Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Ceasar, im appealing to your practical nature here of hunting multiple criminals at once. If you want to keep persuing me, be my guest - but at the same time i ask you not to ignore the points im bringing forward.In post 6445, Vecna wrote:Id like ceasars thoughts about the likelyhood of me and abr both being criminals, seeing how his new decree is one i am greatly pleased with.
As for your changing your mind due to my replace out; Just know that id rather eat rope than stoop to such low tactics as scum. The only reason I'm still here is because i was asked to reconsider and agree with certain posters that I should finish what i started, especially given my contribution to the thread size.
Please discuss the likelyhood of widely townread vekna putting his life on the line to openly challenge criminal abr to a duel.
Also id like your attention for the inconsistencies i have discovered regarding senator a&n. Certainly it must look suspicious to you as well that he went from townreading me and sheeping my opinions to voting me when my lynch seemed imminent. Notice the excuse of a reads reset afterwards while called out on these glaring inconsistencies. Do you feel these motives are pure?-
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Vecna Survivor
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It either tells us you have no defense or that youre ok with us wasting our energy barking up the wrong tree. Neither of these are pro-town behaviour.In post 6480, Akane and Nebby wrote:If I wanted to I would have by now.
What does this tell you about my alignment and why?
-Nebby-
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Vecna Survivor
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Hoping to get some replies from ceasar and a&n here.
How do you feel about the points i raised against the hydra nero? Take into consideration a&n has sheeped me into voting abr rather often, never questioning my intentions - and is now doing something very opposite to that.
A&N why a read reset? What do you hope to accomplish, besides obviously justifying trying to get me lynched?-
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Vecna Survivor
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Ok nero:
Abr lurks, care free. Untill titus sets him off indicati g she wants to lynch him. Then he suddenly becomes hyper active.
Abr townreads me. As soon as i target him, he claims that frogger has a case on me and sheeps him. He hides behind frogger to justify his vote.
He openly tried to destroy titus little townblock. Both by playing the two hydraheads against eachother and by trying to appeal to every member of the townblock to start voting at random other places.
The next day, he continues to use frogger as an excuse to hide behind for his reason to vote me. He repeatedly misframes what happened abd doesnt ever own up to his own reasons for voting me. He completely whiffs on explaining why he scumreads me and only refers to "froggers case" - note frogger only voted me very briefly because of my switching around between abr and beeboy.
New argument: notice all the strange inconsistencies and the relation with the a&n slot. The endgaming comment, then followed by a scumread. He keeps pushing on this slot without reason provided. My suspicion is he is trying to bus his partner to get me off his back. A&N trying to get me into hammerrange also makes me think this is more likely. There is somethibg going on here and im certain theres at least 1 scum in these teo, but possibly even 2.
Its really hard to reexplain the gentle nature of the manipulation that took place, but abr came in abd sowed chaos and succesfully turned people against eachother.-
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Vecna Survivor
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In post 6379, PeregrineV wrote:
To make it easier to find later.In post 6250, Vecna wrote:In post 4040, Vecna wrote:
The wagon was heading towards Beeboy. Ive indicated willingness to vote this slot (and I shall if ABR fails) - BUT I feel we have a way way stronger likelyhood of getting scum by lynching ABR.In post 4025, davesaz wrote:My son had an orchestra concert and we went out to dinner after -- and I fell asleep at the computer after getting home. 8 hours and ~15-20 pages later...
New thing to research -- what was the VC when Vecna went nuts? Was there an apparently unstoppable wagon build in progress that disagreed with what Vecna had been pushing before that point? That would be the only possible scum motivation, and a heck of a gamble if scum. I can see town doing it for a very good reason, which I won't go into yet...
My ABR townread is rescinded. What initially looked like righteous indignation at a vendetta now reeks of trying to shake loose of being caught for the wrong reason. The timing (just as a L-1 was reached and a town replacement appeared) and trajectory (saying practically nothing of value before that) does not look town at all.
I continue to think Creature could be scum trying to act town, but it might just be a playstyle thing. I'm willing to listen to townreads for now.
UNVOTE:
pedit: sleep it off please. I don't mean that to be preachy or anything, just worried that clouded mind -> actions you'll regret later.
I know people dont like to be forced to vote a certain way, or be forced to think about a certain issue - But I fell it had to happen.
And anyone that thinks im scum for it; riddle me this (especially MariaR and Gerry) - Would I ever out myself as scum just to save a teammate? Would I ever put my ass on the line as scum for anyone? Or is my ego too big and do I think if anyone's going to win it for a scumteam it would be scumvecna? Or would I rather happily bus them instead to further my own goals?
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ABR has been lurking with only random comments untill last night. UNTILL TITUS KEPT CALLING OUT THAT SHE WANTS ABR LYNCHED.
Then within a short timeframe:
- the slot pretends to want to be replaced
-starts attacking Titus (which I know from personal experience is the easiest way to turn off her rational side and start a pissing contest that is BAD for town)
-starts appealing to everyone in Titus' townblock and influence their vote
-Notices people are getting suspicion so wants to push for Beeboy.
-After I throw down the gauntless, he uses FROGGER's assumption that im scum to agree to a bandwagon - directly trying to divert blame to frogger because he knows ill flip town
-Lies about me not being his townread just before
-Doesnt think about any town-sided reasoning for what im doing, but just claims to sheep Frogger
-Then realizes even if he wins the 1v1 with me, he'll die tomorrow
-Switches back to Beeboy
This is manipulative. There is ZERO townreasoning I can think of for any of this (if im wrong, please -do- enlighten me.
Maybe I shouldve approached this in a different way, but ive noticed several times before in the posting frenzy that 50% of the posts get ignored. Ive literally asked 15-20 questions last night that went unanswered. This was the way to bring attention to my issue.
Math, I directly appeal to you as well. You know that the best way to derail Titus is by personal attacks and by discrediting her work/reads/results. She just goes off on you, and all town will be "silly TvT battle". Ive done it before, its super effective as scum.
ABR - NEEDS - ROPE-
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Vecna Survivor
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Oh really? Because you also stated it is scum theatrics in your recent 180 turn around. So if you really do believe this, you wouldnt mind voting it.In post 6500, Akane and Nebby wrote:
Oh I am so tired of you playing this card.In post 6498, Vecna wrote:So why your hesitation to help me bus my partner? Get on with it already
-Nebby
But its good to see you dont actually believe it and are just full of it.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Funny how this also only came up after your failed attempt to get me lynched.In post 6517, Akane and Nebby wrote:
No I hate it because I feel like it's scum WIFOMIn post 6516, Vecna wrote:
Oh really? Because you also stated it is scum theatrics in your recent 180 turn around. So if you really do believe this, you wouldnt mind voting it.In post 6500, Akane and Nebby wrote:
Oh I am so tired of you playing this card.In post 6498, Vecna wrote:So why your hesitation to help me bus my partner? Get on with it already
-Nebby
But its good to see you dont actually believe it and are just full of it.
-Nebby-
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Vecna Survivor
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Excellent.In post 6519, Pine wrote:Senator Mathblade, We concur with your assessment that proceeding with the conviction of the criminal Rampage this session is likely the most prudent and productive course of action. We shall not, however, move on this state of affairs until the former Senator returns from his travels abroad. It is contrary to the Senate's rules of conduct to prosecute the accusedin absentiawhen it can be avoided. As patron of Rome, We owe Our primary allegiance to Jupiter above, but We also venerate Lady Iustitia, She of Justice and Law. Senate rules oblige Us to hear the accused Rampage's defense before proceeding to execution.
Rest assured, Senators Mathblade and nancy, We shall join thee in prosecuting the traitor upon his return.
In the meanwhile id like to hear your throught process, where you were townreading ABR day1, even after my attack on him - but now youre suddenly scum reading him, but thinking that im bussing him.
How did these two different streams of thoughts find their way combined?
Because this does not seem like a logical train of thought and I do not see how the order of your reads forming realistically made you draw a town conclusion in the way that you have.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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I stand corrected and apologize for my mistake, it appears the length and quantity of conversation within the senate has started impeding my memory. At least I can continue to be pleased with your observations on most other people. However I still fail to see how you think it reasonable to assume that I am allied to the barbarian named as rampage.In post 6527, Caesar Wills It wrote:Traitor Vecna, seek not to tarnish Our name with your lies and falsehoods! We find your dishonesty most treacherous and vile.
As the Senate record will show, We did in fact condemn then-Senator Rampage in the Senate's first session. Further, the records provided by the Exchequer will demonstrate that not once have We expressed a surety of the criminal Rampage's loyalty. Rather, We have found him suspicious from Our first mention of him.
We challenge the heathen Vecna to demonstrate evidence to the contrary, and to produce the scrolls upon which We allegedly vouched for Senator Rampage's good intents.
Time will show the truth, lets just hope that the actual barbarians havent already managed to pillage rome when this comes to pass.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Im just going to continue taking note that the drixx/brian skies slot hasnt done anything at all all game (cannot really blame brian for it).
Im also still surprised theres so many people townreading that slot, some even amongst their top townreads - the slot has literally done nothing all game except claim it wants the tree-stump and then conveniently not getting it. I wouldnt be surprised at all if the slot is scum and never attempted to build it - and we now have no tree stump.
Suspicion shall remain on anyone that strongly townreads this slot.
The strongest suspicion this once again brings is on the A&N slot. Claiming to have reset their reads, yet townreading elbirn and Brian skies amongst their top reads while these two have literally done nothing (elbirn is even getting prodded) since the so called reset.
A&N has been a misread to a great many people and their recent actions show their true nature.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Leon, you say you continue to TR A&N - dont you find their recent behaviour very strange?
-Townreading me all game, when im close to a hammer they suddenly vote me with no explenation
-When questioned about it, they claim its because they reset all their reads
-In their new reads im suddenly scum, but brian skies and Elbirn who did nothing in this period are their strongest townreads now.
-When asked to explain any of this they flat-out refuse, using some weakass wifom too scum-to-be-scum type of answer and asking whether we really feel scum would do this the way they did.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Just went on a full reread of A&N's iso.
He did have a lot of different thoughts regarding the me vs ABR 1v1, and has questioned people before whether they thought if it was theatre.
Im surprised he didnt just refer back to this, as opposed to using a read reset to justify any of it.
At any rate, I can see both strong town or scum motivations in his actions.
Bottomline: read realigned to slightly below null/scummy - Suspicion will remain, my eye is on the slot.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Maybe you should compare my play here to my wisdom tunnel in Deathnote.
I aint making that mistake on my strong reads again.-
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Vecna Survivor
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People's way of reasoning around my allignment is usually a decent way for me to asses their level of honesty/sensibilityIn post 6608, Nero Cain wrote:
Maybe.In post 6606, Vecna wrote:Maybe you should compare my play here to my wisdom tunnel in Deathnote.
But I'm not even voting you so why so concerned about my vote?-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Like this post is such bullshit its unreal.In post 6631, Sondam wrote:Haven't read ABR at all, but creature is scum. I'll read him tomorrow i guess
Theres this major 1v1 wagon building up, but you decide to read all of creature's drivel instead of the main wagoned target to form an opinion on the slot?
Scumvibes galore.-
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Vecna Survivor
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In post 6633, davesaz wrote:Not Voting (3):PeregrineV, Elbirn, Akane and Nebby
I had to go a long way back in PeregrineV's ISO to find a read of any kind, and it's basically a "willing to lynch" list. What's up with that?
Any special reason you don't make it a real L-1 vote?
In post 6634, davesaz wrote:Elbirn doesn't have much in the way of reads either. Sure, moving and didn't have internet, prod dodge and all that, but what about before the move?
Also quite sure I never saw Davesaz make any of these type of posts as town in the 2 games I played with him.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Being sure of yourself doesnt equal conf-scumIn post 6649, MathBlade wrote:
What happened to ABR!Conf!scum?In post 6645, Vecna wrote:I want to see this flip before im going to interpret anything. Whether its a town or a scum flip there is so much distancing going on with this wagon-
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Vecna Survivor
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This does not hold with my two recent games with him at all, upon which my statements are based. One of which ended yesterday.In post 6651, MathBlade wrote:
Dave is improving. He's town. He explicitly didn't make posts like that in Gistou and before then. I have him as hard town.In post 6647, Vecna wrote:In post 6633, davesaz wrote:Not Voting (3):PeregrineV, Elbirn, Akane and Nebby
I had to go a long way back in PeregrineV's ISO to find a read of any kind, and it's basically a "willing to lynch" list. What's up with that?
Any special reason you don't make it a real L-1 vote?
In post 6634, davesaz wrote:Elbirn doesn't have much in the way of reads either. Sure, moving and didn't have internet, prod dodge and all that, but what about before the move?
Also quite sure I never saw Davesaz make any of these type of posts as town in the 2 games I played with him.
Also, why you defending the slot? Let me prod it please.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna
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Vecna
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Vecna Survivor
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So Nero, ive gone through your iso, and you were attacking quite a bunch of people scumreading ABR.
Youre no longer doing so.
What is your current opinion on ABR?
Why arent you either voting us, or trying to convince people that a different wagon is better?
Youre really appearing to try and stay super-neutral on this subject today.-
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Vecna
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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this, besides you thinking you were going to be the nightkill after that day1......In post 6691, davesaz wrote:I don't think that changes anything. Scum would gladly pick that to avoid getting vigged, plus they have the bonus of being able to be guaranteed a vig shot gets redirected to someone not on their team.
I really mostly just see scum motivation in picking that wonder.
Also saying scum cant kill you....they only cant if they think you'd redirect onto one of them.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Except were not going to waste a vig and mathblade's life and that wonder just to confirm what we allready know; that youre scum.In post 6696, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Mathblade has an ability that can confirm me as town, and then we have guaranteed town surviving NKs which is scum's nightmare.In post 6691, davesaz wrote:I don't think that changes anything. Scum would gladly pick that to avoid getting vigged, plus they have the bonus of being able to be guaranteed a vig shot gets redirected to someone not on their team.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Yeah yeah, not gonna have this dissolve into another one of your episodes. Youre the lynch, your fake/scumclaim isnt gonna wriggle you out from under it again.
You were away for a long time, admittedly with wifi where you were still reading up.
People tried to stretch it for you to come back untill we lynched you. Then they tried to stretch it so you could fakeclaim.
If you really did have that artifact, you wouldve claimed while you came back and noticed that you were at risk of dying, not go sleep another night on it.
Were going to lynch you, and then were gonna have a nice little investigation into those people that tried to buy you breathing space so you could try and wriggle out of the noose.-
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Btw Elbirn, im not answering your question yet for a reason as I want to confirm my suspicions without altering the behaviour of the slot. Im not solid enough on the read yet to completely let go of any suspicion after reading through their iso searching back for the posts in question.
Maybe at a later time, allthough I think if you read the line of posts that I indicated you'll probably understand.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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really hoping theres 2 docs in play by now.In post 6970, Leonshade wrote:
There's a doc in play, so I'm not ruling out the possibility of a vig shot yet. Though with so many players a correct doc is much less likely.In post 6957, Creature wrote:Vigilante refrained from shooting.
Let's see if he'll use it or if he's a scum vigilante keeping his shot to endgame us.
Town vig saving the shot seems unlikely, unless they want to put the shot to a vote or whatever.
I also find it rather.....peculiar that scum just happen to hit the treestump straight away like that. I dont want to believe they would sac one of their own, but we cannot completely discount it.
Also, woops (ABR)-
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There may be some hydra dissonance in the mix, or weird OP-vig distortion in the game im referring to, but I still feel he plays very different from how he played in Code Geass as town.In post 6971, Leonshade wrote:
Read this game if you scumread Ali, he's not confident enough in his scumgame to play like he has here.In post 6951, Leonshade wrote:viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70313
My recently finished scum game with Alisae, it's the real reason I've been townreading them. Their play here is not their scum play.-
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Vecna Survivor
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hmmmmIn post 6981, Maxous wrote:Scum killed the towniest player not on the ABR wagon.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Anyways I guess this resolution is another overwhelmingly obvious NAY seeing how we havent managed to murder scum.
If there were 5 starting scum, they go from 5 potential wonder uses to 8.
If there were 4 starting scum, they go from 4 potential wonde uses to 6
If there were 4 and they just killed their own treestump, they go from 3 wonder uses to 4.
And this doesnt even take into account they will get to deny more wonders to town, AND they can just load up defensive passives on the guy using their factional kill.
VOTE: NAY
I doubt anyone is gonna argue the point that this is a pretty boring resolution with no town upside at all.
Seeing how we've only had 1 death / night as well, means there isnt a multi-ball variation in play here where both teams can nightkill (unless they alternate nights). Either way, from a town POV even 2 small scumteams wouldnt change a thing to the outcome of this resolution.-
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Vecna Survivor
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