SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Imperium]

Please don't shoot ooba.

I'd shoot aceofspades. I really like my theory, but that theory doesn't feel strong enough to stand up against play.

[Imperium]

Or even better shoot TSO.

[Imperium]

I'm fine with no lynching. We have a third party down and a scum down, and day two is just a fucking wash as far as I'm concerned. The game can actually begin on day three. Can we have no fuckery? It'd be nice to have no fuckery.

[Imperium]

which scum game?

[Imperium]

The is no motivation for FT as town to have not just taken the shot by now. The only reason to wait this long is because it serves two purposes for scum.
1. Brings deadline closer, to a point where it might be too hard to push through the lynch.
2. Allows for FT to find out who an accepted target is so that when the person that dies is town, FT can try to avoid being lynched by playing the "I did what you want me to" card.

Neither of those make me feel good.

This would make sense if FT was advocating for a lynch this game day. But he's not, so it doesn't.

[Imperium]

Can you tell me more about Ooba? I just skimmed one of his scum games and he looks very competent.

He is very competent. He is competent enough to play the game he's played as scum. He is certainly competent enough to keep his reads straight as scum. Why would he choose to play this game the way he has?

[Imperium]

So, I drank some wine and forgot to check that scum game of ooba's. The fact is I like the self meta. I like the reverse self meta that magua hates. I like that he's appealing to the people who know his town game and saying that there's a reason we read him as town.

I like all that. I like that I think that he's trying to figure out the game. It all hits me in that sweet town spot.

Shoot someone else. Shoot aceofspades or TSO.

I'm going to sleep now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Imperium]

I don't understand.

[Imperium]

Okay here is the problem with a no lynch.
This game is at 252 fucking pages on day fucking 2.

And?

And we need flips. The length on this game with 3 dead hasn't lead to much here

if you actually think this, read the game and respond to the thought processes people have put in the thread about td, which don't equal "lol too dumb". if you can't do that, just lurk out the rest of the day and try tomorrow.

[Imperium]

This line of discussion seems even more fruitless than other goings on in thread.

[Imperium]

I don't think we should lynch fourtrouble because he just shot scum.

[Imperium]

I don't think we should lynch zelink because he was blocked on D2 trying to target TD and I don't really think that's a scum move, but maybe I'm just crazy.

[Imperium]

Ozgin claimed scum after saying he would rather be lynched than see a no lynch happen. The motivation for claiming scum seems pretty clear.

[Imperium]

I'm also of the mind it would be highly advantageous to lynch Ank tomorrow and use FT pick power as a second town controlled kill.

[Imperium]

I can't see two scum in the cephrir neighborhood defending themselves to the extent that they defended one another. I am very glad you shot Cephrir over ooba.

[Imperium]

Btw Ceph being scum means vezok's doc isn't why night-kill failed. So someone else out there is confirmed town on that basis, and it lends more credence to TD' roleblock.

I do believe that Mastin has a good chance of being scum, but I don't believe this is the reason for the missing nightkill.

Also, I think I'm finally learning how to read Cephrir!!!

[Imperium]

vezok claimed the cephrir heal before TD claimed the role block on mastin.

[Imperium]

Mastin - iirc you pride yourself on being able to read cephrir. What's your read there?

He's not truly the player in this game I pride myself for being able to read. (That'd be AP.)
He's more on, like, Nacho levels I'd say overall. (Or ETL levels for that matter.) I get it right more often than not, especially if given time, but it's not something that comes 100% of the time. That being said, the read is hovering at town right now, and it's not just on claim, but the claim certainly contributes. I simply don't think he's scum, but the read's not 100%, not even close.

Putting this here as a reminder. I was telling nacho I didn't like the read mastin gave on cephrir.

[Imperium]

Vote: No Lynch

Also, justsayin', this better be Tammy.
(Though I'm reasonably certain it is.)

You've been zero for two both times you thought it was me :p

[Imperium]

Open Letter

My dearest Nacho,

Words cannot describe the love that exists between us, and the trials we have overcome together. Only one thing prevents us from enjoying a happy, luxury-laden life as 'deities' sipping ambrosia from glasses of diamond and eating sweets and breads from sunrise to sunset.

They are those who wish us harm. Those who do not support this world of order. Scumbags.

I believe mastin to be one of them. Please respond to me at your convenience with why you think he is town, and if you do not think so, what your plan is for removing this player from our ambrosia-laden court with no small amount of ugly death.

Yours,

Andrius

p.s. <3 for Tammy too but I don't know her as well.

Please ignore my altruistic ramblings. I have no desire to ever drink ambrosia and this is somewhat out of character for a lowly man as myself but I am playing to the flavor.

Nacho should be asleep right now, so you'll have to wait for ambrosia shots if we're all alive tomorrow.

We spoke briefly about Mastin earlier, and I'm more concerned about her than Nacho is...I think. I think. I should have pushed my cephrir read harder but meh and this game, so.

<3

[Imperium]

And, hey.
Let me put it this way.
We have three dead scum in less than three days.

You can wait one damn day longer and have a little faith in me to trust what I'm doing.

oh look ap isn't town anymore!

[Imperium]

VOTE: mastin2

this vote is scummy

[Imperium]

guess they could be but not for that vote

[Imperium]

we're not having another day of no explanation

sorry

Why?

[Imperium]

VOTE: TSO

[Imperium]

Like 10feb

Did you and Xombie both also fullclaim around this time?

---

What do you think about mastin not submitting an action last Night?

Alternative question: Was there any conversation D2 about mastin clearing y'all D3?

I never dull claimed. I have claimed most of my stuff early on. I got cleared at night 1 basically thou

What about Xombie?

---

Is your clearing basically "mastin claimed something or other whereby if you were scum you would've shot her but she didn't get shot therefore you're not scum"?

Nope. It was an actions interaction.

And zombie was cleared d1 somewhat.

I wouldn't mind hearing why you guys think you got cleared on day one and night one.

[Imperium]

Because from my point of view, the only person who got cleared day one is the person who blocked cephrir from taking a day action on TD/Zelink, and that wasn't Xombie.

The only person who got cleared night one is the person who made there be no kill, and that wasn't you.

So, color me confused.

[Imperium]

Spoiler: Yesterday's wagon interaction on Peregrine

Vote: Peregrine

I'd love a flashwagon but not on myself or Beast. I don't know why the Vyse wagon derailed - his replace-out doesn't make sense.

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

pedit: my man this question is just fr you

VOTE: peregrine

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

I'm not.

I am, and I think anyone reading his switch from you to the mastin wagon should also be.

nope!
let's lynch peregrine.

I'd love to hear why you're not.

Do we have to lynch Peregrine? He's a completely null read.

yes.

No, I don't particularly feel like Peregrine. My apologies.

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i'll type up a town case when i have time.
why not compromise on a null read? TD isn't getting lynched today.

Hey guys, having problems irl, don't want it to spill over in to game, but don't REALLY have time to post right now. I've looked terrible this game and this move is not going to help. I think cephrir is scum UNVOTE: VOTE: cephrir I'll try to explain this when I get back, promise.

I think Cephrir's scum!

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

Still going with Cephrir-scum!

I do not like this interaction Sam-I-Am. Note to self, Stick-With-Your-Gut, and logic and everyone else be damned. VOTE: Solar Wind

My gut said it was Solar Wind all along!

Ceph is almost certainly town at this point.

Cephrir is so town!

Ceph and solars talk was crappy, Solars vote and unvote stinks of scum trying to make something happen and backing off quickly when it doesn't. Ceph's gambit is town.

Ceph town, Solar still scum.

Hi magua! .

And no, no particular reason to have a read on Rach either way, but in my experience scum rach super lurks, though that may just be rach-rach XD.

I would love to lynch mastin today, that would make me happy, it just doesn't seem likely :/.

I support mastin as well!

Ya know what, fuck it this lynch is more likely than a lynch on Solar XD, why the fuck not. VOTE: mastin

Mastin is scum!

Didn't include points on PV but he supports that dying too.

But, even if you feel it's weak - it's still far better than Peregrine.

Because the case on Peregrine is ??? right now and ??? does not lead to a scum lynch.

At the same time, your case on Peregrine is

still

???, and you've clearly been reading the thread! So I'm waiting to be blown away.

Okay.

I am still waiting for why Peregrine is scum.

Not interested in the D1 lynch of anyone I consider to be lynchbait just because they do lynchbait things. That's what makes them lynchbait.

This includes both PeregrineV and TiphaineDeath.

In particular, I see nothing in TSO's 2265 that says TD-scum to me rather than TD-just-being-his-goddamn-normal-self. If anything, TD jumping his reads over like that makes me more likely to read him town because scum just wouldn't need to.

Do want to vote Imperium, though, for pre-emptive buddying, but this is past RVS so I won't even though I should.

Oh, so basically:

My case on TD is, apparently, bad and so we are not doing it.
Your case on PV is, quite clearly, non-existent and yet we ...are doing it?

I'll admit it - the TD case is solidly mediocre. It's still the best thing we've got right now.

TD is town and so we are not doing it. In addition, the case on him is bad.
Peregrine is ??? at BEST and so we are doing it. There is no case on him.

*bashes head through screen*

What you will see if you click above is the interaction once Nacho started to try to push for a Peregrine lynch yesterday. (yes, he backed off, Peregrine pulled that same exact you should lynch me eventually to help town as a town beloved princess in cap com where Nacho and I were scum, we thought he was doing the same thing.)

But, as Nacho starts pushing Pere and Cephrir jumps on, TSO starts ramping up his lets lynch TD, what's the case on Pere. I included the Magua interaction because it's also twitch worthy for the reasoning. He considers Pere lynchbait so he doesn't want a lynch there BUT rachmarie is also lynchbait so I'm not sure why he considered her a fine lynch, so.

Anyway, didn't pick this up in Peregrine's iso but when TSO complained about trying and not getting a TD lynch, I didn't remember him even pushing TD so I looked and voila.

I think this makes him more likely scum. (I'd say definite scum, but in Once Upon a Winter's Night, I thought Beast could be scum for refusing to help me lynch scum Antihero on day one because he didn't like the case on him.)

[Imperium]

Can I get why people think mastin is scum again?

CAN SOMEONE JUST FREAKING EXPLAIN WHAT THE * is going on here and not ignore me?

*SMASH HEAD BY WALL*

STOP/IGNORING/ME people...

Can you explain what the heck this was all about?

Your first post is four minutes before your next three posts. In that four minutes of EVERYONE IGNORING YOU Mastin and Zelink were the only people to post.

So, why did you feel the need to go ballistic?

And what purpose does it serve to get into a "You haven't done more than me you're posting fluff" slap fest with Zelink when if you're reading the game even as a skim master (or novice) you'd have to be color blind or not have a pulse to miss the blinking green lights that shine from all of his posts.

This all just feels fake.

[Imperium]

Town is in (Zelink, Magua, FourTrouble, ooba, vezok, xombie) and probably in (espionage, metal sonic, farside)

Need to think about everyone else.

Nacho would probably add Mastin to the probably town list though I think.

[Imperium]

Town is in (Zelink, Magua, FourTrouble, ooba, vezok, xombie) and probably in (espionage, metal sonic, farside)

Need to think about everyone else.

Nacho would probably add Mastin to the probably town list though I think.

He would add Mastin and ZZZX to the probably town lists. Also, we are still lynching Ank today, just a friendly reminder.

[Imperium]

Town is in (Zelink, Magua, FourTrouble, ooba, vezok, xombie) and probably in (espionage, metal sonic, farside)

Need to think about everyone else.

Nacho would probably add Mastin to the probably town list though I think.

He would add Mastin and ZZZX to the probably town lists. Also, we are still lynching Ank today, just a friendly reminder.

...but but TSO?

[Imperium]

Can I get why people think mastin is scum again?

CAN SOMEONE JUST FREAKING EXPLAIN WHAT THE * is going on here and not ignore me?

*SMASH HEAD BY WALL*

STOP/IGNORING/ME people...

Can you explain what the heck this was all about?

Your first post is four minutes before your next three posts. In that four minutes of EVERYONE IGNORING YOU Mastin and Zelink were the only people to post.

So, why did you feel the need to go ballistic?

And what purpose does it serve to get into a "You haven't done more than me you're posting fluff" slap fest with Zelink when if you're reading the game even as a skim master (or novice) you'd have to be color blind or not have a pulse to miss the blinking green lights that shine from all of his posts.

This all just feels fake.

Because votes were going in without anyone explain wtf was going on

NOPE that was not happening.

[Imperium]

Like 10feb

Did you and Xombie both also fullclaim around this time?

---

What do you think about mastin not submitting an action last Night?

Alternative question: Was there any conversation D2 about mastin clearing y'all D3?

I never dull claimed. I have claimed most of my stuff early on. I got cleared at night 1 basically thou

What about Xombie?

---

Is your clearing basically "mastin claimed something or other whereby if you were scum you would've shot her but she didn't get shot therefore you're not scum"?

Nope. It was an actions interaction.

And zombie was cleared d1 somewhat.

I wouldn't mind hearing why you guys think you got cleared on day one and night one.

Because from my point of view, the only person who got cleared day one is the person who blocked cephrir from taking a day action on TD/Zelink, and that wasn't Xombie.

The only person who got cleared night one is the person who made there be no kill, and that wasn't you.

So, color me confused.

I don't give two fucks whatever anyone else thinks about their knowledge or their beliefs about their roles or what they think that means for them.

I care about the answers to this.

[Imperium]

This is seriously not my modus operandi as scum, and if I'm not in my MO as scum, that means that I'm probably town, and if I'm town, then while I might not have a perfect understanding of things, while my reads aren't gonna be perfect, when I say scumhunting god = me, and my neighborhood is not to be touched, you can afford to fucking TRUST me for that much longer.

I"m going to have a little faith in my other head and believe you that maybe this is not you as scum, but I absolutely do not believe in your masonry and think that with the shit that zzzzx has put into the thread he absolutely does not deserve to be given god town status. Especially with the bullshit ass soft claims that have been divied out that I know mean shit all.

[Imperium]

but i'm going to *whimper* because I want to lynch TSO and apparently we're not allowed to?

[Imperium]

I don't care how it happens; I just want TSO gone.

[Imperium]

STYLE

[Imperium]

Nacho endorses a TSO pick, Ank lynch plan. Nacho sees no reason why it would be inferior to lynch TSO, hold genitals in hands plan.

[Imperium]

the roleclaim that you just refused to give, or...?
don't know what interactions with cephrir you're talking about.

[Imperium]

There are so many satirical comments I want to make about this game right now.

No, please, don't hold back on my account.

[Imperium]

Except I'm not faking knowledge I don't have and I'm not clearing multiple people based on information only I know. I'm also not incriminated by results on night 1.

You're also asking to be left alive a lot longer than mastin is. I don't think scum mastin tries to claim weird shit like that (why?) and mod error around that time corroborates her story pretty solidly. The Night 1 roleblock seems a weak reason to call mastin scum.

[Imperium]

Nacho endorses a TSO pick, Ank lynch plan. Nacho sees no reason why it would be inferior to lynch TSO, hold genitals in hands plan.

Tammy doesn't exactly understand this post.

Also, I forgot why we were supposed to lynch Ank today.

[Imperium]

1) Lynching Ankamius lets FourTrouble vig

2) Ankamius is pretty scummy

Oh that's right I forgot. Nacho we can lynch ank then.

Does fourtrouble get a shot tonight then or will we wait until tomorrow?

Metal sonic, can you VIG today?

[Imperium]

We aren't directing FT's big shot: we are directing his pick, which I recommend is TAOS.

[Imperium]

Recommend to be, whatever, I'm tired as shit.

[Imperium]

We aren't directing FT's big shot: we are directing his pick, which I recommend is TAOS.

Well then I have absolutely no idea what's going on :/

[Imperium]

Oh wait, are you referring solely to the part after you called him "warty"?

Because if that's it, then that's also a small part of why I think you're scum together (that looked like nothing more than distancing to me).

Was that the interaction you're saying can't be scum-scum? Or is there other stuff I'm missing?

The only other stuff I saw was the TSO was an asshole bit, which also doesn't even seem marginally convincing and actually makes me more suspicious of TSO as a result.

[Imperium]

Okay nacho I believe you that mastin's town.

[Imperium]

Because we're both a force to be reckoned with?

And what makes it sadder is we keep looking at each other going "you post" " no you".

[Imperium]

Although I have promised nacho that I will do SOMETHING this weekend.

Not tonight though cuz this two-hearted ale is nice.

[Imperium]

Imperium are just... not here. I believe Imperium thinks the scum team is comprised mostly of alcohol and they're doing their best to scum hunt in their own way?

I love you.

Sorry, we've both been busy and Nacho is in North Carolina right now.

I'm going to try to catch up tonight.

[Imperium]

Bleh I hate days that are already decided because it's like twiddling your thumbs, and I've been busy and haven't gone back to read ceph's ISO, which I should do, but then I'm also like weellllll that can wait a while cuz I can always do it tonight because even if we do die we can leave shit in the neighborhood.

I don't have any great hopes that ankamius will flip scum, but.

Unfortunately, I don't think I found any of the scum team in the beer or wine I've drankdrunk? This weekend, but I've really searched hard! Maybe naçho had more luck in his search In North Carolina. I don't know why my iPad is putting a cedille in nachos name. Is that a cedille? It looks like one and I'm pretty sure he's not French.

[Imperium]

FT, who are you going to pick after Ank is lynched?

[Imperium]

I'm also probably just scumreading mastin at this point, still willing to give her another day.

[Imperium]

are you up for lynching ankamius? he became scummy.

Not really!

I know based on the interaction in the PT there is no way PV and anka are scum together so I will be very much against that lynch.

I don't think he's scum. I would rather lynch TSO. Nobody else wants to do this. I don't know why.

At the moment, nobody seems to want to do anything at all in this game and it doesn't help when Anamikus himself is being unhelpful (I don't care what he's doing in your neighborhood if there are no visible signs of content in the game thread).

I see value in the utility of his lynch even if he is town, to get rid of a distraction and activate FourTrouble's vig shot and reset his target.

Though I would still rather see TSO dead today because so many things can go wrong with an attempted vig shot.

I don't see a reason not to lynch Ank when, even if Ank is town, he's probably going to get mislynched down the road because nothing he's done at this point has been particularly town or useful and the life of one useless townie is very much worth activiating a confirmed town kill power, which will give us more chances to hit scum.

[Imperium]

Especially when said confirmed town has proven himself to be competent already.

[Imperium]

"...and, no word of a lie, I told them I hadn't performed an action, but I'd still got a result, which turned out to be a not-result and they

actually believed me!

I swear! *thumps hand off desk, chuckles heartily* "

So... the mod error around the exact same time...
Just one of those crazy coincidences that totally has nothing to do with mastin's claim even though no one else claimed anything mod error-y around the same time and it happened in the middle of the day and didn't seem to affect anything else, right?

[Imperium]

Will someone let me be lame and save me the effort of looking back?

Has Ank actually been hammered?

[Imperium]

Thanks.

How far away is he?

[Imperium]

Okay, please don't anyone hammer before I come back

[Imperium]

Has ft decided his pick?

[Imperium]

I don't really understand how this whole thing works, but nacho said shoot whoever you want but the pick needs to be majority town opinion.

We'd really like a TSO pick.

[Imperium]

FT I swear to god if you pick or shoot mastin you will not only break my heart but you will also undo every bit of good that happened in this game ever.

TSO is a good pick. TSO is a good pick because 1) his "I'm super good if you get me to lylo and that's why I'm town and you're idiots for voting me" is hands down one of the worst and most disgusting arguments I've heard from a player that I respected as much as I respect TSO and also has massively massively obvious scum motivations, especially since he continues to see people let mastin live for what he probably genuinely believes are dumb reasons, and 2) treating mastin's result on him like a scumslip because it was weird is scummy as hell because it ignores the mod mistake. When weird shit that doesn't make sense happens and then the mod is like "oh looks like I made a mistake" and the person claiming weird shit is like "oh wow looks like mod made a mistake" the normal interaction isn't to call out the weird result that makes no sense because it makes no sense

[Imperium]

Now, the reason I'd like to emphasize that the pick is not your choice but who you shoot is: we are choosing our lynches in a weird way in order to maximize town kills/scum kills ratio. Picking someone not widely suspected and shooting someone not widely suspected goes in the face of that and is just you choosing who you want to die instead which wasn't the point of freeing up your ability in the first place.

[Imperium]

And, for clarity: when I say your pick, I mean the person you need lynched in order to refresh your vig shot. When I say shoot, I mean your night vig shot.

[Imperium]

Antihero your far side read also seems uncharacteristically just horrible

[Imperium]

Antihero your far side read also seems uncharacteristically just horrible

fucking Tammy

[Imperium]

Imperium, my apologies for bad arguments/bad play/bad effort - but

no matter how well I play the-result-that-wasn't is going to loom over me and eventually get me hung.

How could I motivate myself to effort after that?

don't think this is actually true

[Imperium]

far side seems town regardless of correctness of your theory

[Imperium]

I don't see the bad guys killing Andrius. It's as simple as that.

i do
and it is as simple as that

also, how do you balance multiple day kills?

give scum a day commute. that's what

no that's dumb

[Imperium]

also, your vig argument cuts both ways

i think tso would be ahead of andy in the vig kill line

except for the whole "hey fourtrouble pick TSO so we can lynch him tomorrow to refresh your vig shot" thing that happened yesterday

[Imperium]

curious how much did he talk about andy's read on him?

Not at all that I can remember or find from a skim through the discussions last night.

Though if you're suggesting this somehow implicates Espeonage and you think he killed off Andrius to silence him or something, I'm just going to smile politely.

The reason we're having this discussion rather than another, more productive one is that when I asked you about your stances on mastin, which I'm definitely more interested in, you didn't actually reply to it.

You didn't ask that at all, but my stance on mastin isn't exactly hard to find. I made it pretty black and white at the end of yesterday.

I won't smile politely

[Imperium]

espeonage

[Imperium]

I'dlike to see what happens to the town without your influence for a while.

Um. Please no.

[Imperium]

espeonage I love you as a person and I enjoy playing mafia with you
I think you're a great guy
I think you're a good person
I think you're an enjoyable and skilled mafia player

[Imperium]

there are so many good things I have to say about you

[Imperium]

I mean if you want some alone time with zelink, nacho and I can go to the kitchen or something.

[Imperium]

There are so many good things I have to say about you, espeonage.

But Jesus fucking Christ don't neighborize zelink when you're in a neighborhood with him right now and please please please don't mention the crazy person reasoning for neighborizing him ever again

[Imperium]

You've hurt me in a way that I've never been hurt before and I think if I'm ever hurt in such a way again I won't be able to love anymore

[Imperium]

You know you're the one that I want.

Did mollie tell you that she was having a hard time reading me in a game so she was threatening to flirt with me to get me to slip one way or the other?

Awe!

I would never use my feminine wiles for something as devious as that, gorgeous.

[Imperium]

so I think I'm just gonna wait for fourtrouble to claim things and then get to lynching whoever he picked

[Imperium]

Vote: TSO

[Imperium]

Vote: TSO

"why don't you play this game"
"oh you're playing"
"vote: tso"

I'm reading what you're saying. You haven't convinced me that you are town yet. I'm not going to treat you with kid gloves just because you're finally trying.

[Imperium]

I would.

It depends on what TSO flips. If he ends up being scum, I think their chances of being scum drastically fall and I would look to Esp as the most likely scum in the Romans.

So you think there is one scum in every neighborhood except Mayans and the reason you think this is because Cephrir got pissy at one of your conversations? Do you see how this line of reasoning seems poorly fleshed out or illogical and why it's disappointing that this is the best you and Anti have produced in the past three days?

[Imperium]

Spoiler: Yesterday's wagon interaction on Peregrine

Vote: Peregrine

I'd love a flashwagon but not on myself or Beast. I don't know why the Vyse wagon derailed - his replace-out doesn't make sense.

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

pedit: my man this question is just fr you

VOTE: peregrine

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

I'm not.

I am, and I think anyone reading his switch from you to the mastin wagon should also be.

nope!
let's lynch peregrine.

I'd love to hear why you're not.

Do we have to lynch Peregrine? He's a completely null read.

yes.

No, I don't particularly feel like Peregrine. My apologies.

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i'll type up a town case when i have time.
why not compromise on a null read? TD isn't getting lynched today.

Hey guys, having problems irl, don't want it to spill over in to game, but don't REALLY have time to post right now. I've looked terrible this game and this move is not going to help. I think cephrir is scum UNVOTE: VOTE: cephrir I'll try to explain this when I get back, promise.

I think Cephrir's scum!

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

Still going with Cephrir-scum!

I do not like this interaction Sam-I-Am. Note to self, Stick-With-Your-Gut, and logic and everyone else be damned. VOTE: Solar Wind

My gut said it was Solar Wind all along!

Ceph is almost certainly town at this point.

Cephrir is so town!

Ceph and solars talk was crappy, Solars vote and unvote stinks of scum trying to make something happen and backing off quickly when it doesn't. Ceph's gambit is town.

Ceph town, Solar still scum.

Hi magua! .

And no, no particular reason to have a read on Rach either way, but in my experience scum rach super lurks, though that may just be rach-rach XD.

I would love to lynch mastin today, that would make me happy, it just doesn't seem likely :/.

I support mastin as well!

Ya know what, fuck it this lynch is more likely than a lynch on Solar XD, why the fuck not. VOTE: mastin

Mastin is scum!

Didn't include points on PV but he supports that dying too.

But, even if you feel it's weak - it's still far better than Peregrine.

Because the case on Peregrine is ??? right now and ??? does not lead to a scum lynch.

At the same time, your case on Peregrine is

still

???, and you've clearly been reading the thread! So I'm waiting to be blown away.

Okay.

I am still waiting for why Peregrine is scum.

Not interested in the D1 lynch of anyone I consider to be lynchbait just because they do lynchbait things. That's what makes them lynchbait.

This includes both PeregrineV and TiphaineDeath.

In particular, I see nothing in TSO's 2265 that says TD-scum to me rather than TD-just-being-his-goddamn-normal-self. If anything, TD jumping his reads over like that makes me more likely to read him town because scum just wouldn't need to.

Do want to vote Imperium, though, for pre-emptive buddying, but this is past RVS so I won't even though I should.

Oh, so basically:

My case on TD is, apparently, bad and so we are not doing it.
Your case on PV is, quite clearly, non-existent and yet we ...are doing it?

I'll admit it - the TD case is solidly mediocre. It's still the best thing we've got right now.

TD is town and so we are not doing it. In addition, the case on him is bad.
Peregrine is ??? at BEST and so we are doing it. There is no case on him.

*bashes head through screen*

What you will see if you click above is the interaction once Nacho started to try to push for a Peregrine lynch yesterday. (yes, he backed off, Peregrine pulled that same exact you should lynch me eventually to help town as a town beloved princess in cap com where Nacho and I were scum, we thought he was doing the same thing.)

But, as Nacho starts pushing Pere and Cephrir jumps on, TSO starts ramping up his lets lynch TD, what's the case on Pere. I included the Magua interaction because it's also twitch worthy for the reasoning. He considers Pere lynchbait so he doesn't want a lynch there BUT rachmarie is also lynchbait so I'm not sure why he considered her a fine lynch, so.

Anyway, didn't pick this up in Peregrine's iso but when TSO complained about trying and not getting a TD lynch, I didn't remember him even pushing TD so I looked and voila.

I think this makes him more likely scum. (I'd say definite scum, but in Once Upon a Winter's Night, I thought Beast could be scum for refusing to help me lynch scum Antihero on day one because he didn't like the case on him.)

Yes you're right tso, our suspicion is solely based on inactivity, and we definitely didn't have a convo about this

[Imperium]

I spent some time looking over Imperium and I don't have anything I'm able to articulate yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were scum.

I would like for you to at least try. It's be very wrong, but it might help me guage a read on you.

[Imperium]

Vote: TSO

"why don't you play this game"
"oh you're playing"
"vote: tso"

I'm reading what you're saying. You haven't convinced me that you are town yet. I'm not going to treat you with kid gloves just because you're finally trying.

I'm not asking you to treat me with kid gloves? I'm saying that as far as I was aware your sole reason for voting me was me being lynchbait/inactive. Now that that's no longer the case, I have no idea why you're voting me anymore.

1) When I suspect someone for inactivity, it's because I suspect them for coasting through a majority of the game because they can get away with it. Starting to be active in a step in the right direction, but it doesn't immediately erase all suspicion.

2) I am also suspicious of how you pushed the mastin lynch yesterday as an obvious scum push that everyone were idiots for not understanding: it seemed like you were latching on a contradiction in order to get a mislynch even though the contradiction wasn't actually scummy thanks to circumstances.

3) I also really didn't like your "why should I post when I have a ghost guilty on me?" plea: it wasn't the reason for your earlier inactivity and it didn't really seem like a genuine reason for your inactivity at any point.

4) I also don't like your play in general of shooting down the case on you but not really taking initiative elsewhere: it's easy but it doesn't actually make any sort of progress towards a town win.

[Imperium]

I don't understand why ZZZX is 100% confirmed to you, mastin: all I got was that he targeted you with an ability that was confirmed (what ability?) and that he hasn't used a night action since D1.

[Imperium]

Giving vezok or Zelink or people with claimed night actions additionally seems like a stronger play than giving bees to random people: the "super cop" part of the role seems significantly stronger than the "passive tracker" portion of your role and giving utility to super cop while taking away small utility from passive tracker seems far more optimal than what's happening now.

[Imperium]

My read on vezok: if mastin's telling the truth, which I really need to think about, your theory about neighbourhoods makes vezok confirmed-scum. I am not scumreading vezok on his play, I agree with a lot of what he's saying, like his townread on ace.

Do you agree with the neighborhood theory? Why are you townreading ace?

[Imperium]

I wouldn't, no.

[Imperium]

Okay. So why do you believe in the neighborhood theory, TSO?

[Imperium]

When I suspect someone for inactivity, it's because I suspect them for coasting through a majority of the game because they can get away with it. Starting to be active in a step in the right direction, but it doesn't immediately erase all suspicion.

Well, I've picked up my activity, so as far as I'm concerned this point is dying a quick death.

I am also suspicious of how you pushed the mastin lynch yesterday as an obvious scum push that everyone were idiots for not understanding: it seemed like you were latching on a contradiction in order to get a mislynch even though the contradiction wasn't actually scummy thanks to circumstances.

I was just attempting to make mastin be held accountable because the "one more day" thing wasn't cutting it with me - I fail to see how this is scummy.

I also really didn't like your "why should I post when I have a ghost guilty on me?" plea: it wasn't the reason for your earlier inactivity and it didn't really seem like a genuine reason for your inactivity at any point.

It's still true, though. If there was an accidental mod result which pointed to you being scum and you were town, it's quite demoralising. Do you disagree with this?

I also don't like your play in general of shooting down the case on you but not really taking initiative elsewhere: it's easy but it doesn't actually make any sort of progress towards a town win.

It's impossible to take initiative elsewhere until you can defuse the pressure on you because people are all too happy to vote me, absolve themselves of responsibility for the flip, feel slightly bad about the flip and move on. I'm having to prioritise my survival over pushing other people right now.

1) I don't understand your point here. Are you saying all you're waiting for is death?

2) Calling mastin akin to confirmed and the "ohohoho" posts didn't really seem like trying to hold him accountable, they seemed like they were aimed to get him lynched. If you were trying to hold him accountable, why did you focus on the mod error more than you focused on him delaying yet another day?

3) If people were lynching you as a result of that, but they weren't.

4) it's not impossible to take initiative with pressure on you unless you're in the bottom 5% of players who feel obligated to respond to every piece of suspicion on then. It seems remarkably easy to take initiative especially when that pressure is composed entirely of shitty reasons or no reasons at all.

[Imperium]

Okay. So why do you believe in the neighborhood theory, TSO?

Could you do me a favor and quickly remind me what your scum reads are outside of TSO, please?

Skybird, TAOS, some of {Vezok, Heartless, TWIE}

[Imperium]

Cephrir's reaction to it.

It's also a pretty easy thing to throw a gigantic fit about when it's stupid reasoning in the first place. I throw fits about things that are stupid as scum because they're stupid and free passion points. I don't see why Cephrir wouldn't do the same.

[Imperium]

That's the way my reads fall out. There's also the possibility that there are more scum in certain neighborhoods and no scum in others. Having your reads because of an assumption that could be correct (but hey, probably isn't) is stupid because it biases you to making bad calls down the road.

[Imperium]

Like, "one scum in the neighborhood" assumption in FFX led to town mislynching a grand total of four times for a net result of zero scum.

[Imperium]

You can spread them out pretty thin or cluster them together in most scenarios and your game will be balanced, all it depends on is what mindspace dram was when he made the game and legitimately nothing else. If the game balance was so that there could only be one scum per neighborhood and that assumption could be safely made, there would be a possibility for two dayvigs and a lynch hitting scum, 12 confirmed town players being created, and the game being over on D1.

[Imperium]

It's not something that's stupid to think about, but it is something stupid to base reads around or even calculate into reads, which makes it useless from my point of view.

[Imperium]

Better assumptions to make: there is likely only one neighborhood with two group-scum in it. There are likely no more than 2 all-town neighborhoods. There isn't a neighborhood with 3+ scum in it.

[Imperium]

But you're making the assumption that there are no outliers at all and that's just a bad assumption to make.

[Imperium]

Why?

[Imperium]

It seems like another bad assumption to make that a lack of paranoia automatically means incorrect reads.

[Imperium]

But you're making the assumption that there are no outliers at all and that's just a bad assumption to make.

It's less of an assumption and more of a pet theory for me. ^_^

Then why does it seem like it's controlling your reads to a pretty significant extent?

[Imperium]

I'd also like to talk about a couple of Skybird posts:

UNVOTE:

Right now we can't lynch Ozgin because that takes down two potential townies.

VOTE: TD

To me, he is the more scummy of the two.

To me, this vote makes absolutely no sense unless Skybird was townreading Cephrir: she had been keeping her vote on Beast/Ozgin for a pretty long amount of time and never even considered moving it, which suggests that she finds Ozgin pretty scummy, right? But then as soon as Cephrir is loverized with Ozgin TD is scummier than both of them, which is :/.

TiphaineDeath (9): Mastin2, Xombie, theaceofspades, farside22, Vezokpiraka, Ooba, The Mask, Ankamius, Ozgin, Cephrir

A question for anyone who wishes to answer.

Is anyone assuming this is an all-town wagon?
Do people think I'm being bussed and, if so, by who? Since dramonic won't tell me, perhaps one of you can.
If I did happen to be town (if it's even possible to imagine such a scenario), who would be scum here?

Welcome Zel1ink.

No, I don't think it's an all-town wagon.
Your spot has been null/leaning scum to me so if I'm right, yes they are bussing.
Ace, Ooba, Ank, and Cephrir are all suspicious to me.

But then this post comes a little way later, meaning that two of her suspects at the time claim to have been neighborized with one another and she... backs off? That doesn't make sense to me, versus the whole unvoting to save Cephrir scenario.

[Imperium]

It's not particularly synergistic nor is there a notable degree of interaction in the main thread.

It doesn't look like a town bloc, swim like a town bloc, or quack like a town bloc.

Why do either of these things matter?

[Imperium]

Then why does it seem like it's controlling your reads to a pretty significant extent?

Because I find it the most aesthetically pleasing and psychologically satisfying.

Also because I think part of the problem in this game is that people have this delusion they're in an all town neighborhood.

You think the problem this game is people thinking they're in all-town neighborhoods as opposed to a player tearing the game apart to such an extent where he got banned and that experience making it uncomfortable for everyone to post and no one really recovering from that?

Seems like, wait for it, yet another bad assumption.

[Imperium]

I'm receptive to people in my neighborhood being scum. I don't really think there's a chance of Zelink being scum for a pretty big number of reasons, haven't really seen reasons for Espeonage being scum. People seem to agree with that reasoning since they seem to end up guessing we're the scum in the neighborhood because they're too lazy to read our posts.

[Imperium]

If you adopt the position of someone who can't see what's going on in the neighborhood, it looks strange.

Because...?

[Imperium]

If you adopt the position of someone who can't see what's going on in the neighborhood, it looks strange.

Because...?

OK, now you're just being obtuse.

It makes no sense for you to think that we aren't an all town neighborhood because we aren't interacting "properly" with each other.

[Imperium]

Especially when your neighborhood interacted properly with itself when cephrir was still alive, but that obviously didn't make your neighborhood all town.

[Imperium]

You seem to believe that there is one scum in each neighborhood except maybe one: no more, no less. I feel that's a bad assumption because there's no reason to make the assumption other than it being aesthetically and psychologically pleasing. Making an assumption because it's aesthetically pleasing is stupid because dram is not likely to have the same beliefs that you do about aesthetically pleasing or not. The assumption because its psychologically pleasing is dumb because 1) town isn't doing that badly, 2) that's one possible reason in a sea of many possible reasons and there's not a reason that's why the game is being so fucked up over any of the sea of reasons, and 3) the psychologically pleasing reason could be directed into any of three neighborhoods, and you direct it into ours for little to no reason.

The other reason you believe our neighborhood isn't all town is because we don't have "synergy" and because we aren't interacting in thread. This assumption makes absolutely no sense whatsoever: people's interactions with one another don't make them town, their individual play makes then town. This assumption makes even less sense when the Egyptian neighborhood had a ton of synergy and in thread interaction when it wasn't all town but a considerable amount less when scum in the neighborhood died and the chances of the neighborhood being all town increased considerably.

If you have suspicion in our neighborhood, pick someone you suspect and make a case. If you don't actually have suspicions in our neighborhood but keep pushing suspicion here because of your neighborhood assumption, then stop because it's a shitty assumption to make.

[Imperium]

i think the most damning evidence against twie is the meh read on ceph when confronted on it and the subsequent dicking around and eventual dropping it altogether

I don't think there's really anything good about TWIE's play but I'm still having trouble letting go of the Blonde "I can make myself confirmed town" thing, which would be a pretty impressive play from newscum, who, in his last game as scum, just sort of sat around and let himself get lynched.

[Imperium]

my impression of vezok when i was looking over this game earlier was that it would be a really ballsy gambit to do what he did with ceph

I agree.

[Imperium]

Page 11-13

* The one thing that does bother me about xombie is the "Are you overcompensating" post, the more I look at it. That shit's not good.

*Imperium won't explain 73. I also didn't quite get that post tbh.

* 306 is probably the laziest Vote Count I've ever seen.

* in 310, Bitmap sees what I saw, and apparently nobody else cared about. I like Bitmap

* The more I see Imperium and Solar Wind react, the more that fight at the beginning seems like a fabrication.

* Imperium passes off a serious post about him as a joke.

* I guess Metal Sonic is a daycop---

WAIT A SECOND HOLD THE PHONE

He claimed something completely different in our hood.

There's also this + the next two posts from aeronaut which adds to the slot's towniness by a considerable degree.

[Imperium]

brantz posts to seem pretty weak overall

[Imperium]

my impression of vezok when i was looking over this game earlier was that it would be a really ballsy gambit to do what he did with ceph

I agree.

lol

i was going to follow up this thought with:

"but i wouldn't put it past him, ESPECIALLY if ceph coached him to do it."

ehhhhhh
coaching arguments are generally pretty weak to me

[Imperium]

If he shot you, would you die?

I have no problem full claiming for you.

Where is TWIE claiming for Skybird? I might just be a stupid person, but I can't find it in his ISO anywhere

[Imperium]

I'd also like to talk about a couple of Skybird posts:

UNVOTE:

Right now we can't lynch Ozgin because that takes down two potential townies.

VOTE: TD

To me, he is the more scummy of the two.

To me, this vote makes absolutely no sense unless Skybird was townreading Cephrir: she had been keeping her vote on Beast/Ozgin for a pretty long amount of time and never even considered moving it, which suggests that she finds Ozgin pretty scummy, right? But then as soon as Cephrir is loverized with Ozgin TD is scummier than both of them, which is :/.

TiphaineDeath (9): Mastin2, Xombie, theaceofspades, farside22, Vezokpiraka, Ooba, The Mask, Ankamius, Ozgin, Cephrir

A question for anyone who wishes to answer.

Is anyone assuming this is an all-town wagon?
Do people think I'm being bussed and, if so, by who? Since dramonic won't tell me, perhaps one of you can.
If I did happen to be town (if it's even possible to imagine such a scenario), who would be scum here?

Welcome Zel1ink.

No, I don't think it's an all-town wagon.
Your spot has been null/leaning scum to me so if I'm right, yes they are bussing.
Ace, Ooba, Ank, and Cephrir are all suspicious to me.

But then this post comes a little way later, meaning that two of her suspects at the time claim to have been neighborized with one another and she... backs off? That doesn't make sense to me, versus the whole unvoting to save Cephrir scenario.

It's really not that hard to understand. Note the word potential. I wasn't sure if Ozgin or Cephrir were scum or town. Lynching Ozgin meant taking down two people. There was a chance that they could have both been town. There was also a chance they could have both been scum. At that point I wasn't willing to risk loosing two town, assuming they were both town. Since Farside did the gladiate thing, there were only two choices left to choose from. I chose the one that seemed more scummy at that time.

The next post is 24 hours (approximately) later. While I might not post much, I've been here every day reading and re-reading. I'd been going back and forth on Cephrir trying to determine if he was scum or town. it shows in my posts.

This thought process doesn't make any sort of sense to me, though. You were willing to lose one person you didn't think was all that scummy over two people that you thought were scummy because you might lose two town? Why? This doesn't exactly make a whole lot of sense, considering scum death D1 and no death N1 and scum death D2 :/

And why did you care about maybe losing two townies here and not whenever vigs claimed shots or when we were unlocking FT's night vig yesterday?

Also, what was your rationale for offering yourself up for FT's day vig D2?

[Imperium]

I was walking up the stairs, and it came to me that my set-up spec was wrong. It's not a scum in every neighbourhood, dramonic wouldn't break his game that easily.

Why did you even make that assumption in the first place...?

[Imperium]

I was also expecting things resembling cases from TSO, but no such luck. Why?

[Imperium]

Nacho oms so awesome for picking up my slack and posting and looking all town and shit. I meant to but I had a busy day, it also snowed all day long and it was glorious and now everything is covered it white like it should be! Also, I was busy with dissertation defense graduation submission stuff so cross y our fingers this nightmare will be settled and I can graduate in May!

Anyway. I won't alswas be this b use so I will start posting! I had a couple points I want to make but their in their formulating stage.

Also my sleeping pill is kicking in and the world is a blurry mess but the keyboard feels neat.

[Imperium]

Oh wait I forgot. Nacho thank yu for being awesome and posting so townie while I've been slacking off and busy.

You are a good man nachomamma8!

[Imperium]

But that's not what I asked - I asked why you didn't openly say you were doing this on a policy basis, like town would always do. You never did that.

"Like town would always do".
Town don't always do anything, sorry.

[Imperium]

oh, and also. two town docs already flipped. there's that too.

This isn't actually a good reasoning for your lynch as you already pointed out? I also don't understand why you're even making this vote in the first place.

[Imperium]

and being gung ho about the greeks being all town when someone said it was mostly just beast posting in the hood pt. and going back on that for consensus wagon tso here for little reason.

vezok seems to make declarations for little to no reason. Finding out that he doesn't really have good reasons for his declarations doesn't really affect how I view his alignment.

[Imperium]

Who's even voting me?

Metal Sonic: He has literally no idea what he's doing ever.
Imperium: Their reason for voting me is awful and shitty and they're probably scum for it.
ZeL1nk: If I was mod-confirmed as an Innocent Child ZeL1nk wouldn't believe it; he's not in the tunnel, he's burrowed into the foundations.

You haven't really gone into addressing my reasons for voting you all that much, which would be help me determine if my reasons were actually bad or not.

[Imperium]

Who's even voting me?

Metal Sonic: He has literally no idea what he's doing ever.
Imperium: Their reason for voting me is awful and shitty and they're probably scum for it.
ZeL1nk: If I was mod-confirmed as an Innocent Child ZeL1nk wouldn't believe it; he's not in the tunnel, he's burrowed into the foundations.

You haven't really gone into addressing my reasons for voting you all that much, which would be help me determine if my reasons were actually bad or not.

I am fairly sure I have addressed them.

Imperium: You're scum for deflecting the lynch off Pere late d1.
TSO: Pere was a null read and so a shot in the dark, that's why I didn't support this.

And that's it.

These weren't my reasons.

[Imperium]

When I suspect someone for inactivity, it's because I suspect them for coasting through a majority of the game because they can get away with it. Starting to be active in a step in the right direction, but it doesn't immediately erase all suspicion.

Well, I've picked up my activity, so as far as I'm concerned this point is dying a quick death.

I am also suspicious of how you pushed the mastin lynch yesterday as an obvious scum push that everyone were idiots for not understanding: it seemed like you were latching on a contradiction in order to get a mislynch even though the contradiction wasn't actually scummy thanks to circumstances.

I was just attempting to make mastin be held accountable because the "one more day" thing wasn't cutting it with me - I fail to see how this is scummy.

I also really didn't like your "why should I post when I have a ghost guilty on me?" plea: it wasn't the reason for your earlier inactivity and it didn't really seem like a genuine reason for your inactivity at any point.

It's still true, though. If there was an accidental mod result which pointed to you being scum and you were town, it's quite demoralising. Do you disagree with this?

I also don't like your play in general of shooting down the case on you but not really taking initiative elsewhere: it's easy but it doesn't actually make any sort of progress towards a town win.

It's impossible to take initiative elsewhere until you can defuse the pressure on you because people are all too happy to vote me, absolve themselves of responsibility for the flip, feel slightly bad about the flip and move on. I'm having to prioritise my survival over pushing other people right now.

1) I don't understand your point here. Are you saying all you're waiting for is death?

2) Calling mastin akin to confirmed and the "ohohoho" posts didn't really seem like trying to hold him accountable, they seemed like they were aimed to get him lynched. If you were trying to hold him accountable, why did you focus on the mod error more than you focused on him delaying yet another day?

3) If people were lynching you as a result of that, but they weren't.

4) it's not impossible to take initiative with pressure on you unless you're in the bottom 5% of players who feel obligated to respond to every piece of suspicion on then. It seems remarkably easy to take initiative especially when that pressure is composed entirely of shitty reasons or no reasons at all.

[Imperium]

townreading tso

too much groupthink
too little resistance to the wagon

the stuff imperium pointed out looks kind of bad but it's also kind of circumstantial

Remember when mastin read AP based on wagon dynamics and it turned out to be wrong? I remember that. That was frustrating.

[Imperium]

if you keep reading, i take it back

i know you've got to get your little shitty, smart ass snipes in there though, nacho so go ahead

it's not my intention to be an asshole and I'm sorry if I'm coming across that way.

[Imperium]

I don't know the relevance of that question. I'd assume your scumbuddy would take whatever stance they were most comfortable with taking, which probably includes a bunch of bussing and a bunch of ignoring you.

[Imperium]

townreading tso

too much groupthink
too little resistance to the wagon

the stuff imperium pointed out looks kind of bad but it's also kind of circumstantial

A more significant question I'd rather ask here is what stuff was circumstantiaI and why that makes it incorrect. I feel you're townreading TSO because he's active and aggressive instead of because of what he's done: I think he can fake active and aggressive easily as scum, but I don't think he is particularly likely to do a good majority of these things as town.

[Imperium]

If my scumbuddies are bussing me, who are they? They'd need to be getting relevant towncred for doing so, and the only ones who might would be MS/ZeL1nk. Do you think I'm aligned with them?

No. That statement assumes optimal scum play, which is an assumption I'm not currently making.

[Imperium]

If, on the other hand, they're ignoring me... I fail to understand why they'd throw a scumbuddy out the window and get absolutely nothing for doing it when 2 members are already down.

It's an awkward position to be in. People don't play optimally when they're in awkward positions and sometimes people don't even play optimal in general.

[Imperium]

If you legitimately think pikari is scum for other reasons, then state them, because what you're pushing right now makes about as much sense as people who wear hats indoors. There's no sun! What are you doing? Don't tell me it's a fashion statement.

TELL ME ZELINK, WHY IS HE VOTING TSO RIGHT NOW WHEN HE'S BEEN SWEARING UP AND DOWN HIS NEIGHBORHOOD IS ALL TOWN

OH, IS IT ALL SO THAT HE KNOWS WHO TO "SHEEP" WHEN TSO FLIPS?

/WINKWINKWINK NOTHING GOING ON THERE

I don't find it particularly unlikely that vezok would get bored of waiting for a lynch and vote someone to set himself up for an "I told you so" the next day. His actions occasionally lack consistency not because he's scum, but because he doesn't approach the game the same way many other players do and instead ends up doing things on impulse (like TD, but smaller scale and less bad).

[Imperium]

You have got to see why I'm scumreading you: your reasons to call me scum are just reaching across chasms.

How so?

[Imperium]

Because I don't have an entire scumteam pegged and ready as soon as you ask for one? Because that is absolute bullshit.

[Imperium]

Why did Peregrine lurk so much Day 1 if we were scumpartners? Why did I bus him day 1? Why is TWIE lurking if he's my scum partner and we are behind? Why, in your iteration of the scumteam, is everyone not posting shit but I'm hauling ass and have been hauling ass for the entire game?

[Imperium]

oh I must be town your case on me is horrible teehee

[Imperium]

You have got to see why I'm scumreading you: your reasons to call me scum are just reaching across chasms.

How so?

Because I don't have an entire scumteam pegged and ready as soon as you ask for one? Because that is absolute bullshit.

No.
I laid out there how the current gamestate doesn't actually make sense for TSO-scum.
Your response was "oh well guess scum ain't playing optimally".

I am -trying- to take the initiative with this game. No-one has actually done so today because everyone seems to think a TSO lynch is happening. It's not on the cards today. It's even more difficult to take the initiative when you have to constantly field attacks from members of the Church of Holy Duality of Jesus and Confirmation Bias (ZeL1nk, MS). Yet I'm still doing it. And your response to it is "well he can do that as scum too."

I'm waiting for you to take initiative with the game. You still haven't. You keep calling the case on you shit without reasponding to it, which us a problem. Your current push doesn't actually have any reasons behind it, only "he could be scum because he doesn't make sense", which shows a lack of critical thinking. Yes, you can do this as scum. You've done a lot of things I consider to be scummy and that don't make sense from you as town. If you can show me that these things do make sense from you as town (and much more sense than they do from you as scum), I will back off. If you make meaningful pushes on people I think could possibly be (or probably are) scum, I will back off. I won't back off because you tell me the case is bad. I won't back off because you're complaining people are pushing you too hard for little reason, I don't give a shit about that. And, I won't back off because "gamestate implies you aren't scum" because the gamestate is stalled to shit and that affects very dramatically how much resistance is shown and how difficult a lynch is to push through.

[Imperium]

Why did Peregrine lurk so much Day 1 if we were scumpartners? Why did I bus him day 1? Why is TWIE lurking if he's my scum partner and we are behind? Why, in your iteration of the scumteam, is everyone not posting shit but I'm hauling ass and have been hauling ass for the entire game?

Ask yourself these questions about me?

I asked those questions because they're dumb questions to ask. You not having answers to those questions doesn't mean jack shit about my alignment: lacking the full picture doesn't mean you don't have pieces to it.

[Imperium]

It has never been particularly clear to me how in fact you knew PV was scum; it certainly didn't seem like it was from information solely in this thread. Whether that's from both being scum or having extensive meta, I do not know. Neither of those resources were at hand for me.

I pushed PV because he was useless and I had town reads elsewhere. I didn't have a particularly strong scum read on him.

[Imperium]

I don't find it particularly unlikely that vezok would get bored of waiting for a lynch and vote someone to set himself up for an "I told you so" the next day. His actions occasionally lack consistency not because he's scum, but because he doesn't approach the game the same way many other players do and instead ends up doing things on impulse (like TD, but smaller scale and less bad).

ok...

you can play devils advocate on any of these and most stuff can cut both ways if you really want it to. but i think the lynch for today is hardly decided yet and if you REALLY wanted a mastin/us lynch you would keep going. this hardly seems like the time you would fold, especially with so many people not voting and sitting on their hands.

Trying to push a lynch when everybody is just sitting on their hands refusing to do anything is much more disheartening than pushing a lynch when everyone is active, even if they're actively disagreeing with you.

[Imperium]

I'm not intending to play devil's advocate: I'm trying to point out that your approach to vezok is flawed and your read is suffering as a result.

[Imperium]

My push on vezok has multiple prongs. Here's one:

-I do not understand why vezok thought our hood was town. More specifically, me. No idea why. I do not think vezok wanted members of our hood flipping. I think that the reason everyone is so gung-ho on their neighbourhood being town is because town believe it and scum worry about their neighbourhood being culled and exposing them. I do not see any reason for vezok to believe it, ergo the scum-explanation for that action is a lot more likely to me.

Can you see vezok-town reading House and Beast as town in your neighborhood?

[Imperium]

That's... a strange argument to make. There are plenty of egregious misreads in most games I've played in, there are plenty of reads made with not enough information... Your posting seems lazy, nonchalant early game which I can see some people viewing as town. I'd also imagine that you posted something in the neighborhood, meaning that you could post something that could be town read, meaning I have trouble understanding why the vezok read on you would be unacceptable.

[Imperium]

"Or equivalent in this case".

[Imperium]

Even if it was, how did vezok go on to declare his neighbourhood was town if he didn't have a

strong

read on me? Maybe it was a mild townread, somehow, but not a strong one.

Why did he need a strong read on you to declare the neighborhood all town?

[Imperium]

Even if it was, how did vezok go on to declare his neighbourhood was town if he didn't have a

strong

read on me? Maybe it was a mild townread, somehow, but not a strong one.

Why did he need a strong read on you to declare the neighborhood all town?

What?

I can have a mild town read on someone and I won't really have a problem with calling them town. Why is that approach unacceptable coming from vezok?

[Imperium]

I guess I'm having trouble piecing together my thoughts in a more lucid manner, so gonna take a break instead of continuing this.

[Imperium]

Because when people like mastin were vouching for their neighbourhoods, they were saying things like "ZZZX is 99% town, so is Xombie. No lynching them. Ever." It was made clear that if you were going to vouch for your neighbourhood you needed some pretty cast-iron reasons for doing so.

Vezok may or may not have had a mild townread on me somehow. If he did, I still don't see town-him just casually telling everyone it was an all-town neighbourhood like he did. With a minor townread on me? I just can't believe he'd do that. He's not wildly impulsive like that.

This makes no sense at all. You're essentially saying because mastin overestimated his read early, someone who is notorious for overestimating reads and giving reads on people who haven't even posted yet, everyone who declares their reads has to have that same intensity.

I don't believe you believe that.

Your scum read on vezok sounds convenient.

I would like you to explain vezoks motivations in claiming to save his partner day two in the way he did. Note: I never believed he was the cause for the missing night kill night one, but the way in which he did it didn't sound to me like someone going oh hey partner I saved you wink wink.

Zelink brings up a good point when he points out that cephrir obviously role copped mask night one from the way he interacted with him day two. Therefore, the scum team would have known he was a modified doc. So is it your contention, that knowing the scum team planned to kill mask the next might, as is indicated by cephrir's role, that vezok decided to also claim a doc type role and have scrutiny brought upon himself due to multiple roles? Also note I absolutely believe iterations of similar roles exist, and heartless's? Point that he could be scum based on there already being a doc flip and so he's suspicious there is complete crap when taken in conjunction with the fact that theyve pointed out that two town roles with similar passives have already flipped. (If that wasn't heartless, sorry, I'm in the middle of several things and tried to quickly get caught up.)

One reason I don't buy the vezok is scum who claimed doc on his partner is because not very long ago in serum and steel, one of the reasons why falcon eventually got lynched was because he was a scum doc and vezok was the town doc and people didn't think two of the same role could exist on the same side. I have a hard time believing that vezok!scum claimed doc knowing that a) mask was a modified doc, b) he was not the reason for the missing night kill and knew it, c) claimed to save his partner - quite frankly I don't imagine vezok is that ballsy as scum, and d) opened himself up for a counter claim knowing it would end up getting him in the process. I don't see the reward there at all.

[Imperium]

When I suspect someone for inactivity, it's because I suspect them for coasting through a majority of the game because they can get away with it. Starting to be active in a step in the right direction, but it doesn't immediately erase all suspicion.

Well, I've picked up my activity, so as far as I'm concerned this point is dying a quick death.

I am also suspicious of how you pushed the mastin lynch yesterday as an obvious scum push that everyone were idiots for not understanding: it seemed like you were latching on a contradiction in order to get a mislynch even though the contradiction wasn't actually scummy thanks to circumstances.

I was just attempting to make mastin be held accountable because the "one more day" thing wasn't cutting it with me - I fail to see how this is scummy.

I also really didn't like your "why should I post when I have a ghost guilty on me?" plea: it wasn't the reason for your earlier inactivity and it didn't really seem like a genuine reason for your inactivity at any point.

It's still true, though. If there was an accidental mod result which pointed to you being scum and you were town, it's quite demoralising. Do you disagree with this?

I also don't like your play in general of shooting down the case on you but not really taking initiative elsewhere: it's easy but it doesn't actually make any sort of progress towards a town win.

It's impossible to take initiative elsewhere until you can defuse the pressure on you because people are all too happy to vote me, absolve themselves of responsibility for the flip, feel slightly bad about the flip and move on. I'm having to prioritise my survival over pushing other people right now.

1) I don't understand your point here. Are you saying all you're waiting for is death?

2) Calling mastin akin to confirmed and the "ohohoho" posts didn't really seem like trying to hold him accountable, they seemed like they were aimed to get him lynched. If you were trying to hold him accountable, why did you focus on the mod error more than you focused on him delaying yet another day?

3) If people were lynching you as a result of that, but they weren't.

4) it's not impossible to take initiative with pressure on you unless you're in the bottom 5% of players who feel obligated to respond to every piece of suspicion on then. It seems remarkably easy to take initiative especially when that pressure is composed entirely of shitty reasons or no reasons at all.

Imperium, what do you think my scumbuddies said to me in the QT last night?

This is a genuine question, I'd like to know what stances you think it's likely my scumbuddies are taking on me.

Tso - you say you don't like my reasons for scum reading you and that they're drivel, which is fine, and I'll address that in a moment, but why then when nacho reiterated his problems with you do you not address it, and then engage him with this pointless drivel of a deflection?

Are you allergic to actually addressing the points against you? I think you know the questions you began engaging in were pointless and distractions designed to make you look engaged.

[Imperium]

So, tso, when you characterize my actual valid points against you based on your behavior day one, are you trying to say that it's not a way you would behave as scum?

Because in open 580:tit for tat while both of your partners were being run up day one, you couldn't understand the cases on them and instead started tunneling and attacking town who were pushing to lynch them. Then after one of your partners was lynched day one and the other vigged night one, you started vehemently attacking and tunneling very obvious town who had pegged you as scum, in a similar manner as you have towards us. Their very valid arguments against you were bad, and they were bad, and you looked to someone who was townreading you and somewhat buddied them to get them to save you.

So, color me unimpressed when I see you behaving in an extremely similar fashion as another game in which you were scum. I've seen you as town before, this doesn't feel like it. Quite frankly I couldn't give two fucks how much trust you have in my slot. Were town, how you feel about us doesn't matter to me. How we feel about you does matter to me, and you've not done one tiny little itty bitty thing to make me think you're town. If you want us to back off, stop with the pointless distractions and weak questions you know don't go anywhere and aren't helpful and actually act town.

And in the mean time feel free to answer a question. Where do you think the missing scum kill went last night?

[Imperium]

This game feels weird for some reason. If I had to guess, it's probably because of scum hardcore lurking and town fighting amongst each other.
- TheWayItEnds ( 5 days 22 hours )
- Espeonage ( 2 days 11 hours )
- theaceofspades ( 8 days 0 hours )

Theaceospades probably is scum.

The way it ends maaaaaaaybe but not convinced.

Espy probably isn't.

[Imperium]

Ankamius, TSO, theaceofspades, farside22, ooba, Heartless, TheWayItEnds, Andrius

i agree
i also agree w/ this order

the game will end before you reach farside

What happened to this view of the game?

looking more

my desire to lynch anyone not in the roman neighborhood is at exactly zero

I'd really appreciate you articulating why. I told you I'd like you to try to articulate why you'd wouldn't be surprised if we flipped scum, but I don't think you did.

I spent some time looking over Imperium and I don't have anything I'm able to articulate yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were scum.

There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.

What type of skepticism do you think there should be in our nieghborhood that you aren't seeing?

I have a really hard time accepting that both of the above quotes are actually true statements.

[Imperium]

Vezok ... this day phase was going along quite slowly and without much of any merit UNTIL the past 24 hours. Are you really trying to argue otherwise?

@ZeL1nk & @ooba - There is a very specific reason I want to know

for sure

that TSO is scum, before he dies. I do understand that it appears most of the game doesn't feel like waiting, and if nobody is swayed by me saying I have good and sound reasons, then I shall simply try and find another way to do what I want to do with TSO. I will vote for him if the people I view as most probably town believe that's the right play today.

If the only benefit we get from you getting a guilty result on TSO is that you three are confirmed town, the benefit isn't worth it thanks to you three not being lynched anytime soon anyways. It's far more advantageous for you to get a guilty result outside of TSO or an innocent outside of TSO than it is for us to make a worse lynch today just so you three can confirm yourselves.

[Imperium]

actually... why is vezok a doctor alive??

Scum has had one successful kill so far. It was on a doctor.

[Imperium]

Yeah, MS, I'm the last scum. This game's set-up was 21-3-1 with multiple town vigs.

There is no emoticon onsite to accurately portray my level of disdain.

@TSO what do you think about his comment about the team color? do you think it might indicate a possible slip of a 2nd team ms by any chance?

I don't think so, ZZZX, the kills every night just don't add up if that was the case.

its true about that but that post honestly pings my radar

like what if the 2nd team had a dayvig instead of a night kill?

also I have not seen any time when he killed anyone. so i have an interesting question. his identity isnt revealed in the daykill right?

Metal Sonic being second team doesn't really make sense: he would have more access to kills if that were the case.

[Imperium]

aaand that was all the questions you've asked in the last 30 posts of yours or so. did I miss anything?

[Imperium]

Inconsistencies are an important part of the reason I find TSO to be scum because it seems like whenever the inconsistencies do end up coming out, there seems to be scum motivation behind them while town motivation is questionable.

The two big examples of this for me was his treatment of mastin and the nebulous guilty ish thing against him and the reasons he gave for his lurking.

Yesterday, when mastin was calling for one more day and also had the track on TSO that ended up being a mod error, TSO started railing against Mastin hard. As scum, this is a necessity to reduce your chances of being lynched: you need to discredit the person claiming a guilty on you and the easiest way to do this was by calling them scum. I believe his push was irrational because mastin claimed the faulty result, then claimed it was a mod error, then dramonic confirmed it was a mod error, and then no one claimed any mod errors of their own. This sort of scenario is the kind of thing where it suddenly becomes incredibly likely that person is telling the truth about their result (there aren't really that many things that could have happened), but TSO kept pushing like the mod error wasn't confirmed and mastin claimed said result out of context. I believe he did that because, as scum, he had to. He believed the nebulous guilty would get him lynched otherwise and he viewed his only hope of squirming out was by getting mastin lynched. When it eventually became clear that obviously wasn't the case, TSO stopped pushing. You'll notice today he didn't push for mastin's claim and took no interest when he did claim: that's an inconsistency that suggests scum to me.

[Imperium]

I wouldn't trust a cop result on TSO even if it was wasted on him; I think he's been specifically asking for it for a reason, and it's not because he's town.

If mastin is truly an unlimited cop, scum have at least one way of getting around this. It's probably TSO.

Investigate someone else. After TSO is lynched.

Look at this shit.

I noticed in responding to this post you ignored posts Post 7757, [7758][/post], and Post 7759.

I'm not above just posting them again cuz STYLE, but there were actual questions in each of those posts for you.

[Imperium]

Post 7758

[Imperium]

And I hate vezok play so much I am about to vote him..

You can feel free to respond to Post 7757.

That's actually an open invitation. Anyone voting or wanting to vote vezok is free to respond to that post.

Also, where do you people think the missing night kill went last night and how are you skipping over the fact that tso was blocked last night?

[Imperium]

Oh mastin - can you clarify how zzzx is confirmed town to you? As I understand it, you targetted him for bees and then you used it that night as a soft track and didn't track him anywhere, so you've concluded that makes him town? Did you use it as an investigate?

Why didn't you investigate tso night two after giving him bees?

[Imperium]

I have to admit, it's tempting to just tell you lot to fuck off and lynch me if you want. There's literally a mountain of shit I'm expected to respond to every fucking day and it never ends up changing anything.

It doesn't change anything because you

never actually respond

to most of the stuff you're asked.

This. Also, you don't have to respond to anything against you, I certainly don't give a shit. But when you halfheartefly respond to defenses and you don't provide cases and you continuously find some excuse to blame everyone else for your shitty play?

No.

[Imperium]

how are you skipping over the fact that tso was blocked last night?

TSO was blocked yesterday night?

Yes.

[Imperium]

And I hate vezok play so much I am about to vote him..

You can feel free to respond to Post 7757.

That's actually an open invitation. Anyone voting or wanting to vote vezok is free to respond to that post.

Also, where do you people think the missing night kill went last night and how are you skipping over the fact that tso was blocked last night?

his claim can (or cant) be to protect a partner

i honestly dont think metal has a partner after thinking but thinking further i believe vezok's claim is protecting him for one. Also I am sure the scum must have some way to go throu the countless freaking docs we have this game which would take out metal who have done alot to them.

so you see both vezok and metal look fishy. I am honestly scared of metal because he is a great scum player and he CAN and MIGHT trick us all and win this if he was scum/3rd

Anyone can claim anything.

That's not my point. I don't think it makes sense for scum!vezok to have made that claim. I'm interested in why people think it does.

Also, if you *don't* think that vezok protected metal sonic from the scum night kill, which you obviously don't or you wouldn't be thinking both are suspicious. What do you think happened to the scum night kill last night and why are you ignoring the fact that TSO was blocked on a night there was no scum kill???

[Imperium]

I keep hearing people say that and I must have missed where that occurred.

When I said it was an open invitation for people voting or intending to vote vezok to respond to Post 7757, I was including you in that.

I feel like you're missing a lot and it annoys me that you obviously not reading, missing a lot, actually challenged my slot to prove why we're pro-town.

TSO claimed that he didn't think both our slots could be town.

But seriously, that's like the littlest most minor thing that's been said today. Why are you ignoring the important things to post this???

[Imperium]

Sorry if I'm bitchy, I'm in a terrible mood, but I would like a response.

[Imperium]

Are you comparing it to this and saying the scenarios were/are the same? I'll happily play ball with that argument.

Your argument is that you wouldn't/couldn't act this way as scum. Tammy pointed out that you did act this way as scum. The next step here would be explaining how you've done things you couldn't do as scum.

Or responding to the case in a more meaningful way.

Or addressing the concerns I brought forward in that case you're ignoring for reasons only The Dark One knows.

Or making a meaningful case on someone.

Or continuing the vezok case you sort of half started (explain, for example, why vezok thought calling you town would mean the neighborhood wouldn't get any scrutiny or why he tried to turn on you now or other unacceptable things past "he town read me early", which is sort of lame).

[Imperium]

Why is it possible for beast to townread you early game but it isn't possible for vezok to town read you early game based on the same information?

[Imperium]

Except that scenario makes no sense.

/confirm.

Important stuff: Should we claim our neighbourhoods now or keep them hidden until later?

His second post of the game, hours after the game started, and while still in confirmation phase. He didn't eventually figure out there were neighborhoods, and it would be silly for that to be an argument because:

a) neighborhoods were advertised as part of the game

and

b) if he were scum, there's no eventual figuring out something that would have been discussed in the scum qt and therefore he would have known ahead of time.

Vezok wagon best wagon.

Now seriously. Metal sonic is town. House and TSO are town also.
I still have no idea what's up with beast.

This is all the neighborhood vouching I can find. He vouches for you and Magua slot. He doesn't vouch for beast.

~~~

Why are you still ignoring Nacho's points against you?

My perception of your play isn't going to change because waste time looking like you're busy to refute how I view you and what you do as scum. Do something that approximates town play.

What town pr do you think caused the no scum kill last night? You were blocked last night.

[Imperium]

So, yeah, your entire response to me calling vezok scum falls to pieces with that.

Isn't that cute?

What's cute is you thinking that him townreading Beast, 3000 posts, 139 pages, and nearly a month later actually strengthens your point.

I'm sorry that I busted your fantasy scenario with something like the actual text.

Your reasons for scum-reading vezok are trash. You know they're trash and that's why you keep harping on HOW DARE HE TOWN READ ME AND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD instead of addressing why I think vezok's actions don't make sense for scum. I'm all ears; I'm hoping to hearing another viewpoint, but not this crap which doesn't make any sense and you know it doesn't make sense.

And my point to you about doing something approximating town is serious. You keep derailing crap and throwing up inane distractions and still not trying to figure out the game. Telling me I'm the one flinging shit after you offer up the most craptastic scenario is kinda special.

In your pointing out that everyone knows that zelink is a roleblocker, are you trying to say that scum no killed so that they could set you up on the off chance zelink would roleblock you? Is that your point?

[Imperium]

* I'm open to hearing another viewpoint.

[Imperium]

Because me and Beast have history for years and years - that's not a relevant thing to point out. It's just a unique dynamic.

So. You posted enough content for Beast to get a read on you, meaning there was alignment relevant stuff in your posts, meaning it was possible to make a call on your alignment. Vezok wasn't able to make a call on your alignment because he didn't have years and years of history with you...?

[Imperium]

Also, for your pleasure, a history of vezok making early reads despite not having a lot of information:

Subject: Reck's Retrospective Rehash - OVER (thx obama)

Yeah. 4burner is like really town. I like this guy.

[Imperium]

Subject: Street Racers: London (Game over!)

Yeah amateur and triforce are scum.

Let's go with triforce

vote: TriforceP

[Imperium]

Subject: You could be anyone II - Game Over

I am going to call AJ nearly confirmed town. Just from that one post. Deal with it.

[Imperium]

Subject: invisible Inc. Mafia (OVER AND OUT)

What the fuck is happening in this game.

First off @mastin: Your links go to tiger graveyard. Just tell us what the damn role is already.

vote professor maniac

This needs death.

And, I got interrupted before I finished my thought, but TSO's entire case on vezok hinges on vezok as town never making the TSO-town bet with so little information, while vezok's past behavior pretty strongly suggests that isn't the case at all.

[Imperium]

hey ft buddy go ahead and claim that pick on tso so we can make with the death causing

[Imperium]

Hey, TSO.
Not quite true.
There's you, with aid from Heartless.
Then there's Imperium/Zelink/MS/others joining because of apathy.
And then there's people like me who aren't on either side yet because of apathy.
Important distinction, that.

(No, not really. TSO's actually pretty right.)

You're far too focused in on and around yourself this game and aren't actually reading anything that's going on around you. If you were, this game probably would have been over by Night 3. But instead, TSO's as good as caught scum and you're not even discussing him because... you don't respect me as a player anymore? You can't read how frustrated I am in this game, or you do and you just don't care?

[Imperium]

Subject: Street Racers: London (Game over!)

Yeah amateur and triforce are scum.

Let's go with triforce

vote: TriforceP

Triforce and amateur were utter scumfucks and they

had shown this clearly early in SR.

. I was able to produce a full Triforce wagon in less than a day or so - that is how scummy this was.

Read the fucking games you're linking.

You refuted one game out of four.
Please continue, I have about 50 more links available to me if you somehow manage to get through that.

[Imperium]

This lynch is going through because of town apathy - there are two sides on this. There's me, TSO, with no-one on my side but me. Then there's Imperium/ZeL1nk/MS/basically anyone else on the other side.

I asked Imperium what my scumpartners were doing because it seemed unusual they were just throwing me to the wolves. He gave something along the lines of "oh well they're not playing good". That's fucking nonsense. I get you think I'm scum and you're trying to bat away my counter-arguments, but that's the most convenient explanation ever.

I'll admit, I didn't put much effort into responding into your little hypothetical because it was an indescribably poor attempt at defending yourself. You say it's me/Zelink + everyone else? You're wrong. It's me and Zelink against you. We are the only people playing the game at this point in time. Your scumbuddies are lurking because the entire game is lurking. Why would they lurk? Why would town lurk? Both are pointless questions when, again, the entire game is lurking.

[Imperium]

Hey, if you lurk you must be scum.

(Ignoring that you were trying to push his lynch earlier for this very reason.)

[Imperium]

(Ignoring a large part of your push on me is for lurking.)

Is it???

[Imperium]

Because to be honest, I wasn't aware of that :/

I thought my case was based on inconsistencies and your shitty excuses for lurking and horrible cases despite plenty of activity, but I guess I was wrong?

[Imperium]

That explains why you've ignored for my case for so long: I haven't actually typed it out, all I've said was "TSO lurk, TSO scum".

[Imperium]

What is your read on TWIE?

Town.

[Imperium]

ok, I'll try my best

[Imperium]

my impression of vezok when i was looking over this game earlier was that it would be a really ballsy gambit to do what he did with ceph

I agree.

lol

i was going to follow up this thought with:

"but i wouldn't put it past him, ESPECIALLY if ceph coached him to do it."

I would put him past it: there hasn't existed a scum game in Cephrir's career where he coached a scum buddy into making a gambit like that or even attempted to, so requiring an assumption like that is really really bad (similar to "mastin coached vezok to do this really town thing" in sabotage mafia). Vezok claiming early is also a tendency of his (see: early tracker claim in retrospective rehash), so that also makes sense as well. If what you were driving at is the early wrong read being scummy... Lots of people were wrong about Cephrir, myself included. What makes vezok special?

[Imperium]

Hey TSO, while I'm typing out this super long town case on TWIE, can you respond to my case on you?

[Imperium]

i think the most damning evidence against twie is the meh read on ceph when confronted on it and the subsequent dicking around and eventual dropping it altogether

I don't think there's really anything good about TWIE's play but I'm still having trouble letting go of the Blonde "I can make myself confirmed town" thing, which would be a pretty impressive play from newscum, who, in his last game as scum, just sort of sat around and let himself get lynched.

[Imperium]

i think the most damning evidence against twie is the meh read on ceph when confronted on it and the subsequent dicking around and eventual dropping it altogether

I don't think there's really anything good about TWIE's play but I'm still having trouble letting go of the Blonde "I can make myself confirmed town" thing, which would be a pretty impressive play from newscum, who, in his last game as scum, just sort of sat around and let himself get lynched.

yeah there's also the TWIE softclaiming on skybird behalf

[Imperium]

Page 11-13

* The one thing that does bother me about xombie is the "Are you overcompensating" post, the more I look at it. That shit's not good.

*Imperium won't explain 73. I also didn't quite get that post tbh.

* 306 is probably the laziest Vote Count I've ever seen.

* in 310, Bitmap sees what I saw, and apparently nobody else cared about. I like Bitmap

* The more I see Imperium and Solar Wind react, the more that fight at the beginning seems like a fabrication.

* Imperium passes off a serious post about him as a joke.

* I guess Metal Sonic is a daycop---

WAIT A SECOND HOLD THE PHONE

He claimed something completely different in our hood.

There's also this + the next two posts from aeronaut which adds to the slot's towniness by a considerable degree.

[Imperium]

Hey TSO, while I'm typing out this super long town case on TWIE, can you respond to my case on you?

[Imperium]

i think the most damning evidence against twie is the meh read on ceph when confronted on it and the subsequent dicking around and eventual dropping it altogether

I don't think there's really anything good about TWIE's play but I'm still having trouble letting go of the Blonde "I can make myself confirmed town" thing, which would be a pretty impressive play from newscum, who, in his last game as scum, just sort of sat around and let himself get lynched.

Nearly every role in this game has the potential to confirm itself as town. Mine does, for example. It's no great stretch of the imagination for Blonde to think the same and say it, regardless of alignment. This also raises the nasty little problem of TWIE not actually confirming himself and coasting like fuck. You would think he'd at least confirm himself and then coast, if that was his plan.

This alleviates none of my concerns.

It's actually a pretty big stretch to assume that Blonde, who again, is a newbie, would see a way his scum role could confirm him as town because that's impossible. Him faking a way to confirm himself as town seems doubtful because it's a ballsy move from a scum player to claim a power they don't have for absolutely no reason: on the other hand, it would make sense if Blonde interpreted his role wrong and was incorrect about what was "confirmed town" and what wasn't in this meta.

[Imperium]

It would indeed be a ballsy move by a scum player, especially a newb, to claim a power they don't have. That's why Blonde didn't do that. He believed the role he got, and its powers, could confirm him. This is role madness; as scum or town, this is entirely possible in the mind of a newbie player. Blonde-scum is just as likely to think his role can confirm him as town as Blonde-town is - Blonde-town is not more informed in any way than Blonde-scum. Him doing this is completely null.

Onto Skybird, thanks.

Blonde-scum thinking his role could confirm him as town is less likely than Blonde-town thinking his role could confirm him as town is different because one of these scenarios is possible and the other one isn't.

[Imperium]

I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."

Carry on.

So what's your read on TWIE?

You didn't respond, buddy.