and re-appropriates it here is absolutely beautiful. What a gorgeous game, by the way... it's so well designed. It's a game where the theme/flavor is equally as strong as the mechanics, and I fucking LOVED it. While waiting for my turn, I'd just read through the different tiles and chuckle at how clever some of the flavor -> mechanics translations were. The last round, when we were in the C tiles, everyone was jittery and nervous, waiting for that 1 More Turn tile to flip. And when it did... man, everyone went into a panic on the last turn. And man, the reveal of the secret goals at the end was fucking great! I sort of wish you had more than one secret goal to go for, a la Keyflower, because only having the one feels a little bit like... the game is decided before final scoring. But this was great, and the mechanics were great, and while it took a little bit too long (compared to Keyflower, which takes like an hour tops) I think part of that might've been us not knowing the tiles and having to read them all over and over again.
Oh yeah and the speedbump mechanic... holy shit, that is GENIUS! Not only does it stop games from becoming snowball runaway victories, but it forces an interesting balancing mechanic in your strategies. I accidentally (seriously, without trying) kept getting reputation gains in the early game, so eventually my reputation was at +6 while everyone else had +1 or 0, which meant I was hitting tons of speedbumps. Eventually I had to buy a tile and place it STRATEGICALLY for the negative effect to bump down my reputation so I could build up a little bit of income.
It wont take that long to play through in the future, we can do a game in < an hour. It feels pretty railroady to me though once you play a couple games, the options you are given each turn feel incredibly small with how that extra cost can build up fast.
In post 2189, xRECKONERx wrote:Gamma didn't like it because he didn't think there was a ton of strategy
Them's fightin' words.
I don't think he's entirely wrong. I think the base game is light on strategy elements, it's mostly tactical. The exception being mercers, scribes, and the fall resource scorers. Nothing else is worth enough points to really be worth it.
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Post #2199 (isolation #40) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:43 am
Postby chamber »
I've mostly played 3 player (and with the same 2 other players, one of them being TBM) We've played enough and are generally competent enough as gamers that I doubt we've just been missing some key strategic element of the game but it's possible (and the 3 player thing could easily have an impact). My issue with dynamic strategies in keyflower are both that you don't know the entire tile set so it's difficult to make long term plans, and even if you did know (or you see key things early enough) you still don't know that you'll win those winter tiles. It can be obvious when someone is going all in on a given tile and you can either disrupt them (movement being easy to disrupt in a lot of setups) or just go wide when placing winter tiles and force them to spend to many resources protecting their only point source.
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Post #2278 (isolation #41) » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:10 am
Postby chamber »
I don't think streamlining it actually works. Its interesting because it just defies any sort of conventional streamlined model and goes full in on flavour.
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Post #2302 (isolation #42) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:41 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 2297, Thesp wrote:BGG.CON IN TWO WEEKS! (Well, in 13 days, as I'm getting there a day early.) One of these days we'll get more than just old-time scummers like mith, MeMe, and petroleumjelly there.
I'd never go just to go to the con, but if there is ever a mini scummer meet happening at one, let me know and I'd strongly consider it. Too short of notice for this year though.
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Post #2394 (isolation #45) » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:34 pm
Postby chamber »
Which is why removing interaction from it is such a serious blow to it in my opinion. I feel like Race is about as uninteractive as you can get and still call it a multiplayer game with a straight face.
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Post #2582 (isolation #48) » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:23 pm
Postby chamber »
The term is poorly defined and I think first came about to separate the european board games coming out in the early 2000's from the traditional like monopoly. I'd differentiate it from 'ameritrash' games in the following ways:
Indirect competition rather than direct competition (I'm going to out bid you for something, or use a limited resource before you can, not steal territory from you, or kill your units).
No elimination, you play to the end even if you are doing terribly.
Some abstracted victory condition like Victory Points rather than something like player elimination.
You can probably find counter examples where I'd ignore 1 or more of those though, like powergrid is euro as heck and doesn't use victory points.
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Post #2584 (isolation #49) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:04 am
Postby chamber »
I don't think a euro game needs to be heavy. Like I think Catan qualifies and it's almost closer to the pop-o-matic you described rather than the Eurogame you described.
In post 2582, chamber wrote:The term is poorly defined and I think first came about to separate the european board games coming out in the early 2000's from the traditional like monopoly. I'd differentiate it from 'ameritrash' games in the following ways:
Indirect competition rather than direct competition (I'm going to out bid you for something, or use a limited resource before you can, not steal territory from you, or kill your units).
No elimination, you play to the end even if you are doing terribly.
Some abstracted victory condition like Victory Points rather than something like player elimination.
You can probably find counter examples where I'd ignore 1 or more of those though, like powergrid is euro as heck and doesn't use victory points.
I think that's all fairly accurate?
I would also say that in Ameritrash game, the "theme" wins out over the mechanics.
Like, Betrayal At House on the Hill... Ameritrash. Heavily themed, and the theme is most of the charm. Same with Arkham Horror, Battlestar Galactica, Cosmic Encounter.
Eurogames are way more "strategic". I don't even think Eurogames have to be particularly complex, it's more that they're all about the tactics/strategy and less about the journey.
That eurogames are more mechanism first and ameritrash games more theme first is a really good point that I overlooked. It should be on my list for sure.
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Post #2694 (isolation #53) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:20 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 2693, xRECKONERx wrote:keyflower is in no way, shape, or form a simple worker placement game.
I agree. I just also think lords of waterdeep isn't simple. If I wanted to suggest an intro worker placement game with simplicity in mind I probably would have suggested russian railroads.
I just think keyflower is a much better game than lords of waterdeep.
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Post #2696 (isolation #54) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:28 pm
Postby chamber »
I only played it a few times. But I seem to remember it fundamentally having similar elements. Like I guess added elements of complexity are the roads, resource movement, and that you can reuse tiles at an increased cost.
I don't know, I played keyflower pretty early into my advanced board-gaming days and we handled it without too many rules errors.
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Post #2698 (isolation #55) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:24 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 2697, PJ. wrote:Keyflower is rated on BGG a whole pointment higher in complexity than LoW, basically in the same ballpark as agricola.
Fundamentally I think lords of waterdeep is just a bad game, so I have trouble recommending it to anyone. With that said, I don't think its fair to compare keyflower to Agricola either. Even if they were of similar complexity, the skill floor to not feel terrible when playing Agricola is just not comparable. There is plenty of room to fail at the keyflower mechanics but still be playing the game. I nearly ended with negative points the first time I played Agricola.
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Post #2702 (isolation #57) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:36 pm
Postby chamber »
It being from a somewhat hot designer hurts it a bit imo. For it to have that as a recognition vector but to still be so lowly ranked suggests its just actually not a very good game.
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Post #2705 (isolation #58) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:46 pm
Postby chamber »
Just watched an overview of the game, play seems fine, but I don't think its a worker placement game at all in the vein of lords of water deep or Keyflower or Agricola.
Edit: to elaborate on what I mean, in worker placement games I'm used to the worker placement options being communal and driving actions. Where as kanagawa seemed to be drafting driven, and the workers just limited options, and only had private spaces.