~laundry~ FIN

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:29 am

In post 4163, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Off gameplay than his usual towngame + flailing super hard under wagon pressure + his wagon kept being detailed with different wagons instead of being super easy mislynch for scum to pile on if town + highly suspicious watcher claim

I don't remember Creature looking SUPER TOWN early game except one game way back when he was new, so not significant to me.
I don't care about flailing, stupid tell.
I don't care about what other wagons did; most wagonomics assume that scum can magically create wagons to defend their partners and typically raise wagons out of nothing to defend useless partners so nope still not a great case.
And "highly suspicious watcher claim"? What was highly suspicious about it?

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:39 am

SlySly's reaction to pressure has looked extraordinarily town:

In post 2384, SlySly wrote:
In post 2363, Andrius wrote:I am of the opinion that Sly's making this all up but people apparently believe that crap..
Are you serious?

Vote me.

In post 2404, SlySly wrote:
In post 2392, Andrius wrote:The only thing I don't buy is the claim. I think someone who gets a double-vote after two days is incredibly weak.
If I was going to fake claim, it sure wouldn't be double voter.

When I'm town, integrity means everything. As you know, I'll forego my own personal wincon to fight with the town.

In post 2411, SlySly wrote:
In post 2403, Pine wrote:Andrius and Sly. Back on Creature.
I'm not gone far. Andrius calling bs on my claims has me all out of sorts.

Don't think that Sly as scum goes so brutally for the guilt trip here when Andrius says that he might be faking his claim but is still reading him as town; it's possible that it's something he just feels strongly about and would push back on as either alignment but I don't think that it would unfold quite this way if he were scum (in particular, don't think he talks about that last post as scum).

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:44 am

In post 4168, MariaR wrote:unless scum saw frogs weak cop claim and killed him

so unless scum saw that frogger claimed cop, i'm scum?

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:44 am

you're absolutely right, it makes no sense to do anything but lynch me today

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:48 am

In post 4172, MariaR wrote:The fact none of the masons died is what shocks me (don't tell me it's so scum could try to frame them I'll laugh in your face)

killing a cop over a mason seems like a no brainer to me

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:51 am

In post 3692, Fro99er wrote:I am cop and I have one modifier I can't say yet (I crumbed that earlier). I am "My Eyes"

except for the people who read his posts >.>

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:58 am

With Sly I don't believe that any of the interactions with Andrius are anything but town, actually; I don't think that his claim was scummy (and desperado self-voting doesn't work to activate his ability if we're lynching scum so not sure what that line of thought was), I think that the way he got frustrated when people was lynching him and launched into full "fuck you" mode looked town and he is again one of the pushes that I don't understand at all.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:03 am

{Desperado, SAD, SlySly, Toogeloo, Tammy, Andrius} - is my lock town group in a 15p game
I believe that Firebringer is very likely to be town; his play here looks mor e like Fire Assassin in the Thing play than I've seen him play elsewhere and again don't think that he's capable of faking this as town. Maria would be an additional townread; everyone else I'd be comfortable killing.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:24 am

Drealmer I wouldn't be comfortable killing if not for his interactions with Gerry today; can't see any world where town!Drealmer doesn't go berserk on
Zach and Nos look better if Gerry is scum based on their interactions with him; Zach I can't see sticking his neck out that far as a gerry scum partner even if they are bros and Nos shading masons but giving a pass to Gerry is the type of thing I think he would avoid if he were scum with Gerry.

Pine's big push on Creature for nonsense reasons was fake, and his reasons for suspecting me are garbage. I hate how yesterday he was all in on me being scum and today he's talking about how if I'm town he's transferring his suspicion of me Desperado (who yesterday he was defending pretty consistently). I hate how he's shaded Sly, Andrius, Tammy this game; I hate how he calls me "two-faced" on Creature when I was nowhere near that and 100% on the defending Creature train, I hate how he avoided giving actual reasons for Creature lynch even when pressed, I hate how he's pushing Gerry into the "supatown" category just because he was a counterwagon.

Gerry lied in order to push a wagon on him, then, when people started voting him, talked about how fucking stupid everyone was for voting him for his claim and talked about how everyone was lynching him for his attitude even though people were pushing him for his claim. He also pushed Creature and called Creature confirmed "mafia goon" because two of his lines seem super duper F O R C E D.

McMenno replaced Aeronaut who had very lame and underwhelming play before replacing out which is pretty much Aeronaut!scum as I remember him. McMenno himself did nothing but push the "beetlejuicing" case on Creature and then power lurk to the end; he didn't so much as blink when Creature claimed watcher which to me screams bus.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:43 am

In post 4185, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Wait am I seriously supposed to believe some people didn't read the cop claim?

yes

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:10 am

In post 4193, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4192, MariaR wrote:Fire become obv town again so I can protect you like the cute puppy you are
I'd love to see similarities between me and thing right now.

you're pushing obvious town for bad reasons

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:12 am

In post 4198, drealmerz7 wrote:nacho, just because someone is obvious town to you, doesn't mean they are to them, and pushing can be a healthy way to generate a read

what is your issue?

i've explained my issue with you already
i don't think fire's pushing to generate a read; fire has held these reads for quite a while and there's not really a chance that he's changing them until bodies start dropping

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:27 am

In post 4202, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4197, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 4193, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4192, MariaR wrote:Fire become obv town again so I can protect you like the cute puppy you are
I'd love to see similarities between me and thing right now.
you're pushing obvious town for bad reasons
lol, sure.

you are obv town.

referring more to your Desperado vote as far as "obvious town" goes
as for your push on me yes it is horrendous and yes you are pushing town.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:29 am

and yes, you as scum would be afraid to push me in a game unless i was your scum partner, regardless of whether vague suspicion was floating around me or not.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:35 am

In post 4206, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4205, Nachomamma8 wrote:and yes, you as scum would be afraid to push me in a game unless i was your scum partner, regardless of whether vague suspicion was floating around me or not.
i call bullshit, I am not afraid to push anyone as scum.
stop pretending you know how i play.

ok

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:47 am

I've read bits and pieces of that game, not much.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:47 am

In post 4225, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4218, Andrius wrote:You mean to tell me you read THE THING?
no, he didn't read the thing.
He is making shit up.

You're tunneling.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:53 am

oh yes, the classic "discredit by telling the truth"

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:54 am

In post 4229, Firebringer wrote:Theres like 4 people who were in the THING in this game.
And nacho the one claiming to read the game but not play it is saying I am playing like that game, but none of the players in the game are saying that.

Yep, sure.
Totally legit.

i see similarities in your paranoid pushes there and your paranoid pushes here
me being the only one who expresses it doesn't really mean that i'm not correct and it doesn't really mean that i'm scum

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:55 am

In post 4240, gerryoat wrote:Ok Andrius goes into the lynch pool, he was fishing claims with the vig stuff

ANDRIUS LYING = SCUM PLEASE LYNCH

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:57 am

In post 4218, Andrius wrote:I never planned on doing anything with it.
Its there in the incredible off-chance this is
a) some super scum gambit
b) I'm not around to fight it

I see a very large problem in that most people right now are running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
I think that "Tammy and Toogeloo might be scum!" speculation is tilting at windmills at this point in time and I don't think that it's a productive move to make.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:58 am

In post 4244, Firebringer wrote:
In post 4239, Nachomamma8 wrote:oh yes, the classic "discredit by telling the truth"
but if its used for every argument when its not related to that its a distraction and a fallacious argument, so yes it can be "True" but that doesn't make it relevant to every argument.

You are usually pro logic in mafia games.

he was accusing you of missing context completely
I think you not really reading the game is fairly relevant

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:02 am

In post 4251, gerryoat wrote:Desperado. You lost all town credit yesterday, doesn't matter how big you post

for not identifying Creature's posts as FORCED and TERRIBLE as you so quickly and efficiently did?
do you really think that bus is going to carry you and Pine to the finish line?

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:07 am

In post 4256, Andrius wrote:
In post 4247, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 4218, Andrius wrote:I never planned on doing anything with it.
Its there in the incredible off-chance this is
a) some super scum gambit
b) I'm not around to fight it
I see a very large problem in that most people right now are running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
I think that "Tammy and Toogeloo might be scum!" speculation is tilting at windmills at this point in time and I don't think that it's a productive move to make.
I don't see anyone making a move.
SAD and I have voiced concerns which are valid.
Were you in the hydra with me when Fate and RBT faked Masons as scum? Or was that Gandalf?

Yes, if someone actually advocates for the lynch of a mason today they should be censured and/or die.
But no one's making that move and I don't think scum's stupid enough to make that move especially after the Creature death D1.

I wasn't with you, but I read the game.
These two situations are quite different but you're right that this isn't particularly important right now.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:09 am

Still remarkably confident that there are 0 scum in the group I pointed out earlier + Maria, Firebringer.
Please begin extermination.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:09 am

In post 4263, gerryoat wrote:he was so obvious a 2 year old coulda picked him out as scum.

and nacho you really think im maf still lmfao. i think you're trying to play the "STUBBORN TOWN!!!!" card and no it wont work.

you're horrible for even considering me scum i'm so obviously STUBBORN TOWN please never play again

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:10 am

desperado is town.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:12 am

Vote: Pine

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:13 am

she looks remarkably different there but a game where she was bored and replaced out is probably an unusual town game in general

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:22 am

In post 4293, gerryoat wrote:Pine is town. Vote nacho

VOTE: Nacho

good vote.
when i flip town, lynch Pine.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:22 am

In post 4292, Desperado wrote:yes but now you're saying you don't care if i scumread you

which is obviously a lie

you care very, very much

i think this is an extraordinarily common lie that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with alignment

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:24 am

maria why do you think desperado is scum?

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:27 am

In post 4249, Desperado wrote:
Firebringer has 10% of the fucking posts in this game
by himself
and is using the size of game to excuse him not reading.

uses this as evidence to show that firebringer complaining about game size is disingenuous
don't think this point is unreasonable, don't think it's throwing shade for the sake of throwing shade

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:30 am

In post 3910, Desperado wrote:Also if Gerry is scum Sad and Zach are both town and Andrius suggesting otherwise his hilarious. Scum aren't touching scum Gerry with a forty foot pole

good point here

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:30 am

In post 3910, Desperado wrote:Also if Gerry is scum Sad and Zach are both town and Andrius suggesting otherwise his hilarious. Scum aren't touching scum Gerry with a forty foot pole

good point here

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:32 am

In post 4301, MariaR wrote:Pedit: The only one who needs a fucking mentor rn is you

^^^^^^^^^

if you are town gerry then you've continued to lie for no reason, managed to out masons in the process, and very likely are suspecting three townies in Me/Maria/Desperado and letting Pine wreck you for absolutely no reason

you can't blame everything on the townies you're trying to mislynch, sorry.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:32 am

In post 4306, Firebringer wrote:So what do you take this to mean?

that you're complaining about the size of the game for no good reason
this isn't something that surprises me overly much

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:34 am

In post 3728, Desperado wrote:
In post 1644, gerryoat wrote:I hardclaim PR. But I won't claim which. I'm confirmed town to someone here, even if they don't know it yet. I know that sounds confusing, but it's true lol

In post 1681, gerryoat wrote:
In post 1657, Toogeloo wrote:gerry, without going too much into specifics, how exactly can one person here confirm you as town?
nice fish, but it really doesnt matter. One person will know I'm town, just like I know one person is town. Just dont know who they are yet

In post 1780, gerryoat wrote:
In post 1775, Tammy wrote:
In post 1772, gerryoat wrote:
In post 1770, Tammy wrote:The last time someone tried to claim that they were confirmed town but refused to explain they were scum.
who said i was confirmed town? i simply gave my reason why I am PR and why i am claiming

Explain your pr. You said you were confirmed town to someone, who? How are you supposed to find them? How are they to find you?
i'll find them eventually. if i knew who i wouldn't have said i needed to find them. now you're posts sound dumb

In post 1813, gerryoat wrote:ftr its my flavor and my role that work together. which is why i'll be confirmed town to someone.

In post 3144, gerryoat wrote:also i'm not sure when i will be confirmed town to someone here. could take awhile. it's not automatic
1657

good point here wrt the nonsense pieces of gerry's fakeclaim

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:35 am

In post 4310, gerryoat wrote:Maria why won't you vote nacho

And I'm not lying about my role. Masons outed cause of YOU GUYS speculating avout my role

masons outed because your role doesn't exist with theirs
which, if you're lying about your role, is definitely your fault

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:37 am

In post 4317, MariaR wrote:I honestly may just be wanting to bias lynch Desp because he's slowly pissing me off the more the game goes on but I think Pine is the scum in those 2 I'll have to look at others though.

i don't think that he's been just throwing shade, i think that the game is frustrating the hell out of him which is something that's pretty understandable IMO

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:42 am

In post 4321, MariaR wrote:Pedit: What to you makes it town frustration to scum?

if he's scum then 1) I don't think that he's as frustrated that it's an absolute shit show, and 2) I don't think he throws himself in the middle of it quite so frequently.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:46 am

and, as a Christmas Day miracle among a carnival of lunacy otherwise, I've underestimated firebringer.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:52 am

In post 4346, Firebringer wrote:go fuck yourself

Didn't mean for it to come across as harshly as it did.
Wasn't expecting the tunnel on Desperado to stall, stutter, or hesitate.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:56 am

In post 4349, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
In post 4269, Nachomamma8 wrote:desperado is town.
I mean so was creature

Oh wait.

Ah, right, disagreeing with the reasons Creature was being lynched makes me an absolutely shit player incapable of making any accurate townreads at all.
Good to know.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:04 am

Then vote me and free me from this game, and I'll pray that my mislynch will give you clarity of mind.

Alternatively, explain why our pushes on Gerry make us 99% scum.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:08 am

In post 4367, gerryoat wrote:
In post 4357, MariaR wrote:You'll never admit when you're in the wrong will you Gerry you'll call someone bad or say it's their fault alrighty
I will admit when I'm wrong. I haven't been wrong yet lol.

"if desperado and nacho are both town they need some mentoring"
you're right, it sounds like you're setting yourself up to eat a nice piece of humble pie when we flip.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:14 am

In post 4375, Firebringer wrote:just replace out then tammy.

tammy, please don't leave me here.
please.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:26 am

In post 4385, Tammy wrote:My uncertainties on Nacho stem from not recognizing the meta argument against Creature and not acknowledging some of Gerry's flail that looked kinda townish. The argument against Creature was based on some meta that he acted differently when town, but that wasn't acknowledged, so I wanted to look into that more. His push against Gerry was pretty strong and I wasn't sure if it was him being stubborn against someone who made a claim that was most likely complete bullshit and that made him scum when some of his antics looked kinda town. But Nacho can be stubborn sometimes as town too, so that's something I wanted to talk a little bit more about with him to get a feel for where his head is at.

i didn't think that the beetlejuicing thing applied when he was around and posting plenty when i was also in thread; from my skimming of Creature games elsewhere I didn't see a definite comparison to his scum games and his play here and I didn't think that he was far off from his town game here at all.

gerry's not just a "noob"; he doesn't play like a noob and he sure as shit doesn't play like someone without any experience. there are some things that he's said that have thrown me off a bit (hence why Pine is far and above #1), but I don't think that town!gerry goes as far as he did with the lie and the frustration surrounding it yesterday (in particular the calling people shit players for pushing on him despite the claim and then just lying about the claim), I don't see him telling the truth about the claim, and I don't want there to be any worlds where he is scum and manages to live until the end of this game because fuck that.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:32 am

that makes sense.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:41 am

In post 4415, Firebringer wrote:ummm distancing is when you are pushing a buddy but not hoping for their lynch.
bussing is when you are aiming for your scum partner lynched to get towncred.

Maybe this is just a semantic argument, but w/e.
I don't think that was simple distancing.

I'm confused. I don't think you're quite comprehending Desp's point.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:42 am

If you're voting a partner, which situation is preferable?

1) Town lynch a townie while you're bussing the shit out of your partner.
2) Town lynch your partner while you're bussing the shit out of your partner.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:03 am

In post 4440, MariaR wrote:I'm just gonna walk away before I sub out

Please don't leave me here just because Gerry's a jackass

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:05 am

I have abandonment issues and I don't like when people I like leave.

Nachomamma8 · Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 pm

hey drealmer
wanna vote pine with me?

Nachomamma8 · Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:43 pm

also what is your read on Gerry?

Nachomamma8 · Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:46 pm

i think saying drealmer is lacking presence is not really true; he has a ton of posts per his usual and his EoD tunneling on gerry/sly was pretty typical drealmer from my perspective.

Nachomamma8 · Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:47 pm

and it's funny you say that he's lacking presence compared to mystic mafia because drealmer had an oddball push on me there and was remarkably underwhelming until sometime during Day... 2? he did a much better job of being around early here.

Nachomamma8 · Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:21 pm

In post 4565, Errantparabola wrote:innocent laundry appliances

For all of you still paranoid about mason claims, they just got confirmed as town.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:14 am

In post 4569, Zachstralkita wrote:
In post 4509, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Hello Zach.

Have you gained any scumreads over the course of like the entire game.
Yea Need to catch up tho

Who are you scumreading...?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:40 am

In post 4598, Tammy wrote:if you just ignored it because lalala you do that sometimes.

Because lalala I either missed it or forgot about it.
I'm not overly surprised that you're taking a while to sort through the read on me and I don't necessarily remember what weirded you out otherwise other than my early Gerry read, which I think that I laid out decently well; I figured he was obviously lying about his role based on what I laid out before (and while I'm having doubts there I still think it was compelling), and yes I'd probably make the push as scum because I'd go ballistic if that was a partner and I'd go ballistic if that was somehow town but I don't think that I've failed to recognize flashes where they exist (you said there was flail earlier that looked town to you - interested in what you thought specifically about it).

Nachomamma8 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:42 am

Pine is not something we should talk about right this instant; got things to do.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:56 am

In post 4592, Firebringer wrote:He felt contributory, he looked in some instances to be scum hunting, but something wasn't right.

This is certainly a good way to approach the read.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:56 am

In post 4603, Pine wrote:Nacho's read on me is defensive in nature.

It certainly is.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:27 pm

In post 4961, Tammy wrote:I'm concerned about the lack of town feeling vibe. I'm concerned about the feeling of being left hanging. I'm having a really hard time believing that we finally drew town together, something that hasn't happened in forever, and this is what I get.

This game hasn't been fun with me. I've been in a mindset where I don't think that this game will be fun for me unless I get ridiculously drunk during it, which is why I've secretly been hoping and praying that I get lynched so I'm released from the game. Typically you would be the one who could drag me out of the darkness, spray water on my face and bring me back to the groove because you have that tendency when you're a bright shining light but the game seems to be having the same effect on you to. At this point, I'm hoping I get dragged to death and make some beautiful inspirational posts and then say my goodbyes and put this game behind me and that's the best I can hope from this game.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:27 pm

In post 4961, Tammy wrote:I'm concerned about the lack of town feeling vibe. I'm concerned about the feeling of being left hanging. I'm having a really hard time believing that we finally drew town together, something that hasn't happened in forever, and this is what I get.

This game hasn't been fun with me. I've been in a mindset where I don't think that this game will be fun for me unless I get ridiculously drunk during it, which is why I've secretly been hoping and praying that I get lynched so I'm released from the game. Typically you would be the one who could drag me out of the darkness, spray water on my face and bring me back to the groove because you have that tendency when you're a bright shining light but the game seems to be having the same effect on you to. At this point, I'm hoping I get dragged to death and make some beautiful inspirational posts and then say my goodbyes and put this game behind me and that's the best I can hope from this game.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:35 pm

In post 298, Pine wrote:
In post 295, Andrius wrote:
In post 291, Pine wrote:Sorry Andy, Desperado isn't interesting anymore.

VOTE: SAD

New Strahd wagon.

PEdit: He might be, but right now he's the Baker Paladin, and I cleave to my man
"HE MIGHT BE"
PINE WHAT IS THIS CRAP
...I said "might"

In post 4680, Pine wrote:Andrius is still a special category.

This is Pine's interaction with Andrius for the entire game; it's constantly "I think Andrius could be scum, but I don't know". I don't think that this is a natural interaction have have with someone for day after day after day and I don't think that Pine would let it just persist and fester if he were town here. I think that his paranoia on Andrius is not nuanced to the degree that real paranoia typically is; his reasoning for feeling paranoid is "I don't typically bother buddying to this degree" which is absolutely crazy because if he had any familiarity with Andrius at all then he'd know that he buddies.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:38 pm

Oh, and as scum it's something I could see him holding in his back pocket for a long, long time; there's weird pockets of Andrius suspicion that haven't been addressed anywhere at all and when Andrius is pushed into paranoia mode he tends to make himself mislynchable (and whether or not he's aware of this isn't as important as the weird pockets thing).

Pedit: If he was worried about being killed, then 1) he shouldn't be because he's hated, 2) he wouldn't be claiming PR in additional to hated, 3) he would be more shy about the hard scumreads on players like Maria and I. I don't think that's the case.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:42 pm

I also think that his paranoia of "hard buddying" comes off as pretty disingenuous considering it's happening elsewhere (SlySly at least) and it's not like he hasn't seen me/Mastina buddy plenty in the past and he's not like he hasn't buddied at all in this game. I don't think that's the

one

sticking point stopping him from townreading his friend and I don't believe it's something that he wouldn't attempt to figure out in however long this game has been going on.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:49 pm

It's only going to get worse, Firebringer.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:51 pm

In post 2197, Pine wrote:Lurking, trolling, and bare-voting Creature needs rope. SlySly wagon is full of fail and opportunism.

STRAHDIANS, UNITE.

VOTE: Creature

This was his only significant scumread of all of Day 1; the closest he got to expressing a significant scumread somewhere else was "oh, Nacho could be scum as well". The only way that he pushed the Creature wagon beyond this was by asking random people to vote Creature and by calling Creature scum because the wagon didn't go through (I'm sure that his actual argument was better than that but I don't particularly feel like looking it up right now). I don't think that Pine as town lurks and floats in a game, throws a vote on scum, and then doesn't do anything with it all day. If he was town in this game and really had such a strong scumread on Creature, I think that he gets more frustrated when it doesn't go through and attempts to push the wagon through with more reasons, I think he defends Sly and Desperado when they start getting suspicion instead of just calling them towels and leaving it at that.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:55 pm

In post 5065, Firebringer wrote:I have the opposite feelings, but i kind of don't believe any of nacho "This game sucks so hard" posts.
I feel he is just leeching off Tammy hatred for the game.

It should be clear that I'm not having fun in this game to anyone and everyone who is reading my posts.
I'm lurking in this game and I'm avoiding this game and it's not because I'm having such a swell time.
It has nothing to do with my alignment but it's certainly not a lie.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:01 pm

If you read my posts when I've expressed why this game is not fun with me, you'd know why you hate this game. I'm not interested in rehashing it and I'm not interested in bringing the thread down more than I already am; lynch me, see my flip, take me at my word when I say I'm not having fun the next time.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:12 pm

In post 4076, Pine wrote:But this is quite true, too. If Nacho flips Town, my suspicion of him will transfer to Desperado. There was some shady shit at day's end, where the scumteam was super reluctant to bus Creature.

Desperado was one of two confident town reads that Pine had yesterday (other than Sly). When multiple people suspected Desperado yesterday, Pine intervened for him when he didn't intervene for anyone else. I don't think it's natural that he flipped on Desperado to this degree for his Creature wagon interactions (he didn't show doubt when it was happening, why would he suddenly feel weird about Desperado when suspicion is floating around him yet again and Gerry says "someone bussed"?). I don't think that it's at all natural for him to see exactly one scum in me/Desperado when his reasoning has nothing to do with our interactions and everything to do with the fact that we both voted near the tail end of the wagon (if he genuinely feels suspicious of Desperado for his end of wagon behavior, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to just include him in the lynch pool as opposed to saying that me/him are SvT).

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:27 pm

In post 5071, Firebringer wrote:
In post 5069, Nachomamma8 wrote:If you read my posts when I've expressed why this game is not fun with me, you'd know why you hate this game. I'm not interested in rehashing it and I'm not interested in bringing the thread down more than I already am; lynch me, see my flip, take me at my word when I say I'm not having fun the next time.
Nacho do this for me if you are town.

Read this post.
Do you think at any point during the game your mindset is going to change and you will be more actively involved?

If answer is no. Time to ask for replacement.

I don't think that my activity levels are "I should replace out" levels. I do hope that this game can get to a place where it's fun for me, but even in completely miserable games (Mystic Mafia), there are bright points. I'd feel immensely guilty if I asked Tammy to stay and then completely bailed on her (although yes, being as dark and depressing as I am this game won't change that although I hope to get somewhere different eventually).

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:34 pm

In post 5113, Firebringer wrote:Don't hate you at all or explicitly want to see you out of this game, but I definitely think your attitude if its still present in later days and you are town, scum will take advantage of and help them win the game.

I'm certainly not replacing out for strategic advantage because 1) that's horrible and 2) I'm fairly confident that's against site rules.
Attitude only cropped up because I thought Tammy was missing a part of my approach; the reason it's continuing is mostly because you're asking about it.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:44 pm

In post 5127, Tammy wrote:It's bugging me that you know exactly what I want from you, and you weren't doing it even before this game became a shitfest.

I'm here, I'm delivering, and I'm talking.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:49 pm

In post 5129, Tammy wrote:I do want you to talk to me about Pine because he was my dark horse scum read that I wanted to push yesterday before the crapfest sponsored by Gerry and his fake claim.

I think that most of Pine's reads are fake, shallow, and convenient. I don't really but that he didn't bus Creature because he "never busses", I think the fact that so many of his reads depend on the Creature flip imply that he bussed and I think that the "quiet, stubborn, but 100% confident" is setting up for cred in case Creature fails to survive Day 1, same as McMenno's approach.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:51 pm

In post 5138, Zachstralkita wrote:Why is the only reasonable scum case on me the lack of "town" things, which is a moot point anyway?

What is your Andrius case?

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:57 pm

if you were lynching andrius that would be a good rebuttal but as it stands you're just sort of whispering into the wind

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:58 pm

as you've been doing most of this game
only time you've shown life is when you're being pushed which is why most people would probably be okay with you being super dead

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:59 pm

oops!
why did Sly ping you?
what are your Pine and McMenno reads?

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:04 pm

I'm confused by your confusion.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:05 pm

First quote Zach talks about how people criticized him for pushing Sly yesterday.
Second quote is Zach talking about how he was scumreading Sly yesterday.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:12 pm

you're only alive when you're being pushed

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:20 pm

In post 5161, MariaR wrote:Tammy.
Make.
The.
Pine.
Wagon.
Real.
Again.
PLEASE.

she needs your vote to make that happen

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:23 pm

In post 5159, Tammy wrote:So he's hard town read Gerry who has fake claimed or not a role that the way he's claimed it does not seem compatible with masons, but he has no questions or no cares about that and he's actually fanning the flames of Gerry to try to discredit the masons.

this is a reason why i thought they could be scumpartners; the way he kept going "gee tammy seems town but i just don't know about this mason claim" but didn't blink at the gerry carnival.

what do you think of what I brought up on his Desperado/Andrius reads?

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:29 pm

zach what do you think of the pine related points that I've brought up?

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:30 pm

In post 5159, Tammy wrote:Anyway, Pine gives this really rudimentary "lesson" on scum bussing practices all about how scum don't behave which assumes that scum are automatons following some guidebook for bussing instead of actual real people. And his bussing information runs counter to what I've actually experienced. The people on the front of a wagon aren't the busers WHAT? Also waxing simply about scum behavior he actually has the nerve to offer up the possibility that we're fake claiming.

His "scum never ever would bus stubbornly and quietly" wrt McMenno bothers me because 1) McMenno's ISO is a dumpster fire and I don't believe Pine would townread him for voting Creature for the wrong reasons and then fucking off for the rest of the game and 2) Pine's vote on Creature was "stubborn and quiet" to a T, which is usually the optimal way to go about a bus that's planned as opposed to damage control; you don't

actually

increase the chances of your scum partner getting lynched by all that much but you get to say "I was there the whole time! I'm town!" after they're gone.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:35 pm

In post 5181, MariaR wrote:Why do you think I'm scum dreal I think you of all people should know this isn't my scumplay

maria i love you but i think i've heard that line before

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:38 pm

In post 5189, Zachstralkita wrote:but as far as i can recall he was straight-shooting to me day one. Maybe I wasn't paying a lot of attention, but I didn't have a scumread there.

please give me more than that and in return i'll give your scumreads heavy consideration

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:39 pm

In post 5186, MariaR wrote:
In post 5184, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 5181, MariaR wrote:Why do you think I'm scum dreal I think you of all people should know this isn't my scumplay
maria i love you but i think i've heard that line before

whines

whaaaat like half this playlist has played with me and should know I'm obv af town ;~:

right but when you say "you of all people" more than once then it doesn't really work anymore

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:47 pm

Tammy, I think Sly is town because I think that his push back during the Andrius exchanges was genuine as hell. I think that he was defending his friend who he thought was being treated unfairly, and I don't really think that he was doing it because he thought there was a chance of a mislynch going through (you weren't getting lynched at that stage, no reason for it to go through). I think that his reaction to being pushed instantly going to "fuck you guys, just lynch me" looks town. I think that his role in general looks town (get a reward if you're scumhunting well) and is odd for scum. I think some of his ridiculous pushes and his reading but not understanding is classic SlySly, but in particular things like very obviously cutting out the context isn't something scum do.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:48 pm

In post 5193, Zachstralkita wrote:
In post 5190, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 5189, Zachstralkita wrote:but as far as i can recall he was straight-shooting to me day one. Maybe I wasn't paying a lot of attention, but I didn't have a scumread there.
please give me more than that and in return i'll give your scumreads heavy consideration

Unvoting temporarily cause IDK if I'm tryna do that at this exact moment but I WILL do exactly that I just need the day to not end soon.

UNVOTE:

And on cue, we'll have Andrius saying I'm scum in 5...

I appreciate this.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:38 pm

In post 5203, Tammy wrote:I still feel like there's something missing nacho. :/

I'm still here to work through things if you have stuff you want to talk about with me.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:41 pm

I also still would like the feedback about Pine/Menno especially; if you have any concerns about Maria/Desperado/SAD/Andrius/Sly/Firebringer or any of the townreads I brought then let's talk about them. I do feel good about Pine/Menno although there's not really a third that feels great to me, and if there's not any scum in the townreads I gave before (which is entirely possible I think) it can equal a won game but before I get there I'd like for you to check my work and see where you feel I'm going wrong.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:52 am

In post 5215, SlySly wrote:
In post 5200, Nachomamma8 wrote:his reading but not understanding is classic SlySly
In this game,
1. MariaR has already pointed out that obtuse-Sly recently scum spotted her with relative ease in a game completed not long ago
2. Those that were Strahd participants just saw me stop a mislynch only to have Andrius convince me to return by tellung me my observations amounted to a "Hail Mary" when hindsight showed what I read and understood was 100% correct. I think what would be more accurate is it's classic for mafia gurus to call Sly an idiot because a) they are scum and he appears to be easy to lynch, low hanging fruit or 2) they aren't as guru as they think.

I didn't call you an idiot, I just said that you sometimes have the tendency to read things without understanding; you're certainly not the only one and you're not a bad player because you misinterpret something now and again. An example is when Desperado said that you could just self vote for two days to activate your role and you responded that you don't subscribe to cheap loopholes; your response was acceptable yeah but if you read a little more closely you would have realized that his loophole isn't a loophole at all. I don't think it's indicative of ill intent.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:08 am

In post 5254, Tammy wrote:You said you were considering replacing out because this game was a slog, which means that you were following along enough to know what was going on

What part of "this game is a slog" means that I'm following along everything that's going on? It does mean that I'm aware of some things and when I say that I abandoned you it does mean that I "whistled" by certain elements of the game because I didn't want to post because it wasn't fun to post and because every time I posted I was opening old wounds. I don't want to rehash the elements of the game that were a slog and weren't fun for me because they weren't fun for me; if you need me to go through them again postgame then I'm more than happy to do so with you on a one on one basis but I'm not doing it right now. I think that you should know why the game wasn't fun for me because a large reason why the game wasn't fun for me because it wasn't fun for you and it's no fun to see people that you love hurting.

In Final Fantasy, you were affronted that I didn't diffuse a minor kerfuffle but here you ignored everything as it mounted.

In Final Fantasy, I was a two-shot vig who crumbed heavily to you and shot your top suspect because I didn't really have any of my own. I was getting pressed for weird reasons and instead of defending me and backing me up when you had what I felt was very strong reasoning to do so, you got stuck on my Matty push. I was also in an incredibly strange mood at the time as I acknowledged during and after; I don't like you acting like that was normal behavior for me. It's not true that I ignored everything as it mounted; an overwhelming majority of my ISO Day 1 is addressing and responding and reacting to everything as it mounted. Again, there were points where I saw things that I'd have to respond to and put it off because it wasn't something I was willing to deal with; that's my bad and if you need to lynch me for it then go ahead. But I didn't ignore everything.

I'm having a hard time you just noped by all of that if we were town together. So, you saw slyly call me scum for saying I felt good about the game and felt like I was playing well. How that's scummy in any universe is beyond me especially from someone with a 2007 play date, but I digress. You saw Andy agree that it was a sign of scum and you never did comment. Everything was going crappy and you didn't join the game at all.

Here are my posts after that exchange you're talking about:

Spoiler:

I wasn't there. At the time that was a week that had been pretty heavily kicking my ass, and when I came back, I was more concerned with sorting through Andrius than I was with working through any of the many pages that I missed.

HOWEVER I can see you as scum just snickering about it all hoping that you'd be able to come in here and make some final push if it was going to go that way as you're always looking for a time to mislynch me when you're scum. So that's what I think you were doing. Not you ignored the game because we finally drew town together and it was a slog, you were ignoring it long before it became a slog. I think you were just seeing what you'd be able to do.

You know me a lot better than this.
If I was hurting in a game because I thought that someone who I thought was a friend actually hated my guts, I wouldn't expect you to be snickering and having a good time and you apparently believing the reverse to be true is ridiculous.

When we mislynched Snowstorm at Westeros, it was satisfying because it was my own play that looked

so town

that people were willing to put aside a guilty result on me to lynch someone else. When I mislynched Pieguyn in that newbie game, it was because we were both giving it everything that we had and I deflected her walls, used her own words against her, and got the town to turn against her. When I mislynch you, I'll be "snickering" because I will be at the forefront and I'll be putting in the work to getting you mislynched even though you never should have been mislynched in a million years, and this is something I shouldn't be telling you now because it's something you understand better than anyone.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:09 am

In post 5273, Tammy wrote:
In post 5184, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 5181, MariaR wrote:Why do you think I'm scum dreal I think you of all people should know this isn't my scumplay
maria i love you but i think i've heard that line before
Have you guys played together before?

that was a reference to her saying that once before in this game to gerry

Nachomamma8 · Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:06 am

In post 7310, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Sometimes townies need to get lynched for the game to progress correctly. I really do think some lynches are extremely pro-town regardless of lynching scum.

Disagree pretty strongly.
If people didn't agree with this then I would have been lynched for my read on Gerry and not because Fire faked a sick guilty on me.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:06 am

MCMENNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Nachomamma8 · Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:06 am

I'm sorry for not believing in you. You were right. I was completely wrong.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:24 am

Also that Toogeloo post is excellence

Nachomamma8 · Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:34 am

But really my MVP you played a great fucking game is Firebringer

Nachomamma8 · Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:17 am

Not yet!