Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[Fate]

Okay, so we each got one of the Planeswalker 2012 starter decks (the mono color ones with 30 cards). I went with blue (Pie took black, Grimm took green, I didn't think I'd enjoy red, so duh, blue). We also split a sealed box of Innistrad boosters AND got a shitton of free commons from the guys sitting at the store playing MtG.

But I'm getting my ass kicked. Blue just seems like such a shitty deck compared to the power of green (terrifying monsters, terrifying buffs) and black (zombies never truly die, vampires lifesteal). What does blue have? Deck burners and...that's about it. Ugh.

lolbackinthedayReck

[Fate]

Okay, so we each got one of the Planeswalker 2012 starter decks (the mono color ones with 30 cards). I went with blue (Pie took black, Grimm took green, I didn't think I'd enjoy red, so duh, blue). We also split a sealed box of Innistrad boosters AND got a shitton of free commons from the guys sitting at the store playing MtG.

But I'm getting my ass kicked. Blue just seems like such a shitty deck compared to the power of green (terrifying monsters, terrifying buffs) and black (zombies never truly die, vampires lifesteal). What does blue have? Deck burners and...that's about it. Ugh.

lolbackinthedayReck

[Fate]

YOU WOULD PLAY THAT BITCHASS BOROS GUILD SHIT

[Fate]

also aren't hellriders like $10

[Fate]

Am I wrong for thinking Curse of Stalked Prey is good as hell and worth building a deck around

[Fate]

ok because I can't afford to waste money on pride (not revealing my deck till I make it) because it might suck:


I was thinking Curse of Stalked Prey for a Gruul deck

idea is:
Skaarg Guild leaders give boardwide trample+Curse of stalked prey=snowballthreat fast. Pit fight rapes flyers and Skullcrack laughs at druid's deliverance and shit like that

its not AS fast or aggro as Rakdos, but it provides more stability against bullshit wipes with hexproof (GAMMA GIVE ME YOUR RANGER GUILE)



Also Nightshade Peddler+Ash Zealot=for teh cheap deathtouchfirsttrike LULZ?

NO ONE STEAL MY IDEAZ

its k cause no one will play gruul except me and gamma

[Fate]

What in the fuck is that card and why

Do you mizzUm mortars it then burn target player?

And what does green have to do with it

[Fate]

will GTC eveb be fully spoiled before.pre release

[Fate]

Did my post insulting Reck get deleted? Really?

Still want to know what sTuffy doll its all about

[Fate]

To each his own Shea.but that can get too expensive

I have the most fun in magic playing a deck I created with a theme that I enjoy and making it viable. Spending hundreds to makes a."strong" deck isn't for me, if I wanted to play a skill based game Dominion would be the way to go.


For instance, Nuwen and.I took.our scrub decks against some hardcore magic nerds for two headed giant with turn 3 annihilator 4 artifacts and shit and would.have won except for a misplay in what we sacrificed (t hey were at two hp) and THAT was fun

[Fate]

Prey upon specifically says creature you doN't control

Otherwise I could see it being lulzy

[Fate]

Lol is the example I was going to use FOR.a game I already play that satisfies that need, but since its not turned based, I went for dominion instead.

And I have the wrong imPression its not the money that bothers me, its more the lack of creativity. If there's only so many meta approved cards you can play, thats no fun to me.

I want to play MY deck with cards that fit my theme and playstyle, not a meta approved deck you ll see every tournament.
I rather beat someone better than me because my deck surprised them beat someone better because my deck r was better

[Fate]

Shut the hell up Myko?

I know WHY meta decks are good and better than gimmick decks dumbaas

[Fate]

Theme/gimmick, whatever.

I don't want to have to be "forced" to include cards that are considered "Staple" in certrain colors.

I don't want to have to play mayor mcwhatthefuck when I play red/green and be retarded if I don't because he's such an "efficient" and "good" card, or make an aggro deck involve winning before turn 4 because Supreme Verdict is a card that exists and is played like candy


Obviously I won't be entering any tournaments with these decks and lulzing to the finish line, but I want to be able to have fun with them (because I enjoy the playstyle and cards I choose) and occasionally win a game.

I'll learn the meta for Limited because that's fun in its own right, but if I'm going to call something "my own" I want it to be something I invented and not something copy/pasted and then bought from stores.

[Fate]

<3

LIKE CURSE OF STALKED PREY RITE?

[Fate]

MYKO

WHAT THE HELL DID I TELL YOU

SHUT

THE

FUCK

UP

[Fate]

THE TOPIC OF FUCKING DISCUSSION IS:

HOW YOU ENJOY PLAYING FUCKING MAGIC

NOT

HOW CAN I MAKE AN ASS OF MYSELF AND MAKE EVEN MORE PEOPLE HATE ME THAN ALREADY DO SPOUTING OFF-TOPIC BULLSHIT ARROGANTLY (HARD TASKS I KNOW, TAKE IT TO SCUMCHAT INSTEAD)

[Fate]

I suppose you're right, building the new meta takes innovation and creativity. I guess I was pretty unfair to all the frontier magic players.

But how many of those cards that you played are currently "construncted playable"? How many of them are fun cards and interesting combos? Or were they just a bunch of "powerful" cards linked together to make a cohesive deck?

It just feels like the meta wall is pretty high in this game. I can't just think a deck through, think it has a decent purpose and mana curve, and go to play standard. I get looked at funny and go "lol, that entire deck is countered by this card that everyone and their sister has in their decks. l2standard"

And thats a little depressing. Reck got my hopes up when he said "any card can be good and made to work in the right circumstance" but I've found out since then that "unless you have XX cards if youre in XX colors you might as well not even come TROLOOL"

and meh. This is turning into a casual/hardcore debate sort of and its not worth going into. I probably won't ever be "good" enough at this game or serious about it to be making breakingly sexy new decks that no one's thought of.

So I'll settle for making less than viable decks no one's thought of and seeing if they win sometimes or not <_<

[Fate]

I never disagreed that people should go to touraments with their a-game and trying to win...

I was merely saying the format of magic I found the most fun, which is what gamma referred to.

that's all

[Fate]

Why is gLaring spotlight so cheap. I'm not seeing a downside to it on a sideboard. It just seems a Nerf to greens only counter to blue n control spells....

[Fate]

Falkenrath Aristocrat+Augre Spree

HMM??

HNNNNNNNNNNNNM??????

[Fate]

iunno

its just one of those fun combos that seems like itd be good

Sacrifice+Augre spree can have you hitting with like a 10/x on turn 5

[Fate]

RECK I LINKED YOU A DECK ON AIM I KNOW YOURE READING THIS

[Fate]

its on the last page LLD

hexproof has its counters, supreme verdict and shit still kill it

WHERE ARE THE COUNTERS TO CHEAP ASS INFINITE BOUNECS/COUNTERS/DETAINS HUH?

[Fate]

I think Knights of Infamy+Stonewright on a Hellholeflailer and saccing it is my new favorite kill combo

mainly because I thought of it myself and it goes through bullshits deliverance

[Fate]

I have a question about resolution:


if a card is indestructible (let's say rootborn defenses)

That doesn't prevent them from taking damage (in the cases of lifelink and shit)

It jus prevents them from DYING FROM damage, correct?


SO

Scenario:

My Rakdos Berserker deals 2 damage to an indestructible Husar Patrol

THEN

I reduce his P/T by -2/-2 with my Rix Maadi Guild mage.

NOW Chamber said if you reduce a creature's toughness to zero it doesn't matter if they are indestructible

so DOES IT DIE?

[Fate]

huehuehue

hue

Rix Maadi might have a place on side boards after all

[Fate]

well fuck

[Fate]

Nah, got rid of my Xbox years ago like an idiot because moving across bodies of water is teh suck.

NEXT UP FOR WHO WANTS TO BE A RULES JUDGE:

"Aurelia's Fury deals X damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or players. Tap each creature dealt damage this way. Players dealt damage this way can't cast noncreature spells this turn."

This is an instant spell.

If I place this on the stack in RESPONSE to an instant cast that I don't want to be cast, it resolves....

What happens to the noncreature spell they just played?

Is it now invalid to have played it and fizzled? Or does it count as "casting" when you put it on the stack in the first place?

[Fate]

mm thats important to know

more as I think of them (or remember because there were some I had combos in that I didnt want to ask my opponent)

Here's two for mostly clarification:

1. You can cast instanst between first strike and normal combat damage, Im p. sure? Aka First strike 3/1+Searing Spear to rape a x/6

2. This one needs more in depth explaining: Wild Beastmaster. I read something about "announcing the trigger" what the hell is this about?

Aka:

I want t giant growth my Wild Beast Master. I read that downsize can shit on wild beast master pretyt hard, but in a response post someone else said that "they don't have a lot of window time to downsize wild beast master"

I think this meant that I should be:
1. Casting Giant growth BEFORE I declare that I'm attacking
2. Now my WBM is 4/4, and I say "I'm attacking"
3. Now they can downsize THEN, or not, and if they DO I don't swing with WBM because she'll get blocked and raped.
4. They say "Ok you are attacking, I do nothing"
5. I THEN tap the creatures I Want to attack with, if I tap WBM all my other creatrures get 4/4 and they CANT downsize before that effect takes place (they can do it before combat obv but they can't prevent the +4/+4 counters going out)


Do I have any of that wrong?

[Fate]

RAKDOS MOTHER FUCKING WINS

[Fate]

$324 gl hf

[Fate]

SO SHEA THAT BANT AURA MIRROR MATCH

DETERMINED BY SKILL AMIRITE

[Fate]

10 words for 3 paragraphs

I think I won that trade

[Fate]

FUCK

[Fate]

IMMA FIGHT YOU GAMMA

FIGHT

YOU

PIT FIGHT BITCH

[Fate]

4 and 0 so far I LOVE GRUUL BABY

cracked raiders in my guilds pack, haven't used her yet

[Fate]

Burning tree emissary MVP

Turn 3 battalion? Yes plz got combat medic to

[Fate]

Holy shit Aurelias Fury is so broken and won me the finals. 4 and 1 for the night. Also my phone says its 30 bucks right now

[Fate]

Well 8 and 2 games the other total is matches

[Fate]

All your matches ending in 2 games is very strange.

eh I only lost 2

im exhausted so I fail mathed

but yeah I lost 2 games

WHAT I LEARNED FOR THOSE WHO HAVENT GONE YET:


Spire Tracer+Madcap Skills+Alpha Authority

Turn 3 unblockable hexproof 4/1

By far the best combo I did tonight

Turn 4:

Bloodrush a slaughter thorn, 7/3, Boros Charm DOUBLE STRIKE 14 damage GG.


Also won a game with Rubblebelt raiders and Aurelia's Fury to swing in for lethal, shit was cash.

Final decklist was:

Spire tracer x3
Madcap Skillsx2
Alpha Authority x1
Rubblehulk x1
Rubblebelt raiders x1
Frontline Medic x1
Aurelia's Fury
Mugging x2
Arrows of Justice x1
Burning-Tree Emissary x3 (easily MVP won me more games than Aurelia's did)
Greenside watcher x1
Boros Guild Gatex 1
Gruul guilg gate x2
Slaughterthorn X2
Zhur-Taa Swine x1
Giant Adephage x1 (won me a single game, never got a copy of it. Boros charmed his rapid hybridzation on it to win the game)
Boros Charm x1 (MVP #2, this card is too fucking good)


cards I didnt play:
Assemble the Legion x1 Meehhhhhhh
Act of treasons
Mark for death (though luzy removal)
Wildwood Rebirth x1 (shoulda side boarded in against the mill decks but beat them anyway)
Gruul Keyrune yeah fuck htis one
Ruiniation Wurm too expensive
Sylvan Primordial didnt need another bomb really
Scrab-Clan Charger too defnsive
Homing Lightning had too much other burn, double red is hard
Gruul Ragebeast more bombs sexy but couldnt do it
Aerial Manuever meh combat trick imo, at least for how situational it is
Ivy Land denizens, wasnt splashing simic
Forced adapation and miming sloime same
Martial Glory, was ok but would be mana screwed too much



K

zz time

interested in everyone elses results/strategies

SMASH SKILL SMASH

[Fate]

Trade Fury now/soon before it drops. Preferably for shocks.

Opened a UB and RW shock, didn't do well in sealed with Simic. Trying again Sunday w/ Orzhov.

yeah im definitely telling nuwen this is the way to go

she has a ghost council+fury $50

buy that shit back anytime for <$20

oh I alsio didnt play Crowned ceratok but that shit is crazy

[Fate]

like I went in wanting to splash simic but then NOPEBOROSWINS

I think #1 and #2 were boros, I lost to #2 2-1 when he stacked a 3/3 who gets +3 when attacking +/3 when defending with madcap skills and murder investigation

[Fate]

Gamma when we move up there we have to two headed giant as Gruul TWO HEADS TO CRACK BETER THAN ONE.

Reck you have to splash white for your Mono red deck. Boros charm is just way too fucking good for a two drop, and you lost to a board wipe last time at standard?

Also Legion Loyalist looks p. good, 1 drop with a battalion for First strike and trample for ALL yo creatures

Frontline medic also sexy.


Gamma who got 1st and 2nd in your store?

Also how the hell did you beat Boros with dat curve?

[Fate]

oh and wojek halberderiers 2 drop for first strike battalion 3/2

wdf

[Fate]

ALSO they told me I could Pit Fight+Pay 1 red to activate first strike on my creature and when they "fought" my creature had first strike I didnt die

I think I was cheating because it specifically says "deals damage equal to its power to one another" and nothing about actual fighting

[Fate]

been playing nuwens deck today, Ghost council is pretty bullshit

and shes not even running other extort cards.

Thanks chamber i'll keep that in mind (re: reminder text)

[Fate]

stalling players like that piss me off


This one guy milled me for 4 with two bullshit denizens, I drew the 4 face up and kinda showed them to him, and he thought I was just drawing a bunch of cards and forfeiting

so he scooped, I looked up and was like "Wdf?"

Technically it was win for me, but I said "nah I don't want to win like that its useless and no fun. All I ask is you remember it in the future before you rules lawyer me over something I miss" and sure he enough he was indebted to me.

Having nerds owe you ftw. He went on to win game 2 (so I woulda been 2-0d because the game with his 2 millers out was getting out of hand fast), but then I won two in a row hue.

[Fate]

Orzov with Dimir splash or vice versa is a lot stronger than you give credit Reck. Control+killing you slowly? OH AND THEN HERE COMES PAPA GHOSTIES

Mill+Death's Approach=Tragic mothafucking slip on enchant speed. You don't need to go ALL IN MILL LULZ, mill is fine and there's no scavenge to punish it in this limited format

Consuming Aberration is also a fucking nightmare. This one guy got it out and it was 18/18 before he blocked my 8/8 rubble hulk and I snuck by with a 5/4 and a 7/7. He had 12 life, used rabid bullshitzation on my 7/7 and I said LOLNOPE BOROS CHARMBITCH and ggd him (I wouldve died next turn easy, also had 3 cards in my GY so woulda auto-lossed after I milled the rest of my shit due to Consuming Aberattion's passive)

[Fate]

I mean have you seen Dimir's 6 drop cipherables? If they control the board until then, undercity plague or whatever (SACRIFICE A PERMANENT OH AND NOW MY ROGUE MAKES YOU SACRIFICE SHIT AND DISCARD SHIT EACH TIME IT SWINGS UNBLOCKABLULZ) rapes ****, the stolen identity rapes **** a bunch of their shit rapes and it isn't that hard to get to turn 6 with Basilica guards, the 2/3 denizens, and control.

[Fate]

btw Reck I'll trade you an Aurelia's Fury for 2 Stomping Grounds <.<

[Fate]

Reck wait for us to get home we have two more rounds

[Fate]

Simic+Orzovh OP we win bitches

[Fate]

I need legion loyalists Pie don't give them to Reck hue
I STILL HAVE THAT TEMPLE GARDENS

[Fate]

Because you're going to run faggots of the parish arent you

[Fate]

I'd like some advice on this Gruul deck I'm building.

Concept: I've been playing R/B some and sometimes I look at a hand of 4 spells and 3 lands and go "well shit, its a good spread but I can't do shit with this." I'm leaning toward more creature based decks, and even RDW (besides being too meta for me) has a ton of spells that can clog up your hand.

So I want to run this, it hits fast and early. It needs to be winning by turn 4 and win on turn 5 best case scenario, and has plenty of tools to do so.

4 Experiment One
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Rubblebelt Raiders
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Pit Fight
2 Ground Assault
1 Gruul Charm
2 Domri Rade
3 Wild Beastmaster
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
6 Mountain
6 Forest
2 Kessig Wolf Run

//Sideboard
SB: 4 Ranger's Guile
SB: 3 Searing Spear
SB: 2 Ground Assaults
SB: 2 Clan Defiance
SB: 1 Pit Fight
SB: 2 Wolfir Silverheart

Now I was wondering if there any obvious inclusions and subtractions from the deck (possible from innistrad block) that I'm missing.

What I

DON"T

want to hear is to splash white. I don't want to splash white. It ruins the deck theme into a "Naya" build, gives me mana trouble (as well as making me get an additional 8 shocklands that I don't want), and makes it less consistent. I don't care how could Champion of the parish would love this build I don't want to go tri-colored, nor do I care how insane Boros Charm is (srsly wdf).

Gruul Charm is underrated, but we can discuss that if you really hate it. Its a game winner for me. That+Rubble belt is probably lights out.

I suppose I should through in some Hellriders for my 4 drop instead? I just really like mah raiders.


Ideal Curve:
T1-Experiment 1
T2- Emissary+Mayor/Mauler, etc.
T3: Wild Beastmaster
T4: Raiders (NOPE GET SUPREME VERDICTEDZ)
T5: Legion Loyalist+BLood Rush Beastmaster+Gruul Charm (yeah you can do all 3 for 5 mana baby)=won games?

Ideas?

[Fate]

Fair enough on Domri

. how about goblin hellraisers it safe to attack with them on Turn 3 because of Legion loyalist and I'm turn for my Raiders come out swinging

[Fate]

as for the high curve the rampages are only for blood rush and the Raiders are what wins me the game. what 2 or 3 drop should I stick to in your opinion Shea to make the deck still affective and a lower curve

[Fate]

Oh yeah the silverheargs might have been too greedy mana wise

[Fate]

Hmmmm

Cut Domri and Silver for... Hellraisers and? Rangers guile? I like its interaction with beastmaster if they try to remove her in response to her trigger, extra damage for all

[Fate]

Also I'll add skull cracks to the SB

[Fate]

All negative no suggestions eh chamber

Raiders with hellraisers is a huge threat turn 4 and synergies with my lots of early creatures theme

[Fate]

edited cause phone lulz

[Fate]

Hellkite's are 5 mana and too high for the curve I want

Hellriders will probably make it in, but I want to use Raiders more and I can't fit two 4 drops. Also Hellrider RR opens up potential to be color screwed (I dont own any stomping grounds yet)

I just want advice for cards that are good with the strategy I proposed. No "well youre in G/R you have to get Huntmaster trololol and Rancor's and XXX"

Huntmaster is more for midgame he isnt a game winner.

Anyway yeah I need more 1 drops thats what I dont have a great knowledge base of. Throw in wasteland vipers? Stromkirk Nobles? What? Vexing Devils?

What spells should I throw in now that I wont have Domri?

Also I like Domri still because I can't think of any decent 3 drops (Beastmaster is pretty niche and Hellraiser seems good, but thats all besides going something else), but if he's not aggro enough I'll take your word. I just like the "draw more into my creature pool that I need to win+Removal fighting"


I also have zero way to get rid of indestructible stuff, any g/r cards that do that, or is that just going to be my weakness?

I'm thinking Gruul Charms and Ground assaults on the SB to deal with heavy flyers, but other than that the only weakness I can see is Predator Ooze and even that I might be able to ignore for two turns or so?

[Fate]

First strikers and skullcracks are my answer to thraggythraggy

If I lose momentum early I'm fine with calling it a loss, rather than compromise my strategy for "safety" of being able to win later

If I absolutely had to have a five drop I'd go Silverheart again because it bound to a beastmaster > maws 5 damage.


I'll try some Cacklers, dunno why I forgot them. Nobles might be better

[Fate]

I see

[Fate]

Predator Ooze, but I was more mad that I was up against a netdeck with both versions of Garruk and I didn't even have access to tragic slips in my RB deck and it stomped me T_T

Also Falkenrath Aristocrat I guess.

Pit fighting is pretty situational and always comes in handy in different ways. One of the ways I'm planning on using it is after my raiders gets counters for being sideways before they declare blockers, just instagib some troublesome fuck

[Fate]

Also this HAD to be posted literally the morning after I thought up this goddamn deck:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/A ... /deck/1160

Fuck the internet

AT LEAST I HAVE WILD BEASTMASTER NO ONE WILL SEE IT COMING HUE

[Fate]

It was just sarcastic ffs. Like "here I thought I was original but nopez everyone's thought of everything, heh"

I didn't have it in the main at first because of Domri and I didn't want to draw it

I also don't see how much it does for my deck. My creatures are supposed to already be above the curve and I have trample when I need it on blood rush. It just seems like another one of those "This is a good value card, you need to have it if youre in this color or youre dum" Which is not the kind of deck I want to make, as those decks have DEFINITELY already been made as the toptierz "all good value cards thrown together" decks.

I'll probably try to pickup some Wolf runs that I KNOW RECK HAS WINKWINK, but I dont know if Im sold on the Boars since I got enough 2 drops that are sexy and humans are my theme with the mayor

[Fate]

I'd throw in mugging before Rancor

Removal OR get a blocker out of the way? Yesplz

[Fate]

Please don't be that guy who bitches about "netdecks". You're better than that.

I'm not. I was bitching that I didn't have an ANSWER to his deck, that was as cheap and common as tragic slip, that no one seems to have spares of around my shop

[Fate]

Also I'm running Spire tracers now just because I don't have 4 experiment ones >_> these guys are secret mvps

[Fate]

You're trying to lure me into a raping aren't you.....

[Fate]

I JUST CRACKED A DOMRI MY FIRST PLANESWALKER FIRST GTC SLDRAFT

FIRST FUCKING.WIN

[Fate]

Is this real life.lol

FATE

[Fate]

I know its crazy this addiction but NOT QUESTIONING IT

[Fate]

what happened to the R/G stuffy dool deck you were gonna make me Pie T_T

[Fate]

your link is broken

Im pretty sure the card youre talking about though only brings back human that were put into the graveyard THAT turn

Oh and there's these two spells:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... eid=277995
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... eid=278452

To think about

[Fate]

oh its not broke now

yeah that be p. fun to pull off

[Fate]

you didnt miss the 1 and 2 drops that shit on your entire concept did you buttons? <_<

[Fate]

Not enough creatures that smash said doll with pit fight

I am dissappoint

[Fate]

yeah but

that might as well be an esper trolol deck then

I FIGHT WITH MY OWN BLOOD

[Fate]

ALSO I told someone at the pre-release something that is apparently wrong. The Gatecrash FAQ SPECIFICALLY said each time you pay to activate the keyrune's ability of turning it into a creature, it is a NEW creature with NO memory of its past self. aka if they enchant agoraphobia (i think the example was) on your shit, you let it resolve, then pay the activation cost to make it a NEW creature that ISNT agoraphobiad

FOLLOWING this logic, I told someone that they couldn't cipher encode onto a keyrune, well they could but it would be LOST once it turned back into an artifact because its encoded on the CREATURE keyrune, and once it turns back into a artifact all knowledge of that creature is gone forever, and no cipher.


But then the Magic site said you CAN encode onto a keyrune and it will stick...??? not following the rules logic here

[Fate]

702.97c The card with cipher remains encoded on the chosen creature as long as the card with cipher remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield. The card remains encoded on that object even if it changes controller or stops being a creature, as long as it remains on the battlefield.

K nvm google is cool

so its just some rule

[Fate]

Wow why did no one tell me Kessig malcontents existed

[Fate]

hrmmmmmm

I'm thinking it'd be a cool niche 3 drop in my deck. I don't want to run too many Hellraisers, and if I drop him with an Mayor and Loyalist out he's a 4-2 with first strike and trample, with the bonus of nuking something while coming in.


I think I'd side board him out though game 2 in favor of... Wolfir Avenger. He can be a combat trick with Experiment One and is sturdier against removal.

Also best case scenario is a 4 damage nuke turn 3 (Experiment 1, BTE+1human+ this guy), with a 5 damage nuke turn 4 with hellriders

[Fate]

with the bonus of nuking something while coming in.

You realize it only hits players right?

yeah I re-read it after I made that post, still a good effect when trying to win early

[Fate]

And no one told me about Hamlet captain either....

Starting to think you guys are just dicksdicks

[Fate]

A 2 mana 2/2 isn't even close to being good enough on its own.

It's significantly better than mayor for my deck though, and I'm surprised boo one mentioned it

ESPECIALLY better than Mayors and hell raisers together

[Fate]

Mayor can be flipped and if I have to attack with him because of the Hellraiser hell so easily get killed. I found I usually can't act Maher but this guy well he has to attack to the ability is a 22 value bear himself.

also having to these out on the field ads 233 attackers as opposed to 2 mayors

[Fate]

Is it even necessary for me to chime in here and mention that the power level disparity between mayor and hamlet is so big that I am shocked that I have even, just now, uttered them in the same sentence?

What?

The difference is huge for my deck and what its trying toaccomplish., one power is huge. Not dying to static tocasters is huge.being able to play hell raisers and have mayor not die to augue of bolas is huge.

Obviously its not DA BEST FUCKING 2 DROP S NA MUST GET

But it means a lot for the deck im trying to build and its cards like these i POSTED asking foe

[Fate]

For advice fo I KNOW what sees play already and the meta

What I DONT know are unsung niche cards from a set I didn't play that would be good in my deck

I don't see why this concept is hard to grasp

[Fate]

HOWEVER if I were to take out the gimmickiness I think my deck would look like this:

Spoiler: Casual Mode

Creatures (30):
4 Experiment One
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Goblin Hellraisers
3 Rubblebelt Raiders
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Hamlet Captain
3 Wild Beastmaster

Instants (6):
3 Pit Fight
1 Gruul Charm
2 Ranger's Guile

Planeswalkers (2):
2 Domri Rade

Lands (22):
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
7 Mountain
7 Forest

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Ranger's Guile
SB: 3 Searing Spear
SB: 3 Ground Assaults
SB: 2 Clan Defiance
SB: 1 Pit Fight
SB: 2 Wolfir Silverheart

Spoiler: More competitive FNM style

Creatures (28):
4 Experiment One
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boars
3 Hellriders
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Legion Loyalist

Instants (7):
3 Pit Fight
1 Gruul Charm
3 Searing Spear

Planeswalkers (2):
2 Domri Rade

Lands (22):
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
7 Mountain
7 Forest

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Skullcracks
SB: 3 Ground Assaults
SB: 2 Clan Defiance
SB: 2 Wolfir Silverheart
SB: 3 Wolfir Avengers
SB: 2 Lands

[Fate]

@Fate: Ash Zealot, Gore-House Chainwalker, Rakdos Shredfreak are all better for human gruul aggro deck than Hamlet Captain. And Ulvenwald Tracker is human removal on a stick.

the only reason I don't like tracker is because he's public.

They know I have removal on a stick, I much rather have pit fight which can't be removed and is instant, but yeah I'd like to fit him in.


Ash Zealots are great but...they CAN"T be cast off Burning tree emissary. Same with Shredfreak.

They're an example of "a solid constructed good value card" that has limited synergy with my deck.

Hamlet captain has the problem of not giving the bonus when he comes down which I found out as a limiter in some playtesting today, whereas I can play a mayor and he immediately has an effect on my entire team. Will probably stick with mayors just because I already have them

Ninja: Fuck off? Seriously, if you have nothing constructive to add just shut the fuck up. You know a lot more about magic than me, have a great deal more knowledge of the card base than me, and if you're going to use that advantage to look down your nose and mock me instead of help me achieve the goals I have with magic then I seriously don't want to read another one of your posts directed at me. I'm not special, I already acknowledged as much when I saw a deck come out on Magic's site the day after I thought of mine. But I at least THOUGHT of mine and enjoy playing it because it IS MINE and not just the community's agreed upon "best cards for those colors to win the game" instead it is "the best cards that suit the playstyle and particular theme/strategy I'mt trying to use."

[Fate]

Fate, I would seriously consider cutting the wild beastmasters. Without pump spells or effects for it's just a mediocre 1/1 for 3 - it'll give your guys like, no noticeable effect at all. Hamlet captain and ranger's guile, quite apart from the fact that you probably want to be saving the latter to use as a pseudo-counterspell most of the time, also don't amplify it very much, and that just leaves ghor-clan rampager. Which is obviously a powerful interaction, but I'm not sure it's worth having in your deck. Also super awkward that it never evolves experiment 1.

The second awkward thing is that all your dudes are small, and you have pit fight. I'll be blunt here, most of the time pit fight just wont clear dudes out of the way like you want it to. Searing spear is 3 damage, which is about the high end for your pit fight damage - yes in some dreamworld you might have a 6/6 rubblebelt raider and get to eat a thragtusk, but I think it's more likely that you're stuck with a 2/2 against an augur of bolas or something and pit fight is just dead in your hand where searing spear is not.

If you can pick up rancors, do that cause that card is sweet and awesome and the best thing. Plus if you make any other green beatdown decks rancors go in that as well.

pretty good points. I guess I have only been using pit fight with success with Rampagers (or using it on someone who was unblocked to deal "double" damage to someone that did block one of my guys, dealing 4-6 damage usually).

Rancors are on my to get list, I just don't understand when do good players fit that into their curve? Play another two drop on Turn 3 and rancor something thats swinging?

Wild beastmaster is out of my "somehwat legit" decklist as is ranger's guile. I just like their interaction as unviable as it is in a super competitive format. But Wild beastmaster is just a great card to use with blood rush and a bunch of little dudes swinging. And you can sure as hell pit fight those against a line for some clearance.


Question: Does Flinthoof Boar evolve Experiment 1? If it comes into play when I have a mountain, does that count as it being a 3/3 for evolution?

[Fate]

Point of view's a funny thing, here's mine:

Fate: I'm new to magic! Here's an assload of rules question that I have no idea how it resolves
You: Here's how that works
Fate: KEWLTHX

Shea: I enjoy playing magic at its most competitive format against equally competent people, thats what I find the most fun.
Fate: hmmm, maybe its because I'm not good, but I find that magic is the most fun when I get to play cards I enjoy against people I know personally, and also when I win.
Myko: HURRDURRDUR
Fate: Shut the fuck up myko you aren't even on topic

LATER

Fate: SO GTC came out and I love Gruul, here's a deck I thought of that fits my style and has cards I love. How can I make this semi-viable with more cards that fit my theme? I don't want advice on how to make it "tier 2 competitiionz yo" so if you could leave those out it'd be nice.
You: Those cards suck, Raiders suck, the cards you enjoy suck. You need Hellriders, Ash Zealots, and Thundermaw Hellkites. Hell, you need RDW and to realize that's the only deck that is viable that fits your style.
Fate: ??? You don't understand, I already know how to make a RDW deck. There's plenty of resources out there that point to the best cards for my playstyle, and Reck himself has shown me how to play RDW. I want to play a GRUUL early aggro deck that features a few gimmicky win things that I enhoy like Wild Beastmaster.
You: NOPE
Fate: *does some research which he should've done on his own I guess but HEY I THOUGHT I HAD A COMMUNITY TO ASK BUT GUESS NOT* wow Kessig Malcontents is a card that fits my gimmick, why did no one make me aware of this card?
You: Because it sucks
Fate: No, you REALLY don't understand, I REALZIE my deck isn't Standard ultra-competitive viable. but this is the sort of gimmicky card that fits my deck and I enjoy.... Wow HAMLET CAPTAIN seems pretty good for my deck too, you guys REALLY don't get what I'm asking do you?
Shanba: Here's some well reasoned advice to round your deck out more and make better use of the things you want /british
Fate: THANKS SHANBERS <3
Shea: RAWRAWRWARWRAR YOU WHINY BITCH THE WAY YOU PLAY MAGIC IS WRONG AND WANTING TO PLAY SUBPAR DECKS IS STUPID AND YOURE DUMB

[Fate]

Now, I'm pretty sure the root of all this is a misunderstanding Shea, so lets CLEAR THAT THE FUCK UP RIGHT NOW and get back to whatever mutual respect we had before.

ONE:

I REALIZE you feel like I "downplayed" the amount of skill it takes to play a game you find very precious and are dedicated to.

This is completely false.

It's not even an "opinion" I have that you can disagree with (that magic is too luck-based), that's NOT the opinion I have. I have a PREFERENCE. And that PREFERENCE is that Magic, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE LUCK IS (1 out of 100 games or 1 out of 1000 based on luck), its TOO luck based for

ME

PERSONALLY

to dedicate all that much time to mastering it. I rather just play it at the level I play now, which is playing enjoyable cards and trying to win with them.

So to make it clear: MAGIC IS DEFINITELY A SKILL BASED GAME AND PROBABLY TAKES YEARS TO MASTER AND HAS SUBTELTIES I HAVE YET TO EVEN BEGUN TO UNDERSTAND. I never stated otherwise, the CLOSEST I came was a semi-serious joke that a Mirror match with two decks that are DESIGNED TO HAVE NO INTERACTION WITH THE OPPONENT was determined by mostly luck. Which you took as an offense to ALL mirror matches and ALL of magic, and now have begun a crusade to shut me down at every percieved "assault" on the integrity of magic or every post I make.


I hope that's cleared up now.

Chamber I think I've been pretty clear. Cards in the Innistrrad block that I had no knowledge of that would fit my deck are what I was looking for for advice. AKA MALCONTENTS AND HAMLET AND THE LIKE. Hell there are probably still M13 cards I don't even know about. I think I've been very clear about the outline of my deck, and that the limitations are staying in my colors and in my niche strategy.

And if Shanba could understand that then the rest of you are just in this 'wall' where "deckbuilding=hyper-competitive meta worthy OR budget based gimmicks" with no inbetween, when there should be.

[Fate]

Maybe you could set the budget? That gives people a clear idea what cards can and cannot be used.

There isn't one really. I'll pay 20 for another Domri, but not X for a good card I don't enjoy (like hellkites)

Its not that those are the only 2, its that those 2 extremes are well defines goals, and 'somewhere in the middle' is much less well defined. Your desired strategy is also super straightforward, which makes it harder to innovate/be interesting in. I don't know what cards you know, if you want to learn all the r/g cards in standard, read through gatherer here: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Searc ... 29&format=[%22Standard%22]

[Fate]

You're right Chamber, and I ll admit I overreacted after I found some niche c cards, I was just angry I was being misunderstood.

Its not even innovation, I just like underdog cards that can be effective in my deck. Cards people won't see coming in a deck, catch them off guard at least.it doesn't have to be a combo that's brand new

[Fate]

to build on something chamber said, if you are only interested in doing fun things casually in magic against friends, why the hell are you playing a red based aggro deck? It's like the least interactive and most boring thing to do with magic cards.

If that's your desired level of magic (again, as chamber said, something that wasn't communicated very well until this exact moment) then I suggest you try commander. It is a format based around doing cool things playing magic with your friends, basically. 100 card deck comprised entirely of one-ofs. If I recall correctly, sudo plays that format with some level of regularity. Maybe he can give you a good entry point?

That's a matter of opinion. This deck is fun for me and has a theme/flavor I enjoy.

I feel like there's this wall of misunderstanding that is causing a lot of unnecessary animosity between us. Can we agree, which should've happened pages ago, that we enjoy the game in different ways?

Commander decks seem silly to me, but I appreciate the suggestion. But you see, I dislike what little luck is already

in standard magic

why would I want to play a format has only 1-ofs? Sure it'd allow me to use more cards "I enjoy" but I haven't been playing long enough to have 60 cards I enjoy, so maybe sometime down the line to consider (even though I don't see myself playing magic for years).

[Fate]

On an unrelated note, this guy might be my new favorite player to watch:
Tomoharu Saito, who went 5-0 with this decklist:
12 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Rancor

3 Traitorous Blood
4 Volcanic Strength
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Reckless Waif


The only thing I don't understand is 4x Reckless Waif. I understand WHY, because in control matchups the control player usually doesn't do anything, but his other side of the strategy: (early burn+BTE+Flinthoof Boar) will make his Waif flip immediately back at the end of turn 2 most times. I mean sure if he has ash zealots that'd be preferable, but what if his hand is

1 Reckless Waif, 2xBTE, 1 Flinthoof Boar, 1x Hellrider, 2x lands?

just seems like it would work against himself. sometimes that'd it be significant? Also I'm not sure why he doesn't have mugging in this deck and pillar of flame side-boarded for zombies or something? PoF seems good against zombies/re-animators but mugging seems better overall against all other decks.

[Fate]

pillar can always go to the head for 2, mugging has more trouble doing that if they've actually stabilized, or if they have no board at all.

I'm not sure how this part of the spell escaped me for so long >_>

[Fate]

I'd play a tournament, as well.

Fate: Commander is fantastic if you're into it; it's all about doing nutter things that you can't get away with in ordinary magic. It's a format where Thragtusk is too small to be worth playing.

If you're not into that, and you're really desperate to eliminate the luck element of magic, you can try

Mental Magic.

not sure if srs?

The thing with Commander is, at least with the article I readon it, there are even MORE "you have to have these duh" meta cards, like a bunch of must-include artifacts n shiiit. Because hell, if you have 60 different cards they can't ALL fit the same gimmick, you're gonna need some staple mana artifacts and things.


Though I have been looking for a way to put papa Rakdos in a deck <.<

[Fate]

Rakdos, Lord of Riots, the card. I haven't seen him any of the srz R/B decks, because of his conditional and CCCC costs.

[Fate]

I was hoping you'd explain what Mental Magic

is

to save me from looking it up but here we go

[Fate]

ohjeesus

[Fate]

2nd
MYOS

[Fate]

well a guy at my store says he's obsessed with Onslaught so HUE I got me some advice

[Fate]

don't tell anyone that'll ruin the fun

[Fate]

HEY RALEIGH DOES ANYONE HAVE CARDS I NEED:

1x Lightning Mauler
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Stomping Ground (HAI RECK)
4x Rancor
3x Traitorous Blood
2x Stromkirk Noble
2x Pillar of Flame

got plenty of shinies to trade so hold onto these <.<

[Fate]

I WANT to fit it in, don't get me wrong

But I'm thinking there's two ways to play R/G aggro, and one is with Experiment ones and Strangleroot geists and shit aka more forests than mountains

and the other is Stromkirk Nobles and Ash Zealots (and eventually hellriders).


So if I have a hand with ash zealot and experiment one and a Rootbound Crag+Mountain, or Forest+Mountain its like "WALP...."

So yeah leaving that one out to favor the more red side (bc I already have 4 ash zealots too and they are sexier with rancor than geists)

[Fate]

I see Experiment one being huge for Jund, with the easy curve of Ex 1 -> Geist -> Dreg Mangler -> [insert 4 drop here]

I'm just having a hard time (cuz lack of vision/creativity I guess) picturing why you would splash red in a Green deck (where Experiment 1 would be the main one drop) over splashing green in a red deck. Because if youre splashing red in a green deck, why not white/black too then and go midrange all the way?

[Fate]

On an unrelated note, this guy might be my new favorite player to watch:
Tomoharu Saito, who went 5-0 with this decklist:
12 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Rancor

3 Traitorous Blood
4 Volcanic Strength
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Reckless Waif.

I was referring to this R/G deck, that I've modified (with the cards I have/am willing to buy):

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/smash-kill-smash/

You can critique that for REALZ too, no hard feelings promise. Its my take to Standard night deck I'm working on, not my fun deck to play against Nuwen.

Yeah I'm trying to fit Domri in, because I really like how he plays out in mirror matches and even against control. I KNOW I should take Raiders out but I like the variety (and also don't want to have to buy 4 Hellriders >_>) on my 4 drops. I also want more Reckoners, but am not convinced I'm not better off just playing another 2 drop+Rancor OR Flinthoof Boar as a 3 drop.

But yeah I've played with Experiment 1 (as a one of and thats all I have) and even then I get hands where I can't play him first and evolve him every turn.

[Fate]

Like the one I linked? But its red splash green not the other way around which makes experiment one harder to fix for

[Fate]

NEEDS MOAR LOBBER CREW


But speaking seriously, what decks DID you beat to get 3rd? I have a hard time picturing your deck winning against Esper Control and Bant Auras. And you already said you have a tough time against aggro decks.

Also yeah I think Mizzium should go in there somewhere... how else do you deal with Loxodon Smiters and Resto angels? Weird can only block the former once (and only trade with 3 mana open)

[Fate]

am I stupid for thinking these cards have untapped potential in Standard?:


Wild Defiance

Boros Reckoner

Pit Fight
Wolfir Silvirheart
Hounds of Griselbrand
Strangleroot Geists n shit



For a more mid rangey G/R deck.

Pit fight a bound Silvirheart and a Reckoner? 11 damage to the face.

Pillar of flame my Geist? Nope hes a 5/3 before that happens.


Has survival from spears and shit against aggro, has huge guys and fighting potential against control (also domri rade against control)

Y/N?

[Fate]

wow lost of people on

I meant Boros Reckoner combod WITH a Pit fight and a silverheart, but yeah obviously a lot of people are going to build against him.


But the theme is mostly: Jundish style creatures (Aristocrat, replace Reckoner with Avengers), fighting, and Pit fighting WHILE make shit stronger to remove anything that could possible be on the board (and doubling as a pump spell for before you swing in)


I just think Pit fight with wild defiance= Removal AND +3/3 Pump spell AND protection from spears and shit. Im writing up a decklist we'll see if I can include black or not

[Fate]

BTW Pit fighting a Wasteland Viper with a Reckoner is a good way to deal with that card IMO

[Fate]

Don't make me edit my post

I get it Reckoners are overhyped the fuck for what they do

[Fate]

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/live-more-smash-more/

Here's what I was thinking


Extremely early rough draft, thoughts? Obvious inclusions? (Couldn't find a way to fit Rancor's in atm, except by cutting Arbor Elves?)

[Fate]

initial testing shows flinthoof boars were too greedy

Also getting to 5 mana is hard guiz

[Fate]

Great point.

More testing:

Rancor+Hound of G= LOLGG

[Fate]

FUCK IZZET

STATICASTERS

AFHRUHGRHUG OUTPLAYED SO HARD

[Fate]

no....

i just got baited into blocking a 3/5 Faithmender with a 4/4 because I had Wild Defiance out and didn't think he'd be able to kill me or pump his guy

Flashed a staticaster and took my 4/4 out, who would've been a 8/4 with mountain walk the next turn and I could've out raced his herpderp mender....

[Fate]

One of the things thats very important to playing magic well is the question "why is my opponent doing this?" which leads you to think about what cards might be in his hand and which of them you can successfully play around. In this case, depending on the deck, and the game situation, there is not a lot of reason for your opponent to attack (unless the life gain was super relevant) except to bait you into blocking, and there are tons of things that absolutely blow you out for doing so. If you had thought through this line of play it leads you to thinking about what bloodrush he could have, what burn he could have, izzet staticaster, etc, which would make me personally think that single blocking is probably not an option here. Taking it and double or triple blocking were probably your best options.

He had previously swung at me and I blocked, and he was like "ok pass turn" and I like I said I had protection from burn already, he didn't have green in his deck so no blood rush. I just didn't think of staticasters and got tarped like a baddie.

[Fate]

But I could've afforded to take another 3 damage (I was at 20 or 17 I think), because I had like 2 VStrengths and 2 Rancors in my hand. Risking my best body to PUT that shit on was hella dumb and cost me the game.

Forever /kickself

[Fate]

Anyways COCKATRICE got shut down and I'm surprised no one's posted about it here

???

WHAT DO FOR PLAYTESTING NAO?


Cockatrice was p. much free advertising for Magic and helped people get into the game... I know playing make-up drafts on there with scummers helped suck me in because I'd have never paid the start up fees for MTGO or whatever.

[Fate]

yeah Shea's pretty right.

Hell even if you sell your cards to a vendor for cheap (or on Ebay) and THEN switch to MTGO we'd probably make a profit Reck.

its just pretty dangerous to have access to my addiction on my computer... the hell else would I do with my time >_>

[Fate]

why the fuck haven't you been run off the site yet

[Fate]

Sorry, I had some coffee this morning.

Let me rephrase that.



Shea, do you play those colors in Standard (when you play standard)? Would you ever be interested in skrimming against me on MWS or something because that's a tough match-up for me.

ILL EVEN CALL YOU SENSEI

[Fate]

Hmmm think this is a good chance to set-up this post:

Standard Training Grounds

If you're interested in testing a brew, practicing a match-up, trying out SB options, this is the post for you!
Please post the build(s) you are willing to play against people who want to practice.

Player- Decks - AIM

Fate- Gruul Aggro, Rakdos Aggro -FatedFreedom13
Bv310- WUR
Chamber- Any netdeck you ask him -blargerer

[Fate]

Hmmm think this is a good chance to set-up this post:

Standard Training Grounds

If you're interested in testing a brew, practicing a match-up, trying out SB options, this is the post for you!
Please post the build(s) you are willing to play against people who want to practice.

Player- Decks - AIM

Fate- Gruul Aggro, Rakdos Aggro -FatedFreedom13
Bv310- WUR, Omnidoor, Combo, Bant Control
Chamber- Any netdeck you ask him -blargerer
Kdowns- Any Naya Deck

[Fate]

Updated.


Also found an alternate cockatrice server so I'll be playing on that mostly whooo

[Fate]

oooo shinies

I don't like Ogre though, 5cmc blood rush is ew.

Hounds of Griselbrand+Pump is much sexier. Also cut down on the Loyalist multiples.... for MOAR BOARS ALWAYS BOARS

Oh the article is about fixing up the deck nevermind.

Thanks for the link

[Fate]

I'm super excited for this cube that I'm building

Cubes are sweet. I hope you get as much use out of yours as I got out of mine.

what is this past tense

[Fate]

I heard rumors that they might, in the future (no time frame), include pack codes with paper cards you receive to allow you to upload them online.

I wouldn't have an excuse then XD

[Fate]

I think it would break the randomization of the packs if they had to include a code with each one that accurately marked each pack for what cards were inside. I suppose there's a way to do it via computer, but I feel like that'd be easily game-able.

And yeah, financially, they'd lose a ton of money if they did that.

The packs in boxes are already mapped out... its called "Box mapping" and its a real thing.

@Shea: Those are special cards and stuff, I was talking more along the lines of "all the paper cards you open now go onto MTGO as well"

[Fate]

Also I got a Thragtusk last night, if anyone at Raleigh is looking to make a deck with this damn card (Im looking at you Bantpie)

[Fate]

or he might be reprinted and jump back up in price

[Fate]

there will be more demand, because there are people like Pie who don't want to buy him BECAUSE he might not be reprinted.

gg

[Fate]

YOUR EXPERIENCE DOES NOT DAUNT MY FLAWLESS LOGIC AND ARROGANCE

[Fate]

I GOT ME MY FIRST PLAYMAT ;D

[Fate]

Snapcasters=expensive as fuck

[Fate]

We've been pretty lucky with winning drafts and opening shocklands with wincons. If we get enough to be able to trade off extras, 1 for 1 to trade for snapcasters might be feasible (although trading a shockland for a card that'll be good for 6 months is meh.)

Evil twin over soul ransom is a good point I suppose, and triggers Thrag's ETB effect? I just think Soul ransom catches people off guard and can even make then board in enchantment hate into G2 when she just boards them out all together.

[Fate]

I mean the deck she listed is what she went 4-1 with.

Its not"this is the decklist I'm running obv its the best combination of cards"

its what we threw together literally 3 hours before the event with the cards we had on hand in these colors. Staticasters is obv probably better in the side, but it worked out really well as a meta call because there were a lot of Aggro decks she crushed with it MB.

Evil twin makes a good contender for the soul ransom slot, but even if they can get rid of it built in, her deck is built around destroying hands (Rakdos' return) and getting card advantage that way, so it fits in with her win con. Two more cards=two more spells for Snipe and Talrand procs.

Soul ransom is a better answer to Olivia also, because they can just steal your olivia with theirs if you tap for twin and can't destroy it because of sickness.

[Fate]

We've been pretty lucky with winning drafts and opening shocklands with wincons. If we get enough to be able to trade off extras, 1 for 1 to trade for snapcasters might be feasible (although trading a shockland for a card that'll be good for 6 months is meh.)

Evil twin over soul ransom is a good point I suppose, and triggers Thrag's ETB effect? I just think Soul ransom catches people off guard and can even make then board in enchantment hate into G2 when she just boards them out all together.

Its more like 2 shocks for a snapcaster atm.

Gatecrash shocks are still trading for $20 at least the guy we traded for did it at that price

[Fate]

oh

Well then there's that

[Fate]

I wouldn't say she is "winning" if she has a lone guttersnipe on the board, which this has synergy with. Also forcing people to discard 2 to answer it on something soul ransomed or face down two threats is huge.

Like:
Swing with ransomed thing, they spear it or something to avoid damage, you copy it. Now they can face the copy instead or they can trade even MORE cards and give 2 cards to nuwen as a response. a Lsoe lose and not even a vexing devil sort of lose lose a card advantage at its finest lose lose.

Is it a bad card as the last card in your hand and being behind?

Yeah, but how many other cards in standard can I make that argument against. Resto angel looks pretty shitty when its all you have against XXXX. Mizzium mortars looks pretty crappy when you're facing down 2 boros reckoners that have resolved. Cards are shit when you're behind. If a deck's strategy is to be proactively ahead and answering things, then cards like this might have a place.

Some games you just lose, and it doesnt matter WHAT last card you had.

I seriously think you're just being narrow minded here Chamber

[Fate]

1.5 for 1ing?

What the hell? Soul ransom giver her TWO cards and costs him TWO.

Since she cast a spell that fizzles she only gains 1 NET.

So +1 her -2 him.

I'm not seeing how this is bad.

If they aren't pressured to remove it she just improved her board state and (maybe) triggered a Snipe or talrand.


You say you tried it when this card FIRST came out

That's not the same as now.

If it a card wasn't good when it first came out that doesn't mean it will never be good in the standard enviroment.

Soul ransom didn't exist back then, did Guttersnipe?

I also think your playstyle and sort of decks you use to win with are much too different than Nuwen's for you to fairly give feedback.

Your form of "control" is too white chamber. You are much more reliant on "safety" cards, so obviously you're not going to "get" a deck like Nuwen's.

I mean correct me if I'm wrong here, but would you ever play in Grixis in standard with all cards available to you for free? Would you EVER play Grixis when Sphinx's Revelation exists?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no. You love Sphinx's revelation too much. Its never a dead card right? Its always going to both stabilize you (Safety) AND get you card advantage no matter what right? Its a safe, reliable, good card.

Why would you trade that for risky hand destruction forms of CA and aggressive control tactics?

If I'm coming off as too judgemental here, forgive me because that's not my intentions (I try to understand, not judge), but my reads on this site have been historically better than average. And my read here is that you're being narrow minded because you are speaking from your own playstyle and view of magic, rather than seeing the potential (a more "experimental" attitude, which is what Red blue colors signify) in new decks.

The fact that you don't post "new" decklists but instead "reactively" sit back and judge other decklists shows that you are pretty firmly in Blue white mindset like I was thinking, so understanding a deck that isn't in this colors is hard for you. "Why play risky when you can play safe sphinx's?" is what your subconscious is telling you. Its because risk can pay off if you're willing to make it.

Are we better magic players than you? No. No one's saying that. Obviously you and a lot of other people making comments on nuwen's deck are much more experienced. And that comes into play OFTEN when PLAYING magic. You beat me pretty regular on cockatrice, I'm sure you'd beat Nuwen to. That is NOT proof that her deck design is bad though, it means you played better.

Deck design is more about a puzzle than skill. What beats the meta game? Whats interesting? What will surprise people? I think that's a skill you can have, being inventive and

creative

, without necessarily being good at magic.

[Fate]

Its not the only time she's using it....we just described how it worked with soul ransom in detail....

Negate doesn't stop Abrubt decay, a very prominent card, last time I checked either.

Your comments are fine, input is fine. I'm sure you've experienced every type of deck there is through drafts or what not, that comes with being an experienced player.

I'm just here to debate your input, where I think its coming from, and where I have issues with it. Its called a discussion

[Fate]

Cheaper, also flexible and can deal with enemy threats (tempoing them, not dealing really).

But its also less aggressive, in "save my snipe" mode.

If she has to REPLAY her Guttersnipe.. thats a huge tempo loss. She just lost 3 mana she could've held up for a counterspell to deal with their thragtusk olivia/huntmaster that's about to land. It means she caan play her guttersnipe on turn 4 with a Blue mana up to protect it, yeah, but ideally she destroyes their hand first, then plays snipe safely into anything except a topdecked abrupt decay (which happens so it happens). Every turn after that she can keep up the pressure and not lose tempo with unsummon.

Like I said, riskier, but can pay off more (keeping a snipe on the field as opposed to having to replay him). Maybe playing both in the deck would pay off even more though. Its a good suggestion for sure

[Fate]

Unsummon saves them from board wipes, which flicker and counterpart cant do. Its probably a great option against jund, can remove their olivias that are too strong as well, and stop their bonfires

[Fate]

Turns out the entire last page was a waste... since we were arguing with the basis that Soul Ransom, once its cost was paid, caused the creature to be sacrificed.

WHOOPS

Yeah its just another bad vexing devil esque card...


Fucking hell, and apologies.

Nuwen got another Augur last night so yay

[Fate]

Words

Less eloquent words, but saying the same thing

I lol'd

[Fate]

SHEA DOESNT PLAY MAGIC FOR FUN YOU FOOL

HE.

PLAYS.

TO.

WIN.

[Fate]

FP Ripscale predator, shit has MADCAPSKILLS BUILT IN YO

Kingpin's pet may be good, but if you let someone get drakweing and go simic you'll get ****ed by simic as orzhov.

Hell I'd take the Rapid Hybridization.

Loyalist is p. trashy without his rancor, but with bloodrush i guess maybe sure he could maybe sure....yeah no.

[Fate]

Isn't mill sort of a trap in Limited? It feels like it's really hard to pull off when you're just kind of taking what comes.

As a sole win con yeah

But Wizards designed dimir with Wight's of precinct 6, aberratoins, death's approach etc. to give them double.


ALSO:

Another awesome interaction with nuwen's deck has been found:

Shadow Slice+Guttersnipe.

If she has a dragon out (ok we're stretching into win-more, but this comes more often than you might think against midrange):

Swing with dragon. They don't block cause its only 4 damage and they don't want to lose their resto angel:

INSTANT SPEEED CIPHER BITCH. TAKE 14.

huehuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuheuhue


Dont ninja me damnt bv.

Went 3-0 tonight with my Gruul Ragehammer deck. SMASH=WINGAMES. Most notable win was against Bant midrange that managed a turn 4/5 Angel of serenity G1, I came back with a vengeance and fought through endless thrags.

[Fate]

Ruric-Thar, the Unbowed RG4

Vigilance, Reach. Ruric-thar, the Unbowed attacks each turn if able. Whenever a player plays a noncreature spell, Ruric-Thar, the Unbowed deals 6 damage to that player.

6/6

GRUUL ZEALOT SMASH

GRUUL ZEALOT SAY YOU NO CAST FANCY SPELLS

SPHINXS FOR WHAT?

-3?

THOUGHT SO

[Fate]

I'd rather him have HASTE+reach though

what is this vigilance shit in my colors

[Fate]

err im retarded haste+reach would be silly mechanic wise, but what I meant was flavor wise.

Haste+Trample? NOW WERE TALKING RIGHT? HEHAHA. THEN wed be on the level of Obzedat, Thragtusk and Aurelia lvls of BS.

[Fate]

it seems like a brutal deck when it works shea, but with all those damn spells, how are you getting good hands?

Like I can see hands being:

2 land, charm cahrm chamr, unsummon, snapcaster, spell rupture.

Or

Ex. 1, cloudfin raptor, land, land, unsummon, charm,


well you get my point.


What I would do is cut down on some spells, add strangelroot geist (evolves your stuff twice usually, aggro staple if you can cast it) and maybe some http://tappedout.net/mtg-card/Yeva-Natures-Herald/ as a curve topper? Has flash, evolves all your shit, is better at killing things than azorius charm and simic charm

[Fate]

e yeah Iwas afraid to say it and be chatized, but I think the snaps are the weakest part of the build.

for some reason he looks forced here, not to mention he doesnt evolve much when he comes down

[Fate]

yeah garruk and olivia where in the same pack somehow, neither of them are foil

YUPPPP

I would've come in first for my pod but Reck had to go and beat me game 1 so I was 3-1 for the night.

[Fate]

Spell Rupture ftw?

[Fate]

you can't regenerate hypridization creatures

[Fate]

the negates in his SB are literally his only countermagic is what he's saying...

NINJA POSTING IT ANYWAY

[Fate]

yeah we'll definitely swing by for some playtest group goodness. I still owe Gamma's deck a beatdown too

PM your # Pie

[Fate]

If you can't beat them, join them?

Don't give me that shit Shea

just try harder to beat them

[Fate]

THE GRUUL WAY

[Fate]

That's a horrible analogy Shea and you should know it, but yes you're right re: your deck and your opinions. That's fine, I'm just saying don't give UP on non-value decks because of discouragement

[Fate]

ok, so your opinion is that the way your deck is suboptimal, so you need to figure out a better strategy.

The analogy was: "I was just moving my pawns around like a retard, so the answer is not to move them around more like a retard its to learn how to play chess"

You weren't moving it randomly in the first place.... There was plenty of logic and thought behind it

[Fate]

why the hellvwould you play something besides aggro Reck

DONT YOUBETRAY ME TOO

[Fate]

I thought their win con was waiting for the other player to flip the table...

[Fate]

It's just that Aggro is Aggro. Land Creature Swing End turn, Rinse and Repeat.

Midrange and Control decks are fun.

Aggro is fun for some people, and it's not as "hurrdurr mindless" as you might think

RED IS THET HINKING MANS COLOR

[Fate]

Well I disagree that it is that simple. Overextending your hand is definitely a thing. There are decks that are "all-in" where yeah, you maximize damage and if they stabilize you scoop, but there also aggro decks that require more thought and a lot of reading. Does he have enough removal to deal with my threats? Can I hold back this threat so I don't extend into a boardwipe while also putting him on a fast enough clock? Is he bluffing removal so I should play X threat or does he have it and I need a weaker threat or to wait for him to tap out?

There's definitely strategy involved.

To say it is "that mindless" is hilariously dumb. And its especially hypocritical after fighting for me with all your heart about "MAGIC ISNT A GAME WITH RNG ITS ALL SKLLLZ YO" but now you're saying there's a viable dech archetype in standard that literally involves no other skill besides playing dudes and turning them sideways in the most efficient manner possible which is unbeatable with the nuts hand? Bullshit.

Are the less decisions trees? Yeah I said that. But that doesn't make it "mindless" or less "strategically involved."

Is a Vanilla set-up of mafia less skill-based than a Complex Reck set-up?

[Fate]

I've played every single "meta" deck archetype there is while playtesting, so don't give me that shit.

The reason most new players aggressive decks is that "play dudes turn them sideways" is what is THOUGHT of as the only line of play there is, so its "simple."

There's definitely a higher skill tier than you're giving it. How the hell do top tier aggro players like Saito even exist if the archetype? He is able to consistently pilot the deck and outmanauver other "real" decks to rise above them.

Yes there's more variance, and sure its easier to win by just "playing dudes and attacking huehue free win" if you play against a slow hand.

But winning the games that ARE fair, you have to get an advantage. And getting an advantage with a deck that is "predictable" takes skill and strategy.

[Fate]

Your habit of changing the subject or just ceasing to respond when you realize you're wrong is really petty you know that?

[Fate]

If its less interesting to you thats fine, leave it that. Less complex is the words you should use though, because thats a truism. You can't say "this is my opinion on whats interesting, that's a truism." That's just trolling

Obviously a combo loving player looking at an aggro deck will think its...

ah fuck it, we're done here. Night, hope you get to chuck mountains at people with Borbo

[Fate]

more selesnya charms

reck there were soo many bullshit rites players last night.

EXILE

THEIR

SHIT

why do you have 4 amass the what the fucks

[Fate]

I argue with chamber too wtf give him some credit

[Fate]

deck thinning secret op

[Fate]

Reck's running Flux Capacitor instead, which sounds a helluva lot more fun than budget bant

[Fate]

best name?

I'm probably going to need master biomancers for trade fodder for Reckoners and my Gyre Sages for RunicThar.dec so don't get too attached to them, Reckoner...

<_____<
>___>

[Fate]

I'm sure someone will think of interesting ways to use his +1.... probably to untap that thing that adds 3 mana of any color to your pool?

[Fate]

that things+Snapcaster mage

DEAR

GOD

WHY

FUCKING

UWR

[Fate]

@pie: I liked that card better when it was the 3cmc version that was a mini staticaster+card draw hybrid.

Now he's at 6 mana and wutttttt


Also show me where they say we're getting our champion cause sounds like BAITNSWITCH

[Fate]

oh INTRO pack not prerelease pack

greedy fucks

[Fate]

MASTER OF CRUELITIES MEET MY ROGUE PASSAGE DECK

DONE

HAEHAHHAEHAHAHAA

[Fate]

I think he's pretty sexy in grixis decks, also olivia can't start defense the turn she comes down unless you have a lot of mana and dies to searing spears etc.

[Fate]

Yeah, pretty sure I was talking about the second.

I dunno, I tend to only follow spoiler season very lightly, mainly because everyone always hyperventilates about cards which end up being bad and dismisses cards that are actually amazing. If magic players have proved anything with each iteration of spoiler season it is that we are all fantastically terrible at card evaluation until we can actually play with the cards in context. I can see any of the cards that I've seen here (read: the only ones I've looked at) being amazing under the right circumstances, and all of them also being virtually unplayable. Its just important to take spoiler season with a grain of salt, and that grain of salt is that we suck.

[Fate]

Yeah, pretty sure I was talking about the second.

I dunno, I tend to only follow spoiler season very lightly, mainly because everyone always hyperventilates about cards which end up being bad and dismisses cards that are actually amazing. If magic players have proved anything with each iteration of spoiler season it is that we are all fantastically terrible at card evaluation until we can actually play with the cards in context. I can see any of the cards that I've seen here (read: the only ones I've looked at) being amazing under the right circumstances, and all of them also being virtually unplayable. Its just important to take spoiler season with a grain of salt, and that grain of salt is that we suck.

[Fate]

dat anti rdw champion

[Fate]

ooooo


dat champion promo

TRYHARD MODE ENGAGE

[Fate]

you blue white players make me sick

SICK

[Fate]

how the fuck


do you have 2900 cards

[Fate]

ONCE YOU ARE TAINTED BY BLUE WHITE YOU ALWAYS BE A BLUE WHITE PLAYER

[Fate]

to build on something chamber said, if you are only interested in doing fun things casually in magic against friends, why the hell are you playing a red based aggro deck? It's like the least interactive and most boring thing to do with magic cards.

If that's your desired level of magic (again, as chamber said, something that wasn't communicated very well until this exact moment) then I suggest you try commander. It is a format based around doing cool things playing magic with your friends, basically. 100 card deck comprised entirely of one-ofs. If I recall correctly, sudo plays that format with some level of regularity. Maybe he can give you a good entry point?

Also, it's too bad EDH is a terrible boring format.

Lulz

[Fate]

When 19 years playing this game you have, 2900 cards a lot will not seem.

I probably have like 1000 lands alone. :-/ Boxes upon boxes upon boxes back in NY. Most of it is crap.

thats what fire is for

[Fate]

Pretty bold statement for a pretty diverse archetype

Naya Blitz continues to place. Big Gruul got 2nd at a SCG Invitational I think, and R/g still works well

[Fate]

Pretty bold statement for a pretty diverse archetype

Naya Blitz continues to place. Big Gruul got 2nd at a SCG Invitational I think, and R/g still works well

Aggro was no where near top at invitational. I talked to multiple people who were playing Naya Blitz/Humans. 8/10, If they Kill your First two creatures you lose.
You only win against the other Decks if you get a nut draw and Kill them by Turn 5. If you go to Midgame as a Aggro Deck you will lose.

I haven't seen Aggro place highly recently.

Yeah that's Naya Blitz in a nutshell. If you nut draw you can't beat. Its still not the only aggro deck.

. from 2013 StarCity Invitational Standard - Atlanta
1st - American Midrange by Gerry Thompson
2nd - Esper Superfriends by Shaheen Soorani

3rd - 4th - Gruul Midrange by Ross Merriam

3rd - 4th - Junk Rites by Brian Braun-Duin
5th - 8th - Esper Control by Michael Hetrick
5th - 8th - American Midrange by Phillip Lorren
5th - 8th - Esper Control by Ben Lundquist
5th - 8th - Jund Midrange by Adam Prosak

Oh look at that.

Last time I checked Gruul was an aggro deck. Hell I consider Naya midrange an aggro deck and if you don't think that shit is viable I don't know what to tell you