Micro 365 - ALL YEAR LONG haha see what i did there (over)

[Espressojet]

Oh, FUCK! I completely forgot about this game I'm so sorry Sal! I'll do my best to catch up.

[Espressojet]

So we're still missing one

[Espressojet]

Well, shit, there's already a lynch!

[Espressojet]

egads you've seen through my ruse!!!!

VOTE: Maruchan

since you know, self votes don't count in this setup

FUCK, I was gonna pull the same stunt when I first read the rules in the queue!

I have many friends

vote me and we can do a triangle voting thingy wouldn't that be cool

jk that's lame

VOTE: Pants

How did Xayzexk not get immediately lynched for trying to hammer without a cause?

So, instead of some quick bullshit. Lets take it slow. How are you two?

I'm fine, how's your day going? I'm sincerely sorry about not being here!

[Espressojet]

Crap I missed that one! I did though!!... I may have skimmed them again...

[Espressojet]

Isn't that... we can't, right?

[Espressojet]

Isn't that... we can't, right?

Oh shit. I'm sorry, I mistakes this for the other triplicate mafia.


Hmmm. PL AC?

Only if he doesn't post within the next... uhhh... let's say... 8 hours

Didn't you want to take this slow? I guess that was at the beginning of the game...

[Espressojet]

I will say though Salamance, the notion that you need to hurry along a lynch cause the rest of the groups are settled is B.S. Use the time you need, and lynch scum. k thx

Your group doesn't look settled to me.

also VOTE: Espressojet

[Espressojet]

He should be getting a prod soon, and if he doesn't respond in time then that's a lynch.

[Espressojet]

No self voting

Does it matter?

[Espressojet]

here's my thought process behind all of this, if you think its wrong in some way then go for it but you should at least gather that I thought this through:

I self vote, and claim scum. In doing so, I rob both you and Xay of the ability to do and RVS vote.

Now, in cases where town claims scum and tries to get lynched, what is the optimal move for scum to make? If scum engages with said townie, they have to fake 2 reactions: reacting to the scum claim and reacting to the town flip. Additionally, spearheading a lynch against a player who pulled a gambit like that would throw a lot of focus and attention onto whoever did so. In short, engaging with a townie who claimed scum is a bad idea as scum.

Now, as town, if a player claims scum then the optimal move is to vote that person. There is no need to worry about the flip and any attention that may come form it.

In short, scum avoids the gambit, town is attracted to it. Since Xay's reaction was to say "uhhh no" and instantly vote me, I see Xay as town. Since you opened by scum reading Xay via PoE, I see you as scum.

Scum is much more inclined to play with their brains than with their balls. Xay was playing with his balls on page 1.

Wouldn't you also have been using your brain on page one? The entire thought process behind this makes me suspect Dr Pants more and more. It's highly likely that a scum would INITIATE this just to get a good lynch going.

This, and I could very well believe that the whole "Hurr durr scumtalk" bit was a ruse.

[Espressojet]

true, but I play aggressively.

hold back for a sec and lets temporarily olive branch. give me a well thought out case for why I should vote Xay over you. Examine the actual arguments (not BS chest puffing fluff) that I've made and tell me what you agree/disagree with.

pedit:

You seem to be playing rather defensively now

[Espressojet]

You're very scummy. I honestly wouldn't believe that you've never been lynched.

[Espressojet]

Meta is never a solid defense.

You look like you're trying to pit town v town right now.

I can see all of your posts coming from a scum mindset.

(oh hey, thanks for prodding me in btw)

[Espressojet]

Ok. Well lets make this a learning experience for you then.

Describe, in detail, what makes me "very scummy". Give a full, comprehensive argument.

1)

If you don't believe I've never been lynched, check my wiki and my completed games history. But, tbh, its not relevent

@ Salamance: Ignore your criticism of me and think of it this way: I gave Maru a full argument. I have been transparent. I have said why I am doing what I am doing. I can be hostile towards you if you haven't done anything

2)

@ Espresso: Sweet jesus you can be thick. What of my posts is from a scum mindset? use specifics and examples.

3)

@ Both of you: remember the part where you can only lynch in your own pool?

4)

and where you have a good shot of getting scum if you actually put your mind to it?

Ok

1)I do believe you. I said

WOULDN'T

believe it. Lern 2 grammmrr.

2)I've already clearly laid out posts I think are scummy

3)Do you want me to cease scumhunting you, or anyone else outside my group for that matter? Is that what you're suggesting? Because the scummiest thing anybody can suggest is to stop scumhunting. And I know you're gonna pull the "but i nevr sed 2 stop scumhuntng" crap, but that's what you're clearly saying, that I shouldn't be examining other players right now.

4)Good shot? There's a one in three chance that there isn't even a scum within our group. Jesus, one of our members isn't even HERE. I JUST got here, and I've already figured out what I want to do in this group for myself.

[Espressojet]

btw, if you find you and someone within your group have similar thoughts about someone external to the group, then one of you is likely scum

How is this even?

This just looks like more Town v Town pitfight fodder.

[Espressojet]

Oh hey you can self vote.

This game.

You CAN.

They don't count though.

[Espressojet]

Mod?

[Espressojet]

@Espressojet Why did you call Xayzeck out on his 'hammer' but not sns

Because, the hammer was an obvious bait, and the more I thought about it, the more I think it was from Dr. Pants as a scum motivation.

What I don't get is why Espresso self voted, after I (wrongly I guess) told him that it wasn't a legal vote. Was he trying to be funny? Additionally, he's playing highly aggressive, which is a complete change from the game I just finished with him.

My vote is not going to change from Maru. I'm basically convinced he's scum at this point.

I guess I'm going to have to say this in every game I'm in now...

people play different games differently regardless of alignment. You wouldn't want to play every single game with the same strategy would you? No. You wouldn't. That would be boring as fuck.

The fact maru didnt vote you bothers me too.

VOTE: AC

I was hoping he'd show up... Ah well

VOTE: AC

[Espressojet]

I guess it's down to Huckleberry now

[Espressojet]

my specific issue with Espresso this game is that he's being very opportunistic. Given what I've seen from him, as town I would expect him to be much more paranoid of the people within his group than he currently is.

pedit: Maru is scum, trust me on this one

Guess I gotta say it again.

People play different games differently regardless of alignment. You wouldn't want to play every single game with the same strategy would you? No. You wouldn't. That would be boring as fuck.

[Espressojet]

@ espresso: while this may be true, you can't use it as an excuse for playing in a way that shows a scummy motivation.

for example: if you are town, you know that theirs a high chance that you have scum in your group. Thus, you'd want to focus on lynch the single best person from your group. But you've decided very quickly that Salamance is town, and that you should lynch the guy who hasn't posted. Additionally, all of your focus has been on me, and I am not within your group. Essentially, you are doing "fake scumhunting" by pushing me when you can not vote for me, and choosing to lynch a person who has no posts while not examining Salamance.

@sns: you've said N_M looks better to you as of late. Why is your vote still there? what do you like about Naz?

Ha, are you kidding? I've been thinking Salamance was scum the whole time! I've never said anything about him. If you guys want to delay your vote until our third arrives, go ahead, and I'll vote for Salamance instead.

[Espressojet]

I haven't said anything about Sal BECAUSE THERE'S NOBODY HERE WHO NEEDS TO HEAR IT.

[Espressojet]

for now though

UNVOTE:

consider my vote still on Maru, however I don't want this day to end this quickly. No real work has gone into the Ilama group yet, and I want to hear more from Naz and N_M as well.


pedit: if you've been thinking Salamance scum, why are trying to end the day this quickly? and we ALL need to hear it, even if we have no input for today, since it becomes very relevant tomorrow

Your group is still undecided. If somebody decides to end the day within your group, I can be assured that they are scum. We lynch them, we lynch Sal, Badda bing badda boom we won.

[Espressojet]

I'm not scum. Lynching me is a mistake.

UNVOTE:

[Espressojet]

Just because I don't conform to your meta doesn't make me scum

[Espressojet]

I swear to fucking god I'm not town. But there's nothing I can do, and AC's gonna show up and vote me, so whatever. I guess this game is done for me, then.

I still think

Dr Pants

is scum, and flipping the pressure on me after I heavily pressured him was a smart move on his part, because it obviously worked.
I have an inkling that

Sal

is scum, because he wanted us to take it slow, but yet advocated for a policy lynch. A very quick change of heart.
I don't know anything about

AC

but I'm not confirming him town just because I suspect Sal to be scum.
Townlean for

sns

Null on

NM

More reads in a bit

[Espressojet]

I swear to fucking god I'm

not

town[/b]

. But there's nothing I can do, and AC's gonna show up and vote me, so whatever. I guess this game is done for me, then.

I still think

Dr Pants

is scum, and flipping the pressure on me after I heavily pressured him was a smart move on his part, because it obviously worked.
I have an inkling that

Sal

is scum, because he wanted us to take it slow, but yet advocated for a policy lynch. A very quick change of heart.
I don't know anything about

AC

but I'm not confirming him town just because I suspect Sal to be scum.
Townlean for

sns

Null on

NM

More reads in a bit

Well, now I'm definitely gonna die.

[Espressojet]

I swear to fucking god I'm not town.

Wut.

Yeah, I meant to say not scum, but got distracted.

There's no defending myself now, so I might as well not even try. More reads in a bit.

[Espressojet]

Naz

looks town-ish, but I would like to see him post more.
I'm on the fence about

Xay

Maru

I THINK is town, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him flip scum

Have a good rest of the game guys

[Espressojet]

Did I forget anyone btw?

[Espressojet]

Never said confscum, but I would be highly suspicious of you

PEdit: Yeah, that happened

[Espressojet]

Sal, I could be wrong about thinking you're scum, just want to say that before I flip.

I was suspicious of you, but now I do understand that you were probably pretty fucking bored in this thread.

[Espressojet]

There's no way anybody would come into this thread and not lynch me, Sal.

[Espressojet]

and with that you've cemented yourself as scum

if you were town, you'd be at least suspicious of Salamance right now, if not outright screaming for his lynch

And yet, here we are.

[Espressojet]

There's no way anybody would come into this thread and not lynch me, Sal.

Im kinda buying the ate.

There's no AtE here, I've just accepted my fate.

[Espressojet]

There's no way anybody would come into this thread and not lynch me, Sal.

Im kinda buying the ate.

There's no AtE here, I've just accepted my fate.

Wow, this is very existential...

[Espressojet]

Hi, I'm catching up. From our own ISO, I already see me and Aegor play this setup in a very different manner and we'll try to get our thoughts synced first before posting anything definite.

Tierce(Naz)

Don't insult me, tyvm.

I voted him simply because Naz did. Hes in my group so why not.

I don't see why you would vote him, then. Why not us, for instance? Did you have a feeling you could trust us or was it random?

What do you think of Pants thus far?

He's been super lame thus far. Definitely not townish. His selfvote was generic, his page 1 townread on xay for saying hi was bull and the reads on page 2 were way too early. I don't really associate this early game overeagerness with town, but then again, neither do I necessarily do that with scum. What do you think about him?

Why is pants town? Because his (albeit defunct) arguments on why activity interacting within your group is good.

Saying obvious things as 'interacting within your group is good' is worth a towntell nowadays? Boo.

This is a good post, I'm seeing sns more as Null, now

[Espressojet]

Naz...how did I insult you exactly?

And I voted NM because Ive played with him before, your very few posts seemed fine, and no lynch was gonna happen immediately.

Espresso? How does that change your read on me exactly?

He iterated upon some things I had not thought about.

I'm here. Reading. Gimme a few.

Good to finally have you.

Lolz. Who are you?

He's the last one in my group

[Espressojet]

Either:

We wait it out and let mafia pick for us, leaving to wifom and nk anaylsis.
Lynch espresso, so scum dont wifom him later based on his scum post

I'm probably the best lynch here, you guys can in no way guarantee that I'm town

[Espressojet]

Espresso, do you still feel you are the best lynch in your group?
-Tier

A town lynch should never be the best lynch, but as it stands I don't have a strong scumread coming from either group member. Even though I'm still suspicious of Sal, there's nothing to merit a strong scumread. Potentially, I am the biggest threat to town because of WIFOM arguments and being an easy mislynch. If I do believe that both of my group buddies are town, then it's in my best interest for the whole of the town to have myself lynched instead of the other two.

[Espressojet]

It's because they think you are scum

[Espressojet]

Well that's a given. Thanks for saying it for everyone to hear so we can't use that to catch scum.

[Espressojet]

Ok tier/aegor, this will be the last post I make for the day, I will not be posting anymore until we lynch.

First, Espresso: Let's say for hypothetical sake you and pants are mafia and I get lynched.

You will follow along by saying espresso slipped and now should be lynched by killing AC.

Total WIFOM.

To sum up: it is town-motivated to lynch espresso to prevent scum to manipulate espresso later.

Secondly: I don't care what you are going to say about it: persuading and scumhunting in other groups is pointless and scummy because YOU CAN NOT DIRECTLY AFFECT IT. There is almost no point in doing it (and I know I am guilty of it too), because I can hunt tomorrow based on interactions IN THE GROUP. It's like outside influences.

I'm done.

This part confuses me.

[Espressojet]

Ok tier/aegor, this will be the last post I make for the day, I will not be posting anymore until we lynch.

First, Espresso: Let's say for hypothetical sake you and pants are mafia and I get lynched.

You will follow along by saying espresso slipped and now should be lynched by killing AC.

Total WIFOM.

To sum up: it is town-motivated to lynch espresso to prevent scum to manipulate espresso later.

Secondly: I don't care what you are going to say about it: persuading and scumhunting in other groups is pointless and scummy because YOU CAN NOT DIRECTLY AFFECT IT. There is almost no point in doing it (and I know I am guilty of it too), because I can hunt tomorrow based on interactions IN THE GROUP. It's like outside influences.

I'm done.

This part confuses me.

I get lynched
AC dies
HURR HURR ESPRESSO SLIPPED DIE

VOTE: Salamence

[Espressojet]

ok, but where exactly am I "forcing towniness"?

The argument for me being scum is bullshit, because its basically "I don't have any real evidence that Pants is scum but I can feel that he's doing this on purpose because he is scum".
Its stupid.

As much as I think Pants is the scum in my group, I'm curious about a scum motivation for getting me lynched from xayzeck and how likely it might be. In a situation where most of the game is scumreading Pants, but Pants is scumreading me over xayzeck, IF xayzeck were scum, would it not be in scum's best interest to lynch me with Pants to get rid of the townier of the two town in the group of three rather than lynch Pants with approval from the rest of the game?

This does worry me, because if no scum get lynched day 1 and I live to day 2, I will be the lynch candidate. It seems fairly obvious right now.

This is why I said that people who are scum hunting within other groups but town reading their own group are scummy, because scum is going to try to stir up shit within the all town group.

This alone makes me want Naz and Ac out from the other 2 groups.

"I HAVE A TOWN KILL LOCKED IN, STOP TRYING TO INTERFERE WITH MY SCUM PLANS!"

[Espressojet]

[Espressojet]

It's not like it's a solid accusation, I'm just throwing the possibility out there. You've probably seen me do it before.

[Espressojet]

Your explanation for lynching me is literally just "HURR DURR WIFOM"

Why would I ever kill AC in the night if I was scum?

[Espressojet]

Ummmm.

1. Yes WIFOM remember, you said it yourself: "lynch me I slipped, it's for the best"
2. It was hypothetical as in you lynch me and mafia is in the other groups, allowing them to kill AC and blame you over wifom

So do you have any other reasons for wanting to lynch me?

[Espressojet]

UNVOTE:

If Espresso, Maru, and Sns are all town, then I'm going to get easily mislynched tomorrow and we will lose.

I have a deal I'd like to propose. Naz and AC get lynched today. In return, I will lynch myself. Since both believe I am scum, and that they have the all town group, then this should be an easy choice for them.

That's a terrible idea. What are you trying to do?

[Espressojet]

I'll make it easy by hammering myself

This might be selfish, but I don't really care.
Worst case scenario: we've lynched the obvious day 2 target (me), and 2 people who would be the most suspicious in their groups tomorrow anyways.

You can't hammer yourself, SELF VOTES DON'T COUNT.

[Espressojet]

i actually like that idea. Now to decide if he just towntold by sacrificing himself, or if this is WIFOM to make it APPEAR as if he'd sacrifice himself, when in reality he wouldn't. If the first, then i definitely think xayzeck is the brilliant scum hiding behind Pants vs Maru fighting, and if the second then pants is defo scums still.

He can't even kill himself anyways, it's up to the rest of the group.

[Espressojet]

Pants, why AC out of my group?

[Espressojet]

Remove the possibility of me getting mislynched on day 2 (high possibility) in exchange for the 2 people who are scum reading the hell out of me and doing more outside of their groups than in them

pedit: they do count, ISO N and you'll see that your self vote counted

No, they've been marked down. Unless otherwise specified, I assume the rules are correct, and they don't count towards a lynch. Of course he's going to write down that you vote yourself.

For fucks sake

MOD, can you confirm this?

[Espressojet]

oh... the rule left.

[Espressojet]

Well I'm thick.

Ignore me.

[Espressojet]

1) Yes, but you should have no cause to believe that I'm town.
2) Look to where my vote lies.

Once again:

It's because they think you are scum

PEdit: You make a good point, but can you not see why town would want to scumhunt outside their circle? In fact, it's inherently more scummy not to.

[Espressojet]

Scum hunting outside the circle is fine, but its not fine to ONLY scum hunt outside the circle. No one here is a scum hunting god. No one here knows which group is the all town group (except scum, obviously). So why are so many freaking people saying that they have the special group?

It doesn't bother you at all that AC will lynch you while having a town read on you? Because it really, really, should.

What about Sal? Is he not also going to lynch me for the same exact reason?

[Espressojet]

Sal had a very town reaction to you when you "slipped". It looked like he thought you legitimately slipped. Where is AC's reaction to your "slip"? NOWHERE. In his town read of you, he NEVER mentions it. That makes Salamance's stance different than AC's, and makes AC's the scummy one.

The only people who know I didn't slip are scum.

[Espressojet]

Wouldn't a scum want to pretend think I slipped so they could lynch me?

Furthermore, why do you KNOW I didn't slip?

[Espressojet]

I dont, but a lynch on you was very likely and met little resistance. It would have been disastrous for you and your partner if you were scum. So unless your partner gave zero shits about losing you (unlikely since scum has day talk), your lynch would be at least debated.

IF Espresso is town, scum would let this flow.

IF Espresso is scum, he's lynchbait anyway for the slips, and any resistance to that would draw so much suspicion. You should recognize that, even if you think he'll flip town, if you redirect the lynch onto another town it puts Espresso in a bad spot, and the next day he's going to get mislynched unless he suddenly becomes the beacon of towniness this game. And mislynching tomorrow is far from ideal.

I think his slips are just hardderps more than anything, and I can't concretely say scum or town, though it definitely leans scum. The problem is, the way he reacts to his slips isn't something I'd expect from scum, so I'm slightly town about it. Did he cover up quickly and that well? Or is he really just town?

Scumbuddy would gain more out of bussing than helping to shift wagons onto someone else, me thinks.

The fact that Ac is scummy as all hell helps. Originally I thought that Espresso was just accepting defeat, but then his group had to go and town read him.

You're contradicting yourself, now you think I WAS slipping?

[Espressojet]

I very much think pants is scum. I don't feel like I need to explain this opinion at this point because it has been heavily laid out throughout the thread, both by myself and other people.

Jussayin'

[Espressojet]

I very much think pants is scum. I don't feel like I need to explain this opinion at this point because it has been heavily laid out throughout the thread, both by myself and other people.

Jussayin'

what was the point of this?

Jussayin'

[Espressojet]

Also, for anyone who thinks that Espresso is scum, he's rejecting a plan that prevents him from getting lynched.

Was this the purpose of your plan?

[Espressojet]

If this is what you guys want to do, go ahead.

[Espressojet]

Espresso is a ZZZX alt.

Lol. Leave ZZZX alone

I'll let Maru and Xay decide. If they want to cross vote then I'll vote for one of them, but not following through with this since I strong armed everybody into follow my reads would make me a bit of an asshole

"I don't want to be responsible for hammering"

[Espressojet]

Scumsala would know this and not do it.

WIFOM everywhere.

[Espressojet]

Meta as a defense?

Tsk tsk.

[Espressojet]

^That's a good question actually.

[Espressojet]

Why are you being so defensive?

[Espressojet]

Were you? I was under the impression that I was gonna be strung up...

[Espressojet]

This is going to sound scummy, but I don't care, I just need to say it.

I have no fucking clue which one of you guys is scum. I was placing all my eggs in one basket with Dr Pants.

Naturally, I'm suspicious of Sal, but at the same time I wonder if I'm in the all town group. I feel like Naz and/or not_mafia feel the same.

And yet, if Sal got lynched and flipped scum, I would die instantly...

[Espressojet]

And then I would get night killed instantly because I would be the only confirmed town.

We didn't put ourselves off to a great start. If we mislynch today town will lose.

[Espressojet]

We are running out of time. Im gambling that we are the town slot and Espresso isnt a dumbass,

VOTE: Xay

What? We're not running out of time at all, and why are you taking a gamble right now? There's 2 scum and 3 town, if we lynch wrong we lose!

[Espressojet]

Or you could be scum

[Espressojet]

I voted you.

Not today though. All it takes is two scum to insta-vote for this game to end.

[Espressojet]

I'm convinced.

VOTE: Xay

[Espressojet]

L-1

[Espressojet]

I don't know what you mean by the ZZZX bit.

But if you are scum, Good play yourself, because you just earned a townread in my eyes, which means to me that we're the all town group, which then means that both other groups have scum. Thusly, I should lynch the one group of which I am sure I will lynch correctly in.

[Espressojet]

I'm actually torn there.

If someone hammers and you die, what's your read?

[Espressojet]

Probably NM actually...

[Espressojet]

Unless they pull some WIFOM shit tomorrow

[Espressojet]

Why? It's not like he can claim.

[Espressojet]

What's up, Sal?

[Espressojet]

I'm not sure why I died, I still think I looked scummier than Sal...

[Espressojet]

I checked the scum thread... Curse you two.

[Espressojet]

<Curse accepting costs 38.47 US dollars each>