Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Mafia - Game Over

[AGar]

I am... ALIVE.


I'll be caught up in a few hours. Gotta dope up on pain meds first because fuck my feet.

[AGar]

Hey. Waynegg. Sweet.

Caught your post and have just flicked forward to post this. So now I have a question which occurred to me at the time.

Did you out your ENTIRE scumteam in that one post earlier?

You haven't even given a reason for any of them being town! Just "hey they're town townbloc yo"

And, how in the LORD'S HOLY FUCKING NAME can *I* be playing divide an conquer either as scum or town? Scum don't divide and conquer MASTIN and DEASVAIL, mastin of whom was

voting

deasvail? Probably based on picking up my own tell on des? Because otherwise he hasn't explained it? His gutread?

Town are awesome dividing and conquering scum - YEY. And picking up on stupid troll tells YEY.

VOTE: waynegg

My suit has 1-shot tracker, trump that BEATCH.

What in the literal fuck is this? Did you just claim because you

didn't like a players town reads? Because they might be gut-based?

Holy. Shit.

This is unbelievable.

---

DrDoolittle is tempting. He's like a bad DMSIS. Which is almost impressive.
leviathan has the tinfoil, and that's reminiscent of prior games if I'm recalling correctly.

mastin, plz be to walling, I can read you better that way. This one-liner thing ain't your schtick, and it's making it an incredibly awful time trying to get a handle on you.

VOTE: Majiffy

diescumdie, threats of hanging, etc

[AGar]

Agar - what's with your outrage at me claiming a pretty weak PR? Are you.. Going to.. *snicker* ..suggest I should be POLICEH LENCHED?

No, I was in actual disbelief that someone could be so petty and imbecilic to claim because they had their panties in a wad about not being included in some troll's townblock.

I'm not going to suggest you be policy lynched, I'm going to recommend the entirety of the game ignore you for the rest of the day. You clearly have no logical thought processes going on, so you're not going to help us find scum. If you are alive tomorrow, we can re-evaluate, but in the meantime you are beyond useless.

[AGar]

What have I done that is scummy?

You came in, made an offhand snide remark about how we should summon you when we were out of RVS when we clearly were, and went back to your regularly scheduled programming of nothing. If you are working those hours (and I'm not challenging that, I know what a bitch graveyard is), then your posting should be practically shitting gold. You should make the most of the opportunities you are getting to post.

Follow up has been better, but don't get indignant because

you

don't understand the wagon on you.

UNVOTE:

Alignment will be indicated with time via reads.

Fair enough.

VOTE: leviathan93

[insert rhetoric of choice here]

[AGar]

You came in, made an offhand snide remark about how we should summon you when we were out of RVS when we clearly were, and went back to your regularly scheduled programming of nothing. If you are working those hours (and I'm not challenging that, I know what a bitch graveyard is), then your posting should be practically shitting gold. You should make the most of the opportunities you are getting to post.

did you thoroughly read Majiffy's post

The one where he bitched about us still being in RVS? Yeah I did. And I hold to my point. Do you have an actual basis for asking this question, or you gonna hop off Majiffy's protective watch any time soon?

yo agar leviatan is like 100% town.

Yo kanye I like 100% disagree

To those that seem to think otherwise, the Majiffy wagon was never, at least for me, about lack of activity, but the really awkward reason given for not posting. If he's busy as town he'll say he's busy, not make up something about RVS, which is still what I suspect he's done. To someone who's actually read my post, this should be obvious, so I think that Majiffy claiming that the wagon on him is about a lack of posts, when I think he would notice that there were actual reasons for it from at least Talah and myself, is scummy. I don't like the continued justification for it in 275 either.

Um... no.

[AGar]

I don't know if it's normal but I don't feel good about wayne.
I'm going to do some more in depth reading before placing a vote.

Also nats is at most null. He is not asking all the right questions.

Jiffy reads town. So does Levi.
But like watch Levi become lynchbait as time progresses.

Okay. yeah.
Wayne's scum

VOTE: Wayne

Dat 1 minute of in depth reading.

[AGar]

AGar, if you think I'm wrong, please at least say why.

1) You're trying to project your reasoning onto the rest of the Majiffy wagon.
1A) Half the wagon didn't have a god damned reason to vote Majiffy
1B) I don't feel Majiffy ever "made anything up" to avoid posting instead of saying busy.

2) I don't think you actually believe that Majiffy "made up a reason" for not posting content. He was pretty straightforward in that he felt that we weren't at a point worth putting in the effort, and he's backed that up since. Whether that's a smart play or not is up for debate, whether that's what actually happened or not isn't. You're grasping for straws to try and stretch out a wagon that, quite frankly, is shit and should be dead by now.

[AGar]

The one where he bitched about us still being in RVS? Yeah I did. And I hold to my point. Do you have an actual basis for asking this question, or you gonna hop off Majiffy's protective watch any time soon?

I would have probably replaced out if this game was approaching 20 pages by now. This is the first I've been able to make a post not on my phone in this thread.

You should make the most of the opportunities you are getting to post.

have you ever tried posting from a phone
it's the most fking annoying thing in the history of history and it's pretty much impossible to post anything good.

I can't understand you saying something like this at all, while taking the above into account. this makes me think you're just coming up with reasons to accuse people, without even checking to see if they're valid or not = =

We're clearly talking about two different posts. When you learn to read mine and infer which I'm referring to (it's not hard), I'll continue this line of conversation. GL.

AGar, if you think I'm wrong, please at least say why.

1) You're trying to project your reasoning onto the rest of the Majiffy wagon.
1A) Half the wagon didn't have a god damned reason to vote Majiffy
1B) I don't feel Majiffy ever "made anything up" to avoid posting instead of saying busy.

2) I don't think you actually believe that Majiffy "made up a reason" for not posting content. He was pretty straightforward in that he felt that we weren't at a point worth putting in the effort, and he's backed that up since. Whether that's a smart play or not is up for debate, whether that's what actually happened or not isn't. You're grasping for straws to try and stretch out a wagon that, quite frankly, is shit and should be dead by now.

1) No, I think that the 'at least for me' shows that I wasn't.

2) I'm not sure why he said what he did about RVS now. Obviously he's not scum avoiding the thread, so that goes out the window, but I feel there are a few ways in which he hasn't been genuine. My scumread on Majiffy is quite all over the place right now though, but I still think he's the best bet for scum, if that makes any sense.

Do you have a townread on Majiffy?
And, if you don't think I believe what I'm saying, why aren't you voting for me?

1) No, it doesn't. It just tries to make it a hair subtler.
2) "Obviously he's not scum avoiding the thread." "I still think he's the best bet for scum." Ladies and gentlemen, DeasVail!

I think it's clear I do.
I think it's also clear that Leviathan is scummier.

---

Why you should vote Leviathan

By: AGar

- Comes in, votes a random person on an RVS wagon. RVS wagons happen all the time. But instead of actually trying to infer which of the three "RVS" votes might be the most likely to come from scum, he decides to just randomly choose one of them out of a hat or something.
- Backs this up with "one of you is probably scum, but there's no actual evidence."
- Posts 189, 192, 197, 200, 237, 296. That is 6 different cases of Levi refusing to handcuff himself to a particular read on a player in either direction. He actually apparently has zero reads 15 pages into this game.
- He's not actively attempting to garner any reads, nor is he attempting to question anyone's line of thought with regards to why votes are being cast. He's instead content to argue with Majiffy about Shit That Doesn't Matter

TM

.

TL;DR - We have a pattern of refusal to establish anything close to concrete reads that he'll stand by since the beginning of the game, and no actual attempts to gather who he would like to see lynched. People are accusing others of active lurking, but this is literally the textbook definition of it. It's simply smoke in mirrors, making it look like he's doing something but rather doing not a damned thing this game.

[AGar]

Why you should vote Leviathan
By: AGar

Don't you frowny-face me.

[AGar]

We're clearly talking about two different posts. When you learn to read mine and infer which I'm referring to (it's not hard), I'll continue this line of conversation. GL.

no, you completely missed my point. you posted this

You should make the most of the opportunities you are getting to post.

but by this post

I would have probably replaced out if this game was approaching 20 pages by now. This is the first I've been able to make a post not on my phone in this thread.

that was the first opportunity he really had to post > < so what you said doesn't work

Clearly I didn't give a shit about that post, I even specifically said his first post

at all

bothered me, the tone and all that accompanied by it. I also have since said I've been satisfied with what he has brought to the table. Jesus christ you're dense.

TL;DR - We have a pattern of refusal to establish anything close to concrete reads that he'll stand by since the beginning of the game, and no actual attempts to gather who he would like to see lynched. People are accusing others of active lurking, but this is literally the textbook definition of it. It's simply smoke in mirrors, making it look like he's doing something but rather doing not a damned thing this game.

[1]

the way this post is worded seems like using active lurking to redirect my attention off you, given I mentioned active lurking. = =

[2]

also, can you explain the last two links? as far as I can see he posted townreads in those posts, even if they weren't strong reads.

(Numbers mine)

[1] No, the use of active lurking is because that's what he's doing. He's not posting content, he's not doing anything. He's just posting fluff. That is the definition of active lurking. I couldn't give two fucks whether you mentioned it previously or before, or whether your attention is on me or on the moon.
[2] He said in each post "I don't think you're scum, but this could definitely be scummy." That's not a read. That's a big ol' stack of Belgian waffles that he could flip back to and say "Look! I knew something was scummy about him all along!" if wagons form.

[AGar]

Clearly I didn't give a shit about that post, I even specifically said his first post

at all

bothered me, the tone and all that accompanied by it. I also have since said I've been satisfied with what he has brought to the table. Jesus christ you're dense.

okay no
my point is you accused him with a false reason and are trying to push scum vs. town on what's probably a town vs. town. I never once said you found the post I quoted to be suspicious. By quoting the post I was directly pointing out where Maji said something that shows what you said is wrong, not saying you found it suspicious. from what you've posted, IMO you're either you're seeing and defending against something that's not there or you're just trying to cover up my true point. also, the last sentence is scummy as fuck, cause it seems like you want people to just disregard what I say entirely instead of looking at my arguments.

Let me make this clear:

IT APPEARS TO ME YOU HAVE NO FUCKING POINT.

A lesson in chronology:
Post 130 - Majiffy posts "have we left RVS yet? and by that I mean [...] votes and wagons" The content is not important beyond the initial scope of "have we left RVS yet?"
Post 199 - I replace in.
Post 213 - I am caught up at this point, I vote for Majiffy.
Post 251 - This is Majiffy's next post. He simply tells us he's going to watch Breaking Bad first.
Post 275 - Majiffy's post where he says what you keep bringing up.
Post 294 - My next post in the game. A reply to a question in 270 and

a fucking unvote

.

THIS IS WHY I AM CALLING YOU DENSE. I don't give two flying fucks about what he posted in 275 because my next post after he made that (read: THE NEXT TIME I READ THE THREAD) I had already changed my read on him. Clearly he had reasons not to post a lot, and clearly he responded in a manner which I found as acceptable.

Why in the name of christ is this so important to you? I DID NOT BASE MY CASE ON ANYTHING IN 275. I BASED MY VOTE ON WHAT I SAW IN 130. THERE HAD BEEN NOTHING POSTED FROM MAJIFFY BETWEEN 130 AND MY VOTE. HE ASKED IN ANOTHER POST WHY WE VOTED FOR HIM, AND I EXPLAINED. THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

Q E FUCKING D.

not only that but you still haven't explained the false logic on DV

Read this post. If you don't get it, you're not going to.

[1] No, the use of active lurking is because that's what he's doing. He's not posting content, he's not doing anything. He's just posting fluff. That is the definition of active lurking. I couldn't give two fucks whether you mentioned it previously or before, or whether your attention is on me or on the moon.
[2] He said in each post "I don't think you're scum, but this could definitely be scummy." That's not a read. That's a big ol' stack of Belgian waffles that he could flip back to and say "Look! I knew something was scummy about him all along!" if wagons form.

if he made a big thing about "hey I knew he'd flip scum/town" in the future, I agree it'd be suspicious. but srsly do you think this way about every single person who posts a weak read and says it might be incorrect?

Not every person, but when someone's ENTIRE POSTING HISTORY is "Well this person could be scum but I might be wrong" and not a single read is committed to ("I think this person is scum. Let's lynch them."), yes, I do think that way. Show me one post where Leviathan has actually given a concrete read and COMMITTED to it. ONE. Please, enlighten me. [PEdit: He has apparently voted Belisarius by the time I post this. Why? I have no clue, and I doubt there's a reason, but that's the first time in the entire game he's committed to anything.]

It's called scumhunting, bud, and you might want to learn how to do it.

[AGar]

Post 294 - My next post in the game.

A reply to a question in 270

and a fucking unvote.

yeah that was the exact post I was suspicious of. if you supposedly weren't suspecting him anymore at that point then why did you say it's suspicious how he apparently wasn't making the most of his opportunities to post?

I WAS ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED IN 270.
I WAS ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED IN 270.
I WAS ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED IN 270.
I WAS ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED IN 270.
I WAS ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED IN 270.
I WAS ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED IN 270.

ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER. CAN YOU READ IT?

Majiffy asked WHY PEOPLE WERE VOTING HIM IN POST 270. I RESPONDED TO THAT. I EVEN FUCKING QUOTED IT.

As for the DV shit, you've already dug into your confirmation bias of god only knows what so I'm not wasting my time. If you really think that my logic was "he's scum -> find a reason -> he's scum," there's literally no point in addressing me at all any further because I'm going to get banned/force replaced from this game if I have to beat my face against a keyboard one more time to explain simple logic to you like I did above.

@Agar

false, there are reasons. =P

1) a bad opening with a vote to no lynch. everyone knows those should never happen. so why even bother attempting?
2) He has 13 posts. Most people have more. I may tend to lean toward lurkers/minimal posters as scum, I feel the majority of others have done more individual scumhunting then Beli has. even though I can't really put myself in that list so its kind of hypocritical of me to say. =P
3) most of his posts are saying things, but giving no reasons. posts 114 and 222 specifically
4) some of his posts don't even say anything useful. posts 110, 114, 222, 227, 360, 381

1) This isn't a newbie game. That's not a tell. That's just an idiot.

Strike 1

2) I can say the exact same thing about you - and you acknowledge this - so why shouldn't we run you up? By your own logic, you're worthy of a vote.

Strike 2

3) I'd rather him be committing to something in the form of his reads and not give reasons then be wishy-washy when he talks about something.

Strike 3

4) 110 gives a vote and, with that essentially, a read. 114 gives a read. 222 gives a read. 227 is a vote. 360 is minimal but still content. 381 is the only one I'll give you.

Strike 4

Try again, scumbag.

[AGar]

I really don't have time for any posting today, I have too much to do. I'm leaving one tiny bit in here:

Pieguy - The part about quality posting and making the most of your opportunities

was part of my answer to Majiffy

. If you can't understand that, go pound salt.

[AGar]

Quotestriping, walls, etc inbound. I'll put a TL;DR at the end if I feel ambitious.

I really don't have time for any posting today, I have too much to do. I'm leaving one tiny bit in here:

Pieguy - The part about quality posting and making the most of your opportunities

was part of my answer to Majiffy

. If you can't understand that, go pound salt.

I fail to see how I'm supposed to tell based off the post alone how that's part of an answer to the question, but ok

if that's the case, I'm curious what your opinion on all the other lurkers are, cause that kind of logic can apply to them too. seems you just went straight for Majiffy when everyone else did, so I wanna know w]

Majiffy is a semi-known quantity to me. This game right now is a mixed bag of people I've played with before and people who I don't even know who the fuck they are. I'm holding certain players to higher standards (a la Majiffy) because, to an extent, I expect better out of them based off of past experiences. It's why I bitched at mastin because I couldn't read him (and still can't with this new minimalist posting style. Fuck you, man. ). Also, I was, uh, the second vote on Majiffy? So it's not really going straight for him when everyone else did. I've also been, y'know, harping on levi for pretty much doing the same thing. So that's a thing, too.

@Matias

Why don't I remember you're in this game repeatedly? What the shit man? Oh, RL shit. Well uh... anything reads-wise? Other than Sakura?

---

UNVOTE:
yeah, so i'm leaning town on Beli now. just really not seeing scum at this point anymore.

---

This Empking wagon is bad and you should feel bad for voting on it.

Majiffy

Help me get some steam behind this levi wagon? People love you, I'm just an asshole apparently.

[AGar]

This Empking wagon is bad and you should feel bad for voting on it.

Why?

Do we start with the wagon-leader declaring "Let's lynch the lurker-town to scare the lurker-scum" and then following up with "Yeah you're probably town?"

I get Majiffy was using it as a means to an end, but as soon as that little reveal came, this wagon should've fallen to pieces. Talk about holy opportunism Batman.

[AGar]

I meant the wagon, not the labeling. The wagon was the means.

Pretty sure he's called Empking town since.

[AGar]

I'm null on Emp.

The wagon isn't bad because the leader stopped supporting it.

The wagon is bad because the reasons were shit in the first place and people just blindly piled on because they're bad.

[AGar]

@Nat

I don't mind Empking though. Rather kill A-class lurkers like Kise or PV

VOTE: Empking

Syr/Nacho convince not to be on this shitwagon.

Please be to explaining this. TIA.

---

For me, I'm seeing an association between Beli and Emp and am still slightly suspicious of Majiffy, so when Majiffy voted Emp with a sentence I didn't quite understand I was happy to follow along.

I'm pretty happy with Nati for town so far but he flicked on and off of Emp earlier and I wanted Emp to post something more substantial so I have no problem with driving Emp up to L-1.

Nacho has been slightly avoidance-based in his posts and I'd like to see him respond to Pyro who I think are being proactive.

I do believe waynegg is being quite proactive but unfortunately I rankle at being attacked for no good reason, even if I believe it has a purpose.

Mastin has shut down (although he is v/la weekends according to his sig, still he claims he has content and all I see are naked votes and a slight understanding of the suspicions I'm pushing - I want him to be a focus to see how others react) and there are numerous lurkers who could be, and might very well be, scum. Folks like dolittle and the dudes Matias and Nati mentioned. Mac's there too - one post?

I basically have a rather large pool of people I am suspicious of - and a reasonable pool of people I would lynch. Empking is one of them.

Actually, I can get on that reasoning. I think driving people who we are suspicious of to L-1 is a pretty good idea. VOTE: Empking

And no one still believes that Levi is just trying to leave options open? This is now the second of his players that he's said "He might be scum, but maybe not," about and then proceeded to vote at convenience.

Seriously, kill it with fire.

The fact that pieguy's vote is still on Emp bothers me greatly, as well.

[AGar]

@Agar: explain this plz

Follow up has been better, but don't get indignant because

you

don't understand the wagon on you.

you flat-out admitted you were fine with his reasoning. but this indicates you're still suspicious of him a bit? conveniently this implies you're not fully reading him as town, but not suspicious enough to be scum either. It's the same kind of thing as what you were accusing Levi of doing, but just subtler. 0.0

No, I have a fairly solid townread on Majiffy. And I have since that post?

I mean, for fucks sake, if I had a scumread - even in the slightest - on Majiffy, don't you think I would've crucified him for trying to pressure cook someone he admitted is likely to be town at the start of said wagon?

Do you have an actual basis for asking this question, or you gonna hop off Majiffy's protective watch any time soon?

scumpaint me harder <3

Let's go back to the posts where we both reached the conclusion that there were serious misunderstandings going around, k? I really don't get why you keep bringing irrelevant posts up, unless you actually have nothing to contribute to the game.

The fact that pieguy's vote is still on Emp bothers me greatly, as well.

and exactly why does my vote matter than any of the other votes that are "still" on Empking?
keep in mind I haven't able to post since here, none of the other votes have moved since then, and you apparently didn't find it suspicious at this time. Not to mention no one had even mentioned me. I see no logical reason behind this statement at all so I'm just going to assume you're BS'ing and/or scumpainting me again

Because your voting pattern goes from logical to shit in a bout 2.6 microseconds, and then stays parked on a wagon that - again, I'm repeating this point for emphasis - the wagon-starter basically said "Yeah he's town." Your post afterwords gave some content but left the vote parked and made no mention of Empking whatsoever. Another post passes, you list Empking as a "scumread," but you've actually given no reasoning to back it up (unless not answering your questions makes people scum in your book, in which case I should be the towniest town who ever towned to you), came at me (listed as a scumread so that's logical) but then again left your vote parked on the wagon. If you're town, you're wasting your vote and doing the rest of us a huge disservice by parking it on a wagon you either don't believe in or don't care enough to see through to a lynch. You're not generating pressure, you're not gathering any information.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pieguyn

Here's the play motherfuckers. Get on it, or get to doing something productive.

[AGar]

/proddodge

[AGar]

V/LA until Tuesday.

Apologies. Didn't foresee this.

[AGar]

Catchup post of great justice

But since you're not actually saying anything that seems not fakable and you feel forced, it's especially problematic in trying to read you.

Tone's forced, content's not. Am not faking.

Do us all a favor and stop wasting what little bit of posting you're giving us on crap like this? Clearly no player is going to come out and say "I'm faking my content." So quit addressing posts like that and find a way to condense your actual reads into the conciseness you want, and make everyone happy.

Me and pieguy came from another site, it makes sense that I know how he plays, even if I only played with him a little on that other site.

lolNOPE. That's not how it works. Try again.

pieguy's been playing mafia for at least a year longer than I have just saying, I did come to MS before he did tho (we come from the same site)

This is irrelevant. Do you have useful input for us yet, or are you going to continue along this path?

I think town is

agar
sakura
belisarius
deasvail
kanye
kdub
majiffy
nati
kalimar
nachokoopa

null on
arc angel
dr dolittle
mac
empking
nacho
peregrine
mastin2
matias


scum
dopog

pls
>1 scum read
>who has 1 post
>who is replaced

But hey, what the fuck do I know, amirite?

Yeah. That's enough to convince me. "We" shoulda been "she".

VOTE: leviathan

No, you just can't read.

Seriously, I want to see Levi die a fiery death by rope with the fury of a thousand suns, but this was fucking crystal clear what he was saying...

So... you're not interacting with Empking the guy you'd prefer to lynch, meanwhile you're making wallpost arguments with me.

yet another blatant misrep. look at this post plz. here I'm asking him a question, which he outright NEVER ANSWERS. I can't continue my interaction with him till he answers this question, unless something else comes up, but he's only made one post after that. I'm trying to interact with him but he's not holding his half of the interaction.

WRONG.

You don't relent. You don't take your foot off the gas. If you had conviction in your "scumread" (read: If you were town and not making up a read), you'd be willing to do this. Since you're half-assing a fake read to try and push through the mislynch du jour, however, you're not actually pursuing your read on him.

... 150 posts ago.

Uh then you press him and keep on the pressure until he answers?

yeah, I just admitted I'm not good at keeping pressure on people when they ignore me =A=

You're not even fucking trying, scumbag.

Why the fuck is everyone just fucking claiming?

Clearly, pie is either SK or has experienced teammates calling some shots for him (absurd loose crumb, trying to get a vig CC with the fake-claim).

If I saw your crumb, why wouldn't I just kill you at night, knowing that a town-vig claim and/or lynch would put a shitload of heat on me?

hell if I know, only you know for sure what you're trying to do. you yourself said the crumb sucked so mb you wanted to get more info before knowing for sure? seriously, how the fuck am I supposed to know your exact thought process

I can't put into words how fucking bad this is. Seriously.

So you think I'm bright enough to pick up on your shitty crumb as scum but dumb enough to not have the foresight of "oh, wow, leading a lynch on a vig I could totally just nightkill might bring me a lot of heat"?

Mmkay. Glad we're straight on your story.

nice misrep again
all I can do is figure out what the most likely scenario is. currently, I see you not knowing whether I'm vig or not and trying to get a claim out of me to know for sure as a possibility. from a scum perspective, it could be worth it to get rid of a major threat

You clearly don't understand how this works. Literally the best play for scum if they do pick up that "breadcrumb" is disengage and kill you at night. They pick up no chance of eating your bullet, let you kill a townie (thus basically proxying as their extra shot that night) and then you're out of their hair.

I can't believe you're seriously pushing that scum picked up your crumb and decided to try and get you lynched anyway.

Yeah I really don't give a fuck what people say, pieguy is still the play.

[AGar]

Why the fuck is everyone just fucking claiming?

One could say the same about wanting to lynch pie.

Let's consider the facts:

- He claimed unprovoked about having a killing role. This is admittedly a pretty strong role. He wasn't in danger of being lynched - the wagons were at 4:4 between me and him at the time of claim, or something close to that.
- Since the claim, he's remained focused on Majiffy, trying to throw and throw shit at Majiffy in hopes that it will stick.
- His entire basis of attacking Majiffy has been "You knew I was a vig all along, so you wanted me to claim." Um, what?
- The crumb tells me one of four things: he's an SK that wanted to have an out early on; he's scum on a team that views him as a weakness and had him put a weak crumb in early to maybe draw a CC; he's claiming on his own and got dumb-shit lucky; or he's the worst mafia player in the history of the world. He's the anti-Andrius of claiming. The first letter of the first two lines and then the last letter of the last line? Just doesn't even seem remotely believable to me.

[AGar]

VOTE: pieguyn

[AGar]

1183 is really scummy.

I think it's best not to lynch either Kalimar or Pie today. Both their alignments will be more obvious later.

Vote: Majiffy

"Post by Player X is really scummy. Don't worry, I'm not going to elaborate at all.

vote: Player Y"

Get the fuck out.

I couldn't have put it any more beautifully.

I think it's scummy to assert strongly that a "town dayvig" is actually town when they've just

unilaterally

killed a strong town player who no-one was scumreading.

I have seen precisely zero lies, misreps, or insane theories from pie.

You missed the part where Jiff is a scumbag who picked up his shitty crumb early on today and still decided to try and wagon him to DOOOOOOOOOOM anyways, so he could confirm that he is, in fact, a vig, instead of, y'know, just killing him tonight.

Kalimar indicated to me in Death's Diner that he is a player with a solid understanding of the game. Let us consider the players online at the time of the shot.
-Me
-Sakura Hana
-waynegg

With a simple dayvig claim, I would have unvoted to dodge a quicklynch and Sakura likely would have followed suit. Wayne was not interested in a Kalimar lynch and likely would not vote. He was under no pressure to burn his shot like that. Instead, he initiated an unnecessary tempo shift by shooting--and not even at a good target, but a strong player who scum would definitely want dead if he was town. Mastin was under mild suspicion, but not enough to burn a dayvig shot on. For him to be town, he would have to be critically incompetent, and I am not relying on such thoughts.

Now who's not reading?

In 4+ years of playing, I have never once made a decision on the basis of who was online and who wasn't. I also don't know of anyone I've played with ever saying "Well I saw X online, so I didn't do this." I think that spans 70-80 games.

That's a terrible fucking reasoning for someone to be scum.

And then we have a ton of terrible theory talk.

Proper balancing involves swing you twit.

I don't actually think you can say that, jiffy.

I can.

Proper balancing involves swing, you twit.

And yes Nacho, we are beheading Majiffy.

If a faction can win or lose solely based on a single player's competency of a role mechanic, you're gonna have a bad time.

By that logic any game with a vig or cop is imbalanced? A mafia team can just lose if the vig hits scum with every shot.

If it's an unlimited shot vig, yeah. That's why you make it even/odd night, or x-shot.

Which only supports my argument that two vig types (with one unlimited) on the same alignment is unbalanced.

Cop was a ridiculous addition to your position. Incompetent cops get innos which don't hurt and competent cops are easily stopped by roles such as millers, godfathers, framers, etc.

Actually you just proved my point with your addition. If you design your setup around the fact two vigs are in the game(scum doc, bulletproof, roleblockers, etc) you can balance the setup and make it less swingy.

Millers and godfathers passively subvert a cop. They don't require the cop

being so covered in their own drool that they claim Day 1 unprovoked

to claim to be dealt with.

Vigs actually have to be actively subverted unless you put in an unlimited shot BP, which is just dumb because then you have dumb endgame scenarios.

Hope your vig isn't incompetent.

If you're balancing your games on the competency of your players, urdoingitrong.

BTW, for everyone saying Kalimar went under after, y'know, he confirmed his role - pieguy did the same thing of late. Only his claim is sketchy as fuck, and unconfirmed. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

[AGar]

Maybe add Agar for spice.

agar is potentially scum. he was biting at obv mislynch bait levi really hard and hes done a few other subtle things that had slightly irked me.

FTR, scumbag-Levi can still die a fiery death. He is prime with scummy goodness, and how you see him as mislynch bait is pretty fuckin' terrible.

Arcangel policy lynches are the best policy lynches.

Yes but D1 policy lynches are the worst kind of policy lynches (which is saying something, because most policy lynches are bad.)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=29888

See this game. AA9's actions here remind me of it. She was town. I'm not saying AA9 could be scum here, but her inactivity is at most null.

The fact that Nats was the mod for that game, and still voted AA9 without making any reference or doubt makes me uncomfortable.

I think I've already established that I'm policy lynching here.

I think I've already established that Nat cares way too much what he looks like in this game. And here he goes again.

That's actually... a polar opposite. Saying "I'm policy lynching" is about as close to giving no fucks as possible because you're pretty much openly acknowledging that "I have no true stance, I just don't like X for Y reason, so let's kill them."

I feel like I'm spending more effort telling people they're wrong than anything. What happened to the good ol' days where when someone repeatedly did something that was scummy in games, instead of copping it up to "meta" you lynched the fuck out of them until they played better?

btw im still waiting on majiffy or agar or someone to sell me on the pieguy scum how come no1s made ne effort to do that yet.

ISO me. It's roughly 65% of what I've talked about this game. But I also just quote striped the shit out of roughly 8 pages yesterday and literally no one acknowledged a thing I said either way. Kinda hard when no one reads my shit.

I'm Miriallia Haw, I'm neighbors with Leviathan.

I literally want to cry after all of these stupid fucking D1 claims FOR NO REASON. YOU ARE LITERALLY HANDING SCUM THIS GAME ON A SILVER PLATTER. YOU ARE GIVING THEM A ROADMAP. JESUS CHRIST, JUST WRAP UP A GARMIN WITH THE END DESTINATION SET TO "Scum Victory" AND FEDEX IT FIRST CLASS TO THEM.

I'm Miriallia Haw, I'm neighbors with Leviathan.

Not sure if that makes sense or not flavorwise, since i've never watched Gundam Seed, but I'll let people who know the flavor help me in the regards to whether this helps find out levi's alignment or not. Tho I don't think I need to explain I've been townreading him from the QT as I've hinted to that in many posts.

if she came out and claimed this then I confirm that we are neighbors as well.

• Svenskt has done literally not-a-damned thing this entire game. NOT. A. THING.
  
• Sakura's only relevant game post has been a D1 derp-Claim.
  
• I dislike the Matias slot, if for nothing else than his early posting was quite awful, and now the slot is just... not there is an understatement.
  
• pieguy is the vote
  
• If we PL day 1 WITH by my count
  6 claims
  and 1 dead body, I'm going to either cry, fly into a murderous rage, or dive into a pit of hypodermic needles. Seriously, this is just. so. god. damned. stupid. Seriously. DEAR GOD PEOPLE.

[AGar]

Well, hell, where to begin? I don't know diddly about Gundam, but I do have a weird name and stuff. Why not claim our names at least? Probably less than half of us know the names in the Gundam thingy.

Anyways, we got less than four days and we need 11 to break through. SO...

VOTE: ArcAngel9

Oh, and who's leading that wagon and why are people joining it?

What in the actual fuck.

I want to cry.

[AGar]

AGar, you should calm down a bit. The reason why some people are roleclaiming is because they alone know what roles and names pertain to this game.

No, I won't calm down when players are doing stupid shit that only helps the scum. There is zero town benefit to all of these claims. Zero.

[AGar]

AGar, I still need that flipping answer!

And I told you to quote it. Which really is convenient because....

And, here, let me repost it so I know you can find it.

I'm Miriallia Haw, I'm neighbors with Leviathan.

I literally want to cry after all of these stupid fucking D1 claims FOR NO REASON. YOU ARE LITERALLY HANDING SCUM THIS GAME ON A SILVER PLATTER. YOU ARE GIVING THEM A ROADMAP. JESUS CHRIST, JUST WRAP UP A GARMIN WITH THE END DESTINATION SET TO "Scum Victory" AND FEDEX IT FIRST CLASS TO THEM.

Is it wrong that I'm half considering voting some of that off now, since it don't think we'll get a good lynch anyhow) so that we at least take some of the derpiness out of the game?

Is this really a legitimate question you care about my answer to? I already said how I feel about D1 policy lynches, and this amounts to nothing more than a policy lynch. Shut up, return your vote to pie, and next time bother me with something that matters.

[AGar]

I'll post tomorrow when my mental capacities aren't "rage at this."

Because that's all I really want to do.

[AGar]

can you pls rage now agar? because im considering in the back of my mind trying 2 point the wagon @ u. i wanna know who u want lynched fast.

We're letting the god damned claimed SK live because "LOL HE'LL HELP TOWN."

YOU. DON'T. FUCKING. DO THAT.

YOU KILL IT.

WITH FIRE.

BECAUSE IT'S A KILL THAT IS GOING TO BE WRONG MORE THAN IT'S RIGHT AND SPEED UP THE GAME CLOCK.

the argument that "there will be more dead people faster" is dumb. people are gonna end up dead, whats important is the ratio of people that town decides to kill compared to the the people that scum decide to kill. assuming we kill the sk and there are no other killing roles in the game its a simple 1:1 ratio. we lynch they nk, repeat. with a leashed sk in the mix, it becomes 2:1 in favor of town. scum get less free nightkills before the game ends. now, the only argument against this is IF the town is stacked with some serious multishot power roles. while i think our town is likely power heavy, i do not think it is heavy in that manner such that we benefit from a longer game.

leaving pie around is to our benefit.

No it's not. We do benefit from a longer game. We appear to have a plethora of WEAK power roles, which get better as the game goes ON. Weak power roles mean jack shit early game, and we're seriously considering letting the only scum we managed to fucking hound down walk D1. So our day play, quite frankly, SUCKS.

If you aren't voting Pie, refute my arguments. Immediately.

Gladly.

1) It's a very risky maneuver to claim SK as scum, because if for some reason your lynchpool is full of scum, or for some reason your only target is scum, you'd be found out, and if you're still alive after several days you'll be found out too.

2) It's more likely for an SK to claim Vig than Scum to claim Vig, since then scum cannot explain the lack of a second kill, while an SK will be the source of a second kill.

3) SK is a Neutral/Third Party role... NOT scum, scum HAVE to get rid of him as much as we do since he cant joint, but he can help town until scum undoubtedly NKs him.

4) Leaving a leashed SK alive maximizes our chances at killing scum per day due to having 2 kills a day, while scum STILL can only kill once a day.

5) Eventually if he's not dead when reaching LyLo he has to be lynched before then.

1) No, he just doesn't shoot and claims blocked.
2) Yes, but it's not entirely unrealistic for scum to be coached into claiming Vig then SK.
3) No, not when town galavants around saying "We can just lynch him when we're done with him." If a scumbag is in his kill pool, the block him. If not, they let him kill away, aiding them, and then town lynches him when they need to.
4) Double lynches are not necessarily pro-town. Site stats show as a whole, MS is lynching less efficient than randomly. So that's two lynches in that same pool. Do the math. It's bad.
5) And then scum don't have to kill him and allow him to do their bidding when they see fit.

To a scum faction, any town is an optimal kill

are you fucking serious

Please tell me how killing town is suboptimal for scum.

Please.

A town-chained SK popping off townies is not a threat to a scum faction, it's a help.

it functions just like an extra lynch

Except scum can't do anything to stop a lynch.

My point is that had Pie not claimed, and shot who he thought was scum, then the game was exactly balanced for that possibility.
Now, we are directing Pie to shoot scummier players, which, by definition of not being included in the game design, gives the benefit to town.

You missed the part where only Jiffy and I were actually able to figure out that pie was scum, and he's not going to solely listen to the two players who have their heads out of their asses.

sorry for confusion, that was directed towards everyone who is lynching me now that their whole argument collapsed ~

But actually...

I wouldn't be posting so much if we would just lynch Pie like we should have done 40 fucking pages ago.


I wouldn't be posting so much if we would just lynch Pie like we should have done 40 fucking pages ago.

Fun way to get out of all responsibility for any lynches or votes. I'm legit calling for your vig now.

Wait... how is that getting out or responsibility for lynches or votes? At all.

The post you quoted is the truth - we'd have 1 scumbag down and about 50 less pages if we had just fucking lynched pieguy when Majiffy and I pointed out the very obvious scumbaggery.


The fact that Pie is alive is fucking. stupid.

Let's go back on the timeline, for fun's sake!

- Pie is a scumfuck.
- Majiffy and I call him on his scumfuckery
- He continues to be a scumfuck.
- He claims vig, with a weak as fuck crumb.
- Majiffy attacks the crumb.
- Pie attacks Majiffy because "Majiffy is scum who picked up on my crumb and then decided to try and lynch me anyways."
- Kanye goads Pie into claiming SK.
- Pie claims SK (cue Keanu Reeves)
- Town goes derp.


Let me tell you how this timeline ends: Town. Fucking. Loses.

We lynch the scumbag now. We celebrate, and we come back tomorrow and kill us some more scum. Is this fucking difficult to comprehend?

[AGar]

I shot AA9

the complete lack of other kills makes me think it's not multiball tho. which means I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the people going "hey this is multiball" were scum just trying to fuck with us

oh look, Majiffy was one of the people pushing multiball

vote: Majiffy

How about you shut up, shoot who we tell you and vote who we tell you and be thankful that we haven't lynched you yet.

Consider yourself to have a post restriction of "not posting words."

THANK YOU. OH MY GOD, A PRESUMED TOWNIE VOTES AGAINST THE SERIAL KILLER. WHAT A FUCKING MIRACLE HERE IN THIS OASIS OF HORRID PLAY.

You now have the same post restriction. Because you annoy me greatly.

I want the SK dead first. Then we grill Majiffy as to why he didn't activate his claimed PR ability. If his explanation ain't satisfactory, we have Pie gank him tonight after we vote off someone else. Then we lynch SK Day 3.

How does that sound?

Uh it sounds like there's some holes in your plan, sir.

People should stop voting Majiffy, mainly because... there's no case there. A tracker didn't get a hit when he followed him N1, and there was no kill N1. WHOOP DE FUCKING DO. Trackers get no-hits ALL THE TIME ON N1. It's a power role that gets stronger as there are fewer players. Yes, I get he's a 1-shot watcher. How about we let him explain what happened BEFORE we just kill him with fire?

Stop. Being. Stupid.

VOTE: Wake88

This is actually a good vote. You've been all over the map so fucking far apart from each position you take, it's terrifying.

[AGar]

I find it odd how suddenly AGar is in favor of the SK being alive, when he was going apeshit with me about it Day 1.

Because no one is going to lynch the motherfucker until he burns us, and it's unproductive to clutter another day up with arguing back and forth. The minds are set, and we lost no one that would be in the pro-leashing group, so their majority hasn't faltered. Ergo, pieguy will unfortunately live until hindsight kicks in.

Consider yourself to have a post restriction of "not posting words."

get more mad because your planned mislynch failed. I like ~[/quote]

Players like you are why good players on this site stop playing.

I'm not reading 2504, Wake can TL;DR that shit. 2505 is bad, but Talah has been in the derp bucket since I replaced in so that's a thing.

There's a wagon on pieguy right now. I approve of this product. Maybe, just maybe, we're coming to our senses.

VOTE: pieguyn

[AGar]

If I cannot get enough leverage to lynch the supposed Serial Killer, then I should be the one to control him. I already foresee select suspects disagreeing with it. Let me control him, and I will make sure we have more-than-made-up our minds to use him. We also need to decide when we should lynch him, too.

Wow. Ego, much?

F'real, yo.

Those who make excuses to not join my wagon against SK, AND wrinkle their noses at me shackling/controlling SK... are either Scum or horrid Town.

Sorry, but I'm not willingly handing the reigns of a killing role to ONE player in any game.

VOTE: natirasha

R u for rela?
(I am stupid wicked pissed that there is not a single screen cap of that moment online. Fuck you, internets.)

And what's the defense of Levi again?

His neighbor comes in the thread calling him scum and he says nothing?

That is in no way a town reaction.

what? =P I did say something I'm pretty sure.

but oh my bad. because I didn't deny it, It's my claiming to be scum. =/ now THAT is some of the worst logic ever. =P

even if I HAD defended myself, which I did, people would have said the exact same thing, because who is ACTUALLY going to believe me?

You wanna post something worthwhile today? Or are you gonna keep just being a scumfuck?

#2767 - Seriously Levi, you're a scumfuck.

If I left Svenst, I'd go for leviathan right now, Pie.

I leave pie, you leave Svenst, we both lynch Levi. Deal?

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Leviathan

Let me give a suggestion to how to deal with me though. I always look scummy in games.

What happened to the good ol' days where when someone repeatedly did something that was scummy in games, instead of copping it up to "meta" you lynched the fuck out of them until they played better?

You're doing absolutely fuckall outside of spouting "But I always look scummy!" You're not scumhunting, you're not pressing, you're just a fucking slot in this game that's acting like a scumbag would.

AGar, do you have a townread on Svenskt?

I have a "fucking just kill the motherfucker" read on him. He bounces between apathetic bullshit and "I AM DOING SO MUCH FOR TOWN HOW DO YOU NOT BOW DOWN TO ME." on a regular basis, and it irritates me and fucks up any chance of a read.

Ugh, this pieguy bullshit is really just draining. So much fucking bad on both sides of this argument - people threatening to replace out, people clearly misunderstanding what minimal benefit leashing the SK actually has. I have to work extra hours tonight, so I'll see if I give a fuck about this game when I come back tonight, or if it waits until tomorrow but the prognosis isn't good right now.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Leviathan
.

No, just no. You push yesterday on Pie and unvoted when it looked like it might happen. Now you do it again. Wtf? You always fence sit like this?

My vote was on Pie almost all day yesterday. Check the votecount before you try shit like that.

Today I didn't even intend to vote him from the get-go after it became clear there was a strong vocal opposition. It appeared that people were considering letting up, if for no other reason than to stop the threadshitting going on because he's alive. Then that stalled out, and I saw on opportunity on another scumread I have and cut a deal to get votes. Pie isn't going to get lynched today unless the most vocal opponents (Nati, Sakura, kanye and DV stand out most) relent and vote. Otherwise it's going to be the great fucking divide. The logic being used for leashing him sucks (if he was an actual threat to scum, they'd deal with it, don'tcha think - as long as he isn't going to wipe out their team, they'll leave him to us to lynch prior to LYLO; Town lynches less efficiently than randomly. This essentially works as a double lynch every day, we're basically doubling down on inefficiency.), but both sides are unwilling to even see the merits of either side.

Guess what, if we argue every day about lynching pie until 3 days before deadline then spiral into some hurried lynch, we're only helping the scum. We have two options here. Either we lynch pie, or we straight up stop talking about it for a few day phases until our numbers are thinned to a point where he needs to die. This middle ground bullshit where half the town fights for his lynch, and half the town fights to leash him only lets scum hide in the noise (on both fucking sides, anyone who thinks scum are only siding pro-lynch are fucking dolts) and watch the chaos unravel.

Levi is fucking scummy. He has been since D1, and his only defense for his play is "I'm always scummy teehee." He's a scumfuck, and he needs to be lynched like the scumfuck he is. He's been coasting on the mess that Pieguy's presence has created, and he's refusing to actually contribute. This isn't hard to follow.

Glad to see Wake has taken up the mantle of "Useless Bullshit Poster" so he doesn't have to put forth effort because he's pissy about not getting his way. Fucking wonderful.

Empking/AGar/Sven is my vig pool.

You cut me, Nacho.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Leviathan
.

No, just no. You push yesterday on Pie and unvoted when it looked like it might happen. Now you do it again. Wtf? You always fence sit like this?

My vote was on Pie almost all day yesterday. Check the votecount before you try shit like that.

Right, and then you got off during the waning moments leading up to his lynch to get on a bad wagon, kinda like you did again today. Actions speak louder than words, so forgive me if I don't trust your "intentions".

No. No I didn't. I wasn't on DoLittle. I voted Pieguy in Post #684. I re-voted him for emphasis or whatever the fuck I was doing in #1256. My vote didn't move for the rest of the day. Look. At. This. Post.

Wayne, you fucking level insults about the English language and intelligence at everyone else in this game, but you can't even read a god damned name on a vote count. You're a pathetic person who's bullying half this game and talking condescendingly to the rest under the veil of "being aggressive" and "caring about lynching scum," and it's play like this that is almost

entirely the reason I stopped playing.

Cut your shit. Check your facts. Post like a decent human being, and grow the hell up.

And I already said the rest of your points AGar. I'm not getting off him til he's dead. Your vote would make it need just one more to get rid of this scum/SK/distraction and help town be more cohesive and efficient if that's how you want to justify it. Personally, I think he's lying and is just scum. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Whatever your personal reason is, find it, shelter it, and get rid of this. The sooner the better. And if he does flip SK, great. Town die at half the rate.

Good for you, and thank you for exemplifying so perfectly why we're never going to get anywhere in this game!

[AGar]

Wayne

Last shot. Please show me where - on Day 1 - I left the pieguy wagon. Please. Link and quote the post. Protip: It didn't happen. Yes, I jumped off Day 2. Because it wasn't going to happen, I cut a deal to get a different scumread lynched and quite frankly, it's clogging the thread. Half of being a good town player is finding scum. The other half is getting those players lynched. I'm making sure I do some of the second part rather than parking my vote again on a wagon that I know for sure isn't going to hit a lynch. If you really think that I wouldn't hammer the piss out of pieguy the moment I saw L-1, you're dead wrong. But that other vote just isn't there.

pie/Pyro

Unless I'm missing something, Pie/Anyone is only really a useful connection to gather from if pie is groupscum. Otherwise his connections amount to null.

/inb4 AGar tells me diametrically opposed doesn't mean what I think it means

Let me google it first....

No, that's right. KKB and Majiffy are pretty fuckin' polar opposites.

AGar, it's quite likely that scum were unable to 'deal' with pie last night.

Do explain this please? There's only three plausible explanations I can think of for this. One of which is actually just shit PR play.

@Talah

You're a gunsmith, and that would've been a preeeeeetty cool role to keep under wraps, fyi.

[AGar]

AGar, if Natirasha agrees to my offer, would you hammer the SK?

Did you not read my post? Literally in the first paragraph:

If you really think that I wouldn't hammer the piss out of pieguy the moment I saw L-1, you're dead wrong.

While you're here.... walk me through your thought process in #3604. Because I really hate that post.

[AGar]

Meanwhile, Wake continues to offer scum motivation for the AA9 night kill, henceforth im going to call him a hypocrite because it's obvious it wasn't commited by scum, but by the SK, and it was within the pool, hence town motivated.

Not lynching pie ever after this, even if he kills all the town.

Serious question: Did Wake ever accuse Pie of being groupscum? I've always read it as "Pie is the SK, why aren't we lynching the SK?" But I'm also half-reading Wake after his huge ego outburst because it rubbed me an awful way.

@Wake

The whole post. Take me through it start to finish.

[AGar]

Phone post.
Leaving work now. Empking has an hour and a half to claim. The rest of the town has an hour and a half to make a serious objection. Otherwise I hammer him.

[AGar]

although the fact that empking wanted pieguy dead and opted to not jailkeep him (which likely would have made it much easier to push for his death today) is also odd.

Yeah this is a pretty big thing to me.

Emp, it's not that people wanted him alive AND jailkept. It's that you show favor for having him dead, yet you did nothing to stop his kill. I dunno, if you have claimed scum, that's a pretty good target to jailkeep.

A vanillaizer in a joat? Those are fucking powerful by themselves. Not a chance in hell that's plausible.

1-shot that only vanillaizes Mobile Suit powers? Yeah it is.

Not at all.

Even let's suppose I am wrong, why didn't Empking vanillize the sk?

SK kill is likely factional.

Derp more?

Needless to say, it's been asked more than once, and Empking has skirted it every time that he could have easily just JKed the SK.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Empking

[AGar]

Hi Agar.

Who would you vig in my spot or would you even shoot?

My heaviest scumreads lie in {pieguy, Levi, Sven}

I'd be shooting in there.

[AGar]

Wake. Shut up. There was no consensus, several people (myself included) refused to actually participate in your stupid little draft/pool/whatever you want to call it. Pie had no given target (which is a necessity if we're leashing an SK) and asked a player who he should shoot. I saw it. If you read you saw it. Nati responded. Again, I saw it. If you read, you again saw it. No one objected to that. Pie met the goal given to him.

No one appointed you town leader. And I really don't give five fucks if you think you came in here and "siezed the carp" because you came in and started shouting and all your rah rah bullshit. The truth is that 90% of this game has no fucking clue who you are. You don't command the presence that would personally let me just say "Yeah, I'll follow your lead." I doubt I'm alone.

Get off your high horse, realize that the SK isn't being lynched today (like he wasn't being lynched yesterday) and start actually contributing. Because right now you look like a scumbag who's trying to cover up any capability of scumhunting by just shouting about the SK every single post you make.

VOTE: Levi

Let's not keep just letting him coast, that'd be great.

[AGar]

I didn't know blue flavor text = guaranteed multiball.

I'm gonna start using aquamarine for my scumteams when I mod. Then I'm gonna use yellow one time.

I hope Wake's in every game that I do that in.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wake88

As much as I want Levi to die (and I

really really really

want Levi to die), Wake is practically begging for the noose around his neck. And who am I to tell him no?

[AGar]

Wayne, I'm really proud of you that you can copy the wiki.

But please read Pyrotechnics' posting.

[AGar]

Wayne...

Pyro claimed to have eaten a shot last night.

Let's break down the scenarios here:

- Pyro is telling the truth. In this scenario, Pyro either ate Titus' hypothetical shot (although they weren't in the vig pool from what I remember?) or a scum shot.
- Pyro is lying about eating a shot. In this scenario, Pyro is a scumbag. Pyro is also factional scum on a faction that didn't kill then, because otherwise they're gambitting really hard that no other roles whatsoever come in and say "I doc'd Pyro" or "I watched Pyro, no one visited." or any possible role fuckery.

Which is the more likely one?

Now, come help us lynch scumfuck Wake because it can open a whole lot of possibilities here I think.

[AGar]

Talah, you too. Come lynch Wake with us. It's a

really

good idea.

[AGar]

...

That's literally the crux of your case.

Wow.

[AGar]

I think pieguy is officially more pro-town than Wayne.

[AGar]

I think AGar's rep for being a good player rides on the coat tails of others

I have a rep for being a good player?


Well sheeeeeiiiiit.

[AGar]

Wayne... the JoaT had a vanillaizer and could get a recharge on his wasted shots.

Literally, he could vanilliaze multiple people in this game, while also having access to roleblocks and tracks.

That's not normal.

[AGar]

Ok. So originally I was for a Pie lynch. With his hit on Deasvail, who I completely thought was town, I really have to reevaluate my reads a bit. I'm not used to be that far off on someone. I am no longer in favor of a Pie Lynch for the current moment.

---

If anyone needs further motivation to lynch the shit out of Wake....
1) He called the majority of his wagon town.
2) It is page 177 and the only scumread he has is the claimed SK. Who was claimed before he got here.

F'reals.

why have we not lynched wake yet

Because a non cc'd Cop claimed an innocent on him. You're known scum. Here, let's make this easier for those who can't pick up the not so soft claim I made earlier

IM A FUCKING FACTION COP. I LOOKED AT KANYE N1. PYRO N2. PIE N3. THEYRE ALL FACTIONAL SCUM. NOW LYNCH PIE OR LYNCH ME TO PROVE MY RESULTS. I DONT CARE WHICH. IM STEPING UP BECAUSE SOMEBODY NEEDS TO IN ORDER TO TURN THIS GAME AROUND BECAUSE YOU GUYS KEEP DOING THE SAME DUMB THINGS DAY AFTER DAY AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. THATS FUCKING INSANITY. YOU GUYS. NOT ME.

I really don't believe you.

Even slightly.

---

Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne
Lynch Wake, Shoot Wayne

There is a god damned reason I am pushing this order, so help me god. (Not role related).

This is worse than when MoI fake claimed informed townie and listed three names that scum was in when he was a vanilla townie.

I was in this game, and for the record, multiple people called it on the carpet D1 that MoI was the type of player to hold grudges and wouldn't be beyond gambitting/fake claiming to see them policy lynched but NOOOOOOOO, no one listens to fucking AGar.

[AGar]

Of course it isn't role related.............I mean, you wouldn't be trying to avoid being investigated or anything............

Yes, I'm terrified of your fake investigations.

Oh noooooooooooo

[AGar]

If Wayne flips non-Scum, we'll know he was telling the truth, which means we'd then lynch all three of them in whatever order.

@AGar: can you elaborate why you'd rather lynch Wake and shoot wayne as opposed to the other way around?

Not at the moment.

[AGar]

I wasn't really involved in that game whatsoever.

yet you were more involved there than you were at the start of this game

beautifully illustrating my point

I know you're an anti-town faction so consistency isn't really your *thing* but...

You called me scum on D1 for bringing up a point about Majiffy's involvement.

And now you're calling Majiffy scum for that same pattern.



There is serious resistance to a Wake lynch right now, and I dislike this. You're telling me that in a hypothetical multiball setup, we're stalling 3 votes shy of a Wake lynch and he's TOWN?

Bullshit.

Majiffy, help me on this one, I swear to god I have good reason as to why we should lynch Wake first.

[AGar]

we're stalling 3 votes shy of a Wake lynch and he's TOWN

This is interesting...

There is serious resistance to a Wake lynch right now, and I dislike this. You're telling me that in a hypothetical multiball setup, we're stalling 3 votes shy of a Wake lynch and he's TOWN?

Grab the whole line, next time.

The full thought helps.

[AGar]

Because lynching Wake doesn't solve the major issue with this game, and he's claimed tracker which can track tonight.

Tracker isn't a strong enough role to justify keeping him around, especially when he's scum.

Otherwise, I've slept for all of 2 hours in a rest stop this morning in the past 48 hours or so, and I'm absolutely mentally drained. I have a 12+ hour shift tomorrow, too. So I'm going to V/LA until Sunday in the afternoon when I've recharged and gotten off of the caffeine drip I'm currently on.

In the meantime, if you lynch Wake, I won't be sad.

[AGar]

Might as well get it started back up, since it needs to be done.

Vote: Levi

Hello Peregrine I replaced: Kise/ Svenskt Stål

Wake: I started at your ISO, the post that I asked about was post 7 of yours. Easy to find and interesting to see because it is strange to do, if you know that there are this role in play. (And what the hell would it tell you that someone know, if there were that machanic in play, that doesn't tell you anythink about scum or town)
You have in the moment the largest waggon and my freaking job is it to find out if that waggon is on town or scum.
At the moment you are making that to personal, post like 5046 are completly ussless if you are town.
Worse you are arguing with SK or scum.
Cool down a bit.
Okay, about Levi, good wagon.
Well I tried to read his ISO, there are a lot of horrible posts.

Vote: Levi

These are not votes for Wake.

[AGar]

I actually don't really want to read the pages I missed.

If you've read one of the last 50 pages, you've read them all.

[AGar]

I'm gonna believe that you need to shut up and vote for Wake and then pray that you eat a bullet tonight.

[AGar]

These are not votes for Wake.

^ that

here's why we should lynch Wake before anything else
1. he's scum
2. he broke the no ad hominem rule for no reason
3. we can't get shit done because as long as he's alive he does nothing but goes "omg lynch the SK"
4. he claimed a non consecutive role as opposed to an x-shot one

1. Why is he scum?
2. Means zero, despite him beeing very emotianal. A Policitylynch is normally a bad idea for town.
3. That is freaking insane, one tunneling player doesn't hold the rest of the game hostage
4. And?

I am a bit unconfortable, that the SK is pressing the lynch.

AGar: How about an argument and not aggresion?

Wake has done nothing but tunnel hardcore on pieguy since D2 after coming in D1 and going "Leash the SK! Totally good idear guys!" He's gotten boorish, loud, spammed in bolded, oversized font, bullied people who refused to listen to him and ad hom'ed his way through this game. He has been a distraction, and he's refused to look past "WE NEED TO LYNCH PIE." until just recently when he realized he was going to get lynched. Since he did start actually looking at other players, he's been inconsistent, forming weak cases, and generally wrong about every player he analyzes.

He's scum who has been trying to create as much noise as possible - which has at times absolutely shut down this thread - and hide the fact that he can't genuinely scumhunt in it. He's harped on multiball with pie as factional scum without any evidence to it whatsoever beyond "DV flipped blue-scum" even though there's been enough proof to suggest that that could be a red herring.

Between him and Wayne, both have been absolutely destructive and intentionally detrimental to the progress and cohesion of the town as a scumhunting unit because they aren't getting their way, and honestly acting like children. They're pissy they can't get their easy lynch, so they cause confusion and noise, making it difficult for the rest of us to actually try and find other scum. Wake has used the tactics to all but stall the game and force all attention to be diverted onto him, pseudo-gladiating today's choices. Wayne has tried fake-claiming night actions in order to get people lynched (awfully familiar of MoI in Abarat: Days of Magic with his informed townie fabrication) and downright lying to distort people's positions.

Neither are playing with town motivation, and it's such blatant anti-town play that I can only see it coming from a scum player on either end. Neither has actually done anything beyond throw tantrums at this point. Both have been blatantly offensive for no other reason then they aren't getting there way. I realize this seems hypocritical being that I am (and have been for as long as forever) an abrasive and aggressive player. But that abrasion and aggression has netted me enough scum lynches in the past that it's a useful tool of rhetoric and I feel I know how to use it effectively.

Look at it this way - Waynegg and Wake have been acting scummier in this thread than the

claimed scum.

Who literally has no reason to act in a pro-town manner - he's going to die eventually, and he is well aware of it. Pie has done more scumhunting in the past two days then both of those two combined in this entire game.

Vote for Wake. Let's lynch him, diffuse some of the noise, and net a nice scumflip in the process.

[AGar]

he had lied before that about being a Town Vigilante.

....

....

I don't want to live on this world anymore.

I feel wake is town and Pie can still be of help.

If you want to save Wake, lynch Pie.

"Can be of help" is a load of bollocks. He's confirmed scum. If he's a SK, where are the scum NKs? You think they no-kill gambited 2 nights in a row, or a doc protected correctly 2 nights in a row?

Shooting DV was clearly a gambit, and it's a gambit that should fail miserably.

You missed the part where Pyro claimed to have eaten a shot last night.

---

Wake, please stop going on about lynching "confirmed scum vs the un-cc'd tracker."

1) Your role has symmetry with a scum flip, and is asymmetrical with all town PR claims we have.
2) Tracker is a frequent choice for a scum PR as it is a stronger scum role than a town role throughout the game.
3) We are very aware that pieguy is a claimed SK. We don't need 5 posts a page harping on it.

---

If Wayne is lynched, Wake needs to be shot. Or vice versa. Both are making this game insufferable and impossible to read without wanting to huck my laptop through the window. We now have a player who would rather lead their own lynch than play in this game because these two are using the worst logic possible to try and cry their way to a lynch they want. It's bordering on being downright unbearable.

if we want both wake and wayne gone i dont see why we would lynch wayne first when wake is more likely to be the scum pr of the two.

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou.

Dear Wayne,

If you keep assuming Pieguy is groupscum because of a lack of nightkills, you're assuming one scumgroup. But DeasVail got shot, and is scum.

Please tell me how that works with your theory, because you say Pyro is lying about biting a shot and don't believe anything could have possibly affected the kills Night 1.

Never have I seen such an anti-Town majority in all my years of playing. So stubborn, unreasonable, and perverse in regards to fulling Town's win condition. If any of you are Town I do plan to lord this game over you for games to come, for all to know. It's not a threat; I'm already planning to do so in addition to a thorough game review of how fucked up an anti-Town majority can be.

So, come on. Lynch yet another Townie over Scum. I've said nothing but the truth while here and have fought well to see pie lynched. If I were playing in a game with actual Townies, this garbage wouldn't be happening. You make an utter mockery of Mafia, and if it were possible I'd see each and every one of you banned from playing the game here for your lazy, incompetent, anti-Town play. Congrats, you suck at this game and I have nothing but contempt for you, because over the course of 100 pages my patience has been torn and frayed in trying to bore through these thick skulls why we don't negotiate with Scum.

Fuck you very much.

I strongly suspect you won't be welcome on many player lists, and you'll be WotC'd on many more if this is how you're claiming to act.

[AGar]

AGar, you've been an aggressive ass who puts personal needs over doing what's best for Town. Like Kanye. It's about time someone called you out for what you are. You didn't learn your lesson when Dr. D was lynched, and you diodn't learn your lesson when Empking was lynched, and I expect from you that you won't learn your lesson here, either.

For some reason, primarily anti-pie players have magically been disappearing. Now you think you'll get rid of me, and then Wayne. How exactly do those non-random outcomes

not

reek of pie being factional scum?

As I foresee it, you guys are gonna kill your Doctor. And your Cop. And other Townies. I guess I'm just another example of why people shouldn't underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Oh, and I'll be sure to review this game and tap into this completed game in the future to use against those exceptional idiots who are Town. If you're Scum against the anti-pie side, I commend you for your ability to sway them... or was there anything to sway in the first place?

Look Wake. Full stop. I know I'm aggressive. I addressed this earlier. But that's besides the point.

When have I put my personal needs above the best for the town? Right now, I see an SK who has done what he was told. He shot ArcAngel. Then he shot scum. How he got there right now doesn't concern me. We're not just going to leave him alive forever. There is a timeline that ends in his death. What does concern me is that we have a vocal minority actively posting in a manner in which other players are either discouraged from playing in the game or drowned out in noise. I was not on the DrD lynch. I already went through this with Wayne - my vote was parked on pieguy until the lynch, and I even voted pie D2 to help what I thought might be a successful wagon. Empking reeked of a scumclaim. Yes, we were wrong. Guess what - that happens. Guess what else - if we lynched Pie, we don't get that wonderful DV scumflip that's brimming with information that I would LOVE to take advantage of. But right now I see two players specifically so absolutely set in their ways for lynching Pie that they are going to make it impossible to function until either he is gone or they are. We know Pie's alignment. He's anti-town. If he's group scum? Congratulations, we have their kill absolutely locked down until we lynch him. So right now, I've come to grips with him living. He's actually done more than we as a whole have. The only scum we've found thus far IS Pie. Instead of looking beyond that and trying to find other players who are scum, we have people who just want to bash their heads against the wall.

Tell me, if Pie is group scum, who are some of his potential buddies. Pre-empting the {AGar, Kanye, Talah} grouping - please explain how you think all three of Pie-scum's theoretical buddies are fighting for his survival when the town controls their kill. If Pie is groupscum, I'd expect at least one buddy to be vehemently opposed to his survival just so they could free up their kill. But I'd also expect that if Pie is groupscum, his teammates would've avoided having him make the SK claim as it seriously hampers the entire factions ability to function for limited gain.

Why's Beli on pie again?

He buys Pie=Factionscum afair

[AGar]

He buys Pie=Factionscum afair

I'll thank you not to answer questions for me in the future.

As far as I read it, it wasn't specifically directed at you. Given this post, I drew a pretty fair conclusion.

I'm voting pie because
a)

he's fucking well claimed scum

b) I think Wake is town and pie is the only counterwagon that's had a chance to save Wake so far, and
c) third, a

distant

third, he could be factional scum instead of SK. That would just be the whipped cream on the breasts, though.

a) Yes we know this.
b) How do you explain wake's complete and utter refusal to scumhunt outside of "OMG PIE IS CLAIMED SCUM KILL HIM," especially in light of him actually being pro-leashing at points in Day 1. To recap: He had a time where his posting wasn't "OMG KILL PIE CLAIMED SCUM DIEDIEDIE." and he still managed to get absolutely zero reads out of that.
c) There's still almost no actual standing to this case. I'd take it a lot more seriously if there was actual basis to this claim, but mostly it just looks like fear-mongering.

This isn't baseball. Batting 0.500 doesn't make you an all-star.

Outside of Glork, I don't know a single person on this entire site who can claim that they are consistently better than finding scum than an all-star baseball player is at hitting a ball. Even Glork might have a difficult time with that, I don't know, but he's probably consistently the most accurate on site off the top of my head.

So, to keep this analogy up...

Strike 1

.

[AGar]

I'm working on my patience. It is not easy.

If you give me time, I can provide my Scumreads other than pie. However, I still want pie dead, and

am afraid my blunt reads will net retaliatory votes.

Today I've worked 17 hours. Tomorrow, 14. Day after, 16. Thank God for overtime.

You shouldn't fear that or care.

Tat's not necessarily true, because not only Scum have those sentiments.

[AGar]

Outside of Glork, I don't know a single person on this entire site who can claim that they are consistently better than finding scum than an all-star baseball player is at hitting a ball. Even Glork might have a difficult time with that, I don't know, but he's probably consistently the most accurate on site off the top of my head.

You realise you're arguing that hitting scum

once

qualifies pie as the best scumhunter in the game? What is this madness

No, but I'm arguing a .500 average is fucking incredible on this site.

What scum have you found? Majiffy can lay claim to finding Pie. I also claim to have a hand in that. Pie shot DV. Remember, he was told to shoot AA by the collective. Again - how many scum have you found?

[AGar]

No, but I'm arguing a .500 average is fucking incredible on this site.

What scum have you found? Majiffy can lay claim to finding Pie. I also claim to have a hand in that. Pie shot DV. Remember, he was told to shoot AA by the collective. Again - how many scum have you found?

Not when a known townie has been calling the other person scum that you "found" and you probably have an informative PR to confirm.

I called out Pie and DV. Pie didn't do shit here except

intentionally shoot outside of a given pool against direct orders

and

openly claim he hasn't been scumhunting.

These are both

confirmable

in the thread. We need to be lynching him.

Pie shot AA N1. That's who he was told to shoot.
What given pool did he have on N2? Wake's crock of shit was just that (let's not forget that there's a chance he's scum), and there was never any real support behind it. Pie came up with a pool for Titus to shoot in, with the idea being that Pie would shoot outside of that. The only "direct order" Pie received was "hit scum." No one credible actually stepped up and offered up a legitimate shot for Pie.

Yes, you called two. Congratulations, between you and myself we've managed to find two scum. The rest of this town has had significantly less success. Wake is an obstruction, and if you think his bullshit's going to stop just because we lynch Pie, it's not. His next act will be something screaming about whoever he decides to arbitrarily scumread and tunnel on next.

To be completely honest, you've fucking shut down since Pie's been leashed. If you're pissed, fine, I get it. You don't want to actively contribute to "lynching townies" and "letting scum live," and that's fucking grand. But don't come in here acting all fucking grand because we've managed to run up 1 scum to claiming and you called another player out who happened to be scum (read: he wasn't lynched, didn't claim under pressure, your effort isn't good enough). You want the rights to pontificate? Sack up and fucking scumhunt outside of Pie. The only thing remotely close to it I've seen is pointing out a potential Wake scum-slip. Guess what? There's a wagon at L-1 on Wake. Commit to another read, because we don't just fucking win the game when Pie dies. There's other scum to find.

The Pieguy=factionscum case has literally zero grounding to stand on. Fucking support the case. I see one very outside shot at it actually being credible, and the guy I think it hinges on is sitting at L-1. I told you there was a god damned reason to lynch Wake now, and that's it - if there's any credibility to be had at ALL to Pieguy=factionscum, it's fucking Wake being a different factional flip than DV. He's either scum with Pie who's very fucking paranoid that we're keeping his faction's kill hamstrung (they've been able to functionally kill ArcAngel and DV. Neither of these were optimal kills for a faction) or he's scum/Pie is SK and he's very fucking frustrated because they're terrified Pie is going to eradicate their faction and there's not much they can do about it. Clearly they either can't kill Pie or don't want to burn a shot on him.

Lynch Wake with me today. If he flips opposite faction scum from DV, I will fucking park my vote on Pie tomorrow and proxy you my vote the rest of this game. If he flips the same faction as DV, we now have two flips to go from on that faction and a pretty good idea of Pie's likelihood of being factional scum equaling zero. If he flips town... I fucking give up. Because he has not been playing the way any coherent town player should play ever. His ISO is the book on fucking how to claim scum in thread without saying the words "I'm scum."

[AGar]

AGar, you've been exceptionally aggressive and harsh towards me, so much so that it seems forced.

If I were Scum, I would stay in the background and let the drama unfold. No way would I risk my neck fighting for my cause. Please consider that.

You keep saying that I'm a bad player, but there is absolutely nothing besides your personal feelings that supports your statement. I'm sorry, but you're not making any sense, and I'll thank you to prove just how bad a player you think I am.

1) I don't let up on scum.
2) WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM THISISWHYMETAISSHIT WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM
3) It's my opinion. My opinion is based on my personal feelings. Deal with it.

[AGar]

@talah: I'm not scumreading you because of petulance, I'm scumreading you because you were playing like I did in Open 480. Sure, it didn't continue

after

I first told you what I found suspicious, but that in itself is WIFOM.

Applying your meta to a different player is bad jujubeans.

[AGar]

The only "direct order" Pie received was "hit scum." No one credible actually stepped up and offered up a legitimate shot for Pie.

Pray tell who "someone credible" would be.

There's a short list of who I wouldn't have accepted as credible in this game, and it includes Wake.

To be completely honest, you've fucking shut down since Pie's been leashed. If you're pissed, fine, I get it. ... You want the rights to pontificate? Sack up and fucking scumhunt outside of Pie. The only thing remotely close to it I've seen is pointing out a potential Wake scum-slip.

Then you aren't reading. I've already listed scum partners for Pie given a faction flip. And I have strong ideas of scum if he flips SK.

Just because you aren't reading doesn't mean I'm not doing.

You're giving us partners for a faction flip, and hoarding ideas for the more likely SK flip. This is not helping.

The Pieguy=factionscum case has literally zero grounding to stand on. Fucking support the case.

I have. You haven't been reading carefully.

I re-read your ISO because this game has been out of fucking control and too many pages... I don't see anything beyond you claiming him assuming multiball is a slip. That's not enough for me. Ok, there's also "He's been arguing from the perspective of factional scum and not self-aligned SK." Still not enough. I want a damned good reason as to why a faction would agree to hamstring their kill on suboptimal targets to save one fucking scumbag. Because that's just asinine to do, if you ask me. Bus the scumbag and move on with your kill unhampered.

If [Wake] flips town... I fucking give up.

Great attitude considering he's a counterwagon to a known scum who I have given strong arguments for being factional.

If I'm not buying Pie=factionscum (I outlined the ONE reason where Pie=factionscum is remotely possible and it involves a dead Wake, mind you, so still Wakescum), why would I buy Wake-town being a counterwagon to faction-Pie?

Please quote or link or at least give me #s for said "strong arguments."

You're a player I'd rather have active in this game right now Jiffy and helping to obliterate this shit, so please be to helping me help you. Because right now I see scumbag Wake who needs to die and SK pie who needs to eventually die but not faction pie.

[AGar]

If I gave you the benefit of the doubt and you started reading my ISO immediately after I posted (unlikely), that means you gave my ISO at most 25-30 minutes, allotting time for your responses. That is not

nearly

enough time for all the content I put in. Give it a 2 hour block of time and

really read

.

Take notes if you have to. Take breaks. Come back to it. Do whatever you have to do, but stop fucking asking me to repeat myself.

Yeah, not gonna happen. I have a busy enough schedule, I don't have the time to sit down and read for 2 hours to find one persons case scattered across an ISO. I work 6-7 days a week now, and I'm coordinating moving 900 miles or so away in the next few months plus other random events that pop up. I manage to keep up with the game, keep active. If you're not willing to come halfway and point out even post numbers so I know which posts to hone in on, then your case obviously isn't so important for me to take the time to read it.

My time's valuable too.

[AGar]

Vote: Levi

7 more days to make people see things my way.

It's gonna take more than voting and going "Oh golly gee, I have a week to make this happen," to actually make it happen.

You should know better, Peregrine.

Cue me prod dodging until tomorrow to gather up the steam to make a full on "balls-to-the-wall let's be done with this and lynch Wake dammit" post.

[AGar]

Ok I'm not reading 8 pages right now but something just. doesn't. add. up.

You can't tell me scum have whiffed three nights in a row.

I don't buy it.

Pie's kills have all been accounted for. Even in the HIGHLY unlikely event he's faction scum (his team would have now agreed to shooting both ArcAngel and Waynegg JUST to keep him alive - that's beyond sub-optimal), we know who he killed N1, N2 & N3.

That leaves a lot of questions about DV's faction (which is clearly a mafia faction, not a 3P) and a lack of kills all around.

[AGar]

We have proof that leashing isn't working.

He's shot who we told him to 2 nights, and the third there was no actual direction. How is leashing not working? More like, we REALLY suck at finding scum outside of Pie? FWIW, he shot DV without our direction.

We have accounted for all of the kills

without

scum any kills.

Pie shot DV. At the very least, it's SK+Scum.

Please stop trying to push this angle because it's really terrible and ignorant.

[AGar]

Pie shot DV. At the very least, it's SK+Scum

You actually think that a gambit is

less

likely than the scum kill being stopped/duplicated by town-motivated shooters

three fucking nights in a row?

What is this madness?

Uh I'm thinking that mods aren't going to let players shoot their own teammates?

[AGar]

We have proof that leashing isn't working.

He's shot who we told him to 2 nights, and the third there was no actual direction. How is leashing not working? More like, we REALLY suck at finding scum outside of Pie? FWIW, he shot DV without our direction.

I just want to reach through the interwebz and choke the everliving shit out of you every time you post.

Yes, I get it you called DV-scum. Congratu-fucking-lations.
My point is not who found scum, or whether Pie has been a detriment to us. It's that Beli is trying to paint Pie as if he's been going against what's been said. That hasn't happened. There's a very small minority that thinks he went rogue N2, but that's the only angle you can paint and if that's it, why doesn't he go rogue N1 or N3 when the kills offered were ArcAngel and Waynegg?

You want to argue he's detrimental because we're directing poor shots or what not, fine.
I strongly dislike Beli's attempt to skew things to be something they are very clearly not however.

[AGar]

Or we could lynch claimed scum that is most likely factional.

That could be a thing.

That we're all glossing over because half the playerlist is factional scum at this point.

So - to confirm this line of thought - you think Pyro is also 100% scum, correct? (This is re: the lined up role-claim/Rau Le Creuset and not the mental link thing).

VOTE: Pie

I'm ceding here. I'm worn down, I'm sick of seeing my strongest town read from D1 being driven insane, and I'm sick of reading the same argument 2000 times. I was hoping getting rid of Wake/Wayne would give us some kind of scum flip and allow for some actual attempts at content production, but instead Beli has ever so adamantly stepped into that spot (albeit 1000x less obnoxiously). We have a huge divide, we have no concentrated pushes elsewhere. We've gotten three extra lynches by way of Pie, and we've done absolutely fuck-all with them. It's just deflating at this point.

I really don't think Pie is faction scum even in the slightest. Wake was the only player I saw as a viable partner for it to begin with, and with his town flip, there's not a single person I can find that I would link up to him in the event of a factional flip (Pyro's behavior doesn't scream factional with Pie to me).

[AGar]

Agar, now that you're here, you should respond to that too.

On Majiffy's wagon analysis?

It's not wagon analysis. It's observations. Wagon analysis involves flipped players and previous days VCs/lynches.

There's nothing to comment on it. He thinks Pie=factional. A lot of his reads hinge on that it seems. Literally the only thing I think Majiffy is wrong on is Pie=factional, so I don't agree with his reads but I see the process and get that aspect. Once we have a Pie flip and can settle SK v. Factional (so so very sure it's gotta be the former), I'd be more apt to commenting on his particular reads.

Also, this game really hasn't been fun for about two day phases now. That + holidays/work has made for a severe lack of time invested in this game, and I'm sorry about that.

PEdit: Acknowledged, Majiffy. Let's see a flip before I really dig into trying to see those connections. As far as I'm concerned, my vote is parked today at this point.
PEdit2: And the harm is? If people really want to find his reads, he hasn't really pulled any punches with them, whether they're genuine or bullshit, you don't have to dig too hard to begin with.

[AGar]

Also,

V/LA until Sunday.

So much work between the three jobs the next few days. Fuck Thanksgiving, and fuck McDonald's for thinking it's cool to be open that entire day.

[AGar]

God dammit.

Real stuffs tomorrow. Sleep now.

[AGar]

I coulda sworn I made a post.

Gah. Sorry, Kdub.

[AGar]

VOTE: Titus

Now that we know that Pie-SK was truefax, Titus' claim plus the missing scumkills seem too fucking weird to me.

D1 he kills during the day, N1 only one kill comes through.
N2 Pie shoots DV, no scumkill goes through (Pyro claims to eat a shot N2 though), no claim from Titus
N3 Pie shoots Wayne, Titus claims to kill Talah (Pyro is also conveniently blocked this night)
N4 Majiffy is shot. Titus claims no shot.

There's an awkward symmetry there that I don't like. Throw in Titus' awful justification for the Talah shot and general behavior and I'm completely high on this lynch.

[AGar]

Quoting posts worked last night. Now it doesn't. Fuck me. Some quotes are here, some aren't, I'll make post # references.

What you think of Nacho, AGar?

I'm also down for a Titus lynch for what it's worth.

I always scumread Nacho, regardless of alignment. I don't know why, I've never figured it out. It just is. I'd have to give him a more thorough read through to give a concrete read as to whether this is just my usual par-for-the-course or if there's anything outrageously scummy about him. And right now I'd rather we kill Titus.

@Titus

I'm scumreading you stronger than I am Levi/Nacho (I'm scumreading Levi a lot and I'm forever scumreading Nacho). Yesterday there were bigger fish to fry. Talah was pretty much fucking as town as I could imagine, so your shot makes no sense unless you're scum. And then the shot makes a lot of sense. Gunsmith can be a hella-strong role that scumbags should worry about.

It is not just the fact he defended the SK, but how he did it and he fueled the division amongst the group. I am not asking for even evidence to prove Kanye town. His actions seemed solely to serve scum. Get the SK to out and then defend him effectively ups the kpn to 2 per night, before my vig shots. He wasn't leading the charge on leashing. I don't see any reason to keep Kayne. Yet, he will be hard to lynch. Perfect vig.

Kanye didn't "fuel the division." Check yoself please.

The division was fueled by the very vocal opposition to him being leashed. Had they not gone the Wake route of things, we might have been able to carry on with normal discourse, kept him around a bit longer AND found other scum.

But hey, Kanye was the main fueler of the division, amirite?

Titus 6149

This all would be well and good if Pie hadn't flipped SK. Your link is literally Kanye-scum wanted to help Pie-SK but KNEW? C'mon, this shit's weak.

@Nati 6150

The scumshot isn't limited.

@Titus 6158

MULTIPLE people were ok with lynching Pie when it became

necessary

, not popular. That's how the LYNCH GOT THROUGH.

You comment on the most inane things.

How about you talk about your suspects.

Well, Levi for one.

And Nacho, although I am being persuaded somewhat by Beli's Nacho-townread.

You think both wagons are scum.

Gotcha.

talah - Mayura Labatt, pilot of the M1 Astray, killed Night 3 by scum

Titus claimed this was his "vig kill."

So either vote Titus, or you're his scumbuddy?

[AGar]

Gunsmith doesn't suggest town vig, again.

^ This.

Titus, do you think a scum gunsmith is a useful role?
If yes, please point out what made you think Talah was scum. (No I'm not re-reading you. You're on the lynching block, so you can do the heavy lifting for me. My vote is in a place I like right now.)
If no, please point out what made you think Talah was lying.

[AGar]

Really, gunsmioth doesn't equally town vig? Do I seriously need to acquire brain implants for this game? If there was no vig, the mod would simply say cop

No, no he wouldn't. Site meta is pretty shitty towards cops because of their power levels.

Gunsmith is a less powerful informational role than a cop. For one, it doesn't give a guilty. It gives gun or no gun. If you don't know if there's a vig or not, it's not a confirmed guilty. Second, as far as I've seen them, gunsmiths get positive results on cops and negatives on doctors. Kdub's wording would imply that that probably wasn't the case here, but to blanket assume that every time there's a gunsmith, it's because there's a vig is naive.

I didn't believe Talah's claim of gunsmith when I shot her. She was a) reading the game entirely wrong compared to how I was reading it 2) saying things that were what I thought to be total fabrications to protect Wake, who was obvious scum. I saw an obvious group of people lying to protect Wake 88. Waynegg's fake cop claim combined with Stahl's bad cop claim combined with Talah not calling them out on their shit made me think there is no plausible way Talah was a cop. Three cops combined with Wake and Majiffy? That would be immensely overpowered. Yet, Talah says nothing. I highlight this and I am brushed aside like garbage. So I shot her. Period. I made it real clear I was doing it. The result, you bitch saying it was a horrible shot after Talah is dead. So screw you.

It's FIELD DAY WOOHOO!

First - justifying someone's death with "They were reading the game wrong" is complete and utter bullshit, ESPECIALLY when you yourself have found all of zero scum. In fact, you've shot a town player multiple people thought was town AND THEN tried to get things lined up to shoot ANOTHER strong townread of multiple players. Second, Talah wasn't really trying too strongly or contriving reasons to protect Wake. Wayne and Stahl were both trying gambitty bullshit and NO ONE tried to lynch them at those points because we knew they were just pulling shit out of their ass. Finally, you shot a player that was one of few WHO COULD BE A DIRECT THREAT to the scumteam. I don't care if you posted it thirty times. It was a shitty shot, and quite frankly, had we not had the lynch-Pie-don't-lynch-Pie shit cluttering the thread, you probably would've caught a lot more heat right after the shot.

[AGar]

PV/Levi/Titus all just.. Holy fuck the defending and the reaching and the grasping.

Nati, Kanye... they can't be all scum together can they? Like... that would be....

My brain.

TD needs to come in and claim doc or not doc right now. That's step 1.

[AGar]

Town are known to be wrong. Levi isn't exactly someone I'd listen to for ANYTHING if he's town (which i don't think he is) and PV isn't Glork.

If I had to choose one buddying scum it'd be Levi. I think PV is just blatantly wrong, but some of his logic is very flawed I think, and that's at least concerning.

[AGar]

I think PV is just blatantly wrong, but some of his logic is very flawed I think

Pointing out those logic flaws would actually help correct them.

You mean beyond quoting your entire posts?

Your logic:

a) Concludes Titus knew Stal was a doc (which he wasn't).
b) That scum would find a doc in a slot that was pretty possible lynchbait or a possible target for Pie's shot as a valuable target.
c) That because one player wasn't able to dictate a scumkill, that confirms him as town.

Alright, time to throw a spanner in the works of this wagon.
I can pretty much prove I'm town. I'm an x-shot DayVig.

And yet Titus is claiming to be an x-shot ANYvig.

So there's that too.

---

I believe Faraday has done a scum dayvig before - I wasn't in the game, I just remember several players referencing it in a later game, so I wouldn't really count that as any concrete evidence.

Again, I present the parallels in Titus' "vig shots" and what we've had for deaths/what we've gotten via claims.

D1/N1: Kalimar shoots mastin2 during the day. Pie shoots ArcAngel during the night. Pyro does not die, nor does her or Pie's BP get used. 2 shots are accounted for total.
N2: Pie shoots DeasVail. Titus doesn't shoot. Pyro doesn't die. Pyro uses 1 shot of BP. Pie does not use any. 2 shots are accounted for total.
N3: Pie shoots waynegg. Titus shoots Talah. Pyro doesn't die, but either is blocked or Titus is a strongman. Pyro uses no BP. Pie uses no BP. 2 shots are accounted for total.
N4: Pie is dead. Scum shoots Majiffy. Pyro doesn't die. Pyro uses no BP. 1 shot is accounted for total.

Funny - both of Titus's "shots" line up perfectly with nights we have no explanation for a lack of a scumkill.

[AGar]

agar, doesn't post 6362 prove titus has a daykill?

Scum dayvig is not impossible. It's been done before.

He has claimed "anytime vig with 1 dayshot" in this thread.

---

More probable reasons Majiffy was killed than "He didn't want to leash the SK":

1) He was a watcher.
2) He wasn't a player that was going to get lynched.
3) He was about to start giving a fuck after Pie got lynched and said he had ideas for DV buddies in the event of either Pie possibility.
4) He was a threat to scum.

Literally, why would scum give a fuck about someone opposing leashing the SK? We already established that there were probably scum on either side of that argument, so your line of thinking that "Scum want to kill everyone who opposed leashing the SK" is patently terrible. Scum want to kill strong players that threaten them.

Kanye-scum would have been foolish to goad Pie into claiming SK after the vig claim. They didn't need that info - they just needed to know there was a killer. Scum would have happily coasted along with knowing where the killing power was and dealing with it however they felt the need to.

Out of Levi/Nacho, I feel more comfortable with Levi (I don't remember if I've vocalized this today). Basically Levi's been on the map since Day 1 but there's always been someone better to lynch, at least in part because half the game has chalked his activity so far up to "meta" and that's the most fucking aggravating reason to say "Nope, not scum," about someone.

But I want Titus to die a fiery fucking death because that scumbag needs to rot.

[AGar]

Agar, Kanyescum would have confirmed Pie was SK rather than vig to determine if Pie needed to be blocked.

Get your tunnel blinders off. Nati, unless she is scim, is a much bigger threat than Mr. Multiball. Majiffy's death suggests I am town. Scum don't shoot their allies when one is under major pressure.

Why would scum me claim the Talah shot? Thete's literally no scum motivation in doing so.

Majiffy is a much better player than you're giving him credit for. Nati vs. Majiffy is probably a wash. Watcher is a strong role. I've never actually played with a roleblock-stopper, but I would imagine it's one of those more "pain in the ass, we need to eventually kill him" type deals in a scum-situation. There's also the fact that Pyro was openly townreading the shit out of Nati for as long as I can remember and so that was the most obvious choice for her protection, which with Nati's "I'm not gonna let Pyro get blocked," makes for a pretty damned difficult situation to get around. And you were literally under no pressure until I voted and a wagon gained a bit of traction. Even now, there's not really pressure on you so calm the fuck down with that "ERMEHGERD PRESSUREZ ON ME, WHY WOULD I PUT MYSELF HERE." Quit molding what happens in the game to your convenience.

Scum you claims the Talah shot because you need to keep your cutesy little "anytime vig" gambit running and need to claim a kill at some point.

[AGar]

Did you READ Nati's claim? Or are you just playing stupid right now in hopes that it's going to save your scumbag ass?

[AGar]

Nati is a roleblock preventer. So what? NAR has Nati dead.

Scum target Nati.
Scum block Pyro.
Pyro protects Nati.
Nati protects Pyro.

Step 1 resolve actions that are not impacted by others.

Here, that's kill on Nati. Nati's dead. Then Pyro tries to protect but can't because he's blocked.

I know NAR. Kills don't resolve first in NAR.

That game was deliberately ridiculous roles. Everyone was town power. Dayvig was required for balance.

Here we have enough suitless people to where giving scum a dayvig is damn near gamebreaking.


The mod hasn't put deliberately ridiculous roles in this, and I doubt he's going for gamebreaking.

Vanilla-less isn't "ridiculous roles." Nothing in that setup was way out of the ordinary.

We had a JOAT that refreshed shots and had a vanilla-izer shot.

You're claiming an "anytime vig," which is - imo - more ridiculous of a stretch than a 1-shot dayvig.

Also, your explanations are getting to the point of ridiculousness. Occam's razor. Nothing you provide is simple and straightforward. Everything you pull out to justify the game's happenings or what you've done require ridiculously unique sets of coincidental circumstances. I'm not buying that SO many coincidences have occurred.

[AGar]

Scum motivation for pointing out thinking a doc exists and then not shooting it.

It was a pointless speculations.

The slot has had 4 players, there has never been more than 2 votes on him at a time. Why would you think he's lynchbait?

Were we reading the same player in Stal?

Who is this referring to?

Titus. Maybe his scumbuddies didn't buy the doc bit. Who knows? Saying "He guessed this and then that person's still alive, ergo he can't really be scum." is stupid. Scum could have a million reasons as to why they don't kill him.

Also, why are you not voting Levi? (373)

Titus is scum. Levi is scummy. Difference.

TD, I look scummy as town, especially when I think I am conftown. Look at Death's Diner. It took me attaching a bomb to your back and I still was pushed as scum for awhile. I am lynchbait but I work on it.

Majiffy would be yelling I am town. Who dies, Majiffy... Big shock.

Kanye should be dead if I was scum. There is no simple narrative for me being scum. None.

MORE WIFOM THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR!

Titus wagon is scum driven, without a doubt.

Do go on.

i prefer nacho as scum out of either me or titus.

What is this I don't even.

[AGar]

I don't really have a feeling that kanye is scum. He may be, but I would only support that lynch if we got to end game and still had many scum around. He's good, so he could be, but i currently feel he is town.

nati I could see as scum from his push on me, regardless if i'm playing shittily or not, his push does not seem very pro town.

Beli I simply highly doubt is scum

Nacho I feel the best chance of the moment of being scum

and Titus is definitely not scum.

neither is ETL because of sakura.

There are two scum left guys.

1 is dead. And an SK.

In a 21 player game.

17:3:1.

Totes-magotes legit.

[AGar]

You have village idiot who tunnels me and has no other suspects/reads of note (Kanye), sudden revival from lurker status (Agar), opportunistic wagon jumper who may still be town (Nati).

Oh lord this is priceless, scum.

[AGar]

Obviously scumfuck bussing Levi waiting for my wagon to have enough steam to get a mislynch instead (Nachokoopa)

Guys! Both initial wagons today are on scum! HIP HIP. HOORAY!

[AGar]

Agar, what makes you think 2 scum left? Numbers with an SK suggests 4 starting scum, not three.

Nati, I don't shoot lynchbait! [broken record plays]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh DERP

[AGar]

btw agar thinking theres the mafia team is only 3 people is real fuckin naive man.

Read 6494 again, tell me if you think I was serious.

I mean, I said "totes magotes."

6494 was me pointing out that Levi literally has two people pegged as scum and everyone else cleared somehow in a sarcastic and deriding manner.
6517 was me making fun of the stupidity of Titus for thinking I seriously believed there were two scum left.

[AGar]

My first guess would be Nati.

Also, yeah, just kill dayvigs with fire sounds smart.

[AGar]

VOTE: etl loving it.

Yeah you wanna put some legs under this vote so it can stand?

Because right now it looks really shitty. Your case has been basically Levi is townish and Levi and ETL are neighbors so ETL is scum from what I've inferred.

You need more than that on Day 6.

[AGar]

levi is probably town.

kanye, don't go breakin' my heart.

[AGar]

I want everyone to ask yourself this question, why did leviathan die, and get back to me.

No, let's not start down that one.

[AGar]

Agar/PV.... pooooooke!

Dude, it hasn't even been 24 hours. It's the holidays, and I've been working 75-80 hours a week over the past four weeks.

Chill the fuck out.

[AGar]

Also, I'm fine with a mass-claim.

[AGar]

The question I already answered by refusal?

Yeah, I'm not going to speculate why Levi's dead. There's an endless possibility of reasons. Who knows, who cares.

[AGar]

AGar is kinda a lurker at heart, but his posting when he's been around is really really solid.

Ouch. </3. There was a time I was one of those slightly-overactive posters.

But really, sorry I've been so shaky this game. Gearing up for a biggish move and working a lot to make some money for it. Definitely thought I'd be ok to handle this load. Probably was wrong.

I'm Nicol Amalfi. I pilot the Blitz Gundam. I am a non-consecutive commuter. (Mirage Colloid is my ability name.

I don't like TD's pushes today, and I didn't like the slot before (Stal was repeatedly back and forth on the Pie lynch to however it suited him/where he'd get the most buddies, Kise was nonexistent). I don't like ETL's posting since ever. That's not news, I wasn't a Sakura fan either. I want to lynch TD more than I want to lynch ETL though - TD's questioning at the beginning begged of scum trying to trap people into red herrings for mislynches.

Nati & Kanye are my only two I refuse to lynch. Beli's fringe on that list, as well. His ability benefits scum or town whoever has it, but as scum it's much more of a handicap to come out and suggest what he has - eventually all mobile suit pilots except for him are gonna be dead and he's fucked.

PV could die. I need to make time for a re-read on him as I've mostly glazed over his posts because they're usually huge and I think wrong.

[AGar]

Oh, I've commuted every odd night (1,3,5). Wasn't going to 1 until Pie claimed SK and I felt he was a liability to shoot me. Then kept using it as much as available to work as a pseudo-protective role.

[AGar]

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

Thanks for the VC analysis, Nati. I'm not one to dig through but that's some nice shit.

TD's behavior just continues to spiral southward.

[AGar]

Sooooo, your case is based, not on anything I have done said or been anywhere near, but on what this slot has done in the past before i got here.

Yeah ok, you have fun with that.

Also I'd like to point out your theory requires me to have not only double early bussed already but be going for a third one right now.

E-tu Agar?

My case is predicated on your predecessors + your lack of anything remotely resembling town play thus far.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you... Mafia on Holy Orders, the game in which I bussed two of my three partners hyperaggressively to the point of being practically confirmed-town because

AGar is more Town now (and was pretty Town when last we saw him; he'd have to have a fetish for premature bussing to be scum at this point)

[AGar]

@Nati

Kanye's claim adds up with his play thus far. He hasn't really shied away from anything, and has made himself a fairly vocal presence in his own little Kanye way. Knowing that it's only kills that trigger the PGO-esque passive makes his play even more smart wrt to his role, and his prior argument about the false positives with Titus make a lot of sense given his role.

[AGar]

3/3 or 3/4>2/3? Whatever.

Walk into game, nail three scum, get lynched. I remember why I quit this stupid game.

Fuck you guys, I hope beli wins. I'll predict the rest of this game for you, just for kicks.

Dumbass Nati and agar have already voted me, etl and kanye seem to think I'm scum, one of them will vote me, beli or pv will hammer, then nati or kanye will die in the night. No one will listen to my final words of "vote beli you dumbfucks" you'll mislynch again, and then beli and PV will win.

Might be beli and agar or beli and nati though, agars vote on me is for shit and nati has no real case.

Pretty damned sure there are 2 scum left at this point though.

Good Luck TD-Out.

You "nailed" two scum. DV was dead before you even started playing, and Pie was outted on Day 1. But honestly no one was voting Titus because of anything you said. There was support before you even joined in the game.

You've actually done nothing noteworthy this game, and neither have your predecessors. Svengst decided he wanted to be part of the Wayne/Wake spamfest, and Kise was literally nonexistent. Titus tried to hand your slot a doc fake-claim, which wasn't taken but still is a scummy as shit connection. Empking, Pyro and yourself were DV's three consistent scumreads, and two of them flipped town. Makes me think you were the sacrificial lamb he saw as bussing material due to the prior play of your slot.

[AGar]

Agreement and no votes.



You guuuuuys.

[AGar]

Great, glad you all admit ETL is town, now catchup with the theory. Given that ETl is town, levi was shot to attempt an etl lynch. No vote beli with me.

This theory would be bulletproof if, y'know, Beli had voted ETL. Or even made a push on him at all today.

Keep grasping for those straws.

[AGar]

Nat is the lynch?

Uh no?

I don't wanna hear about Shaheed's law ever again.

Kanye, Nat, PV, TD, Agar, would you guys mind answering the same question?

No.

I mean, if you read the game, my answers are there, but I'm not just handing them to you.

Work for it.

[AGar]

Agar, either you want me to be part of the game now and contribute, or you don't. I'm not going to go digging in this game for your answers unless they are on the last 3 pages, in which case, you can quote them and show me how stupid I am.

Otherwise, stop being difficult.

No. Literally, you could ISO me, take no more than 10 minutes to read it, and find out where I stand on players. I don't expect you to read the entire game. I do expect you to do some of your own heavy lifting. I know how replacing into progressed games can go, I just did it in AuOIAF when it was close to 100. No one expects you to read everything but you should hit on the important happenings.

Seriously, how can you form actual reads on anyone 7 phases into a game when you haven't read the first 6? I can't even think of a good analogy for how BAD that is. Going into a job interview without actually knowing what company you're interviewing with or what position you applied for? That's as close as I can get. It's. Fucking. Terrible.

All you've done this game since replacing in is not read and... not read. You ask stupid questions that could be answered by taking 10 minutes to click the links in the OP to the happenings of the game. If you had maybe invested an extra hour and a half into the game (in chunks), you'd be fine. Instead you take the stubborn route of doing jack-fuckall and expect us to be all peachy when you want shit done for you. It's Day 7. No one should have to ask for non-lynch targets from everyone. They're pretty apparent if you're reading along.

The only thing saving you in this game is more than one person has vouched that Sakura's replace-out was pretty fucking townmeta, and you've taken that as a hall pass to do jack shit.

This "Woe is me, I don't have time to do this even though I made a commitment!" attitude is fucking spreading rampantly and should be lynch-on-sight policy for all I care, because it's fucking maddening and detrimental to the town as a whole to have to carry dead weight through a game. If you have to ask who red kills belong to and who blue kills belong to, you're not even close enough to being able to form an opinion on a single player who's alive.

/rant

[AGar]

I don't really have much else to say, this is kind of a prod doge post, I'm gonna sit over here on beli and wait for you all to see the light.

The light of lynching you has been seen.

[AGar]

I'm really just unhappy TD is still alive. I'm looking at everything else sporadically, as much as I can between work.

[AGar]

Nati can't be Clotho, he has no mobile suit.

look dude i dont even know what that means. do you have some reason to believe clotho is a character that exists in this game? why does he have a powersuit? why does powersuit=scum? too many variables that i dont understand.

Ok, c'mon. He explained this like 3 pages ago.

[AGar]

kanyeknowsbest - has a suit (investigation result)
Belisarius - does not have a suit
Yraelz AGar - has a suit (investigation result)
PeregrineV - has a suit (investigation result)
Kise Svenskt Stål StefanB TiphaineDeath - unknown (don't remember a claim, did not scan)
Sakura Hana EspeciallyTheLies - Miraillia Haw, has no suit (per claim, did not scan)
Natirasha - Lacus Clyne, has no suit (claim + investigation result confirms it)

Those who claim no suit are also claiming characters who did not pilot mobile suits in the series.

I believe ETL.

Based on the flips so far, it would be insane to believe Clotho is not in the game, so I'm not interested in lynching any non-pilots until Clotho is dead. The 3 flipped scum + Clotho + Rau = 5 anti-town players out of 21 initially, so I could believe that Clotho's flying solo right now.

I'll scan TD tonight; if I'm shot, it'll confirm all of my investigation results, so you'll be pretty well informed tomorrow. If I'm not, well, at least I'll know whether TD could be Clotho, but the rest of you have to consider the possibility I might be scum taking you for a ride.

the idea that we should start lynching from a specific pool of players because maybe one of them should be scum because a character from the theme who is in no way guaranteed to be in the game but would make sense as scum has not flipped yet is all sorts of ????? we are ostensibly at 5:2 right now so even if we were so inclined to do that nonsense were not in a position to do so. this is the time for lynching solid A+ scumreads, not flavor goose chases.

There are three Biological CPUs. The other two have flipped.

Clotho is in the game. Count on it.

It's more than a "flavour goose chase." The Radar ability was put in the game for a reason. Who does and who does not have a mobile suit is relevant to scumhunting. Sure, it requires some flavour knowledge to use it, but I've got that and there is a Gundam wiki. Look up the names of our flipped scum. You'll see them inextricably linked to Clotho.

I want to move belisarius to my town reads section but that hammer is a tad suspicious.

No complaints there, I wouldn't have believed someone like me could make that kind of mistake if it hadn't just happened, either.

In case I'm killed tonight, my investigation from last night revealed that PV pilots a mobile suit.

Since Nacho is scum and not a mobile suit pilot, that all but clears Levi as far as I'm concerned.

There's at least one more scum mobile suit pilot: Clotho.

[AGar]

Agar I'm not a fucking idiot, thanks.

Show me where Clotho is guaranteed.

Sure fooled me.

[AGar]

By my count, yes.

[AGar]

We've full-claimed.

PV, what happened last night for you?
Beli, who did you scan last night?

I commuted like I planned to. No one objected, so I figured it was the best course of action. WCS type deal.

[AGar]

I'm also slightly intoxicated so if you said what you were gonna do yesterday... forgive me.

[AGar]

hey agar how come you didnt say anything when people were speculating about nonconsecutive roles being scum roles?

I'm... not following why I should have? I put no stock into symmetry like that. Similar to the red/blue scum argument that came up, I respect Kdub as a proficient moderator to see that as a gamebreaking possibility.

[AGar]

what are your general thoughts at this point agar? whios scum?

General thoughts are the lynching Beli would be stupid. PV and ETL look best bets for scum. Leaning heavier on ETL than PV, but Beli's info seems to clear ETL almost guaranteed. My read on you hasn't changed pretty much since D1. We've disagreed, but this is clearly a towngame.

More specific thoughts are ETL appeared to flip-flop on the Pie lynch multiple times throughout her entrance up and to his lynch. The disengagement and then reactions when called for not reading are very lackluster to me, like scum faking incredulity that they would be called out for not reading the thread, how dare we.

PV has had very odd theories that don't quite sit right with me, from what I'm recalling throughout the game (I haven't had the chance I wanted to re-read yet). His "scum would want me in LYLO because I make bad choices" in LYLO stuck out to me as very off-kilter. His claim of not getting anything last night seemed somewhat convenient, especially choosing Titus, when Wake's track would be much more valuable to town at this point, being how small we are - he has a 1in3 shot of directly finding scum and anyone else is possibly cleared - and he's experienced enough to know that.

@AGar: Assume the opposite, and that I'm scum. Who is my scumbuddy?

If you're scum and we're looking for a scumbuddy, my best guess would be PV. Your interactions with him, if not for my town-read on you, read as that weak distancing so often poorly done if you're scumbuddies. I chalk it up more to you have other focuses right now, because I don't see how you could be scum ever given how you've played your role (and that scumBeli would be literally chaining a lynch on a player by offering yourself up when that player isn't someone you necessarily need lynched, let alone chained into).

[AGar]

Bah, fuck.

@Mod

I screwed up my quote tag. Could you fix it for me? Thanks, you're swell.

Done

[AGar]

GDI Garak, why?

Universal town reads still alive in almost-LYLO/MYLO?

Go on...

[AGar]

Nobody likes me because I'm 23.

Also, I still want to know the answer to what I asked in 7013.

And I have a hard time buying this game having been 15:5:1. Not a lot of really strong town power, which is what I would expect to be an equalizer in that kind of setup.

[AGar]

I'm really not a fan of the "No double-vote slam yet, X must be scum," tactic. Way too many variables, plus that's the oldest trick in the book.

I waited to see who would vote for who with the knowledge that Nacho was scum.

Um...

UMM....

Ugh.

Also, bit about not voting Nacho at the end is lulz from PV - me and him didn't vote Nacho, so that leaves me=scum when I didn't even post beyond the first 45 minutes of the day phase. Ooooook.

[AGar]

thtas pretty silly

For one, Beli pointed out the whole "both scum have to be online at the same time." problem. We've seen most of the players in this game, with a few select exceptions, disappear for stretches.

It also means they need to be communicating so as to point out that "Hey, there's a vote here, we should pile on." Which means daytalk. (Anyone have Kdub mod-meta on daytalk?).

It also assumes the setup was 15:5:1. With weak town PRs. I'm still not buying this. Town roles flipped have been as follows:

• Town JoaT with 1-shot reporter, 1-shot jailkeep, 1-shot vanillizer and a capability to refresh shots upon certain triggers.
• Non-consecutive tracker
• 1-shot gunsmith
• 1-shot watcher
• 1-shot BP bodyguard

. Our claimed roles still alive are a non-consecutive hider, an active backup of sorts, what amounts to a flavor cop, a neighbor and a 1-shot PGO-esque role. We know we had an enabler/motivator and not much else came forward. This is not a strong town in terms of power. You're telling me we're up against a 5-man scumteam here?

[AGar]

Dealing with some personal shit the next couple of days (and have been the past few), I'll try and post as much as possible.

hey i just wanna remind you that your fakeclaim was nonconsec commuter, not hider.

Evs? Commuter. I've had way more shit on my mind than this game the past few days.

Care to lay a vote or just swash around shit?

I haven't voted yet because I'm not compelled to, so put that in your pipe and fucking smoke it. Yes, PV has said some shitty stuff. It's not at a point right now where a) we need a vote. or b) I feel strongly enough to vote him. If I was gonna vote it'd be on ETL, but the fact that I have as strong a town-read on Beli right now as I had on Majiffy is preventing that.

[AGar]

Literally, you've tried to paint every single person alive as scum at one point since daybreak.

[AGar]

Literally, you've tried to paint every single person alive as scum at one point since daybreak.

believe i have tried to paint exactly two out of the five people alive as scummy; the number of scum i believe are left.

also not sure why youre asking me why i havent voted when i clearly have.

There are posts you've made throughout today that have felt as if you're just throwing shit at all four walls and hoping it'll stick to as many as possible.

And the vote thing was more about the fact that you deliberately called commuter a fakeclaim and yet didn't vote.

but tell me agar, do you think that professing to have a guilty on someone and then voting elsewhere and making no indication whatsoever of having that guilty until days later is something a player with the town win condition would do?

Do you think that calling someone's claim a "fakeclaim" and then voting elsewhere is something a player with the town win condition would do?

[AGar]

Intent to hammer. As much as I don't like Kanye's play all day long, I agree with the point on PV's result on Nacho. At this point, it doesn't get much more damning then that.

[AGar]

No I don't think so.

Kanye, let's cut the tango out of this. You claim to think I'm scum. I'm damn near sure you're scum. I think there's no way in hell that Beli could scum. If you have any opinions otherwise, please share them, because I'd love to see that, but otherwise, let's just get everything out there.

V/LA until Tuesday

This kinda fell on a shitty 72 hour stretch and I really can't put the time forth here.

[AGar]

Prod-dodge.

Looming weather kept me from getting home last night, and thus, from interwebs.

I'm at work now, taking a quick break. I'll be home tonight, get a useful post up sometime between 8-10 EST, depending on the commute home.

[AGar]

im just approachin this w. an open mind kiddo. but why the bravado w.o. a vote to back it up?

You mean other than it's LYLO? That's been drilled into me since day 1 of being on MS - you don't vote in LYLO until discourse has been had unless you have something damning like a guilty or a positive track.

Dude, Thesp was my first IC. I took that guys word as gospel from that game, and held onto a lot of what he taught.

AGar, imagine the game's over and I've flipped scum, then go over my ISO and tell me everything you wish you'd noticed.

- The no lynch to dodge RVS.
- Calling Kalimar town for voting you for voting for no lynch.
- Ignoring how impossible it was to get a handle on you early game.
- Your McClish IIoA.
- You applying your meta to other players to justify a vote.

Aaaaand that's all that really jumps out to me. You could be a smart enough player to use your role in a manner that distinctly was in a disadvantageous position to your team (I mentioned the part about offering yourself up to chain a lynch, and especially as the last remaining scum, that'd be a hell of a gambit to ride on), but it just seems way too risky when there were other possible scenarios to play from your perspective.

beli, why do you think that as scum i would make up a claim to prevent being nightkilled when i could just claim vt or a 1shot that i had already used to no great effect? it would not be odd for me to survive to lylo with pv, nati and etl all being higher priority kills. plus then scum can even pull the "well why isnt kanye dead" bull shit in lylo

Your claim came at a time when ETL being a priority kill wasn't a thing as Beli hadn't provided the claim to clear. PV wasn't a priority kill - he was lynched, scum called him lynchbait, and his claim required him spending a night of essential non-action, meaning a non-threat to scum. Your claim came at a time when you still were being townread by multiple people, and looked entirely like a long-term play to ensure you had a reason to be alive in the endgame over players who weren't being townread as strongly as you were before any claims and clears came out on the board.

VOTE: Kanye

I'm set here.

[AGar]

I didn't expect it.

[AGar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTfEDvVVwYE

[AGar]

Relieved. This was fucking brutal.

Especially after the slip.

[AGar]

The one you caught me on.

I got so overwhelmed with real life I forgot to double check on what I had put in as my fake-claim and yeah. I was literally incognito checking the thread to see if I was dead yet for a solid 24 hours.

[AGar]

I am well aware of that.

I knew my only chance lay on Beli finding you to be scummier in comparison than me.

I couldn't kill you. I couldn't kill him and leave you/ETL.

[AGar]

I regret nothing about the post game banter, Beli's reaction at the end sealed my fate for a vengekill.

WP Kanye.

[AGar]

I regret nothing about the post game banter, Beli's reaction at the end sealed my fate for a vengekill.

WP Kanye.

yah the vengekill is what i was referring to when i said that there wasnt anything you could have posted or not posted to save the game.

I didn't even get that at the time, honestly.

Well done Kdub, awesome job all around.

[AGar]

I think maybe he could have realized kanye's claim was fake (PGO that only activates on kill attempts with no town vigs = super overpowered), but since he was the last remaining scum, he probably couldn't have risked killing him even if he suspected as much.

I saw no chance I could justifiably make that shot on a hunch (because it read as gambit to me, but I'm notoriously bad at picking up on roletells), and then I saw some opportunity in keeping him around when the suspicion started cropping up about his claim a bit.

The Levi shot was probably the worst shot I could've taken. In retrospect, I should've killed Kanye knowing that he had been valuable enough to protect the night before. But I didn't see a Levi lynch going through with the knowledge that the 1v1 kept cropping up and Nacho had just flipped scum.

For those interested, I have a tendency to vomit my thoughts as scum into a QT after all of my partners die

by my hand for the most part

. This game wasn't as much "planning" as it was paranoid freakouts, though.

[AGar]

And G Gundam, please and thanks.

[AGar]

Props to AGar, for making it to endgame and notably not being lynched.

Gratzi.

[AGar]

god damn AGar
you're the shit man

But I didn't win.

[AGar]

Yeah, Titus, let's be real - Kanye was on fucking point this game. He actually caught on D1 but always pressed someone else.

leviathan93 - Tolle Koenig, killed Night 6
Kise Svenskt Stål StefanB TiphaineDeath - Kojiro Murdoch, lynched Day 7
Natirasha - Lacus Clyne, killed Night 7
PeregrineV - Cagalli Yula Athha, pilot of the Strike Rouge Gundam, lynched Day 8
Sakura Hana EspeciallyTheLies - Miriallia Haw, killed Night 8
kanyeknowsbest - Yzak Joule, pilot of the Duel Gundam, lynched Day 9

AGar, all of these townies are the townies you killed.
You got the three mislynches we needed for the win and only lost because of vengeful LyLo shenanigans, which counts as a win for us in my heart.
Keep in mind you did this with zero help from me in setting things up; the only lynch I vetted for you was leviathan and you didn't even need that one.

Not killing Kanye over Levi was a mistake. It was before massclaim so I had nothing to cause doubt.

That's gonna haunt me for a while.

But thanks. It was rugged.