SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[ZeL1nK2]

Like, I was alright with lynching Ankamius to allow FT to vigshoot because I thought Ankamius was scum.

People legitimately thought he was scum?

Whatever.

So far we've... what? Lynched Anamikus because he was oh-so-scummy and lynched Heartless because he was also oh-so-scummy.

How about you give me my preferred lynch for once instead of pushing your awful lynches.

If I'm wrong about TSO, I'm going to have to re-evaluate the game. I'd rather get that over with today with the bonus that it gives Ollie a vig shot regardless of TSO's alignment.

On the other hand, if you're wrong about TWIE, where does that get us? We're STUCK WITH TWIE HAUNTING US FOR THE REST OF THE GAME. WHY WOULD ANYONE WISH THAT ON ANYONE? HOW SADISTIC ARE YOU?

[ZeL1nK2]

Actually, I'm not even sure TWIE is town or anything and he could very well be scum, I guess, but I don't currently think that's the case and I would purge the game of TSO and Otolia before I go near TWIE. After that, and depending on what happens between now and then (who flips what), I'd start considering people like Espy and TWIE if we still haven't hit scum. But really, I don't want TSO anywhere near lylo and there's the same positive utility in lynching TSO that there was in lynching Anamikus - the only difference is that TSO isn't an awful lynch.

[ZeL1nK2]

No resistance?

What game are you reading?

[ZeL1nK2]

You shouldn't be listening to either Imperium, ZeL1nk or MS. They don't know what they're doing. Especially the former. Magua probably knows the most about what's going on; he's someone who, alignment aside, probably has the best chance of getting the last scum.

Yeah he's been doing real well so far.

I mean, worst case scenario that comes about as a result of your lynch - if you're town, TWIE is a high priority on the vig list. Which isn't bad if you're town because you apparently think TWIE is scum anyway. Hey, he might even get shot by Snowflake-senpai today. Though, honestly, I want to see Snowflake-senpai shoot you. But hey, we can't all get what we want.

[ZeL1nK2]

You've been doing fantastically well so far, my man. How many mislynches do you think you can rack up?

My count is zero at the moment, so I mean... I'm probably going to end up with less than anyone else?

[ZeL1nK2]

I think I've stated for days now I have no issue with you being vig-killed but that's less of an alignment thing and more of an "I don't want to have to deal with you or people talking about how you could be scum or stuff like that" thing.

Though if TSO is scum, I'd rather an Otolia vig or something.

[ZeL1nK2]

I see vig as a role that

should

be used mostly to get rid of players who are just... there. The ones who aren't doing enough to actually matter and who wouldn't be missed if gone, but are likely to end up a mislynch at some point if town and possibly coast until endgame as scum.

If Snowflake-senpai has a vig shot, I would like to see him shoot within the pool of {TSO, Otolia} with outside (worse, in my opinion, but only because I think they're less likely to be scum) possibilities of {you, Espy, Skybird}

I think a vig shot on the latter group is suboptimal, but it's better than alternatives outside he former group if, for whatever reason, the former group wasn't being shot.

[ZeL1nK2]

Skybird being scum seems to be a point of contention among certain players. (Or seemed to be earlier in the day? I recall seeing a Skybird wagon but it's not there anymore)

If it wasn't already clear, I don't think Skybird is scum.

[ZeL1nK2]

It does, though, since she's said she'll let a vig shot through.

[ZeL1nK2]

Zelink, you are free to push one of your preferred lynches.

Are you unclear on why I think TSO and Otolia are scum or something?

I'd be pushing it harder, but if Snowflake-senpai has a shot, he should probably be using it now before we decide on a lynch (and preferably on TSO)

[ZeL1nK2]

It's like 99.99999% that Pumbaa used his ability on Mask N1.

Pumbaa heavily hinted at it at the start of D2 ("I know of three reasons a night kill could be prevented now" when only two had been claimed) and basically everything he said about Mask on D2 especially with regards to hints about his role.

I doubt Snowflake mentioning it means anything significant.

[ZeL1nK2]

I think shooting TSO is bad cause we can just lynch him. Like, don't waste precious resources.

Yeah because your vig shot is more "precious" than a lynch.

Durrrr.

[ZeL1nK2]

TSO is a good vig shot because he's probably being lynched today.

Vig him now and we can sort out the lynch afterwards based on the flip.

If you vig TSO and he flips scum, it lets us decide the best lynch based on it. If he flips town, it forces a read reset for at least a fair few players (myself included) before deciding on a lynch.

If you vig, say, TWIE instead, then either he flips scum and yay or he flips town and we essentially gain nothing. At all. He's controversial in some sense and probably a tertiary scum read for some but he's not a huge suspicion for most players.

[ZeL1nK2]

for some reason people actually think espeonage is scum

Part of why I'm currently thinking Espy could possibly be town is behind-the-scenes stuff.

Imperium had basically full-claimed in the neighborhood and I *think* Espy was aware of the roleblock-for-2-phases thing. Meaning if Espy's scum, they did not care that they're essentially gimped tonight. And Imperium's role isn't a threat, really. Like the kill-stop was already used and the day-block is potentially harmful but not really? I mean, it did somewhat hinder Pumbaa but that's it. As Magua has already pointed out, they weren't a huge consensus town read like others. I mean, the only legitimate reason I can think of for scum-team-with-Espy to kill Imperium is that Imperium's Espy read has atrophied, I guess? But even then, bigger fish to fry.

Also, I think Bitmap was pretty likely to be town. Espy has been mostly an inactive lump of null but eh. There are some things he's said here and there I didn't mind. It's just they're few and far between. And I doubt he's even still reading the thread.

He could also just be disinterested scum. Eh.

[ZeL1nK2]

How many town left? How many scum left?

It's probably (effectively*) 13:3 right now.

19:5:1 or somewhere close to that seems about right for this setup.

3 group scum is about as much as there's gonna be left. Any other scum is probably third party.

* Effectively because I'm just lumping potential third parties in as anti-scum.

[ZeL1nK2]

Are these scummy vibes the same ones that Anamikus and Heartless were giving off? Was Pumbaa giving off town vibes, in your opinion?

[ZeL1nK2]

How do you even get "chaining mislynches" from that post? That is literally the opposite of what I was doing because I'm suggesting potential re-evaluation after flips.

[ZeL1nK2]

I assumed it triggered off any kill but yeah, I guess wait for confirmation then.

[ZeL1nK2]

I have an activable BP called Raven Shout for a day.

Everyone is Bulletproof or Deathproof: The Game.

[ZeL1nK2]

Except that, genius, peregrineV never got to use his overpowered as fuck ulti before he died

There was actually nothing overpowered about it.

The entire game is bulletproof, what good is a scum beloved princess? The roleblocking aspect is the more powerful side of it and it's not even that amazing, all things considered.

I currently think it's less likely that you're group-scum but I've dedicated pages to discussing why it could have very well been a 'bus' in my neighborhood.

It's not particularly important now, though, since I'm not considering lynching you before others anyway.

[ZeL1nK2]

Skybird's claim is starting to look kinda shady to me. Skybird claims getting notified of an incoming ability (and what it is?) with the ability to let it through, block it or redirect it wherever? Add a little godfather flavor to that and you've got a recipe for a scum role that would make sense in power level with what we have on the town side.

Am I overthinking this or?

Skybird seemingly doesn't know what targets her (given she claims an action targeted her last night but was not sure what it was).

As for whether it makes sense as a scum role, sure. In the same way an ascetic makes sense as a scum role. Is it necessarily scum? No.

[ZeL1nK2]

With the amount of roles that have something to do with votes, at least one scum member has an ability that manipulates votes in some way.

#BreakingRule23

[ZeL1nK2]

Wait, I suppose that could technically have been Pumbaa. Never mind.

[ZeL1nK2]

To be fair, you are calling Otolia's role "town-looking" because he claimed a vote modifying power (which was already known, btw) and... because he claimed BP, among the bajillions of other roles that can block/prevent/redirect kills.

So, I mean... your logic sucks to begin with

[ZeL1nK2]

Has TSO character-claimed?

[ZeL1nK2]

all I was told is that I was being targeted by an action. I was not told what the action was. I did not think to ask if it was a kill action or other.

How does this work? When do you get told and when do you have to respond by?

[ZeL1nK2]

Do you find that sort of reaction townie Zelink?

What?

Misreading something? Null.

Deliberately misrepresenting an argument or whatever you're claiming happened? Basically never happens when people say it's happening.

Is there some reason you want to speak up for Skybird?

Well, we're lynching TSO today. You can always advocate a Skybird vig shot if you really want. I don't think Skybird is scum.

[ZeL1nK2]

You're an incredibly smart player.

[ZeL1nK2]

Also of course you posting within two hours indicates that you're at least somewhat aware of and reading the game. Which makes me itch.

Interestingly, he posted once in the neighborhood PT today after I commented on the Imperium night kill saying I didn't even know if Espy was following the game closely enough to know you'd claimed the blocked-for-two-phases thing and he immediately responded that yes, he was.

So I gather he's vaguely reading the thread. I'm not certain he's scum for avoiding it, but I would not be sad in the least if he did happen to be killed by a vig shot.

[ZeL1nK2]

OR JUST SHOOT TSO BECUAUSE FUCK.

Not TSO because he needs to be lynched apparently.

[ZeL1nK2]

If you're going to shoot someone, can you do it sooner rather than later?

You didn't need every single person's opinions for the last shot you made.

Why are you going through this long, drawn-out process?

[ZeL1nK2]

Just vig deadweight, lynch TSO and get this day over with. A day under 100 pages would be nice for a change.

[ZeL1nK2]

Yeah!

We should really try to find that strongman! He's been doing a lot of work, nullifying all the protective/blocking roles in this game. And we need to find him today, because scum are definitely quivering in their boots at the thought of Snowflake-senpai living through the night.

[ZeL1nK2]

Well, then they definitely saved a shot for you.

[ZeL1nK2]

To be clear, I do not think you should be vig killed - specifically because it won't trigger Ollie's shot you need to be lynched.

So...

Misrep.

And misrep means you're scum.

Good game, well played, but this is the end of the road for you. Drixx has informed me that this sort of thing is highly scummy.

[ZeL1nK2]

Snowflake-senpai,

Just shoot someone so we can end the day already.

[ZeL1nK2]

If Snowflake-senpai submits a kill now, dramonic will see it in three days from now when he next comes on site!

[ZeL1nK2]

Oh damn

[ZeL1nK2]

Well, I have a better idea, Snowflake-senpai.

I roleblock you tonight and you don't get a shot off. That sounds good to me.

[ZeL1nK2]

By the way,

Otolia already has full-claimed.

mnemonic-slot is getting replaced but I doubt it's scum anyway. It's the gladiator-slot.

Everything you need to know about my role at this point in time is public information already. But you should probably be turbo-lynched if you actually shoot me against the advice of the only player who's

actually

confirmed town in this game.

[ZeL1nK2]

TSO claimed the ability that occurred yesterday (partially, no ability name or anything and he obviously lied about it). He refused to claim anything else.

so zelink


you are unaware of what brambles do?

I don't know what it did, but it was only on me at the dawn of D2. It's not an ongoing effect. According to our dear mod.

[ZeL1nK2]

Also, I doubt it was from mastin, so it's probably from someone who did something to me N1 and they haven't claimed it yet.

[ZeL1nK2]

oh ya zelink refresh my memory


what was mastin's super elaborate claim was again?

She puts bees on people during the day. Anyone with bees on them will spread bees to a person without bees if they target them with a night action.

She can investigate anyone with bees on them.

And that's basically it, except that apparently someone in mastin's neighborhood used some reflective ability on mastin last night. And perhaps can use it again, who knows?

[ZeL1nK2]

Also something something informed if gets killed or something, I don't know, it's not important.

[ZeL1nK2]

Just hammer.

[ZeL1nK2]

Your read on me meant a lot. Now my world view is shattered.

[ZeL1nK2]

Indeed. Maybe I'll review your ISO and learn how to play well. You seem like you know how to play well

[ZeL1nK2]

No. I'm not interested in talking to you. Self-hammer please.

[ZeL1nK2]

Magua,

Can you vote TSO for a second. I just want to test something.

[ZeL1nK2]

I agree. The only one more important than Snowflake is possibly pikari. I see them being cruci to a town victory but Imperium does nothing but push mislynches

[ZeL1nK2]

Snowflake isn't telling the full truth about his role. He can't shoot today apparently.

[ZeL1nK2]

Now we just have to wait a few weeks for dram to see the hammer

[ZeL1nK2]

Zelink, I liked you more D3ish when you were protown and stuff.

That person is gone now. He stopped caring about the game back when he and Imperium were the only ones writing any content whatsoever.

It's nice that you still seem to care, though. Kudos to you. Keep on shining.

[ZeL1nK2]

I mean, let's break down the game with the people who are still alive:

These people have not produced

any content whatsoever

in Gods know how long:

mnem-slot (I am aware he was just replaced but still)
Espeonage (he posted content when he replaced in I guess? kinda?)
pikari (comes in every few days to remind us he's still incredibly useful)
Ollie (recent replacement but still)
Otolia (hasn't actually formed any reads yet?)
ZZZX (I don't know what he's doing and, I suspect, neither does he)
TSO (dead now, we can all rejoice)
TWIE (biggest threat to scum)

(8/16)

These people have produced the bare minimum content (maybe a content post once every few RL days if we're lucky):

mastin (I don't know who's scum, could be anyone really, 50.5%, I don't want to lynch anyone but oh well, maybe I'll get a cop guilty one day by putting bees on players who obviously aren't scum)
Snowflake (being a special snowflake)
Skybird (is posting, not often though, probably the least bad of these 4)
Drixx (has produced some content today, I guess, but prior to today, virtually nothing came from this slot - was cooped up in their neighborhood circle-jerk and still is for the most part)

(4/16)

Of the rest, ooba posts decent content once every couple RL days, Imperium is slowly awaiting sweet death and probably resents ooba for reviving them and you're the only one who's been able to maintain motivation throughout this awful, awful slog of a game.

Actually, other than complications in my life at the moment that have prevented me from putting as much time into mafia lately, I stopped caring when my rock (Imperium) mostly lost interest (which was some point near the end of yesterday).

I just want deaths now.

[ZeL1nK2]

Also I could care less if you're entertaining the idea that I'm scum, even though

(a) You have Imperium telling you I'm not scum (though how much you trust them is up to you, I guess), and
(b) Imperium is pretty darn low on the list of people who ZeL1nK-scum shoots given ZeL1nK-scum knew all the details of Imperium's role pre-flip and there's no discernible gain in targeting them over... literally anyone else... Someone who is scum considered them a threat for some reason or made the shot assuming certain things about their role (like, oh, that they can kill-stop multiple times or something). Neither of these criteria fit ZeL1nK-scum, unless you think it was a pure WIFOM kill or something, which I suppose you could argue, but that's up to you, I guess.

Also, I'm going to be pretty angry tomorrow when mastin comes into the thread and says, "Oh, I put bees on ZeL1nK because Drixx was convinced he was scum and it turns out he wasn't and oh gosh, I just don't know who is scum, it really could be anyone, everyone has a 50.1% chance of flipping scum, what is a girl to do!?"

[ZeL1nK2]

They come back halfway through the day (7 RL days).

I'm currently considering the merit of a mass claim.

[ZeL1nK2]

Is there any actual reason not to mass claim today?

Any roles that are so useful that they *need* to remain hidden and haven't actually done anything yet over the course of 5 days and 5 nights probably aren't actually all that useful. And it possibly helps to co-ordinate things a lot better as well as potentially making things about the game clearer.

[ZeL1nK2]

Clarity.

I also don't believe the mastin-hood is all town, actually.

[ZeL1nK2]

Mass claiming just gives scum a better guide of who needs to die.

Oh, yes, because they're totally unaware about who the threats in this game are right now.

Sorry.

Ok, so which do you think is scum?

I don't know.

[ZeL1nK2]

The point, smartass, is that people who *aren't* regarded as a threat can still be a threat because role madness. Especially with the ultimates. But if you massclaim now scum know for sure.

Good, then.

If, for example, TWIE has something that forces scum to kill him, I want that to happen.

And if you don't know who is scum, then you may as well vote Metal Sonic because you don't have any better options, do you?

Nah, I'm cool.

[ZeL1nK2]

So here's what I'm thinking about right now.

Why did mastin die last night?

The obvious answer: "because claim"

But why last night specifically? Why did scum take a shot at mastin on a night when she apparently wasn't protected by whatever Drixx claimed yesterday? How did they know the reflective thing wouldn't be on her? Why did Drixx even claim that yesterday (even if people wanted information, that clearly wasn't the information people were requesting at the time - plus there wasn't even a huge call for more information)? Why had scum been ignoring mastin until last night?

This all makes me think scum were keeping tabs on that neighborhood and potentially influencing it. Whether it's Drixx setting up for the "woe is me, I shouldn't have done that!" or whether it's ZZZX capitalising on it, I don't know.

@Zelink:

Do you think Espeonage is town or scum.

I don't know. Probably town.

[ZeL1nK2]

Another thing I'm currently pondering is the fact that I roleblocked Skybird last night and, unlike yesterday, she hasn't claimed someone targeted her last night.

[ZeL1nK2]

Do you get any confirmation that your roleblock goes through?

No, it's a roleblock, not an investigative ability.

[ZeL1nK2]

Also, either scum got incredibly lucky with the kill choices or they were making informed decisions to target Imperium when mastin was protected by that reflective ability and just so happened to target mastin on the night the reflective ability wasn't affecting her. Not only that, but they chose to do nothing about mastin up until that point and then suddenly decided N5 of all nights was the time to kill mastin, being fully aware that Drixx had just claimed a reflective ability that would essentially kill them if true and they didn't care.

[ZeL1nK2]

The fact that mastin wasn't killed at an earlier point just suggests tey didn't think of cop as a treat (hint: there is no way in scum don't have some sort of counter to that)

Your counter point is essentially "well it could be a massive coincidence and dram put in a town reflector and cop in an all town neighborhood and I don't find anything at all suspicious about how this has played out"

Eh.

[ZeL1nK2]

This would mean 10000000000000000% more if you actually thought one of them was scum.

I do.

But that's a bit rich coming from Mr "here's a list of 10 players I'd be willing to lynch".

[ZeL1nK2]

I got a pm today right after the thread opened that I was being targeted. I told Dram to again let the action go through. But I didn't receive an email during night stating that I was being targeted. Do you get any confirmation that your roleblock goes through?

OK. After clearing something up, this actually fits.

The short version being: Roleblocking is the highest priority action in this game, if I roleblock you, you cannot actually redirect it so you were informed about it at day start but regardless of how you responded (whether you "let it through" or not), it wouldn't have made a difference because your action fails. Ergo, no need to inform you during the night since your choice wouldn't affect night actions. So back to regularly schedule programming.

Or I'm misunderstanding something, but I think this is right.

[ZeL1nK2]

Vote: Stabulous

[ZeL1nK2]

I'd really prefer any evidence that you were actually thinking about the game

I don't care to show you my every thought process. Quite frankly, I could care less what your personal opinion on me is and if you're scum-reading me because I'm not as "active" or "helpful" or whatever as I was on previous days, then you should probably sit down and take a long, hard think about how you form reads in a mafia game because you're doing it all wrong.

I contain most of my thought processes regarding players in my neighborhood. Why? Because (a) I don't value your opinions at all, and (b) I don't care to clutter up the thread even further just to show... what? That I'm town? If you can't read me as town from my posts thus far, then you're never going to, and if you think being "helpful" or "protown" is an indicator of being town, then see (a).

[ZeL1nK2]

You don't seem to care about trying to figure out which one is scum

Because what? I'm not asking them questions?

I don't need to actively question someone to try to figure them out. I have eyes. I can read.

I'm sorry. Maybe I should take your oh-so-helpful approach.

Hey Drixx. Is Magua scum or town?

Hard-hitting question right here.

[ZeL1nK2]

There are plenty of possible explanations for why mastin wasn't deemed a threat and I would have to have access to your neighbourhood to even begin to possibly rule some of them out. Maybe (read: almost certainly) scum have ways of manipulating the investigations. Maybe scum didn't consider mastin a threat early on because of the limited way it worked (i.e. they know exactly what mastin's investigation pool is). Maybe they kept mastin alive specifically for town credit (e.g. being able to make the argument you're making). Maybe a whole bunch of other possibilities.

What I think happened last night is you (or possibly ZZZX) decided it was reaching a point where you needed to take out mastin to free up certain possibilities and you used the fact that she wasn't going to be protected last night to your advantage to do so.

The alternative explanation here is that scum, with absolutely no access to your neighborhood, randomly decided to take a shot at mastin while being fully aware that if mastin was protected by the reflective ability, not only would their shot fail, but it would get them killed. They did so without the knowledge that mastin asked not to be protected. They did so after not deeming mastin a threat on previous nights (say, N4) when if they'd shot mastin N4 the situation I just described would have backfired on them.

To suggest scum got incredibly lucky making an extremely suboptimal shot given information available seems rather silly to me. I'm just undecided on whether it's you or ZZZX who's scum here.

[ZeL1nK2]

Oh, an addendum to the alternative explanation:

When dram designed the game, he thought your neighborhood being an all-town neighborhood with the option of working together in secret was fair and balanced given your claimed abilities.

Yeah.

[ZeL1nK2]

I'm working on the assumption there's 3.

Yes.

[ZeL1nK2]

Logically speaking, if there's only three scum left, there would have to be at least one (or two, if Otolia is scum) all-town neighborhoods so it's not an "in theory" thing. And that's assuming no scum double-ups in hoods (not counting AP as "scum" for the purposes of this). I have theories about who the all-town neighborhood/s would be, but nothing I'd bet the game on - I do, for example, currently believe Espy to be town.

Espy has full-claimed as far (as I can tell). I full-claimed everything except certain conditions on a previous day, and I claimed the conditions required to activate certain abilities I have last night because the conditions have now been met.

[ZeL1nK2]

snip

Either you or mastin directly claimed yesterday that mastin (plus another) was protected by the reflective ability N4. I do not see what the argument in the first paragraph is trying to say.

I doubt scum have a strongman ability, actually. I'm not sure how it would interact with the kill-stops and AP's bulletproof. Or if they do have one, it has specific conditions attached to it to account for those.

Multiple ways to stop kills was likely based around how strong AP/Pumbaa's roles were. The game works out conveniently in town's favour because they were killed/lynched before they could do any serious damage. I'm not underestimating scum power, you're overestimating it. Town power was ramped up to account for how powerful AP and Pumbaa's roles were. They don't need super-strong powers on top of that for the game to be balanced.

The argument that your neighborhood is not fair and balanced if all town is a weak one, and an afterthought I'm not putting heavy stock into, anyway, so I don't see a need to write multiple paragraphs on it. It's different from, say for example, my hood being all town, because while scum would be at a disadvantage not knowing our roles and having inside information, it's not on the same level as "if you try to kill someone in our hood, they live and you die, ha ha".

What makes you think 3 scum left? Would MS being another Racist impact that thinking?

Balance.

It depends on what his role does.

Why should I trust your personal read on Espy (presumably based in part on things in your neighborhood PT) more than you trust my read of ZZZX and his of me?

I'm not saying anyone should trust my read of Espy. There's a reason I haven't spoken out about it when multiple people have suggested either using a vig shot on him or lynching him (other than stating my opinion). I've said this previously (though perhaps only in my neighborhood) but if Espy is town, he's almost certainly never going to make himself obvtown and there's going to be a constant cloud of suspicion above his head that's going to cause him to be mislynch bait down the line. I'm undecided what to do about this.

On the other hand, he's not an immediate threat if scum. It's 100% he hasn't performed the kills on any of the previous two nights and he's roleblocked himself tonight, if scum.

[ZeL1nK2]

Farside-slot was never a scum slot and was never a good shot.

[ZeL1nK2]

Of the possible shots you could have made (including waiting until Espy was back in the game if there were strong opinions on him), that is by far the worst shot you could have made.

Though that's yet another tick in the "awful reads Magua has had over the course of the game" column.

[ZeL1nK2]

I would lynch Snowflake, but I don't want to be on a wagon Magua is on.

[ZeL1nK2]

ZeL1nK - wrong about TSO

Magua - wrong about Anamikus, Heartless, Farside, Imperium

And this is only flipped players. I know for a fact you're 50% wrong in your key suspicions today! You good player, you. I can see why TSO had faith in you carrying the game for town.

[ZeL1nK2]

You've spent a large portion of the game pushing and advocating for the deaths of players I think are most likely town. And now it's my turn, apparently.

Nothing brings me greater joy than annoying you and making fun of you for it.

[ZeL1nK2]

Oh, by the way, I would prefer day doesn't end before Imperium/Espy return to the game (partially to verify it actually happens and partially because I want to discuss something with them before the day ends

and partially because it's more time to annoy Magua

).

[ZeL1nK2]

I would also prefer nobody (especially Otolia) uses any other day abilities between now and when they return.

[ZeL1nK2]

Ankamius was a utility lynch to get FourTrouble a shot. I even fucking said I think he's town.

Two reasons:
1) It's the difference between D1 with no information, and D3 with a bunch. Ankamius hasn't posted content in three weeks, and I've had a mild scumread on him for quite awhile.
2) It gives FourTrouble a vig shot

Imperium I changed my mind about DAY FUCKING TWO.

Imperium: I'm not going to lie, I'm entirely sheeping F16's read on Imperium at this point

because I'm lazy

. Paranoia remains, yes, but like the Metal Sonic paranoia it's small now and should be dealt with at a later date.

"HOLY SHIT GUIZ MAGZ'S READS HAVEN'T BEEN 100% ACCURATE HA HA LOSER"

Fuck off and die.

"I think ZeL1nK is scum because he's not posting as much as he was D3"

I share the same sentiment.

[ZeL1nK2]

wtf is a fragilizer

It quite literally means something that makes things fragile. I'll leave it up to your imagination what it entails.

[ZeL1nK2]

Otolia was lying about his being a doublevoter

Seeing as this is easily verifiable, I doubt it.

Also, role names don't tell the full story since there is an aspect of my role not present in the role-name and not really covered by the "fragilizer" part.

[ZeL1nK2]

TSO

If it wasn't readily apparent via my questioning around the mastin-mod-error stuff.

And then I blocked him N4 as well.

[ZeL1nK2]

Wait, no, N2 and N3.

[ZeL1nK2]

mastin, TSO, TSO, Otolia, Skybird.

[ZeL1nK2]

Over the top attack is because I want to win this game, there are multiple slots in the game that are essential blanks to me, I really felt like I had to push and hound for anything besides stagnation to happen D4 and D5, and all TWIE and Zelink do is throw shit in my face. I'd rather TWIE and Zelink be more with the helping and less with the shit throwing.

I think your read on me is a joke. I don't even care if people scum-read me (Drixx has been doing so for a while, though I've yet to see anything other than "you're scummy" materialise in terms of reasoning). But you're scum-reading me for... a drop in activity or something. Yeah. Woo. This is after you chain-lynched players I thought were town despite my protests. TSO was being legitimately useless and there was a whole bunch of circumstantial evidence that pointed to him being scum (to the point that you were basically calling him too scummy to be scum). Anamikus? No. Other than "lurking", I guess, but there was also evidence pointing towards him being town. Heartless? No. I mean, he used his role in a controversial way and that was it.

Anything I say about you is purely coming from a place of not wanting to deal with you. I do not particularly care if this bothers you. I don't value your opinion on the game. I would rather not interact with you if I can help it. So I'm not going to from now on unless I see a point in doing so.

[ZeL1nK2]

You never fucking protested the Heartless lynched. You refused to move your vote from Otolia, but you never tried to get any of the Heartless voters to vote Otolia.

The day ended a full RL day before I expected it would, no thanks to ZZZX.

It was in the middle of a busy period of time for both myself and Imperium. I'd posted thoughts in neighborhood, was waiting for Imperium to get back to me on them. Then hammer occurred.

Like, you quite literally had Imperium saying this in the game thread:

I'll probably move our vote to heartless, but I want to talk to zelink as I know he's going to read back through him today.

[ZeL1nK2]

Meanwhile, all you were doing was going "COME ON GUYS, LET'S LYNCH HEARTLESS QUICKLY. NO POINT WAITING!"

[ZeL1nK2]

Just throwing these out there because I like randomly quoting things and not leaving any comments on them.

AngryPidgeon

(11): theaceofspades, Magua, ooba, Vezokpiraka,

Rachmarie

,

Ankamius

,

TSO

, Skybird,

Heartless

,

Imperium

,

The Mask

Ankamius

(9): Ooba,

Mastin2

,

Heartless

, Metal Sonic, VezokPiraka, Magua, Fourtrouble, Drixx,

Ankamius

[ZeL1nK2]

Unvote

I forget how many votes there currently are on that slot but whatever. Waiting on thingy and other dude to return.

[ZeL1nK2]

I feel discussion is going to stall without ZZZX around. This is problematic.

[ZeL1nK2]

Maybe, maybe not. ZZZX having zero content isn't something that started this day phase

[ZeL1nK2]

Presumably he's town-reading (not group-scum-reading) everyone else on the wagons

[ZeL1nK2]

The context of that lynch makes VCA on it essentially useless in the traditional sense, yeah?

In some sense, yes. But not really, since that was an incredibly active final 24 hours where almost everyone still alive was basically posting up a storm. But that would also only account for the last portion of the wagon being less significant (they've all flipped town apart from Skybird anyway, soooooooooooo).

I sincerely doubt the entire scum team was off that lynch, if that's what you're suggesting.

[ZeL1nK2]

I thought Otolia's stand-in player responded really transparently to the questions about his role when MS popped in with the shot and rolecop results. How did you read that ZeL1nK?

Why would any player of either alignment not do this?

[ZeL1nK2]

One thing that worries me about the Otolia slot (other than the complete lack of anything game-related from Otolia - he literally has spent the entire game talking about his role or things irrelevant to scum hunting and has produced a total of zero reads so far except when he voted large wagons on now-flipped town players) is that, while almost 400 pages is daunting, I think Stabulous's lack of trying to get into the game (apart from asking what the Snowflake thing was about, I guess?) might be indicative of him not wanting to screw anything up for Otolia-scum.

[ZeL1nK2]

How much of that early part of the game is influencing your thoughts today? More to the point, how much stock should I put in the early part of the game?

I barely remember anything game-relevant from the early stages of the game (mostly because I wasn't there for it, and all I did was a quick read-over during the night phase after I replaced in at the end of D2). So uh, very little? I read ISOs now and then and think about things that happened early on but that's about it. Most of my thoughts are contained in my head; I think X is town/scum for ~reasons I've probably listed in neighborhood but would likely not remember them all off the top of my head~. Though right now I'm in the midst of (slowly) reevaluating all of my reads.

Put as much stock as you want in it, I guess. To be honest, I don't think there's a lot of good to come out of D1/D2 except possibly looking at what happened with the Pumbaa/Ozgin thing. D1 was only mildly useful for getting a town read on players like farside (due to PV interactions) but that slot is dead now (thanks, Snowflake!) and I don't remember a whole lot else useful happening D1.

[ZeL1nK2]

@dram

My vote is, rather than having the game stall for another four real life days, just chop four days off the deadline and assume we've fast forwarded those days.

This, please

[ZeL1nK2]

Well, that's not what it implies, to be honest... It was an awkward response, sure, but in context it probably doesn't mean a whole lot (TSO's post before it).

Besides which, I'm not interested in lynching possible third parties at the moment anyway.

[ZeL1nK2]

Literally any available option was better as a shot specifically because there were actually-good interaction reasons to clear the slot, whereas a slot like, say, Espy (if we waited for then to return) or even Skybird/TWIE if people actually think they're scum were better from an info point of view and a chance-to-flip-scum point of view

Also I sincerely doubt the block of players (magua, vezok, Drixx, ZZZX, ooba) is all town. Mostly because I don't think the game is as simple as scum in Otolia, Espy and Snowflake hood, but I seriously doubt people are going to consider those options until we see flips elsewhere so right now I'm just thinking about how best to optimise the night play in the mean time (and that requires Imperium to come back in the game to discuss something). Also I'm thinking rotating protects on Imperium is a good idea even if it means some protective roles will be blocked the following night but that's also something I'm pondering

[ZeL1nK2]

That indeed would be the case, thus rotating. But we also have like 3 claimed protective roles (you, snowflake, ZZZX) on top of Espy's role and while I sincerely doubt you're all town, for the purposes of rotating protections, it doesn't matter. The key thing is, Imperium cannot die as long as at least two of you four are alive and rotate your protects.

[ZeL1nK2]

...

[ZeL1nK2]

I must have imagined Imperium dying.

Turns out it never happened.

[ZeL1nK2]

ooba, why did you revive imperium?

[ZeL1nK2]

Zelink did you fullclaim in your neighborhood?

Yes (though not the role name).

[ZeL1nK2]

They fully know what that entails. I did not use the word fragile, though, because it's not a part of the actual ability, just a descriptor in the role name.

[ZeL1nK2]

Who was alive when you full claimed?

If you mean fully claim all of the conditions around my abilities, that only happened yesterday (they knew what the abilities were prior, just not the conditions required for me to activate them - I deemed it unnecessary for anyone to know the conditions simply because it didn't matter until they'd been achieved). If you mean claim what the abilities do, first instances I can find in the neighborhood of me doing it were the beginning of march, so whoever was still alive then (two months ago), I guess.

[ZeL1nK2]

so whoever was still alive then (two months ago), I guess

That was D2 (not long after I'd replaced in) so when Pumbaa and stuff were still alive, I guess.

[ZeL1nK2]

The whole paragraph about Espeonage is wrong. Espeonage used his ability on Imperium during the last night phase - at the request of Imperium - to protect them from the kill last night.

[ZeL1nK2]

I have secret access to their conversations. Don't tell anybody.

[ZeL1nK2]

Who I would want shot? I couldn't tell you now since it depends a bit on a conversation I want to have with Imperium.

Who is a passable shot of the options that will likely be on the table? Eh... Espy and TWIE are "safe" shots but I don't have strong feelings about either being scum (though an Otolia town flip would necessitate reevaluating Espy anyway)

[ZeL1nK2]

He was giving town say before though? I mean, he shot who Magua wanted shot?

[ZeL1nK2]

Honestly, I wouldn't shoot ZZZX just because his role is going to get him killed if he's town (even though I don't think anything he's done looks town, at all, and him asking people to make a case base on zero content is making me laugh). Unlike other protective roles, his seems so overpowered that scum cannot afford to leave him alive and risk taking shots at other players. That said, if he's still alive in a probable lylo situation, I'd start questioning it.

[ZeL1nK2]

Zzzx-scum would know they shot imperium and thus more cognizant of his resurrection.

Granted, this should also happen in his neighborhood with drixx, so overall the takeaway is he and drixx aren't talking in the neighborhood.

All I take away from this is that he isn't paying attention to the game at all, and if he isn't paying attention to the game at all, then I don't expect him to be cognizant of anything whether or not he's town or scum. Normally I'd think a fuck-up like that is a mild town tell (with a disclaimer for potential fake "town tells") but really, here, it's just a not-paying-attention-to-the-game tell. Or a forgot-what-happened-last-night tell. I'd grant you that it's unlikely ZZZX had input on the kill if he is scum, though.

[ZeL1nK2]

They should come back in 6 hours, give or take a week from dram to come online

[ZeL1nK2]

Do not lynch otolia-slot yet, please

Give it 24 hours or so, please

[ZeL1nK2]

he evidently lied about being a doublevoter

I have no words for how incredibly silly this is, given it's easily verifiable.

[ZeL1nK2]

has anyone really ever verified it?

No, but he theoretically could at any time and if it were a matter of contention I'd ask him to do it but I doubt anyone else is getting lynched today so it doesn't matter

[ZeL1nK2]

What was your character again, Snowflake?

[ZeL1nK2]

Also, what's your role name?

[ZeL1nK2]

Drixx, are there some conditions around your vig shot that prevent you from shooting whenever you want or is there a reason you haven't used it yet (and haven't shown any intention of using it tonight)?

[ZeL1nK2]

Also has it been explained how Magua still had bees on him after mastin investigated him?

[ZeL1nK2]

Magua are you Artemis?

[ZeL1nK2]

I haven't done so in thread, so Nox

[ZeL1nK2]

Dear Snowflake,

If it pleases you, could you provide more detail on your abilities. Specifically the name of each ability you have (like, for example, "Fire Shards") and a brief description of them. Thanks.

[ZeL1nK2]

I can't find that god in the smite wiki

[ZeL1nK2]

You called Anamikus scum before he was lynched

[ZeL1nK2]

Drixx, are there some conditions around your vig shot that prevent you from shooting whenever you want or is there a reason you haven't used it yet (and haven't shown any intention of using it tonight)?

Reiterating, in case it gets lost

[ZeL1nK2]

Do not lynch otolia-slot yet, please

Give it 24 hours or so, please

It's been well over 24 hours since you requested some time. Can we get on with voting for someone?

No. Imperium will send smoke signals when the time is right (but they're really bad with flint so it might be a while).

[ZeL1nK2]

I don't think anyone (apart from snowflake who is a special snowflake) doubts that you can double-vote.

[ZeL1nK2]

My misgivings with you are more to do with the fact that you've done

literally

no scum hunting so far. Like literally none. Whatsoever.

You've given no reads, you've shown no indications you're making an effort to get reads, all you've done is talk about your role and vote major wagons (all of which have been town, but I can't really criticise this since that's the same for everyone, really - still, when combined with the fact you're not making an effort to do really anything this game - and yes I'm aware you've been away for a while but I'm talking about before that - it doesn't make you look good).

I mean, I don't feel super strongly that you're going to flip scum, but you're probably never going to be in any list of players I'd confidently call town (at least not with the way you're playing) and I cannot really see good reasons to think you could be town (ooba's whole "oh my gosh, scum wouldn't bus him like that!" is about the best thing that anyone can come up with and it's pretty damn weak since it's just a baseless assertion that scum wouldn't bus like that and despite my multiple requests for ooba to actually say why it wouldn't happen, I've seen nothing).

Anyway, Drixx needs to answer the question I've asked and then Imperium will say stuff.

[ZeL1nK2]

What lurking and fluff posting?

[ZeL1nK2]

There's ample reason for me to keep it to myself until I'm ready to use it.

Yeah, see, the thing is, you should be using it now. Not saving it for later. Use it tonight unless there's something preventing you from doing so.

I say this regardless of your alignment. There's no reason for you to hold on to it as town and I don't want you to have it available later as scum.

We also have a claim that their PT is nearing 1000 posts, and that bothers me a bit.

No, that was

my

post count in the PT. The actual PT itself is over 100 pages now.

Look, just because you and your neighbor buddies severely underutilised your neighborhood, doesn't mean everyone else did. I personally use the neighborhood as a platform to not only bounce ideas off neighbors to form better reads on them but also as a way to filter out the crazy (the game thread really does not need to be flooded with my every thought on every post that is made - that is what I use the neighborhood for... where Imperium must suffer the insane ramblings of a person half-mad). I mean, yeah, I could post everything I post there here and this game thread would be over 500 pages now and you'd all be even more apathetic than you perhaps are now. But I choose not to. Because I personally don't think that is a great idea!

so much lurking and fluff posting in the main thread

So, uh... Even if my enthusiasm has waned, I've been consistently producing more game-relevant content than anyone in the game bar maybe Magua (and Imperium at times, though their enthusiasm has waned of late as well). Heck, if you were to compare my ISO(s) and yours, it wouldn't even be a competition who's produced more content - mine would demolish yours.

I haven't been lurking. I haven't been fluff-posting. I understand Magua's accusation that my drive (and consequently the strength of my pushes) isn't the same as it was before, and while I find that accusation mildly amusing as a reason to scum-read me, it's at least a somewhat valid accusation. What you're saying on the other hand? It's just blatantly wrong.

Why do you refuse to answer questions about what "Fragilizer" means?

What questions haven't I answered (outside of ones that blatantly ask what it does)?

By the way, we could have mass-claimed today and I would have told everyone what it does. But we didn't. So I didn't. I'll tell you what, though... If Imperium feels it is worthwhile to share what the ability does, then they are free to do so.

Why are you attacking ZZZX for low production while you're hardcore chainsawing for a super lurksack in your own neighborhood?

Chainsawing how? I don't even really know how to respond to this because it doesn't make sense on any level. If you are simply suggesting that because I think Espy is more likely town than scum, despite his low content, I shouldn't criticise others for low content, then uh, you're missing the point entirely. If I could get a read on someone with low content via other means, I would not care that they have low content (well, I would care, insofar as I would prefer them not to be lurking, but as far as getting a read goes, there are other ways to do it). On the other hand, I have nothing to go off with ZZZX apart from what I see in thread and what I see in thread is pretty awful. Oh, and I suppose there's mastin (and you) vouching for him, but seeing as you've admitted you haven't talked about the game in any depth in your PT and that means your read is coming purely from role/mechanical guesses, I could care less about this.

[ZeL1nK2]

I'm... not swearing he's town?

[ZeL1nK2]

I also haven't spent most of the day going after ZZZX. Outside of suggesting I think there's likely scum in your neighborhood, I guess, if you interpreted that as going after ZZZX. And mentioning that ZZZX has almost zero content across his many posts (which is... true... so uh... I'm sorry for stating facts). I've hardly spent most of the day doing it.

[ZeL1nK2]

If you mean flavor-claiming, just ooba and your neighborhood.

[ZeL1nK2]

Oh, and Ollie, but he hasn't posted since we started flavor-claiming

[ZeL1nK2]

For reference (with my role/espy's role mostly blanked out)

Claims:

Player	Role Name	Abilities
Snowflake	Nu Wa: ??? ( JOAT )	??? : Roleblock (1-shot) ??? : Protect (1-shot) ??? : Rolestop (1-shot) ??? : Day Vig (1-shot) ??? : Rolecop three players and refresh abilities (presumably 1-shot)
Skybird	Sun Wukong: ??? ( Redirector )	??? : Can choose to redirect anything that targets her, or avoid them (?) or avoid killing actions but let others through ??? : Switch votes on two wagons (if self-target, triggers on lynch)
Otolia	Odin: Partially Bulletproof Reflexive Roleblocker	??? : Passive ability based on Ring of Spears, reflexive roleblocker? Raven Shout: Activatable Bulletproof Ring of Spears: Double-vote, adds stacks for passive ability
TWIE	Ne Zha: ??? ( Vote-stealing Treestump )	??? : Steal a player's vote for the day ??? : Treestump (on death?)
ZeL1nK2	Nox: Roleblocking Fragilizer	??? : Something ??? : Something Nightfall Raven: Roleblocker ??? : Something
Ooba	??? ( Reviver? )	??? : Some active ability he uses at night ??? : Revive a player (with certain conditions)
ZZZX	??? ( Reflector )	??? : Target a player, actions targeting that player will be reflected ??? : Can protect multiple players?
Ollie	??? ( Dayvig, lyncher-vig )	??? : Day vig, if scum dies as a result he gains 1-shot BP ??? : If target player is lynched, gain 1-shot vig power
Magua	Ares: ???	??? : Some night action that informed him vezok targeted Snowflake
vezokpiraka	Athena: ??? ( Rolestopper )	??? : Rolestopper
Espeonage	Janus: ??? ( Portals, Something )	Portal (?): Portal ??? : Something
Drixx	??? ( Vig? )	??? : Some ultra powerful vig shot that can't be blocked
Imperium	Sylvanus: Roleblocker Killstopper	Nature's Protection: Reflexive Roleblocker (next two phases) Nature's Grasp: Day Roleblocker Wrath of Terra (1-shot): Killstopper

Dead Town:

Player	Role Name	Abilities
F-16	Cupid: Cupid Killstopper	Share the Love: Temporary Loveriser Lovestruck: Counter for Share the Love Fields of Love (Resource): Kill Stop (Cost: 6 Lovestruck players)
Ozgin	Thanatos: Multivoting Executioner	Harvester of Souls: 0.5X-voter based on deaths since last day Hovering Death (1-shot): Voting power doubled (Cost: No vote the following day)
The Mask	Hel: Vote-Modifier Doc	Stance Attunement: Post restriction for use of other abilities, Dark / Light swap each day, starts Dark Repulse/Inspire: Dark stance makes a player hated, Light stance makes a player loved Restoration: Doc in light stance Switch Stances (Resource): Stay in stance for a day/night phase, doubles effectiveness of Repulse/Inspire (Cost: Vanilla 2 phases)
Ankamius	Vamana: Temporary Action-Immune Redirector	Umbrellarang: Temporary Day Redirector Sleeping Giant: Increases duration of Colossal Fury when targeted Colossal Fury (1-shot): Action Immunity for two phases
Andrius	Osiris: Partially Action-Immune Vote Modifier	Fragmented: Gain a stack when voted, at 8 stacks gain action immunity for two phases and lose stacks Judgement Tether: Non-consecutive, grants three players double votes for a day (Cost: They lost their vote the next day) Lord of the Afterlife (1-shot): Freeze votes on a player, activate Fragmented
Heartless	Geb: Partially Action-Immune Vote Blocker	Hard as Rock (lol): First action targeting self fails Cataclysm (1-shot): Remove the vote of every player on target wagon
TSO	Chronos: Bulletproof Vote Manipulator	Time Rift: Vote can't be manipulated/stolen Stop Time: Freeze a player's vote Rewind (1-shot): Can't die during a day phase, extends deadline if lynched
Mastin2	Ah Muzen Cab: Target-Spreading Investigator	Bees!: Bees spread when player with bees targets someone without bees, informed who has bees Swarm: Target player, give them bees Stinger (Resource): Cop (Cost: Bees removed and target does not spread bees that night)
Killerjester	Rama: Secret-Voter Modified Governor	Astral Quiver: Possesses three Astral Arrows, gain a new one each night Astral Strike: Increases votes on a player (Cost: One Astral Arrow) Astral Barrage (Resource): Modified Gladiator (Cost: Three Astral Arrows)

Dead Group Scum:

Player	Role Name	Abilities
PeregrineV	Kumbhakarna: Mass Blocker Princess	Mighty Yawn: Modified Beloved Princess Epic Uppercut: Day Roleblock/Muter
Pumbaa	Serqet: Poisoner Voteblocking Rolecop	Deathbane: Vote remover Cobra's Kiss: Rolecop Last Breath (Resource): Vig shot (Requirement: Use Deathbane and Cobra's Kiss on target)

Dead Third Party:

Player	Role Name	Abilities
AngryPidgeon	Fenrir: Lie-Detecting Racist	Brutalize: Lie Detector Unbound Runes: Gain rune on use of Brutalize Unchained: Gains 3 runes if nightkilled and survives Ragnarok (Resource): Strongman (Cost: 3 runes)

[ZeL1nK2]

No. D2 and today (D6).

[ZeL1nK2]

It has been mentioned and quoted many times today.

Sonic, the time for you to be fullclaiming is now.

Yeah. Just about time.

I'm a town JOAT, I have 4 main abilities and 1 ultimate.

4 abilities are: Roleblock, Protect, Rolestop(similar to Vezok's super protect), and Dayvig
Ultimate: Rolecop 3 people, refreshes all my abilities

Yesterday, I rolecopped:

Zelink: Roleblocking Fragilizer
Otolia: Partially Bulletproof Reflexive Roleblocker
Farside: Secret-Voter Modified Governor

Otolia was lying about his being a doublevoter, since the real doublevoter is Farside. Hence, I thought that both of them were scum covering up. Since Otolia had a legit Day-BP, and Ollie had him marked, I decided to shoot farside instead, but it was wrong.


I asked Dram what was a fragilizer, he couldn't tell me. So:

wtf is a fragilizer, is it a scum role?

oh, apparently I can use my action on the PV block night. i can waste it.

N2 - protect vezok (blocked)
N3 - super protect vezok (no kill N3)
N4 - roleblock ooba
N5- Ultimate
D6 - Now.

[ZeL1nK2]

Imp, why do you want me to waste it?

It was actually my suggestion - because, while I do not really think you're scum, you ultimate has no protown use and if you do happen to be scum, I'd rather you not have it down the line

[ZeL1nK2]

Also, I know deadline is really close and people are getting bored, but please wait just a little while longer before lynching. Need to sort one last thing.

[ZeL1nK2]

I simply do not believe that vezokpiraka-scum, who has a power that can protect from both kills and investigations, uses that power on Metal Sonic-town.

Especially N3 when FourTrouble was going to vig someone because we had lynched Ankamius.

Eh. Like ooba said, there exists the possibility of trackers, people targeting the player he said he targeted when he didn't actually target them and not being blocked, etc.

Alternatively, he could protect another scum buddy, claim it (because people would ask), and if they are ever lynched, look extremely bad and probably go down immediately afterwards. I do not think this is a great idea in the long run for pikari if he happens to be scum.

[ZeL1nK2]

VOTE: ZeL1nK2

If we are testing Skybird's ability today, switch my wagon with someone random (preferably not Otolia!)

[ZeL1nK2]

What? So it's just an infinite-voter?

[ZeL1nK2]

The point is that any use you have for it as town is only useful if you are town

[ZeL1nK2]

From your point of view, it's fine. From anyone else's point of view, if you're scum you auto win at lylo because of that

I don't want you having that option in lylo for the same reason I don't want Drixx having his ability later in the game

It really doesn't matter to me that you could theoretically use it in lylo as town

[ZeL1nK2]

I understand that. But we still need the answer from Imp on when you brought this up. Post 435 in the Chinese PT is where I told TWIE and MS that I was going to use it and asked them to keep it quiet. I am town. I realize that you all don't believe me about that, but it is what it is. Hopefully when we play in future games you all will have a little better idea of how to read me.

It's not even about whether I think you're scum. Even if I were 99.9% sure you were town, I would want you to waste the ability just in case I'm wrong.

[ZeL1nK2]

Could be. Bottom line though, it seems suspicious that I figure out a way to use my ability for the town and now it becomes a point of discussion. Why now?

Because I hadn't put together a list of claims prior to recently and had a think about what could go wrong in this game if certain people are scum. Basically I don't want you or Drixx having those abilities in lylo

[ZeL1nK2]

Throwing out the baby with the bath water a bit there Zel.

No

And you really should stop being vague about what your ability does - really, what is the point?

It's hard to plan optimal play around your ability when you're going, "Well, maybe it's a hammer, but maybe it isn't, but maybe it's like a vig, but maybe it isn't!!! Who knows, it could be anything with the power of imagination!"

[ZeL1nK2]

is there anything I can do to convince you I am 100% town?

Outside of Imperium (for super-obvious reasons), there is no one I would call even close to 100% town.

[ZeL1nK2]

What does that even mean?

[ZeL1nK2]

Pretty much. And unlike Skybird's ultimate which could potentially be used in a pro-town way if you squint sideways and ignore certain things, there is quite literally no protown utility in Drixx holding onto his ultimate.

[ZeL1nK2]

Especially if it ends the day, which I'm assuming it does, but maybe not.

[ZeL1nK2]

In fact, now that it's been clarified that it's not a vig shot, I'm wondering what the entire point of the "plan" that hood came up with was... If mastin ever got a guilty, we could have just

lynched

it. Why was Drixx's ability necessary to this?

But whatever. Trying to delve into the mind of mastin is likely to drive a person to insanity.

[ZeL1nK2]

our plan as a neighborhood was to find scum, have me kill it and lure the scum into killing themselves on ZZZX's ultimate by implying I could do it again right away

Oh, right. This.

Well I suppose it's very likely that scum would see that and think to themselves, "wow, that Drixx guy is the real threat there, as long as we take him out, there's nothing town can do about guilties or anything like that."

I was a fool to doubt there wasn't sound logic in this plan.

[ZeL1nK2]

Sure... Or we could just play the game out without the possibility that one of you is scum with a super-awesome, easy way to win at lylo/mylo (as though dram wouldn't have given scum an ability like that in a role madness game - though arguably Pumbaa's vig was one such ability so there may or am not be others).

I would personally rather be able to say, "oh, hey, that's cool! Now I don't have to worry about Skybird having a game-winning ability in lylo if she's scum!"

For any argument that could be made for keeping it, the counter-argument is simply that you don't need it if you're town - if you're getting voted in lylo, it'd be because someone doesn't think you're town and if that's the case, why wod they want you having that ability in lylo. And if you're so town, you wouldn't have a need for it anyway so get rid of it

[ZeL1nK2]

That was at 10226 (a post number I never imagined myself referencing in a mafia game but oh well, a single tear is shed for the game state)

[ZeL1nK2]

The problem is (really) that we're much less assured that you are town.

In all honesty, I think Skybird is more likely town than Drixx.

[ZeL1nK2]

Now that you've stripped my entire utility bare and I have much less choice of drawing a night kill

Imperium already touched on this a bit, but I'm of the philosophy that if your role is what makes scum want to kill you when nothing about your play is a threat, then you're just playing badly and that's your own fault. If scum were going to kill you purely because of your role, then I'm sorry, I guess? It says a bit about you as a player, though, that you're whining that now your role isn't hidden, you'll never be a threat to scum. Eh.

[ZeL1nK2]

I'm sorry but that entire first paragraph is contradictory considering I am suggesting we remove role shenanigans and play the game like it should be played whereas you're proposing the opposite (ie not "winning the way you're supposed to")

[ZeL1nK2]

Your bullshit excuse for play is getting tired.

I don't know what exactly you mean by this

Also the "threat" of being removed from the game isn't quite the threat you mean it to be

[ZeL1nK2]

Pretty much everything you're saying I did, I didn't do

I'd ask you to quote stuff but I simply don't care

Unless anyone has anything else to say, I'm pretty ready to just end the day now

[ZeL1nK2]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Imperium about the plan, though I don't feel it's at all likely Espy will flip scum. Pretty much hoping the night phase and Otolia's flip makes things about the setup clearer.

[ZeL1nK2]

Vig killing pikari would be a silly idea IMO

He claims he can self-protect anyway

[ZeL1nK2]

Updated Plan with Drixx's ability explained:

Town lynches Otolia
Ollie shoots Espeonage
Snowflake protects Imperium
Ollie submits mark on Metal Sonic (who Drixx will super hammer tomorrow)
ZZZX protects whoever
Vezok protects Imperium

[ZeL1nK2]

I think the mark thing maybe changed? I don't remember. Rest of the plan is as it was, though, as far as I can tell.

[ZeL1nK2]

Or rather, we're not lynching based on the mark so whatever.

Figure it out tomorrow. Anyway, deadline is fast approaching.

VOTE: Otolia

[ZeL1nK2]

We have approximately 10 hours to the deadline, by the way, and Otolia is L-2 (assuming no shenanigans) so yeah.

Keep that in mind, please.

[ZeL1nK2]

Wait, no, I'm maybe missing votes.

[ZeL1nK2]

Votecount 84: Swagalicious

Otolia (3): Skybird, TWIE, vezok
Ooba (2): Metal Sonic, Ollie
Zelink (1): Zelink

Not voting: ZZZX, Ooba, Otolia, Drixx, Magua, Imperium, Espeonage

It's 7 to lynch

Deadline is in 1 day 12 hours.

VOTE: otolia

end the day now

im surprised you can even think i am scum skybird, but you're still 100% town okay!

Or rather, we're not lynching based on the mark so whatever.

Figure it out tomorrow. Anyway, deadline is fast approaching.

VOTE: Otolia

Nope.

5 votes, assuming no shenanigans.

[ZeL1nK2]

Oh. Then 6.

So L-1.

By the way, ooba, does 4 phases mean you would die at the end of tomorrow or the end of tonight?

[ZeL1nK2]

Maybe someone will revive you!

[ZeL1nK2]

Oh, because I may forget to ask in post game, have you figured out what my role does?

[ZeL1nK2]

Drixx was 7 actually, but one more can't hurt.

[ZeL1nK2]

By that metric a usurper is also lying to the player.

Is Usurper not a bastard role? It should be if it isn't...

[ZeL1nK2]

not lynching drixx when he claimed 3p was a really bad misstep. it wasn't prisoner's dilemma. you don't negotiate with non-town.

This 100%.

Never listen to anything mastin says.

Third party claims need to die before lylo.

Not because they could be scum fake-claiming, but because they could be third party... fake-claiming. Or at least fake-claiming that they can win with the town and whatnot. I mean, maybe you don't need to immediately lynch them, but you need to not let them get to lylo.

[ZeL1nK2]

It would have helped if there was a slot in this game that could answer questions about what was said in that neighborhood early game.

Unfortunately there was not.

Also, I don't put so much blame on the living players outside of ZZZX since this should have happened if anyone actually competent at the game was in ZZZX's position.

[ZeL1nK2]

Because no one else was blatantly lying about information they knew to not be true.

[ZeL1nK2]

I am not criticising mastin's reads (everyone in this game had not-great reads). Just mastin's decisions.