Touhou: MitLoF ~ Makai Mix (Game Over)

[mastin2]

Hey, so I realize that everyone thinks Unzan is a scum ability, but I have mod-confirmed information that it is a town ability.

[mastin2]

its called not reading anything but the last page duh

While I'm stupid enough where I COULD, I'm smart enough that I won't.

I do, however, want all claims that're out there to be given.

And I also want to know why Kagami got lynched on D1, since lynching a town Kagami in what is presumably single-ball (both by the only-one-death-per-night and the fact that with us being Light, it'd make sense for there to be a singular scumteam that'd presumably be either shadows or darkness flavor depending) the first day seems like it'd be something a little bit disastrous. I'd also like to know why people assuming Unzan would be a scum ability let the lynch go through D2. (I happen to 100% know for a fact Unzan is a town ability, but that doesn't change the fact that people presumably SAID it was a scum ability; I caught wind of plenty of people saying such today, so I want to know how much of that was there yesterday.)

And why notscience (who is not exactly prime nightkill material, especially in a playerlist like this) got nightkilled N1.


...If you couldn't tell, I replaced in purely because of this awesomesauce playerlist; I know absolutely nothing about the flavor nor anything about the gamestate.

[mastin2]

Speaking of which, while I can understand Time not being dead in spite of ICness, pie and Curiosity, I have to wonder why you aren't dead, either. This isn't me doubting your alignment; I fully believe you're town with that claim. But when did you claim it? Because if done before today, then that raises the question of why no nightkill. And honestly, I went into the game thinking, "So. We have this totally-awesome killer playerlist. Why aren't they getting killed off?"

Admittedly, F-16/penguin did die N2, but while F-16 in particular is a competent town analyzer, why him over much, much larger, bigger-name hydras?

[mastin2]

Huh. Don't know where I got the idea of F-16/penguin. (Actually, I think I do, and it's from me being an idiot. )

Jingle dieing N2 makes less sense than that; why'd HE die over names like this?
pirate mollie
ActionDan
Dreams of an Absolution (Metal Sonic + Natirasha)
Mononoke (Sakura Hana + Nachomamma8)
purple hero (Antihero + Ms Marangal)

[mastin2]

(Okay, admittedly, we're wagoning ActionDan, butstill...if I were scum this game, players like the above--in addition to pie and Curiosity--would TERRIFY me a whole heck of a lot more than notscience or Jingle, on sheer policy alone. What kind of screwed-up circumstances would lead notscience and Jingle to be their preferred nightkill?)

[mastin2]

I'm momentarily skipping D1 wagons since those are going to be more complex. With the exception of the end-of-day VC:

ActionDan (1):

beastcharizard

Kagami (11):

pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Mononoke

Jingle (3):

Om of the Nom, Ankamius, nopointinactingup

beeboy (1):

Kagami

haj (1):

Time

nopointinactingup (1)

: SXTLHGaiden

Om of the Nom (1):

purple hero

Ankamius (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

Not Voting:

Saki, ActionDan

Here are the names on the Kagami name not confirmed town. (I've removed my slot and the UNZAN vote, since both are town, thankyouverymuch.)

That's actually a pretty dang small number. Of 11, only four aren't confirmed. One's Mononoke, the Nacho/Sakura hydra. The other's mollie. Then we have Alchemist and beeboy.

haj (2):

nopointinactingup, Alchemist21

Om of the Nom (1):

Jingle

Alchemist21 (2):

Curiosity, Ankamius

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

pieguy (6):

Mononoke, Dreams of an Absolution, purple hero, beastcharizard, Time, beeboy

Not Voting:

pieguyn, Saki, Jakuzure Nonon, pirate mollie, ActionDan, SXTLHGaiden, Om of the Nom

That pie wagon looks pretty scumdriven to me.

Alchemist21 (5):

Ankamius, Mononoke, Jingle, Om of the Nom, Cusiority

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

pieguy (4):

purple hero, beastcharizard, beeboy, nopointinactingup

Jingle (1):

pirate mollie

ActionDan (3):

Dreams of an Absolution, pieguyn, Alchemist21

Not Voting:

Saki, Jakuzure Nonon, ActionDan, SXTLHGaiden, Time

That Dan wagon also doesn't look great to me. In contrast, the Alchemist wagon (with the exception of Mononoke--which sorta feels like it'd be a Nacho-bus) looks town to me.

Alchemist21 (1):

Om of the Nom

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

pieguy (1):

beeboy

Jingle (3):

Ankamius, Curiosity, nopointinactingup

ActionDan (2):

Dreams of an Absolution, pieguyn

Om of the Nom (7):

pirate mollie, purple hero, Mononoke, Alchemist21, Jingle, Saki, Jakuzure Nonon

Not Voting:

ActionDan, SXTLHGaiden, Time, beastcharizard

This Om wagon looks terrible.

Jakuzure Nonon (10):

ActionDan, Alchemist21, Saki, Mononoke, purple hero,

Time?

, pirate mollie

pieguy (1):

beeboy

Jingle (3):

Ankamius, Curiosity, nopointinactingup

ActionDan (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

haj (1):

Om of the Nom

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden, beastcharizard, pirate mollie, Jingle, Jakuzure Nonon

The lynch was reached 1 minute before Alchemist21's unvote at #3567.

Now if my slot claimed a false guilty on Jakuzure, then you can be pretty dang sure the scum would eat that up. In particular, purple hero catches my eye, as do the repeat-lynchwagon-voters, Alchemist, Mononoke, and mollie. (Alchemist did apparently try to unvote, though.)

With Jingle as the nightkill, you can be pretty sure scum weren't voting there, too.

Alchemist21 (4):

Om of the Nom, pirate mollie, Ankamius, Mononoke

SXTLHGaiden (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

haj (3):

Saki, Time, Alchemist21

nopointinactingup (2):

pieguyn, Curiosity

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

purple hero

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden, beastcharizard, ActionDan, beeboy, Mononoke, nopointinactingup, haj

Where'd this Alchemist wagon disappear to?

Alchemist21 (2):

pirate mollie, Ankamius

haj (4):

Saki, Time, Alchemist21, beeboy

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

purple hero

ActionDan (5):

pieguyn, Curiosity, Om of the Nom, Dreams of an Absolution, Mononoke

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden, beastcharizard, ActionDan, nopointinactingup, haj

After the results of yesterday, you can be pretty dang sure scum are going to have at least one person LEAPING at the chance to mislynch me. Probably more than that. But this Dan wagon looks like it came out of nowhere, and the latter names aren't looking great to me.


tl;dr version: This is just me picking up random stuff from the VCs, but I'm looking at Mononoke (strongly), mollie (moderately), Alchemist (strongly), beeboy (moderately), Dreams (moderately-weak), purple hero (moderately-weak), and Saki (weakly). It's purely from VCA, not based off of anything in the game-thread, but it's worth giving a blind vote.

VOTE: Mononoke.
Because this sort-of feels like a Nacho-driven scumteam. The general air about the game.

[mastin2]

Oh.

I should mention the town I've gotten. Ankamius (moderate), Om (moderately-strong), Dan (moderately-strong), and nopointinactingup (weak).

Like I said, this is just off of blind VCA. So I'm not even going to compile a readslist. I've got isos to do.

[mastin2]

Oh, heck with it. This VCA is probably not gonna be great since it has no context from isos, but might as well take a stab at it.

Curiosity (2):

Kagami, pirate mollie

pieguyn (1):

Mononoke

Jingle (1):

Time

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

Jakuzure Nonon

Om of the Nom (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

ActionDan (3):

purple hero, notscience, pieguyn

beastcharizard (4):

Jingle, Ankamius, Om of the Nom, Curiosity

Kagami (1):

ActionDan

notscience (2):

beeboy, Alchemist21

Not Voting:

Saki, SXTLHGaiden, nopointinactingup, haj, beastcharizard

This is interesting. beast could be scum. I'll say this, though; there's a maximum of one scum between beast/Dreams. (Both could be town, of course. Just I find it extremely unlikely that both could be scum and cause the reaction here. Dreams from four votes to beast with four fairly town-looking votes.)

Curiosity (2):

Jakuzure Nonon, purple hero

Om of the Nom (1):

Mononoke

ActionDan (2):

notscience, Curiosity

beastcharizard (3):

Jingle, Ankamius, Om of the Nom

Kagami (1):

ActionDan

haj (2):

beastcharizard, Time

pirate mollie (2):

Alchemist21, pieguyn

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

beeboy (4):

Kagami, pirate mollie,

UNZAN

, Dreams of an Absolution

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

beeboy

Not Voting:

Saki, SXTLHGaiden, nopointinactingup

The beeboy wagon has a nice look to it, but both mollie and Dreams hopped off.

Curiosity (1):

Jakuzure Nonon

Om of the Nom (2):

Mononoke, Alchemist21

ActionDan (4):

notscience, purple hero, Om of the Nom, pieguyn

beastcharizard (1):

Ankamius

Kagami (1):

ActionDan

haj (3):

beastcharizard, Time, Jingle

Jakuzure Nonon (3):

haj, Dreams of an Absolution, Curiosity

beeboy (2):

Kagami,

UNZAN

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

beeboy

Jingle (1):

pirate mollie

nopointinactingup (1):

SXTLHGaiden

Not Voting:

Saki, nopointinactingup

Dan's wagon here isn't the greatest. That said,

Curiosity (1):

Jakuzure Nonon

Om of the Nom (1):

Alchemist21

ActionDan (2):

notscience, purple hero

beastcharizard (1):

Ankamius

Kagami (7):

ActionDan, Om of the Nom, Mononoke, pieguyn, Curiosity, Jingle, pirate mollie

haj (1):

Time

Jakuzure Nonon (2):

haj, Dreams of an Absolution

beeboy (3):

Kagami, beastcharizard, nopointinactingup

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

beeboy

nopointinactingup (1):

SXTLHGaiden

Not Voting:

Saki

...The Kagami wagon replaces it, and the names there don't look so great. Particularly, Mononoke and mollie.

ActionDan (2):

notscience, purple hero

Kagami (6):

ActionDan, pieguyn, Jingle, pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Curiosity

haj (1):

Time

Jakuzure Nonon (2):

haj, Mononoke

beeboy (3):

Kagami, beastcharizard, nopointinactingup

nopointinactingup (1):

SXTLHGaiden

Alchemist21 (1):

Ankamius

Jingle (2):

Nakuzure Nonon, Om of the Nom

Not Voting:

Saki, Dreams of an Absolution

A beeboy wagon forms...

ActionDan (3):

notscience, purple hero, beastcharizard

Kagami (9):

pieguyn, Jingle, pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Curiosity, Jakuzure Nonon, Mononoke,

UNZAN

Jingle (4):

Om of the Nom, Dreams of an Absolution, Ankamius, nopointinactingup

beeboy (1):

Kagami

haj (1):

Time

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

nopointinactingup (1)

: SXTLHGaiden

Not Voting:

Saki, ActionDan

...but falls apart, replaced by a MUCH stronger Kagami wagon, and with a Dan wagon (not good looking at all) and a Jingle wagon.

Sooo...my beeboy suspicion has grown a bit from this, as has my feeling that this is scum-Nacho. I'm also looking at purple hero and mollie, and thinking one of beast/Dreams is scum yet not the other. But again, this is a zero-iso, zero-context blind read of the VCs and giving my A. I need to do a lot more work.

[mastin2]

Did a quick skim of purple hero.

Took me less than a dozen posts to realize they're town.

Definitely not scum-Antihero.

[mastin2]

Soyeah, gonna go leave for a bit, but right now looking at:
Mononoke/Alchemist/beeboy/mollie/{Dreams, beast} as a probable scumteam. (Five seems about right.)

Like I said, though, could change after I actually do my iso work. (In particular, mollie's a high-priority sort, and the read most likely to be wrong.)

[mastin2]

mastin, have you read the last 20 or so pages? beeboy's flipflopping on his partners confirmedness is weird, and IDK where the scum motivation for that would be, especially in someone who's not even been here for a year.

Try the last two.

Hey, so I realize that everyone thinks Unzan is a scum ability, but I have mod-confirmed information that it is a town ability.

you should really just go ahead and out it. I find it impossible to believe a town player would quickhammer using a hidden double vote.

Please just trust me? It makes perfect sense if you're sitting where I am knowing the information I know.

For instance, I can tell you that with me now in the game and exerting what little influence that alone has (I'm MASTIN), Dan won't be voted by them. The double vote comes from town. I know this for a fact. Said town player won't go against my will. This, you can also be pretty reasonably sure of.

Also, pie, I've skimmed your defense. I'll give it a well and true, proper read later. But while the post does a wonderful job of showing why you have the townread, it's not doing anything to instill one in me, at least on the skim.

ok mastin lets do this lynch instead of monookoek
VOTE: Alch

Probably will.

[mastin2]

there is a lot of benefit to outing it. UNZAN basically quickhammered. there is no town motivation for that. thus, if UNZAN ~is~ town, there is a very huge misconception everyone seems to agree on about this gamestate; outing it would clear that up and help everyone in the game as a result.

Well if more than a couple people ask, then I'd be more willing, but I AM extremely hesitant to give out that info.

moreover, I think this is the kind of thing you'd use to mist as scum, e.g. by saying they're town and then when you reveal the reason 3 days later it doesn't actually work.

Well, no, not really. ScuMastin tends to give as little info as possible...not enter the game and immediately, before having read anything aside from like ten posts total that she read before getting the role PM, give out a rather controversial piece of information that'd do nothing but draw attention to her.

if you are going to say this, you are basically saying that the reasoning I use for my reads is flawed on a fundamental level. is that what you are saying? bc if it is, I honestly do not give a shit what you think unless you explain why it's wrong

What? How do you get that from what I said? I said, on a SKIM, that it didn't do anything for ME. Skim. Me. Key words, there.

[mastin2]

i am part of the crew who wants unzan outed

As I said, if enough people say so, I will. But I'd still prefer not to.

Because this sort-of feels like a Nacho-driven scumteam. The general air about the game.

Can you amend this with your thoughts? Nacho hasn't been in this thread much that I've seen (which has already been stated a few times)- let me finish this thought in a second.

Given that it's a gut feeling, not really. notscience just sort of

feels

like a Nacho kill. Like, I think of this playerlist, and the name that first pops into my mind for, "who'd want him dead?" is for whatever reason, "Nacho would". The slot's bad wagoning positioning supports the notion as well. It's just my general feeling off of the general aura of the game that tells me that.

So unzan just voted Alchemist
Guess it's not alchemist

No duh. I told you Unzan is 100% without a doubt town, which means for you to believe Unzan is scum you must believe me to be scum, too. I've expressed Alchemist as a strong scum suspect. Thus, it goes to reason that Alchemist is NOT Unzan.

Speaking of which,
VOTE: Alchemist.

[mastin2]

thank gif for a mastin replace-in though

Actually, though you thinking that is understandable, this is actually the first game I've joined fully of my own volition in probably at LEAST a year. (Aside from deciding to teach, I rely exclusively on invitations to get my games. Every game I've been in the last year has been because someone asked me to play it in a PM.) Like I said, saw the awesome playerlist and literally couldn't pass up the opportunity.

Also, both beeboy and Alchemist have shown reason to doubt their votes on my slot but have kept their votes there anyway.

[mastin2]

(Oh. Nevermind. I think the other theme game I replaced into, bork's mini, was me, though I could be mistaken on that.
STILL, though. At maximum, this is the third of the year. When I probably play at least 20 if not 30 or 40 or more games in a year. That says something about how many times people ask me to play. )

[mastin2]

Isoing mollie, on a skim, hard to say for sure, but I THINK she's town.

[mastin2]

second page of beeboy's iso looks incredibly scum, btw.

[mastin2]

pirate mollie
Mononoke (Sakura Hana + Nachomamma8)
purple hero (Antihero + Ms Marangal)
haj/mastin2
Curiosity

I can sheep these as town.

Om of the Nom
Ankamius
Saki

These as scum, not so much. I'd say at most, one. (And I don't really think Dan is scum, either.)

SXTLHGaiden

Took a look; vaguely town.
beastcharizard (town if Dreams is scum, might be vice-versa too)

nopointinactingup/Birds of Prey

Probably town.

Alchemist21
beeboy

Probably scum.


Just my feelings atm. I'll probably be even more willing to sheep you in the future. This is just off of right now. Where I feel about 50% on sheeping you.

[mastin2]

AD and beeboy are neighbors, they were softing masons at first, it was AD's idea
Dreams claimed a pseudoguilty on pie and argued that he's either scum or a mason (this caused us to out that we're masons)

Interest in lynching Dan is now 0%. Interest in lynching Dreams has skyrocketed.

[mastin2]

on 1 hand I can kinda get why she might be having probs cos of organic chemistry but on the other she has said I am 1 of the easiest players to read on site.

And I said you were more likely town than not, off of JUST a SKIM (geez, that word seems to mean nothing to you people), didn't I?

[mastin2]

mastina has posted a good bit with content.

True, I've posted a good bit with content, but it hasn't been GOOD content.

I need to actually do some more iso work and such before it gets better.

[mastin2]

actiondan or beeboy?

Well admittedly I haven't isoed Dan.

But just from the description of his play, and the circumstances, I'm basically near-certain Dan's town.

For instance? This wouldn't be the first time Dan's been in a neighborhood and basically called his partner a mason. It'd be at least his third. (Maniacal Street, House Party.) He and I are similar in that way, I suppose.

In contrast, the second page of beeboy's analysis is scummy-as-hell, soyeah.

[mastin2]

This wouldn't be the first time Dan's been in a neighborhood and basically called his partner a mason. It'd be at least his third. (Maniacal Street, House Party.)

And he would not do this as a scum neighbor because..?

The risk of there being ACTUAL masons, occurring to the mind of a dirty scumbag, would make him hesitant.

Whereas when town in a two-person (or sometimes even three-person) neighborhood, you just ASSUME you're masons, just not named such.

[mastin2]

idk my preference of lynches right now would be ms>beeboy>alchemist>(mollie?)
i have no interest in lynching AD at all at this point i would rather see beeboy die in a heartbeat but want ms dead first of all

Who the HECK has it in there mind Om would be a scum candidate?!?

Town.

[mastin2]

please come in here and tell me AAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL about how completely staying 100000 feet away from any wagons that might actually go to lynch is town

I haven't seen that from Om, but even if I did...

This is me, telling you that town do it all the time. I certainly do; I have wagon phobia, especially as town.

[mastin2]

Om of the Nom (7): pirate mollie, purple hero, Mononoke, Alchemist21, Jingle, Saki, Jakuzure Nonon

this is the only large wagon that

didn't draw the secret scum double voter

FFS, for the last time, that's because the "secret scum double voter" is in fact a Mastin-known 100% town double-voter.

And said double-voter I'm telling you would not go there.

[mastin2]

Getting townvibes from Mastin's posts, albeit with a note that this will change if she takes too long to do the ISOs she kept mentioning.

Damn, there goes one ally.
(I am NOTORIOUS for procrastinating, sooooooooooooo, far more likely than not, you'll lose patience waiting on me.)

Mastin:

Did you respond to my amended post (the one you quoted was incomplete) or just the one you quoted?

There was a difference? Didn't notice.

[mastin2]

How does that make him town?

>Dan is a neighbor.
>Dan posts "cool, let's be masons."
>Dan has a history of treating neighbor partners this way as town.
>The behavior is natural coming from town, assuming the neighborhood is just an unconfirmed masonry. (Regardless of whether it is or not, the BELIEF is the important bi.)
>The behavior is NOT natural coming from scum, who KNOW that it isn't a masonry and fear treating it as such will create backlash.
>Thus, Dan going all "cool, let's be masons" means Dan is town.

Really not that hard.

[mastin2]

SAKURA:

Blow a horn and make a callout to Nacho. Tell him one thing, and one thing only.
Mastin is here.
And she wants his help.

Nachomamma8:

Doesn't have to be much. My iso's not that long. Pick up the key points of the key points, and say them in your own words.

This frustration regarding the doublevote doesn't feel natural either. Why are we supposed to believe her anyway?

Because I SAID so, dammit!

Mastin is defending two scum so far. Maybe pie is right about her

Aaand, when via a combination of nightkill and lynch we continue to one after another turn up town?

Om is town. Period.

Dan is town. Pretty dang sure.

[mastin2]

Bullshit, this is quite an oversimplified and forced thought process

Like hell it is.

That was the EXACT dang thought process I used in AP's Micro.
Y'know.
Where I was a neighbor.
TOWN neighbor.
And instantly started 'crumbing...yep. MASON.

YOU WERE IN THAT GAME; YOU SAW IT THERE.

You know I'm right.

Dan is town.

[mastin2]

BUT IT

DOES

MAKE HIM TOWN; THAT'S THE

WHOLE. FREAKIN'. POINT!

OF. MY. ARGUMENT!

[mastin2]

Saw the flip. Don't give a fucking damn.

Nope. Scum can easily fake the same. Especially AD, who has done it as town before and thus is guaranteed to try and replicate his town-neighbor behavior as a scum-neighbor.

I can, will, and shall FOREVER continue to defend this thought process to the fucking death. It might have been wrong on application, but on fucking PRINCIPLE ALONE it was right. I don't care that short of mod trickery, beeboy is town and Dan flipped scum. I'm saying that I'd have lynched him 100% of the time, yesterday, and Dan 0% of the time, because while the above ultimately was true, there was zero.
ZERO.
Chance of it being true in my mind. That behavior is to me entirely unnatural. It simply shouldn't exist. Scum faking the same? FUCK no. Scum can simply choose not to townread their neighbor enough to trust them, and nobody would bat an eye. If I was in a neighborhood and wasn't townreading my buddy, would my buddy scumread me for it? No? My point exactly. Because while trusting in a masonry is a town thought, the inverse is not on policy a scum thought. Thus, Dan should have felt no compulsion to do it as scum, especially when it had INCREDIBLE drawbacks.

So flip be fucking damned. I was right even if I was wrong.

[mastin2]

that was me questioning your town-read on Om

Om's been a townread for me thanks to where he's been on wagons, the wagon on him did NOT look like it was towndriven, AND most importantly of all, if he was scum then he managed to

instantly

latch onto my EXACT thought process and duplicate it in a way that--no matter how skilled Om may be as a scum player--I simply REFUSE to believe a scum-Om could do.

(Yes, this is where I am in the thread. Yes, I am going to read this manner and respond in this manner. Dealthwithit.)

[mastin2]

anti, wis, take notes before you lose the game for town
all three of the suspects you guys are lining up are without a doubt town

Like this.

Know what I'd have said about this point?

"Hey, Wis. Pie.
Take one fucking guess as to why you live to see D4, both of you, in spite of being masons.
Hint: 'better nightkills' is in no way a valid answer."

And Om basically said it word-for-word here.

[mastin2]

im not budging unless i hear what it is
sorry bro but the amount of times you have been wrong in pushing lynches has made me a doubtful man

Then, there's this.

I wouldn't have joined the Dan wagon, either.

And I'll tell you why this makes Om town besides "because I'd do the same". Because this is a MASON. (Cop confirmed, even.) Claiming a GUILTY. And Om is refusing to vote Dan.

Dan is DOOMED. Absolutely doomed. There is absolutely NO way that he's talking his way out of the lynch. There is absolutely no way that Dan survives the day with a mason claiming a guilty on him. Soooooooooooooooooo, what as scum are you going to do?

Defend him to the fucking death, beyond all reason...
...Or bus the FUCK out of him right then and there?

Yeah. Om'd have done the latter.

[mastin2]

@mastin:

are you ever going to get around to look at the first page of beeboy's ISO (you know, more than 90% of his posts)?

At the time, woulda been low on my priority list. Now, is at the absolute bottom of the list. There's literally nothing less important than that.

Blow a horn and make a callout to Nacho.

Not this again... Sigh. People arent even trying to read me at all.
But ok i messaged nacho on skype again.

It's not that I can't read you. Frankly, I probably could if I had any incentive to try. (I'm just writing the slot off as town for now.) It's that I wanted Nacho in here commenting on some very specific things. Me, my reads, in particular.

Also, Birds could be scum. Titus looked like she might be discrediting rather than inquiring on 185.

[mastin2]

Spoiler:

SAKURA:

Blow a horn and make a callout to Nacho. Tell him one thing, and one thing only.
Mastin is here.
And she wants his help.

Nachomamma8:

Doesn't have to be much. My iso's not that long. Pick up the key points of the key points, and say them in your own words.

This frustration regarding the doublevote doesn't feel natural either. Why are we supposed to believe her anyway?

Because I SAID so, dammit!

Mastin is defending two scum so far. Maybe pie is right about her

Aaand, when via a combination of nightkill and lynch we continue to one after another turn up town?

Om is town. Period.

Dan is town. Pretty dang sure.

Bullshit, this is quite an oversimplified and forced thought process

Like hell it is.

That was the EXACT dang thought process I used in AP's Micro.
Y'know.
Where I was a neighbor.
TOWN neighbor.
And instantly started 'crumbing...yep. MASON.

YOU WERE IN THAT GAME; YOU SAW IT THERE.

You know I'm right.

Dan is town.

these are the posts that bugged me about mastin btw.

You mean the

towniest posts in my

entire fucking iso

?!? THOSE two, of all posts, bugged you?

Just......

No words.

Alchemist actually has been online since my post about AD. And chose not to comment.
~Wis

Playing homunculus's advocate, I probably was online after the guilty yet before the lynch, yet was absolutely SWARMED by real-life stuff, so I kept my posting to the essentials. (Game I just replaced into < Game I am modding, for instance.)

I sincerely doubt that excuse actually WORKS for Alchemist given I was V/LA and I don't think he was, butyeah.

I'm not voting AD right now because of Haj's shit, and Mastin's posts since replacing in don't make me feel much better about that slot. I'll lynch AD if necessary, but I'm with Gaiden on that the slot needs to be lynched.

(Psst. I was the scumdriven counterwagon to the Dan lynch. Because in contrast with Om's defiance, this is Alchemist flat-out trying to get the best of both worlds: lynch Dan bussing if necessary for the cheap towncred, but lynch me if he can.)

[mastin2]

not to mention Dan's reaction to it was fucking ass. he naturally jumped to the conclusion that the result was "bullshit" without considering any other possibilities at all. if a claimed mason gets a result on you, and said mason is not haj-tier at this game, the logical conclusion is not to assume they're faking a result, it's to assume there might be some weird bullshit going on. the approach he took, on the other hand, looks like scum who just want to make the person with the guilty look worse than them.

(Psst. You keep on referring to haj fakeclaiming a guilty. You're failing to think that train of thought through; WELL before lylo, who is more likely to claim a guilty on someone that ends up flipping town?
Just sayin'.)

Alchemist21 (3): Ankamius, UNZAN, mastin2
Dreams of an Absolution (1): Om of the Nom

I thought the UNZAN vote moved to Dreams?

Fine.
VOTE: ActionDan

For the record, if EVER there was a bus vote, this would be it.

(Also, while mollie CAN be scum, not a focus of mine.)

[mastin2]

Mollie they won't claim bc they think conftown means a) they are always right and b) they do not have to work with people. Sad thing is they are not conftown.
Vote back Mastina with me please.
~T

Note that this backing of a lynch on me is identical to how Alch did it. Also note that they don't ask Alch to come back, but DO ask mollie to come back. (This makes me think that if Birds and Alch are both scum, as I now think, mollie is town.)

[mastin2]

Haj's play didn't suggest mastin-scum at all btw, but I'm sure you've still haven't looked at it and are still blindly saying he's scum because he fakeclaimed

(Hint: that's because they're probably scum.)

[mastin2]

im reading town on mastin tbh, why dont u come on board dreams

'Nother townpost from Om, btw. Unless Dreams claimed, again, Om would have no reason to nightkill them. Instead, he'd kill the people he'd actually have reason to believe were a threat. Instead, Dreams--Om's push--was nightkilled. Thus, Om isn't scum.

[mastin2]

there was a previous game where mastin replaced into a scum slot and a similar dynamic happened - as soon as she replaced in she told everyone to stop bussing and start defending each other.

(Psst. ScuMastin never uses the same strategy twice. Just sayin'.)

^the above is a legit rolefish, btw

Demanding a roleclaim isn't rolefishing; it's diving straight into the water and aiming to drag that role out.

[mastin2]

Hold, please.

MY FLAVOR NAME IS SARA.

I need to go check something.

[mastin2]

...The bloody heck's going on?

You are SO gonna lynch me.

I would have counterclaimed Dreams. Because I am ALSO with Sara. (Spelled exactly like that.) But my role isn't Dreams's role.

Since I've gone that far, no point in hiding the obvious in that I am the light double-voter (the ability is named Unzan, which is obviously what it also shows up on the VCs as), and win when all threats to the light have been eliminated. I know UNZAN is a town ability because it's my OWN ability, duh. The mod made an error, though. I switched my unzan vote from Alch to Dreams before I voted Alch. (So by the time you see me voting Alch, I was actually voting Dreams with it.) Today, I cast a blind Alch unzan vote before reading anything. Now, though,
VOTE: Alchemist.

This is also why I've been slow to move my vote around. I've been waiting for mod VCs to show where UNZAN is, so that when I shift my vote, I wouldn't double-up and make it COMPLETELY obvious who was controlling the reigns of it.

I really don't know why I am also with Sara when Dreams was with Sara. I'm going to skip ahead a bit to see if the image/theme song is the same, because this makes no sense.

[mastin2]

No, just went and checked. Different image, different theme song. My Sara has pink hair, not red hair, and is obviously older. Dreams's Sara is a kid; mine I'd guess to be a teen. (The theme song references her as a 'Girl', in contrast with an old man, but artistically-wise, she's visibly older.)

Can someone who knows the flavor better tell me why the heck there are two Saras?

[mastin2]

all cases are in my ISO

Btw, this is high on my priority list, just as soon as I get caught up.

...Speaking of which, realize it's a bad time, but I REALLY should eat something given that I've got basically all day on just three eggs and a cup of coffee in spite of doing some rather-intense exercise, soyeah.

[mastin2]

Caught this in my pedit.

Ichirin's themesong is The Traditional Old Man and the Stylish Girl

This IS my themesong. But I swear, my role PM doesn't say I'm with Ichirin; it says I'm with Sara.

[mastin2]

Back.

Darn, didn't realize I was in prod range. Oops. Won't happen again.

Forgot about beast.

Remember how I said one of beast/Dreams would be scum? Yeah, well, Dreams was town, sooooooooooooooooooooooo...

[mastin2]

ofc, mastin and/or Ank will mist over this by calling DOAA scum

Yes, I would have. My Unzan vote is erroneously listed as being on Alch when it should be on Dreams (if it bothers you that much, I'll bug the mod to fix it by giving the proof of the change in vote), and if I was around, I'd have been pushing Dreams as scum because as far as I know, his rolename counters my own. Like, I'm THINKING that maybe the flavor experts are right about me being Ichirin (or whatever she's called) with the mod having mistakenly put Sara instead, but that IS what the role PM SAYS, meaning that I'd have pushed them to the death for it.

Also, the Birds of Prey discrediting happening right there is absolutely incredible.
Also, also, Om townread's taken a bit of a hit.

[mastin2]

if haj/mastin is somehow town, I'm really going to be fucking pissed.

Dealwithit. I was wrong. I hold absolutely no regrets about that. I'd misread Dan ten fucking times out of ten, JUST on principle alone, because it was the right fucking thing to do. Even if he flipped scum. Don't give a damn. I'd have done it again. And again. And will continue doing it again and again. Because I choose to.

[mastin2]

Yo! Wisdom, any chance you might have overlooked a town doctor healing you since you know 90% of the game thinks you are conftown?

A doc doesn't save a desperado from dying. We also asked whether we would die if we shot town-BP. the answer was yes.

The wiki does not bar that possibility.

Seriously, I probably would not have voted for Dan even after all of this. I'm not sure if I'd think he was town, still, but I'd definitely be off the wagon. Yet while the possibility of role interference would certainly be brought up by me...

Actively questioning the person claiming

most certainfuckingly wouldn't.

I'd go more like, "Okay, so there's possibilities that exist."
Not, "The wiki doesn't say that!" (When the person, who already got the answers from the moderator, and is a mason, has no reason to lie about having been told by the moderator.)

It's discrediting.

[mastin2]

BoP is town unless Titus is attempting to derail my Ad wagon.

~M

BoP was doing exactly that.

Onto me, mind you.

There's multiple VCs both official and unofficial which show the various voters on me. But it should be

really fucking telling

that my wagon NEVER fades, once, throughout basically the whole time I've been here. In spite of me being MASTIN, and basically making the slot obvtown. The wagon persisted...because. Y'know. I was the scum counterwagon to Dan.

And this is particularly saddening to see, since I kinda feel like Titus in Wire. Basically just replaced in. Can do a lot of good. Had wagon thanks to predecessor, and was counterwagon to scum. Could have done lots of good. Town ignored input.

[mastin2]

My best guesses for other scum if AD flips scum like he should are mastin and

Alchemist

. To a lesser extent Gaiden and Ankamius.

Beast

is also scum.

There's literally nobody on this list I wouldn't lynch. (Aside from maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Ank, but even that read's weakened.) So you can always help me "bus" my 'scumbuddy', and vote Alc. Or Beast for that matter.

[mastin2]

And mastin scum should probably mean alchemist town :/

Vice-versa, too! So when Alch flips scum, you can fix your fucking head about me.

[mastin2]

SXTLHGaiden - probscum. Lurker, fixating on haj policy, ignoring my AD guilty. Plus whatever else MS said about him that I never understood.

Psst. Scum would not focus on policy-lynching their scumbuddy like that, especially not when it's a double fucking voter (a RIDICULOUSLY strong scum role mind you given that it brings lylo one day closer) and especially not when there's the juicy guilty on Dan for bussing. (Doesn't mean Gaiden's town. Just pointing out why a Gaiden-mastin team isn't possible.)

nopointinactingup/Birds of Prey - Should be town, as I think this is the famous unreasonable town Titus.

Titus can and has faked this as scum. That tell is old. Way, WAY old.

Alchemist21 - Gut has said scum all game. Will depend on other flips like mastin, and VCA.

So fucking lynch him first and let me, the girl who hasn't yet fully gotten into the game, is a PR, and is an asset in general, NOT get lynched.

Did I mention that aside from maybe this:

Ankamius - probscum. Ignoring my AD guilty, gut, nothing in his posts that I can confidently call town.

And I do mean only MAYBE that, and perhaps on Gaiden (plus BoP as mentioned above), that our reads are basically the same?

Doubt it?

Okay, try me.
Mollie's far more probtown than scum, ESPECIALLY if BoP and Alchemist are both scum.
Saki's not exactly conftown, but in any day except for lylo, we've got essentially a free lynch, there: we lynch Saki, the scum can't kill, so we get a free night out of it. And that's a claim I don't see scum making, since it makes them become a target, AND I can see it from a setup design point as a good role to have. Plus because we COULD take Saki out if we WANTED to (I don't, not now nor any time soon and frankly, trust Saki enough to not care about lylo), certainly not a priority.
Mononoke, the point about Nacho was obviously wrong and I have no reason to think the townread is wrong there on Sakura.
Antihero was town to me in less than ten posts.
beastcharizard is a scumread and has been from my

second fucking content-filled post

. (The first was VCA, the second was further VCA, and it was there beast became one.)
Time's been a townread of mine the entire game.
Om I have as more town than not--there's niggles of paranoia in his later D1 posting, but his previous posting was strongly town to me.
Then there's Alchemist, of course.
That's not going into conftown like beeboy and you and pie.

SAME FUCKING READS.
KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?

(Hint: if you think the answer is "you copied mine?", you can go fuck yourself.)

[mastin2]

Saki

SXTLHGaiden
beastcharizard
nopointinactingup/Birds of Prey

Om of the Nom

Alchemist21
Ankamius

Removed beeboy and Time. Strike = near-certain town, but can lynch. (In this case, harmlessly so.) Underline = probably town, so bad idea to lynch.

Leaving Alchemist/beast/BoP/Gaiden/Ank as a scumpool.

[mastin2]

anyway it's not a guilty this time, mastin is just obvscum

Like fucking hell I am.

also, do you really think mastin would defend her scumbud the way she did?

No, buuuuuuut, to be perfectly honest? I'd defend Dan in a SIMILAR enough way to all but the most trained of eyes (that is, players who ACTUALLY know how to read me, of which there's apparently precious few these days), they'd be indistinguishable. So while the way that I defended Dan wasn't null and was town, to the majority of players it might as well be null. Not sure I can describe the difference, though. Basically, on beliefs? ScuMastin would have known Dan was scum, and though defending against the lynch, would know it to be correct, so visibly crack. Town Mastin vehemently believed that Dan was town, thus, fought as hard as she could to get him saved.

Also, should really be telling to you all that a wagon on me opens up...and no counterwagon, at all, develops.

{mastin, Alchemist, Gaiden, beast}. Om or Ank could replace one of those if wrong.

HEY, WISDOM.
I AM

FUCKING BUSSING ALL MY SCUMBUDDIES HERE

, BECAUSE GUESS WHAT? I'D LYNCH ANY OF THOSE PLAYERS IN A FUCKING

HEARTBEAT

.

(Or, y'know. Occam's fucking razor; I'm town and they're scum.)

[mastin2]

ankamius posts make me want to replace beast with him already

Actually, Ank's posting makes me think that if he'd be scum, it'd be WITH beast, replacing another name in the list, like Guiden. (Key word, though, is "if" he'd be scum.)

[mastin2]

Anti, we thought overnight with pie and we decided that what mastin was doing was trying to defend AD and bussing Alchemist at the same time. That way, he would gain "i replaced in and caught scum" ubercred, and it would give cred to AD too.

THEN. HELP. ME. FUCKING.

BUS. ALCHEMIST.

ALREADY!

[mastin2]

Why not? I think it's exactly the sort of thing scum-mastin would do.
~Wis

It really isn't.
The only. fucking. time. I go after a scumbuddy. Is when I have deemed them incompetent.

Fuck, contrary to popular belief, the only fucking time I defend a scumbuddy is when I have deemed them either competent OR critical enough that their existence is valued deeply. Mostly I just let the scumbuddy drift into the various nulls because that's where they're best placed. (For instance? Pasch in AoT was nulltown because he was an asset, but not a vital one; BROseidon was competent *and* an asset, so he became a STRONG townread.)

[mastin2]

She could then boast "I replaced in, saved the town from the terrible AD mislynch, and lynched scum. Now sheep me as I lynch townie after townie". Do you really think that's not in line with mastin?

You know nothing about me.

You don't know a fucking thing about me.

[mastin2]

there's 2 possibilities for what happened:
1. scum mastin comes in and megaderails the lynch off Dan onto a townie. what would the point of doing that in the most obvious way possible be? she would basically fuck over all of her credibility and make it obvious Dan and her are both scum. moreover, until we came out with the guilty, Dan might not have got lynched anyway.
2. scum mastin comes in and derails the lynch off Dan onto scum Alch. what happens here? she gains infinite cred, can continue defending Dan, and can just lead town to its death. it's also consistent with her trying to push that UNZAN (who is prob her) = conftown.

OR, option three,
MASTIN IS FUCKING TOWN WHO THOUGHT DAN WAS TOWN AND WHO THOUGHT AND STILL THINKS ALCH IS SCUM.

[mastin2]

also, to elaborate more on the previous post, part of the reason mastin is scum is that her defense of Dan was completely irrational and she is a competent town player.

My defense of Dan was COMPLETELY fucking rational and I don't give a fucking damn that it ended up wrong. I've already said it, but I'll say it once fucking more. You could have me in an identical scenario, time and fucking time again, and I will always, 100% of the time, make the same fucking call and the same fucking decision.

flipping that around, she is also a competent scum player. what competent scum player would go about that defense in the most obvious and counterproductive way ever?

Yes, you're actually onto the difference between town-Mastin's defense and scuMastin's defense; competent scuMastin

doesn't

go about the defense in the most obvious and counterproductive way ever.

YOU. JUST. FUCKING. GAVE. WHY. I. AM. TOWN.

[mastin2]

if she is town here, there is something seriously fucked up about this game

Yeah.

I'm quoting it.

+ I hated how she demanded we believe that the doublevote is conftown and overreacted when we didnt.

WHEN I SAY TO FUCKING TRUST ME, I MEAN TO FUCKING TRUST ME.

the difference is that mastin's reasoning is really fucking obviously faked.
she thought Dan was town because the way he played this neighborhood fit what he did previously, and claimed there is "no scum motivation" for doing so. however, any half competent player would realize that scum Dan faking his town thought process is a scum motivation, but there is another scum motivation, which I had pointed out previously (being able to coast until he got caught, which might be endgame if there were no masons in the game)

LIKE. FUCKING.

HELL

. IT IS.

AP's. MICRO.
THE WIRE, WHERE I DEFENDED DGB FOR THIS EXACT FUCKING REASON IN SPITE OF IT BEING WRONG THERE.
INU-YASHA WHERE I WAS FUCKING RIGHT TO HAVE DEFENDED MY NEIGHBORS.

COUNTLESS OTHER FUCKING GAMES.

When I say that I will fucking make the same goddamned call in every fucking game, I MEAN I AM GOING TO MAKE THE SAME. FUCKING. GOD. DAMNED. CALL. EVERY. FUCKING. GAME.

His flip be damned. I'd do it again. No hesitation. Because it was the RIGHT thing to do.

Faked my

ass

.

[mastin2]

if she was scumdoublevoter, it would have been alot easier, and alot simplier to have kept it a secret. She also gains zero to no cred from outting as such, and is more likely to gain more suspicion from outting unzan out the way she did

I thought about it a lot and her play D3, by itself, doesn't make much sense as scum lining up a mislynch. she, like, wouldn't make it any more obvious she and Dan were both scum. what does make sense? her setting up a power play to get her and her remaining buddies to survive to endgame.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
I AM FUCKING TOWN AND YOU ARE FUCKING CONFBIASING MY ASS.

[mastin2]

IMO, it sounds like she has info much like you guys did, but she could have been caught up in trying to catch up on game state.

This was more or less my intention: to make the scum maybe wonder, "Hey, what if haj actually DID have some sort of investigative info, that we just so happened to have messed with, or which haj simply erroneously gambited on?" More or less, anyway. By keeping the holder of the double-voter from being explicit (that is, outting that it's me), yet by saying with absolute conviction it was town, it'd leave scum thinking I COULD be something that would be directly threatening to them, making me an appetizing nightkill. Nothing says 'impressive town replacement', after all, more than getting nightkilled the night after you replace in!

[mastin2]

Please do a hard reset.
~Wis

POT. KETTLE. BLACK!

[mastin2]

she's also unreasonable as scum, to. she also feels alot more sane than normal, ,and that's usually a scum-tell for her

If it weren't for the fact that I don't trust myself to be stable enough for hydraing, I'd totally want to revive the idea of hydraing with you, Mara.

she caught up well enough and gave us her ridiculously bad reads.
~Wis

If so, GUESS WHAT THAT SAYS ABOUT

YOUR

FUCKING READS?

Considering. Y'know. Similarities and all that.

[mastin2]

seriously stop confbiasing pls
its like you just want her to be town and refuse to listen to reason
reread with the mindset that she's scum and you'll see it makes sense
~Wis

HEY, WISDOM.
GUESS HOW FUCKING WELL THIS WORKS WHEN YOU FUCKING REVERSE IT AROUND.

Stop fucking confbiasing. You want me to be scum and are refusing to listen to reason. If you fucking reread with the mindset of me being town with a wrong Dan read you'd see it make perfect fucking sense.

[mastin2]

no it doesnt - nobody is stupid enough to defend obvscum.

Something like forty fucking games this year.

EVERY fucking time this line was spoken about me. (Keep in mind, not a single fucking scum role this fucking year since 172.)
EVERY fucking time. It was used to push a mislynch on my slot. Not once in a random game. Not twice. Every fucking game.
House of Cards. Tales of You. Nati's MtG game. Organic Chemistry. Countless others. This exact fucking logic.

Not a single damn fucking time has it been true.
Fuck, the one time I WAS scum this year it WASN'T true. I was "obvscum" (actually, no, I wasn't; I was busy getting fucking mislynched in Tales of You, so much so, that I neglected every single fucking thing in my life including 172 trying to play Tales), and...oh, hey, my scumbuddies actually DID fucking defend me.

This reasoning is the most fucking bullshit reasoning of bullshit fucking reasoning to dismiss the REALLY FUCKING VALID point against my lynch, ever.
And it happens every fucking time.

[mastin2]

hey mastin

Saw the flip. Don't give a fucking damn.

if zmuffinman was here, what do you think he'd have to say about this?

He would LAUGH at you.

...No, seriously. His wording would be, and I quote (well, I don't, but it's uncannily accurately done),
"lol at those scumreading mastin".
"mastin is town".
And then when arguing with you and wisdom, AKA, The Tales Tagteam 2.0, there'd be lots of various insults to your intelligence, sprouted with various usages of 'fuck' and a "your case is shitty" or two or twenty in regards to your push on me.

Admit it, you know it's true.

[mastin2]

mastin, what do you think of my list?

I liked your earlier one better. The later one I half-liked and half-disliked. By now, it should be fairly obvious which names I like for scum. Alchemist, beast, Birds of Prey, to some extent, Gaiden, outlier of Ank, you get the idea. I should probably compile a readslist of my own when I get fully caught up. Butyeah, that's where I am more or less.

[mastin2]

The fact my reads hadn't been good up to that point gave him the perfect excuse.

*I* didn't use that excuse, nor would I have because, y'know...I haven't read the game so I'd have no way of actually KNOWING this.
*Others* have.

For the record, the list I liked was 5075. Gaiden/beast/BoP/Om/Alch/Ank is an excellent lynch pool. Not all of them are going to be scum, and my suspicions on them aren't in that order (that'd be my earlier post about it, with beast/BoP/Alch near the top, and Om/Ank as outliers), but I absolutely loved that list.

[mastin2]

I see you pushing that mislynch on me mastin.

Dat scum theatre
~Wis

Then help me lynch that damn cheeky scum bastard!

[mastin2]

I don't like how Mastin has been defending her townread on Dan. If you read someone and they flip the other way, you admit you were wrong and get over it. She keeps talking about how right she was "in principle" but that's not worth a damn when you're wrong.

Yes is worth a fucking damn. That's the whole fucking POINT. I don't give a damn that the read was wrong. I don't even fucking give a damn about the suspicion garnered from it which I understand the basis of. I'll defend that decision to the fucking DEATH, because it WAS the right thing to do even if it was wrong.

Moral ground. Principles. There's certain things in the game worth defending far more than your life.

[mastin2]

you this sara?
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Sara

Pretty sure I'm not. The 'Sara' in my PM is wearing one of those brown anime cloaks. The link you gave looks like a sprite version of Dreams's flip. Like I said, mine has a different wardrobe and blue eyes. Not pink eyes.

VOTE: alchemist
~Wis

I'm sorry for all the angry shouting. (You're vote two, I believe, since my Unzan should be the first vote.)

VOTE: Alchemist

<3
(Vote three, I believe. I make the fourth vote.)

[mastin2]

additionally, none of them have reevaluated in any way as a result of the Dan scumflip, despite hard defending him the previous day.

What do you call all of this?!? Me just taking a stroll through spammy lane?

I'd say I've made some fucking progress in my reads since the Dan flip. And this is just from my damn catch-up. I haven't had the time to run a Dan iso or to redo my VCA. Which I'm planning on doing after I get caught up.

Not reevaluated my ass.

tbh I'm being a hypocrite but I see no reason for mastin to claim now instead of all the other times she could've

Because I saw the dead guy claim the name of my alleged character, and me fullclaiming to maybe make sense of the whole thing seemed the best way to get it clarified.

VOTE: Alchemist

Fifth vote, btw, and it's the first possible scum vote.

[mastin2]

it's also extremely ironic that mastin is calling BOP out for "discrediting instead of exploring", when she is sitting there trying to ask me and Wisdom why we're still alive in order to discredit our reads. (and before anyone goes "lolnope that's not the same thing", I've basically admitted my reads until I did a reset on D3 were pretty bad, and DOAA was the designated kill N3, but regardless the fact is I didn't reset until D3)

Uh. Timestamps are important. I said, *before* I read the guilty on Dan, that if I was around, I'd be saying that. In other words, ON DAY THREE, *BEFORE* the reveal, I'd have said, "Yo, your reads are shit. And when you live through the night, you'll know why."

ON DAY THREE, *AFTER* the reveal, BoP discredited you.

BIG difference.
Like, insert my hypothetical post in the place of Om's, and you get what I'm talking about: I call you out, before I have reason not to. Titus calls you out in ways no town player should, AFTER she has reason not to.

[mastin2]

mastin is STILL [insisting] she had reason to believe Dan was town, despite the fact that:
1. her reasoning was objectively wrong, and I had explained why several times that game day
2. said reasoning was proven wrong by virtue of Dan flipping scum.

Yes I fucking am, because FUCK alignments. Dan's, mine. It's the PRINCIPLE of the thing. I had every reason to believe Dan was town, and even knowing he's not I'm not taking that reasoning back and would use it again, and again.

[mastin2]

all of her recent posts have been entirely null to me.

And there's your fucking problem!

Read my damn posts again. They're anything BUT fucking null.

[mastin2]

Are you sure you're not this person mastin: http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Ichirin_Kumoi

I can't be 100% sure, but that DOES look a lot more like her, yeah. I'd be willing to say that the differences between there and the one in my role PM is the differences between two artists, slightly magnified by my describing the picture in words and thus bringing in potential further inaccuracies in the description.

[mastin2]

But again, PM says 'Sara'.

I haven't actually asked the mod since I assumed with such a big in-thread fuss the mod wouldn't miss it and would address the issue, but be right back; that was probably a bad assumption to make, so I'm going to ask to make sure it gets an answer.

[mastin2]

(Oh.)

[mastin2]

Mod clarified; I am in fact NOT Sara, but Ichirin Kumoi.

[mastin2]

YOU KNOW I EXIST TO MASTIN

I know, and I <3 you and wish I could hydra with you, but it was Antihero who gave me the initial and immediate townread. You're both awesome, though!

I'm waiting for you to finish catching up before proceeding, but L4D called re this:

The only. fucking. time. I go after a scumbuddy. Is when I have deemed them incompetent.

Oh, you mean the game where I from the get-go KNEW I was going to get lynched early in the game and asked my scumbuddies permission to bus every single one of them?

In that game, I set

myself

to be the "incompetent" scumbuddy. That was what made it a triumph. It takes a good scum player to survive for the win. It takes a GREAT scum player to have your death CAUSE the win.

in this situation, either she's town and this huge clusterfuck is genuine, or she's scum faking her town behavior.

Yes, and the two are ridiculously fucking easy to read the difference between.

You're not.

You're writing them off as null.

[mastin2]

one of the things he said was typical from you-town is that if you misread someone, no one cares about it more than you do.

Yes, I do. There's a REASON I want to look a whole heck of a lot more into Dreams, and iso Dan, and do the VCA again, among other stuff. In-game, I care. But out of game, I don't care. And this is a beyond-the-game thing. I don't CARE that the Dan read was wrong. I'd stick by it again in identical situations, time and time again. Because on PRINCIPLE, it was the right thing to do.

I really don't know how I can explain that any more clearly.

[mastin2]

More or less caught up, but I've used up my mafia energy.

I think that took me eight hours to do. (Well, that amount includes the break I had, butstill. I think I started at something like 1 for this game and it's now 9, soyeah.)

Readslist and other analysis will have to wait for another day. I'm all mafiaed out right now; that catchup took too much.

[mastin2]

Also, g.

[mastin2]

*F.

Now g.

[mastin2]

Getting an in-thread post to acknowledge the prod. I'm back here, and won't be staying for terribly long. (I'll be here 'til midnight, since I'm listening to a radio program, but after that I want a midnight snack/meal, and then once I return from that, my modded game has priority over this one. I'll probably have enough time to spare after

that

to come here and

finish

the catchup, but I'm not going to finish it right now.)

I have to go now but really quick, if you're supposedly so easy to read, how should I go about reading you? what is the major thing I am missing in your posts this game that I have never been able to find all this time?

Well...to be perfectly, 100% honest...I've not been scum in a situation like this for so long that I'm not sure I can give you a fully-accurate answer. Certain things in my meta are likely to have not changed at all, and this is what I'm basing the below on, but others could have if I actually were scum here. (I really dunno.)

For a start? ScuMastin has one goal, and ONE goal only: Control. Everything she does is focused on that mission objective, to control the town. Town Mastin has no such focus, thus, is chaotic. This is most noteworthy in the catchups. ScuMastin reads ahead and with daychat has scumbuddies she asks to keep her informed (only true with daychat, though, which while I have a gut feeling is probably in the game you never really know), because when she reads posts, she's looking for material to manipulate, and foresight while pretending to not have a vision of the future is a good way to do that. Town Mastin

occasionally

does this, yes, admittedly, that is true. Yet scuMastin does it more often. Town Mastin when catching up will comment on every little thing that catches her interest; scuMastin is more technical and precise. So it's really the difference between good and evil, chaos and order, whimsical and planned, emotional and logical. Town Mastin is simply put not in control of the game. (IF town-Mastin IS in control of the game, she will announce as such and be GRIPING about it, moaning about how she most certainly doesn't WANT to be in control of the game because to a town-Mastin,

being in control of the game is

too much responsibility

on her mentally-fragile mind.) ScuMastin succeeds in gaining control of the game.

There's more to it than that, of course. I'm missing a ton. But however good at faking my town self scuMastin may be, she cannot (as far as I know, anyway) duplicate ALL those trends at once. Her scum agenda shows through. And you know why? Because scuMastin doesn't even need to look town. She can appear to be scum to a lot of players, and she STILL won't get lynched. By a combination of reputation and misdirection, she's capable of making it so that even if you scream that she's obvscum, she'll never be lynched without a role guilty basically. Because with CONTROL of the game, she can do that.

Really, all you need to do is to compare the emotions I faked in L4D (and yes, those emotions were VERY OBVIOUSLY FAKED) to the very, very, VERY real emotions I held in Tales of You. That's the difference. In L4D, they were "close enough" to do their job: they kept me from being lynched, yet were transparently obvious. Because in that game, I didn't need them more realistic; I had control of the game by letting myself be lynched. In Tales, well, you saw that. My posting was literally overwhelmed with genuine emotions. The closest I've gotten as scum to using legitimate emotions is Anything Goes...because my emotions

were

legitimate, because I

legitimately

believed APBros were somehow scum. Yet in all my other emotional outbursts that game, they were faked and rather obviously so. I controlled people by arguing repetition and forcing things through when needed...yet also showing those remorseful emotions when needed to make it appear at least superficially that I wasn't just scum strongarming. (When...I was.)

The difference is pretty dang strong.

I'll address 5424 and onward when I return.

/gotta eat.

[mastin2]

Right, so never gonna get caught up if I start from where I last read (wherever that was), so am going from today's start. (If there's something groundbreaking from before then, let me know.) For the time being, I'm not using my double-vote since frankly, you're a bit reckless. I VERY easily could have moved my double-vote to BoP yesterday and made that lynch happen prematurely, without you being aware of it. There are times where I'm too busy to post, but I've read JUST enough where I'd be able to vote. Since an in-thread vote ruins my reading placement, I'd use an anonymous vote which'd you'd be unaware of. Mind you, it'd be on a scumspect (for instance, I almost cast a silent vote on beastcharizard but opted for the no-second-vote-right-now approach), but it's still not something you can fully predict.

I'm also not sure (given mastin/Om team) why the hell mastin would completely derail the Dan lynch in favor of Alch and then proceed to bus BOP. she would have lost all her cred by going about it that way; bussing BOP from the get go would be more optimal. I wanna reread her BOP push and make sure I got the timing of this right.

I pushed BoP as scum basically IMMEDIATELY after they replaced in if memory serves me. Their posting was scumposting, and very obviously so. If I wasn't on the weekend V/LA during the time that the lynch occurred, you can bet your ass BOTH my votes would have been there, not just one (or, ultimately, none).

I also absolutely hate the fact she's shut down and done jack fuck recently (even taking weekend VLA into account).

Alignment-irrelevant, given that the ONLY place I haven't neglected (and even THEN, that's debatable; there were sections where my VCs didn't come as fast as they should've) is my modded game.

Generally, I prefer to limit myself to 3-4 games, but I accidentally let myself get double that in obligations. (Search for threads I've posted in that're mafia games and look for how many aren't ended. It's not a measly 3-4.)

[mastin2]

Ah, screw it.

Submitting a vote on beast.
While I do this.

Vote: DrippingGoofBall

.

Because I don't think this is townposting-DGB.

[mastin2]

at the same time I think part of me just wants mastin to be town this game bc I've misread her the past like 3 or 4 times @_@

You know, I've

said

this to you time and time again:
When in doubt, townread Mastin; it'll make everyone's lives easier.

1. are you really that sure Alch was scum? think about it from a purely objective POV.

Nope! Not sure in the least.

2. you were interested in why Jingle died, right? I figured out one possible reason. let's assume Time town for the sake of this argument. now, note Jingle crumbed an inno at the start of D2, and had expressed suspicions of several players throughout that game day. what's the conclusion?

Maybe-PR-killed, maybe killed-for-suspicions?

You're not exactly being clear, here.

[mastin2]

it struck me overnight Saki's role is basically a role that would punish scum for getting a successful mislynch in. this is coming from the same mod who yelled at me after a game where I used Town Restless Spirit bc it had that same effect. but I'm not sure if that means anything

If it comes down to it, we ARE on evens and can pursue this line if we want to.

believe it or not, I am being a paranoid fuck right now and think there is a nonzero chance purple is scum.

I promise you, pie.
I will not bulldoze you on any read.
ANY read.
I will not exert my influence, LEAST of all right now.
You have my word that I will not try to override you on anything.

...

Except

this.

Curb your paranoia; purple hero is town. 100%. You think they're near-certainly town, but screw near-certain; they ARE town. It's the ONE read I'm not backing down on. 'Kay?

[mastin2]

PEDIT: No anti was part of the necromancer mastin scumhydra and he had a wildly different playstyle and tone imo

No, we were town.

Also, beast IS scum.

VOTE: beastcharizard.
(Both my votes remain on him.)

[mastin2]

does anyone want to lynch beast instead?

Given I'm 100% null on Om and scumreading beast?

Yeah.

[mastin2]

I'm thinking back to the one game I had where mastin actually *was* scum and her "reads" in that game were overall pretty shit and blatantly manipulative.

Aaaaaaaaactually, when I'm scum--and

especially

in

THAT

game--my reads are suspiciously

NOT

shit (there was a time where Mastin being "too right" was considered a scumtell...for good reason), though you're right that they're manipulative.

...Here they were shit and now are only semi-shit.

[mastin2]

pirate mollie/St. Constantine the Hermit <- strong townread from before + Dan/BOP interactions. I don't like that Constantine is doing fuck all, but I'm not really worried about it.
SXTLHGaiden <- read from before + Dan trying to take a shit on Sakura's Gaiden read is indicative of this
Alchemist21/DrippingGoofball <- I really don't see this slot being scum at all. there are a lot of subtle things I think were more likely to come from a town player than a scum player, a lot of which I had pointed out back on D3; there is also the issue of how he replaced out.

I feel like there is something huge I've been missing this whole time, but I can't find out where :<

Well, I don't have the answers. But IF (this is a big, whoppin' huge, freakin' MASSIVE 'if') you're right about missing something, I'd guess it'd be one of the above.

But otherwise...I still want to lynch beast.

[mastin2]

of those in that list, I think Om is very, very likely scum here

Willing to trust you on this, should be noted. I don't particularly believe it (though at this point, apathy means I wouldn't say I disbelieve it, either), but I'm willing to trust you on it all the same.

[mastin2]

Pie, the answer to both is no, I don't disagree with them. Nor do I particularly agree with them. They're there. They're your reasoning. I'm willing to trust your reasoning. Said reasoning doesn't particularly resonate with me, but it's not anti-resonating with me, either, meaning there's no reason not to trust it. Like I said, I'm following you. But you did ask me this time, essentially, "if I'm off on any of these, where would it be?", and that's my answer from my own opinion. That make sense?

[mastin2]

Said reasoning doesn't particularly resonate with me, but it's not anti-resonating with me, either, meaning there's no reason not to trust it.

if you're town, can you please just stop with this?

No?
Like...it's SUPPORTING you. It's not bringing your reads down at all; it's doing the opposite and trusting them.

I mean, I suppose in theory I could just stop interacting with you about my trust in your reads, but I'm preeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure you wouldn't like that. This is me, supporting you. I don't know how else I can support you; this is just how I, well, do it.

I feel like you're just trying to set up to discredit my reads via "pie usually uses weird reasoning that doesn't make sense as town", given you're not the first to have that kind of sentiment at all.

Well, uh, pie...you kinda...do use weird reasoning that often doesn't make sense. (I'm the exact same way, mind you. Well-documented fact. As town, name a game where I was using not-weird reasoning that made sense. For every rare instance of it, there's ten where I don't and two where using it comes from scum.) Doesn't make the reasoning

wrong

, though. Just makes it weird.

you just saw me fucking nail BOP, what exactly is it that makes this particular argument not resonate?

It just doesn't make an impact on me one way or the other. I don't feel opposed to it, but I don't feel attracted to it, either. I really don't see how that's so hard to understand. I get where you're coming from. I'm trusting you on it being right. But it, personally, doesn't influence me. I can't tell you why it doesn't. It just doesn't. Just like I wouldn't be able to tell you why it would resonate with me if it did. It just would. (Okay. So I suppose in the case of resonating, I can point to areas that resonate more than others, but point still stands about a lack of resonance. If I had anti-resonance, obviously I'd be able to point out where, but a complete and total absence of resonance either direction means...there's literally nothing there that I can say. It just is how I feel.)

[mastin2]

I refuse to believe you actually think this.

Pie, take the damn compliment as what it's meant to be, a damn compliment! When I say you use "weird reasoning, but weird != wrong", what I'm basically doing is comparing you to me in my finer moments. The HIGHLIGHT of town-Mastin is crazy logic that's actually right, "right for the wrong reasons", as, say, Cephrir may put it (because he's a frequent victim of it, getting scumread correctly by me for reasons he sees as massively off-base). In a sense, when I'm at my prime, I make weird reasons that're correct and am frustrated when people don't trust me about it.

...So when I say you're using weird reasoning

and I'm choosing to trust you

, that's the

greatest sign of devotion I can give

. (Because when I use weird reasoning and someone like, say, Nacho chooses to trust me, it's the greatest show of devotion THEY can give ME.) How can I put it? It's my own personal culture that your reasoning makes me empathize with because I see your reasoning as being something that fits into my own culture, but you don't see yourself as part of that culture. (Okay, that probably makes less sense.) But basically...

2 games ago in Quickness Mafia, when you were town, you said I was playing a "top-form town game".

You still are. Weird reasoning doesn't mean you're not. Rather the opposite, it means that you ARE.

You're basically saying that my reads this game, which I've laid out in the most transparent as fuck way possible if you so much as fucking skim my ISO looking for posts where I case, are worse than reads in that ^ list which basically amount to "town as fuck compared to baseline, is generally being proactive." and having only 1 scum read.

No, I'm saying that I'm trusting your reads NOT to be that bad AND to be good. Like I said...your reasons are clear, sure, but they're crazy to me. Yet crazy is part of the reason why I'm trusting them. I really wish that made more sense, but, uh...
...Think me? Like, I dunno, Tales-me. I asked for trust about AP and Nacho being scum. People thought I was crazy. I wasn't; I was right. So, here, with you. Your posting. I think you're crazy. But instead of, in ignorance, thinking that means wrong, I know from HARD firsthand experience it's probably not, which is why I'm trusting you.

Or to put it another way. I physically cannot value thoughts that don't resonate with me. It's impossible. I CAN, however, value the READS said reasoning

produces

, AND the player behind said reads, following that. In other words, think of me as a literal sheep, following a shepherd. You, the shepherd, as a person, have thoughts of a person, whereas me, the sheep, have the thoughts of an animal. Two different wavelengths, and yet I trust you to save me from the wolves all the same. (Okay, so that probably is not the best of metaphors, but it conveys the idea.)

TO THE REST OF TOWN: Please read this interaction and make sure mastin actually fucking follows through when she says she's willing to trust my reads. If she is scum, she is planning on doing exactly the opposite - backtracking on it and hoping no one calls her on it. Please don't allow her to do that, just please fucking don't. That's all I ask, really.

I guarantee you I'll follow this, but if you're that concerned, best not leave any wiggle room on the subject at all.
"Huh. What do you mean, wiggle room? My reads are quite clear!"

About that.

They're kinda...not. Oh, don't get me wrong; the reads themselves are clear. What order you'd LYNCH them in isn't. If memory serves me, you've got three names in the scum section, but no order attached to when they're lynched.
And that applies to all sections above the scum section, too. I could very, VERY easily as scum right now follow the literal letter of your posts and yet not the intention by dodging as many scum as possible by throwing in deviations from the list wherever it is reasonably plausible to see a town player "accidentally" reading your post to mean doing things in this way or that way.

Not sure if this makes sense, but basically, just take my word for it. If I was scum, I could manipulate your readslist from the grave and not a soul would suspect it because as far as they could tell I was following your will or even if not, making reasonable and understandable deviations from it. As town, I can make those same deviations, only by accident rather than design.

So your readslist COULD use a distinct, hardline order to it. "This, and if X happens, this. And if X happens, this. If Y happens instead, this."
As much as possible so there's as little ambiguity as possible.

[mastin2]

tl;dr:
"I don't understand you, but I'm following you anyways" isn't a form of reducing reads...it's the greatest form of ELEVATING the reads onto a pedestal of trust and devotion.

[mastin2]

pirate mollie/St. Constantine the Hermit <- strong townread from before + Dan/BOP interactions. I don't like that Constantine is doing fuck all, but I'm not really worried about it.
SXTLHGaiden <- read from before + Dan trying to take a shit on Sakura's Gaiden read is indicative of this

Alchemist21/DrippingGoofball <- I really don't see this slot being scum at all. there are a lot of subtle things I think were more likely to come from a town player than a scum player, a lot of which I had pointed out back on D3; there is also the issue of how he replaced out.

Saki
beastcharizard
Om of the Nom

Hey, pie, this is EXACTLY what I meant by not leaving clear instructions. We lynched beast; he flipped town. You shot Om; he flipped town. Soooooooooooooooooooo, now what?

Vote: Saki

(x2).
That?

Like...basically the best idea I have is to work my way up, Saki-DGB-Gaiden-Constatine.

If the dead PT (I'm assuming it's a PT) isn't spoilered (or, heck, even if it is), you might be ranting at how I'm clearly not following your list, but this is what I have to work on, soooooooooooooo, I'm doing the best I can.

[mastin2]

mastin, why are you still alive? You should be dead.
I know that if I were scum, you would have been NK'd long ago. What scum team lets you live until day 6?

Hmm...these words sound familiar*......

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall.
(x1; UNZAN remains on Saki.)

*Speaking of which, BoP was hilariously,

hilariously

pushing my wagon as an obvious counterwagon to Dan very, very blatantly so.

[mastin2]

(That said, if you

really

want an answer, I can give one, even though it's pretty dang obvious.)

[mastin2]

unless you want to lynch him and take the reverse-beloved princess deal right now. which might not be a bad idea.

I'm keeping the option open. I'm not sure what I want to do, yet. Give it time. (Maybe research if I can squeeze the time in. Can't today, since Friday = relatives over and all, but might do some analysis.)

[mastin2]

Hey mastin didn't you say DGB was town before? I remember asking you how to read DGB.

Quite the opposite, I've been calling DGB scum the whole game.

[mastin2]

Didn't you say you agreed with pie about DGB making no sense as scum because alchemist replace out and what not?

Stop getting it backwards, Sak! That's one of the three reads that I

dis

agreed on but was willing to trust him about.

[mastin2]

I guarantee you I'll follow this

, but if you're that concerned, best not leave any wiggle room on the subject at all.
"Huh. What do you mean, wiggle room? My reads are quite clear!"

Bold is mine.

We playing the bold game? I love the bold game! It's always fun~
(Especially since I'm nearly undefeated in it!)

TO THE REST OF TOWN: Please read this interaction and make sure mastin actually fucking follows through when she says she's willing to trust my reads. If she is scum, she is planning on doing exactly the opposite - backtracking on it and hoping no one calls her on it. Please don't allow her to do that, just please fucking don't. That's all I ask, really.

I guarantee you I'll follow this, but if you're that concerned,

best not leave any wiggle room

on the subject at all.
"Huh. What do you mean, wiggle room? My reads are quite clear!"
About that.
They're kinda...not. Oh, don't get me wrong; the reads themselves are clear.

What order you'd LYNCH them in isn't.

When I said that pie's list is ambiguous, I meant it's damn ambiguous. I AM following it, to the best that I can. Saki's at the bottom. DGB's second-to-the-bottom. As far as I know, Saki would be pie's preferred lynch, and we wouldn't lose anything from it. As far as I know, DGB would be pie's secondary option. As far as I know, pie (tunneler as pie may be) wouldn't focus ENTIRELY on just ONE candidate and probably would have two, no more nor less. (No more is a definite. No less is a bit of an assumption, admittedly, but one that I think's true.)

I AM following pie. I'm just not sure which pie to follow, because pie WASN'T clear, there WAS the ambiguity, and pie DIDN'T get to clarify.

[mastin2]

pirate mollie/St. Constantine the Hermit <- strong townread from before + Dan/BOP interactions. I don't like that Constantine is doing fuck all, but I'm not really worried about it.
SXTLHGaiden <- read from before + Dan trying to take a shit on Sakura's Gaiden read is indicative of this
Alchemist21/DrippingGoofball <- I really don't see this slot being scum at all. there are a lot of subtle things I think were more likely to come from a town player than a scum player, a lot of which I had pointed out back on D3; there is also the issue of how he replaced out.
Saki
beastcharizard
Om of the Nom

Om's dead, was town. Beast's dead, was town. Saki's alive, and has one of my votes. DGB's next on the list, and has the other.

As I said. As far as I know, that's following pie.

[mastin2]

Well, at least I get to see the dead PT for once in a long time. And Wisdom/pie's ranting.

Butyeah. This was an INCREDIBLY scumdriven lynch.

[mastin2]

DrippingGoofball (2):

beeboy, mastin2

mastin2 (5):

Saki, St Constantine the Hermit, DrippingGoofball, Sakura Hana, Aronis

Saki (2):

UNZAN

, purple hero

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden

Sakura's obviously town if by nothing else then pie trust.
I think Gaiden is, too. Why? Well, simple. Gaiden not only stayed off the wagon,

but

also

asked Sakura to get off. Gaiden wanted time to analyze.

[mastin2]

Basically, though it's not something beyond scum's ability to do, Gaiden could have easily hopped onto my wagon at any point, with literally no suspicion at all at having done so. More than that, even if Gaiden didn't get on the wagon, Gaiden could have supported it or been apathetic to it or just not mention it at all. Instead, Gaiden fought against that. Though that could theoretically be in the attempt to earn towncredit (and, hey, I DO think Gaiden's town for it!), I don't think so. I made it clear I wasn't convinced that Gaiden was town, so Gaiden doing this certainly isn't something I can see Gaiden thinking would sway me. (Even though it did.) Plus, the lynch SHOULDN'T have gone through, even though it did (guys, my unzanvote was unlimited meaning I COULD USE A DOUBLE VOTE IN LYLO; you do NOT give that power to scum), so it's not like Gaiden's resisting the lynch of a town player that Gaiden knows will flip town, because as far as Gaiden was aware, I wouldn't have BEEN lynched.

[mastin2]

DrippingGoofball (2):

beeboy, mastin2

mastin2 (5):

Saki, St Constantine the Hermit, DrippingGoofball, Sakura Hana, Aronis

Saki (2):

UNZAN

, purple hero

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden

Sakura's obviously town if by nothing else then pie trust.
I think Gaiden is, too. Why? Well, simple. Gaiden not only stayed off the wagon,

but

also

asked Sakura to get off. Gaiden wanted time to analyze.

Should be mentioned, Aronis is derp, but I do like pie's logic for him being town. I don't see what would've been essentially a scum captain using their role the way they did, and it doesn't make much sense from a design-perspective.

beeboy is also town, for more than just being Dan's neighbor. He is also town because he was interested in the DGB lynch and did not go onto me when he has shown a willingness and tendency towards being on the lead wagon of the day.

[mastin2]

FURTHERMORE,
Saki is probably scum because Saki was open to the idea of being lynched today, and yet, did not unvote me when I was in danger of being lynched. Additionally, Saki was one of the two counterwagons to me.

DGB is probably scum because DGB was the OTHER counterwagon to me, DGB's play simply hasn't been her town self, and her whole general attitude towards me and logic behind the push there simply reek of being scum. Not to mention, how her thoughts, "Hey, mastin, why aren't you dead yet?" basically perfectly reflect that of BoP, and among them? DGB hasn't done any VCA. She and Titus (and sometimes me) are the QUEENS of VCA; she didn't bother to look to see that I was the counterwagon to Dan.

Constantine is the wildcard here. He's scum if there's three scum left, but otherwise, not so sure.

[mastin2]

Basically, I don't know who Constantine is, but in a similar vein to DGB, Constantine has done absolutely

nothing

productive the whole damn game, essentially just "being" there and not actually doing stuff, again like DGB hasn't.

[mastin2]

DO NOT LYNCH GAIDEN!

[mastin2]

Saki is probably scum because Saki was open to the idea of being lynched today, and yet, did not unvote me when I was in danger of being lynched. Additionally, Saki was one of the two counterwagons to me.

if that's the case saki made the dumbest fakeclaim ever and i will point and laugh at him

It might not be his idea. Remember how bork gave Mac a Miller fakeclaim in that one mini you were in?

GIF I distinctly recall being involved somehow in that game (probably as a backup mod), and the thought crossed my mind that a similar thing exists here. The mod gave a fakeclaim to scum that scum would absolutely not want, specifically so that scum truthfully claiming it would get towncred from the "no scum'd be that stupid" card, more or less.

Or in other words, GIF's the type of mod to go "fuck mod meta".

[mastin2]

My lynch order should be fairly clear.

Be warned that 2 or even 3 scum is possible if I'm remembering the number of flipped scum correctly (might not be).

But the lynch order should be Saki-DGB-Constantine.

[mastin2]

As for purple hero, it should be pretty plainly obvious. Lynching purple hero is, frankly, playing against your wincon to the point where you should be modkilled if town. They're that strongly town. I can't explain it if you don't already see it. Just trust me.

[mastin2]

mastin2 (3): Saki, Birds of Prey, SXTLHGaiden

+pirate mollie at a point,
+Time +Alchemist/DGB earlier.

My original Dan-C-wagon is nearly identical to the current wagon.

So like I said, scumdriven.

[mastin2]

Wish I had more to say, but I really don't. :/

[mastin2]

Uhm.

You should copy it to confirm it exists and isn't a fakeclaim.

[mastin2]

I do believe the claim, though. I can see it working.
Desperado would likely become "dies if shooting scum, lives if shooting town" or might have it so that it goes one step further, reversing the vig to a doc, "dies if protecting scum, lives if protecting town". (That actually sounds like a pretty plausible interaction, actually.)

[mastin2]

Transform: At night, you may transform to your target. You will learn your target's role and get a 1-shot of your target's ability. You may not transform and use your acquired 1-shot ability at the same time.
^Reversed is:
Everyone learns your role and/or gains a 1x of your ability, I'd think.

Spring is here!: During the night, you visit the player to announce that spring is here. The target will be notified with a PM.
^Not as sure about this one. If there were any break in the narrative, it'd be here.

Gatekeep: During the night you may keep your target safe. You will rolestop your target but also you will roleblock the target.
^Might reverse it into a vig, and/or make the target into a lightning rod. Or more likely, actions both always succeed when targeting, AND the player gets a strongman-modifier and has their own action always succeed.

So I can definitely see it.

[mastin2]

Versatile: Yumeko is good at a lot of things. During the night, she may either inspect someone's alignment, track someone, or to bodyguard someone.
^Track either becomes a watch or follow. Investigate, not as sure about, and bodyguard, I've got ideas but they're not coherent in my head.

But the potentially-awesomely-coolness of the reverse-Desperado and reverse-Gatekeeper which I'd think GIF would go for, definitely makes me think Gaiden's real.

That said, Gaiden, who'd you target N6? You said you targeted Constantine N4.
Does your target ALWAYS get notified, or only notified if they have an action that can be reversed?

[mastin2]

is this something gif would do?

I don't know GIF well enough to say yes.

But I will say it's possible.

In fact, I'd actually say I fully believe the role exists. Not as a fakeclaim; Gaiden has no reason to claim it now if it was a fakeclaim. But as a real role. I do believe Gaiden's town, though, because mentioning this out-of-the-blue right here and now doesn't gain Gaiden anything as scum as far as I can see.

[mastin2]

Oh.
The title lies, then.

It's about to be N6 but currently isn't.