SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Imperium]

Who's scum reading us?

That's why they are. There's no other reason besides thinking the attacks are cool and hating me for it.

Did they say that?

What's your read of solar wind?

Strong town for what I remember?

You've been calling us scum. Must be a reason. Ten bucks it's because solar wrote a ton of shit against me. It's literrally the on,y reason anyone could think we're scum.

[Imperium]

The mod announced that TD has brambles. Not TD himself. Where Is the lie? Maybe I didn't catch it

How do yu think he got brambles?

[Imperium]

Who's scum reading us?

That's why they are. There's no other reason besides thinking the attacks are cool and hating me for it.

Did they say that?

What's your read of solar wind?

Strong town for what I remember?

You've been calling us scum. Must be a reason. Ten bucks it's because solar wrote a ton of shit against me. It's literrally the on,y reason anyone could think we're scum.

Can I take your 10 bucks?

Well there's no other reason for anyone to think I'm scum than they think that personal attacks are okay or why would solar wind be the top town read??????? And apparently I'm scum because I've been attacked.

Like its so fucking typical.

It's just sad who's endorsing it because thre used to be respect there.

[Imperium]

Okay well then I guess it's possible someone targetted TD.

[Imperium]

I'm irrelevant

[Imperium]

I'm sorry.

I thought magua was saying that he liked that sw was calling me a bitch.

Nacho told me I misinterpretted.

[Imperium]

Me and nacho segueing traded.


But

We are having a competition.

Give us a drinking challenge and we will do it

[Imperium]

Nachos abo ut to pass out which means I drank him under the table wooooooooooooooo

[Imperium]

I
Want

Everyone

To

Recognize

That

I'm

The.

Drunk
Champion

[Imperium]

I just drunk nacho. Under the table

hear me roar!!!

[Imperium]

I swear on all, that is holy and good that I am town.

[Imperium]

Slow and steady wins the race.

[Imperium]

We're guaranteed town. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Also, he claimed he could dunk me under the table.

I. Think. Not.

[Imperium]

Dmammit.

I mean drink.

[Imperium]

TheAceofspades (3): Xombie, Ooba, vezokpiraka
RachMarie (3): Bitmap, Farside22, Heartless
Skybird (2): Mastin2, Cephrir
Imperium (1): Magua

^These are the wagons we currently have that I can see myself supporting. (Don't freak out, Imperium, I said "can see myself supporting", not "would currently support".)

In particular, I'm strongly considering switching to RachMarie. Theace wouldn't be a horrible wagon, either.

I'm not going to freak out.

No one with any sense ell lynch us anyway.

[Imperium]

Yeah, we need pics of both of you or it didn't happen.

Not gonna happen, sorry

[Imperium]

We got moved up from confirmed scum so that's a start!!M

[Imperium]

Yeah, we need pics of both of you or it didn't happen.

Not gonna happen, sorry

Guess I'm rooting for Nacho in the next round then!

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Imperium]

Paranoia of nacho knows no bounds!

[Imperium]

Metal sonic

[Imperium]

I didn't say that

[Imperium]

Ooba I meant to mention this ages ago, but I don't think a racist has the limited kill mechanics that Metal Sonic does. I would also be surprised and displeased if multiple racist roles existed in the game.

[Imperium]

I would also like to point out that the sleeping figure you all see on a previous page drank as many bottles of wine as Tammy did glasses of wine. I did pass out first, but I earned sleep whereas she did not. I know this isn't game related and I'm sorry for that, but I feel like I had to clear the air a bit.

[Imperium]

I don't have any reason to read him as town. I'm waiting for what bitmap thinks about his time with him.

Okay, so I have a theory on the aceofspades. Yesterday at lynch time he said that he could double vote when it looked like we might get a no vote. When I asked him if it would show up in the vote count, he didn't know. And then he said that he did activate his double vote, and if you look at the vote count he does not show up as a double voter.

So, I have two things. I think that if he were scum that his buddies would have clarified how his role worked because it's a rather powerful role for scum. And having a secret voter/double voter is great for causing confusion in the town. He said he had it ahead of time and could use it. I think if he were scum he would have just quietly sent in that double vote instead of outing it.

I mean he could have been faking not knowing how it worked but it didn't feel that way.

Anyway that's my thought on that. I got concerned that maybe he was actually the vote thief, and took the vote from magua to use. But then that also feels weird.

Am I overlooking something or insane?

Can someone talk to me about this?

Also heartless, he said he can use it everyday.

Also also disregard the vote thief part as that got resolved.

[Imperium]

Actually hrm it says the threshold was 11 and there actually are 11 voters. I think the mask made him hated which should have made aces second vote the hammer.

[Imperium]

Actually hrm it says the threshold was 11 and there actually are 11 voters. I think the mask made him hated which should have made aces second vote the hammer.

Magua didnt have a vote though.

Oh good point. I forgot about that. He definitely does not show up twice in the vote count then.

[Imperium]

I would also like to point out that the sleeping figure you all see on a previous page drank as many bottles of wine as Tammy did glasses of wine. I did pass out first, but I earned sleep whereas she did not. I know this isn't game related and I'm sorry for that, but I feel like I had to clear the air a bit.

This is not very accurate btw.

~~~

So, I was thinking about the not posting and forced thing. I have actually been posting a lot, so I don't get that accusation. I dont think I've been forced either, though I will admit that I was trying to be light and happy when I was miserable, so I don't know if that came across as forced, but that's not alignment indicative.

Also I was looking back at yesterday and blonde aeronaut. I can't for the life of me figure out why he stole houses vote. It was almost definitely blonde as aeronauts heya post came right after dram's vote count in which house is missing a vote and blonde doesn't even mention house. So hrm.

[Imperium]

That might be nothing though. I just looked over our reads, and we have that slot as top town due to the "I can prove I'm town", and the metal sonic claim thing.

[Imperium]

Okay, so I have a theory on the aceofspades. Yesterday at lynch time he said that he could double vote when it looked like we might get a no vote. When I asked him if it would show up in the vote count, he didn't know. And then he said that he did activate his double vote, and if you look at the vote count he does not show up as a double voter.

So, I have two things. I think that if he were scum that his buddies would have clarified how his role worked because it's a rather powerful role for scum. And having a secret voter/double voter is great for causing confusion in the town. He said he had it ahead of time and could use it. I think if he were scum he would have just quietly sent in that double vote instead of outing it.

See, this is what

I

was thinking. Regardless of behavior, the role itself and how he chose to claim and use it points to town.

Does he not show up as a double voter on the vote count? I was under the impression that's the only reason the AP lynch went through. :S

Hmm...nacho didn't have him listed in our top town reads, and I don't remember him responding to this. He usually tells me when I have crazy ideas that don't mean anything though :/

[Imperium]

I still think he's town though.

[Imperium]

Oh. Huh.

[Imperium]

It was sometime between 8 and 13, and aeronaut replaced in two days after vote count 13.

I wonder if he thought the vote thief was a role that would confirm him as town.

[Imperium]

Oh so you can steal a vote and it makes you a double voter?

[Imperium]

Huh, so it does. I'm surprised house didn't notice that when he was grilling beast over it.

That's probably a train of thought going nowhere though :/

[Imperium]

Magua - Figuring out the brambles was important. Nacho and I thought it was an aspect of TD targeting us, in which case he would be confirmed scum lying that he targeted Mastin. It wasn't, so he was telling the truth.

For the proof on it being -Blonde- this is what we figured out today. In the first votecount (8), your slot is shown as having a vote, and -Blonde-'s vote only counts as one. In the next votecount (9), your slot isn't voting anyone but -Blonde-'s vote now counts for two. So somewhere here the vote had to be taken by Blonde.

Votecount 9: Somewhere over the rainbow or something.

BRantz (3): Ooba, vezokpiraka, PeregrineV
vezokpiraka (3): BRantz
Solar Wind (2): Mantisdreamz, -Blonde-
TiphaineDeath (1): FourTrouble
PeregrineV (1): Farside22
The Mask (1): Ankamius
House (1): AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon (1): Imperium
Bitmap (1): RachMarie
Mastin2 (1): TiphaineDeath
-Blonde- (1): Mastin2

Not voting: theaceofspades, iHouse, xombie, beastcharizard, ZZZX, Solar Wind, The Mask, TSO, VysePresident

Bitmap and Metal Sonic have been removed from the game. You may not choose them as targets for actions or vote them, and their votes do not count when calculating the threshold.
Lynch threshold is now 12.

Votecount 9: Somewhere over the rainbow or something.

BRantz (3): Ooba, vezokpiraka, PeregrineV
vezokpiraka (3): BRantz
Solar Wind (3): Mantisdreamz, -Blonde-
Mantisdreamz (1): FourTrouble
PeregrineV (1): Farside22
The Mask (1): Ankamius
House (1): AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon (1): Imperium
Bitmap (1): RachMarie
Mastin2 (1): TiphaineDeath
-Blonde- (1): Mastin2
Imperium (1): TSO

Not voting: theaceofspades, iHouse, xombie, beastcharizard, ZZZX, Solar Wind, The Mask, VysePresident

[Imperium]

I like Magua's attack on Mask, is a good point.

[Imperium]

Farside - I don't have three scum reads to give you. I'm really just getting my head back in the game and feeling like I can read the game and get reads. We have some strong town reads, but are lacking in scum reads.

One of the things we're trying to figure out are the people with vote related roles. At the expense of sounding setup specy, I'm just not sure that all vote-related people can be town.

We have a strong town read on TWIE. The thing I brought up earlier about Blonde saying he could prove himself as town may have been negated by TWIE, as he apparently doesn't, but that doesn't really change his approach to it because he could have thought he had something that strong. He's new here and has experience off site, so he could be coming from there.

We've discussed ace and think that some of his early posts looks somewhat scummy, but the usage of his role looks pretty town and this post sounds like it's coming from a town mindset, would be kinda brazen to come from scum.

We still don't like beast/he's not doing anything, but without knowing how he gains votes it's kinda hard to determine if it's even something that would be given to scum.

So, I'm just not sure. I'm hoping I can get centered somewhat soon.

[Imperium]

Okay, so I have a theory on the aceofspades. Yesterday at lynch time he said that he could double vote when it looked like we might get a no vote. When I asked him if it would show up in the vote count, he didn't know. And then he said that he did activate his double vote, and if you look at the vote count he does not show up as a double voter.

So, I have two things. I think that if he were scum that his buddies would have clarified how his role worked because it's a rather powerful role for scum. And having a secret voter/double voter is great for causing confusion in the town. He said he had it ahead of time and could use it. I think if he were scum he would have just quietly sent in that double vote instead of outing it.

I mean he could have been faking not knowing how it worked but it didn't feel that way.

Am I overlooking something or insane?

[Imperium]

I went back to check on whether Ace was a double voter and here's what I found. Didn't someone else say in the end of the day flurry that they could lower the vote threshold? I need to look that up next.

I town claim all the time as town!

I get that you have other interests, but I've been arguing against your lynch and I feel squicky when that person doesn't show a presence.

Will your double vote count in the vote counts?

no idea. haven't tried it

the language specifically was "your vote will count as two"

clarity! i target a person. then my vote counts at 2 against them. so i have to activate it.

L-1 i activated

[Imperium]

Magua's vote was stolen.

[Imperium]

There is however something bugging me about cephrir that I can't exactly pinpoint nor shake.

And no, I don't believe he was saved from a nightkill.

[Imperium]

This game still feels like multiball, but pere flipped mafia aligned, and not a particular faction, so maybe another racist?

So, that's out, but I must be townreading or trying to townread scum, which would explain this not making sense.

I'll need to reread Peres ISO tomorrow when I'm more awake.

[Imperium]

Did some thinking about Tammy's ace point: I do agree that yesterday doesn't happen from scum-ace unless he doesn't claim to his scumbuddies (which, considering scum probably have daytalk because of neighborhood daytalk, seems unlikely). I believe it is far more advantageous to keep a secret doublevote safe for quickhammering and I don't think any scum claims it publicly to look town unless there are some major restrictions on it.

[Imperium]

Meh, nothing really helpful from pere, and I don't know how he usually treats his scumbuddies so, meh.

I hope the rach replacement is easy to read.

The CW ho thing is kinda bugging me though. I'd have to look at it in context but coming from a mafia perspective, he may not have wanted to be on the "mislynch", and may have planned to do some "scumhunting" on the wagon. That kinda makes me worried about rach.

[Imperium]

Oh no wait, ap wasn't a big wagon at that point. The aceofspades was. Pere was previously voting ace, so yeah I have no idea.

[Imperium]

Nope.

[Imperium]

Farside - when heartless replaced in you said you think you'd be able to get a read on tth. Do you have one?

[Imperium]

Mastin - iirc you pride yourself on being able to read cephrir. What's your read there?

[Imperium]

Nope.

Well then hi there Tammy! I'm TTH.

I know you've got something going on with F16 and I'm not trying to poke that hornet's nest. But, I would appreciate it if you or Nacho gave your 100% bullshit-free read on Solar Wind. Thanks in advance!

Nacho has had them at 100% town since early day one when he and ffery synced up on the arms race.

Well I guess 99% town would be more accurate.

I think they're most likely town. I've wondered here and there just what the heck the falcon head is doing, but that's neither here nor there as they're probably town anyway so it's not something I'm going to worry about.

[Imperium]

I'd be surprised if he logs into imperium right now though.

[Imperium]

Huh. Well I know what lynch nacho wants.

[Imperium]

Vote: beastcharizard

[Imperium]

When Nacho gets in here, tell him to tell me more about that.

Ummmmmmm.

[Imperium]

Well, I have literally no idea what you find scummy about the slot, so I'll start with issues you outlined in a recent post.

[Imperium]

"Someone who doesn't have a vote out" - Both players are slow to vote. They have claimed a role that needs the hammer for power. Them not having a vote out doesn't mean they aren't collaborating. Saying all they've done is big chunks of text or spamming when a lot of those big chunks of text were serious efforts in moving the game forward and some of what I assume you're referring to when you say spamming was also effort to move the game forward and anger which is not alignment relevant in general.

[Imperium]

There wasn't a player in the game who put more effort into sorting players in the beginning of the game, and the effort had the drive and conviction and push towards perfection I would expect from the slot as town. The interaction with us throughout the entire game would take a level of blatant lying that seems pretty difficult to fake, the amount of pushing in general and the depth to which these many pushes have been developed are additionally outside the realm of what a majority of the site (everyone on the site?) is capable of forming and creating as scum. But the reason I say that I need to know the more definitive reasons why you're finding solar wind as scum is because a majority of your case seems more annoyance with the slot than a scum read of it and if I'm wrong in that assumption I need major help in correcting it because going through ISOs on mobile sucks donkey balls.

[Imperium]

Alright, then.

Could you please outline their reads on: mastin, Cephrir, FourTrouble?

FourTrouble was a strong town read based on personal experience that I tend to share. FourTrouble has a massive tendency to burn out as either alignment, but the passion and drive he showed in the beginning of the game was a sort of rare occurance and a sign of FT-town being engaged in the game and excited about it and town in it. He also considers to throw around his weight in a way that seems unlikely to be coming from scum-FT.

[Imperium]

Cephrir read has two depths: ffery's and F-16's. Ffery read started unsure on the slot, ended up becoming a mild town read by softclaim which reinforced itself by old town-Ceph traits popping up here and there (more emotional responses, less push or purpose to his game). F-16's read began with him noticing the convenience of Ceph's stances if he were scum and noted a few of the ways he was approaching me/ffery/others had very distinct manipulative tendencies. He also disliked Cephrir interactions with FT since he felt it was excessive buddying (too much so to he realistic). I'm not sure where this read lies now: it's either degenerated to some extent because of Cephrir's posting not really having that same manipulative tone he was looking for and in particular because of ffery and I's conviction in the slot being town.

[Imperium]

Alright, then.

Could you please outline their reads on: mastin, Cephrir, FourTrouble?

I didn't ask for your read, I asked for theirs.

If everything you're telling me right now is true, I should be able to track all these reads pretty easily.

That was their read, they can correct me if I'm wrong.
if you can't track that in thread, well Tammy can maybe help you but there's no way in hell I'm going through and picking out things from ISO on mobile unless you have a fucking fantastic reason for me to do so

[Imperium]

I don't have time to outline mastin reasoning. Scumread probably for similar reasons to my scum read. Ferry read broke town when she started responding to my push/AP. F-16 was significantly more uncomfortable with that read because defense of AP looked like bullshit to him, but read has softened after a more full discussion in neighborhood.

[Imperium]

Alright, then.

Could you please outline their reads on: mastin, Cephrir, FourTrouble?

I didn't ask for your read, I asked for theirs.

If everything you're telling me right now is true, I should be able to track all these reads pretty easily.

That was their read, they can correct me if I'm wrong.
if you can't track that in thread, well Tammy can maybe help you but there's no way in hell I'm going through and picking out things from ISO on mobile unless you have a fucking fantastic reason for me to do so

You don't want this do you?

[Imperium]

I mean to heartless. Was Nacho's reasoning good enough?

[Imperium]

Alright, then.

Could you please outline their reads on: mastin, Cephrir, FourTrouble?

I didn't ask for your read, I asked for theirs.

If everything you're telling me right now is true, I should be able to track all these reads pretty easily.

That was their read, they can correct me if I'm wrong.
if you can't track that in thread, well Tammy can maybe help you but there's no way in hell I'm going through and picking out things from ISO on mobile unless you have a fucking fantastic reason for me to do so

You don't want this do you?

I mean to heartless. Was Nacho's reasoning good enough?

Not yet. I'm letting it sink in.

Well there's a bit of this game that I haven't read/skimmed over and have no desire to go rooting through it again to find stuff. Both of them have reads lists on page two of their iso in which they explain the FourTrouble read.

I'm not sure if there's analysis on Ceph in the game thread, but they have talked about their read on Mastin when discussing things with FourTrouble sometime last week I think? There might be more, but it's somewhere in between their vote on me and their unvote.

[Imperium]

It's actually kind of amusing when someone is soooooooooo convinced I'm scum, they say "when I flip scum" when I really couldn't be more town. It has, however, given nacho trolling ammunition because the scum read is based on me. So that's also fun :/

I am kinda surprised he's not taking his strong town read's solar winds strong town read of me.

I'm townreading magua for the most part, but I don't remember him being so sticky on reads and not asking questions and digging to clarify his reads.

Yiu unvoted us last night though!

[Imperium]

Okay magua riddle me this. Your strongest town read has a strong town read on your strongest scum read. You say that you liked the push on you because they came to the same conclusion you did, but that's not accurate at all. In fact, in the post where they voted us, it was a post about how badly my scum game sucks and telling mastin she was wrong. He literally says he doesn't think I'm scum, but he'd help push there to get reactions. He then, in a follow up post, mentions that the last time he fake suspected me, he caught the scum team based on their reactions to his push on me, which indicates that, again, he doesn't suspect us.

Did you miss all that? Why are you skipping over your strong town read's posts concerning their strong town read of us? Why are you ignoring the fact that they pointed out you were wrong about their not being much of me in the thread?

Why aren't you negotiating that?

There's a similar trend with your ooba read and projection of his posts.

You're just flat out ignoring things in thread which negate your reads so you can stay sticky on them. Why aren't you digging? Why are you just commentating?

[Imperium]

dram - can you prod zzzx, bitmap and beadtcharizard? They haven't posted in days.

[Imperium]

Also let me clear up the situation with beast.

Beast claimed in our neighbourhood that if he lives through day 1 his role will confirm him as town. We waited and his confirmation was that he had 1/2 votes. He said his vote fluctuated. I guessed that he gains a vote for each kill and that he had half because of brambles. He came in the thread and claimed that he actually gains half a vote for each death since the last night. So he had half a vote from the AP lynch. He did this incredibly calmly.

I couldn't see this coming from scum beast in a million years. His scumbuddies would've coached him and told him something to fakeclaim. He wouldn't have responded so quickly to my guess, because he would've asked his scum friends how to react.

Seriously, beast IS TOWN.

The lynch today is between FT and TD.

How would he be able to fakeclaim something that is available in thread for all to see.

Though this is what nacho and I were contemplating the other night. Iirc nacho thought this was a powerful role for scum especially if it accumulates and he lasts until late game. I can't remember what iteration of our guesses he thought would make him more likely town though.

Why would you have thought brambles had anything to do with him?

[Imperium]

I think TD's roleblock claim + vote on mastin was incredibly town.

There's something that I'm tossing around right now and getting solar winds opinion here because something doesn't exactly feel right.

Oh ffery has done a potential neighborhood work up in the hood, and ooba's also kept track of that.

[Imperium]

Yeah. It wasn't that it was too powerful for scum so it made him town, but he thought him more likely scum if that was the version of the role.

If I'm remembering our conversation right.

[Imperium]

Words cannot express how much I hate maguas statement that he's essentially waiting until solar wind dies to try to lynch us.

That is not a town thought process at all.

Note he's not even bothering to try to find out why solar wind is right and he's wrong. He goes not care because he's not trying to figure out the game. He's busy shooting words and making reads that look like he shot that set a dart board and refuses to see if his targets are correct.

Magua - if you're town here has your playstyle changed so much since ny146 that you no longer bother trying to figure out the game? That town magua dug, and even as that town magua was convinced I was the serial killer, that town magua dug at me...questioned me...questioned others in an attempt to figure out the game. That town magua, in the process, realized he was wrong. I have no idea what this magua is doing. If you're town, I want that town magua back. But, I'm really having a hard time seeing that this attitude, this demeanor, this refusing to dig comes from town magua. And if it is, I'm just sad, I hadn't played with you in awhile and was looking forward to playing with town magua.

[Imperium]

Magua - why do yu want to see ankamius ask questions less?

Oh also if you really try to ask questions to figure out things, why no question to solar wind.

Also you're missing my point. You said you liked solar winds push on us because you like it when people come to the same conclusion as you. Except they explicitly did not come to the same conclusion as you and sprecifically said I was town in the process, so your first statement does not add up.

[Imperium]

MISREPRESENTATION!

It's tammy, and whatever ms, he literally said he'll wait until solar wind dies to revisit it.

[Imperium]

Wow okay fine I can't tell between TAMMY and Nacho hydra heads okay.

Nobody can. For some weird reason.

[Imperium]

>_>

[Imperium]

Ugh I hate when I don't finish reading walls, but ooba's stuff is not fluff. Trying to figure out why TD was covered in brambles was not fluff and if you'd bother reading anything we've said about it you'd know that I thought TD got it as a result of targeting us, which would make him a liar when he said he targeted mastin.

That is explicitly not fluff, that's trying to figure ut the game. You should try it sometime!

[Imperium]

Are xombie, zzzx, and mastin in the same neighborhood?

[Imperium]

Ugh I hate when I don't finish reading walls, but ooba's stuff is not fluff. Trying to figure out why TD was covered in brambles was not fluff and if you'd bother reading anything we've said about it you'd know that I thought TD got it as a result of targeting us, which would make him a liar when he said he targeted mastin.

That is explicitly not fluff, that's trying to figure ut the game. You should try it sometime!

Are you claiming "bramble maker"? "Anybody who visits you gets brambles"? Cause I don't see why targeting you causes the targeter to be bramblefied

I made it clear yesterday that targeting us has consequences.

Strangely enough it didn't turn out to be due to us, so our belief that he didn't actually target mastin but targeted us was wrong.

[Imperium]

?

[Imperium]

OOBA - Nacho wants me to ask you how many nature/wild gods there are in MOBA?

I actually thought the best bet for 'Bramble' was 'Slyvanus' from your pantheon. (which is why I thought it was TD using an self-ability)

Haven't gone through the lore of all gods - just Chinese and my own. I'll do a quick scan to see if others fit.

---

^pedit: I have Tammy as 'mild town' - please don't club me with Magua who's voting her.

How did you know what pantheon we were in?

[Imperium]

Mastin is either town or scum with a bad scumteam.

@rach: if you were to be a unicorn what color would you be?

Purple because it is NS's favorite color and I love him ♥

See this mastin? This isn't scum.

I don't particularly like this. Don't know why but don't.

Guys. I had a dream where this game ended and aceofspades won as scum.

This is clearly a sign he is scum.

Ceph: thank me later.

vote ms

It's good that you're back. Time to die.

Do like the dream.

Do also like the ceph thank me later stuff.

I do not believe vezok is the reason for no night kill last night, but I do like that he thinks he is.

[Imperium]

i'd like to know why our neighborhood is so important. There was only three of us. And something mask mentioned makes me think it's unlikely that it would be and SK with mafia in the same hood.

I'm calling mask town for that. Actually pretty much conftown when i think about it. I'm happy with that. 4 unassailable town in SW MS imp and mask

I still really like my theory, and this post just sounds town.

sick. not posting today

i lied. I feel okay now

VOTE: beast

I'm not loving this.

~~~

Sorry if I spam some. I'm sick and waiting for medicine to knock me out, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm overlooking.

[Imperium]

Are xombie, zzzx, and mastin in the same neighborhood?

Okay, yes they are. I liked xombies reaction to the metal sonic fake claim, not finding anything I don't like in his ISO really. I've noted one thing in the neighborhood, but it's more a if x then y is possible thing, but that's not even that strong.

Xombie has been strongly defending mastin, I'm assuming based on something in the neighborhood, and vice versa. Mastin is calling his hood his masonry, so he's town reading all of them.

Xombie - I don't see you claiming a strong town read on zzzx. What is your read on him?

[Imperium]

Ooba - thanks, that makes sense.

[Imperium]

Beast logged in Monday night but hasn't posted anything on site since Saturday.

[Imperium]

What do you think fueled the last minute AP wagon?

My best guess is the pressure of impending deadline is what motivated most of the votes. The stuff you and Imperium posted previously most likely provided the original spark for the wagon.

pretty much i guess

What are you doing?
Who are you townreading?
Who are your primary scumreads?
What is your input on yesterday and today?

Seriously why do you play if you don't post anything?

I might not appear to be doing much but lets say stuff are getting interesting.

anyway my reads are not complete yet. but I feel ms is null/town . Mastin is prob town. and the rest should calm down and actually slow down thier posting lol.

If you only think mastin is prob town, what do you think of her treating your hood like a masonry and what's your read on xombie?

[Imperium]

I'm keep a slide of players\neighbourhoods. I don't have detailed notes for how I made each of the deductions/jumps. From memory:
- You weren't Egyptian because I am
- You weren't Greek because you replied to House saying you wanted to be in Olympus
- MS claimed Chinese and his two neighbours pretty early on D1
- Pegged {You\SW\Bitmap\xx} as Roman from the rest initially because "strongman with 2 kills" sounded liked Hercules and I'm pretty sure I spotted a Cupid thing from SW
- Reaffirmed when MS said 'Janus' after being Bitmap'd

This post is pretty town. If ooba was scum, the true answer to how he knew the pantheons would be because he is scum. However, he was able to produce all of these things, none of which I really picked up on, 40 minutes after the question was asked. I believe this would take longer than 40 minutes to fabricate, and furthermore, I don't think scum would have seen reason to care about the pantheon issue enough to have something like this ready.

Yeah, I have a town read there anyway, though if I have time I'll check out a scum game to see if an indicator is there too. The question was mostly a stray thought with me thinking about scum in my neighborhood.

[Imperium]

Town (S->W): Solar Wind --> mastin2 --> Metal Sonic ----------------> vezokpiraka --> beastcharizard --------> TiphaineDeath --> ZZZX (based off of mastin) --> Cephrir -------------> FourTrouble -> Heartless -> Bitmap

Scum (S->W): Imperium -> TSO --> Ankamius --> Skybird --> RachMarie ------> ooba --> farside --> TheWayItEnds --> aceofspades --> xombie

UNVOTE: Ankamius
VOTE: Imperium

Leeeeeeet's talk about your reads list here.

1) you have mastin as town, fine. You're giving zzzx a town read based entirely off mastin, cool. Why do you then have xombie in your scum reads when mastin has also been calling xombie 100% town? You can't say it's because zzzx is doing more because that's objectively false.

2) I get your reasoning for twie and the unprompted admittance of the vote thief making him look good (I have a tin foil hat theory on that) but why do you think that his two predecessors didn't fess up to the stolen vote when house was raising a stink about it? Also you note that he has fluff while tso also has fluff but twie'so is more organic. Why the ambiguous reads that mean nothing! I mean hey I like stuff like organic, forced as much as the next person but please to be acting like you're reading the thread and not spitballing.

3) If you believe vezok saved cephrir from a nightkill, I don't believe he did, but if you believe he did, why is cephrir not higher on your reads list?

4) if you're basically reading tiphaine death and beast as town because they're lynchbait, why do you have rach and ankamius in your scum reads? Pretty sure rach has been v/la this day phase, so you're scum reading her for being v/la? (I also get that you think td's I blocked mastin is so town, but I have my own problems with that one, and if you think he's town from that how did you miss that we were trying to figure out if he was lying?)

5) how is bitmap town but rachmarie isn't?

[Imperium]

...... I think given how much people trust her and how much she was asking not to be targeted groupscum would find her the perfect choice to send out for a kill. And also, THERE WASN'T A GODDAMNED KILL!

I have a problem with this post.

[Imperium]

Is it the fact that it confirms he actually did read mastin's posts yesterday?

And by that point I do not believe he thought his roleblock on mastin stopped the kill.

[Imperium]

No. I mean at the moment when he said, "THERE WASNT A GODDAMNED KILL" I do not believe he thought his roleblock stopped the kill.

There's exactly one reason why he could have said that, but I'm just not sure either way.

He could be derp town? IDK

[Imperium]

...... I think given how much people trust her and how much she was asking not to be targeted groupscum would find her the perfect choice to send out for a kill. And also, THERE WASN'T A GODDAMNED KILL!

I'd like your conclusion better if someone else already hadn't claimed to have blocked the kill.

This might point to derp town?

IDK

[Imperium]

I don't follow.

It will make sense at some point.

[Imperium]

Mastics been calling xombie town the whole game.

[Imperium]

Aaaaand his most recent wall has him throwing shade on xombie for "fake town slipping", so he's taking the word for one and not the other.

[Imperium]

Btw, not a dayvig threat. I'm removing either mask or PV. Not too sure about you, would rather have town collectively decide or lynch

Of the two, I have a townread on Mask and a nullread on PV, sooooooooooooooooooooo, PV over Mask.

Might point to mastin town, unless he thought it was a gambit.

[Imperium]

its only very recently where she said "100% town"

In her first reads list of the day, she has xombie as her secon strongest townread and keeps calling her hood a masonry.

[Imperium]

1) you have mastin as town, fine. You're giving zzzx a town read based entirely off mastin, cool. Why do you then have xombie in your scum reads when mastin has also been calling xombie 100% town? You can't say it's because zzzx is doing more because that's objectively false.

magua made that readslist after mastin called zzzx town but before xombie town

Why don't you want magua to answer the question? Is he a mute all of a sudden?

[Imperium]

Btw, not a dayvig threat. I'm removing either mask or PV. Not too sure about you, would rather have town collectively decide or lynch

Of the two, I have a townread on Mask and a nullread on PV, sooooooooooooooooooooo, PV over Mask.

Might point to mastin town, unless he thought it was a gambit.

*she, sorry.

[Imperium]

I think TD's roleblock claim + vote on mastin was incredibly town.

And I thought it was incredibly null!

Dumb question: why did td get brambles.

I don't know why a lot of people say it was a result of a reactive PGO. I would say that someone with bramble attack targeted him. I think that those who leap to unusual conclusions have extra info and are scummy

Vezo said he targetted mastin, didn't he?

Vezo said he targeted cephrir

TD said he targeted mastin

[Imperium]

Because I'm trying to get a read on magua.

The question isn't false, MASTIN'S been calling xombie town all game. Why believe on one and not the other?

[Imperium]

And how would you know he didn't know, and why wouldn't you let him answer that?

[Imperium]

Imp: Why did you not mention this concern of yours sooner?

As for the discussion about xombie, I thought he was a newb to mafia, which was why I felt his reaction was more questionable. Most newbs as far as I have run across are aware of gambits like that.

My concern has been there and it's been a work in progress. I've put other concerns in the neighborhood and was met with Nacho was going to laugh at me to see my concern.

I've been out all day and this was something I was thinking about while out. Left some messages for Nacho, thought about it some more, then decided to put it out there.

It's about 24 hours into day one, so it's not like I waited a long time to air my concerns.

I'm just a bit bothered that TD says something and you follow up with issues after.

I'm just a bit bothered that TD says something and you follow up with issues after.

What's concerning about that? Tammy's analysis doesn't seem fake.

For me it was a bit out of the blue read after many pages of back and forth.

Plus: weird reason that will make people look at me funny.

@ap: the reason I asked for the hydra's to sign there post there was a discussion in my neighborhood and wondered who was posting. Some post from the hydra read a bit strange coming from Tammy that I wondered and it's easy to say it was not really Tammy.

As for my reads I did say town, null or not enough info.
The reason for my each scum read early is seen in this game and as you quoted from me xombie's delay vote struck me as scummy.

Imp this was the remark you made about me that seemed more like you were familiar with me as a player then just playing a game or two.

That you're being naive about some things (Farside, ooba) and not realizing the significance of others (Rach, House). Rach opening the game with a completely different approach from her normal scum game should be a pretty large town marker, as should the vengeful claim out of the blue from House. Farside and ooba would have a decently easy time posting the things they've posted in thread as scum: both have individual town markers that are much more town and much more reliable than what they've dropped in thread so far.

I have AP as a town read, not sure where the hate is coming from there. I was more pissy with him because I was a bit tired last night and criticizing my 2 scum reads when he had 3 mentioned and 1 can't post and the other is all but invisible in this game.

Imp: this is where my confusion comes from.

I'm not following. I did think that Ank scumreading you guys was less likely to come from scum in general but he seems so disengaged from the game I'm not sure he even knows who the difficult lynches are. Have you played with Ank before? Also, you are presenting a thought process that would be pretty elaborate for him. I could potentially see scum showing up, feeling too lazy to read, and complaining about the mass of content. Perhaps he thought complaining about the "spam" would endear him to the rest of the players who haven't caught up. He isn't you and may not understand that manipulating influential voices is important. His scum strategy could potentially be to simply avoid a lynch and he may think that getting null-town read by the majority is sufficient to do that. Can you elaborate on this read more?

I have played with Ank before, yeah. I agree that scum motivation line is at least second level, as is the scum motivation you come up with. I think it's a simpler and more likely reality based on Ank also being annoyed by content in confirmation stage that he's a person that likes to complain to an extent and doesn't like reading tons of shit in a short amount of time.

Imperium: Which head have I been talking to?

Tammy. I've posted about you more recently, though.

Are you and nacho just talking whenever something catches your eye?

There are others, but these are some things I like from farside. I like that they were trying to figure us out in the neighborhood. I like that those posts, that were nachos, were trying to be read as me and coming off weird. I like that it bothered farside that "i" was talking about town markers I really couldn't have. It reminds me of fantasy camp when empire made a remark about being able to read the nexus/quadz hydra and them honing in on that immediately because their lack of experience with him made his statement ring false. I mean sure she could say this as scum, but if she were scum she'd know I'm town which I think would make her recognize this was nacho because she'd know the post was honest and not think it was Tammy bullshitting reads.

I also like the getting concerned that I brought up my concerns after TD did, and I like the "another reason that will look funny" thing.

Yeah, distancing, sure but I liked the early suspicion on pere in the neighborhood too.

Most of my present concerns come from her not seeming to have read the game recently. I get its a lot of spam, but right about when she voted the aceofspades cuz vezok complained about it, there was a whole discussion about aces use of his role that she missed.

[Imperium]

I think either something's deeply wrong or this is another Advance Wars and I'm not sure which!

I've been slowly getting back into thre roll of current events but I still feel like a lot of my reads are ????

What do you think is deeply wrong? Which of your reads are ???

[Imperium]

Farside' proven gladiator ability is a good vouch for farside town. She is playing extremely differently from what I normally see but that's fine.

I'm trying to look at everything. There are several people who can affect the lynch through, governing, semi-gladiating, double vote, vote thief, acquiring votes through death. I'm not sure every single one of those are town.

[Imperium]

Because I'm trying to get a read on magua.

The question isn't false, MASTIN'S been calling xombie town all game. Why believe on one and not the other?

How does asking me the question help your read on magua? Oh the question is very misleading. I can answer why for you. If someone else can answer the question easily, that is not a good question. Because magua if scum could find the right answer easily, making it alignment non indicative.

Stop spamming the thread trampling through other peoples lines of questioning.

I don't want to pint out all the nonsense you've posted this game so shut up about it.

Mastin has been calling xombie town all game, and has him at the top of his reads list and calling his hood a masonry all game. If magua missed all that, let him tell me so.

[Imperium]

Because I'm trying to get a read on magua.

The question isn't false, MASTIN'S been calling xombie town all game. Why believe on one and not the other?

How does asking me the question help your read on magua? Oh the question is very misleading. I can answer why for you. If someone else can answer the question easily, that is not a good question. Because magua if scum could find the right answer easily, making it alignment non indicative.

You know I <3 you but there's a reason people are yelling for you not to be taken into jail tonight even though you're probably town with a strong role.

[Imperium]

And mastin has been calling xombie town since post 672.

[Imperium]

It is not new, she called xombie confirmed town along with zzzx in post 2112.

Jesus fucking Christ shut the fuck up about it.

[Imperium]

She's super wrong about me, so it's weird, but it's whatever.

The bitmap one is whatever, but the zzzx and xombie ones are based on neighborhood and role stuff apparently.

that mastin is wrong about me isn't the point, and it would probably be less weird if he was trusting the xombie read (who has actual real town sounding posts) over zzzx who has not done anything. But it's the inverse, and that makes no sense to me.

[Imperium]

I'd think you would be indignant when magua ranks higher in mastin's reads than you

My question was not about me/mastin/magua.

And I know exactly why mastin is worried about us. Nacho has told me why and is why he reached out to her after he got a town read.

I'm confident if it was just me, or if the end of day yesterday didn't go down like it did, mastin would have me/us as strong town.

[Imperium]

I'd think you would be indignant when magua ranks higher in mastin's reads than you

Also people who don't know me shouldnt guess at what I'd be indignant at. I've never gotten frustrated at someone being read as more town than me. Reading me as town when I'm town is good enough.

[Imperium]

She's super wrong about me, so it's weird, but it's whatever.

The bitmap one is whatever, but the zzzx and xombie ones are based on neighborhood and role stuff apparently.

that mastin is wrong about me isn't the point, and it would probably be less weird if he was trusting the xombie read (who has actual real town sounding posts) over zzzx who has not done anything. But it's the inverse, and that makes no sense to me.

Yeah well my point is that mastin's reads pre "lol 100% town" were difficult to believe for this reason and it is OKAY to overlook mastin's magic "xombie conftown" read.

That's fine, but why trust one and not the other? Especially when the one you're not taking into account sounds town and the one you're believing hasn't done anything?

Also, beast has a whole vote now.

[Imperium]

I'd think you would be indignant when magua ranks higher in mastin's reads than you

Also people who don't know me shouldnt guess at what I'd be indignant at. I've never gotten frustrated at someone being read as more town than me. Reading me as town when I'm town is good enough.

Not frustrated even when you're taking heavy from magua?

I don't get what you're asking me? I was asking about how magua is taking mastin's two confirmed town reads. That has nothing to do with how I feel about magua and mastin's incorrect reads on me. I don't like being called scum when I'm not, no. But what does that have to do with mastin reading magua as more town than me?

I figure eventually nacho will fix with madtin what he feels like he messed up on, and she'll realise we're town.

I'd like to see magua digging. I wouldn't mind so much taking heat if it was actually geared toward finding out my alignment because then it would feel like he's just town hilariously wrong. Most of my frustration comes from the fact that he's not trying to figure out the game.

I mean I'm not getting lynched in this game unless town loses their marbles, so that's not a concern. Trying to figure out other people is.

[Imperium]

From what I went over this morning, I like ooba*, xombie, vezok and probably farside for town. Feeling less confident about the aceofspades even though I still really like my theory.

* it's a town read, but there's one indicator I want to check to see if present in a scum game to be sure.

[Imperium]

Its pretty much a complicated issue about it.
I feel more comfortable speaking in the neighborhood to discuss than the spam feast which is here.

What are your reads on mastin and xombie?

[Imperium]

Okay I'm taking votes at this time.

I need everyone's top 3 scum reads asap!

I have ace, rach and td as my top 3.

Go and yes this is serious now request

Your dance is so cute

When Sonic "shot" you, why didn't you bother to give last words?

Top 3:
1) TWIE/ace (vote related powers...I always protect ace but I think stealing a vote is more scum favored than becoming DVer. If we can deal with this today, even by lynching ace first, I'd love that, but not as much as I love you)
2) Magua (lurk is strong -- Blonde/twie's slot stole from Magua/House's slot...was that ever explained why? Could be friendly scum pranks. I don't think its a coincidence that both slots are my scumreads to boot!)
3) TSO. I don't know what you're doing, far, but f you disagree with TSO, you can easily swap him with a lurker of your choice.
Bonus) Ceph is racist and wants to kill me ?? It looks like he wants to hurry to night phase so he can do unspeakable things to me

Can you parse this. It looks like you're talking about ace and twie interchangeably.

Hey, your #2 is my tinfoil hat theory.

[Imperium]

crap i didn't mean to criticize your play if you're town here magua. i do want to see you trying to figure out the game which it doesn't feel like you're doing, but i think i was mean earlier and i didn't mean to be.

im sick and cranky and miserable which makes me bitchier than normal.

[Imperium]

ankamius, we're never going to get a td lynch. tried and failed.

you're not even voting td?

[Imperium]

ankamius, we're never going to get a td lynch. tried and failed.

you're not even voting td?

...and your point is?

why waste my time?

He's one of three options we can lynch today; we've been talking about him, and you haven't pushed for him or voted him. So why the dejected tried and failed?

[Imperium]

TSO - How come you didn't want to lynch Pere yesterday?

[Imperium]

Spoiler: Yesterday's wagon interaction on Peregrine

Vote: Peregrine

I'd love a flashwagon but not on myself or Beast. I don't know why the Vyse wagon derailed - his replace-out doesn't make sense.

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

pedit: my man this question is just fr you

VOTE: peregrine

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

I'm not.

I am, and I think anyone reading his switch from you to the mastin wagon should also be.

nope!
let's lynch peregrine.

I'd love to hear why you're not.

Do we have to lynch Peregrine? He's a completely null read.

yes.

No, I don't particularly feel like Peregrine. My apologies.

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i'll type up a town case when i have time.
why not compromise on a null read? TD isn't getting lynched today.

Hey guys, having problems irl, don't want it to spill over in to game, but don't REALLY have time to post right now. I've looked terrible this game and this move is not going to help. I think cephrir is scum UNVOTE: VOTE: cephrir I'll try to explain this when I get back, promise.

I think Cephrir's scum!

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

Still going with Cephrir-scum!

I do not like this interaction Sam-I-Am. Note to self, Stick-With-Your-Gut, and logic and everyone else be damned. VOTE: Solar Wind

My gut said it was Solar Wind all along!

Ceph is almost certainly town at this point.

Cephrir is so town!

Ceph and solars talk was crappy, Solars vote and unvote stinks of scum trying to make something happen and backing off quickly when it doesn't. Ceph's gambit is town.

Ceph town, Solar still scum.

Hi magua! .

And no, no particular reason to have a read on Rach either way, but in my experience scum rach super lurks, though that may just be rach-rach XD.

I would love to lynch mastin today, that would make me happy, it just doesn't seem likely :/.

I support mastin as well!

Ya know what, fuck it this lynch is more likely than a lynch on Solar XD, why the fuck not. VOTE: mastin

Mastin is scum!

Didn't include points on PV but he supports that dying too.

But, even if you feel it's weak - it's still far better than Peregrine.

Because the case on Peregrine is ??? right now and ??? does not lead to a scum lynch.

At the same time, your case on Peregrine is

still

???, and you've clearly been reading the thread! So I'm waiting to be blown away.

Okay.

I am still waiting for why Peregrine is scum.

Not interested in the D1 lynch of anyone I consider to be lynchbait just because they do lynchbait things. That's what makes them lynchbait.

This includes both PeregrineV and TiphaineDeath.

In particular, I see nothing in TSO's 2265 that says TD-scum to me rather than TD-just-being-his-goddamn-normal-self. If anything, TD jumping his reads over like that makes me more likely to read him town because scum just wouldn't need to.

Do want to vote Imperium, though, for pre-emptive buddying, but this is past RVS so I won't even though I should.

Oh, so basically:

My case on TD is, apparently, bad and so we are not doing it.
Your case on PV is, quite clearly, non-existent and yet we ...are doing it?

I'll admit it - the TD case is solidly mediocre. It's still the best thing we've got right now.

TD is town and so we are not doing it. In addition, the case on him is bad.
Peregrine is ??? at BEST and so we are doing it. There is no case on him.

*bashes head through screen*

What you will see if you click above is the interaction once Nacho started to try to push for a Peregrine lynch yesterday. (yes, he backed off, Peregrine pulled that same exact you should lynch me eventually to help town as a town beloved princess in cap com where Nacho and I were scum, we thought he was doing the same thing.)

But, as Nacho starts pushing Pere and Cephrir jumps on, TSO starts ramping up his lets lynch TD, what's the case on Pere. I included the Magua interaction because it's also twitch worthy for the reasoning. He considers Pere lynchbait so he doesn't want a lynch there BUT rachmarie is also lynchbait so I'm not sure why he considered her a fine lynch, so.

Anyway, didn't pick this up in Peregrine's iso but when TSO complained about trying and not getting a TD lynch, I didn't remember him even pushing TD so I looked and voila.

I think this makes him more likely scum. (I'd say definite scum, but in Once Upon a Winter's Night, I thought Beast could be scum for refusing to help me lynch scum Antihero on day one because he didn't like the case on him.)

[Imperium]

Didn't include points on PV but he supports that dying too.

What were you referring to here? Were you referring to Pere supporting a TD lynch? Because he responded to a couple things TD said yesterday, but that's it.

[Imperium]

:/

[Imperium]

Oh my gods the neener neener has me laughing so fucking hard right now I want to call magua town just from that.

[Imperium]

Though Mastin did call Xombie conftown before that, just because I didn't do a mathematical calculation to determine if it happened before you replaced in or if you read his reads list which has zombie as his second town read doesn't mean I'm not paying attention, it means I didn't go oh did mastin do this before or after, which apparently metal sonic did *after* I asked about it.

[Imperium]

...I have a low bar for humor, I admit that.

[Imperium]

TWIE, Heartless, skybird, theaceofspades, TD if any of you could do anything that would be swell.

[Imperium]

Spoiler: Yesterday's wagon interaction on Peregrine

Vote: Peregrine

I'd love a flashwagon but not on myself or Beast. I don't know why the Vyse wagon derailed - his replace-out doesn't make sense.

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

pedit: my man this question is just fr you

VOTE: peregrine

is anyone up for a TD speedlynch

I'm not.

I am, and I think anyone reading his switch from you to the mastin wagon should also be.

nope!
let's lynch peregrine.

I'd love to hear why you're not.

Do we have to lynch Peregrine? He's a completely null read.

yes.

No, I don't particularly feel like Peregrine. My apologies.

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i'll type up a town case when i have time.
why not compromise on a null read? TD isn't getting lynched today.

Hey guys, having problems irl, don't want it to spill over in to game, but don't REALLY have time to post right now. I've looked terrible this game and this move is not going to help. I think cephrir is scum UNVOTE: VOTE: cephrir I'll try to explain this when I get back, promise.

I think Cephrir's scum!

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

Still going with Cephrir-scum!

I do not like this interaction Sam-I-Am. Note to self, Stick-With-Your-Gut, and logic and everyone else be damned. VOTE: Solar Wind

My gut said it was Solar Wind all along!

Ceph is almost certainly town at this point.

Cephrir is so town!

Ceph and solars talk was crappy, Solars vote and unvote stinks of scum trying to make something happen and backing off quickly when it doesn't. Ceph's gambit is town.

Ceph town, Solar still scum.

Hi magua! .

And no, no particular reason to have a read on Rach either way, but in my experience scum rach super lurks, though that may just be rach-rach XD.

I would love to lynch mastin today, that would make me happy, it just doesn't seem likely :/.

I support mastin as well!

Ya know what, fuck it this lynch is more likely than a lynch on Solar XD, why the fuck not. VOTE: mastin

Mastin is scum!

Didn't include points on PV but he supports that dying too.

But, even if you feel it's weak - it's still far better than Peregrine.

Because the case on Peregrine is ??? right now and ??? does not lead to a scum lynch.

At the same time, your case on Peregrine is

still

???, and you've clearly been reading the thread! So I'm waiting to be blown away.

Okay.

I am still waiting for why Peregrine is scum.

Not interested in the D1 lynch of anyone I consider to be lynchbait just because they do lynchbait things. That's what makes them lynchbait.

This includes both PeregrineV and TiphaineDeath.

In particular, I see nothing in TSO's 2265 that says TD-scum to me rather than TD-just-being-his-goddamn-normal-self. If anything, TD jumping his reads over like that makes me more likely to read him town because scum just wouldn't need to.

Do want to vote Imperium, though, for pre-emptive buddying, but this is past RVS so I won't even though I should.

Oh, so basically:

My case on TD is, apparently, bad and so we are not doing it.
Your case on PV is, quite clearly, non-existent and yet we ...are doing it?

I'll admit it - the TD case is solidly mediocre. It's still the best thing we've got right now.

TD is town and so we are not doing it. In addition, the case on him is bad.
Peregrine is ??? at BEST and so we are doing it. There is no case on him.

*bashes head through screen*

What you will see if you click above is the interaction once Nacho started to try to push for a Peregrine lynch yesterday. (yes, he backed off, Peregrine pulled that same exact you should lynch me eventually to help town as a town beloved princess in cap com where Nacho and I were scum, we thought he was doing the same thing.)

But, as Nacho starts pushing Pere and Cephrir jumps on, TSO starts ramping up his lets lynch TD, what's the case on Pere. I included the Magua interaction because it's also twitch worthy for the reasoning. He considers Pere lynchbait so he doesn't want a lynch there BUT rachmarie is also lynchbait so I'm not sure why he considered her a fine lynch, so.

Anyway, didn't pick this up in Peregrine's iso but when TSO complained about trying and not getting a TD lynch, I didn't remember him even pushing TD so I looked and voila.

I think this makes him more likely scum. (I'd say definite scum, but in Once Upon a Winter's Night, I thought Beast could be scum for refusing to help me lynch scum Antihero on day one because he didn't like the case on him.)

Can you explain this post? I'm misinterpreting something here.

*interactions between TSO/Imperium quoted where TSO is against a Pere lynch because it's a complete shot in the dark*
"As we pushed Pere, TSO pushed TD."
"I didn't remember TSO pushing TD so I looked it up - turns out TSO did push TD!"
"And, therefore, TSO is scum."

Like I have no idea how that post was not called out for the shoddiest of reasoning if I'm correct.

It's not shoddy reasoning at all.

My search started because you went "shucks ank we tried to lynch TD and failed" while you weren't even voting him or trying to get him lynched, especially when he's one of only three people we can lynch today.

I didn't remember you even pushing TD, so I searched and found that you did push TD.

What is interesting is that you went for the TD push when Pere!scum was being pushed by nacho. That's when you started making a case against TD, arguing against nachos push on pere and trying to get him to go for TD instead. It continues after I stopped quoting, as nacho does make a case against pere that you dismiss. It looks like you were trying to derail a wagon on your partner by offering up another solution.

This is especially key considering anyone on his wagon would be roleblocked and that PV was actually better off for scum if nightkilled.

When nacho found Peres soft claim and started backing off you were then willing to work with nacho on the lynch and dropped your desire for TD.

That's suspicious and I don't think you for one second misinterpreted the point of my post and discredit it that way. It doesn't guarantee you as scum, but it is a red flag.

[Imperium]

I was thinking about pv's role and a day being skipped if he was nightkilled.

That implies the presence of a VIG and/or another scum team/sk.

Which means the scum team knew there was other scum out there and maybe that's why finding a strong scum read has been difficult. I'm also wondering if his role would be present with only a VIG/1 racist. My first thought is more. He would have been hoping for a crosskill/nightkill in that case.

[Imperium]

Can you honestly say you expected Peregrine to flip scum?

I didn't have a read on pere. I didn't have great feelings about him, but honestly the only time I've ever had a read on him early is when I've thought he was town on day one and both times he turned out to be the serial killer.

And I mean, no it doesn't make you certain scum. I've been there. I've derailed scum lynches day one more times than I can count, but I'm not going to not point it out and try to get a read because it could be coincidence.

[Imperium]

(Now, third parties, sure, there can be more than one, but an actual scumteam? No.)

I don't think there's another scum team. Pere flipped mafia, but I thnk it's possible there are more racists. I mean was his role purely designed for ap to kill him?

[Imperium]

i think you are f16

your tone is fishy

i think you are scum

VOTE: solar wind

If you're talking about the vezok question that wasn't F-16. That was me.

Most players actually ask my hydra who made a particular post before voting us.

If you don't sign your posts, then why does it matter which head made a post prior to be voted? Why should it matter to the voter, and why are you bringing it up as if it matters?

This is a useless question with an obvious answer: if the voter is voting a hydra because a particular head is scummy, of course it matters to the voter what posts belong to who.

My neighborhood is pretty quiet.
If I had to pick one person in my neiborhood as scum it would be peregrine.

This is a lame reaction.

Piping into say I'm fine with everyone posting - nothing pinged my scumdar.

I really think lynching a lurker\low-poster would yield scum D1. Brantz is my pick. And not interested in lynching TD, Vezo or Mask in that list.

I like that.

Vote: Brantz

This is Peregrine's only push of the game. It has nothing to do with any posts that he's focused on during the entire game.

It's not a huge case, but reasoning to push him.

Sorry

[Imperium]

Everyone else doesn't concern me right now as right after that nacho thought the soft claim meant town, but tso had an equally bad case on TD, and was like meh sticking with TD.

[Imperium]

Yes, I know. I acknowledged that in my first post. Peregrine was a beloved princess in capcom which recently finished and he did that exact same thing. When nacho saw the soft claim, he checked with me to make sure it was the same and it was, hence he pulled back due to the claim.

Pedit to tso

[Imperium]

(Now, third parties, sure, there can be more than one, but an actual scumteam? No.)

I don't think there's another scum team. Pere flipped mafia, but I thnk it's possible there are more racists. I mean was his role purely designed for ap to kill him?

i think the mass block might have had more scum utility than the day skip

Ah, so pere was probably planning to suggest his lynch in a day or two and make sure most of town was on it? Probably would have wanted it towards late game.

[Imperium]

Yes, I know. I acknowledged that in my first post. Peregrine was a beloved princess in capcom which recently finished and he did that exact same thing. When nacho saw the soft claim, he checked with me to make sure it was the same and it was, hence he pulled back due to the claim.

Pedit to tso

I don't get it, why would Peregrine do this?

I don't pretend to know why Pere does the things he does. In capcom he suggested his lynch when he was a beloved princess by claiming that his death would motivate everyone and that his death would help town if done early enough. His death, did motivate in a sense I guess, but by skipping the night it gave our team the ability to kill the mason cops without getting any of their results out.

[Imperium]

Add

1) bitmap
3) magua

Mask/ap/aceofspades

[Imperium]

How come our neighbourhood's protection on Beast isn't seen as relevant yet mastin's doing the same to multiple people and it is?

You guys protection basically boils down to too stupid to be scum, didn't fake claim (something that couldn't be fake claimed), explained role calmly - a role that doesn't make him town, and that's about it.

If there's something special about his role that makes him town, might as well out it.

[Imperium]

How exactly does me not voting make Beast less likely to be scum? I presume you're calling me scum here, therefore:

TSO-scum not voting TD-unknown alignment makes Beast more likely to be town ...?

explain.

This does not match up with your post yesterday when you said to Ankamius that you guys tried to lynch TD and failed as if it were something you wanted.

But you hadn't voted him and hadn't pushed him since yesterday at deadline.

If you didn't have a scum read on TD then what was the purpose of the "we tried and failed" post?

And then you're wondering why we're not taking your word for Beast, but you're not actually trying to save him and pushing for the read you feel is more likely to be scum. Also, I posted some things yesterday that bugged me about TD but you didn't inquire about them or comment on them. Only Cephrir did, and I realize in part I'm being a bit secretive, but my neighborhood knows exactly the problem and they apparently don't think it means much as they just said it sounds like derp town. I was hoping someone would replace into bitmap's slot that was easily readable who would read the neighborhood and give me feedback there but :/

But what it boils down to is that you're not actively pushing an alternative if you're legitimately town reading beast and even are slightly scum reading TD.

[Imperium]

I know we won't be voting for FT

It's possible that all are town, but Nacho has his heart set on a beast lynch.

I still have some problems with TD, but I really don't think all the vote manipulator people are town.

[Imperium]

He hasn't made an impact to me much. I hated his early complaint about content being produced during the confirmation stage.

He's not on our list of top tier town, but I'm even questioning our list of top tier town, so.

If there's a second scum in that neighborhood though, I'd think he was it.

[Imperium]

Merlot is a demanding mistress.

[Imperium]

Is beast one of the people being replaced?

[Imperium]

I still feel good about ooba town.

[Imperium]

I think Imperium is town.

TD has logged in as recent as this morning but hasn't posted in 5 days :/

This is a kind of prod dodge.

[Imperium]

And by Imperium I mean FT

/robitussin fog

[Imperium]

Oh that reminds me.

Solar Wind when you posted the vote count you mentioned something about whether or not Ozgin has a vote. He has 1 full vote now.

[Imperium]

CEPHRIR NO

[Imperium]

No goddamnit cephrir you were supposed to not do the stupid thing

[Imperium]

I wanted to log into this game and not have to yell at anyone at all but I knew it would have to happen but I didn't want to have to yell at you after we bonded with small animals

Why the fuck does TD-scum claim to have roleblocked mastin?

[Imperium]

Or, alternatively, what scumbuddy eats enough paint chips to tell TD to claim such a thing? Who does TD listen to?

[Imperium]

Does what Mask said not bother you?

Pedit: Possibly because he did roleblock mastin and claims like I do?

Did you just compare TD's scumgame to your own?

[Imperium]

Cephrir? Please come back. You are scaring me right now.

[Imperium]

I didn't move because I think TD is scummier than I did before. I just got cold feet on beast.

Pedit: I did. Because when it comes to claiming, I am not actually good at playing scum!

You did compare his scumgame to your own I think I'm having heart palpitations.

[Imperium]

I had to go for a walk. What did mask say that makes me want to vote TD because I missed that shit

[Imperium]

I'm sure I don't have to remind you that you didn't want me to claim all my actions honestly in League of Legends, and you witnessed firsthand in Tales how itchy and terrible I got from not having a claim in mind for days, followed by claiming my rather scummy actual role. I have learned nothing.

Why am I scaring you?

Your play regarding claims is due to your fear of getting caught out by errant night actions. No, you aren't (weren't) very creative about them. But you are safe and calculating about them (aka making sure to take actions advantageous to scum while being believable to town). TD-scum doesn't have those qualities. It doesn't make sense to compare his claim game to your claim game even if you group them under the blanket "bad" descriptor.

[Imperium]

The thing I see making beast possible town is that he had conviction that his role would prove him town, which I would hope would be reasoning you would find problematic because that's what he did in sabotage to great effect. If that is not your reasoning for him being possible town, again, enlighten me because you're breaking my heart by leaving me in the dark like this and having my crazy mind assume a bunch of things.

[Imperium]

Ace also has a secret vote that he claimed for absolutely no reason, which is another thing that screams no scumbuddies.

[Imperium]

Thank you Cephrir.
Please do not do this often.
I can't drink to calm myself down at 1pm every day, you know.

[Imperium]

Farside:

What am I ignoring that is important to you?

[Imperium]

Mastin, why do you prefer TD to beast?

Because TD has been a minor scumread of mine the entire game, whereas beast has been a nullish-town read of mine the entire game, where he continues to remain.

...?
Have we talked about his scumreads? Or his claimed actions? How does that fit in with your scumread on him?

[Imperium]

Versus beast, who did town things that I still don't see.

[Imperium]

I'm sorry ;~;

If you turn out to be scum after this I will cry for how gullible I am.

see this is the cephrir I like
not that cephrir

[Imperium]

hey heartless could you take over telling duty for me? I feel too serene to do this td wagon justice at the moment

[Imperium]

Yelling*

[Imperium]

CEPH, YOU SACK OF SHIT

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING

WHAT

THE

FUCK

NO GODDAMMIT WHY

[Imperium]

YELL AT EVERYONE ON THE TD WAGON
THE TD WAGON

[Imperium]

EXAMPLE: VEZOK STOP FUCKING UP AND SHEEP ME
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I SAY VEZOK YOURE WRONG SHEEP ME AND YOU GO NO NACHO YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKING ABKUT AND THEN HOLY SHIT NACHO IS RIGHT

ITS HAPPENING AGAIN
HOW MANY TIMES WILL IT TAKE, VEZOK?
HOW MANY SCUM HAVE TO DIE BEFORE YOU UNDERSTAND???

[Imperium]

no more of that question it doesn't excite me

[Imperium]

I'm glad this game is now over so I can call F-16 on being full of shit about me only being annoyed when scum: Edgar Allan Poe. He knows good and well that's not the tell.

no he doesn't he didn't play that game
I barely did

[Imperium]

hey tth antihero does this f-16 look anything like your respective experiences with scum F-16? No? Man, it sucks you don't believe in meta.

[Imperium]

I keep posting in this game because people keep posting stupid things goddamn it stop I need sleep

[Imperium]

VOTE: fourtrouble

this is your vote for boonskies all over again

[Imperium]

And it fucking hurts me and I hate you all and that's why I spam.

[Imperium]

Posting emotionally as scum has bled into my town game a lot, I'm finding.

Interesting!

[Imperium]

So, I'm supposed to come in here and yell at you all to stop fucking up, but mostly I guess I'm supposed to yell at anti to get off the fourtrouble wagon. Yes, I know he asked weird questions and didn't get what you were doing with nacho, but I don't think that makes him scum.

Mostly will you do what you were doing before and get back on that wagon so when my other head wakes up, I can say I did stuff? Pretty please with wine and chocolates because I kinda want to go back to sleep myself.

[Imperium]

Man, it doesn't make it as meaningful when you do it before I make my pleading post.

[Imperium]

tammy and nacho can you please go ahead and talk to f16 and get to the bottom of whatever the fuck f16 is scumreading tth for b/c idgi

Nacho and I haven't really discussed much about the game since last week before I got sick. I know before that nacho had you as strong town due to role. I've been flip flopping a bit, with a town, maybe not town but not scum vibe before recently settling on town. Falcon won't listen to anything I say though; his more recent posts are indications that he's back to hating me.

[Imperium]

Can anyone explain why td is a town read?
I mean I saw solar give me shit about not being around much since I created this, but TD has said shit all since being shoved in the spot light.

I think TD relative silence has something to do with him being replaced >.>

[Imperium]

This was TiphaineDeath's first major post of the game, with main pushbacks being against FT and Solar Wind. Both of these players had become as close to universally town read as you possibly can early game, and I generally love when pl!years push back hard against the status quo whether I agree with the read or not because it generates a lot of attention (and, interestingly enough, is the main reason people are pushing on him now).

This post is his first major town read, which is on vezok for making a series of posts that are "too easy to jump on". I find this a pretty unlikely reason to give from scum as a reason to town read someone in most cases, but it seems especially town from someone who often serves as lynchbait because he's finding something that happens most often to himself (doesn't temper the ridiculous shit he's saying as town, gets lynched) and using it as a way to read another player. I don't see the scum motivation in providing a read in this way, but town motivation is obvious.

This shift from aceofspades to Cephrir seems town as shit: the worry about looking bad for a move seems genuine (and why would he out it if talking about a scum partner? and if it looks bad because he's moving away from a scum partner, why the fuck would he say that aloud?) and is the opposite of an opportunistic move as he shifted from major wagon with support on lynchbait to a wagon that very distinctly was not lynchbait.

This claim is stupidly stupidly and seeing its existence and tiphaine still getting me votes pisses me off. 1) People claiming they are responsible for lack of kill with conviction is town. The only reason they are scum is if they are setting up a no kill gambit or they are coached into claiming responsibility. TD would not be the leader of a scumteam who decides "we are going to no kill tonight and I am going to claim responsibility". Second, the scumteam is not going to have their scum roleblocker claim honestly on Night 1: roleblocker is far and above the most important role for a scumteam to possess in a role madness game and putting tiphaine in this position is essentially the scumteam cutting both of its arms off. Thirdly, TD's reasoning makes complete fucking sense if town: if scum, they had TD target a town player who screamed "don't target me, don't target me" pretty much the entirety of yesterday, thus doing pretty much the only thing they could possibly do to cast doubt on something that would otherwise be a pretty gotcha claim? No. They fucking would not.

[Imperium]

Ozgin, why didn't you claim or mention your ultimate in #4860?

[Imperium]

Vote: fourtrouble

[Imperium]

I really really really don't think that falcon had any mod information on anyone. I think he was fake claiming most likely because he was convinced on cephrir scum and wanted to push that through. I think trying to figure out why he did what he did for the most of it will result in many scratched heads, and that's really all I'll say about that. If it turns out to be the truth then mea culpa, but I doubt it very seriously.

I'm not exactly sure why we're voting ft. I know that nacho changed his mind on the ozgin slot and thought he was town and I know he's town reading cephrir. Well know is strong, think would actually be better. I do know he's town reading the zelink slot and from his posts here and in the neighborhood, I agree, and maybe TD was being derp town after all.

I don't know what he'll think about the no lynch idea, so I'll have to talk to him about it or maybe he'll check in sometime before I get a chance to do that.

[Imperium]

I'm not lynching cephrir. I'm not lynching Zelink.

[Imperium]

So, FT dies or we no lynch. neither option excites me overly much.

[Imperium]

maybe he'll check in sometime before I get a chance to do that.

I'm psychic and shit.

[Imperium]

Tammy head v/la until friday

[Imperium]

Vote: No Lynch

It's nice to see other people circle jerk for once.

[Imperium]

Although:

seriously there has to be room for the buttfuck somewhere else

[Imperium]

mastin, why should I shoot Andy?

His unengaged posting in thread screams scum meta: when town, he tends to dig deep and provide content no matter what a slog the game is. As scum, he lets the obstacles build up around him and overwhelm him.

[Imperium]

I'd still shoot Andrius despite ooba's endorsement.

[Imperium]

Mmm, maybe not.

[Imperium]

Killing inside of Skybird/TAOS/Ank/TSO with TSO being the weakest of those shots would be fine. Shooting outside of that group at this point is probably suboptimal.

[Imperium]

I actually quite agree with ZeL1nk here - everyone covering for each other here is complete nonsense. I don't see why we're trusting mastin's read on ZZZX, for example. mastin hasn't been a particular bastion of town this game.

Tbh as an outsider pov thats true. But our hood is aweasom

What makes your hood awesome? Why are you so sure you guys are all town?

its hard to explain. But lets say we are pretty damn sure that we are all town due to some interesting factors

"Pretty damn sure"? Then what the hell was mastin going on about with the 100% number?

[Imperium]

I actually quite agree with ZeL1nk here - everyone covering for each other here is complete nonsense. I don't see why we're trusting mastin's read on ZZZX, for example. mastin hasn't been a particular bastion of town this game.

Tbh as an outsider pov thats true. But our hood is aweasom

What makes your hood awesome? Why are you so sure you guys are all town?

its hard to explain. But lets say we are pretty damn sure that we are all town due to some interesting factors

"Pretty damn sure"? Then what the hell was mastin going on about with the 100% number?

I told you. Its complicated

Is mastin's alignment 100% confirmed to you as town?

[Imperium]

Ooba is one of my strongest townreads; the Pere flip doesn't change that.

?

[Imperium]

Ooba's read on AP started out as "want him to be town - think tone is good". This is not a strong town read. It then moved to "could be town - like his positions but could easily see him being a part of the scum group below". That then translated to a compromise vote later, which is a thought process that shows a town read that weakened over time which is not really like a crazy scummy change in position.

[Imperium]

And I see your extended case on him for changing reads and I'd love to respond to it when I'm not on a mobile but I don't really know when that is going to happen and mostly I would be frustrated if you shot one of my better townreads because I don't have time nor tools to formally refute your case.

[Imperium]

Ooba also brings up a good point in that your attack on him talks about weirdness: reads changing too quickly, not syncing up with his earlier reads that well, but doesn't really address scum motivation for why he's making the changes in reads he did. I understand read shift from #3700 on because you fell off for a while around then (again) and its hard to maintain a town read on someone who keeps disappearing. The ace, beast, bitmap list to agreeing with farside's list later is something you treated like ooba gave a preferred scumteam and then switched it immediately, but that's not really what happened. Giving a scumteam is different than agreeing with one: agreeing will have a significantly larger amount of compromise. And ooba going after you instead of beast... why is this scummy? You think he was trying to mislynch the bigger threat as opposed to just mislynching the person he was going to mislynch anyways? Or do you think he got cold feet about bussing?

[Imperium]

Magua sometimes does this thing where he goes "I think your attitude is fake and you are scum as a result". He should stop doing this immediately because he doesn't seem very good at gauging whether attitudes are fake or not.

I would shoot TAOS.
I also have hardcore doubts on Heartless, but I probably wouldn't shoot there yet.