Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Mafia - Game Over

[talah]

Vote: DrDolittle

[talah]

sakura is such a good vote im not even kidding

Nah, you're a better vote. You can be the counterwagon, kay?

[talah]

So Matias.. how do you like the chances of scumMastin having voted a scumbuddy in his first 'serious vote' of the game?

@mastin - do you think deasvail's vote on dolittle had a lot of meat on it? I wouldn't have bothered voting dv until she offered a reason for it. But I'm open to suggestion.

[talah]

Why I think DrDolittle is scum:

66 strongly suggests that he has a scumread on Sakura/is pretty invested in the wagon, and that his vote in 19 was serious. What I'm wondering though is why he didn't share his reasoning for Sakura being scum. If town are making a serious vote during what is still semi-RVS, they want to show everyone how smart they are and share their reasoning! Despite the resistance to Sakura-scum, he doesn't get very involved in trying to read her or gathering support (Matias and kanye's play around Sakura appears a lot more genuine by comparison). While I do have doubts, I don't think his play is particularly unlikely to come from scum so far either so I'm pretty happy with my vote here.

Wow. So. Right.
Are you saying you somehow reverse-telegraphed your scumread on dolittle, which you first mentioned when his only post was a naked vote?
Didn't I do exactly the same thing as him, in naked voting and then reaffirming that he was a choice vote?

What do you think of mastin?

[talah]

Because you laid down a seemingly "serious vote" on him based on him making a naked vote and nothing else.

So I wanted to see what you would do when I a) did virtually the same thing and b) joined the same wagon as you in doing the same thing.

However, I pretty much accept your response so am happy to see where you're going with this for now.

And I suggest to everyone else that a dolittle vote, is a pro-town vote.

[talah]

^^ not a fan of that unvotel

[talah]

Hey. Waynegg. Sweet.

Caught your post and have just flicked forward to post this. So now I have a question which occurred to me at the time.

Did you out your ENTIRE scumteam in that one post earlier?

You haven't even given a reason for any of them being town! Just "hey they're town townbloc yo"

And, how in the LORD'S HOLY FUCKING NAME can *I* be playing divide an conquer either as scum or town? Scum don't divide and conquer MASTIN and DEASVAIL, mastin of whom was

voting

deasvail? Probably based on picking up my own tell on des? Because otherwise he hasn't explained it? His gutread?

Town are awesome dividing and conquering scum - YEY. And picking up on stupid troll tells YEY.

VOTE: waynegg

My suit has 1-shot tracker, trump that BEATCH.

[talah]

Also, do, do, tell me about my scum agenda. In slow motion awesome shocking detail please.

And Des - no of course I didn't "go back and read dolittle's games" - and yet I

am

was voting him. How strange huh?

[talah]

Who cares if I claim. It ruins any option I'd have later if I was scum. I hated waynegg's townbloc post anyway. Was tempted to say "I want in" but basically the post struck me as a gambit. So I don't care.

And now I'll frack off.

[talah]

Anger it up, angrykanye.

I don't "do" meta unless it's shoved in my face and haven't played with Doolittle before.

[talah]

No, I'm kurosawasan. What?

[talah]

I also have a townread read on Matias because his posting has seemed fluid and natural, and I will also town read pieguyn on the basis of having *specifically* townread Matias rather than just having a noncommittal town list of a bunch of unspecified-reason names.

So actual townbloc:

talah | pieguyn | Matias

feel free to add to the list with good reasons. The core will validate your reasoning and return a result.

[talah]

The intent here doesn't look like you're trying to divide and conquer Mastin and Deasvail, but it does look like you're trying to divide and conquer. There's no town motivation at all.

Sure there's town motivation. I'm town. I'm quite happy to scream it into your face for however long it takes you to understand.

To be specific, you're playing Matias against Mastin against deasvail against Doolittle.

Um, YEAH. That's an aspect of my scumhunting, I like to have a couple of irons in the fire, I like asking players about other players so I can see if they're uncomfortable responding.

What in the literal fuck is this? Did you just claim because you

didn't like a players town reads? Because they might be gut-based?

Holy. Shit.

This is unbelievable.

...and because my vote resides on him

Yup. You're going to see me absolutely ignoring "classic" scumtells a lot in this game. I suggest you get used to it.

Agar - what's with your outrage at me claiming a pretty weak PR? Are you.. Going to.. *snicker* ..suggest I should be POLICEH LENCHED?

Back to you Weg - I'll let you in on my gameplan.
1) I pop in from time to time either to heavily OMGUS on people attacking me or attack weak logic and ambiguous statements
2) I act in an obvious-town manner
3) I vote freely and consistently to run wagons up, but choose *actual* lynch-wagons in consultation with my townreads
3) I force scum to decide whether they're going to try to lynch me, or nightkill me

Now the only couple of things I'm going to try to do a bit differently based on experience, is be *slightly* less antagonistic (or at least, all things in moderation) and also to avoid tunnelling if I can as it never really works out well for me.

So there you go. I'm telegraphing my intentions and my future gameplay. I'm being perfectly honest. Presumably you have a townread on me now. Pity I don't have one on you, nullsie.

[talah]

Des, Thanks for the compliment, and like I said before I'm fairly happy to see where you're going with things.

Actually, I'm looking to abandon this vote on waynegg and I was thinking of asking Nati if he would be willing to discuss/vote together for a bit to get a read on him. I'm wondering now if you'd be interested in playing like that for a bit too.

I was going to suggest a couple of options - Beli, mastin, and Majiffy.

Nati, I think you might be voting the wrong person - interested in getting off that stale vote and forming an informal voting pool (lol, sic) for a page or two?

My view on mastin is that his reads have been too obscure to see the intent behind, although if he has a reason for going from utterly verbose to overly succinct and is town, he could be an asset later and he'd be likely to show his hand with his play. I'd be more likely to want to run a wagon on him if he continues this for a couple more RL days.

Majiffy I'd love to make a nice nest of votes as a surprise for when he next reads the thread. I agree with the asking about RVS thing, and think it was weak (in terms of, "dude, weak") not to lay some kind of vote or comment down. Now if he intentionally didn't vote to stir up conversation.. We'd be doing him a disservice not to vote him, frankly.

Beli I'll leave for now but I did think of him as someone who might benefit from a few votes. If you two think he's a good wagon, will still do so.

So.. Up for a Majiffy wagon. I'll probably check back once more before bed in a few hours, lemme know.

ed: hi waynegg ;D

[talah]

VOTE: Majiffy

[talah]

Lets put it this way; to the 9 or whatever people voting me: What have I done that is

scummy?

If you're voting me, at 11 pages in, for "content-less posts" (all whopping three of them!) then I challenge instead your ability to scumhunt. 11 pages, of which presumably have plenty of content - since you're voting someone for a

lack

of content - and I'm your biggest scum read?

Ya'll are good at this game.

Hm.

Well, *I'm* voting you because I thought you might like to know you're loved and respected enough to be worth running up a lovely wagon on. And FYI - we're out of RVS.

When will you be caught up then? Because first you express pleasure that the game isn't moving at breakneck speed, and then you say you haven't made enough posts (and in fact that the game's not far enough in) to be called scummy yet. Are we going to crucify those who *have* posted content? Or are we going to wagon up on those who haven't?

Well hey, I don't know if you're scummy or not but this is a decent way to find out.

[talah]

What's your scumread on pieguyn about? I happen to have him in my townbloc for an early town read of obvtown Matias.

I haven't quite learned much yet but I will reflect on it. I gotsa go to work now so no time to unvote, sorreh.

ed: oh well maybe I do have a moment.

VOTE: Empking

[talah]

VOTE: NachoKoopa

Nominate

Nati

for townbloc. Comfortable in his own skin and pressuring players who definitely need pressuring. Asking the right kind of questions.

talah -

Yes

Matias - y/n?
pieguyn - y/n?

[talah]

^ heh, nice. No doubt you're town now, I'm glad that my townread on you is correct :)

Your deflection comment on Empking occurred to me as well. I guess what I've learned about Empking, is that he responds well to pressure, so if he's not contributing, he definitely should be wagoned, preferably baselessly.

Although if one *really* wanted a base at this point - it's interesting that the deflection is onto the other player I named as a possible wagon (Beli), onto Sakura (current wagonbait), references Majiffy's indignance to support 'baseless wagon = bad' (where it's not, it gives some great feedback and analysis as long as it's not quickhammered - which as an aside I was slightly interested that Majiffy almost got to L-1), and then adds a lurker who I can't even remember a post from (dopog) as alternatives.

I mean, that's some pretty solid deflection.

I think I understand Nati's rationale on the jump but I'll leave that to him - and wait for Matias' feedback on an official induction given your slight hesitation (which is fine).

---

I wouldn't be inclined to wagon Sakura - at this stage. She will need pressure at some point but might be easier to read through encouragement and watching changes of attitudes, votes, etc. I don't think we'll get anything useful from her if she's the major L-1 wagon.

I'm actually interested to know what kainwest thinks of the alternate townbloc / wagoning strategy right now. He's a pretty good player from what I've read and I think I'll recognise a faulty or false opinion, terse as the feedback may be.

kayne - that's a challenge.

k - Also do you think waynegg's trolling or showing signs of scum? Emp?

[talah]

^ heh, nice. No doubt you're town now, I'm glad that my townread on you is correct

^^^ That in response to pieguy, btw. I ain't got a read on you yet leviathan, ehh tending nicely consistent but y'know.

[talah]

I'm doing wagon formation and supporting folks I think are town, simultaneously checking out what they think and updating those reads and putting pressure on scum and town to perform.

You're blandly branding folks as scum or town and giving your opinion on gameplay.

You're my bird in the hand unless you do something more than grandstand.

[talah]

Sorry for drunk posting bit yeah I'm a bot why don't you justa man up and join the voting crew

Nacho:
And your sizeable town bloc seems like the promise of a large cock and I'm not seeing it, nacho.

Use the curly brackets {talah | pie guy | matias | nati I think}

can't self-nominate except for me.

Hey I have more confidence that majiffy's going to answer a question than you. Why are you avoiding commenting on me?

[talah]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[talah]

You and I, my friend, are in direct conflict on Majiffy.
I don't know where I saw it but I've seen the whole hiding arguments behind hyperlinks crap from him before. I can't even make heads or tails of his attack on pieguy, and I don't have time to open 45 tabs to analyse it. So I tend to think he reads scum.

And you seem nervous and I don't like the fact that you mention Jiffy and then tack on Levi as if to hide your association with Jiffy.

So - here I have my first of many many crackpot theories. You and Majiffy scumteam. Just putting it out there.

[talah]

Talah. I also called you and pieguy town. Are we teh scumz together?

Thanks ios7, lost my post. Sure why not, that'd make a lot of se-- whu? HEY HEY HEY THERE HOLD ON A SEC.

Nah so if you're gonna sneak in a town read on a scumbuddy, why not throw a couple of legit townies down as townreads first to hide the scum-shame you feel.

Anyway I'd probably not mind leenchen you today. If you want to know why, just go look at your ISO.

Ready?
Reads on Deasvail and mastin. Reasons for the reads.
QUICK QUICK QUICK time's a-wasting!

[talah]

Sakura, when you get done with your convo with Peregrine, can you please attack me for saying I wouldn't be inclined to wagon you, and then promptly wagonning you? Like... What the fuck's with that, huh?

[talah]

Nice. I still haven't bothered to examine Levi in depth fwiw.
As you were.

[talah]

So you're saying you're being scummy. What do we do with people who are being scummy?

Well I suppose "we the undefined collective", in answer to a question which rams a broken pool cue into the orifice of the notion that specificity is possible to convey using the English language, attempt to clarify both the premise and the question first.

"So you're saying you're being scummy"

No, I asked Sakura why she didn't challenge my inconsistency. It turns out I'm not on her radar, and that she has Levi on the mind. I accept that response because it means she

does

have an agenda and it looks to be scumhunting. I'll keep a peripheral eye on her and see.

If you really want to know, I voted Sakura because - priorities and priorities. Nati and I vote-teaming is a useful strategy, I think, and I'm a bit disappointed Des didn't follow along (although I missed the fact he was already voting Majiffy in the first place, which may have been a bit offputting).

My understanding - or idea - with the voting pool is that there's an inherent 'unvote before lynch' agreement between all members. It's something I'm inviting my town-leaning reads to participate and interact in.

Spoiler:

You're not invited because your dropped-logic argument on pieguyn was oblivious of the context of pie getting involved in the conversation to begin with. It wasn't an assertion that (s)he made in the first place, to be accountable as scummy for dropping it.

"What do we do with people who are being scummy?"

We? Do you mean good mafia players? Good scumhunters? Yourself notionally as part of one of these groups? Yourself by extension onto the universe of how you think all Mafia players should act?
People? Me? Your grouping of all people who act scummily according to you? People who act in the same way as I am acting?
Scummy? The way I acted in this particular sequence? The assertion you are making?

I suppose one would attempt to scumhunt, assess or assert.
Determine the motivations of the non-specific players who "are being scummy".

---

Couple of follow-ups because I'm tired and have some work over the weekend.

Majiffy

- something about something about three posts. I can't remember what you said but you're irritating me using your weight on someone I've already townread probably when you thought it was still RVS. Get off pie.
Also I'm taking keen mental notes on your interactions with Deas.

dolittle

- another one. another naked townread. I don't know where you're getting this stuff from. Because you're not saying.

kayne

- where'd you go?

---

My next post will probably have "fame", "lurksack" and "hall" in the title.

[talah]

Great, and pretty sure I wasn't in that game.

Yeah okay maybe it was a shitty reaction test.

Let me ask you - are you trying to sort me or are you trying to lynch me?

[talah]

Hey also: Fuck You.

VOTE: Beli

[talah]

Look, I get pissed off when people attack when I *think* I should be coming across as obvtown. But I'm not exactly naive and other people's disbelief was one of the first things I encountered here - given that it was what I did first getting massively invested in a game.

Insert summary > good point > contraindication of your argument > encouragement to fuck off and scumhunt.

[talah]

Glad I'm online then.

Anything else to add?

[talah]

You do realise I literally and provably haven't rolled scum before. I would have to be a fucking psychopath to be playing like I am as first time scum, wouldn't I?

ALSO WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED

TO YOUR THOUGHTS ON LEVI

[talah]

Hm let me see the claim.

My answer is who cares. It is actually a scumfucker because why would I track night one?

[talah]

Anyway who says I'm acting scummy?

I'm acting unpredictably, but who benefits from that? Scum or town?

Have I tried to insist on a wagon?

Have I.. yah etc, you need to prove I'm being scum.

Tell you what Sakura. Would you like for me to follow you on votes for a bit? Nati owes me anyway and I'm bored with my votes and Beli well he'll sort himself. Or Nacho will.

[talah]

I thought it was a weak PR and I thought recently that of there's a JK then goodo.

But I doubt I'll use this before lylo unless it's needed for probability or something. Idk - I claimed because fuck waynegg and it seemed like not too bad - I mean I'm not a doc

[talah]

^if there's, and provability
Fucking iOS

[talah]

FYI weg - I've got three or four completed games onsite. Not a super-noob.

There are a few players here who are in a better position to assess my alignment. That's all I can say about that.

[talah]

Hi! What was with the lurk-off?

Do you think sakura's scum or are you attacking sakura's defenders?

How do you feel about me?

[talah]

Cool. I'm not dumbass though. You can leverage me if you're town.

Currently we have a Beli wagon going on, and I'm interested in the Agar wagon that pie brought up.

[talah]

k. then anyone you're particularly interested in?

[talah]

Having trouble pronouncing your name pyro head

Spoiler:

Is it Tam-ee Tar-me Ter-mee Tam-eh?

also aggravation at the pace of this game - viables are emp dolit UMMM maybe kayne des beli at this stage

beli needs to answer his wagon

[talah]

yeh weg, preemptively, "VIABLES"

[talah]

Explain Sakura please.

If the answer is null, explain kayne if you would.

I have misgivings over the way you drummed on and on about Majiffy RVS tell. I'm thinkin you soft-attacked him.

[talah]

I don't think I can say more about Sakura than I already have. Nothing outright scummy, but her posting just falls flat for me. She seemed much more town where I saw her previously.

I think when kanye's scum he doesn't appear very town, whereas here he's pretty actively involved in scumhunting and what I'd expect from town-kanye.

These are incredibly one-dimensional reasons for categorising players as your strongest townread and your lynch of choice.
I don't have a read on Sakura, but I would not consider her to be a good lynch because she's willing to respond in real-time and had the balls to snap-vote me.
Kanye lurked off attention when I basically accused him of being scum I wasn't going to do anything with. His entire game has been -naked no reason reads- -griping about playstyles- -arguing about mathematical probability- -lurking off negative attention-. He's managed to avoid explaining anything he's doing with regard to finding out who's scum. I don't see how you get to a strongest townread from there.

I'm not sure what you mean by soft-attacked, but it's probably what I was doing? Before now, I haven't had the confidence in him being scum to make a case of sorts (and I'm still not all that confident but sshh).

It means that there didn't appear to be any strong motivation or purpose behind pushing for several posts about a single post Majiffy made in which he failed to vote and snarked about RVS. It felt like busywork and gave you a reason not to scumhunt on anyone else.
Not sure this says anything about Majiffy's alignment, actually. There was very little resistance to his wagon.

It's mostly already been explained, but talah because she is doing cool things to update her reads and figure people out, and I think it's much more effort to go to than scum would be bothered doing. I also agree with what others are saying about new scum likely to be more cautious than claiming 1-shot tracker and all that. Overall, her posting seems pretty genuine.

If I didn't think you were buddying before, I do now. Where someone buddying me might influence my opinion on them simply by virtue of the buddy - I either ignore it or don't look on it favourably.

DrDolittle is a much weaker read, and still almost completely based on what I mentioned before about being very different from his previous games. I thought that 350 wasn't so good though because obviously those townreads that he mentioned had no relevance to talah's actual point, so he's belittling talah's argument with something that isn't related to the point at all. This is a pretty weak thing though, so I'm still putting him as town, just more concerned about him than the others.

Dolittle hasn't made any posts which have made any sense to me but at the very least he's posting with some kind of regularity. The reasons he's given for a couple of his reads seem thrown together to me.

[talah]

I'm still waiting on Beli to interact here, the game's pretty much stalled for me until that happens.

Waynegg - any chance we can come to an uneasy truce? I'm happiest to lynch Emp at this stage; actually your scumreads are not too far off my lynch candidates. Not exactly scum reading you either - the flip-flop you did earlier on whether or not I was scum and the subsequent re-push actually has me reading you slightly town fwiw.

Matias - you happy to validate Nati as town?

[talah]

K, ta.

I agree that (at least some of the) scum are fairly likely to be lurking heavily. I had a very similar experience in Open 509, where there were a couple of pretty aggressive players floating around (including myself heh) and scum basically froze up.

Considering Pyro for townbloc actually but not ready to nominate yet. Wanting to be sorted is pretty townie.

[talah]

I'm not seeing anything in your ISO worth reacting to since our last tete-a-tete, and I'm trying to work out who to voke next, so if you want to dance, take your best shot now.

How are you intending to identify scum? Are you expecting everyone else to do the work for you?

How is anyone in the game supposed to get a read on you? Why shouldn't you be lynched aside from the fact you've interacted with virtually nobody up to this point?

Do you have any reads yet?

[talah]

You don't

really

expect me to explain to the scum exactly how to beat me, right?

Right?

No, I had hoped for a mere second for a glimpse into your perfect lurkaderp town-win plan.
"Right"

what?

if you're expecting me to agree with you just because you're attempting to come off as aggressive, you've got no idea of how I function and are directly avoiding addressing it.

Petulance noted and filed for future reference.

I can't think of a more useless statement you could have made, and combined with the above - your answer is effectively that you either don't have a plan or if you do, nobody but you needs to know about it.

I have no idea why the fuck anyone ever reads me the way they do in almost any game. I'm sure they'll keep on doing it, though.

You're an annoying addition to the lynch-pool until either myself or those I trust can give a read on you, and with a

reason

for the read.
Are you saying in most of your games you get townread "Because Beli"? I doubt it.

I have no intention of trying to dodge a lynch. As far as I'm concerned, it's like turning on the bathroom light to make the sun come up. I'm just naturally transparent.

Do you have any idea then why people are voting you? It just could be because you're coming across as trying to dodge a lynch, no?

Total completed games played : 20, over a period of just under a year
Total times mislynched : 1
Total times I've avoided a lynch on purpose, by force of effort : 0

No, I think I'll just sit back and let nature take its course with regards to defence.

This does not pass for content. I don't have you pegged as a naturally aggressive or stubborn.
I'm reading you as

FAKE

.

Not enough townreads to make me happy. Actually, not

any

non-gut townreads. My scumreads are pie, you, and wayne, which should be immediately apparent from even skimming my ISO. Hell, you could skim my ISO while drunk, riding a unicycle, and attempting to fend off attacks from pissed-off bees and

still

get that much.

I expect you to be able to self-narrate and give a summary of your major reads any time anyone asks you to reiterate. Going back over your ISO would be something I'd do to validate that you're not just making shit up on the fly. And the fact you've been gone for what -three days or so- having dropped our conversation after you half-assed attack on me means I actually have been focussing on other interactions.

What do you think of Empking, specifically? His ISO should be pretty easy for you to backfill on.

[talah]

Wrong. Wanting to be sorted is caring how you look. Caring how you look is scum.

That crossed my mind in terms of wanting to be sorted *by Nacho* though. Which is actually a pretty effective scumhunt as well.

[talah]

ed

Wrong. Wanting to be sorted is caring how you look. Caring how you look is scum.

That crossed my mind in terms of wanting to be sorted *by Nacho* though. Which is actually a pretty effective scumhunt as well.

[talah]

No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die.

...and your explanation of why?

Is your "case" on me really so weak you need to put words in my mouth?

And what "case" might that be? Reading the thread is tech. My issue is your pointed lack of opinion and weak reasons for your votes. I'm still getting no actual content from you, even having challenged you to provide some.

I get townread for reasons I neither expect nor understand. That's not saying there aren't any reasons, it's saying I don't grok the reasons and I'm not willing to waste my time struggling for something that just happens by itself.

Great - well hop to whatever the hell it is you do then.

People are voting me because they're either wrong or scum. If I discern which is which, I'll vote that way. Until then, to hell with it.

Are you following the thread? People are voting you to get a read on you, if I'm not mistaken.

Aww, muffin.

Aww, pumpkin. I can smell the turtle's head nudging your underpants.

If you're not willing to go over my ISO -- especially since your main argument is "lol u don't post enough," meaning it's a short -- that just shows you don't actually care, because you already know my alignment.

I did go over your ISO, and your reasons for voting are, simply put, shit.
I'm certainly getting a feel for your alignment.

Would you like to explain to me how waynegg and I are both scum? Have we been play-acting, or is this related to your multiball "townslip" earlier?

That makes you a higher priority target than pie.

Dude, weak. I'm not seeing your priorities as anything except trying to get players who are actually reading the thread mislynched.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: talah

lolu

Short, alignment neutral, not looking like a juicy voke target this game.

This game? Are you saying that despite having *no* read on Empking, you won't be voting him at all, ever?
Wow, that's two scum caught, do you care to name any others?

[talah]

This, I grok.

However, Beli saying there's nothing alignment indicative about Empking's ISO, and then saying he's not a good vote this game, is something I want an explanation for.

Also I want to wagon Mastin at some point.

VOTE: Empking

[talah]

I guess what I've learned about Empking, is that he responds well to pressure, so if he's not contributing, he definitely should be wagoned, preferably baselessly.

[talah]

[talah]

Levi - skim of your ISO gives me a headache. How you reading Deas?

What about Emp? Why aren't you voting Emp?

Fuck.

[talah]

For me, I'm seeing an association between Beli and Emp and am still slightly suspicious of Majiffy, so when Majiffy voted Emp with a sentence I didn't quite understand I was happy to follow along.

I'm pretty happy with Nati for town so far but he flicked on and off of Emp earlier and I wanted Emp to post something more substantial so I have no problem with driving Emp up to L-1.

Nacho has been slightly avoidance-based in his posts and I'd like to see him respond to Pyro who I think are being proactive.

I do believe waynegg is being quite proactive but unfortunately I rankle at being attacked for no good reason, even if I believe it has a purpose.

Mastin has shut down (although he is v/la weekends according to his sig, still he claims he has content and all I see are naked votes and a slight understanding of the suspicions I'm pushing - I want him to be a focus to see how others react) and there are numerous lurkers who could be, and might very well be, scum. Folks like dolittle and the dudes Matias and Nati mentioned. Mac's there too - one post?

I basically have a rather large pool of people I am suspicious of - and a reasonable pool of people I would lynch. Empking is one of them.

[talah]

On the quiet re Majiffy - I also understand the Empking push in terms of getting reads from people who will or not vote him - these are others like Nacho, Pyro, Mastin, DOLITTLE, and the lurkers.

Either it's an easy mislynch or a good lynch, idk. Either way we'll see people join the wagon naturally or opportunistically - or we'll see the wagon stall where it has a pretty good purpose.

What would be good here is a couple of free-spirited snap-voters to put the fear of god in a wagon.

[talah]

Nominate Sakura Hana for townbloc
Challenging/Authentic

talah -

Yes

pieguyn - y/n
Matias - y/n
Nati - y/n

[talah]

Pyro's in a similar category. But I can see what you mean.

Couple things depend on Nacho being town. And that's not fait accompli at this point.

[talah]

That at Nat btw.

Deas, no not particularly worried about Matias after his last post.

[talah]

I wanna nominate Pyrotechnics. he was pushing on wayne pointing out logical inconsistencies, and I like his attacks

Fine with me if you're willing to back it. Need a majority anyway.

{ talah | Matias | pieguyn | Natirasha }
{

Sakura Hana

|

Pyrotechnics

}

In support of Sakura, I read the vote proxy as a challenge to Nacho given the Empking wagon hitting critical mass.

Maj: were you calling me town in the post you voted me?

I have strong suspicions you might be, unless this is multiball.

Levi's vote sucked. Pie's vote sucked harder.
For those of you keeping score at home.

Just. Fuckin. Great.
Levi's -eh maybe- but not pie's if consider he was acting as part of a voting pool.
My brain's fritzing over you having Beli as town and Emp as prob-town.
Guide us then, oh sage one.

We're never going to do better than random with a strategy of playing 'Pass the Wagon'. You can't complain about lurkers, when there's an actual group of players wrecking this game from any natural (alignment-indicative) momentum.

I disagree. This is as natural as it gets because there are a bunch of folks either supporting votes or voting elsewhere, so there's extra initial momentum and also incentive for scum to try to slime their way onto a mislynch.

Why I don't care what you think I expect

you

to think? I guess it's because I have more pressing concerns, such as what to have for breakfast this morning.

No, why do you want me to "die, Mr. Bond", also known as, clarify your own "case".

Enjoy your breakfast. I might have some toast. I imagine you're having crepes smothered in maple syrup and creme fraiche, a side of champignons in light garlic sauce, and a frappucino laced with LSD.

Did I say both anywhere?

Nope.

You're both scumreads,

that doesn't mean I've decided here and now that you're

both

scum, or scum together. You keep asking me to defend stances I haven't taken. That's telling.

Emphasis mine.
I would think you'd try to resolve the logical inconsistency of "both" of us being scumreads and coming to some sort of conclusion. Because otherwise it seems quite like you're hoping that one of us will off the other.

This game? Are you saying that despite having *no* read on Empking, you won't be voting him at all, ever?

No, I am not saying that. Where did I say that? Where did I say anything even remotely similar to that?

Why, right here, what did you forget your scumslip already?

What do you think of Empking, specifically? His ISO should be pretty easy for you to backfill on.

Short, alignment neutral, not looking like a juicy voke target this game.

1) His ISO is short and alignment neutral
2) He's not looking like a juicy vote target this game

Please clarify, seeing you don't like me telling you how I'm reading things.

@Jiffy : Sod that, my vote's in the right place, and this argument is the first time I've had fun this game.

Is it because now you've got something to do?
It's because now you've got something to do, isn't it?
Nice and safe in the 'argue with talah and do nothing else' zone.

[talah]

Okay, thanks mastin. I'd like you to elaborate on your scum read of Kalimar please.

My own thought was that the first post seemed awkward - and in a couple of cases run-on sentences would make more sense than short choppy statements.

Secondly I have a couple of polar ideas on the Majiffy wagon - and neither of them is to look at his wagon later with an open mind

depending on his flip

.

Thirdly the second post asking a question about something which occurred only a couple of posts ago.

Couple of other things but it's difficult articulating heuristics.

@Nacho - I think Pyro is just as interested in sorting you based on you sorting them, as you are/have been interested in getting a read on Majiffy based on him sorting you. So I don't see why you're resistant to elaborating on your insta-town on them. Also the brush-off regarding your substantial town-bloc which I didn't care about at the time but thought about in relation to this. Maybe a couple other posts as well but I haven't actually ISO'd you yet, my statement was mostly (well, again) heuristics.

Bit time-poor and happy to let the big boys (and girls) play for a bit. Back within 24h.

[talah]

Holy shit - did I just get a townread on kayne? Is that what that was?

Deas - I have a slight scumread on Majerky right now but the risk/reward of him actually being town makes him not a fantastic D1 lynch. ADDITIONALLY I wish you'd stop tunnelling him and you know, scumhunt.

Nacho yeah like seriously... you haven't refused to sort pyro for the world to see... yet.

[talah]

Yeah...no

VOTE: Talah

Good vote.

I'm going with this:
VOTE: AGar

Kalimar, I'll be back.

[talah]

I'm tired and still have hours of stuff to do today, sorry for RL.

In the end I think the token support of pie is just as important as getting a read on Agar who I haven't really looked at an haven't got a feel for yet. So it's not a useless vote. It actually underlines weg's abandonment of his "trust me" wagon too, which tickles me.

So I'm moving on from players I've focused on before - Next up: Kal and Agar. Just played: Emp and Beli. Crossmix: Mastin, Nacho and Majiffy. At the end of the day there should be as much info as possible on as many players as we can get it from. If I have to make myself a focus to get it done, so be it.

I've got a nice feeling about you now Levi, I think your opinion on Agar is honestly where you're coming from.

[talah]

@Kdub - I'll be V/LA till end Saturday by the forum clock

[talah]

/vla ninja (I seriously hope this is the right account and swore I wouldn't do this...)

Deals, when in the fuck were you ever townread, by anyone? I'm with Majammy on you - you made a couple of post which I can and will cite which in the reading, physically slowed my brain like they had been so so pre-engineered. More on that later and on-demand.
The other and compelling thing which causes me to come in like this is that pie never made a decision to be "in a townbloc" just like every single person I've effectively offered a spot in my good books. This supposed universal townbloc is frankly -a bullshit and a construct-. It has the people I'm currently townreading, if you remember, and the fact that Nati is focused on now as 'a leader' is mainly because the few people in the bloc so far have accepted him as town. I accept that totally and I don't accept that this set of players are subject to non-town reading.

[talah]

{ talah | Matias | pieguyn | Nati | Pyro }

{waynegg | sakura | kayne | dolittle | leviathan }

[talah]

Heya. I am literally never going to get around to referencing those links you've put in that paragraph and that is part of the reason MJ gets a slight scum read from me (ed similar posts). And I've felt a simultaneity from you two. And now I can't decide if it's obv-early-bus Majiffy strategy, or Nacho-weird-over-explanatory syndrome, and I'm starting to feel like yea it may be a couple of scum factions. Although... I'd expect more from these guys - to me the back and forth between the two seems somehow impotent.

Fuckers.

Look. Who can agree that the optimal D1 lynch is NOT any of Majiffy, Nacho, Mastin, Deasvail? Apart from those in the Abilene syndrome 'townbloc'?

[talah]

Sakura's not consummated.

Yeah I'd like to hear a summary of why Majiffy thinks you're scum.

I'm supposed to be vela but kalimar is where I'm voting at deadline at this point, wondering what you, anti and pyro think of that. When I get around it I'm going to break up his entrance paragraph into each sentence on a new line to demonstrate how choppy and uncomfortable the mindset was.

Not sure on mastin yet btw.

[talah]

obviously - v/la, and nati
Gotta love ios7

[talah]

and they run scared

What do you think about Levi's readslist?

[talah]

This is ridiculous Majiffy, and I'm pretty sure you realise it.

I'll consider lynching him tomorrow. Who do you like out of Beli, Emp, Kalimar and Agar if it came down to deadline?

[talah]

Let me put it this way. What if we lynched Nacho today and he flipped town?

Imperfect analogy but people's thoughts evolve as more information comes to light and D1 isn't the best time to be lynching experienced players I have only a mild scum-lean on. I want to see what he does tomorrow, if he's still alive.

Is there anyone else you feel is a good lynch for today?

[talah]

And here I am thinking your entire fucking play revolves around WIFOM of the town variety.

[talah]

tbh I'm more interested in Sven's response to Levi's readslist but I doubt I'd oppose Levi's lynch today.

Sakura - might be time for that "Why you shouldn't vote Levi" post if you were serious about it.

[talah]

Seriously if we don't quicklynch the fuck out of pie I am going to pout in a corner and not play nice with anyone till LYLO. This is fucking ludicrous.

[talah]

Pie seems to be addressing each and every question and concern which is raised, as well as pressuring other players and supporting his townreads.

I have literally zero fucking idea what you are doing.

[talah]

Pie seems to be addressing each and every question and concern which is raised,

Playstyle, not alignment.

as well as pressuring other players and supporting his townreads.

You mean like how he's letting Empking lurk off his wagon while keeping his vote there and remaining adamant that he'd rather lynch Empking over me while wasting time, space and energy getting into big clusterfuck wall wars with me WAIT THIS SOUNDS LIKE SCUM PLAY LOL

I have literally zero fucking idea what you are doing.

TRYING TO LYNCH SCUM AND YOU'RE BEING A FUCKING RETARD.

This doesn't need breaking up. I don't have time to argue with proper references and supporting quotes until tomorrow, or else I would be looking toward Kalimar and Agar. But you're on a dud deal thinking Pie is scum. If it comes down to one of the two of you, it's you. And we've already seen how quickly a Majiffy wagon can inflate.

So given you don't get your pie or deas wishes. Who will you lynch instead?

Oh btw, pie's voting Agar, not Emp. And a couple folks have nitpicked on that despite pie not being the only one who's been relatively free with a vote.

[talah]

K. Who out of Kalimar, Emp, Sven, Beli then.

You're irritating me again with such a closed mindset and only considering popular current affairs. I think you're trying to avoid branching out.

And no the fact pie is now voting someone else, isn't your point. It's a mistake you made which you are trying to reinforce as your point.

In fact, would you be willing to lynch waynegg? Just wondering, considering you said he's being idiotic.

When it comes down to it, are you willing to lynch *me*? Just what are your motivations for a day 1 lynch?

[talah]

Summarise your scumread of pieguyn in a paragraph.

VOTE: Majiffy

Oh look at that. I'll be back tomorrow.

[talah]

Levi

- I actually expected you to say you were intentionally trolling.

Pie

- yeah I don't care anymore and I won't oppose it. I think it was the post with several 'what's and 'concerned-face's which made me not give a shit. But I'm going to be voting who I want to lynch for the remainder of the day and I still need to check back with Kalimar, at least.

Beli

- why didn't post 312 detonate your frontal lobe with your MacGubbin analysis? And three stalwart scum-reads? And.. just nothing? Everything's above board? And Kalimar's now in the clear because.. the site name is MacGubbinForensics.net?

Time's getting short, people, and I don't have a whole lot to spare so let's get our fuck on and figure out who's the best lynch.

Thankyouinadvance

:cheesygrin:

[talah]

I think it's waaaay rich to be assuming that most of the scum have been active and posting. Neway. Waiting to hear from a few other folks.

And Beli I was talking about your law of threes in post 312.

[talah]

someone talk to me about my claim

Is that the A-Team guy?
I got your joke by the way.

[talah]

Pity the fool.

[talah]

You guys are gonna have to help me out with flavour, I think.

So what's the deal, these guys have like a warehouse of flight suits with abilities tied to the suits? Or modular packs or something?

[talah]

So what's the deal, these guys have like a warehouse of flight suits with abilities tied to the suits? Or modular packs or something?

This doesn't sound like the comment of someone

who claimed a power-role

*; talah may be scum*. (But NOT a lynch candidate today.)

*Only "may" because it

also

doesn't sound like the comment of scum who probably would know.

I only got one role pm [insert mildly abrasive pronoun]

I'm asking because I'm interested and want to clarify something to boot. Maybe I'll wiki it.

[talah]

Multiball confirmed.

Stay strong, town.

Not sure if scum... or amusing asshole

UNVOTE: Majiffy
VOTE: Kalimar

Yeah.. just not making any waves in his criticisms and danceHello! not even voting, probably because he doesn't want to piss anyone off. Time to make that impact champ.

Beli, continuing on, if you're going to be attempting written analysis and then include your own interpretation of the psychology behind it, then it's absolutely valid to include the psychology which would cause a player to pick out three wagons with three players on them, and then reinforce the same thinking by pressing only three scumreads. There's no "what the fuck is this shit" about it. You're selectively applying your own rules.

[talah]

Too late for what? Go drink a soothing cup of Oprah's 'erbal tea.

Mastin: explain your scumread on pie.

Empking: explain your scumread on pie.

waynegg: explain your scumread on pie.

Beli: explain the fact you don't have a scumread on pie.

Levi: explain why you voted pie and then unvoted.

Sven: explain why you voted Majiffy and then pie and then unvoted when pie claimed.

I mean, etc etc.

/inb4 waynegg calls me scum again
/inb4 beli leaves his vote planted on the least likely player to be lynched today

[talah]

Meh. Too many claims. I'm fucked overnight.

ed: agree where the frack is that dude?

[talah]

Kalimar's a pretty good shot for scum, I reckon, and I ask townies who haven't yet, to take a look at his short ISO.

Speed of wagon-growth is only one factor in determining town or scum. There's no way to know things like whether scum's asked specifically to be bussed if it looks like they're going down anyway. Even scum are individuals when push comes to shove, and have to make their own posts.

Plus deadline's getting close which puts the ultimatum of a potential no-lynch on townies.

Majiffy's a terrible vig btw. And also a terrible protect if you ask me.

Pie - will you shoot within a given set if a few of us can come to some sort of consensus?

[talah]

Sweet. I put my cookie on AA9 or Sven. Both have done nothing.

Popcorn to Nati

[talah]

Dual popcorn to waynegg for expediency (just go with this one.. he's probs town unless he actually shitfits)

[talah]

Oh btw.. pie you should say who you want to vig too please :)

[talah]

Meh, it's kind of policy "vig" I'm considering as to an extent I expect the "hardcore awesome" players to sort each other out while I pick up on the glaring stupidities from the sidelines.

If you want me to whop a couple of extras on, probably Levi and Agar (wanna say Emp, but deleted it and put Agar, lol) could be considered but I think that would be subject to other folks I am (/we are) considering town to have input on.

NachoKoopa could be popcorned to. Beli's an interesting species although I might have brought that on myself by being slightly less than diligent at some earlier point in time.

Apologies for including a shitload of un-sexily formatted thoughts, but in addition I'd really like the hydras' other heads to step up and provide input once in a while. Syryrynabanana and Fereie I think are the two. Both should be covering when the other heads can't post so much.

ed: thanks natisan

[talah]

CALL IT GUT FEEL

WHY ARE YOU FUCKERS RESISTING

WHO'S THE VIG WEG

YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE AT A CASE MJFI

[talah]

Are you drunk?

Nope. Do you have any scumreads outside of pie, dv, levi?

[talah]

Who said there IS a vig Yalah? And what exactly are you popcorning? I can't answer if I don't understand the question. Second request for clarification and why are you freaking out over the first request? Oh yeah...

Um.. Read the thread? I think mastin claimed vig. Not sure.
Popcorning a pool of players mastin (the vig) is allowed to shoot, just in case mastin (the vig) (isn't actually the vig)
What do you want clarification on?
When did you request clarification that this is the second request?

Wayne vote DV.

Dammit Jiffy. Your pie is just too good. So good my ass grew roots and my feet were shrouded in concrete. Now you want me to move? Wth? It's like ripping my ass off to do it, and my wife really likes my ass...

VOTE: DeasVail

Please explain why Kalimar is such an unhealthy lynch.

[talah]

Really Nati?

[talah]

lel

had enough of today
vote kalimar

[talah]

Chill bb.

[talah]

VOTE: Kalimar

[talah]

Are you drunk?

Nope. Do you have any scumreads outside of pie, dv, levi?

Waiting......

[talah]

yah kalimar is town. he was clearly planning on using his dayvig today and scum with a dayvig doesnt out d1 unless they absolutely have to.

Conspiracy theory obligates me to wonder whether this is indeed multi, where both scum factions have *anytime* kill abilities. The command wasn't dayvig, it was kill, which would support this marginally I suspect. So would x-shot.

I'd be ok with a Kalimar lynch... I wanna see his answer to my question first, but currently he's hardly posted anything and the posts he's made I can't see any direction in his play. 0.0

I'll be making an impact in this game soon enough.

If you had to pick between Majiffy and Empking dying, which would it be?

this is not so subtle pr speak for I HAVE A CONFIRMABLE ROLE

And then randomly kills Mastin - the townie. No pre-emptive claim to stop the wagon, no consultation, just boom, one strong player bites the dust. I can't think of a player who was actually openly scumreading mastin, and in fact Kalimar called *me* out on what he was calling 'a quarter attack' I believe.

I think mastin's reads will be a very useful guide into the future and I'm happy to switch to AA9 if it comes down to it.

[talah]

1183 is really scummy.

I think it's best not to lynch either Kalimar or Pie today. Both their alignments will be more obvious later.

Vote: Majiffy

/hopeful

AA9 wagon is ok, but not amazing.

Meh, waynegg's scummy in general. I'd be more worried if I saw him late on a wagon, based on how he's playing.

Majiffy's the kind of busted-brain game mechanic that I wouldn't be surprised if him-scum had explicitly advised his scumbuddies to join his wagon gleefully should it look viable. His charisma's pretty fucking confounding from the perspective of trying to get a read on him. He just says "no" to every attempt to pin him down to a reason or motivation and everyone just goes "aw that irascible scamp". The best I've got from him is a paragraph which doesn't explain the fact that his opinion basically ignores the last thirty pages. If he hadn't posted that entire time, he'd be in exactly the same position as he is now, having self-created probably five pages.

I still hold fond thoughts that you and he both are scum, Deas. It just seems like a Majiffy-scum thing to suggest to a buddy.

Anyway - I feel the same way about Majiffy as you feel about pie/kalimar. His alignment will be easier to gauge later imo.

Kalimar needs to die, because:
scum interactions + scum iso + strong town player reading him as scum + kills strong town player reading him as scum + then goes off into lurk mode which got him into hot water in the first place + dodgy characters supporting him as town

===> SCUM

[talah]

What I mean by 'more obvious' is that there's the possibility there for kalimar's alignment to become really obvious, and in pie's case just having some kills to deal with will give us a better idea of the possibilities (still not buying that he's groupscum though). These are both role-related (although I have opinions outside of this that I'll probably talk about Day 2), whereas I don't think Majiffy's role has the potential to reveal a great deal about his alignment, and I still think he's scum.

Kalimar's alignment probably doesn't need to become more obvious unless you're breathlessly waiting for him to lynch Nacho tomorrow morning.
Like seriously, the only possible confirmations of his role are: 1) he gets nk'd and flips town 2) he lynches scum on a subsequent day
What we know: 1) it doesn't matter if he gets nk'd and flips town because he's the Lone Ranger of daykilling 2) he will probably lynch town on a subsequent day if he gets the opportunity to do so, because he's the Lone Ranger of daykilling

I don't really think pie or kalimar are going to be lynched today anyway. Those interested in lynching one of them are pretty divided, and I doubt too many are going to jump ship, so it's probably going to be something else, and I think it should be Majiffy.

How do you figure the kalimar wagon is stalled when he's got the equal top amount of votes after they've just been reset? The vote you just laid down, again, says "I'm supporting a defunct vote". There is almost no chance of your proposed lynch being successful! So why?

[talah]

Whatever, if he's got more than 1-shot, then he's very likely town, so I want to wait for clarification on that. I can see scum having a 1-shot vig maybe, but any more than that and I just don't think it works.

And how do we clarify whether he is more than 1-shot? Do you think an *anytime* scum kill is a thing?

[talah]

No, kalimar vs pie is not a thing.

[talah]

Let me clarify: you are saying that Kalimar is looking pretty town.

Having just killed town.

[talah]

VOTE: DeasVail

[talah]

Let me clarify: you are saying that Kalimar is looking pretty town.

Having just killed town.

You realize that I also hold that position?

What seems to be the problem?

[talah]

Let me clarify: you are saying that Kalimar is looking pretty town.

Having just killed town.

You realize that I also hold that position?

What seems to be the problem?

You voted him shortly after, implying you believe it's scummy to think Kalimar is town despite having killed a town player.

Huh, what?

I think it's scummy to assert strongly that a "town dayvig" is actually town when they've just unilaterally killed a strong town player who no-one was scumreading.

Catfiche?

[talah]

pieguyn (4)

- waynegg, Empking, Majiffy, AGar

Look at this town-as-shit wagon. Just look at it, and marvel in its fucking glory.

Then join it.

Lol, three trolls and a mute.
Someone pull Tom Selleck's contract please.

[talah]

His kill - albeit dumb - looked town motivated.

No, it wasn't dumb. Dumb would have been killing me who was attacking him.

Hey. Hey there. Why don't you vote Deas now?

[talah]

So you'll only consider lynching pieguyn, the claimed vigilante who will shoot whoever town decides and who actually needs to account for his actions

And absolutely not the claimed x-shot dayvig who just shot mastin because he can prove himself by shooting someone else

GOOD THINKING

[talah]

Meanwhile, he has been actively caught lying, misrepping, coming up with insane theories to push wagons, lying about said insane theories, historical manipulation, having a shit breadcrumb, having a shit claim in light of the other claims that have been outted, and generally being a scumbutt.

I have seen precisely zero lies, misreps, or insane theories from pie.

What I have seen is an active scumhunter, someone who is diligently reading the thread and responding to each and every argument put to them, and pushing four or five boundaries at at time.

I've also seen a passive and pliable town motivation, in sheeping townreads on wagons, pushing his own scum reads but not being obstinate about them.

Then I've seen a slightly premature claim after I pointedly stopped defending him and where you spent a full ten pages attacking him.

He may fucking well be an SK but I highly doubt it. At the very least pie will vig a sensible target and be able to explain it tomorrow or will get lynched for a bad choice.

Kalimar on the other hand you somehow expect is immune from scrutiny. And somehow you now have only one viable lynch option yourself: the claimed vig. Even having said you are happy to lynch Deas, when someone who's serious about it actually pushes, you're off it.

Pie's actually right - you're scum, and by the looks of it I'm right too - you AND Deasvail are scum. Right along with kalimar.

[talah]

You're right.

Saying nothing is the best policy. Surprised I didn't think of it.

Note to self: Kill town, don't explain, conftown.

[talah]

Meanwhile, he has been actively caught lying, misrepping, coming up with insane theories to push wagons, lying about said insane theories, historical manipulation, having a shit breadcrumb, having a shit claim in light of the other claims that have been outted, and generally being a scumbutt.

I have seen precisely zero lies, misreps, or insane theories from pie.

Lol ok so you haven't been reading, thanks for confirming.

What I have seen is an active scumhunter, someone who is diligently reading the thread and responding to each and every argument put to them, and pushing four or five boundaries at at time.

Active scumhunter is bullshit.
Responding to each and every argument isn't a towntell.
I don't see any boundaries other than stupidity being pushed.

I've also seen a passive and pliable town motivation, in sheeping townreads on wagons, pushing his own scum reads but not being obstinate about them.

You know there used to be a time where calling someone town and then blindly sheeping them all game so you can fly under the radar and point the finger of blame elsewhere was considered scummy. What happened to those days?

Then I've seen a slightly premature claim after I pointedly stopped defending him and where you spent a full ten pages attacking him.

Yeah and he deserved every single one of those pages. Did you read a single one of those pages? Because there was a whole lot of scummy bullshit on his end.

He may fucking well be an SK but I highly doubt it. At the very least pie will vig a sensible target and be able to explain it tomorrow or will get lynched for a bad choice.

I have already explained why ScumPie will be able to get away with not doing this at all whatsoever for a very long time.

Kalimar on the other hand you somehow expect is immune from scrutiny. And somehow you now have only one viable lynch option yourself: the claimed vig. Even having said you are happy to lynch Deas, when someone who's serious about it actually pushes, you're off it.

Kalimar's claim makes sense. Pie's does not. I mean there's no simpler way to put it and you're just being fucking retarded about the point.
I was voting DV. No one else was interested. I returned to Pie.

Pie's actually right - you're scum, and by the looks of it I'm right too - you AND Deasvail are scum. Right along with kalimar.

YOU CURRENTLY HAVE ONE SCUMREAD
DOWN FROM THREE
AND IT'S THE CLAIMED VIG

YOU'RE EVEN DEFENDING DEAS
YOUR SCUMREAD

IN FAVOUR OF LYNCHING THE VIG

[talah]

Kill town,

don't explain

, conftown.

What does this look like then:

I was contemplating waiting on this because I simply haven't had time to read this game properly.

However, I've found mastin's push on me dodgy from the start and I've had a gut bad feeling there all game. I'm usually pretty good at detecting inauthentic pushes.

Hmm. Good point.

Oh wait, hang on, he's actually not posted since then.

How do I resolve that in my mind? Hmmm.

Okay, he says that from the start he's found mastin scummy
Well to be fair, did punctuate a post of kalimar's with 'Scum'
I engaged mastin on the post because mastin was ambiguous about a lot of stuff
I said "I think it's scummy because it looked awkward and etc"
I push Kalimar several times in posts saying I'll get back to him
(And being a bit time poor, lay out a précis case and vote him)
Everyone else wagons upon kalimar for various reasons
not mastin though, mastin puts kalimar as last priority of three lynches

Kalimar's move:

"kill: mastin
I've long been suspicious of mastin"

Chaos ensues
Questions are raised
Kalimar does not post
Not at all

Zero posts since then

[talah]

I refuse to lynch a claimed power role under these circumstances on day one of a large theme with a fucking softclaim investigation on him. Get your head out of your ass and see how suboptimal such a lynch is.

Ugh, I've been on too long.

I can't see how the vig that just occurred is town-aligned.

Ymmv. Tag.

[talah]

VOTE: Majiffy

basically because I don't like to be facepalmed, I think it's cheap and cheesy and the one emoticon which should not be used under any circumstances.

also happy with majiffy for scum at this point. way way too much defending of every single scumread I've had, and I've checked a bunch of players out. Apparently only pie is scum. 1 v 20 seems a bit lopsided for my liking.

[talah]

Note to self: ask Majiffy why he re-ordered me in a lynch list a couple of pages back.

Whatever.

VOTE: AA9

[talah]

Prod dodge here (not trolling the ^above)

Waiting on actual content from scumspects and happy with this lynch for today.

[talah]

Just by the way kayne,

I like it a lot better when you typo stuff because when you don't it looks like you're getting way way serious

And based on the few things you've done this game, I don't think that level of seriousness is warranted. I thought you might be town because you came back and did a nacho push but now I'm seeing you do practically nothing to advance the game and you ain't voting AA9 although you're basically saying you might

Hey pie: my current vig pool is:

(Kalimar | Dolittle | Majiffy | Waynegg | Empking | Fuck it Beli) and AA9 if that's not lynched

I would also accept 'I didn't Vig' tomorrow and would like it if you considered town-wifom in your Vig considerations. I'd also like to hear from Nati, Sakura, (fukn Matias isn't replaced), Pyro (especially Syr), possibly dolittle and Nacho too. If we get a pool of three and you Vig what you think best, I'm happy. Is PereV in this game?

[talah]

What if we leave Levi and Beli out and put kayne in the pool?

I'm cautious about weg as well but a flip would be pretty fucking enlightening.

[talah]

Okey dokey. Well actually I think your pool looks pretty good.

[talah]

Maybe add Agar for spice.

[talah]

Well that only really happens if AA9 claims doc with 12 hours to deadline, so I'd say we're cool.

Otherwise she could give a shit about the game at least to the point of saying 'hey guys hang on' instead of just imploring Nacho.

I mean - I'm up for Kalimar seriously because I don't see the problem with lynching a spent dayvig who just fucked town - even if they're claiming they're not spent. But if AA9 flips town (and she's doing nothing) then at least we have some information on quite a few players and Nacho not the least. It's not conclusive but it's no loss in my opinion.

[talah]

That was already done.

Enjoying being a treestump much?

[talah]

In the galaxy of "Oh I, the great Belisarius H Superiatos, do hereby decree, that any questioning of me, shall - YEA - be herby declared, PETULANCE, and I shall hereby define scumminess... As only those things I recognise, that I myself, have done before.

And so sayeth your lord.

And by the way, I'm not voting anyone who's either definitely not going to be lynched, or who is... Oh no wait forget it.

I'm just voting talah and you guys can go fuck yourselves for any other kind of info."

>END BELISARIUS MONOLOGUE

[talah]

Vote PieGuy and obamacare will go away and the deficit will self correct. Do it for your country, and for the world economy!

I wholeheartedly endorse this product and/or statemen---

oh hey hold up no purchase order

still on the vig list

[talah]

Mm k ta Sven,


ASIDE



Wish tamuz was here, that not-in-this-game bastard.

Nevertheless, white shorts, Nik Kershaw etc.

[talah]

I read the first three words if each paragraph - do you have a précis?

[talah]

^yup, preferably some reads with some reasons

Because at the moment I'm anticipating a fake(?)claim which causes everyone to freak out with hours left till deadline, so I care less about claiming than I do about opinion, which makes a read available.

So AA9, if you're town can you please be really pro-town and post something like, now.

---

KALIMAR WHY DID YOU KILL MASTIN

AND WHY ARE YOU LURKING OFF

WHEN PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK YOURE TOWN FOR IT

[talah]

^weg, I thought you said I was bussing AA9 earlier. There have been a few instances where I feel like I've been deadlocked in a game of chicken with you. And it's been you who's flinched both times I can remember off the top of my head.

So by your own reasoning, if a wagon's stalled, it's on scum, right?

I'm pretty comfortable with a DV lynch if it comes down to it, but yeah, not a vig claim who I think is town anyway, and who's apparent "conclusive proof of fakeclaim" counter is scummy as shit and hasn't even posted since daykilling town.

[talah]

Well if you weren't so damn fickle and unpredictable I might think of you as an asset and identify with you.

But I really can't see Majiffy being town in this game and basically you're banging a wooden spoon on a pot while pushing his extremely weak arguments and claiming them as your own.

Is that interpretation any better for you?

[talah]

Aight fine. I've been reading everything you've posted.

I actually think the vig list should be (Kalimar | Majiffy | Empking | Dolittle) now. If you ignore Majiffy does that look good to you?

[talah]

If I thought it was policy I wouldn't be voting it.

[talah]

I've got to go to work but I can't help it.

Here's the tl;dr of your argument for pie being scum as I see it:

>Scummy wallposting
>pie's a little scumbutt
>vote pie
>can't be two town aligned vigs and kalimar's defo town
>pie's a little scumbutt
>vote pie

And this is pretty much all of it, despite spamming up a range of 20 or so pages "scumhunting" on him and having both waynegg and AGar supporting your every post during that time and not expanding on your arguments. In fact all three of you seem to have completely forgotten what your arguments were to begin with, in favour of latching onto a complete and utter wrong, being that he's gotta be scum because kalimar just daykilled.

I mean if you think pie's an SK, just say that, but it's totally ridiculous to think that pie-scum is going to claim vig as scum, and if SK, then has pretty much lost too. And really, with a max of what? four votes? there's really not even a reason for pie to have claimed vig as anything but town vig.

Also I thought your claim was scummy at the time it came and the fact it was a fullclaim, and the fact you request a prot, and the fact it's watcher, of all the stupid things.

ed: ^@Majiffy

[talah]

If you think I didn't expand on my arguments then you didn't read the "20 or so" pages of "spam". Which would explain why you think they're spam, and also why you aren't voting pie.

Piescum has relatively little to do with Kalimar killing someone. That's just an additional factor.

Also I thought your claim was scummy at the time it came and the fact it was a fullclaim, and the fact you request a prot, and the fact it's watcher, of all the stupid things.

I'll wait while you explain why

any

of this is scummy.

I read along and couldn't see anything except hijacking of logical conversation at your end and constant pie's a scumbutt/vote pie/WHAT/FACEPALM. Which was why I asked for the summary, in which you said the main point was scummy wallposting, and then proceeded to claim with very little pressure. And of course you realise that fullclaiming a role similar to my own, if you're scum, just drags legitimate protects off actual PRs so you can nightkill the real claims at leisure. Especially when you're talking about self-watching, which means you would need a *doc protect*.

[talah]

^can you address why mafia would claim vig please.

My argument isn't circular because there was no reason for you to claim in the first place with such a weak PR and with pie agreeing to shoot in a set. It reeks of self-preservation and not town motivation.

Oh yeah and I don't know if I mentioned it but I certainly alluded to it - I'm not tracker but I'm something remarkably similar which I realised when I checked my PM when mastin and I were talking just before he died. I'm still not using the ability tonight. At least, probably not.

ed: ^@Majiffy again, and I really gotta go

[talah]

VOTE: levi
pls guys. I'm usually very lenient towards new players and give the benefit of the doubt
but this guy bleeds scum on every post everytime I check in

Yeah the last post was terribad actually. I'm turning a jaundiced eye on Nacho now too. Trust Sakura, though, especially since she made mention that the neighbourhood is no guarantee of Levi-town.

So only a couple of days. Only a couple of votes needed.

Hi Wake. Are you playing a scum role in this game, or do I just read you as scum having read that game where you were an asshole to everyone? (s'ok, I can see you're mutable, but legit question)

[talah]

By reading Majiffy as town, I completely understand his arguments. Especially the post about how in this game there are a possible 2 different scum teams, or a scum team and a SK. The SK part hit me the most.

If there really is an SK then Pie would be a very good option to lynch because of it. He would continue killing people maybe in the name of "town" and then people die each night that town specifies and so he looks just like an ordinary unlimited shot town vig, or x-shot vig on the side of town.

Levi, it was mainly these couple of paragraphs got me agreeing with Dolittle.

Can you explain to me:

• Why it is a revelation to you that there might be three options for scumteam combos, and why Majiffy's argument is so enlightening having typed the three obvious options into his web browser of choice, and
  
• Why you think it is a good idea to lynch the SK day 1 if we believe we've found him and got him chained?

[talah]

How many scum did you think there would be?

How is a Serial Killer that claims vig not going to be insta-lynched if they shoot someone who is not in a narrowly defined pool given to them? They don't share a qt with scum, right?

[talah]

FUCKING IOS7 SAFARI CRASHING SHIT

Levi. I typed a lovely post for you but the nutshell is I think you're trying to appear less aware than you actually are about setup and permutations. Which makes me think you're lying.

[talah]

normally, you'd probably be right

About what?

[talah]

I'm game.

VOTE: DrDolittle

Not sure why AA9 gets a free pass, though.

Can anyone provide a brief explanation of the advantage to an SK of knowing another character is in the game and vice versa?

[talah]

Majiffy, shut the fuck up and lynch Dolittle.

We can deal with Pie tomorrow. Or you can, since I'm probably eating the nightkill.

^compelling argument, short on time. You're posting way too much with way too little substance.

[talah]

Fucking noob Townies won't lynch the Serial Killer.

I'll be fucking pissed if it kills a Town PR.

It's hugely more likely that scum are on pie's wagon if pie's the sk.

Pie did you claim flavour when you claimed vig?

In any case I'm not budging. Pie has one chance to hit scum tonight, otherwise speedlynch.

OR YOU COULD USE YOUR X-SHOT "DAYVIG" ON A BETTER TARGET THAN MASTIN, WAKE

[talah]

you're hilarious

I think hesa funneh too

Wake: we're down precisely nothing. A single NK last night was the best outcome realistically possible.

I agree with kayne. Today better not be 40+ pages of "let's lynch pie". I have no interest in that lynch again today. Think of it as when a mason fakeclaims mason on another player they don't know the alignment of. It doesn't matter what the other player's alignment is, because you take them down to lylo and as long as one of the other real masons is left, bam, you lynch the recruited player. In the meantime you have days to find the remaining scum.

This situation is like that, except THE ENTIRE FUCKING TOWN KNOWS THAT PIE NEEDS TO BE LYNCHED.

So shut up about it and find the remaining scum. Talking about pie being scum is busywork and unproductive.

Now had there been two town NKs, we could talk...

VOTE: Svenstk

On mastin's scumlist.

[talah]

^Newsflash:

1) Please nobody else claim unless you're at L-1
2) There was only one nightkill which is a net gain to town if there is more than one scum faction
3) We mislynched Dolittle primarily *because* we were distracted by this kind of talk

Wake, how are you reading Svenstk?

ed: Newsflash@Wake

[talah]

VOTE: Wake88

Wall of bullshit. Massive scumtell.

[talah]

I think the opposite - what makes him dangerous is that he never sounds trustworthy even when he's town.

Anyway it's possibly a personality thing and anyway I'm thinking about site-flaking because I actually have almost no time to play properly anymore.

Since we're not seeing abilities flip I think Majiffy's probably actually town - but it depends on the kind of fakeclaims Kdub is offering. My ability is flavourized as Flight Rotor Shrike and from what I can tell there are only two options, and Majiffy's got the other.

Therefore - fuckit.

VOTE: pieguyn

[talah]

What are you talking about? There are only two options?

On the M-1 Astray, in the Wiki, there are only two packs mentioned. I hadn't said anything about mine when Majiffy claimed the other.

[talah]

Actually it's M1 not M-1 if you're googling.

pie - sorry dude, if you'd hit scum with your kill I'd work myself into an increasing frenzy of capsrage over it but as things stand, between clawing my own eyeballs out at wake's posts, smashing my own head in with a hammer at majiffy's and wanting to quaff embalming fluid at waynegg's - you've claimed scum after all.

[talah]

</3

why don't we just lynch one of the people who's confusing the shit out of everyone then

<3

We are.

[talah]

Oh yeah and I don't know if I mentioned it but I certainly alluded to it - I'm not tracker but I'm something remarkably similar which I realised when I checked my PM when mastin and I were talking just before he died. I'm still not using the ability tonight. At least, probably not.

Problem solved?
Content forthcoming?

[talah]

Oh god, I'm feeling bad for both of you for that conversation.

[talah]

I never unvote. It's a waste.

UNVOTE:

Nati, consider my vote proxied to you for now. I'm trying to keep up and read up but tbh I'm not feeling great about events elsewhere and am probably going to need a day or two to collect my thoughts.

A couple of current, mangled thoughts:

I get the argument for keeping pie around, I just don't want to be thirty pages behind if I take a day or two off. So that's probably selfish of me. I think Majiffy is probably town, and Waynegg is too, and they're probably mostly thinking multiball and associative tells - with the added bonuses of scum "assisting" with the SK lynch (ie identifiable after the fact) if that's the way it goes. I won't reiterate the argument for controlling at least one scum kill either way.

Just started a couple of ISOs and am thinking AGar is town as well. His change of heart about lynching Pie based on the nightkill result seems authentic too. Peregrine and I are on identical pages with Sakura's renunciation of Levi. Titus I actually don't have any problem with and thinking about it I think Kalimar's replacing might have been slightly town of null. Bit of a wait and see there.

I think if you eliminate everyone who has a decent rationale for being on the pie wagon, the remaining votes are likely to be scum. The only way that doesn't hold is if this is a single mafia faction including pie.

If you guys get a chance can you check out Sven's ISO as he can say he's town or scumreading just about anyone he wants at the moment and I don't know a lot about his town vs scum play. Will continue to read in a bit.

[talah]

VOTE: Svenskt

[talah]

Titus, that quote was where I had previously mentioned that Pie being group scum would actually be no problem at all, so I think that's a pretty bad point in favour of lynching pie. I agree with Nat, essentially.

I can't say I'm too passionate about Empking vs. Svenskt but Svenskt has this semi-natural feel to him that Empking doesn't.

Why is Svenskt town?
Why is it Empking vs Svenskt?
Do you expect an Empking lynch is on the cards? What's the argument for EmpkingScum?

[talah]

Why am I scum?

[talah]

@Mod - V/LA till end 1st Nov (back on the 2nd) - taking a break

VOTE: Levi

Holy crap Nati - I replaced your useless Nicol Bolas behind in Open 509 :)

I counted last night and have about 10 potential scumreads. Still unconvinced on Beli-town btw. Wouldn't let kayne pick the nk by himself tonight but would agree with Emp or Wake as targets.

Titus just fyi at the beginning of the game I had the greatest idea of running up flashwagons on scummy-looking (at the time) folk. Nati's taking responsibility for his part in events because he ended up picking the targets, but it was a pretty organic development. Pie sheeped almost every wagon as well, which seems more like SK behaviour than scum to me.

I'd like Beli's take on the M1 Astray claims Majiffy and I have made and also input from anyone who has mod-meta on Kdub as to how he has historically gone about balancing roles and fakeclaims.

Lastly - Pie, what level of flavour did you give for your Vig claim (a post link or quote would be good) and how was the fake claiming handled? As specifically as you can without breaking rules please.

Latez.

[talah]

You guys are assholes. If I didn't actually like pretty much everyone playing, I'd blacklist you all.

VOTE: Empking

Vig Levi. Or the other way around. Simple.

We have three associative connections now - talah/Majiffy - Sakura/Levi - pie/Pyro - and no useful roleflipping.

That's got to mean something.

[talah]

Do you have any scumspects Levi?

Why should I think you are town?

Do you think Beli's scum?

I'm thinking you're scum mostly because you've been ready to adopt other players' opinions quite easily, and you don't appear to be interested in scumhunting.

[talah]

What gave you your townreads on Beli and Majiffy?

What about kayne? Considering Majiffy/kayne are diametrically opposed I'd expect you would be at least cautious about one or the other.

[talah]

/inb4 AGar tells me diametrically opposed doesn't mean what I think it means

[talah]

Beli when he first came into the game, gave me a scummy read, I may or may not have said that. but as he talked and time went on it became fairly obvious to me that I very much think he's town.

I still don't understand why you're townreading Beli. If I was townreading him I could say "Oh it was this event I felt was genuine", or "I believe he is trying to achieve X and I can understand that".
So something more specific or tangible would be better for me to understand, s'il vous plait?

Majiffy's claim I believe as well as the way he plays the game and his frustration I remember from other games I've been in with him and its very much like his town play, so meta on that, and the same for kanye its mostly meta. though I do admit its a little on the lighter side that i'm running on, I still believe he's currently town.

Why do you believe Majiffy's claim?

[talah]

I'm not trying to get you mislynched. I'm trying to figure out if you're town or scum.

Beli seemed to me to be rolling/hating on me for no particular reason when he should know I'm a screamer in the early game.

I like your assessment of Majiffy, and what I was specifically talking about was suit abilities which I'd hoped you'd been following.

So you're in a neighbourhood. What are your thoughts on alignment of you two?

/questions cease

=P

[talah]

I personally don't see her as a complex manipulative player to have many layers so I feel she is town. I know I'm town, so I think we are both town. =P unless she's scum and playing me, but I sincerely HIGHLY doubt it. =P

you don't know her
<_< >_>
/runs

Lol, I think she's pretty complex but is also straightforward and an inherent scumhunter and so she's town in this game. Man - weird, I'm switching out on you Levi, reckon you might be town but please do a bit of scumhunting because otherwise you're basically an easy easy mislynch or misvig :s

Mmkay, Emp lynch and Beli vig.

(also would like to specify my role before night, so give it a couple of days out of the 17 left will you please?)

[talah]

You've been whimiscal the entire time.

That's just normal Nati, sadly.

[talah]

Oh. Talah.

That's just normal talah, sadly.

--
It's the insomnia.

[talah]

What happens if we lynch Empking and he flips Town, and then pieguyn kills another Townie?

Well, who's your strongest scumread after pie?
Maybe we could lynch them instead.

[talah]

Why. Dont. We. Just. Do. This:

Can you please imagine pie as Town vig, where we direct his shots for the night and go back to scumhunting.

Oh, I agree.

Keeping Pie alive means a destruction of days, or less discussion. What ever you believe theres no town motivation for wanting that.

I really mistrust that you're limiting your comments to game theory.
Or put another way, strongly supporting one side of an argument which should be put on hold for awhile.

[talah]

Aight hold up for a minute while I paraphrase my PM.

If I get NK'd I think it's important Town knows this role is in the game...

[talah]

So I'm Mayura Labatt and I pilot the M1 Astray.

Town aligned and only a suit ability which is 1-Shot Flight Rotor Shrike.

In night phases I can target another player and I'll be told if that player currently has the ability to kill another player (if successful).

Win with at least one townie, etc.

So that's kind of a modified gunsmith and has me trying to wrap my brain around its relationship with x-shot killing roles. Or odd/even killing roles. Because of the inclusion of

currently

.

Anyway, I still most likely won't use this tonight. We'll see.

ed: Titus I claimed in the first 10 seconds of Day 1 because I remembered this as tracker and thought it was a pretty weak PR and my best bet was to force scum to waste an NK on me (among other considerations). When I checked back later I was hesitant about actually clarifying because tracking, which might get a lucky hit on one player if they perform an action, is a different proposition from a gunsmith who has what - five times the chance?
So my main concerns now are redirection which would waste the one shot, and if I get jailkept and make the shot does it use it up or do I get a second chance. I haven't asked dub about that but will do before the end of Night. Not that I'd make the shot tonight anyway.

[talah]

I've asked the questions. Funnily Titus was my first instinct to check on, but.... pretty useless saying that now. Obviously pie is investigation immune.

^@PereV

[talah]

@Titus, do you think Empking's town? If so why?

I am super-fucking suspicious that you claim to have a nightkill as soon as I clarify gunsmith. And that you want to kill Wake by hook or by crook. I think you might be a good candidate for tonight's Vig now. I dunno. I've been sortof following but really haven't been "doing effort" for the last couple of days. But you've been turning the conversation constantly, unerringly, back onto the SK controversy in a much more insidious way than Wake.

--
Mod says basically there might be mechanics blah blah can't clarify, but standard jailkeep or roleblock would lose me the shot if I took it.

And the result essentially works on anyone who can kill if the ability's successful.

@Wake - any chance you could take a chill-pill on the holier-than-thou gotsa lynch the SK crap for a couple of RL days?

It's really distracting. And I want to see if Titus can actually scumhunt.

ed: Nati - grr.

[talah]

@Titus, do you think Empking's town? If so why?

[talah]

I don't think Empking is town. I said so in my last posts.

Nice facepalm.

So did your previous posts also explain why, if you think Empking

is scum

, why you never switched your vote onto Empking when that was the offered compromise, and are now convinced that Wake's scum and are voting him to compromise?

It doesn't seem to follow to me.

Empking's scum - don't vote Empking to compromise. Prefer Pie.
Hang on, Wake's scum. Compromise. Vote Wake.

[talah]

Now, that's the followup I was expecting.

Lynching Empking does NOTHING to stop this dragon knockout fight. Lynching Wake does. By lynching Wake, we finalize that we've chosen to leash the SK (provided the SK hits scum).

Your logic is flawed.

You would need to lynch / vig

practically everyone on Pie's wagon

for the argument to stop. Ultimately the only thing that might reduce the screeching is if pie manages to hit scum tonight. Even then, I don't think Majiffy or waynegg are going to give a crap about the result. It'll just reinforce multiball to them.

Why aren't you willing to lynch Empking?

[talah]

Natirasha can you PLEASE vote to lynch the SK? It might just keep some of the players in the game. This game might very well die if the mod has to run around and look for replacements in a game of this size. If the game dies, there's no way we can lynch the scumfucks. This is a shameless AtE. I know that.

Titus can you PLEASE vote to lynch Empking who you believe is mafia? This is a shameless Appeal to Logic. It might just put an end to all of this constant dross from yourself and Wake about hurrdurr maybe but only if we get what we want. Only if you get what you want to lynch your own scumread?!?

Sakura don't replace please. Take a day out, I'm on the same page as others with the value of extra town-selected kills. Pie's proven he'll shoot to order to save himself.

Lynch Emp. Vig Levi if you have to. I'd prefer Beli. Otherwise let Nati pick the vig.

[talah]

Ooohhh nice "vig shots" wifom. And I don't suppose you're travelling the republican path when it comes to "them", just like Kalimar took maters so intelligently into his own hands.

You know who else would have nightkills in addition to a daykill?

Geez, I can't even think right now. Might have to sleep on it and dream about the next thirty pages of running everyone in irrational bargaining circles.

Oh, the answer is a 1-shot scum dayvig.

ed: no that's right, Empking would be at L-2. And if you're actually not actively defending him, maybe he'll need to do something to save himself. And by the way, quickhammering is a scum claim.

[talah]

Lynch pie today.

he will atleast be SK, i might be right or wrong on scum, BUT all this shit will end.

Only if everyone involved in this shit is town. Otherwise similar bullshit bargaining about use of PRs is what I'd anticipate.

Come over to the Jedis Sven.

[talah]

^at the least if you vote Emp then Titus has no reason to struggle away from voting his scumread on the basis of "Oh it's useless, he wouldn't even be at L-1 if I voted him. Woe is me"

[talah]

^thanks.

Hoping Agar might supply intent.

[talah]

Just what you described. Representatives making choices.

[talah]

Okay.

Here's a somewhat lateral thought which I mentioned earlier, now with added explanation.

What we've seen is three sets of associations.

Majiffy/talah
Both Pilot the M1 Astray, with corresponding suit abilities claimed separately and non-conflictingly

Pyrotechnics/pieguyn
Have a 'mental link' which informs the other when certain action criteria are met

Leviathan93/Sakura Hana
Neighbourhood

So far we haven't seen any role flips which give us insight into PR/vanilla. At the least my own role details don't indicate that if I were to flip, anything apart from a name and town would be revealed.

Given that we know the alignment and claim of at least one of the players involved above, namely that out of Pyro/pie, pie's a serial killer, I'm wondering if these couplings both contain a townie, and a fakeclaim for scum.

I really don't know whether that's a good insight but it seems an obvious consideration. Perhaps Majiffy and Levi are scum - or would that be too game-breaking if Day 1 was a massclaim? /afterthought - maybe not if flips weren't indicative of the claim anyway?

^@Titus and whoever else

[talah]

Nobody's suggesting a massclaim. We have quite enough to work with right now.

[talah]

And there's no need to coordinate on kills. I don't care if you both hit the same scum.

I'm tending toward advising caution on your own action tonight if any Titus, if you are town.

[talah]

Sorry for sounding so egotistical btw.

[talah]

Wake im still waiting for that scum motivation behind killing AA9.

because she was so obvious town. THAT"S who scum want to kill. not the ones who could possibly seem scummy.

lelelelelelelel

Uh, no. She was lurking the fuck out of this game, and was never obvious town to anyone unless you would like to demonstrate this with quotes. Are you buddying/creating an association with Wake?

[talah]

uhhh you're still wrong. it doesn't matter if people lurk. lurking is NOT a scum tell. as i've said it matters on people's word usage and repetitious gameplay to decipher their alignment.

AA9 was the complete epitome of town like she has been in all the other games I've played with her. done the exact same. which is why was NOT on that wagon, because it was obvious to people who can actually search correctly.

I've had this argument before, representing that lurking isn't a scumtell. I was wrong.

Lurking can be a scumtell, especially if you're badscum and have a wagon on you. I've seen badscum facing pressure post just enough to avoid being prodded, usually with minimal argument and not expanding horizons.

Personality and experience makes a difference, sure.

But if you think AA9 was obvtown that's well and good but there are two things wrong with what you're saying anyway:
1) it's not whether *you* think AA9 was obvtown which counts, unless you're influencing scum
2) it's quite likely *town* would have lynched or vigged AA9 as things stood, and hey, look who copped a nightkill

So AA9's ISO should be pretty short, since you're saying she was obvtown it should be relatively easy to prove why. These vague meta notions rather than specifics aren't helpful when you're acting like either scum or lynchbait yourself.

[talah]

The point is, lurking is STILL NOT a SCUM TELL!

Yes, its true that a person who is scum can lurk. and therefore if a person lurks and you want to lynch them, and you do and they turn out scum. you will be like "oh my god, he lurked. I caught him. therefore lurking is a scumtell!" that thinking is TOTALLY false!

the thing about this game is that nothing is TECHNICALLY a scum tell. because BOTH sides can do it. that's the fact of the matter.
Personality and experience are what I majorly go off in a game. You may find me scummy, go ahead. I could care less. I've lynched myself many times to prove a point.

yes, her ISO is short, but you don't necessarily need a lot to read someone accurately. Especially if you've been studying people most of your life. I don't care if my notions ain't helpful to you. I play the game how I want and how I know how to get results.

I'm not saying that lurking IS A SCUMTELL. I'm saying that it CAN BE A SCUMTELL DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION.

In AA9's case the salient point is that she was going to be lynched or vigged anyway because precisely nobody except you and maybe one other random thought she was town. She was posting elsewhere but not here and came in saying she'd never catch up. Why would scum bother to kill that when town would have done the job for them?

So *yay* obvious town for you, easy mislynch for scum, so a particularly ridiculous scum nightkill choice, ergo was killed by pie who honoured his directive from kayne which was met with no resistance, and presumably one of the claimed PRs was targeted for a scum nightkill and was met with doc or jailkeep or something.

I have no fucking idea what your point is about AA9 being 'obvious town' especially since you're answering a question directed at Wake, and especially since nobody else thought it was true.

[talah]

similarly the kalimar and aa wagons were also real bad.

Sorry to interlope, but can you tell me the difference between an AA9 wagon (which is bad) and an AA9 vig (which you instructed pie to perform with "don't disappoint me").

[talah]

I don't understand what you just said.

Why were you for an AA vig but against an AA lynch. Is my question.

[talah]

I'm not sure the DrD wagon didn't end up being a policy wagon anyway. I thought he was scummy because he was popping in and because of a couple of other minor things early on, but if you're talking information based on that then you're not doing much with it.

Similarly the vig (well okay sk kill) - if it was policy then why aren't you drumming up support for what you think is a viable counterwagon on pie, since he did exactly what you told him to do. A couple of casual comments about how you're scumreading Deas, Pyro and Nacho isn't going to do anything but relieve heat on Empking.

[talah]

also why didnt you bring this up when i was cklearly opposed to the aa lynch yet settling for the aa shot before it happened ? if your answer is "LOOMING DEADLINE" then u may even have answered your own question w.o. reading my previous post. congratulations.

I didn't bring it up because I didn't disagree, and at the time you'd been rational enough to trust.
And whether the trust was well-placed or not it at least confirms pie as having followed what was at the time, town advice.

I'm not saying you were wrong, but when you come back in saying "the aa wagon was real bad", I sure as shit want to know what players on it you think are scum when you advocated the vig.

[talah]

Fair enough, I'll take that as "I don't want to answer because I realise that logically the next question is, 'who was scum on the Dolittle wagon' and they are practically the same set of players that were on the AA9 wagon"

And therefore there was no reason for you to say the AA wagon was bad but the vig was good, when the same sets of people moved from Kalimar, to AA9, to Dolittle - didn't they?

And the result of those shifts from your perspective is what, and why?