Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

I wish you guys would cool it a little bit. 40 pages already is a little much and I need a while to sift through it all. Give me a bit.

Yeah, I'm gonna ignore this game for a while.

[Nachomamma8]

Ok I was going to decide whether to claim miller or not after I'd read, but I see my predecessor already has.

Confirm I am miller.

You just scumslipped.

[Nachomamma8]

2 is also scum. I'm hungover, so reluctant to properly catchup in a lot of my games. I'll be around.

[Nachomamma8]

Your predecessor claimed Miller Tracker before he went out. I could see you claiming Miller as town Miller Tracker, sure. I could not see you playing the whole "I don't care if I'm lynched today" if you were also a power role on top of the miller aspect, though. I also didn't like that you had excuses for the late Miller claim after replacing in.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: 2

Andy is not scum.
I'll post more seriously here tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

ugh can't sleep yet. waiting for something. i guess i'll read to pass the time.

Nacho, you've really never specified your read on me.

So?

also feels like a major townslip.

yeah.

²: If it's ok, I'm going to read ² as one person and not two separate people. Same goes for Beast. ² is scum to me because he reads TD as scum with little to no base and seems to be ignoring TD's more towny posts.
Aj The Epic: Null-Scum. I perceive AtE in #945 but that's pretty much it.
Andrius: Null, lack of posts.
BeautyAndTheBeast: Town. Reading well and catching things and no scumreads as of yet.
BROseidon: No reads as of yet.
Cabd: Null-Scum, mainly for not specifying reads in #931.
dntfkingcare: Null, lack of posts.
Ghostlin: After an ISO after Varsoon's read, scummy.
GuyInFreezer: Town. No scumreads. I like you asking questions.
jon_h61: no posts.
Mac: Town for the most part, but look at his #811, #821, and #831. Detailed analysis AJ is scummy, waits for nacho to vote, then says he's "considering" voting as well?!?!?
Metal Sonic: Null (no posts)
orcinus_theoriginal: Town. No scumreads, and acts and reads town.
RachMarie: Agree with Mac's #1010. Seems to be ignoring large portions of the game.
Sajin: Null.
Svenskt Stål: Active lurking, seemingly. Active early on but quieter now. Lingering scumreads from the claim and such.
Nachomamma8: Null. Towny early in game, but I feel a little less so about that.
TiphaineDeath: Town, scummy early in game, but did a 180
TMTOLBTWNTOF: No comment
Varsoon: Null, I'm finding it hard to read him.

boooo
keep going, this isn't nearly enough

I will unleash high hell

To get this fucker varsoon lynched

Just look how inconsistent all his reads are

And oh my fucking lord this ghostlin push

Just

Nfkeood

GUYS

I have two sure scumreads.
If you try to derail them both, this game will reach 200 pages.

Careful, the last time you made a promise like this it didn't hold.

I also will never lynch you.
But seriously, keep me to that promise please because i'm usually right when i say things like that >.>

And you say I don't know you. I've played a very recent game against you as part as a hydra, you were exactly the same.

I think he's waaaaaay townier here.

Fire (with Nacho)

stfu aj that game is still ongoing

awww

Also, you and Nacho nailed Mac that other game IIRC. It would be nice to know what the two of you think of him this game.

there's no way in hell he's scum

[Nachomamma8]

3. Andrius
4. BeautyAndTheBeast (Majiffy + pirate mollie)
5. BROseidon
6. Cabd
8. Ghostlin
9. GuyInFreezer
11. Mac
13. orcinus_theoriginal
14. RachMarie
18. TiphaineDeath
20. Varsoon

I'm not lynching any of these people. Most of them I'm not lynching ever, but there's too many people in here for me to actually say that. I would like everyone in this list to focus in on each other if they aren't comfortable with each other, though.

[Nachomamma8]

Rach I guess is the weakest read, but it's a stretch to see her as scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't buy Nacho's assertion that it's a scum slip. What I think happened is he got to Page 1, decided to confirm the Miller part of the role before going forward and finding the Tracker part.

I agree with this. I used the words "scum slip" because I wanted to get an immediate response. I still find the slot scummy, though.

[Nachomamma8]

and i'm sure he
doesn't fucking care

[Nachomamma8]

4) I can see why you're thinking this, but turn the table for a moment. What would your reaction be if I ignored all of your questions and instead continued with finding scum? I'm pretty sure you'd assert that I would be trying to direct attention away from me. I trust that f and I will be able to find something if you'll just calm yourself and at least entertain the possibility that you're wrong with your current read.

I don't like that you finding something is hinged on me finding you scum because that's bullshit. You don't need room.

10) Alright, I can see that this is really bothering you. Here is how I remember it, but I might mix up details because I really didn't consider it that important. I was talking to f about reads on gchat. I read both of TP and Cabd as scum. I read a post in which you said one or both of them was obv town and I asked you about one of them. When I asked you about your reasoning for thinking that person was town, I thought we were talking about the other person, so when I went to ISO the person I was actually ISO'ing the other person. This should all be confirmable if you reread. It's better that you do it yourself because a) I don't want to and b) if I'm doing it, you're just going to think I selectively quote certain posts or something similar.

I know this. I'm not quite convinced that the reaction afterwards was coming from buldermar-town, though.

Also i'd like to redact anything I said about TMTOFETC regarding meta because I just realized that the game is still technically ongoing, and I apologize for that. Sorry all.

This slip shows that he's at least looking, which I appreciate and get a townread from.

@Nacho You are being to obvious with what your doing here. Thus no effect.

I know how to deal with these two, don't worry.

Ghostlin don't steal my thunder.
Go have fun with your other scumreads.
Varsoon is mine.

This post is even townier than all of GiF's other posts.

oh okay. that makes sense.

also feels like a major townslip.

It's a HARSH fucking townslip, especially since we can waltz on over to Cabd's site whenever the hell we like and double check what he's talking about. He is town, town, town.

/And varsoon has played with me before so why would he use that to incriminate me/

Why would he as scum, considering you lynched him last time and he was town...?

@TMT: tell me what you don't like about nacho.

The fact I'm pushing him as scum, probably.

help me understand why he's on your town list(and I, not)

okie

I understand why my slot is a problem for you guys. But you have to ask why as scum sven would first of all claim miller, then full claim miller-tracker for no apparant reason, and why I would come in and say stuff like "tracker role sucks" without having the means to back my comment up. I'm a lot more careful, at least I try to be, when scum. I tend to be haphazard when town, because I just post what I think and don't worry about how it's perceived by town. When scum, I read back my posts to try and make sure I'm not fucking up. Of course, this is self-meta, which isn't of any use to anyone who doesn't know my game. But jiffy is aware of my town game, and he knows I can be all over the place.

Please stop doing this. I recently started reading you as town, and it hurts that you do things like this to me.

[Nachomamma8]

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Forcing it into Black or White is really bad when Gray exists. I've also seen plenty of wolves claim miller and make it to a win in endgame, sooo...

I liked this. Paranoia of miller claims is good, and he's attacking Sven for forcing things into absolutes, which was one of orc's points and shows me he DOES have reasoning that speaks to him. Weak town lean.

If sven is town, mafia would be staying far away from this entire thing, IMO. Let us whip ourselves into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

I know for a fact that scum were sitting back while the Sven thing happened. This observation makes sense since it was only a few loud people railroading against Sven, and I don't think that Cabd-scum would feel the need to call out his buddies that quickly. Slight town lean.

Oh wow, Nacho, you've got me. I''m sitting back and taking no sides on this, I definitely didn't already vote for sven and voice an opinion.

And when I poked him a little bit, he expressed frustration which is nice because he DID take a position and he wasn't afraid to respond aggressively and point out to me and show that he did. Trajectory on this is pretty good too; he calls out Sven for his miller claim, makes an observation to cover his bases, someone misreps him and he's a little frustrated so he responds with sarcasm. Moderate town lean.

I just dislike excuses made on the fly where somebody claims "oh I can't post" and then they post anyways. Chalk it up to my own personal meta if you wish, but town doesn't do that.

I liked that he called Sven out for not being around, and I like his pokes on Sven because this was the point when Sven was unresponsive and pitiful. Slight town lean.

Is there some past history about policying rach that I'm not aware of?

His interest in this point is strange, but shows independent thought. He's trying to get a grasp on whether something is an inside joke or serious and he refuses to let it go; mollie did this with me earlier when I tried to dismiss her with a "buldermar would understand". Strong town lean.

What do you think of 2's AtE?

(Assuming you're talking to me)
You'll have to point it out, I must have missed it in the sea of 2 posts when reading.

I liked his responses in this exchange between him and I. Click the post link and read it; don't want to quote the whole thing here. I usually find AtE as something easy to pick up on and attack people for, and I thought that his responses to this sounded genuine and were consistent with the type of AtE he finds scummy. Moderate town lean.

I think everyone reading TMTOF ETCWTF as scum are basing it upon his past game where he did a similar kind of early posting, but eh.

This shows Cabd's follow up skills. He didn't know why people found TMTOLBTWNTOF scummy, didn't get a satisfactory answer when he questioned on it, figured it out himself. It wasn't accurate, but yeah I really liked the mindset behind this one. STRONG town lean.

My home site allows talking with your scum team in any method you wish, and gtalk is the most popular method. This was before somebody clarified that you are not allowed to do that here. I read it as "X told Y over gtalk to pick up their game" until it was clarified. So not a scumslip.

Town. As. Fuck.
Cabd faking this as scum requires him picking up on that comment, ignoring all of the hydras in the game, and picking up on an opportunity to townslip based on his previous site's meta. No way in hell this is faked, considering if he was scum before this point, he would show absolutely no foresight like this. STRONG STRONG STRONG town read.

Re: People who wondered how to read me

Most Recent Completed Scum Game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=25
Most Recent Completed Town Game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25373

And because I can be very, very paranoid, I followed up on his scumgame to see if I would pick up on it.
Still no foresight, attacked people for being anti-town and not being scummy.
And, as a bonus, he pushes a scumslip with a shit ton of fake aggression in that game because it was fake. In this game, he pointed out the scumslip, asked us to verify, but would have pushed the hell out of it if we said "oh wow good catch". Also strong townread. In addition, he's a hell of a lot more waffly this game, follows up on his own lines as opposed to "he's lurking. he did this anti-town thing". Also a STRONG town lean based on meta.

Hence his role in the town block. TD next, I think?

[Nachomamma8]

You do it to yourself. Fine you can be town. Do me a favor and get varsoon to answer my case while I am gone for memorial day weekend.

Will do.

Shall I just float by and say nothing? I couldn't give a crap if people read me as scum, it's not like I'm expecting to make lylo. People will know I'm town before it matters.

no just don't self-meta because it's stupid

@Nacho: what do you think of AJ, your scumread, pushing TMT, your other scumread?

It's strange. I think I feel more confident in AJ scum, but they could be scum together.
I'm gonna push 2 who I'm sure is scum and we'll see how I feel about those two after that.

[Nachomamma8]

mollie, please vote 2

[Nachomamma8]

also do you have problems with the townblock? I'm working on TD, Mac, and Rach at the moment.

[Nachomamma8]

Not really, I'm working on my townblock reads right now. Will you be around for a while longer?

[Nachomamma8]

I am, but I've never exactly caught him as scum before, so.

[Nachomamma8]

buldey wasn't in bureaucracy

[Nachomamma8]

yeah, but that was way fucking late in the game and i'm seeing different things completely here.
my experience with buldey is also a lot different than it is now; his playstyle is pretty powerfully different.

[Nachomamma8]

i'll talk about past experiences in a minute.

[Nachomamma8]

Wait, you wanted me to read on the first day? Bah.

I think

vote Nacho

is better really.

Fakeclaiming miller is a moronic and dangerous gambit that I have never actually seen a scum use, and that's in like 20+ games.

This is TD's response to orc asking him to vote Sven. While he could have sheeped, could have said "ok, cool", he looked through the thread again, found a better vote. Yeah, it's strange that he's voting for me and not for orc, but I like that he at least made an attempt on independent thought.

Huh, interesting.

unvote

Then, when I bring up evidence pointing out that yeah, fake miller claims happen, TD backs down completely. No fuss, no talk, no complaints. I liked that the unvote came so clean and so immediately; normally when scum get called out on something like that, there's a little more complaining before they drop it.

not feelin' it, I'll get to back to you with a vote when I am .

orc tells him to vote, he tells orc no.
fuck that.

My thought process here is pretty simple guys, I voted nacho because he felt opportunistic springing on something I'd never seen happen before, but have seen scum try to get a lynch out of. He proved me wrong, so I unvoted. Now I am going to revote because of the wifom shitstorm that sven has created.

vote sven

Vote doesn't come from pressure. It might be a not that original vote, but I definitely wouldn't call it a bad one. The WIFOM shitstorm that Sven generated from "I wouldn't do this, I wouldn't do this, I wouldn't do this" is pretty solid.

That being said, I don't really mind votes on him; he just seems like a slow start player in general, so I'll be much more interested in things once he posts his catchup.

This +

Now that I'm done yelling at the people voting me, maybe I can worry about the rest of this stupid thread.

I'll admit to some amount of skimming here, I'm doing my best to read it all, but honestly a day and a half for this much is not reasonable. My best work comes from re-reads anyway so I'll work with what I've got for now. Aside from the sven scumishness two things stand out to me from the rest of this, post number 588, and 742.

HEY
FUCK YOU GUYS
I AM TOWN, HERE IS MY THOUGHT PROCESS
ALSO I AM SKIMMING

TD's getting a lot of heat at this point, and the natural scum thought process is either to be pandering to everybody and answer the case on you in a well-reasoned way, let me defend him and hope that people buy it, or make up a shitty catchup post and defend yourself best you could. TD made a strong defense post, was like "I'm skimming but I'm doing my best", found scumreads, attacked them. I really, really like this post.

Town rage by 2.

I also liked this a lot. I've had a scumread on 2 for a while, I'm defending the shit out of him, TD dismisses my read nonchalantly. Slight town lean.

I will not lurk X_X.

No actually varsoon if you had continued to push me after that post of mine I would have felt much less certain of my read on you.

See when I specifically tell you doing something would be omgus, i.e something generally considered anti town and bad, if you are willing to do it anyway that probably means your read is real and you honestly believe me to be scum. When I confront you with that obvious setback and you drop it, it feels like either your read was weak in the first place or your read was fake. I'm going for option two here.

The "I won't lurk" response to me giving TD shit read very genuine on me, as did #1434 (his iso #17). In particular, "I won't lurk x.x" is his response to me telling him to "lurk so I can defend him" is pretty fucking nice; I'm giving him a free pass and he's just like "lol, no". That's a very strong indication of a town mindset.

12:17 A.M (I'll Iso Tiphaine)
12:18 A.M (Ok, I just isoed tiphaine)

Yeah, no.

vote metal sonic

I look at timestamps too, I noticed this same exact thing.
I very much liked this post.

I quite honestly have no idea what is being discussed here, and suspect about half the playerlist is with me X_x.

I feel ignored X_x.

Feeling alone, feeling ignored, more of a town mindset than anything. See: GiF and his "I feel alone" posts. It's a hard game to get involved with as town because of the mollie-me pushing 2 as scum for mostly meta reasons, but the fact that he is still pushing, still trying to get something done and picking up on good things is a good sign.

[Nachomamma8]

yeah, but that was way fucking late in the game and i'm seeing different things completely here.
my experience with buldey is also a lot different than it is now; his playstyle is pretty powerfully different.

I am not seeing what I am seeing in the jerome thing either that is what makes me hesitant and would rather lynch aj

i'll talk about past experiences in a minute
but his scum meta has evolved since then; did you check out the link to BSG earlier?

[Nachomamma8]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

No, but look at how he handles pushing ffery/Nero.

[Nachomamma8]

Next, Rach. I'm heavily relying on a game here since I read her wrong in Popcorn, but am figuring out where I went wrong with that specific read.

First of all, the read on me.

Played with Nacho loads and so far he feels pretty much his town meta.... Though he does have a tendency to replace into scum slots LOL... but yeah feels towny to me.

Ok guys n gals Nacho is definitely hitting my towndar...

So far Town reads : Nacho, Andy, B n B. Orc,

Read progression here is very natural. She had the townread on me originally, which is an easy one to pick up on which was exactly the situation in popcorn mafia. Then, she follows up on read later, strengthens it. Ending has me as solid town, no more waffling.

I definitely want to hear more from Nacho, he does have a strong record of replacing into scum slots....

Now look at Popcorn. Similar situation, this is literally the only time she gave a read on me and I was town as all hell. No development, no trajectory, none.

Also, it took her 22 posts in Popcorn to come up with a read, and her strongest scumread was on obvtown for "trolling". None of her reads had any sort of trajectory at all, and she just lurked through the game and coasted by on me defending her until she just stopped posting and I started dropping the townread. Here, she's been aggressive with reads, is asking relevant questions, is calling out OTHER people for inactivity... This is not anything close to her scumgame at all, and if she is town I will happily eat several hats until a hole forms in my stomach and I die from internal bleeding.

[Nachomamma8]

>.>

[Nachomamma8]

rach please don't make fun of me while i'm trying to defend you ;.;

[Nachomamma8]

rach you are a massive troll

[Nachomamma8]

Wait, who thought Mac was scummy?

[Nachomamma8]

@nacho: out of those lists I probably want to focus on cabd/TD/mac.

Tbh I think town mac and scum mac are same ;-;

hell no
in poetic justice he was a waffly piece of crap and here his posting is AWESOME

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry, got distracted with thinking about buldey/ffery. I'm doing Mac as we speak.

[Nachomamma8]

shut up buldermar i started reading you as town

[Nachomamma8]

i hate you so much but love you so much

[Nachomamma8]

why can't you be scum
i wanted to lynch you so badly

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, what do you think of my wagon analysis? (if you can put aside your idea of us being scum for just a moment and look at it)

- b

You'll find wagon analysis won't be as reliable when so much of the conversation has been dominated by us. Scum is not going to pick a side in this argument until they know what the fuck is going on. What do you think of my townblock (if I added you)?

[Nachomamma8]

why can't you be scum
i wanted to lynch you so badly

If you can't have what you want, want what you can have ♥

- b

i'll get you one day babe

[Nachomamma8]

Reading page 2 at the moment. Sven is pretty town: his reasoning is solid. He is NOT wrong in saying that even if someone claims Miller, if they are universally town read they will probably be killed, regardless of claiming Miller.

I liked this. It was an unpopular position, and it shows another form of independent thought.

WIFOM yay.

stop this please. it doesn't help.

usually when scum finds antitown shit like this, they go crazy on it. Mac did not.

I liked orc for town early on and think I still do. players like nacho, mollie & co are probably a lot better at reading him than I am but so far he's playing pretty similar to the poetic justice game that finished not long back. however I am unaware of his scum game as of yet so I'm not sure how comparable his town game is to his scum game.

that said, your attack is pretty brave since he's been townread by alot of players so far. does that make you town? possibly, it's very putting-yourself-out-there and it's not something I'd expect from scum. however I don't know your scum game. do you have any completed scum games I can take a look at?

I think the progression on this read great. Initially found Varsoon scummy, sees him attack an obvtown player he was afraid to attack before, has a little residue paranoia because he's unfamiliar with a scumgame.

actually that's a dumb question and should be ignored.

super fucking genuine.
I don't think that Mac would be this open about his thought process as scum, especially when he's facing off against the same group that just nailed him earlier

TD wagon.. hard to tell with TD. his sven vote is stupid and his "everyone hates me " post is stupid but I can't differentiate that between scum/dumb town play at the moment. Aj's vote on TD is a big misrep too, TD did not vote Nacho because "no scum would ever claim miller" but because Nacho felt opportunistic. I mean, yeah sure that is SO far from the truth about Nacho but that's a big stretch of a misrep. since then, Aj has tunneled the shit out of him and apparently believes TD is "conf scum" but how he came to this conclusion is anyone's guess.

And this is very, very solid. He's seeing things he could easily attack, picking up on it, throwing them on the table for observation and not attacking them.

Vote: AJ the Epic

Seriously considering this myself.

VOTE: AJ The Epic

TD, check the timestamps on this one. He saw my vote, was like "yeah, I was thinking the same thing", ISO'ed AJ, voted. I see no reason for a posture that you're gonna turn into a stance 15 minutes later, so this felt good to me.

I get the feeling ghost is tunneling me. like hell I'm "agreeing with nacho to look town." fucking ridiculous reasoning. Apparently to ghost alot of my posts "look town" but I'm still scum. I'm bored of him tunneling me already.

I tunneled the fuck out of him in Poetic Justice, as did Marangal. None of his responses looked anything like this.

Mac's vote looks bad. He presents a well thought-out case on me, then waits for Nacho to vote. I've got to run to work (I just needed to catch up before you guys let loose the flood gates) so I'll respond more to his post later.

just because nacho voted before me, doesn't mean I was waiting for him. regardless, nacho's a strong town read of mine so I'd feel pretty comfortable with him anyway.

This backs my original thought up, and the fact that he was like "no, that's not happened but even if it did I wouldn't give a shit". Beautiful.

why are you hanging fire?

I still don't think that should effect how cautious buldermar is. it's out of character.

You're going to have to examplify this, because I don't see it, and it looks a bit like a silly excuse to sheep mollie's tunneling.

- b

no. no it's not? you are usually an aggresive player and not afraid to throw out a scumread. you spent most of poetic justice preaching to the high heavens about how Majiffy was correctly scum. now, your scumreads are tenative, and you are making an effort to discredit me by lumping me in with mollie's sheeping which is completely untrue.

VOTE: 2

I am more than comfortable with this now.

p-edit: a little better. I'm still happy with this vote.

Fucking awesome trajectory in this vote, ffery back me up on this one.

[Nachomamma8]

Why is Varsoon town?

I'm literally too tired to explain another townread.

But I can urge you to join me on this:

Vote: AJ the Epic

[Nachomamma8]

Other games have calmed down for now. I'm going to spend tonight pretty much exclusively reviewing this game.

I'm excited for this. I'm going to wait for this. Meanwhile I'm going to keep working on my town block.
Orc?

[Nachomamma8]

@ nacho & mac

what would you do if I told you that I was now 95% certain that 2 is scum and that aj is their scumbuddy? would you trust it?

I'd trust you but I need a minute to recalibrate considering you fucked my read of them to hell and back
i was reading buldey as scum until very recently where you were like "no. i don't see what you see." and now you are going to a 95% read
you're killing me

[Nachomamma8]

Next, Rach. I'm heavily relying on a game here since I read her wrong in Popcorn, but am figuring out where I went wrong with that specific read.

First of all, the read on me.

Played with Nacho loads and so far he feels pretty much his town meta.... Though he does have a tendency to replace into scum slots LOL... but yeah feels towny to me.

Ok guys n gals Nacho is definitely hitting my towndar...

So far Town reads : Nacho, Andy, B n B. Orc,

Read progression here is very natural. She had the townread on me originally, which is an easy one to pick up on which was exactly the situation in popcorn mafia. Then, she follows up on read later, strengthens it. Ending has me as solid town, no more waffling.

I definitely want to hear more from Nacho, he does have a strong record of replacing into scum slots....

Now look at Popcorn. Similar situation, this is literally the only time she gave a read on me and I was town as all hell. No development, no trajectory, none.

Also, it took her 22 posts in Popcorn to come up with a read, and her strongest scumread was on obvtown for "trolling". None of her reads had any sort of trajectory at all, and she just lurked through the game and coasted by on me defending her until she just stopped posting and I started dropping the townread. Here, she's been aggressive with reads, is asking relevant questions, is calling out OTHER people for inactivity... This is not anything close to her scumgame at all, and if she is town I will happily eat several hats until a hole forms in my stomach and I die from internal bleeding.

Mac, here's Rach.

[Nachomamma8]

3. Andrius
4. BeautyAndTheBeast (Majiffy + pirate mollie)
5. BROseidon
6. Cabd
8. Ghostlin
9. GuyInFreezer
11. Mac
13. orcinus_theoriginal
14. RachMarie
18. TiphaineDeath
20. Varsoon

orc, this right here is my baby
who do you have a problem with?

[Nachomamma8]

@ nacho & mac

what would you do if I told you that I was now 95% certain that 2 is scum and that aj is their scumbuddy? would you trust it?

I'd trust you but I need a minute to recalibrate considering you fucked my read of them to hell and back
i was reading buldey as scum until very recently where you were like "no. i don't see what you see." and now you are going to a 95% read
you're killing me

like i usually let you read ffery when she is in game but you honestly can't go back and forth so much because it fries the shit out of my scumdar

[Nachomamma8]

but, to the extent I could discern a difference, it seems to be maybe lack of focus in terms of what he reacts to/presses on. he won at endgame as an arsonist in a recent game, which I thought was a hell of a game: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27065

It's not his not-town game that I'm focused on; it's his scumgame.

[Nachomamma8]

Problems with TD, and maybe we should cut it down to our six strongest. There's almost certainly scum in a block that big

ok then find the scum in the block.
I've explained my townread on TD; where do you disagree?

[Nachomamma8]

why did I not see that?

& what do you make of 1491?

and she doesn't even explain her read on you and I think it would be suicide for any scum to not read you as town.

I want to sheep you but that just seems weak.

It was the exact same in Popcorn Mafia; literally no one doubted me for a second except for her.
I'm going to get you one more point, but I have to do a little research to see if recent scumgame fucked it up.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh wrt town block

You, BB, GiF, Mac, Cabd, BRO,

Problems with TD, and maybe we should cut it down to our six strongest. There's almost certainly scum in a block that big

Also, please trust me on Andrius. Please.

[Nachomamma8]

But seriously I have town reads on too many people already I have to be wrong about something

once you drop this thought, you'll be a much better town player
drop it now. be right about everything.

[Nachomamma8]

I need to start viewing some of my town reads with more skepticism and you do too

I've done more reading for this game then I've ever done in a game in my life.

[Nachomamma8]

I need to start viewing some of my town reads with more skepticism and you do too

I've done more reading for this game then I've ever done in a game in my life.

I'm still not comfortable enough with a eleven person townbloc, sorry

I'm pretty sure those six (plus me seven) are town though, so can we start there and add people to the block as necessary

If you're not comfortable, talk about my reads. Where have I gone wrong? Which ones are you the least confident with? Why?
I don't care if you don't accept them, I just want you to find the weak points and attack them.

[Nachomamma8]

I know you are not going to like this but I really do think the 4th one is andy.

It's not.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: 2

[Nachomamma8]

Again, going to take another step back. I feel good about the town block.
AJ is scum. 2 is scum. TMT is scum. MS could be scum, Rev could be scum.

[Nachomamma8]

the only one I think you are wrong about it andy. do you want to ask me why

i suppose

[Nachomamma8]

Ok jon is clearly not scum, unless he's deliberately being quiet so he can pretend to have forgotten the game. No-one forgets a game in which they're scum.

Am I the only one that thinks this is suuuuuper scummy

Also GIF did you ask me a question that I did not answer
Also did anyone else ask me a question that I did not answer

yes, you can die

[Nachomamma8]

plz lynch in the order of aj <--- rev <--- and then hopefully you will get to the point where you will want to lynch andy. you don't have to vote him just keep the focus.

I won't be alive that long.

[Nachomamma8]

But if andy gets lynched, I will be very upset.

[Nachomamma8]

I know at least one of your scumreads is wrong because TMT has dropped at least 6 newscumtells.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: You say after I'm done with Varsoon, you would share the town thing that is not fake-able. Are you gonna do this soon or are you gonna wait till later?

god damnit

[Nachomamma8]

mollie, you still need to talk to me about andy

[Nachomamma8]

I did. I'm not responding yet.

[Nachomamma8]

Mollie.

[Nachomamma8]

If TownCabd truly felt the hydra had slipped, the following would have happened;
1) He would have placed a vote
2) He wouldn't have left himself an out.

That's exactly what he did as scum.
Your interpretation of TownCabd is flawed.

[Nachomamma8]

he is blatantly cosying up to you, parroting what has mostly already been said, said he thinks I might be competent, I mean who does that then sheeps my read. my first gut reaction was "scary scum will be impossible to get lynched" but I know we will need more than that.

mollie
when people call you scummy for buddying up to you, it's stupid because we're friends and we trust each other
andy and I have the same dynamic
he trusts you because of my interaction with you
if you lynch him and he flips town, i'm going to meltdown

[Nachomamma8]

I might be overly paranoid about andy. I get that way sometimes

thank you.

[Nachomamma8]

1. ² (buldermar + fferyllt)
2. Aj The Epic
7. dntfkingcare
10. jon_h61
19. TMTOLBTWNTOF

this is the list I want purged before anything else

[Nachomamma8]

people can be purged by death or actually doing something

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, I know for a fact you're smarter than this, but then you go around pretending that this isn't going to affect a scum night kill. What the hell, nacho? I expect town play from you, not that. If I didn't know Braveheart was scum, I'd be voting you for encouraging and not stopping that bullshit.

hahahahahahahahaha

[Nachomamma8]

I get the impression with all these "Lynch this order" lists of UN and his fucking with the town in Posh mafia. Let's not worry about that shit, you get one flip at a time and you move on. Telegraphing every person that you want dead is only going to cause the scum to kill everyone else, but congratulations on accomplishing that. The way you're negotiating lists to lynch feels very scummy. Why worry? Push a reasonable case, get the flip, move on.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Nachomamma8]

this game was FAAAAAR too tense for a moment there
it just got a lot lighter

[Nachomamma8]

AJ just lost his town read.

mollie please yell at majiffy more

[Nachomamma8]

(am I in your flowchart yet?)

awww gif
i'm gonna give my meta tell on varsoon out to you

[Nachomamma8]

AJ just lost his town read.

mollie please yell at majiffy more

ftr,

I

never had a town read on aj, majiffy did

that's why I'm telling you to yell at him
also I bet you that AJ wouldn't have tried to discredit me that hard unless my read on Andy was right
so

[Nachomamma8]

Actually, fuck outting my meta. Although one part is easy as fuck to sell.
Orc, have you read 3p LyLo?

[Nachomamma8]

TMT=Braveheart. The quote his name represents is from William Wallace.

How did you know this?

[Nachomamma8]

This is just my suspicion of a Posh mafia syndrome, not me attempting to 'assassinate townking'. That's garbage. But, you still don't line people up to have scum knock down everyone else.

It's a list of suspects. I do hope you've seen one of those before.

And where the hell did Andrius come into that? I've mentioned Andrius as town, and there's no reason to believe otherwise. Your reads are not an end all, and even as scum, my partners would have to handle themselves. I have enough shit to worry about that I wouldn't be worrying about my 'partners'.

ok

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho (or anyone) can you give me a link to an AJ scum game you think is relevant? I found an ancient one. His posts are nothing like in this game.

- f

His post right before this is pretty much him claiming scum. Feel free to disagree, but oh lord he is scum as fuck.

is a lie, with regards to the whole scumslip scenario.

Interesting. I'd love to see Cabd's reaction.

what does everybody think about this post

cos I think he put in his replacement request right after this

Sven siteflaked after this. I think he's town.

I haven't had a chance to play as mafia since a while ago.

No wonder your play as mafia is so obvious.

Do you think that jon is scummy or is this because of his lack of contribution?

Lack of anything townish at all.

Also, what happened to Sajin in your reads?

Sajin is still town, but a weaker townread that I'm keeping from the townblock.

...I do appreciate the irony in calling me #4.
Nacho might get it.

i might be slow on this one

[Nachomamma8]

I actually want to make a pretty case on TMT based on newscum I've seen before, but that takes research. Coming soon!

[Nachomamma8]

nacho. #1723. I'm worried

I saw it, was waiting for his response. Gonna follow up on this explanation now but it sounds genuine.

[Nachomamma8]

Could you link us to these quotes, Cabd?

[Nachomamma8]

i might be slow on this one

OHHHHHHH

[Nachomamma8]

Sweet, thanks.

[Nachomamma8]

Cabd's town.

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, I'm back. Should I try this on 2 or on TheReverend?

You fucking do that on us. We're the ones about to get lynched, not Rev. WTF IS THIS

Do it on someone not in my purge list and not in my townblock.
If you need them to be close to a lynch, save it for later.

[Nachomamma8]

And Nacho, you're reading us as scum so you can shut up too.

sorry, i thought i was just sheeping mollie
but if i can take credit for your lynch, sweet!

[Nachomamma8]

And Nacho, you're reading us as scum so you can shut up too.

sorry, i thought i was just sheeping mollie
but if i can take credit for your lynch, sweet!

You can write me a poem about how much of a fool you are when we flip town, how's that for a deal?

- b

can't do that here, sorry
only off-site or between hydra heads
i can write you poetry if you like though

[Nachomamma8]

Nothing. I was saying that I could write you a poem regardless of your alignment, not that I could accept the deal if I wrote poetry instead of a poem.

[Nachomamma8]

And Nacho, you're reading us as scum so you can shut up too.

sorry, i thought i was just sheeping mollie
but if i can take credit for your lynch, sweet!

nacho, buldey is in what we call at tr "eat a dick town!" mode. that is what he is starting to look like

hence my behavior towards him

[Nachomamma8]

letting me flounder around in old Aj games and having a shit read on us this game, I don't think I'll be weighing his read all that heavily wrt to my own reactions to TD's posts.

sorry. i'll talk about you with the meta read, but I was obviously interested in seeing if you'd come up with anything

[Nachomamma8]

i would love if we could have a read-meshing session soon, actually. i liked your meta dive on AJ so I'm gonna listen to you and troll buldermar. it'll be useless wheel-spinning if you're scum, but it'll actually help me out by leaps and bounds. don't shut down on me because i think you're scum since this is actually the towniest game i've ever played in my life so you know I have good intentions.

[Nachomamma8]

and i will always listen to you even if i have to lynch you
no matter what <3

[Nachomamma8]

the worst case is my list is horribly wrong
you can help me with that

[Nachomamma8]

MS is in the leaning town pile, I've thought a lot on TD but nothing to him being scum has sold me yet. What are your personal reasons?

[Nachomamma8]

I don't have MS leaning town. He's probably the weakest of my scum reads. buldermar's read is stronger. the observation about 30 pages in 15 minutes was a moment of whoa for me. I am a pretty fast reader, but I can't touch that reading a game thread.

He's not reading, but that's pretty normal for him.

[Nachomamma8]

buldey is ffery around?

[Nachomamma8]

She's on her way.

Why don't you want to play with me anymore?

- b

because you're in "fuck you" mode and ffery will be nicer to me

[Nachomamma8]

and i've been ignoring her a little, where i tried to reach out to you so many times and you never did what i wanted you to do

[Nachomamma8]

and i've been ignoring her a little, where i tried to reach out to you so many times and you never did what i wanted you to do

What did you want me to do?

- b

you don't want me to lynch you, right? do something that shows me you can't be scum.
make this game your highest priority. give me the best you've got.
you haven't done that. and you know that if you don't know that, i'm gonna trust mollie's meta read on ffery just as you would (or better, at least) trust ffery's read on mollie.

[Nachomamma8]

She's on her way.

Why don't you want to play with me anymore?

- b

because you're in "fuck you" mode and ffery will be nicer to me

I'm in fuck you mode too, actually. But, I probably will be nicer about it.

- f

cool give me a min and then this game is my last game for the night
gonna make the rounds one more time

[Nachomamma8]

i think i have done awesomely

i am almost lock clear

@Sven What does lock clear mean?

i think i have done awesomely

i am almost lock clear

You're also an outed power role for no good reason. I'm pretty sure you couldn't do much worse even if you tried.

- b

@2- I don't think it was played much differently in the theme game I linked where there was a miller tracker. You still think Sven scum, 2?

Unvote

fuck i hate that you guys can't take pressure

i am gonna deal with buldey.
i have been waiting for him to draw scum D1 for years and for years.
he can take me no matter how aggressive i get.

@Nacho You are being to obvious with what your doing here. Thus no effect.

Up to Page 10:
Var #136: That usually means there's a 50/50 chance you ain't town
Sven #139: Why would you ask the first question?
Orc #141: Yes. I will lynch half a dozen reaction test guy with you too. I fucking hate reaction tests.
Sven #149: If you've ever played with Nacho he's not acutally 'being bad at this' right now.
Orc #158: GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
Mac #161: This is true of almost every claim. If you're townie, you get killed. It's why Townie's can't afford to let themselves die. Why did you feel the need to post this?
TD #168: Someone asked you a question. Please answer the question. Plus, why did you feel the need to post this?
Mac #177: WIFOM is bad, but you not giving any sort of read is more bad. (Badder?)
Mac #179: You going to be this lazy during the game? Let me know know so I can vote you.
Fuck it.

Vote: Mac

\Sven, 187: WHY WOULD YOU FULLCLAIM NOW?
Mac, 188: ....Yeah, I still like my vote on you.
Sajin, 190: Was this an RVS or a serious vote?
Andrus, 199: GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
AJ, 201: The bad: You bothered to do setup speculation in a Large Theme. The good: The TD vote isn't bad if albeit predictable.
Sajin, 202: Seeing this is not a bastard, what's the use of this question?
Varsoon, 210: I don't like this post. I think it's the whole 'gee, it'll be hard to find scum' and the 'flipping based on information' bits.
Sajin, 232: I don't think you understand what the word 'Miller' means...
GIF, 239: Not sold on that.
GIF, 246: *Groans. Expects some sort of labyrinthine reasoning involving a scum slip, or simply not reading the thread.*

190: RVS.

202: Tried to get him to slip to death miller. Or maybe get faction name reveal if lying.

232: I probably understand more roles than anyone in this thread. Trust me on that one.

I prob should change my playstyle or something.

I'm going to bed now.

Hope sajin respond to me by the time I wake up.

I still think Sven's town. I can see why he phrased it that way.

@Sajin: You're probably scum, since you can't figure out anything from what I've posted so far and you're so quick to dismiss me as a useless fluffer of radio noise or whatever wiki-able word you're using this time. You've also been perched pretty conspicuously all game. Who remembers that Sajin is even in this game, off the top of their heads? Not I.
But, really, it makes me sad that you're so cruel, since I can only read you as a town jerk or scum trying to suffocate a weaker voice.


You're too infallible and it doesn't sit right. Town should be more skeptical of you.
Also, Orc, lighten up. It doesn't suit you to be so rigid.
Here is funny picture, maybe it will make you laugh.



P-EDIT: Serious bro, chill the more out.
I dislike how you'd like to see more from those on Nacho's town list, but don't mention me.
It's a real heart-breaker.


Also, I'd really like people to use the names of the hydras, rather than their owners'. It makes it less confusing for guys like me.

Eh a lot of people have a lot of noise in thread but you have a lot. Point in case: Random video link that does not even help make a point. I find day 1 high noise generators are likely scum because they are happy posting in the thread faking activity and not trying to figure out who scum is. There is your basic theory for signal to noise ratio being a scum tell. Your defensiveness to the subject and how I moved up your scumdar only earn you more scum points.

@Varsoon- Why did you self describe yourself as a "weaker voice". Can you explain what you meant by that? What makes a voice weak?

Ultimately, your play-style has been loud, but without substance. Your defenses seem more like backpedaling rather than standing your ground. The average user has posts about 10~20 times in this forum and you've made over 100 posts, and to what end?
You also support a really suffocating, elitist playstyle towards me, at the very least. I'd like to have a fun game with everyone in this thread, regardless of alignment, and it's pretty damn unfair how you've been towards me.
So, yeah, I hold a vote on you for personal reasons coupled with logical ones.
You're scum, through-and-through.

@Varsoon/everyone- I also find it hilarious that you mock me for making this argument on you and you make a similar argument on someone else. This makes me laugh.

11: RVS Vote
13: Why even say this? You're pressuring an RVS vote, I guess?
24: In response to what? You really seem to just be throwing a vote down to see what sticks, and this is the first of many. You bring up my sheeping as a cause to put votes on me, but this currently looks like a sheep of Nacho, if anything. You hop on the easiest wagon, which would be one on a D1 PR claim.
27 and post 29: You just seem lynch-hungry rather than actually trying to garner info. It's a lot of "What the Fucks" and "Don't Insult Us", rather than actual worth-a-shit town play.
30: Seems like you don't like absolutes. I'll point out every time you use an absolute from here on out, since you don't seem to think you're inconsistent.
37: "there is obviously a scum motivation behind a fakeclaim" -absolute. " I don't even know where to start in explaining how that doesn't work." -Absolute. It could work.
38: More of the same thing from 13. Now that you're out of RVS, it just seems like a thing you do. Of course, you can explain the wagons you don't clusterfuck over a cliff with "I supported wagons that weren't popular, see? I'm not scum!" Too easy of a break to give you.
57: Despite being so dead-set on Sven as scum, here you return to a player who hasn't even likely been online since your RVS push. It seems like a positioning tactic to come off as more consistent, but it's inconsistent with how you felt about Sven just minutes before.
58: Playing town.
68: Sets up lynches. If Sven is your scum-buddy, that is. If Sven flips town, then this just looks like town-positioning and even I've done this as scum.
81: "Name a Lurker", I really don't see any town motivation to amusing this sort of WIFOM coming from Cabd.
87: So, departing from the pressure that went nowhere and the Sven that you still think is scum, here's a GIF vote because he avoids hot-topics? What about the other half of the playerbase? Literally looks like a vote put on GIF for being active, hinging on levied offenses that are the very things that Orc is decrying in this post.
92: More absolutes, calls Cabd town and all that. Honestly, I've given up on stating every technically absolute thing you've said, but jeeze, man, c'mon.


Ug, I'm only halfway through this ISO on you and it's already a headache. Let's fast-forward:

108: Sonic vote again. Really wants this. Could literally be pressuring one of the fifty-two lurkers but keeps with sonic because town's consistent and Orc sure is town.
119: Throwing the vote around like it is RVS despite the game being 100 posts deep.
133: If the policy of Rach is a joke, it's one made in bad taste. Also, nice townlist. Should be a null-list.
141: Hey, nice to be in another game with you, I look forward to having fun and--oh, no, nevermind, you're a jerk. Refer to my recent posts on why this is a problem.
367: Talked about this already. The fact you keep an RVS-esque joke thrown down during 200 posts is really strange, given your voting methods so far and the fact you're so opposed to me/see me as scum.
436: Weak rationale on a weak vote on another new entry. Again, seem to be just tossing around a vote.
667: 200 posts later, a return to the TD wagon that didn't push itself enough, I guess. You never stay with any wagon, but seem to bounce to what makes sense at the time.
679: Am I supposed to read your votes as pressure? Why aren't you squeezing harder and on more questionable players? The most active players are Nacho, 2, and Sven, outside of you.

dntfkingcare
Sajin
TiphaineDeath
Andrius
Aj The Epic
Ghostlin
BROseidon 2
Metal Sonic
TMTOLBTWNTOF
fferyllt

These people all have less than 10 posts in a thread verging on 700 total.
Orc and pals, can you be less chatty?
Go talk to people in AIM or something.
It's literally noise -and- confusion, and it lets players like TD and AJ, who have been pressured fairly, just sit back and do nothing while others gab, waffle, and WIFOM the game into oblivion.

Right. Fake activity hunting. I have been part in a game that lynched the person doing this crazy amount of activity hunt day 1 and 2. You know what they flipped? Mafia (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=11674) . Fferyllt is not even part of the game and is part of the 2 hydra. Did you even read the names of the people you are acting like you want more content out of?

This game does not have an activity problem. At all. It has a Varsoon problem. Still happy with my Varsoon vote.

@everyone- Please work on lowering the amount of contentless posts in this game. There were several pages that I felt could of belonged in off topic, sheesh.

Varsoon, please respond to this post.

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, I'm ready. Gonna talk about AJ now.

[Nachomamma8]

Good night and good luck on your exams.

[Nachomamma8]

And good to know that you're always on my mind

[Nachomamma8]

i'm always on yours*
Sorry, Freudian slip.

[Nachomamma8]

You can go first.

[Nachomamma8]

hold on, just got an email that needs dealing with now :/

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, I'm ready. Gonna talk about AJ now.

Good. You said in post 948 that there was meta to your read but that it was mostly in thread. You want to go first? or me?

The meta in my read is not based on his scumgame, but his towngame. I didn't bother to read his scumgame because I thought he was scum mostly for setup reasons. Meta reasons is that he's not actually looking for anything this game. AJ's trajectory in his posts are the only way I can read him as town but here he's deathtunneling without really thinking about it. I can usually notice when he holds something in his head a while and comes back and posts it, but not really here.

[Nachomamma8]

you said that word and i loved it because it explains so much

[Nachomamma8]

I've been using trajectory to analyze series of posts for years. It's like pattern matching was before that. people usually decide what they think I mean and then go do something different.

You know what I mean by trajectory.

Good
Do you want me to write up a case on AJ's in thread posts?

[Nachomamma8]

@nacho It's dinnertime...so yeah. Do you want me to try the same when I get back? We'll probably focus on different stuff based on what I've seen in prior games.

- f

yes please.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm also gonna go over the people who are leaning town but not really town town yet.

[Nachomamma8]

And let's talk about TD some more because his recent posts are really really town even though I don't necessarily agree with them.

[Nachomamma8]

Too many bad posts. Voting Nacho immediately because no scum would ever miller claim? Bad. If you don't think scum would do it, they'll try it. Unvoting with "Huh, interesting". Also bad. Bad scum must die, and I wish I could do math with that name but I can't.

He had reasoning for the miller tracker being scum, but instead chose to attack "bad scum die". There's no reasoning whatsoever in there, and the fact that he pretty much ignores the miller tracker after this except for "you can be whatever alignment you want" was bad. It felt like he didn't care about sorting it out at all and was just avoiding the situation because he didn't want to take sides in it. Cabd, what do you think of this point?

Why are we still on the Miller/tracker thing and not lynching scum TD? I am very mildly put off that we have yet to focus the minute attention needed to lynch that motherfucker.

Let's face it, TD is scum. If you want Sven to be scum in your happy world, that's fine, too. But confirmed scum die first.

Weird as fuck post. Ignores literally everything and says that "oh TD is still scum", doesn't add to his case or refine his read. I would expect town AJ to pick up on all the shit that happened, not just dumbtunnel TD.

You know, I was kind of upset about this, but then this:

REALLY pissed me off. How the actual fuck is that guy town?

This is not how town tries to sell a scumread. He's angry at being scumread, but that doesn't make sense considering he had not done JACK AND SHIT up to that point and he really shouldn't expect otherwise.

Post 52: The logical fallacy of "Scum would never do that and in my might 20 games, I've never seen it!" Bad logic, and if that was the case, scum would claim that shit all the time. Doesn't take a genius to figure out scum does what town is willing to give town points for.

Post 99 an unvote off of you, stating "Huh, interesting". No reason. Trying to get off without specifying what changed the opinion.

Post 278 votes sven (The "Can't be scum" guy) saying that he's done a 'shitstorm of wifom'. Guess what? That's what you get with ANY miller claim.

All of this is surface scumhunting, which is pretty much useless. AJ's not a surface scumhunter at all.

Nacho is the town-Venmar this game.
Orcinus is running in fucking circles at the moment. Varsoon is running in ovals. Varsoon was way too quick to back off his case for Orc, but even stranger is that Orc didn't hammer on Varsoon for completely disregarding orc after about 4 posts (even though he went through all that trouble for an incredibly long wall). Even worse, Orc backs off his own vote.

To be honest, I've learned from past that orc can have his say, but don't give him too much weight. It can result in catastrophe. So even considering him a 'town leader' (What, by posts? Definitely not by flips...) is presumptuous, Varsoon.

Mac is his general passive self, but that's not going to help this day.

Sven can easily be any allignment he wants to be. Give me the guilty results I want as a tracker and I'll consider your claim legitimate... Maybe. A miller doesn't usually have a secondary role. It sounds like a bail out of a wagon.

Discredit nation here. I don't like how he sort of attacks orc but not really; it lacks the balls of Varsoon's attack on him.

I'm not a perfect person... There's many things I wish I didn't do. But I continue learning~~~ I never meant to do those things to you!!

I should've said "Both of them are town, so the argument over them bickering over past games is not advancing our cause".

Dismissal of you and mollie in a TvT fight was a strong scumtell for me. Focusing on arguments and not on players, but worse yet the fact he just said that you two were both town instead of actually trying to explain his reasons was scum because it shows he doesn't care about the reads at all, just getting it out there to either discredit one of you or white knight.

Unvote

There was SOMETHING in that last ten pages that made me look back on TD a little differently. (Posts 962 and 970 of his, I believe).

Talk about shitty trajectory. You'd think town AJ would want to explain his reads switch, but NOPE.

I wish this read (On TMT) was easy to explain, but it isn't. His question to post rating is really high and content to post is really low, even when he got relatively active. Reading his iso is like reading his posts for the first time, none of them were memorable. He's flying under the radar flak of Ghost and 2 (and maybe varsoon). His list of reads felt forced, mainly because 9 null reads, not including Jon (who hasn't posted. That's 9 of 18 (Minus two for him and jon) are null to him.

NOW he's trying to explain his reads, cool. This read feels weaker than his TD read because of the way he was pushing his TD read, and the fact the read itself is hard to explain is strange. TMT was an easy read for me, and I thought that AJ was trying to give up a weaker scumpartner to save the giant of the scumteam which i assume is you. But even if that's a wrong assumption, it's strange that he picks out TMT and lets TD go for reasons~

I WANT to call orc scum, but he's just a general AtE player. I dislike his constant use of emotion, but that's more standard. His MS voting at the beginning was awful and his attacking Varsoon was backed off too early when he should've pressed forward. But otherwise, there's been nothing to give me more than casual passing glances of suspicion.

Discrediting orc.

2 is much more interesting. I've liked Buldermar's posting, but fferyllt seems scummy. Fferyllt asks a lot of questions and seems more or less passive and under the radar while Buldermar goes out and tries to push points. Just by their style, Buldermar makes statements to prove points, FF asks questions as a way of hunting, but doesn't push it beyond. Buldermar attacks, no matter how he makes others feel. Surprisingly, when FF comes on and sees tmt's reads, she doesn't mention anything to it in her quote other than it's 'good to see him posting'. The "That's all but a confirmed slot" from FF, even off of meta is bad. Something is rotten in the state of Xenoblade, and I think FF may not be hiding it all that well.

Waffles hard as fuck and kind of postures to distance from you/hop on the wagon.

I get the impression with all these "Lynch this order" lists of UN and his fucking with the town in Posh mafia. Let's not worry about that shit, you get one flip at a time and you move on. Telegraphing every person that you want dead is only going to cause the scum to kill everyone else, but congratulations on accomplishing that. The way you're negotiating lists to lynch feels very scummy. Why worry? Push a reasonable case, get the flip, move on. Nacho, I know for a fact you're smarter than this, but then you go around pretending that this isn't going to affect a scum night kill. What the hell, nacho? I expect town play from you, not that. If I didn't know Braveheart was scum, I'd be voting you for encouraging and not stopping that bullshit.

This is why I'm happy with paranoia as a towntell. Because when it's faked, holy fucking shit does it stand out.

There rest of his posts show a distinct lack of not-tunneling, which definitely isn't normal AJ town. There's also him refusing to work with a single townread which is weird as all hell; literally everyone works with townreads to some extent except for vets that think townreading is for chumps because they are batshit insane.

[Nachomamma8]

12. Metal Sonic
15. Sajin
16. TheReverend Svenskt Stål
18. TiphaineDeath

the "need to sort out list"

[Nachomamma8]

Varsoon is there anything you're not hesitant about? Talk to me about your reads while I'm working on this.

[Nachomamma8]

2 still.

[Nachomamma8]

^

Agreed.

Sort of liked this post because it was a connect with someone else who trolls around a lot.

nacho town

freezerguy town

orc town

vassoon town

beautybeast town

mac town

tiphaine scum

sven troll

varsoon still town

cabd quite town

ghostlin leaning town


rach town

sajin leaning town

aj the epic leaning scum

broseidon leaning scum too i guess

I'll give reasons after the posting dies down. 50 pages(1000+ posts) in 72 hours, please no its torturous



2 getting scummier

aj leaning town now

ghostlin town

mac stil town

reverend a+ slip contradiction strong

beast leaning town

andrius town

also good luck with reading john or whoever had to read 50 pages

cabd and guy in freezer very town right now

ok i just iso'd tiphaine

except for #901
the rest of his posts are shit

yep scum

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

TMT is a null-leaning-town

except for his atrocious name

andrius town

broseidon leaning town

ghoslin leaning town

2, nacho varsoon cabd strong town

What I see here is a blatant, blatant lack of opportunism. I think scum in Ms's position would be a *tiny* bit opportunistic, but nope.

[Nachomamma8]

p-edit gah many posts. will look at them later.

a lot of this is summary and not motivation seeking; could you refine that post a little bit?

[Nachomamma8]

24 hours and it is from page 1 to page 31

Damn it.

I skimmed the whole 700 page of wall

god damn 16 pages in 8 hours

I'll give reasons after the posting dies down. 50 pages(1000+ posts) in 72 hours, please no its torturous

3 hours and only just 1 post

we're making progress!

This is definitely the feel of a townie who is struggling to keep up with the thread. I can see scumSonic left behind in thread and annoyed about it, but I'd expect him to use being behind as a bit of an excuse, but he hasn't at all ever. He just complains because the game goes too fast.

[Nachomamma8]

if you had really isod him instead of "hey man isos arent so fast even if its a 5 page children's book with shitton of pictures!"

you'd realise it only takes a minute

yeah i'd get frustrated if i was getting attacked for something like that too

but nacho and cabd makin up shit so yeah

td can go iso himself

and not afraid to attack other people when he feels that it's a bad attack, so yeah i like it.

there's a secret reason that I can't talk about yet, but he'd join the townblock if i could talk about it.

[Nachomamma8]

What do you think of his interactions with you? I'd certainly call you a strong voice even though we've been hammering at you all game.

[Nachomamma8]

varsoon where the hell did you go?

[Nachomamma8]

OK. I'm happy with our AJ talk. If there's anything else you want from me, let me know, but now let's talk Metal Sonic.

[Nachomamma8]

I would always criticize miller day 1 claims. I also wanted to know whether he investigated as a specific anti town faction name (the win condition leave open scum multiball possibility). I have also encountered a faction specific miller in a theme game before (Kingdom hearts mafia: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=12809&start=4275 check role pm 13) Coincidentally that miller was a town miller tracker. Go figure. The miller player was a strong asset to the town in that game (not by night actions, but by day play) and I would like to give Sven the same chance.

This post was awesome as fuck; I loved it. I think that way that he handled the miller claim was better than what any of us did, honestly, and I like him treating me like a petulant child while he did his own this. His questions, while not horribly significant or ridiculous, were also a good followup to him urging to look elsewhere; that attempt to get people talking about other things felt valid.

He even implied you would have to take one you probably would not like (miller) with the one you would like (tracker). I don't think it was a tell at all and is weak reasoning. Additionally it actually makes a lot of sense as it shows me his frustration at the heat a miller claim brings but also acknowledges it as a "cool role" at the same time. That post is one of the main reasons I suspect he is town.

This makes a lot of sense, actually.

@Nacho You are being to obvious with what your doing here. Thus no effect.

I liked this post too.

232: I probably understand more roles than anyone in this thread. Trust me on that one.

And this one. I danced around like I was the king of setup spec in Poetic Justice when people weren't listening to me, and him standing behind it the way he did is nice.

Really Nacho? Are you town this game?

This is the type of "confronting town leaders" I really like. Not discrediting, but picked up on me playing up the Miller Tracker biz for reaction's sake and immediately attacked me on it. Consistent with him being a little behind, picking up on me overplaying the whole situation and attacking me for it despite "Nacho is town" on pretty much every other post. I liked it a lot.

You do it to yourself. Fine you can be town. Do me a favor and get varsoon to answer my case while I am gone for memorial day weekend.

Liked this too. Seriously doubt it's coming from scum.

A little too tired to give him the proper rundown, but pretty much the only thing holding me back from putting him in townblock is being caught up. Get caught up; your posts this game are good and I need your perspective a little more.

[Nachomamma8]

So the discussion was useful? What did you get from it. I still feel like it's inconclusive. It's the sort of case I would vote on as the clock ticked down if I didn't have a stronger case on someone else in hand.

We see different things, of course. I was afraid there was something that made him town that I just wasn't seeing, but calling him town for attacking town leaders early isn't necessarily the best thing to do when their reasons are shit. It reminded me of our limited interactions in Fire, and I'm noticing a bit of a smoking gun that I can't really discuss, unfortunately.

[Nachomamma8]

Orc, I would maybe like to move Rev into townblock, but I want to discuss him with you.

[Nachomamma8]

good/bad?
I've really clicked with his posts lately.

[Nachomamma8]

1. ² (buldermar + fferyllt)
2. Aj The Epic
7. dntfkingcare
10. jon_h61
19. TMTOLBTWNTOF

i'm taking out dntfkingcare and leaving him in the "to be sorted pile"

[Nachomamma8]

I kinsane see some scum influence on a few players here

killkillkillkill

And let's talk about TD some more because his recent posts are really really town even though I don't necessarily agree with them.

idgi

i've sold many people on this, but i don't think i'll sell you

[Nachomamma8]

Busy until tomorrow

[Nachomamma8]

Pseudonym

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: AJ the Epic

[Nachomamma8]

You lied about, at the very least:

1) Nacho thinking we're scum when he is in fact just sheeping you.

2) You not having mislynched me before because of your excesssive tunneling.
3) You thinking that I can't simulate scumhunting as scum.
4) You claiming to not have lied about anything.

That's four lies so far.
1) Will be proven once Nacho gets back.
2) Is proven by the links I've provided.
3) Can be proven if I find the specific post - for now you'll have to do with the game subsequent to which you made the comment.
4) Is proven by at least 1 of 1-3 being proven.

buldey you dick

[Nachomamma8]

could everyone do me a favor and not apologize to mollie anymore please?
i only want to have to put up with like a page of gloating as opposed to 10.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, yeah I attacked Orc for being an AtE player. But that's a true part of his process. There's nothing denying that. Other than that, I'm sorry I'm having a shit game. Not going to go into preservation mode.

I would like to point out (Actually, it wasn't really planned) that while I was gone, you may have talked about me a lot, but you generally stuck away from voting for me simply because I hadn't posted at all (exception: rach). This is, unfortunately, happening with the only confirmed scum player in this game, TmT.

I didn't vote for you because I was voting 2 for scum. I would vote you if 2 wasn't scum in a heartbeat. As soon as I saw the thread I got a smile on my face because I knew you were going to die today and I knew you were going to flip red. You're done.

If Nacho remembers, the reason I got a hydra with him in the first place is because I have issues in large games. This is how I play large games, I try to find one or two people and go from there because I can't manage all 20 in my head. This is why I'm going after one at a time. In a 9 player game, i can find scum easily because I have an easier working to go through. I think in pictures and visuals so generally I look for a web of connections. That's a challenge in a 20 player game. (And it doesn't work when half the game is quiet). That's why I tunnel.

Your play hasn't been a problem of picking up on limited people; it's a problem on picking up on them badly. You literally tried to sell me that 2 was town because she copy pasted my reasoning. That's a horrible, horrible interaction with a buddy and you knew it. But you tried to save them because the read is too personal to understand and they weren't getting many votes and you don't have a handle on the flow of this game. You're out of step, out of rhythm. You can't keep up with my drumbeat because I'm going fucking insane, and I'll mow through you scum like a machine.

2 is town. That last discussion with nacho cemented it.

Nacho, your points were almost mirrored

. Get over it, that read is wrong.

heh

that is not and should not be a point that pushes his read of us townward.

- f

nope not fucking at all

Gotta be sure of things.

I got dragged away yesterday and had to do a lot of yardwork and visiting with relatives.
Today'll be busy in the afternoon, I imagine.


Scum reads?
2, AJ, TD, B&B, dfc, Keyblade, and TmT.

talk to me
i love you but you're all over the place and i need to get you centered

'm doing a complete re-read of the game, so some of this may be a repeat of things I or others have said, but it's my own take on stuff.

This post is a treasure trove of greatness and wonderfulness and it brings tears of townie happiness to my eyes.

Voting AJ and proud of it.

Sorry about yesterday but let's kill him now. Let's slaughter him now.

You have no opinion about Orc, Nacho, or 2?

Like, the three most active players?

hence why keyblade will be next

Haven't paid much attention to Orc or 2,, but Nacho literally always plays the same from what Ive seen. So nulln o him

No, fuck no.

In fact, out of the active players, I'm so sure that Nacho, 2, B&B, Reverend, and Orc are town that I'm actually willing to doubt them because they've so perfectly played themselves into that bracket.

you can start sheeping me now

Nacho how do you see between real and fake paranoia?

Scum paranoia has bad trajectory, doesn't make sense, can come from any player, always has excuses because this paranoia is happening for a reason to serve scum. In this case, his paranoia was to discredit me, AJ doesn't get paranoid with me taking control because he fucking knows I do that, trajectory was shitty because it came out of nowhere, excuse was that UN took control of a town in Posh Mafia. He also backed the fuck up on his paranoia and started appealing to me like I was town, which is also bad trajectory.

Town paranoia is like a monster. A big, vicious, irrational monster. It's a monster that starts small if it's about a specific player, and immediately if it's about setup/wrong number of scum some shit like that. It usually comes from nowhere and rampages through the thread for a little while until the townie realizes he's talking nonsense or it possesses him (bad players). That weak paranoia shit wasn't that.

He has defended with insults and deflected with weak return attacks. This is in stark contrast to his attempts in his first game, where he defends with honesty and humility.

Varsoon is scum.

Varsoon's play has shifted a bit and he's still super fucking gambit happy but I see the difference and am watching him today, Rev.

It also feels like I'll never be accepted as a member of the team.
Weakest link, third wheel, etc.

I'm fighting for you but this is that super genuine shit you were seeing in the other game. They just need you to show them what to do because they are paranoid fucks.

2. Aj The Epic: f would settle for a lynch of him, but prefers TMT or TD. f also ended up agreeing with Nacho on most of his points in his case, but doesn't feel like it's a super strong case (I havn't read it). I personally think he'd have to be a really strong scum player to play this way as scum, because he's paying attention to a lot of subtle things that couldn't come from figuring out whose mislynch to push.
3. Andrius: painfully town in f's opinion (which I sheep).
4. BeautyAndTheBeast (Majiffy + pirate mollie): obvtown for both of us.
5. BROseidon: f reads him as town for meta reasons. I'm not as convinced but I'll trust it.
6. Cabd: We both think he's town; f is weighting in Nacho's opinion as well.
7. dntfkingcare: null
8. Ghostlin: f is leaning town and liked the progression of his questions.
9. GuyInFreezer: town
10. Keybladewielder/jon_h61: null, but f thinks his reads sucks (and I think he's not reading at all)
11. Mac: town
12. Metal Sonic: I'm leaning scum
13. orcinus_theoriginal: town
14. RachMarie: neither of us can read her
15. Sajin: leaning town (f's read)
16. TheReverend/Svenskt Stål: town
17. Nachomamma8: town
18. TiphaineDeath: scum
19. TMTOLBTWNTOF: scum
20. Varsoon: I don't know but f thinks town. Also, if there is daychat for scum, that essentially confirms him as town because of him not being stopped prior to attempting his gambit (we don't think it could have been fabricated deliberately).

this is a treasure trove of love and happiness and varsoon town
mollie do you see it?

o give an example, last night before I went to sleep around 8 AM, I finished the last about a fifth

my mind stopped here and I was very impressed for a moment because you didn't strike me as an alcoholic
and then the world became clear

This is what my relationship with Nacho is. He reads me 100%; if he's scum I will probably never know.

That's how things should be.

so let's chat and enjoy a sunny day well I am just loving this breeze what do you think. let's get close. let's get real close. like I want you to push my limits.

he will, i promise

Town
Nacho, B n B, Andy, Orc, and Var

Leaning Town
Ghost, Cabd, Mac, Bro dude

100% agree about nacho. let's spend the rest of the game trolling majiffy by pretending that is the only thing he said.

The paranoia is OK because this is literally the best game I've ever played ever.

Nacho being accepted into a town bloc probably means he is town.

I would appreciate if Majiffy and Mollie could sign their posts for BnB. Would help me personally.

venny is town
if you quickhammer before I return next time, i will cry tears everywhere

Okay. Talk to nacho, confirm it, because I won't sign up to that wagon until I'm sure that you're sure. It's nothing personal mind you. I just really don't want to rush into this. What do you/nacho have on AJ/2 that you CAN tell us?

THIS is town paranoia, GiF.

Beauty and the Beast is really really really really really really town btw. Meta+content.

I also think fery is playing with a scum role pm this game. I can't read the other half of the hydra but I do not think this is fery's town game. Way too defensive on various topics for me to think it is a town slot.

This is Sajin's town. It's late as hell, but it's also fucking accurate.

Nacho, where are you? (Is Nacho on VLA?)

no just drunk

[Nachomamma8]

unsure on andy. more dancing required.

it is your job to dance with him until the sun comes up

AJ is town.
Deal with it.

noooooooooooooooooo

I don't like sajin anymore

fuck u orc

yaaaay,
The day is over,
now I can sleep.

this was the towniest thing i've seen ever

Wow... I wake up to this.

Um. I really hope you're scum and I just read you wrong 2...

this is also very town

Zanza, Bionis Aligned Ability Cop,

welcome to
ZANZABAR

[Nachomamma8]

mac was town

if that was a vig shooting then they are confirmed retarded

miller kill

[Nachomamma8]

Low blow and a lie there buddy
Nice try though!

My reads have changed considerably. It's amazing how 2758 posts will do that, jeez! I don't think I should do any voting without my other half's agreement.

stop discrediting him that's what ffery tried to do as we threw her into the sea, and that did not look so good for her

[Nachomamma8]

What you are reading is how abrasive my playstyle can be and because it is different than how the average player plays town you assume he must but be opposite of what the average player is (town) and is therefore scum. If that is correct, then please talk to nacho or someone else and get a reason from them. If that is not correct, feel free to ask me some questions.

Your also wrong about varsoon.

SO FUCKING TOWN
I love it man, I love it.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not sure i'd actually go and vote for spinach tho. Wayne is like one of those rednecks that sits in their front porch with the shotgun loaded and the safety off. Trusting nobody, doubting everyone. So he goes null because BRO makes a good case.

I can see that. I know someone like that and I know him pretty well. We'll see if his paranoia makes me smile.

[Nachomamma8]

SAD

[Nachomamma8]

No fucking way waynegg would be scum and forget mac is dead. He'd have read the shit out of his quicktopic. Twice for good measure.

Townslip

why did he have two reads lists made up?

[Nachomamma8]

Why is AJ scum? I'm missing something crucial here.

hold on my ISO is literally too fucking long

[Nachomamma8]

Too many bad posts. Voting Nacho immediately because no scum would ever miller claim? Bad. If you don't think scum would do it, they'll try it. Unvoting with "Huh, interesting". Also bad. Bad scum must die, and I wish I could do math with that name but I can't.

He had reasoning for the miller tracker being scum, but instead chose to attack "bad scum die". There's no reasoning whatsoever in there, and the fact that he pretty much ignores the miller tracker after this except for "you can be whatever alignment you want" was bad. It felt like he didn't care about sorting it out at all and was just avoiding the situation because he didn't want to take sides in it. Cabd, what do you think of this point?

Why are we still on the Miller/tracker thing and not lynching scum TD? I am very mildly put off that we have yet to focus the minute attention needed to lynch that motherfucker.

Let's face it, TD is scum. If you want Sven to be scum in your happy world, that's fine, too. But confirmed scum die first.

Weird as fuck post. Ignores literally everything and says that "oh TD is still scum", doesn't add to his case or refine his read. I would expect town AJ to pick up on all the shit that happened, not just dumbtunnel TD.

You know, I was kind of upset about this, but then this:

REALLY pissed me off. How the actual fuck is that guy town?

This is not how town tries to sell a scumread. He's angry at being scumread, but that doesn't make sense considering he had not done JACK AND SHIT up to that point and he really shouldn't expect otherwise.

Post 52: The logical fallacy of "Scum would never do that and in my might 20 games, I've never seen it!" Bad logic, and if that was the case, scum would claim that shit all the time. Doesn't take a genius to figure out scum does what town is willing to give town points for.

Post 99 an unvote off of you, stating "Huh, interesting". No reason. Trying to get off without specifying what changed the opinion.

Post 278 votes sven (The "Can't be scum" guy) saying that he's done a 'shitstorm of wifom'. Guess what? That's what you get with ANY miller claim.

All of this is surface scumhunting, which is pretty much useless. AJ's not a surface scumhunter at all.

Nacho is the town-Venmar this game.
Orcinus is running in fucking circles at the moment. Varsoon is running in ovals. Varsoon was way too quick to back off his case for Orc, but even stranger is that Orc didn't hammer on Varsoon for completely disregarding orc after about 4 posts (even though he went through all that trouble for an incredibly long wall). Even worse, Orc backs off his own vote.

To be honest, I've learned from past that orc can have his say, but don't give him too much weight. It can result in catastrophe. So even considering him a 'town leader' (What, by posts? Definitely not by flips...) is presumptuous, Varsoon.

Mac is his general passive self, but that's not going to help this day.

Sven can easily be any allignment he wants to be. Give me the guilty results I want as a tracker and I'll consider your claim legitimate... Maybe. A miller doesn't usually have a secondary role. It sounds like a bail out of a wagon.

Discredit nation here. I don't like how he sort of attacks orc but not really; it lacks the balls of Varsoon's attack on him.

I'm not a perfect person... There's many things I wish I didn't do. But I continue learning~~~ I never meant to do those things to you!!

I should've said "Both of them are town, so the argument over them bickering over past games is not advancing our cause".

Dismissal of you and mollie in a TvT fight was a strong scumtell for me. Focusing on arguments and not on players, but worse yet the fact he just said that you two were both town instead of actually trying to explain his reasons was scum because it shows he doesn't care about the reads at all, just getting it out there to either discredit one of you or white knight.

Unvote

There was SOMETHING in that last ten pages that made me look back on TD a little differently. (Posts 962 and 970 of his, I believe).

Talk about shitty trajectory. You'd think town AJ would want to explain his reads switch, but NOPE.

I wish this read (On TMT) was easy to explain, but it isn't. His question to post rating is really high and content to post is really low, even when he got relatively active. Reading his iso is like reading his posts for the first time, none of them were memorable. He's flying under the radar flak of Ghost and 2 (and maybe varsoon). His list of reads felt forced, mainly because 9 null reads, not including Jon (who hasn't posted. That's 9 of 18 (Minus two for him and jon) are null to him.

NOW he's trying to explain his reads, cool. This read feels weaker than his TD read because of the way he was pushing his TD read, and the fact the read itself is hard to explain is strange. TMT was an easy read for me, and I thought that AJ was trying to give up a weaker scumpartner to save the giant of the scumteam which i assume is you. But even if that's a wrong assumption, it's strange that he picks out TMT and lets TD go for reasons~

I WANT to call orc scum, but he's just a general AtE player. I dislike his constant use of emotion, but that's more standard. His MS voting at the beginning was awful and his attacking Varsoon was backed off too early when he should've pressed forward. But otherwise, there's been nothing to give me more than casual passing glances of suspicion.

Discrediting orc.

2 is much more interesting. I've liked Buldermar's posting, but fferyllt seems scummy. Fferyllt asks a lot of questions and seems more or less passive and under the radar while Buldermar goes out and tries to push points. Just by their style, Buldermar makes statements to prove points, FF asks questions as a way of hunting, but doesn't push it beyond. Buldermar attacks, no matter how he makes others feel. Surprisingly, when FF comes on and sees tmt's reads, she doesn't mention anything to it in her quote other than it's 'good to see him posting'. The "That's all but a confirmed slot" from FF, even off of meta is bad. Something is rotten in the state of Xenoblade, and I think FF may not be hiding it all that well.

Waffles hard as fuck and kind of postures to distance from you/hop on the wagon.

I get the impression with all these "Lynch this order" lists of UN and his fucking with the town in Posh mafia. Let's not worry about that shit, you get one flip at a time and you move on. Telegraphing every person that you want dead is only going to cause the scum to kill everyone else, but congratulations on accomplishing that. The way you're negotiating lists to lynch feels very scummy. Why worry? Push a reasonable case, get the flip, move on. Nacho, I know for a fact you're smarter than this, but then you go around pretending that this isn't going to affect a scum night kill. What the hell, nacho? I expect town play from you, not that. If I didn't know Braveheart was scum, I'd be voting you for encouraging and not stopping that bullshit.

This is why I'm happy with paranoia as a towntell. Because when it's faked, holy fucking shit does it stand out.

There rest of his posts show a distinct lack of not-tunneling, which definitely isn't normal AJ town. There's also him refusing to work with a single townread which is weird as all hell; literally everyone works with townreads to some extent except for vets that think townreading is for chumps because they are batshit insane.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, yeah I attacked Orc for being an AtE player. But that's a true part of his process. There's nothing denying that. Other than that, I'm sorry I'm having a shit game. Not going to go into preservation mode.

I would like to point out (Actually, it wasn't really planned) that while I was gone, you may have talked about me a lot, but you generally stuck away from voting for me simply because I hadn't posted at all (exception: rach). This is, unfortunately, happening with the only confirmed scum player in this game, TmT.

I didn't vote for you because I was voting 2 for scum. I would vote you if 2 wasn't scum in a heartbeat. As soon as I saw the thread I got a smile on my face because I knew you were going to die today and I knew you were going to flip red. You're done.

If Nacho remembers, the reason I got a hydra with him in the first place is because I have issues in large games. This is how I play large games, I try to find one or two people and go from there because I can't manage all 20 in my head. This is why I'm going after one at a time. In a 9 player game, i can find scum easily because I have an easier working to go through. I think in pictures and visuals so generally I look for a web of connections. That's a challenge in a 20 player game. (And it doesn't work when half the game is quiet). That's why I tunnel.

Your play hasn't been a problem of picking up on limited people; it's a problem on picking up on them badly. You literally tried to sell me that 2 was town because she copy pasted my reasoning. That's a horrible, horrible interaction with a buddy and you knew it. But you tried to save them because the read is too personal to understand and they weren't getting many votes and you don't have a handle on the flow of this game. You're out of step, out of rhythm. You can't keep up with my drumbeat because I'm going fucking insane, and I'll mow through you scum like a machine.

[Nachomamma8]

post your other ones!

[Nachomamma8]

nacho what do you think of andy

stop please
andy is my ray of sunlight and the love of my life
you would be my ray of sunshine but you didn't even skim my catchup posts for your name

[Nachomamma8]

I finished reading and taking notes on every post 10 minutes before the thread opened back up. I had several versions of lists going in case something gave me reason to double or triple guess myself. I just copypasta'd the wrong one the first time.

This is his paranoia. Prop town for now. About on level with varsoon.

can you give me some scum games so I can glance at them?
if you tell me to trust them i will trust him since he is the weakest scumread
but if you give me your word, I'm yours

[Nachomamma8]

No one can come between us. <3

Wait what's with the sudden AJ wagon?
Did I miss some important information?

don't you talk like this to me andylove
don't you dare talk to me like this

[Nachomamma8]

Interesting. I find paranoid players are more creative as scum; the paranoia itself takes a creative process and it's the centerpiece of their towngame, so they tend to gambit a bit more as scum. But this theory is not properly fleshed out yet, but. There you go. I'm going to be looking and that paranoia and diving into it, and if it's good, we're good.

[Nachomamma8]

...wagon requires 11/20 players.
Good chance that in HALF the playerlist, there's at least ONE scum.

it's the majority of my townblock
let's not hunt off the wagon today, okay?

[Nachomamma8]

Exactly. Though a bit premature, I probably would've made a better n1 vig kill.

That's an understatement.
That was fine though.

I am somewhat between accepting my fate and terribly insulted you think my scum game is this easy to poke out.

It'll show through from noob-scum, but as you're scum longer, you learn to control these gambits a little more. But I actually believe that paranoid is not the correct word... "Overthinkers" are the ones to do this.

For me, overthinkers are people with incredibly transparent thought processes that make it hard for them to play scum. They have to focus on ALL the possibilities, but they're not necessarily paranoid.

Hi.

I'm reading Venmar as scum tbh.

That is all for now.

I can't wait for you to die as well, my dear.

Bad question or not, I'm confused and it would really be nice if somebody would put on an IC hat for a second and explain it.

So it's more likely that the scum killed Mac for being a part of the townblock (scum gotta break it up somehow unless I fucked up badly and they are afraid of protection), and vig killed Rev for being a millertracker, one would hope. Also a likely SK kill; not really a likely scumkill because he's still a possible mislynch.

I think we should at least look and see and talk about who might have been distancing/having ties to 2 after the lynch. As much as I'd love to lynch MS, TMT and Ven/don'tfuckingcare and SAD's not rocking me as well, it's not VERY possible all of them are scum, and it'd be a fascinating thing that if even two of those were scum in general.

I'm always up to looking. Talk to me.

Well first of all I really didn't like his exchange with Sajin. It felt like he was just attacking him due to OMGUS from this. But I really didn't like the way Venmar just came in here today and called Sajin town. It just feels so... off. Especially since he was angry yesterday, voted him, then all he really said about him is that he'll be revisiting him. So to answer someone's question of "Why is Sajin town again?" with almost like "because he is" is... weird. The response is not really adding up with someone who had a suspicion of him right at the end of the day before. Btw, if this is multiball, Venmar's over-explanation at the end of day 1 is extremely terrible (well, it is extremely terrible already, but if it's multiball it makes it scummy imo).

You don't like Venmar because you didn't like his exchange with Sajin because it was weird?
I don't really like this reasoning.

I'm not sure this is the same thing that Nacho and BnB talk about when they talk trajectory. (I will talk more about progression of reads in a part below.)

Not quite. Trajectory is just taking an idea in someone's post and seeing that idea evolve a little bit, seeing if it seems genuine or like complete and total bullshit.

[Nachomamma8]

Reads mixed with last votecount.

majiffy hook up into the game some more
mollie is doing her thing, so let's do ours

I like ghostlin tbh

ghostlin stepped it the fuck up this game, so he's feeling a lot better

still believe AJ is town, but my townreads ( namely Nacho ) believe AJ to be scum, which makes me doubt my own read. I tend to put at least 1 scum into my townreads pretty much every game, so I wouldn't be surprised if AJ was actually scum, but in this case I feel confident in my own personal townread, which I trust more especially because of how quick AJ's wagon took off. I don't feel confident in this wagon is the overall conclusion I have come to I think.

the thing is, you weren't around for the step of yesterday
2 and AJ were pretty much nailed together, and so that lynch was decided today
and you can see by his scum trolling that mollie is FALLING FOR that he is scum

Um Venmar how is it opportunistic when I voted for the dude I thought was scumz yesterday? nice misrep there.

BTW why are we ruling out a vig? I could very well see a vig shooting Rev there was certainly plenty of confusion on his slot and there were peeps who were not sure about his claim, especially the tracker part. Miller was kinda believable but tracker meh, (NOT claiming vig BTW).

hey what are your reads?

[Nachomamma8]

also andy you owe me quality time

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry, I've been busy moving a friend out of the apartment/in to the house so I've been busy all day/tomorrow too.
Though I feel like I have visited with you a bit, I'm down for more quality time. How do you want to spend it?

talk to me when you're not busy
i want your townie best

Not really? I said I didn't like him because it seemed he just dropped his suspicion of Sajin suddenly, without really a reason (I mean I know he said he'd reread him but the answer to Orc seems artificial and it doesn't feel right coming from someone who just had a suspicion of Sajin at the end of the day before.)

Venmar seems the type of player to do that regardless of alignment, don't you think?

okay varsoon is looking pretty bad right now

why?
take me inside the mind of scum-Varsoon.

Okay

So are we lynching varsoon before or after aj

Because we're lynching varsoon

if all you're going to do is show up and tunnel without reasons, well
you're not going to get a lot of the things you want to get

What you really don't understand is that anyone and everyone in this game realizes I'm getting lynched. There aren't many roles out there that are so important, you'd think of sacrificing another scum just to save scum for one more day. Ergo, bullshit on Varsoon's comment. Plus, this lynch was seen weeks ago. Were I a power role, my actions would've been fully implemented yesterday.

You also understand you're getting lynched and you know that i will listen to you while you're going down. Instead, you're shutting down completely, not cursing my name, not yelling at me, not anything really. If you want to talk, I'm here. Even though you're scum.

[Nachomamma8]

hum. Didn't get what I quote tagged from the first page of ISO.

Regardless, B&B, why aren't you scum?

lol

I am going to love reading this scumboard

you said yourself you think 2 is a better player than all of us why the fuck do you think I would bus them like that. like that does not even make sense.

VARSOON DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS TOWNGAMES (EVERY SINGLE ONE)
HE GETS LYNCHED D1
EXCEPT FOR ONE
WHERE I SAID THIS TYPE OF THOUGHT PROCESS CAN'T BE FAKED
IT'S TOO FUCKING CRAZY TO BE FAKED
AND IS THERE REASON FOR HIM TO FAKE IT
NO
HELL NO
UNLESS HE KNOWS I WILL TOWNREAD HIM FOR IT AND I WILL NOT BE AROUND FOREVER
SO IT'S A SHIT SCUM STRATEGY
VARSOON'S SCUMGAME IS BORING
boring as hell
he's sensible, he's too helpful, he doesn't rock the boat
when varsoon is town
he rocks the fuck out of every boat because his thought process is free. he has no reason to keep it inside; it's absolutely everywhere. that's what he is this game. at all.

[Nachomamma8]

Varsoon town:

I'd rather lynch the newb. Why? It prevents you underestimating them, and, furthermore, you can meta the experienced ones. Every scum has the same level of power in the game (that is, a night kill) outside of PRs, so if it's equally likely that both are scum, the question becomes not so much who holds tangible power but what the nature of intangible power is.

Varsoon scum:

Oh right, now i get you, it read like scum sitting there forgeting that confirming someone town means confirming the scum

Makes sense.
Still, I don't want the time issue to make us over-rush things. We should be really sure about who we lynch. I'd rather not risk a mislynch on something that isn't substantial, or a fluke.

That said, I wish Voided could come in and make some comments. It hasn't been that long since his last post, but I feel like it's better to have a lot of posts and interactions to look at and garner reads from rather than just a few.

Varsoon town:

No, you didn't. But if you start talking about 'not-so-talkative' people, you should have at least players in mind.
Because it's way too early to talk about things like that. Take me for example. Just after you posted it, I was done with dinner. Before I started posting, I only had 1 post. Why? Because of my sister's birthday, staying over at my boyfriend's and work. People have lives and calling them out after one day of playing is bad.
I want the pre-game over and you, Serra and Untrod caught my interest during it. For me, it's good enough to look at it.

Pre-game is over.

Let's keep our personal lives out of the game. ATE comes up sometimes and I'd rather it not in this one. I've seen games where scum has lurked 15 pages and made clever dodges about family and loved ones in order to dodge suspicion. We all, as players, understand that people are busy and can't lurk the forums 24/7. I think that we can also agree that if a player makes no post within about 5 days, they should be scrutinized.

With as many power roles as there are, it's an interesting set up. We, however, should play as if there are just town and mafia for now. PRs can become an issue to think about after the first day. Talking about it today will only lead to fluff discussion and won't get to the core of what needs to get done--scumhunting.

I'm going to go on a limb and say that one of the people posting so far is scum. Why? Scum often posts early on in threads instead of waiting to introduce and post. Also, it's statistically likewise, too, assuming a 1 to 3 scum/town ratio.

Varsoon scum:

@Orozorro: I don't like participating in RVS. I'd rather do something to get players engaged and out of random voting and flinging baseless accusations until something sticks.

Yeah, that should definitely read "I'd rather not give them that pleasure."


I'm kinda curious as to what AA means about balancing it out, myself.

Orozorro, what do you think of the other players?

[Nachomamma8]

2. Aj The Epic - bad
3. Andrius - good
4. BeautyAndTheBeast - good
5. BROseidon - good
6. Cabd - good
7. Venmar - good
8. Ghostlin - good
9. GuyInFreezer - good
10. Ser Arthur Dayne - bad
12. Metal Sonic - good
13. orcinus_theorigina - good
14. RachMarie - good
15. Sajin - good
17. Nachomamma8 - good
18. TiphaineDeath - good
19. spinachattack - bad
20. Varsoon - good

Here's where I lie. Where do we differ?

[Nachomamma8]

2. I still think AJ is town even if jiffy wants to bust my balls over the read. (Honestly I don't think he's scum for it, I just think he's trying to divine whether or not I'm scum by pressuring my read to see if it holds under pressure.)

why town? what do you think of his play today? have you read my wallpost on him; what problems do you have with that?

10. I think the keybladewielder slot is iffy at best. Seemed like a weak player, so the scumtells I did see could be coming from that line of town-logic but who knows. Still wonder about it though.

iffy bad is close enough

12. Iffy on MS.

that's OK too

20. VARSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON. Scummier than townier. The reaction was better than I expected. Going to look into 2's stuff and wagon analysis and whatnot since 2 was a major read for me so I now have to find a new kingpin to chase after.

what do you think of my recent posting on him?

[Nachomamma8]

[11] ² (

Andrius

,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Nachomamma8

,

BROseidon

,

Sajin

,

GuyInFreezer

,

Varsoon

,

Venmar

)

[3] waynegg (Ghostlin,

Aj The Epic

)
[2] Metal Sonic (

Cabd, TiphaineDeath

)
[1] Aj The Epic (

RachMarie

)
[1] orcinus_theoriginal (waynegg)
[1] TiphaineDeath (

Metal Sonic

)

[1] Not Voting (

Ser Arthur Dayne

)

Reads mixed with last votecount.

Majiffy: Andrius, BRO, AJ, Cabd, TD, SAD is where we differ
The harshest differences are with AJ and Cabd; TD and Andrius differences I can live with (Andrius especially, since mollie), and SAD you'll need to explain to me because no one in that slot has done anything good.

[Nachomamma8]

AJ's first post is a great entry post.

It's sort of funny, but not particularly town.

Focus on TD and ignoring the issue of millertracker is also town.

Why is ignoring millertracker issue town?

Don't see scum_AJ arguing with towngod_Nacho regarding a TD lynch this early on.

It's a little dangerous, yeah, but picking on towngods early isn't necessarily a bad idea as scum. Yeah it's hard to tango with, but TD is a man that is occasionally a little hard to understand and so makes a great mislynch; arguing with me about it to win my support so he doesn't get blamed seems like a perfectly viable scumtactic.

AJ's posting is strong and consistent.

Posts that I thought weren't strong:

2 is town. That last discussion with nacho cemented it. Nacho, your points were almost mirrored. Get over it, that read is wrong.

He called 2 definite town because 2 copied my points on other people and didn't bring anything new to the table.

I get the impression with all these "Lynch this order" lists of UN and his fucking with the town in Posh mafia. Let's not worry about that shit, you get one flip at a time and you move on. Telegraphing every person that you want dead is only going to cause the scum to kill everyone else, but congratulations on accomplishing that. The way you're negotiating lists to lynch feels very scummy. Why worry? Push a reasonable case, get the flip, move on. Nacho, I know for a fact you're smarter than this, but then you go around pretending that this isn't going to affect a scum night kill. What the hell, nacho? I expect town play from you, not that. If I didn't know Braveheart was scum, I'd be voting you for encouraging and not stopping that bullshit.

Freaks the hell out because I post a PURGE list, which doesn't make any fucking sense at all.

Some posts I thought weren't consistent:

TMT is scum but no one wants to lynch for some reason. (Had 8 null reads in his one read list)

Hard tunnels the fuck out of TMT day 1.

Venmar, I think that Rach could be scum, but Bro is the constant one that steps scum more than Rach to me. Compared to Andrius' catch up posts, Bro doesn't sit right. I think that's your day three lynch. And TMT's hydra can be the vig shot.

Says that BRO should be the day 3 lynch and the hydra should be the vig shot?

This guy is not town. Why the fuck would you consider any of his posts town?

also tunnels the fuck out of TD

TMT, Ghost, Mac (motive bad, reasoning good... light scum read), Metal sonic, dntfkingcare, possibly 2.

but drops him in his next reads list without any explanation whatsoever

AJ does no sheeping, all original work, and isn't afraid of shit.

That's fine. But his original work wasn't very good anywhere.

Like seriously, 1291 is a great example of AJtown doing legwork. 1787, 1974, 1978 are other great posts.

1291 seems like a bunch of waffling, 1787 is "he's lurking and no one is paying attention to him" which is BAD because he's ignoring all of the other lurkers getting heat at that time, 1974 has "i'm not going into preservation mode" which shows he's conscious of literally the only thing going for him, 1978 has a horrible reason for declaring scum town, and has him call out a bunch of lurkers for being scum even though none of those people are lurking and A WHOLE BUNCH OF SCUM ARE LURKING AND ACTUALLY SCUM.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho's right. I should probably play scummier in my scum games. Or maybe just less vocal? Ahhh, it's be way to obvious!

or figure out how to stop getting yourself lynched in your towngames

[Nachomamma8]

I don't like Vashoon's play. I don't like the uncertainty principle he creates: for example, after his gambit with 2 and another player: he calls 2 town due to the reaction to the gambit. He even used phrasing like '2's playing better than most of you' (a paraphrase, I admit) and the gambit created a false positive result, while it didn't fool anyone, if it did it would of cleared 2.

And yet, the gambit and the amount of times Vashoon was at the center of attention makes me wonder if it's not sub-optimal scum tactics to do so.

it's farther than sub-optimal
he cannot handle pressure worth shit; he just digs himself a deeper hole
his scumgame isn't like that at all

[Nachomamma8]

Because he's looking at more things that just that which is in front of him.
Easy to get wrapped up in the big thing; its much harder to do the things that aren't in the open.

There's easy, there's hard, and there's "simply not coming from scum". I could call going off on a tangent of his own hard, but there's no way in hell for him to sheep when we're lynching his scumpartner.

I'm still a big fan of original work.

What original work? And I would argue Varsoon has given us a hundred times the original work that AJ has, and yet you don't find him town? Why?

It reminds me of the 'shotty cant be scum because its shotty and his play is just shit'.

But it's not. I'm saying his towngame is fucking insane as shit, his scumgame is extremely calm. It's one of those smoking gun meta tells (like mollie. aggressive as town, passive as fuck as scum. Tierce: engaged, fierce, aggressive as town. Passive and coasty as scum.)

Well you're around now.
I wondered if you'd make it this far, to be honest.

Every day I breathe is a day I kiss the ground in front of me and drink from the clear waters that were given to me by the Almighty. But if Varsoon's strategy is "make Nacho townread me and carry me through endgame"? I'll be impressed, but it's not exactly longterm. I'm going to lynch scum until I see green, and then I will reanalyze. That's when I start to bend on the reads like Varsoon, that I have to defend from hell and high water but everyone else is begging me to throw him into the fire.

[Nachomamma8]

So this is me asking you.
Do you want me on this wagon?

Yes.

[Nachomamma8]

Sajin, what do you think about AJ?

[Nachomamma8]

Oh come on not even a single laugh for my funny lolpost?

Fine. I see how it is.

I did enjoy it but I didn't want to quote it in my wallpost then got sidetracked by Andrius.
I am very sorry

[Nachomamma8]

I'm 4 years old!

[Nachomamma8]

Sajin, what do you think about AJ?

I have my doubts, but yes I think AJ could be scum.

How many scum groups do you think there are, Nacho?

1. If there's a second scum group, we'll see soon enough.

HAPPY SCUMDAY NACH

what would you like your bday present to be

Can I answer for him? 'cause the answer is an AJ lynch.

DING DING DING

I feel, Nacho, like it is because of the defense you and others are giving Varsoon for his "crazy play" that he is actively TRYING to fit his play to your expectations. In that sense, you are teaching Varsoon how to act town.

He started up the crazy play before I started calling him town. If he's improved so much to have that foresight as scum to switch up his style specifically to manipulate me, then. I'm impressed as fuck and I haven't seen that kind of improvement in any kind of player before. Normally players have recognizable meta because they can't avoid it, and if he could figure out how to manipulate me to stop from getting lynched, then I'm pretty sure he could figure out how to manipulate a normal town to stop from getting mislynched so damn much. If you look at the one scum we just lynched, buldermar and ffery (two players with more advanced scumgames than Varsoon) couldn't manipulate me like that to stop themselves from getting lynched. So if you think Varsoon is a scum god, you need to go digging through his scumboards and give me some evidence of that kind of thought, please.

Nacho could I have a link to that scum game of Vars? Cause he was town in all the games I was in with him and pretty much played like this and got himself mislynched a lot. So I had put him in my town pile cause of that. Would be interesting to compare him as scumz, I thought he did not have any scum games completed yet?

In that post where I did "this is town Varsoon, this is scum Varsoon", I put links in the quotes. I'll dig them back up for my next post though.

Did anyone actually read my post where I voted for Rachmarie? Like seriously? I feel like I am being completely ignored this game.

I did but RachMarie is very, very town this game and we're lynching scumAJ.

Cabd has been reading scum continuously all since gamestart. That read won't be changing save for an investigative report on a confirmed player.

Why? What do you think of his handling of 2's "scumslip"?

TD is a little scumbutt, I reckon Andrius is as well.

you know i don't accept "scumbutt" as a proper line of reasoning

Keyblade seemed detachedtown, and the replace-out seemed sincerely town-motivated.

keyblade sucks as scum
that is the posting of a player who sucks as scum
but, let's talk about SAD not keyblade since we both know keyblade didn't post enough to get a good read off of. what do you think of that posting so far?

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

SCUM SHUTTING THE FUCK DOWN
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO LYNCH AJ AFTER THIS POST
I WILL SLAUGHTER YOU

[Nachomamma8]

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

[Nachomamma8]

And you are ignoring me

But it's 1:30 am so I'm sleeping Cabd are you actually in the same zone as me

orc, do you also suspect Andy? because i can deal with people suspecting one of andy/varsoon, but not the other. unless you're saying the scumteam went "hey guys let's just fuck around with Nacho all game", in which case the moment I see that we're lynching green, I can reanalyze for you. but it's a little premature to fall into the plays of insanity like that.

and i really
really

need you to stop posting and focusing on varsoon. because i don't care about your reads on varsoon anymore. they are very clear. they are clear enough. stop. giving. it. please. what other reads in the townblock do you find scummy?

[Nachomamma8]

orc suspects me. Has since D1.

ok so basically the people who suspect you think that the scumteam went "hey, let's manipulate the fuck out of Nacho and make him townread us at every turn" when FFERYLLT AND BULDERMAR COULD NOT DO THAT

[Nachomamma8]

also I don't remember asking you about what you thought about Varsoon's original shit, andy
is it just too stupid for you to enjoy, or...?

[Nachomamma8]

NACHO LOOK AT THIS.

I've seen many people try to force their townmeta. It usually doesn't go very well.
There's also not a reason to force his townmeta when his townmeta sucks and his scummeta is decent.
Varsoon wouldn't think of that as scum because he lacks foresight.

[Nachomamma8]

Sing, my little birdie. Sing your way to the grave.

[Nachomamma8]

WAIT WHY IS NACHO GETTING THE CREDIT FOR THIS LYNCH

I found him first!

[Nachomamma8]

Also it's my scumday.
You can't give me credit for ONE scumlynch on my scumday?

[Nachomamma8]

*raises hand*

I haven't had time to get a real read out yet, and please don't murder me, but I see that level of cave as town right now :/.

Why is that?

[Nachomamma8]

Because I, as a skimming reader, can't really find the case on AJ, and as him I can see this scenario where he really can't find it either and is feeling overwhelmed.

Scum in that position digs in and fights it out, or suicides to end the day early.

Giving up without committing suicide here feels like an honestly confused townie.

this is the original case:

Too many bad posts. Voting Nacho immediately because no scum would ever miller claim? Bad. If you don't think scum would do it, they'll try it. Unvoting with "Huh, interesting". Also bad. Bad scum must die, and I wish I could do math with that name but I can't.

He had reasoning for the miller tracker being scum, but instead chose to attack "bad scum die". There's no reasoning whatsoever in there, and the fact that he pretty much ignores the miller tracker after this except for "you can be whatever alignment you want" was bad. It felt like he didn't care about sorting it out at all and was just avoiding the situation because he didn't want to take sides in it. Cabd, what do you think of this point?

Why are we still on the Miller/tracker thing and not lynching scum TD? I am very mildly put off that we have yet to focus the minute attention needed to lynch that motherfucker.

Let's face it, TD is scum. If you want Sven to be scum in your happy world, that's fine, too. But confirmed scum die first.

Weird as fuck post. Ignores literally everything and says that "oh TD is still scum", doesn't add to his case or refine his read. I would expect town AJ to pick up on all the shit that happened, not just dumbtunnel TD.

You know, I was kind of upset about this, but then this:

REALLY pissed me off. How the actual fuck is that guy town?

This is not how town tries to sell a scumread. He's angry at being scumread, but that doesn't make sense considering he had not done JACK AND SHIT up to that point and he really shouldn't expect otherwise.

Post 52: The logical fallacy of "Scum would never do that and in my might 20 games, I've never seen it!" Bad logic, and if that was the case, scum would claim that shit all the time. Doesn't take a genius to figure out scum does what town is willing to give town points for.

Post 99 an unvote off of you, stating "Huh, interesting". No reason. Trying to get off without specifying what changed the opinion.

Post 278 votes sven (The "Can't be scum" guy) saying that he's done a 'shitstorm of wifom'. Guess what? That's what you get with ANY miller claim.

All of this is surface scumhunting, which is pretty much useless. AJ's not a surface scumhunter at all.

Nacho is the town-Venmar this game.
Orcinus is running in fucking circles at the moment. Varsoon is running in ovals. Varsoon was way too quick to back off his case for Orc, but even stranger is that Orc didn't hammer on Varsoon for completely disregarding orc after about 4 posts (even though he went through all that trouble for an incredibly long wall). Even worse, Orc backs off his own vote.

To be honest, I've learned from past that orc can have his say, but don't give him too much weight. It can result in catastrophe. So even considering him a 'town leader' (What, by posts? Definitely not by flips...) is presumptuous, Varsoon.

Mac is his general passive self, but that's not going to help this day.

Sven can easily be any allignment he wants to be. Give me the guilty results I want as a tracker and I'll consider your claim legitimate... Maybe. A miller doesn't usually have a secondary role. It sounds like a bail out of a wagon.

Discredit nation here. I don't like how he sort of attacks orc but not really; it lacks the balls of Varsoon's attack on him.

I'm not a perfect person... There's many things I wish I didn't do. But I continue learning~~~ I never meant to do those things to you!!

I should've said "Both of them are town, so the argument over them bickering over past games is not advancing our cause".

Dismissal of you and mollie in a TvT fight was a strong scumtell for me. Focusing on arguments and not on players, but worse yet the fact he just said that you two were both town instead of actually trying to explain his reasons was scum because it shows he doesn't care about the reads at all, just getting it out there to either discredit one of you or white knight.

Unvote

There was SOMETHING in that last ten pages that made me look back on TD a little differently. (Posts 962 and 970 of his, I believe).

Talk about shitty trajectory. You'd think town AJ would want to explain his reads switch, but NOPE.

I wish this read (On TMT) was easy to explain, but it isn't. His question to post rating is really high and content to post is really low, even when he got relatively active. Reading his iso is like reading his posts for the first time, none of them were memorable. He's flying under the radar flak of Ghost and 2 (and maybe varsoon). His list of reads felt forced, mainly because 9 null reads, not including Jon (who hasn't posted. That's 9 of 18 (Minus two for him and jon) are null to him.

NOW he's trying to explain his reads, cool. This read feels weaker than his TD read because of the way he was pushing his TD read, and the fact the read itself is hard to explain is strange. TMT was an easy read for me, and I thought that AJ was trying to give up a weaker scumpartner to save the giant of the scumteam which i assume is you. But even if that's a wrong assumption, it's strange that he picks out TMT and lets TD go for reasons~

I WANT to call orc scum, but he's just a general AtE player. I dislike his constant use of emotion, but that's more standard. His MS voting at the beginning was awful and his attacking Varsoon was backed off too early when he should've pressed forward. But otherwise, there's been nothing to give me more than casual passing glances of suspicion.

Discrediting orc.

2 is much more interesting. I've liked Buldermar's posting, but fferyllt seems scummy. Fferyllt asks a lot of questions and seems more or less passive and under the radar while Buldermar goes out and tries to push points. Just by their style, Buldermar makes statements to prove points, FF asks questions as a way of hunting, but doesn't push it beyond. Buldermar attacks, no matter how he makes others feel. Surprisingly, when FF comes on and sees tmt's reads, she doesn't mention anything to it in her quote other than it's 'good to see him posting'. The "That's all but a confirmed slot" from FF, even off of meta is bad. Something is rotten in the state of Xenoblade, and I think FF may not be hiding it all that well.

Waffles hard as fuck and kind of postures to distance from you/hop on the wagon.

I get the impression with all these "Lynch this order" lists of UN and his fucking with the town in Posh mafia. Let's not worry about that shit, you get one flip at a time and you move on. Telegraphing every person that you want dead is only going to cause the scum to kill everyone else, but congratulations on accomplishing that. The way you're negotiating lists to lynch feels very scummy. Why worry? Push a reasonable case, get the flip, move on. Nacho, I know for a fact you're smarter than this, but then you go around pretending that this isn't going to affect a scum night kill. What the hell, nacho? I expect town play from you, not that. If I didn't know Braveheart was scum, I'd be voting you for encouraging and not stopping that bullshit.

This is why I'm happy with paranoia as a towntell. Because when it's faked, holy fucking shit does it stand out.

There rest of his posts show a distinct lack of not-tunneling, which definitely isn't normal AJ town. There's also him refusing to work with a single townread which is weird as all hell; literally everyone works with townreads to some extent except for vets that think townreading is for chumps because they are batshit insane.

there's also my rebuttal of Andy's towncase if you'd want that too.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: reconsidering maybe that you're right on Andy being town. But varsoon, sorry I'm not going with you on that read

I can agree with the rest of the townblock for now

as long as you can agree with 1, I'm OK.

[Nachomamma8]

TD, my rebuttal to Andy:

AJ's first post is a great entry post.

It's sort of funny, but not particularly town.

Focus on TD and ignoring the issue of millertracker is also town.

Why is ignoring millertracker issue town?

Don't see scum_AJ arguing with towngod_Nacho regarding a TD lynch this early on.

It's a little dangerous, yeah, but picking on towngods early isn't necessarily a bad idea as scum. Yeah it's hard to tango with, but TD is a man that is occasionally a little hard to understand and so makes a great mislynch; arguing with me about it to win my support so he doesn't get blamed seems like a perfectly viable scumtactic.

AJ's posting is strong and consistent.

Posts that I thought weren't strong:

2 is town. That last discussion with nacho cemented it. Nacho, your points were almost mirrored. Get over it, that read is wrong.

He called 2 definite town because 2 copied my points on other people and didn't bring anything new to the table.

I get the impression with all these "Lynch this order" lists of UN and his fucking with the town in Posh mafia. Let's not worry about that shit, you get one flip at a time and you move on. Telegraphing every person that you want dead is only going to cause the scum to kill everyone else, but congratulations on accomplishing that. The way you're negotiating lists to lynch feels very scummy. Why worry? Push a reasonable case, get the flip, move on. Nacho, I know for a fact you're smarter than this, but then you go around pretending that this isn't going to affect a scum night kill. What the hell, nacho? I expect town play from you, not that. If I didn't know Braveheart was scum, I'd be voting you for encouraging and not stopping that bullshit.

Freaks the hell out because I post a PURGE list, which doesn't make any fucking sense at all.

Some posts I thought weren't consistent:

TMT is scum but no one wants to lynch for some reason. (Had 8 null reads in his one read list)

Hard tunnels the fuck out of TMT day 1.

Venmar, I think that Rach could be scum, but Bro is the constant one that steps scum more than Rach to me. Compared to Andrius' catch up posts, Bro doesn't sit right. I think that's your day three lynch. And TMT's hydra can be the vig shot.

Says that BRO should be the day 3 lynch and the hydra should be the vig shot?

This guy is not town. Why the fuck would you consider any of his posts town?

also tunnels the fuck out of TD

TMT, Ghost, Mac (motive bad, reasoning good... light scum read), Metal sonic, dntfkingcare, possibly 2.

but drops him in his next reads list without any explanation whatsoever

AJ does no sheeping, all original work, and isn't afraid of shit.

That's fine. But his original work wasn't very good anywhere.

Like seriously, 1291 is a great example of AJtown doing legwork. 1787, 1974, 1978 are other great posts.

1291 seems like a bunch of waffling, 1787 is "he's lurking and no one is paying attention to him" which is BAD because he's ignoring all of the other lurkers getting heat at that time, 1974 has "i'm not going into preservation mode" which shows he's conscious of literally the only thing going for him, 1978 has a horrible reason for declaring scum town, and has him call out a bunch of lurkers for being scum even though none of those people are lurking and A WHOLE BUNCH OF SCUM ARE LURKING AND ACTUALLY SCUM.

[Nachomamma8]

I really really think andy is scum

Do you want to talk with me about it?

But noooo, everyone online is too cynical to order a dude 15 bucks worth of delicious food.

too cynical?
too poor.

[Nachomamma8]

If AJ flips town, my scumdar is broken and I'll probably try to pull a hard reset. We'll leave the townblock as orc, B&B, Cabd, Ghostlin, GiF. Then we'll split people in the townblock to interrogate other members that they aren't so convinced about, no interventions. Then we make another decision, reform the second ring of the townblock, lynch someone else.

[Nachomamma8]

Because if AJ is actually town that makes me scum for thinking he was town all along and trying to not go through with the lynch.
I am reading this correctly right?

No because people aren't accepting you easily, so that means that their concerns might be valid if my picture of the game isn't.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay well I'm happy that he did

But that was a dumb thing to do cabd

fucking instantly
and guess what
that was town as fucking shit

[Nachomamma8]

Okay well I'm happy that he did

But that was a dumb thing to do cabd

fucking instantly
and guess what
that was town as fucking shit

One town tell does not a townie make

that was a helluva town tell
plus I've had him pegged as town the whole game
you can't touch him

[Nachomamma8]

people breadcrumb in the strangest ways on this site

What site did you play on

Because I would like to try there sometime

i would like to bring you there!

[Nachomamma8]

Mollie, Buldey, Jiffy

I have landed on your home world

buldey's homeworld is Mafiascum.net
I am proud to have beat him in his first game

V/LA until Monday

i'll be around, just not crazily
maybe just hammer aj?

[Nachomamma8]

happy scumday Nacho

VOTE: AJ

<3
i love you

[Nachomamma8]

and if i die before i wake,
i pray the lord my soul to take

[Nachomamma8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=571BuZeeQjE

[Nachomamma8]

this was the best scumday ever, thanks guys
<3

[Nachomamma8]

Well, I guess I'll prove the whole town wrong here then.

The reason that I'm stopping isn't because I'm new, it's because I've played this game long enough to realize what needs to happen at this point. And that is my lynch. Now I don't like being called scum on the way out, but when my opinion cannot be taken seriously, I no longer have any reason to stay in the game. In which, I'd simply give final reads and not affect anyone else until right before my flip when my reads will be taken seriously. At this point, the only wrong move would've been NOT to lynch me.

So let's finish this:

Scum:

TMT/Spinach attack: I'm tired of spewing this case. Even with the replacement and 2 suspecting him, I still don't trust him. I think 2 realized he was in trouble and going to be lynched soon so he could distanced easily.
Bro: I don't know why Andy is seen as scum. This
Rach: Really, I haven't liked many of his posts. He's more confusing than
Cabd: Recently, his posts have completely reversed my views of him

Town reads

Ghostlin: His first two posts were said to be weak, but they've gotten better.
Gif: I know people are questioning him, but I still think he's solidly town.
Metal Sonic: This one isn't scum, he would be completely useless and seethrough as scum
Varsoon
Andy
Nacho
Orc
BnB

ESPECIALLY WITH THIS
thanks aj

[Nachomamma8]

PEdit: Lol I called AJ town. Venny is so good.

^^^^
town

[Nachomamma8]

WORST SCUMDAY EVER

[Nachomamma8]

MULTIBALL

[Nachomamma8]

Scum is in, but not exclusive at least one of {Varsoon, Sajin}, using Day 1/Day 2 wagon data and PoE. Nacho, I know you're re-calibrating, but would you support a Varshoon lynch today?

Vote: Varsoon

Oh yeah yeah yeah and

VOTE: Varsoon

all orc did his entire play after D1 dodging 2 was tunnel Varsoon.
that's absolutely it.

fair enough

NACHO
THE TRIUMVIRATE NEEDS YOU
FOR THE NIGHT IS DARK AND FULL OF TERRORS

and nacho is angry

2) Nacho isn't dead. TownBastionofLightandGlory Nacho isn't dead. Its D4. I'm not sure how much else I want to claim at the moment but suffice to say I think Nacho has a chance of being scum.

it should be obvious why I'm currently alive

Am I missing something the rest of you guys see? Please enlighten me if so, because this is the one post above all others keeping me from dumping Nacho in the scum bucket.

this is the only reason you find me town?
why do you find me scum?

[Nachomamma8]

No more votes on Varsoon though, I would love to slow this day down.

[Nachomamma8]

10. Ser Arthur Dayne
12. Metal Sonic
20. Varsoon

here are the players i currently want to kill

[Nachomamma8]

The silence is deafening...

UNVOTE ANDRIUS

VOTE GHOSTLIN

Look guys, my names SA and instead of responding to the fact that my scum buddy was just claimed shot in the head, I'm going to remove my vote a place where it is useless and put it on another useless vote!

Nacho, Andrius, answer this for me: why haven't we lynched this slot yet?

Because I actually think that he's a decently strong townread at this point whereas Varsoon and SAD are not.

[Nachomamma8]

One of the biggest problems with Varsoon is how he fell off after the first day, I think. There was a lot of information for him to calculate there, but after the lynch of 2 everything should've seemed completely fine by him. The squirming around the 2 lynch was suspicious as fuck considering how he treated the AJ/Rach lynches, and I really don't #3252 and him calling for me to "guide him", and I don't like how his play is such a far cry from his scum play, but he's also having trouble seeing a lot of things people point out to him and that's not really town Varsoon. He's crazy as fuck, but he's not stupid.

SAD lynch should be easy by now. What thing has that slot done the entire game?
1) Made a shit case on Venmar
2) Called Varsoon out for fencesitting, then defended Varsoon after a confirmed not-bulletproof was shot and didn't die
3) Told everyone "gj with the catch on Rach"

Metal Sonic is a matter of a weak townread getting nudged out. TD dropping out of his scumreads after he made a massive case on him, trying to excuse differences in his meta because the game was going so quickly... No thanks.