Tales of You (Endgame)

[Titan]

Alright, thats a pretty town sentiment re: Borktells.

What is your reason for voting BRO/Desp?

They are freaking me the fuck out. I know they've both been present on site, but they're ignoring this game. And I'm not going to think to myself oh desperado would care more if he were scum when he's ignoring scum games too lately. I thought the tone of their first post was off, but tbf I misread the implication, I GUESS, since neither of them responded to the question Bork asked about it and my reaction to borks post. I thought walking dead vibes meant a scum list, which made no sense, but apparently that means town reads, which I guess is supported by des popping in to say all he still had was town reads, but not bother to expand. I didn't like des really only popping in to do that but responding to a post I made about them not doing anything and wanted them to and how with the way bro brags about his game it's troubling he's completely absent, with a "Tammy you know it's null" type of post. I don't have a decent lead to follow elsewhere, so until something else pops up that's shinier or they DO SOMETHING that makes me think they're town, I'm here. Waiting impatiently.

[Titan]

I have this in my catchup wall somewhere, but Cupcake's super obvtown and the mislynch bait that's probably going to get lynched this game despite me pointing out why it's obvtown.

Is this due to a post Cupcake made, or is it because he is topped with non-dairy icing and scum Cupcake never uses non-dairy icing?

Corpus-level stuff.

I trolled back and forth with him for like 500 posts in Anything Goes. His posting here resonates very differently for tonal and frequency reasons.

...this is how I read the cupcake.

[Titan]

I was in both of those!

[Titan]

Falcon - what's your read on just sheep us?

[Titan]

Yeah back when empire and I could read each other super easily, without paranoia, and work like an in thread mason.

then he went and broke my heart by being scum

I just got to the post where you mentioned reading desperado as town when I was gut scum reading him, and hoped you had some insight but I CAN WAIT.

[Titan]

Oh and BRO - I think the activity tell you're thinking of was actually in the dead qt. I think kuribo said something like katsuki was confirmed town elsewhere for lurking while putting a ton of effort into anything goes. I remember something along those lines. I suppose he could have said something in game, but lol I didn't read that game.

[Titan]

Yukari's catchup was largely unspectacular too. Possible scum there.

This is potentially the shinier thing I'm looking for, but waiting for something there too.

[Titan]

Everyone should aspire to be able to fake town posts like clyton can.

[Titan]

Wait actually I still think they're town, js.

[Titan]

Like bravo dude if you're scum your posts are so methodical and organized hardly ever see scum doing this anymore

[Titan]

...

I actually have no idea what I'm saying anymore imma go knock out now since it's like 5 in the morning.

[Titan]

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

All I'm saying is that this same thing happened in the open. You have like four players blithering at each other for however long and I simply don't have the patience to keep up with it. Like, you know how I'm reading Tammy from now on? By how much her posts make my eyes bleed. And if I wasn't an immortal sword-demon spirit thing, I would be blind right now. This counts double for f-16, too.

Like, I just can't be assed to read all these goddamn posts about literally nothing again. I'm not doing it. I was excited to play in this game, but holy shit wtf I can't handle it. ffery, mastin, AP all at least understand that brevity gets shit done.

Also you have Desp-Bro sitting here being like incredibly super scum lol. Not lying, we ARE gladiating them tomorrow if we don't lynch them today.

tldr Titan/Sheep scumteam+f-16 as secret fifth traitor and no I won't talk or even likely read your posts Tammy because when you flail this hard, I just can't stand it. I do like playing with you and all that, but ugggggh.

/rage

Guh? Just how out of step with the game state

are

you? I mean if you're trying to needle me by digging at me and seeing if you can get me frustrated, you're going to have to try harder, I won't let you knock me off balance by something that's patently not true. And if you're trying to hurt my feelings or something, I mean yay good job for you, but if my posts make your eyes bleed because

I use too many words to explain my thoughts

then don't sign up for games I'm in?

There is no way you can define my posts as

flailing

. I suppose if I squint, I can see that me getting frustrated over a week ago when interacting with Mastin? Though that's pretty obviously me being frustrated, and I stepped back to get perspective. I've been in a pretty damn good mood this game, and if my collaborative play style, in which I'm interacting with people and discussing reads and impressions and the occasional joke, which comprise 90% of my posts bother you that badly then again don't sign up for games with me? I think, no I'm pretty damn sure, that's how you play mafia? I feel like this is one of my stronger and most even keeled games I've had in a really long time, and I'm not going to let you ruin that for me.

[Titan]

I didn't like des really only popping in to do that but responding to a post I made about them not doing anything and wanted them to and how with the way bro brags about his game it's troubling he's completely absent, with a "Tammy you know it's null" type of post. I don't have a decent lead to follow elsewhere, so until something else pops up that's shinier or they DO SOMETHING that makes me think they're town, I'm here. Waiting impatiently.

While I sympathize with this, I know BRO at least has been disappointingly unmotivated in some town games of his recently. No idea about desperado. I'm hopeful to interact with them to get an actual feel, but Im not overly confident in my ability to read BRO. so ya, get the frustration but I dont know if hes scummy for that.

What do you think about BRO not doing anything but immediately upon seeing you replace in started on catching up? It made me feel twitchy as hell when I first saw it and made me rethink the scum read on had on your slot because I could see him being like okay gotta step up or AP will catch me, which now means less because of your less than confident stance on being able to read him. BUT on the other hand, I remember BRO telling me once that having you in a game with him was like dealing with an in-thread masonry. I can't remember where he said that to even make sure that it was you he referenced though, so in that respects catching up to bounce ideas off you might be the impetus.

Am I mistaken about how you guys interact or does that make sense at all?

[Titan]

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

Actually, he is. I scumread him for it.

That's actually not a scum tell though. I get this with other players at my other site too, a "player x is buddying/cozying/sucking up to Tammy" but it's part of how some people just interact in games. Falcon interacts with me like this in games. Of course as scum, he has to do some measure of it because I would think it's weird, but it's definitely not a scum tell for him to be interacting with me the way we interact.

[Titan]

And now nobody is going to listen to any of my reads, so congratulations scum you've learned to get me to react and I still haven't learned not to.

When this happens come to me.
I'll listen.

This felt town.

[Titan]

Who are you I don't see your name in the OP AP.

He says as he altslips with a name not in the OP >_>

[Titan]

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

That one head your talking about also didn't try to get town read in NY169.

[Titan]

I initially put the vote down on the Prohawk hydra for two reasons;

Partially because I thought they were scummy as fuck (which I'll get to in a minute) and partially because I had a scum read on FoxHound and I thought if I was right about Hawk being scum, FoxHound were going to bus them after I put my vote down on Hawk. Because Cephrir has a similar scum playstyle to mine in that he's not strictly a busser, but he's a flow-busser. When he senses weakness in a buddy and senses the flow of opinions tending towards a buddy, he jumps on the bus at an early venture for all the town cred it's worth. It's what I do as scum and I am fairly sure Cephrir is as adept as I am at reading flow since he does it as scum as well. I changed the flow of things slightly with my Hawk vote deliberately to see whether he was going to flow-bus Hawkie, and like clockwork, their vote came. I know it was DV who did it, but given he said Cephrir gave him the go-ahead, that's as good as Cephrir doing it.

When AP flips scum, FoxHound needs to be buried the next day.

And anyone who honestly thinks AP looks town from his entrance is either dumb or scum. Mastin is fucking right about AP. That wasn't a town entrance, and nothing he's done since then looks town.

Prohawk was scum. AP is scum.

The only reason NOT to lynch them today is because BRO is basically the most obvscum he's even been in a game.

This is just a reminder for myself that it's something I want to look back at when I have more time.

And geezuz fuck, I realize I'm the queen of over posting, but if you people keep producing pages this fast I will never catch up.

[Titan]

Someone tell me why ElementalHawk is scum.
3dice's posts were pretty town to me?

I thought they felt wooden. I didn't really like the "I feel lost so much meta I don't get" dealio. Prohawk has played in the last two tales games, and that's been the majority of the meta stuff save some more nominal things. They also more than once asked for people to ask them things or engage them. I realize town can do that too, bb molla notably and occasionally empire, but it's something I associate more with scum.

[Titan]

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

That one head your talking about also didn't try to get town read in NY169.

But he also didn't do an awful lot of anything. And he had a day chat in the mafia team where he seems to have done the vast majority of his trolling so as not to draw attention to himself in the game itself through it.

At least that's my interpretation of it, do you disagree?

He didn't really do anything at all sure. I died night one, so I didn't read closely after that for the most part, and the only thing of the scum chat I read was to try to figure out why I was killed night one. But the point is he didn't tryout get town read.

[Titan]

(Side-note, but I just now realized that Titan's new avatar is Prometheus. That took me way longer than it should've to get.)

[Titan]

@ ap: i just don't understand your thought process. you expected people to see you were obvious town, but you townread two players who scumread you for it and calling bro bad for saying you're town (even though this is what you expected?).

I always think that Im obviously town, even when scum (although Im more likely to declare myself obvtown as town).

Im not focusing on people's reads on me as a basis for my reads because Im not shit at this game. Mastin is town because mastins push on me is borderline insane and way too overdone to be likely from scum. She knows she cant elude me forver when scum, so she rarely pushes me as scum, CERTAINLY not in 1v1 tunnel mode where Im way more likely to get her lynched. RBD is probably town for the hated miller gladiator claim and their tone/attitude/presence is just ridiculously town. I could point to some specific instances and wall about it, but they are just town. Everything about them is troll-y but determined, annoyed but spirited. If they are scum . I mean I guess they -could- be, I'd have to bow down to muffin for being the most unreadable scumbutt to ever scum the 7 seas.

Lucky you! I think my alignment is obvious no matter my alignment.

But can you really say this about mastin with a straight face after anything goes?

[Titan]

Um my vote on just sheep us has nothing to do with mastin. In fact my vote feels dirty just having read that arrogant piece of hogwash.

[Titan]

The only player in this game actually deserving of being called obvtown is Tammy.

Personally I think F-16 is almost as strongly town, but it's not "obv" or everyone would agree to it.

<3

[Titan]

You have spent more time being Tammy's fanboy than you have actually explaining why those games make DV look town here. Who is a leading wagon right now.

...it's because I'm awesome?

(Insert cool awesome gif here.)

[Titan]

You have spent more time being Tammy's fanboy than you have actually explaining why those games make DV look town here. Who is a leading wagon right now.

...it's because I'm awesome?

(Insert cool awesome gif here.)

What the heck Tammy, I expected you to have my back there.
~ F-16

:p

And give up the opportunity to call myself awesome?

No, but seriously ap, falcon was in one of those games with me, and I did say I was in those games after he posted. And he would appreciate the ending of that game, it was an awesome example of how well empire and I can work together when were both at our best sans paranoia. Falcon and I bounce ideas off each other in games, it's really nothing weird.

Also falcon I'll answer your other question in a bit. I'm caught up now, but I'm going to head out for a run. I'll give some thoughts when I get back.

[Titan]

Cupcake is katsuki.

[Titan]

Will read 57/58 and such later, but...

Mastin wasn't a threat, she was a mislynch I thought I could get. And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids.

^Ceph's take on me.

Posting quickly, be back much later.

Would you like me to post your take on players when you were scum? I swear everything you've posted today sounds like the mastin from our scum qt in Anything Goes. The arrogance. The acting like you're in charge. Everything. Right now I'm having a really hard time reconciling some things about your play that is more consistent with your town game and the overwhelming amount of slime oozing from your posts. Maybe it's because you're just bloody annoying me with an attitude that is more distractive than it is one that will actually work to get things done for town in this game. Maybe it's because you sound like you have an agenda rather than you're trying to solve the game.

I don't know what it is, but I'm far more likely to join your wagon than the fox and the hound. That's for sure!

[Titan]

^ Er that was about my previous statement, Im talking to myself.

Im not arguing that Falcon is lying about thinking you were enjoyable in those games. HEs just doing the same crap Ive been busted for in the past like telling Bacde I was impressed with him and that we should hydra sometime when I was scum and he was town in that one open.

P-edit: ya that.

And his runaround about intending to provide analysis on DV and then later posting that "no he just posts random games with no special intent sometimes" is some scummy ass handwaving.

Yeah but that's not what he was doing. We enjoy playing with each other and have a sense of understanding of where we get our reads; it makes working together easier. In Zach's mafia game when he was pushing CTD for scum and I thought he was town, he turned to me wondering if he was off base and would back off if I thought he was. We were both town. In PYP we were both replacements who synced up right away and after I was night killed he still referred to my reads to back up his thoughts. His interaction with me isn't out of the ordinary.

I don't think he said he had no special intent to do anything with those games. He said he was looking at those games specifically and would do something with them later, and this is something that he does.

[Titan]

Tammy, what do you think of AP's buddying accusation? I didn't feel that it was genuine.

~ F-16

I'm not sure what I think of it. I do certainly think it's odd and didn't consider it until you pointed it out that he automatically considered mastin/muffin town blocking cut couldn't see the same thing here. AP is a bit of a question mark for me here. I'm realizing that I've never been town in a game with Angry Pigeon; the closest I came was being an SK in a game where he was mafia. Right now I'm not really sure how to parse the brouhaha between AP/JustSheepUs/Mastin/RBD with Fox and Hound on the side. Have you been able to take away anything from all that?

[Titan]

nacho - what is your updated read on the rancid pirates?

[Titan]

also where's my shot?

[Titan]

I didn't like des really only popping in to do that but responding to a post I made about them not doing anything and wanted them to and how with the way bro brags about his game it's troubling he's completely absent, with a "Tammy you know it's null" type of post. I don't have a decent lead to follow elsewhere, so until something else pops up that's shinier or they DO SOMETHING that makes me think they're town, I'm here. Waiting impatiently.

While I sympathize with this, I know BRO at least has been disappointingly unmotivated in some town games of his recently. No idea about desperado. I'm hopeful to interact with them to get an actual feel, but Im not overly confident in my ability to read BRO. so ya, get the frustration but I dont know if hes scummy for that.

What do you think about BRO not doing anything but immediately upon seeing you replace in started on catching up? It made me feel twitchy as hell when I first saw it and made me rethink the scum read on had on your slot because I could see him being like okay gotta step up or AP will catch me, which now means less because of your less than confident stance on being able to read him. BUT on the other hand, I remember BRO telling me once that having you in a game with him was like dealing with an in-thread masonry. I can't remember where he said that to even make sure that it was you he referenced though, so in that respects catching up to bounce ideas off you might be the impetus.

Am I mistaken about how you guys interact or does that make sense at all?

Angry Pigeon you never answered this.

[Titan]

But the only reason you're not seeing him as town is because he's not reading you as town - and your refusal to see it from a different perspective other than "no townread, must be scum" is worrying.

Like you're not even considering Nacho can be town AND wrong, you've just launched an assault on why he's scum.

I am worried that Nacho not townreading me is influencing me more than it should, but although his posts are townish, I don't think anything couldn't be faked by scum, and I think I'm pretty obviously considering that he's town and wrong. The problem here is that Nacho always townreads me to the point where it's become a running joke, even once when I was scum on an alt and a popular scumread. Do I think Nacho could catch me as scum now? Yeah, probably. It's been a long time since I've been scum against him. But would he not townread me when I'm town and think I'm quite transparently so? I don't think so.

Trust me that I really want Kagura to be town and prove us wrong somehow, but I think the possibility that they're scum and no one's seeing it is a very real one.

This isn't necessarily true though. In swagtown, nacho suspected you, and I think looking back at that game you were transparently town. Nacho has suspected people that it was strange for him to suspect. In chosen and Viscon he suspected Bert when in both they were pretty town.

I think the only thing that is bugging me about your response is assuming he must be scum for misreading you and I'm of two minds about it. One I could see me reacting a similar way and

probably

freaking out about it. I'd probably figure nacho was trying to mislynch me. On the other hand, I'm having some flashbacks to ice and fire when cephrir basically argued that nacho would be scum if he suspected him and tried to manipulate him that way.

I didn't suspect Bert in either Chosen or Viscon...?
Did I?
Maybe chosen, but not vision.

I'm pretty sure you did. There at the end you suspected him and you suspected Empire. I mean I guess it's a special case because no one would listen to me that Mara and her lover were scum, so wheels were spinning trying to make everyone scum.

[Titan]

I wish! Did you read the way he came after me in too many heads?

Except in that game
He backed off from ye,

Thinking ye were town,
After a fake AtE

No, I unvoted in case Tammy was actually crying.
I've always been willing to give people as much room as they'd like to talk: that doesn't mean that I still don't think they are scum.

Sad thing is. I wasn't lying actually. But like I said, really stressed that day and hadn't slept.

[Titan]

also where's my shot?

Can I join? College turned me into an alcohol abuser!

The more the merrier!

[Titan]

You have to be trolling me.

Nope! I'm pretty sure I remember that correctly. I mean it's possible you just wanted to sort him, but you did. And I don't remember it as clear as the Empire suspicion, but I pretty clearly remember empire jumping down your throat about it because I remember him making the argument that there was no way he'd let me live past night one if he were scum.

that was when he still respected my scum hunting abilities!

[Titan]

:(:(:(

ITT we learn that Tammy never cares about what Nacho writes ever, and Nacho learns he might as well just not post :(:(

WHAT?

Dude I was going to bed when I saw you posting. I'm literally forcing myself to stay awake to see what you post and respond.

AND I asked you a question.

I might be hurt right now.

[Titan]

also where's my shot?

Can I join? College turned me into an alcohol abuser!

The more the merrier!

Awesome! I have like three fifths of flavored vodka, two fifths of flavored rum, Pusser's Navy Rum, some de Kuiper's Soul Apple, some Amarettto, and a fifth of 151 in my room that I need to get rid of before graduation!

Oh god that sounds terrible...

(Also, if you have anything you want to talk to me about game, wise, I'm semi-present right now while I do my hw).

I'll take some flavored vodka!

What is you guys' read on AngryPigeon?

[Titan]

Did I?

If you're asking if you did, I'm too tired to look back at all our posts that game. Do you know how much trolling and just goofing off we had in the midst of actually playing?

[Titan]

[Titan]

Nah. I'm barely functioning at this point and am just staying up in case I want to interact with Nacho when he's actually around.

I translated that some time ago. One of the few things I remember from the elaborate feast is fish sauce. I thought it sounded disgusting.

pedit: to bro.

Are you asking me for a reads list? I typically don't do those, though I do have one some pages back of my general standings. Also, I want to digest today.

[Titan]

But idk I kinda am "meh" about the rest of their posts, so irdk.

You're meh on the rest of out posts?

I was sort of hoping this could be the one game where we were so obviously town together where you didn't have to be paranoid off us, especially since bork has been killing it in the towniness department lately and I haven't been doing so badly myself.

I was super confused.

Then I looked back. That was Arthur.

[Titan]

But idk I kinda am "meh" about the rest of their posts, so irdk.

You're meh on the rest of out posts?

I was sort of hoping this could be the one game where we were so obviously town together where you didn't have to be paranoid off us, especially since bork has been killing it in the towniness department lately and I haven't been doing so badly myself.

I was super confused.

Then I looked back. That was Arthur.

I mean I'm not going to say that I don't have bits of paranoia where you guys are concerned. But I feel like this is a different bork from we the purple, and I've liked some of your posts. I do think that I'll feel like something is off if you're scum, but so far I haven't felt that, though I'm also concerned I'm in a bit of recalibration mode since me getting it wrong in Vesperia. I mean I got it right at the end and knew i fucked up, but it was too late so it doesn't really count.

[Titan]

Long days are long. I caught up with the thread on breaks at work this morning and now don't really remember much. :/

But, I was thinking about some things while swimming this afternoon, so I'm gonna ramble a bit and then pass out.

I'm not sure why I'm a strong town read for ffery, maybe she's learning how to read me?

I've decided I don't feel as great about nacho/Bork as I would like. If it weren't for nacho being part of that hydra I don't think I would even remember Bork was playing. But I've also decided I'm not going to let myself devolve into too much paranoia about this because there might not even be a town that could stop them and in that regard I might not fuck up that way but could have been of better use BUT maybe not and it might not matter. ANYWAY, I'd love to feel better about them than I do but I'm not even sure what that thing is right now.

I've also realized that if mastin and the rancid pirates are town then the scum team has made a deviation from my last several games from attacking me for weird reasons and are instead calling me town. (Though the attack by those two was fucking weird.). IF that's the case then I'm not sure how to distinguish right now between town recognizing me as town and scum calling me town because that's what they're supposed to do. It's fucking with my head to start looking cross eyed at people calling me town.

I'm not sure what to make of diplomatic broseidon.

I think that's it. Just some random things I want to look back at after sleep glorious sleep.

[Titan]

23 hours ago I made a post, and it's still on this page.

I'm disappointed.

I'd hoped that Bork would post something. I hoped it would be really really town and make me bask in joy.

I'm not exactly sure what else I hoped for but I hoped for something more than this.

I don't know what to make of Pere's posting though; I feel he'll always be a damn enigma to me :/

[Titan]

I know why Bork hasn't posted anything town

Do you have a day cop guilty?

[Titan]

*twitch*

[Titan]

beetlejuice

I'm disappointed.

I'd hoped that Bork would post something. I hoped it would be really really town and make me bask in joy.

Seriously what is the impetus for you getting weird on me at this particular juncture?

-b

Why are you beetle juicing tonight and not 24 hours ago when I first mentioned my problems with your slot?

Are you reading the game?

[Titan]

I don't know what to make of Pere's posting though; I feel he'll always be a damn enigma to me :/

Get the fuck out of my head, that's where I keep my saved-up jokes.

I'LL TRY!

[Titan]

If Nacho says Tammy's town, I won't trust him thanks to this.

Trusting me blindly when I call someone town is usually not a great idea because they're manipulating me specifically. Not trusting me when I say someone's town AND they're obviously town, worse idea. I've been pretty much constantly manipulating people for months and months and months and have made pretty awesome strides in my scumgame, and as a result, have become more of a paranoid person, AKA it's become even harder to make it past me lately.

Isn't that wonderful?

How serious were you when you made this statement?

[Titan]

mastin-town has kinda been my rock this game.

[Titan]

How serious were you when you made this statement?

I hope that isn't to me because I very obviously didn't type that

-b

No, I know it's Nacho. I want him to see it and answer it.

[Titan]

mastin-town has kinda been my rock this game.

Talking to me will generally get you better results than disapproving smiley face.

-b

Okay in what way is mastin town your rock?

[Titan]

Okay in what way is mastin town your rock?

I posted it about it earlier, but that's the one read I've felt pretty good about.

Sec.

-b

I don't really see why. I mean I saw your reasoning why, but I don't really follow.

And regardless, even if I thought mastin was strongly town this game, I'd in no way understand why he'd be someone's rock.

[Titan]

*she'd

[Titan]

Why are you writing off mastin's push on you as being from House Party Mini mastin instead of from scum mastin?

I dunno, maybe because mastin has never come at me this hard as scum before? I know one day she will and it'll blindside me which is why Im paranoid.

Everything she's posted -could- be from town mastin and I'm a little disappointed in the complete lack of justifications, its like mastin coasting on being mastin at that point.

He didn't come at you hard in anything goes?

[Titan]

So, I just realized I don't have any super strong town reads this game.

I mean I'd be super surprised if Mac flipped scum. Notscience is a decent town read but I just had to look back at the player list and was reminded he was playing. There are people I feel decently good about like cupcake, fox/hound, Orcinus, breakfast, kagura and carbon fiber.

But no glaring I'd bet the game on these town reads.

Hmm there are some things I need to reread through, but dinner, stuff, and taxes comes first!

Oh wait Clayton feels good too, he should be in that decently good pile.

[Titan]

And regardless, even if I thought mastin was strongly town this game, I'd in no way understand why he'd be someone's rock.

I am possibly being hyperbolic.

But I feel like mastin feels, well, 'flat' (sorry to use such a loaded word after that whole thing) as scum or gets defensive or tunnels or something else opaque and distracting and doesn't really absorb the gamestate.

Her play here strongly feels like absorbing the gamestate and radiating thoughts on it.

goddamn now I'm using tales of the abyss lingo.

I really don't know how better to put it. I'm endeavoring to listen to dissenting opinions but you aren't giving any reasons.

-b

.

Heh I'll just laugh at the flat thing.

I don't have great reasoning. I'll admit there are some things that feel more consistent with his town game, particularly there are a few things that give me the feeling of mastin from last years Harry potter game. The refuting reasons for a town read of himself, some of the tone of his arrogance, and his protectiveness of another player all feel like that. As for the rest, you're not going to get great reasons from me because it all goes to how I read people, especially before a scum flip and extra especially on day one. He feels orchestrated and his reads feel fabricated; it doesn't feel like he's processing this game in an organic way without knowing people's alignments. I'm not as convinced of this as I was earlier, but it's still the feeling I get from his posts.

[Titan]

Like am I actually fucking off the mark?

-b

This felt town.

[Titan]

5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)

For the record, I still don't think that Tammy was ever truly obvtown. I could see them being scum posting a lot of what they have. Their reads being massively out of whack with mine is also something that concerned me, because all-in-all, something about them did kinda feel off.

...But I ask myself, "Do you truly think they could be scum?" And the answer, while a reluctant yes, spawns the question, "Okay, dumb question; do you truly think they actually

are

scum?", to which, the answer--after a small bit of pondering--never changes. Closing eyes. Breathing in. Clearing mind. And as exhaling, shaking my head.
No.
No, I don't.

Which begged the question, if they're not scum, where do I place them? I haven't felt them obvtown. I still don't. But my answer was quite undeniable. In spite of not having any reason. No logic. No backing. Off of just my gut, my instinct, my feeling. I look at them and think, how town are they?

Near the top of my townreads. Something about them just feels like town. Not obvtown. That's a different feeling. But...still town.

Kinda wish I had a way to make that make sense, but this is the best I've got.

...I actually like this read of me. I actually do think I'm obviously town here based on a bunch of early game stuff I can't fake. Maybe one day I will, but that day is not today. HOWEVER I think there are some things about my play that are fakeable. For instance, the playstyle I am using for this game is one of the playstyles I try to emulate as scum, sometimes to varying success, but I can appreciate someone pointing out that some of it could be fakeable.

I think of your more familiar with my town and scum game you'd see what's obviously town about it though, and I guess what surprises me is that you've been my scum partner twice recently but in neither was this the playstyle I tried to emulate.

[Titan]

I'm not sure what to make of diplomatic broseidon.

OH MY GOD WAIT HAS BROSEIDON STARTED BEING DIPLOMATIC

I got warned for ad-homming, so I decided to ignore muffin and try to play nicer :/

The reason why it pinged me in the first place was because in Attack on Titan, you were like Tammy needs to get in here and town it up, towns without structure suck, which made me feel weird when you said it. So the seeming to work with others, is making me go what, BUT at the same time I know it's something you're working on, so.

[Titan]

Ugh I feel like I had something to say but I can't remember now. I'm not sure if I still want my vote where it is but I'm not exactly comfortable moving it either and don't know where I want it to go.

Hopefully after dinner, taxes and stuff I'll be able to look back at some things I wanted to and try to make sense of this.

[Titan]

Oh also, can I just do a preemptive *she for mastin. I suffer from not really thinking about the technicalities of my posts and just getting my thoughts down. I try to remember the gender, I really do. I just forget, and don't edit, so anytime I forget it, it's just because I forgot.

[Titan]

Dude.

[Titan]

Ugh I still don't know where I want to vote.

But what I do know is that I just don't have the desire to have anything to do with mafia right now, so I'm going to be gone the rest of this day phase. I'll check in to see if I need to vote to make sure a wagon goes through, but that's about all you should expect from me.

I did quickly skim to see if there was anything I needed or wanted to respond to, but there wasn't. Though I did learn that muffin has a penis so go him. I'm not sure what I think of myself that as I'm quickly scrolling through the game and barely paying attention to what I am reading, my eyes fell on that, but there you go.

If you're also smoking crack and think this is my scum tone, you can go ahead and lynch me for it, I'll check in to see if I need to claim for that as well.

I doubt very seriously Arthur will be around, and I'll have to see just how much of this slot he can take over. If I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll figure out what I'm going to do with it, so until then!

UNVOTE:

[Titan]

All it takes is one of you. Just one of you to realize that you've made all the points you're going to make. Just one of you to realize that you're drowning out the game. Just one of you to realize that it's two days to deadline and this isn't helping. Just one of you to walk away.

One of you should.

Taking a couple days away from mafia did some good and I don't actually think I'll dip out of the rest of the day phase like I thought yesterday. However, I have shit ton of grading to finish tonight, so I probably won't be back until tomorrow unless I get a good chunk of this done or just need a break.

It would be nice if one of you would disengage.

[Titan]

So, I had this whole beg understanding of the game then got confused and was about to ask a bunch of questions then realized ffery is NOT in the neighborhood, so never mind!

I am confused about the claim and counterclaim thing. I need to go back and read through it though.

I wish I chose abyss, I love neighborhoods

[Titan]

Hey AP - is it your stance that hated claims should be lynched day one?

[Titan]

Push me. Push PV. Sure. But Rancid's living today.

Mastin? GET IN THE HYDRA QT. Also What is your general policy on Hated claims? I mean if I thought F-16 were town, Id lynch RBD for being Hated over F-16. Fortunately, I can read F-16 correctly so Im not in that position.

Oh, I thought that's what this meant and was just reading your reaction to fg in ag.

Don't mind me I'm nearly asleep.

[Titan]

I'm going to do something I never do. I'm going to go get some caffeine so I can stay awake and try to make sense. I blame you all for my impending tweaking.

[Titan]

Okay I got a cupcake AND coffee...two things i'm extremely sensitive to. There's a good chance I'm going to be rambling like an idiot in a little while AND a good chance I'll pass out, so.

Anyway, I would be super duper hilariously shocked if CF flipped scum here. Like I'd just be shocked. The most recent post to ffery just felt so genuine and it resonates so.

I'm really not sure what to make of the double miller claims and I am not about to outguess the mod here. I'm starting to get the feeling I did in Faraday's upick when everyone went all pitchforks over Thor claiming miller because Faraday NEVER puts millers in his game even though I told them that I played in a Faraday modded game with a miller and no one listened to me. I don't have a clue how much of what Cabd would put in a game, but I know from talking to him that he likes to designed games that are intricate and are complex but are winnable by either side.

The things that DOES bug me and I'd love for one of muffin/nati to talk about is their claim of miller because the replica thing that Falcon is focusing on makes sense. So what about their claim shows them being a miller? That's what I want to know.

[Titan]

Tammy, are you actually serious with the whole "I need to look over the claims" shit? I am pretty obviously town here and I am cc'ing RBD. Not sure what your confused about.

~ F-16

Serious as I can be!

Needing to look over the claims doesn't mean I suspect you, it means I want to look over the claims to see what makes sense. I'd be completely shocked if you were scum here pulling this, but that's not my point. I believe you believe he's the scum you're counterclaiming, but I'm not sure he's scum.

I don't really know why you're giving me a hard time about wanting to look back at things though. I mean some people give me a hard time for being too careful and reviewing things to make sure it all makes sense, but I don't know why you would.

[Titan]

The only way I see this being a gambit from CF is if this was cooked up by the scum team, but his play of if they don't flip scum lynch/vig me tomorrow thing feels pretty real. :/

[Titan]

(I haven't been around since Saturday night, I've barely skimmed the stuff from today/yesterday, and I'm trying to stay awake and make sense. So yeah, I'm a bit behind.)

[Titan]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Titan]

Falcon - Why did you think a miller neighborizer was unlynchable in this game?

[Titan]

Well the thing is it's not necessarily scummy. In the PYP game that I replaced into I told Belisarius that I wasn't getting lynched that game and when he asked if I thought I had the backing to make that claim I replied that I totally did. I made that claim for two reasons. One on the basis of me not really getting lynched when I'm town, and it sounds like it would be arrogance, but I actually was concerned that I'd get lynched that game and two I was a vanilla townie trying to hint at having a power role so I'd draw the night kill.

But, usually when people make that claim they're making it on the basis of their role (or on the basis of a record of not getting mislynched.)

[Titan]

Is GIF talking in the neighborhood?

Also, is Bork talking in the neighborhood?

[Titan]

Except for that would be going paranoia territory that doesn't make sense with how cabd does things. He runs the alignments based on the numbers people are signed up as. And since this is a upick, he would be able to be sure that it would line up that way, so I doubt very seriously that we have to worry about things like that.

[Titan]

Paranoia theory:
There is no neighborhood for today.
The claimed neighborhood is entirely made up of scum.
/AP.
(Because this is totally AP's type of theory to make.)

Does this explain CF's avoidance to my requested demands? Even a simple no would suffice.

Sorry, I forgot to respond. I'll use it in the best way I see fit. I'm considering asking a strong townread to claim their title D2 so that I can activate a neighborhood for everyone in their title (I won't be in it).

~ F-16

*waves hands in the air like I really care*

(okay I just really like neighborhoods)

[Titan]

Falcon - Can you tell me why Lord Business's first post to me rang as town to you?

[Titan]

*about me

[Titan]

Falcon - Can you tell me why Lord Business's first post to me rang as town to you?

Mostly gut and tone. He just seemed really forceful. I am not as sure now because I am still trying to reconcile whether he faked it but the reason for faking was because he wanted to hide his alt as opposed to hide his affiliation. He is one of the only people who is not a strong townread. What do you think?

~ F-16

I'm not sure. The reason why it struck odd to me that you read him as town for it is because you know who he is. (And I don't want to go into a meta discussion about him, but I can understand the people coming to him cold going oh look that's observant and it looks town; it just throws me a little when you say it looks town.) And yeah, I can see him just doing it to hide his alt, and if he was going to press the issue he could have easily doubled down on being suspicious of me over it but didn't, and in that regard it looks townish. However, I know my mafia weaknesses and that type of thing is one of them and I'm feeling low on suspects here, so I'm not sure what to think.

[Titan]

Nati, on the other hand, seems to think she's really blatantly scum. And he's reading her based off tone or something I think? Not sure. WE HAVEN'T TALKED IN A WHILE AND I DON'T THINK HE PLANS TO READ THIS BULLSHIT

If this is true, this is actually quite depressing because it means every other time he read me accurately he was just pissing in the dark and just hit the target by sheer luck.

I don't have great reasoning. I'll admit there are some things that feel more consistent with his town game, particularly there are a few things that give me the feeling of mastin from last years Harry potter game. The refuting reasons for a town read of himself, some of the tone of his arrogance, and his protectiveness of another player all feel like that. As for the rest, you're not going to get great reasons from me because it all goes to how I read people, especially before a scum flip and extra especially on day one. He feels orchestrated and his reads feel fabricated; it doesn't feel like he's processing this game in an organic way without knowing people's alignments. I'm not as convinced of this as I was earlier, but it's still the feeling I get from his posts.

Elaborate

'coz I get the exact opposite feeling about mastin's posts and I want to know which of mastin's reads you feel this way about

You cut off part of my post to ask me to elaborate, and I don't know why. I also don't know why you're asking me to elaborate when I specifically said that it was something that I couldn't really explain. Also, since it follows me also talking about things that have me conflicted. I feel like you know that I'm not going to elaborate, and that this is something that basically equates to gut and is something that I can't explain any further than I did. I feel like you know how this conversation is going to go because it's the same thing from Attack on Titan and what caused you to tell me that I'm terrible at mafia because I couldn't really verbalize why I felt that Pasch was scum beyond he felt fake and fabricated.

[Titan]

I don't know what to make of Pere's posting though; I feel he'll always be a damn enigma to me :/

Wrapped in a riddle inside a mystery?

But seriously, if you question something, why not ask?

Sometimes asking you questions causes more confusion. I much prefer to see what you do with things unprompted. I'm not sure it makes it easier to read you, but. If something piqued my interest that I needed explaining I would; haven't seen anything yet.

[Titan]

...I kinda want to lynch Angry Pigeon.

[Titan]

Tammy

,

please don't leave the game. Don't be discouraged from posting because of the load of fluff in the game. I was a little exasperated as well but I am trying to find out what is important and what isn't. You are literally one of the only players I am seeing eye to eye with that is also active and posting a lot of reasonable things that I can understand in the midst of all the other stuff to parse through.

Your posting is not bad and anyone who is critisizing it or complaining about it is either scum or can't read. If I have to pick one playerslot's posts I am looking forward to reading in this game, it would be yours. We both have very, very similar reads and I need your help in POEing the rest of the game. Get in here and play the game and we can win this by D4 after hopefully four scum lynches.

inb4 AngryPidgeon: "LOL buddying"

~ F-16

<3

Thank you. I just really needed a break from mafia for a few days. I thought my desire for a break would last longer, but it didn't

[Titan]

ffery - I think that part of what you've been saying about your play this game and not being in the same envelope or whatever should address the way you town block. You have a tendency to town block people thinking just like you, and you think that's the only people you can work with. Which is wonderful if you actually have scum nailed and are town reading the correct people, but if you're not then you create a block of people who are just reinforcing erroneous reads and congratulating each other rather than looking at the game in different ways. It *is* possible to work with people who are reading the game differently than you do, and any really functional town block would be beneficial to have people who come to the game from different perspectives but can work with other people to avoid the confirmation bias that comes with everyone reading the game in the same way.

(a bunch of htat grammatically probably doesn't make sense, I warned everyone about cupcake and coffee combo though, so!)

[Titan]

And yeah, I"m skimming the rest of that shit. 20 pages was created in 24 hours and most of it is mastin/ap.

AP - It's not out of the ordinary for scum to throw up a humongous argument like you and Mastin did and thinking you guys might be bussing isn't inherently anti-town. I've gotten into a beautiful argument with more than one scum partner and cross bussed in such a way that it left one of us clear after the other got lynched.

So, in that regard, I can't see why you would think it's completely out of the realm of possibility that town would get worried about that. And though you and Mastin did argue for many many pages upon pages and pages, you still seemed pretty ready to position yourself onto PV at the end of it all, and especially in that regard it looks suspicious.

And here's the thing, I *could* see just changing your minds. Mastin do you remember good v evil? Zdenek and I were locked in a two-week long wall war tunnel, and I very nearly got him mislynched, but at the last minute, about 24 hours before deadline, I jumped off that train because something struck me as town and I realized i had been wrong all along. But people pushed that as suspicious, as we were scum caught in theater that went too far, but it wasn't.

But, I don't see the point when either one of you had a lightbulb moment and realized you were wrong. I can almost see a direction to compromise elsewhere, and that does look suspicious.

[Titan]

...I kinda want to lynch Angry Pigeon.

I know, I'd love for us to be on the same side for once, I'm just not there with thinking you are.

[Titan]

Yggdra - Do you have any thoughts?

I'm assuming this is pieguyn and gif?

[Titan]

Only being despised at the disgusting chaotic good players (aside from Regfan) and deeply impressed by the lawful good ones. And that I lost because of the LG ones (I 1v1'd Nacho!), not the CG ones.

(BTW, since I felt like reminiscing. The mechanic of the game was two towns in one, three scum each. The towns didn't have to win together, nor the scum. The chaotic good players only cared about killing lawful evil players and were as selfish as could be. The lawful good players were, throughout the entirety of the game, trying to figure out the best way both towns could win, and they paid for it with their lives; nearly every single NK that game was on a lawful good player for good reason. I considered the lawful good team to be worthy opponents, and was glad to have fought them. Heck, I was proud to have gotten my town into a 4p mylo against such players! The chaotic good players, on the other hand, cruised to victory not off of skill, but by selfishly worrying about preservation and such. Aside from Regfan, nobody on that team truly deserved the win, as I remember it, because they put zero effort into winning, whereas LG players quite literally put 200% into winning.)

That was my first completed game on this site! (My other game was eaten by tigers )

[Titan]

I'm going to sleep. I'm not voting CF, and I really really want Rancid to address the miller claim and why he's a miller if not a replica.

I'll be around tomorrow.

[Titan]

[Titan]

F16 please neighborize Symphonia tonight, I wanna do some sleuthing.

NO!

[Titan]

I'm not Symphonia, and I want a neighborhood.

[Titan]

(but I'm sure muffin can tell me how badly I suck at mafia in the thread >_> )

[Titan]

Remember Tammy, I'm the nice cop.

Um aren't you the one who voted me for reactions, said I was flailing when I wasn't and called me scum based on tone (though by tone I should be practically confirmed town to anyone who can actually read my tone)?

That's not nice cop.

Pedit: that actually makes sense. I think.

[Titan]

Okay never mind I'm confused

[Titan]

So the mason thing was a lie then. I'm going to sleep. I think I already said that. I mean it this time.

[Titan]

So the mason thing was a lie then. I'm going to sleep. I think I already said that. I mean it this time.

?????????????????????

You wouldn't have qualified understanding mental issues thing if you were a mason, so you were just doing your pirate thing.

~~~

Also, is that pieguyn in the yggadra hydra and if so this is one of those instances that I think bringing in another head mid game skews the game. Because pieguy pretty much sucks and lurks as scum, so hid asking pie to join him confirms that slot as town, a slot that wasn't looking so great before hand. And the situation is now bringing outside influences into the read in much the same situation as mastin affected the read on the falcon slot in attack on Titan. I don't think it was right to do.

[Titan]

Yay for you.

I still don't think it was right. I don't see scum!gif asking that particular person to hydra with him, so it confirms the slot.

[Titan]

Ffery - I would have to know the context, but here the action has fundamentally skewed how I view that slot. I don't think it was right.

Ap - yes, I did for a second. I was masons in the last tales game so it wouldn't be unheard of and it would answer why they've been confirm towning each other all game. So yeah, for a minute I did. I'm slow, I'm tired, I'm still tweaking, I'm slightly deranged, so yeah.

Gif - I'm not really questioning your moral standard, and I'd probably feel different if your slot looked really town here, but it didn't so the inclusion of a hydra partner and who was chosen for it pretty much comes close to confirming your slot. I'm probably the only person who has a problem with it but it doesn't feel right.

Pedit: I have no idea what's going on now and should really go to sleep.

[Titan]

The fact is I AM gladiating them tonight if neither of us are lynched, so that's the ultimatum.

Neither of you who?

[Titan]

to make it clear, it's not the you-read I'm wondering about. That one I'm p sure he's wrong on.

But, I have no fucking idea what you guys thought you were doing with that apparent fake claim and it bothers me that you let it go so far. And it super bothers me that muffin went on the attack when counterclaimed.

If this is some sort of smoke and mirrors thing plz clear it up now.

I didn't intend to take it that far and if I'd been active during the midpart of this day, I wouldn't have, but, alas, I'm pulling the real life card here and muffin was in charge. ANd he thought it best to carry. The timestamps of the hydra qt showed that, by the time of Muffin's giant post on page 64, he was as pissed off at f-16 as I was and he was just ready to pull every card.

Then fucking f-16 shows up and cc's miller, and all I see is red in the hydra qt. Like, I've never quite seen muffin as mad as this game.

Why would muffin be mad that your fakeclaim was countered!

[Titan]

VOTE: rancid

So, murdercocks on the counterclaimer and Vern though this game has been noisy as fuck, you guys contributed to it by not clearling up something you could hav done over 12 hours and how many pages ago?

:justice:

[Titan]

UNVOTE:

Fuck I'm going to sleep.

[Titan]

VOTE: rancid

[Titan]

UNVOTE:

Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

[Titan]

*hug*

[Titan]

Tammy, what's up with the vote/unvote thing?

or warm feet. cold feet. warm feet. cold feet. I'm not sure they make sense as scum.

I

actually

don't think the stuff in our hydra QT could be faked by scum-us, but if he posts it, you'll get to judge it yourself, and if you're

actually

town and still think we're scum,

I will

literally

lol at how bad at scum hunting you

actually

are

Since I'm doing some commentary on Latin right now, let's dunk this shit commentary style.

actually – Use of the adverbial intensifier to emphasize how much he thinks of his opinion.

actually – Same as before.

I will – Failure to contract is a formalization of speech. Liars frequently slip into more formal speech when lying to seem more believable ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman")

literally – You really want us to think that you'll do this.

actually - 3x actually in a 2 line post. Wow. You are being soooooooooo honest

~~~~~

In other news, I will be in meetings all day so I will not be around. I realize deadline is 16 hours away. I'll be back in like 8 or so, and will be here until deadline.

[Titan]

Oh hey, look I didn't use contractions two times. I must really want you all to believe I will be in meetings all day >_>

[Titan]

That's the post that keeps bugging me because it makes absolutely no sense. I was going to hunt it down, but that's what I was looking for.

Lunch break fly by weeeeeeeeeeeee

I'm probably going to vote there AGAIN but I'm gonna waffle a little longer.

[Titan]

Because really what does the neighborhood have to do with it?

[Titan]

I posted something in our hydra QT and flipped back to this thread and saw your post, clyton.

What I posted was that If I were playing on my own, I'd probably vote peregrine as a consensus measure with Mac and Kagura, with a full understanding that it's a compromise likely to result in a mislynch.

This is basically an untenable day 1 for me. I could put a vote *somewhere* and feel more useful I guess, but if I'm going to do that - waste our vote - I'd rather just not vote and take the heat for that tomorrow.

RBD have indicated they'll gladiate one of my townreads tomorrow, so even if they survive today, tomorrow looks like another shit game day.

OH. MY. GODS.

This post says exactly how I feel.

Would you like to join me here?

[Titan]

Not sure what the hesitance is Tammy. You've voted to lynch people with much less certainty before.

Stop it.

Your posting towards me and me trying to figure this out starting last night feels like manipulation, not like you're interested in where I'm coming from or what I'm trying to figure out.

[Titan]

oh god maybe BroDesp are scum.

The thing is I'm not going to really buy anyone's reads from the neighborhood when I don't see good reasons to call them town here too, and that's probably a bit hypocritical as I've expected people to take my word on people in a neighborhood with me. But I also know that I tend to Scumhunt and talk quite a bit in a neighborhood, so. But in Viscon empire cleared his entirely scum filled nieghborhood and I've not been able to really trust other people's neighborhood reads since then :/

[Titan]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[Titan]

Not sure what the hesitance is Tammy. You've voted to lynch people with much less certainty before.

Stop it.

Your posting towards me and me trying to figure this out starting last night feels like manipulation, not like you're interested in where I'm coming from or what I'm trying to figure out.

It is not uncommon for me to ask specific people to vote for my scumreads.

I think my problem this game is that I figured things out at a faster pace than others possibly because I spent too much time reading it. In general, if we figure things out together at the same pace, the discussion would be more productive. But here I feel like I already figured it out and am waiting for you to do it which means I am pushing my solidified reads while you are trying to solidify them and that created more of a clash and impatience from my end. I'll to reign it down and I want to get on the same page as you. What are your thoughts so far about the latest developments of the game.

You're not asking me to vote for your scum reads though, and you're not trying to get to the bottom of why I might be hesitant though I'm pretty sure I said why yesterday. You got after me for voting and unvoting last night, though anyone who's ever played with me before should be able to follow that, and then you're saying you don't understand my hesitancy and I've voted being less certain before. Sure, I have but that doesn't really have much bearing on right now.

I am much more okay to vote somewhere I don't feel great about when there is some semblance of town cohesion or direction. There is none here, at all. This game has fractured into factions who are just yelling and fist pumping they're right and right now I can't tell if it's a bunch of town silently being egged on by scum who are benefitting or if it's scum yelling the loudest. This game doesn't make any gorram sense to me right now, and I can't figure out who I'll be helping with m vote.

I don't think you have the game figured out as solidly as you think you do because it doesn't feel like the game makes sense that way.

[Titan]

I'm not going to vote rancid at this point though, they just don't make sense as scum.

[Titan]

There are some things about them that make sense as scum, but *they* don't make sense as scum.

...I don't think.

I'm pretty sure.

[Titan]

Can we lynch ap or desbro?

[Titan]

Jus - who are your top three scum reads?

[Titan]

You're not asking me to vote for your scum reads though, and you're not trying to get to the bottom of why I might be hesitant though I'm pretty sure I said why yesterday. You got after me for voting and unvoting last night, though anyone who's ever played with me before should be able to follow that, and then you're saying you don't understand my hesitancy and I've voted being less certain before. Sure, I have but that doesn't really have much bearing on right now.

I am much more okay to vote somewhere I don't feel great about when there is some semblance of town cohesion or direction. There is none here, at all. This game has fractured into factions who are just yelling and fist pumping they're right and right now I can't tell if it's a bunch of town silently being egged on by scum who are benefitting or if it's scum yelling the loudest. This game doesn't make any gorram sense to me right now, and I can't figure out who I'll be helping with m vote.

I don't think you have the game figured out as solidly as you think you do because it doesn't feel like the game makes sense that way.

Okay. My question about hesitancy was more of why you were trying to be absolutely certain before placing a vote as opposed to going with someone who has a decent chance of being scum. For instance, I remembered in PYP, you voted for PowerOfDeath even though you thought that you weren't sure and even though you actually thought there was a pretty good chance that he was town. Now, it seems like you need to be absolutely certain beyond 100% doubt that RBD is scum and if you have even the slightest doubt that they may be town, you'd default to not voting them or voting an unnamed counterwagon even though the same principle should apply to everyone you are voting for (i.e. you can't be absolutely certain PV is scum either, but you are not going to use that standard before you vote him.

I think it should be fairly obvious to you that I am town and Pieguyn is town even if nothing else. You'd obviously be helping us push our wagon. There is a good chance RBD is scum, that AP is scum, and that Mastin is scum. Because you can't be certain isn't a reason to vote a lurker because you can't be certain about that lurker being scum as well. RBD is no more an asset to the game than PV. Their primary contribution to the game has been yelling, insulting, and spamming and burying the thread.

You are misremembering the circumstances of pyp. I never voted power of death and never had any intention to. I said he was town but was a fine lynch because just about everyone was suspicious of him and he kept disappearing and when he did show up he was barely helpful. It didn't look like that was going to change, so he was dead weight that just about everyone wanted lynched. I don't fight those lynches.

[Titan]

Though this of course raises the slight concern that the DesBRO wagon goes through, is town, and F-16 uses it to launch a crusade against Rancid/myself.

what the actual fuck is this? THIS LITERALLY SERVES NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO DISCREDIT F-16

WHY THE FUCK IS NO ONE SEEING THE SHIT MASTIN IS PULLING IN THIS GAME

JUST FUCKING LOOK AT IT. IT'S COMPLETE FUCKING BULLSHIT

mastin is now going to quote this post and respond with some bullshit excuse that is nothing more than a blank check for scum to hide behind and or call attention to F-16's so-called "arrogance" or otherwise downplay his read on her. [/BRO]

I still wanna lynch RBD, but if not, anyone up for a mastin lynch?

-Y

That is not discrediting.

[Titan]

But if you want to take shitty potshots at me while still ignoring me, sure, go ahead! It's not like I don't feel like shit when I mess up in a spectacular way, it's not like I don't take steps to recalibrate and not make the same mistake again!

*hug*

[Titan]

That is not discrediting.

yes it is

he is referring to F-16 as some sort of negative utility for town by spinning what F-16 would do next as a negative action that needs to be avoided

by doing so he is devaluing F-16's opinions since ppl will be less inclined to pay attention to them. hence, discrediting

-Y

No, it's not and using this type of argument doesn't convince anyone. I've, as town, made a similar statement. He could just as easily be concerned about what is likely to happen tomorrow as he could be scum trying to setup a narrative.

[Titan]

Vore: orcinus

gut?

because my gut is a little unsettled about him.

Elaborate? I have I'm as town, but I don't know if it's just because he feels so different from vesperia.

[Titan]

Bro *hug*

[Titan]

ACTUALLY IM GIVING EVERYONE AN EHUG RIGHT NOW.

[Titan]

That is not discrediting.

yes it is

he is referring to F-16 as some sort of negative utility for town by spinning what F-16 would do next as a negative action that needs to be avoided

by doing so he is devaluing F-16's opinions since ppl will be less inclined to pay attention to them. hence, discrediting

-Y

No, it's not and using this type of argument doesn't convince anyone. I've, as town, made a similar statement. He could just as easily be concerned about what is likely to happen tomorrow as he could be scum trying to setup a narrative.

How the fuck do you see what's happening here Tammy?

It is not just the fact that he is saying "X is scum if Y flips town." It is the manipulative way that he is going about it trying to get other people to get mad at me.

Will you please stop getting after me? I took a break from mafia this week for a reason, and I'm trying to look at things objectively here.

[Titan]

Nacho, you're giving me whiplash.

[Titan]

Wow nacho/cf swinging things on me color me shocked

Pedit" jesus ok. Nacho can you be toen? You are the only sane person here. Please actually be town.

VOTE: orcinus

*insulted*


... Or I guess I would be if I weren't fucking crazy.

[Titan]

Will you please stop getting after me? I took a break from mafia this week for a reason, and I'm trying to look at things objectively here.

What are your thoughts about AP?

I've made it pretty clear I suspect ap.

[Titan]

ok fuck it. wow just fuck it. im a modified cop. i never actually got sent an actual pm, just skyped the details. every night i send THREe targets. The mafia team picks ONE of those and i get an investigate on the player. cabd told me that there is no explicit timing on when i need to have the 3 submits in by over night when i asked, but said to just be fast about it to keep things moving. but im in roleblock town for the rest of the game.

also my role only works while there are more than 9 players alive at night.

What does you are in roleblock town for the rest of the game mean?

[Titan]

Nacho, you're giving me whiplash.

Good.

I'm glad you stopped ignoring me long enough to be happy you're driving me insane >_>

[Titan]

OH in that case, that's not necessarily true, it just depends on how things go.

Though why wouldn't you just expect to die?

[Titan]

VOTE: orcinus

it feels somewhat wrong though

[Titan]

VOTE: orcinus

it feels somewhat wrong though

I love you.

[Titan]

Will you vote Pidgeon with me, Tammy?

Not today. I want to see how this plays out. Granted I hate the "I'll be roleblocked thing" because it feels like how Zach slid in he would be roleblocked in swagtown, and there is a roleblocker so it has me twitchy, but I'm not sure lynching him today is the right move.

UNVOTE:

[Titan]

mastin's reaction to BRO was

100% a scum reaction

. town actually gives a shit about the other players in the game. he does not.

because he is deliberately trying to induce apathy and feelings of despair in town.

he's scum who doesn't know how to react to it going to o far, so he jsut ignores it and hopes he can just skate by.

you can all listen to me and lynch obvscum today, or you can just watch it all fly by. your call

I'll just keep repeating this till you all listen to me kthx

-Y

If you vote orcinus today, I will listen to you tomorrow.

Why don't I get this same offer?

He can make out with you in the neighborhood.

[Titan]

Why is Orc voting himself?

[Titan]

can someone with more orc experience than me tell me if orc is someone who would vote himself as town?

[Titan]

You guys do realize he's already said he won't get access to the neighborhood right?

[Titan]

You guys do realize he's already said he won't get access to the neighborhood right?

I dont care. I just want to be in a neighborhood for claiming results or whatever else. but i realize thats sort of not going to be arranged unless i look up my game flavor

That was to muffin who was asking implying that he would talk to cf in the neighborhood.

[Titan]

How does the role work? doesn't sound like a governor.

He's basically promising lynch immunity to anyone who doesn't lynch him.

VOTE: orcinus

you are actually so fucking bad at this game

Fuck you, I'm out.

you're going to post me a nice long paragraph explaining what happened the last fourty pages and why you suddenly have this massive boner for an orc flashwagon or i am going to put you up against tammy to be lynched

that would be a bit ironic.

[Titan]

I feel like in that situation I would be the one lynched.

I'm debating on claiming to avoid silliness, but I need to step out real quick. I'll be back in just a few.

[Titan]

Falcon - I see your post. I need to run out real quick, but I'll be back in like a half an hour and will respond then.

[Titan]

Okay, just writing this out before I head out. I'll be back in an hour or so definitely before deadline so don't lynch anyone. Nacho, there's something I want to talk to you about but I can always do it in the neighborhood since deadline is imminent. Or I'll just do it once I get back.

Tammy, I am not

getting

this game and I think it is my fault but I am not sure where I am going wrong. It would help if you explain it or point out where I am going about it the wrong way so I can use that to approach the game better in the following days. I don't want to make this game unfun for anyone and I am sorry for doing that so far. There are a whole bunch of things that I think I am missing the subtexts for and not quite understanding why I am unable to make progress in this game. I don't think I have it all figured out quicker than anyone else, I was just overconfident in my scumreads. I'd do better if someone can actually explain what the issue is.

Here is the stuff I didn't really understand. You voted Orc even though you feel bad about it just when Nacho told you to vote Orc without really asking what your thoughts about him were but never voted RBD even when I said basically the same thing. That is, you didn't agonize over voting him or spend a lot of time trying to figure it out, you almost just voted on a whim. Maybe it is because I approached it in the wrong way. I know you have your reasons for doing that, I just feel like I am playing sub-optimally because I am pushing forward without really understanding what those reasons are and how to present that reasoning. I am sure there is a whole lot of things that are different for both players, but I want to understand what those are so I don't head off on the wrong track without realizing the differences. I can take a guess that one reason is that Orc was inactive and RBD were here and active although I am not aware of any others.

The other thing is that we were pretty much on the same page in this game even a couple days ago and were doing fine even to the point that you were the only one besides Desp who actually considered the possibility that Mastin and AP were bussing which is a really unconventional theory. But I think now, we are viewing the game differently and I'm not sure why. I think I missed a few crucial deductions that changed the gamestate from your POV but not mine. I'd like to know why and I think there is a good chance I can get back on the same page as you and others. Can you explain where I am going wrong (with the entire last few pages)?

I don't think you're making the game unfun for anyone and I never said that. I would just really ignore muffin when he says things insulting (and this goes for you too Bro) because what I've learned about muffin is that he feeds off those reactions he gets from people. If you don't believe me about that go read the neighborhood from Attack on Titan and see how he was talking about kthnxbye. He's overly hostile in many games and treats people like shit and quite frankly I don't really read a whole bunch of what he says because I hate when he talks to people the way he does. (and yes, I realize that at times I'm not exactly pleasant, but)

I *did* vote them last night; it was part of the source of you getting after me for voting and unvoting. A part of me would like to put an end to the noise and not have to deal with watching him insult people in the game which I feel is pretty inevitable especially with the way this game is going, but I do really like his other head AND I'm not sure they're scum.

I partly voted Orc to see where it would go, but considering I unvoted as soon as it got to L-1, I think it should be clear that I wasn't ready to see it go through.

I am also not getting this game, but what I am trying to do is be a bit objective. When I said I took a break from mafia this week for a reason, I meant it. I near replaced out of every game I was in just because things were getting to me and I was over it. I'm trying to be a bit more objective right now and not let so many things get to me. That was what I was referring to when asking you not to get after me. I'm at the point where I'd near almost lynch anyone. I still don't have a strong bank of town I'd bet the game on though I'd be super duper shocked if you flipped scum.

At the moment I don't even know how to parse this game. It's been extraordinarily noisy, I can't tell if it's just a bunch of noisy town with scum hiding and egging things on, or if it's scum who are playing to a whole bunch of theater. At the moment it has me feeling damn near paralyzed because the game doesn't make sense to me at all, and I don't know how to make it make sense right now.

[Titan]

Okay so basically Orcinus can self-govern but put up two people in his place for the lynch?

[Titan]

He's overly hostile in many games and treats people like shit and quite frankly I don't really read a whole bunch of what he says because I hate when he talks to people the way he does

Get the fuck over this

I asked you multiple times in AoT to explain your reads and you wouldn't. I told you the way that you're playing is bad (i.e. objectively so because you're not convincing anyone of anything by just repeating "I think X is scum") and you whined about me calling you a bad player.

I don't set out to be mean to people, I just have an extremely low tolerance for people who cannot justify things they say

You *claim* this is your playstyle and that you can never explain anything. That just looks to me like you're, as you so kindly said to Nati, shooting in the dark and getting lucky when you happen to be right.

At no point have I ever set out to be vindictive without first seeing something really fucking nonsensical coming from the other party

I wasn't even referring to the way you talked to me. And I *did* explain my reads. I told you why town was town, you just thought it was a shit reason because you thought you were right, but if you would have looked at the game I was referencing for a baseline, you might have understood where I was coming from. I also explained that the person whose posts I was reading as scum felt fake and fabricated. You just couldn't accept that because you were reading him as town. I rarely have good reasons for why I read people the way I do on day one, but if you would have paid attention to the things I posted in the neighborhood that game the moment we had a scum flip, and I had actual information, you would see that I do sometimes have reasons that are pretty sound, I just don't always on day one. I have never claimed to be a good day one player, ever. I sometimes have pretty damn good reads on day one, but that's a rarity, and it's even rarer that I can actually build a good case day one.

Have you never used gut for anything? Because as I said in that game, what I was posting pretty much amounted to gut reactions based on their posts.

What I'm referring to with your vindictiveness though is the way you went after kthnxbye, and yeah maybe he was being a bit nonsensical but it still didn't warrant the way you spoke to him and as you were posting in the neighborhood that you shouldn't be saying what you were saying but dammit it's just so much fun is where I'm getting the way you revel in how you talk to people. I mean you can be funny as fuck sometimes but it's like you just forget that there are actual people you are talking to sometimes.

[Titan]

I"m worried that Nacho was bussing Orci.

[Titan]

@TAMMY

Spoiler:

I dunno. I don't even really dislike you as a player, even if I have issues with the way you sometimes play the game, but I feel you don't really understand why I do the things I do

Have you never used gut for anything? Because as I said in that game, what I was posting pretty much amounted to gut reactions based on their posts

I have used gut, but I have never pretended that "gut" is a really good reason, and that others should listen to me and see where I'm coming from because of "gut".

Our conversation in AoT was quite literally you telling me you thought you were right and me telling you that's not how a conversation works because if you aren't going to explain your reads then we can't have a conversation about them, and then you complaining I didn't see where you were coming from.

How is someone meant to react to that? I mean, if you don't feel that is an accurate representation of the conversation, I can pull up the direct quotes, but that is exactly what I was seeing in our conversation, and I was just flabbergasted that you thought you were making sense.

Like I really wasn't trying to be mean to you there, and I probably could have chosen my words better, but I don't fucking know how to deal with someone who is complaining that I don't see where they're coming from while not giving me any reason to see where they're coming from

To be fair I was frustrated with you before we started talking in the neighborhood and suspected you. I really felt like Plum was town and you helped mislynch her, and then when I asked you about why you claimed your flavor in the neighborhood you kinda scoffed at me that it wasn't real and I should have known that. Before that day, before that lynch, I thought you were town. And then I did feel like you were coming after me, and here's the absolute worst part of my playstyle. I doubt myself way way way too much. And I doubt myself the most when I actually have to explain my reads because I can find reasons for why I'm wrong. I was frustrated in the neighborhood, I don't do well at explaining myself when I'm frustrated and when I feel like people are trying to frustrate me, which is what it felt like to me in that game.

I'm pretty transparent and if I am able to explain things I will. If i can't, I can't and there's not much more I can do about that.

What I'm referring to with your vindictiveness though is the way you went after kthnxbye, and yeah maybe he was being a bit nonsensical but it still didn't warrant the way you spoke to him and as you were posting in the neighborhood that you shouldn't be saying what you were saying but dammit it's just so much fun is where I'm getting the way you revel in how you talk to people. I mean you can be funny as fuck sometimes but it's like you just forget that there are actual people you are talking to sometimes.

Did you even.... read the game? He literally called me scum because I didn't receive his fruit vendor message and Nati hammered Kaze <- those were his entire reasons for thinking I was scum. What... the... fuck? I'm not even making that up, if you read #2226 in that game, like holy shit.

Yeah, my reaction to it could have been over the top, but I honestly expect players outside of Road to Rome to have at least a little fucking common sense

One of the main fucking things I hate about mafia is trying to make sense of the nonsensical. When people do stuff that makes sense, fun games can be had by all, regardless of who wins or loses. When people do stuff like what Kthx did, it sucks the fucking enjoyment out of the fucking game. The amount of people I've gone off at in mafia games is probably like 5% - I generally get along well with most people. At the least, I've had no issues with most players I've played with. But every now and then, someone just ruins the fucking enjoyment for me and I react in turn.

This game? I see DespBro calling me scum because I'm buddying Mastin. Look at any fucking game I've played with Mastin, ever. I figure out Mastin's alignment within a few posts every time. You know this, you've seen it, in the same games BRO was in. AoT? Took me a small number of posts to figure out Mastin was scum and I stuck to that vote for the entire three days it took to lynch him. Too Many Heads? I had him figured out within the first couple posts after he replaced in and stuck with that read for the rest of the game. In games you haven't been in, it's the same deal. The most recent Xeno game? I had Mastin figured out from his opening posts and "buddied" him the rest of the game because of it. Mastin is someone I have an amazingly easy time reading, I do not think I'm shooting in the dark with this, and I do think he is town here.

BRO should really know I do this with Mastin. He's been in all the recent games it's happened. Him calling me scum for it is almost fucking laughable. And it is quite literally the only reason he's given (apart from minor things like "RBD is trolling" which... yeah not even going to talk about that) so what the fuck am I meant to do with this? He should know it's bullshit. Anyone who has any recent history with me and mastin should know it's bullshit. How the fuck can he think there's a point to be made here.

What's worse is you have a heavy meta player (F16) who really has no excuse not to know this about me/mastin if he's read ANY games me/mastin have played together. And he thinks DespBro has a point here. And he thinks we're both scum with AP because.... ??????????????????????? Scum theatre? ??????????? ??????????????

If my posts seem like they're injected with vitriol here, it's because I loathe that sort of playstyle. It's why (prior to the miller counter-claim) I told Nati I'm no longer playing the game - I cannot deal with players who play like that. It's fucking enraging because not only are they playing like that, they have the sheer fucking arrogance of thinking they're right about something I know to be 100% wrong. Like I generally have confidence in my reads, but at no point do I ever say something like F16 said recently ("I've figured out the game earlier than others"). Holy fucking shit that post. I could honestly not believe how fucking arrogant someone so fucking wrong could be.

I am aware I could... be nicer? I guess... And I do get a kick out of seeing reactions to me baiting people. But I do not just do it for no reason. I don't set out to be a dick to people. I just react to things in a dickish way when I see something I cannot tolerate

I know you pointed to that being nonsensical, but you also know you took joy in coming down on him the way you did.

And I do know about how well you can read Mastin. Why do you think part of half this game is fucking with my head. The way I see the game either you and mastin are town or you're sucm together. You being scum together doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But, the way that you've treated my slot doesn't really make a lot of sense to me either. And it's not about not thinking I'm super obvtown, but that whole post about me flailing? and seeming like I was similar to Too Many Heads? Just reads really really off. I'd feel a whole bunch better if Nati had said he was scum reading me because I seemed similar to Red Wine because at least I'd be able to see where he's coming from, but Too Many Heads?

I feel like I just got lost in this wall because I'm doing three things at once right now, but I'm glad you responded to me. I still suspect JSU because a bunch of their play just doesn't make sense, and part of it is that.[/spoiler]

[Titan]

sorry for fucking up the spoiler

[Titan]

And it's not about not thinking I'm super obvtown, but that whole post about me flailing? and seeming like I was similar to Too Many Heads? Just reads really really off. I'd feel a whole bunch better if Nati had said he was scum reading me because I seemed similar to Red Wine because at least I'd be able to see where he's coming from, but Too Many Heads?

You would have to ask Nati about that (I really do not know, he never explained his read on you with anything other than tone)

He knows he interprets things way differently than I do, and our reads this game haven't been in sync at all here (which is kinda unusual for us, and since he hasn't had much time for mafia lately, we haven't had a chance to actually talk about reads in any depth). The best explanation I can give is that he reads you off of emotions and passion and he wasn't seeing the typical town-Tammy he was used to seeing. I think a lot of this came from the back-and-forths between you and F16 in the first 50 pages that killed his motivation to play this game.

(Side note: I may have suspected Plum early in AoT but I was never a part of the wagon when it took off and I never supported the lynch so I dunno why you were frustrated with me having a part in that one unless you just mean I suspected Plum really early in D1 and people sheeped that suspicion? *shrug*)

He needs to broaden his horizons for how he reads me then! My mood and my alignment dictate my posts. I've quite frankly been feeling a bit burnt out on mafia lately, which is partly influenced by frustration over drama and me just being really busy right now and overloaded in too many games. Although I recently died in two games so that's lessened a bit. Although I do think that tone is a really good way to read me, what I'm doing in a game is the best way. But I think the majority of my play has actually been explaining why I'm thinking the way I am, so I'm not sure on the problem there.

(As far as AoT, perhaps I'm misattributing some of the day one mislynch to you. I have a tendency to get really frustrated when someone I'm reading as pretty decent town gets mislynched and I was irritated with how that went down. I don't even know if you were on the wagon right now because I don't have things memorized but I do remember being pretty irritated in general.)

[Titan]

Do I need to hammer?

[Titan]

VOTE: lb

[Titan]

hey guys good lynch

-tammy

[Titan]

I'm amused that someone thinks I would actually sign my posts. >_>

The only question cabd would answer me is that it was janitored, which leads me to believe they were a mafia kill because why would there be a town janitor? Unless I suppose they were a self-janitor?

Oh he did answer another question that the op is correct and there is no third party and just four mafia, though I'd have to get back up and out of bed to check to see if he responded to my multifactional question, I suppose it could be two teams of two, but that doesn't feel right.

But then that would mean a VIG tried to kill someone Mac thought was town enough to protect because I refuse to believe a VIG shot him.

ANYWAY, I don't really count a silent vote on someone you were already voting yesterday you doing something enough to bitch about later posts, so if you have something new you can share.

Also also I'd love to hear your updated kagura read from the neighborhood because I've grown more than a little suspicious about them.

Also cubed I'm taking a break from mafia right now. I don't really have the mental energy for it and will basically just be around in short little bursts if I don't feel like slitting my wrists.

[Titan]

Also Quattro I'd love a xillia nieghborhood if there are others and falcon wants to be kind.

[Titan]

lb was a retard and didn't no lynch

more after this quick aram game

r u srs

[Titan]

lol

[Titan]

too funny

[Titan]

vote ap

[Titan]

i dont remember ap as this angry in previous games ive seen him in

[Titan]

I think there are likely 2 scum in Stalin/Titan/PV. This push on me is actually ridiculous. Anyone with half a brain should understand why I did what I did and its pretty fucking baffling that I might get MISLYNCHED over my really strong point on F16.

have you literally called the whole playerlist scum at some point?

[Titan]

I skimmed some earlier and saw Stalin I think wonder about my thoughts. I probably won't be able to give any thoughts until tomorrow. I did tell Clyton that there was too much posting yesterday and didn't know what to make of it. I didn't really read most of it though.

I did, however, start my garden yesterday and I'm feeling all zen right now; there's just something really peaceful about playing in dirt so the thought of reading the game doesn't have me on edge as much.

Though I am getting ready to head back to work soon and unless I get a second wind when I get home tonight I know I won't be able to read and process everything. So, maaaaybe tonight but most likely tomorrow.

[Titan]

I am trying to catch up on this game but my kitten is laying next to me snoring and I keep stopping to just watch how adorable he is and I'm feeling myself drift off in the process, so I'll probably fall asleep before I can actually get anywhere and this is a useless post but I wanted everyone to know I have a cute fucking cat.

[Titan]

I'd love to hear your updated kagura read from the neighborhood because I've grown more than a little suspicious about them.

I too had a lot of doubts about Nacho in the neighborhood. I'm not really sure if it is because we disagreed with the gamestate so much.

Nacho coming in and telling me to stop telling RBD not to use personal insults felt weird and him saying that Just Sheep Us were creating a carnival of Lunacy felt even wierder because to me, it seemed like it was RBD all along. I want to hear an objective viewpoint on whether any of how Nacho interpreted the gamestate made any sense whatsoever.

I argued at Nacho in the QT

Then I posted rebuttals to all of his posts towards the end of deadline. What worried me most was the

timing

of when he showed up. He was gone all game and suddenly, four hours or so before deadline, he was here and starting up multiple wagons.

I know you still have suspicions of BRO and Desp. However, their posting in the neighborhood felt incredibly transparent and townish. I hope it'll be apparent in the thread as well. Desp was going back and forth with Nacho as well about how his timing of showing up was weird. I also felt that he had no reason to be so frustrated with the gamestate when he wasn't even playing the game although he said he was reading.

But Bork felt really, really town and I am not sure how to reconcile with Nacho as scum. But everytime I saw Nacho, I got bad vibes from him. At one point, he posted a list of his reads in the neighborhood and I got the same NY169 bad vibes.

And yeah, I'll activate your neighborhood if there's anyone else in it.

Tbh at the moment I'm a little annoyed at desbros comment about me not doing enough yesterday at deadline. I don't really know what was expected of me or what people think I'm able to do. I'm not a miracle worker and have a tendency to get overwhelmed and could barely keep up with what was going on, but maybe I'm being a bit sensitive there. I hope they do start being transparent in thread because that would really help. I'm still pretty concerned there, but I'm not going to push it because if I'm wrong I'll feel like a total piece of shit, so cabd can listen and I'll just wait right now.

Nacho does concern me very much and I'm not really seeing any reason for Bork being uber town. I know that he's someone who's pretty transparent, but I'm not seeing it at all. If he's saving up all his cool town posts for the neighborhood, he should start bringing them in thread too. I just feel like he's here, and again if it weren't for nacho being his other head, and that being a constant presence and concern for me, I wouldn't even remember Bork was playing.

Thank you for the neighborhood, now I need to catch up so I can be a useful neighbor

[Titan]

I've had flashes of paranoia about nacho, but if this isn't town-bork his scum game has evolved incredibly since We the Purple. I don't think it's possible to change that much, that fast without a few scum games in between.

Funny story. Last year at westeros after playing a horrible scum game, Mina drew scum in a game I didn't play in. Almost everyone in the game altguessed her as me, and because she played an incredible scum game, which looked nothing like my scum game, everyone had her as strong town. After the game when she saw how everyone thought she was me, she was a bit miffed because she felt like it detracted from the effort she put in as scum as it felt like to her that she won because I have such a horrible scum game instead of because she did a good job. I vowed that the next time I drew scum, I'd play a decent game. I drew scum the very next game (with my other head, hah!) and I worked my ass off. I had a rocky start, but I recovered and by end of day one I was most peoples strongest town read. I was overwrought with guilt and broke down to the mods multiple times, but I did it. You can see a similar thing happen with empire in asoiaf. He decided he was going to prove to himself he could play as scum and threw himself into it.

Maybe they are town, maybe this is town!bork, but it's not unheard of that someone decides they're going to really try to put forth the effort and has the scum game of their lives even without practice.

Okay that was rambly, I'm near sleeping now, probably.

[Titan]

Um I'm not sure if anyone commented or corrected mastin on his lb could be scum thing due to it being a cabd game, but I'm really certain that's not the case? I'm in bed and not at my computer, so I don't have access to Skype right now, but I'm pretty sure that's one of the questions I asked upon seeing the flip, so I *think* we can trust those results.

[Titan]

Mastin - do your school work and don't fail. Please

Also some town players do hate being scum read. Case in point me.

~~~

Hahaha ap - if you'd ever played in a game with me and seen me fuck up role information, you'd understand. Sometimes things don't register.

~~~

@TammyTitan- it IS in his name.

I don't think I'll ever stop being amused when people get Arthur and me mixed up :p

~~~

Eh just got to Post 3514. Need to think.

~~~

Oh Post 3515 apparently understands someone couldn't keep up and missed something about his role but has the nerve to say I didn't do more at deadline. Yeah I'm still annoyed.

~~~

Um ap - did you miss where lb said he could come back? Also also are you really so not understanding the immediate reactions to you? You are a pretty decent suspect yesterday, get a wagon, you claim cop at deadline, you come into today claiming you investigated a claimed miller and got a town result and you actually think people are supposed to go "doh he's town committing a gambit of course!" When the more natural reaction is lol scum caught. Like seriously.

~~~

Posting in case I fall asleep.

Pedit: mastin I'm pretty sure my question to cabd was if lb could come back as scum, and I'm pretty sure the answer was no or something along those lines, but still in bed, still not wanting to get up, will check tomorrow.

[Titan]

Oh haha I'm jus now reading the tales of the abyss neighborhood, I didn't read that before. Seeing nachos progression of a read on me was amusing. Suffice it to say, I don't think that him saying that he put reads in their other qt is a sign of confirmed town because he didn't trust his neighbors. One, we don't know if they were neighbors at that point. Two, nacho isn't shy about his town reads. Three, I'll save three in case I'm crazy.

[Titan]

You and I was explicitly told that my role failed.

Hmph. Ok. This result (and only this result) is consistent with my worldview.

Why did you start out with a fake report on CF?

-b

IM FUCKING USELESS ARENT I?

[Titan]

No niño...the tales of abyss game. Nacho was in a neighborhood I was looking for his neighborhood behavior.

[Titan]

If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And

yes I got a result on Kagura

.

VOTE: AP

Why did it bother you that ap got a result on kagura?

[Titan]

WTF did you EXPECT me to do then? My initial reaction was to be upset that it was blown out of the water before I could so much as narrow my eyes menacingly at F16.

For now, I'm working on the assumption this is a fundamental clash of mindset. Despite all the morph games, I'm not a gambiter and I don't think like a gambiter. And your gambit is so raw around the edges that my automatic reaction was "caught scum".

Tammy will appreciate the irony, since the rough-edged town-gambit that morph-cabd ran in a recently finished game garnered a ton of suspicion and in part led to our mislynch a few days later.

[Titan]

If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And

yes I got a result on Kagura

.

VOTE: AP

I was surprised to have gotten a target but "failed" because the wording of my PM sort of suggests that being blocked would NOT give me that information. So I sot of considered that a result and that is why I wanted to have Kagura check in before I claimed it,

I don't know? I followed up with Cabd a little when I saw it and he basically said he wasn't allowed to elaborate but that he could tell me that I "attempted" to investigate Kagura. So I dont know.

I expected to not be told anything about my target if I were RBd

But why are they voting you because you got a result on kagura?

Am I missing something? Smoking crack? Delirious because I should have been asleep hours ago and I'm making myself stay awake? Inquiring minds?!?

[Titan]

CF </3

[Titan]

Town couldn't roleblock you ap. The town roleblocker is in a murky space waiting to return. I doubt he has night actions while in purgatory, but it's nice to know the town one was revealed. I thought there'd be one.

[Titan]

My thought is vig. I've given some minor thought to 2 scum teams, and it might make sense of where the daytime lines get drawn, but I'm nowhere near convinced that's what's going on.

Please tell me this isn't real

I forget who suggested it. I've rolled it around in my head a few times. I dunno. I don't think so. The puzzle pieces aren't coming together very easily, though.

I think the huge divergence in RBD reads indicates two very different fragments of town in this game, with two strongly divergent ideas about what is going on.

I think that came from me as it was part of my whatsgoingoncabd?!? Though, I'm pretty sure he said no, I never did check our conversation, and falcon said the OP has it as just one scum team.

But I did wonder if scum had a second kill ability or something else. He wouldn't answer that though. That I do remember.

[Titan]

Ffery was that you who said you thought you guys were obvious town by late day one?

[Titan]

Ah I mean I obviously don't mind things like that being said, but I thought you said you'd be less likely to say that over the town as fuck convo we had.

[Titan]

What I liked about Orci's use of the cage fight yesterday was that when he came in he originally said he was considering putting me and nacho/Bork against each other. I said that would be ironic, that I thought I'd get lynched in that case and that I'd claim in case of silliness. He told me not to. Idk I liked the tone of that exchange.

[Titan]

Also I've almost now been up for 24 hours. There's a good chance I fall asleep before finishing catching up and there's also a good chance any comments I make from here on out are little more than gibberish. Please don't expect coherent answers to anything anyone asks or says if I somehow stay awake.

[Titan]

I'm pretty sure I remember a reads list. I think I remember two of them. One before cage fight and one during.

I haven't made a reads list. Why doesn't that bother you?

[Titan]

<------ lockbox

[Titan]

Screw it, I'll call Titan conftown. And I'm eliminating Red Gyarados for the time being. (Still want more ns, though. And BS, for that matter.) And let's take Kats out for the heck of it.

You make me want to vote these people.

Dooooooo eeeeeeeeet

[Titan]

(I almost never post reads lists)

And for the conversation, i thought gif asking pie made the slot more likely to be town. I was frustrated because it influenced my read I the same way mastin replacing into a hydra with falcon incfluenced my read in attack on Titan. I just don't know that I see gif asking lie to relate into a scum hydra. I just really don't as it really wouldn't do a while lot to help the slot if scum whereas as town it would.

Pedit: that feels like a bad vote

[Titan]

Also that ... post is my last serious post of the night. I have to translate some Golden Ass for class tomorrow (totes bombed my Satyricon quiz today, because sight-translating stuff where you don't know 1/2 the words is unsurprisingly difficult).

But yeah, that was a serious post.

Lol. But iirc correctly the satyricon has some odd words.

[Titan]

Why is nobody commenting on my Mac-rolestopped/BGed-Kagura theory?

I guess its plausible. My results could strongly point to Mac being rolestopping Kagura.

Mac role stopping kagura? Or you?

Can't be kagura.

[Titan]

Pedit: that feels like a bad vote

Well, yeah. Quite explicitly. But I felt like I had to throw it out there, anyway. It felt like something that needed to be said.

It probably won't stay there longer than a day or two at most, but I kinda really want to leave it out there for a while. Because in spite of being what feels like a really bad idea, it felt good to make in spite of that.

I actually have no words anymore. It might be because its 5am. It might be because I just read what might be the most ridiculous thing I'll read on the internet. It might be because Im wondering if Mastin is the cheekiest scum player and just trolling around the thread for fun. I just. Nope. Im broke.

I do have words on the rolesotp thing though. Wouldnt a rolestop ALSO -stop a kill-? I dont see how the spec is really interesting anyhow (especially if <--- that is true) because it doesnt prove anything about KAgura. MAc wsa an extremely viable scumkill by himself.

Thanks ffery, that makes more sense. The link ffery posted has role stoppers as not stopping kills. But I wouldn't bet the farm on that because how would Bork know that's why it failed? It has to be something else.

[Titan]

I had every intention of catching up in this game last night when I got home but then tequila and wine was involved and mafia didn't happen. I'm hungover today but I'm only 5 pages behind, I think, so later.

[Titan]

So, you know what I did today instead of read this game? Built a balcony compost bin, plant veggies, plant flowers (omigod I am building the most zen reading space ever you should all be jealous), clean, play with my cat, not read this game OHM OHM OH FUCKING MMMMMM.

catching up now swear.

[Titan]

If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And

yes I got a result on Kagura

.

VOTE: AP

Why did it bother you that ap got a result on kagura?

I'm pretty sure you did not answer this. I'm pretty sure I want it answered.

[Titan]

VOTE: AngryPidgeon.

By the way, while I realize this vote is set up to be a reaction to F-16, and to some extent it is, I should clarify that it is something that I was already considering. The main reasons I have for not wanting AP dead are (1) the chance his role is legitimately town, and (2) AP being AP. Both of which aren't exactly strong, 'specially given their handling. (In particular, AP this game, not the AP-town that I'd defend to the death.) And I'm considering the reasons for wanting PV dead, and really the main one I have is just what I said, sheeping Rancid. Whereas with AP, I have a lot of me in there. F-16's posting just served as the catalyst to set it in motion.

I think his claim does look plausible and if it is a fake-claim, it is pretty good one. The issue I have is that the way he claimed seemed off and his entire "gambit" seems like he is fishing for reasons for suspicion and presenting it some sort of great "find" feels disingenuous.

What about PV didn't feel like town-PV to you? And I am playing under the assumption that Rancid is scum because their play makes much more sense that way. Your defense that you wouldn't kill town-Rancid isn't really the issue. I am not sure who accused you of that. Breakfast I think was saying that Rancid was town but not the scum kill.

Also, probably the only person I'd trust to lead the town at the moment is Pieguyn.

Nacho does concern me very much and I'm not really seeing any reason for Bork being uber town. I know that he's someone who's pretty transparent, but I'm not seeing it at all. If he's saving up all his cool town posts for the neighborhood, he should start bringing them in thread too.

So the thing about Bork is that a lot of his posts resonated even when positionally, his stances were different from me. The way he is approaching the game and reacting to in-game events feel like they make sense from a town-POV. He hasn't posted a lot but for some reason, I remembered a lot of his posts. The way he engaged Rancid about my analysis on Mac and the way he posted that meta-wall on Mastin all felt really town. Do you find any similarities between his play here and We The Purple? I know you deferred this read to Nacho but if happened to remember anything significant about his posting, that'll be cool to hear.

Remind me to come back to you on this if I don't do it myself.

[Titan]

Omigod I'm gonna come right out and day it and it's gonna make me look bad but wjatever.

I have a hard time hard town reading rancid pirates. And it's because of *natis* post to me about flailing. He referenced a town game and didn't engage, and when I questioned it it went unanswered really. I'm sorry I know it sounds weird, i know it does, but natis response to me was off. I just if that was muffin talking to me all game I'd be like whatev, but it wasn't so I have no idea what to think about them.

[Titan]

...I kinda want to lynch mastin. I have no idea if he's scum, but I feel like puzzle pieces could fall into place.

[Titan]

Oh...fuck.