Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

[Ghostlin]

Speaking of dumb...

This is an excellent post, devoted to scum hunting and a well-reasoned way to call my reasoning that I've worked hard on 'dumb'.

The above sentence is sarcasm.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

I've been wanting Greek for some time, but whatever you want, dear, is fine with me.

a Cesear salad, cheese fondue and a bottle of wine. does that sound good to you?

meanwhile we can talk about how scummy your reads are

sound good?

[Andrius]

I've been wanting Greek for some time, but whatever you want, dear, is fine with me.

a Cesear salad, cheese fondue and a bottle of wine. does that sound good to you?

meanwhile we can talk about how scummy your reads are

sound good?

Sounds great.

So what don't you like about my reads?
Let me guess: varsoon and AJ?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

yes

[Andrius]

Do you want me to restate my reads or is it more of a 'try again your reads are bad' thing?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

let me elaborate

the aj lynch should not be that big of a stretch, the varsoon leap looks like mebbe going after poor town play.

where is guy again in your list?

[Andrius]

let me elaborate

the aj lynch should not be that big of a stretch, the varsoon leap looks like mebbe going after poor town play.

where is guy again in your list?

Thank you for the clarification.

I'm on AJ because Nacho asked. End of story. It could be bad play, yes. I just see the scum motivation way more than the town-side of that and there are things I am hesitant to let slide.

(I thought Nacho didn't want us discussing this.)

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to guy. But since you're interested; give me ten minutes and I'll ISO him up for you.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

tl;dr

his iso will look scummy

[Aj The Epic]

Speaking of dumb...

This is an excellent post, devoted to scum hunting and a well-reasoned way to call my reasoning that I've worked hard on 'dumb'.

The above sentence is sarcasm.

10/10 Would read again.

[Andrius]

FREEZE IN HELL BATMAN

@Nacho: As of now, town.

I don't have any strong scumreads from ppl who posted so far. About MS, I'm really biased at reading him right now for a reason.

BRO - seems town

@Varsoon's 136 - ....
But I'm p confident at reading varsoon so I'll wait for him to post more.

@orc's 158 - not yet but there's a high chance my vote will end up there, especially after stuff like 168.

@sven's 162 - see the arrows?

@sven's 165 - WIFOM

@sven's 171 - is that post referencing Cabd?

Wow sven breaks easier than remembrance.

Still no scumreads.

Both of your roles?

VOTE: Sven

How is miller tracker two roles

P-Edit: I got a girl too.

@Mac: Then that's one role, not two.
Unless other ppl accepts "miller tracker" is two roles, I firmly believe that it's a scumslip.

Hey nacho what do you think of sven mentioning two roles?
I need a different view because I think sven slipped up and trying to get out of it.

@N: I don't like them either but considering the situation he is in and how he breaks easily the possibility of scum-sven slipping is pretty high.

P-edit: let me post

This thing would be a flag but we're good because I explained it and he understood.

GiF calling everyone town but no scumreads (besides for the 'catch' on Sven's doublerole) is troublesome.

Town (not in strength order)
Nacho/orc/molljiffy/varsoon/sajin/bro/care(gut)

Scum (not in strength order)
TD/sven/2

Null
Everyone else


This is where I stand so far.

Hey Varsoon.
You rolled scum this game, haven't you?
VOTE: Varsoon

Sudden swap from calling varsoon town posts ago.
Waiting for reasoning.

I could explain how varsoon is not town now but i'd rather see him post more first.

He had his chance. No reasoning yet.

@BRO: I already said I'm keeping the reasons to myself regarding Varsoon for now.
The earlier townread on him was meta.

Yeah um yeah.
Redflag stands.

Tell me why Varsoon is scum.

Long story short, I think he's forcing his townmeta. I won't go to the detail until I have my one-on-one convo with him.

NACHO LOOK AT THIS.

gif, sven or 2

As of now, I lean toward 2.

But I would like to see lynch happen after I get to have a friendly conversation with Varsoon.

After never mentioning 2 before this, I find thus scummy.


Maybe its just because he took awhile to get warmed up but finally analyzing people 80 posts in is nice.

Anyway when I was talking to Varsoon I was mainly looking for his thought process and stuff.

I flipped my read on him because it looked like he was backing down too easily, his thought process looked offkey, and looked like he was distancing me. (Considering I can read him well.)

Turned out his "distancing" was just paranoia about me, and I could follow his thought process of his posts regarding his posts, and that's a good sign.

Also I could see the reason on sudden readflip on orc, and considering it's Varsoon, I buy it.

So Varsoon is town.

UNVOTE:

@TMT: what's your experience of mafia games?

This is a grea tunvote because of reasoning as to why.
Shows how a read CHANGES.

Gah fuck catch up posts with my phone. I'm gonna do it properly when I get desktop access

My read changes:
2: scum to town
Rev: scum to town
MS: null to town

Don't you worry. I'm gonna explain them all eventually.

Somebody asked me and nacho why we read Varsoon town.

That fail gambit was in town mindset, not scum mindset.

Another mention of 2.

Liking his later posting. Not so much early on.
Whether he was town waiting to get his feet wet or scum waiting for things to happen I'm not sure but.
His recent play helps with his early stuff but I don't like his stuff with 2.

Gut says town.
Can't shake the taste of badD1 in my mouth.

[Nachomamma8]

NACHO LOOK AT THIS.

I've seen many people try to force their townmeta. It usually doesn't go very well.
There's also not a reason to force his townmeta when his townmeta sucks and his scummeta is decent.
Varsoon wouldn't think of that as scum because he lacks foresight.

[Ghostlin]

So, here's how this goes: I'm going to read, let you guys do work and when you want my final reads, I'll give them.

This is not how this works.

But since you want to be reticent:

Intent to Hammer: AJ

We're going to play a little game. You have 48 hours of this post to give me town and scum reads along with reasoning so Town can read them. You don't post, I'll hop on you and kill you into next week.

I'll be clear: this might not save you. What it will do is leave a chain of evidence that we can either follow if you're town, or give you a chance to create one final WIFOM gambit.

Or, you can hang yourself if you're scum.

I'd much rather talk about Sajin or the lurkers or even Varshoon, but this post is

SO BAD

under pressure that I'd actually lynch it. Nacho's right. So, like a little canary, I want you to sing.

[Nachomamma8]

Sing, my little birdie. Sing your way to the grave.

[GuyInFreezer]

Re: 2 - TBH, I stopped reading 2's posts for a while because they talked too much. Later I realized that f/b ratio was leaning heavily on b so I decided to focus on f's posts.

Re: Varsoon - I know I held back a lot on Varsoon, because it was related to his meta stuff and if I outed the difference before my chat with him, he would've used his townmeta more. I've seen some suspicious spot, so I swapped my read on him. After convo, I found him town again.

Re: Townreads - It's something that I adapted since borkgame. Get strong townreads (unless some major scummy thing pops up) and PoE the shit out of the game.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

WAIT WHY IS NACHO GETTING THE CREDIT FOR THIS LYNCH

[TiphaineDeath]

*raises hand*

I haven't had time to get a real read out yet, and please don't murder me, but I see that level of cave as town right now :/.

[Nachomamma8]

WAIT WHY IS NACHO GETTING THE CREDIT FOR THIS LYNCH

I found him first!

[Nachomamma8]

Also it's my scumday.
You can't give me credit for ONE scumlynch on my scumday?

[Nachomamma8]

*raises hand*

I haven't had time to get a real read out yet, and please don't murder me, but I see that level of cave as town right now :/.

Why is that?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

WAIT WHY IS NACHO GETTING THE CREDIT FOR THIS LYNCH

I found him first!

no you didn't I did with my "did aj just pop in here and post a bunch of nothing" post

fine. I will share it with you

also happy scumday

[TiphaineDeath]

Because I, as a skimming reader, can't really find the case on AJ, and as him I can see this scenario where he really can't find it either and is feeling overwhelmed.

Scum in that position digs in and fights it out, or suicides to end the day early.

Giving up without committing suicide here feels like an honestly confused townie.

[The Gambler]

So, here's how this goes: I'm going to read, let you guys do work and when you want my final reads, I'll give them.

(I'm VT, so there isn't any need for claim. This lynch will go through.)

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

Yeah....this post is horrible.

@Venmar: Seriously how hard is it to answer a question? Would be easier just to answer then complain about it.

@Tiphaine: AJ has more experience then to be in that position.

[Sajin]

So, here's how this goes: I'm going to read, let you guys do work and when you want my final reads, I'll give them.

(I'm VT, so there isn't any need for claim. This lynch will go through.)

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

Yeah....this post is horrible.

@Venmar: Seriously how hard is it to answer a question? Would be easier just to answer then complain about it.

@Tiphaine: AJ has more experience then to be in that position.

This is my hydra, my fault.

[Nachomamma8]

Because I, as a skimming reader, can't really find the case on AJ, and as him I can see this scenario where he really can't find it either and is feeling overwhelmed.

Scum in that position digs in and fights it out, or suicides to end the day early.

Giving up without committing suicide here feels like an honestly confused townie.

this is the original case:

Too many bad posts. Voting Nacho immediately because no scum would ever miller claim? Bad. If you don't think scum would do it, they'll try it. Unvoting with "Huh, interesting". Also bad. Bad scum must die, and I wish I could do math with that name but I can't.

He had reasoning for the miller tracker being scum, but instead chose to attack "bad scum die". There's no reasoning whatsoever in there, and the fact that he pretty much ignores the miller tracker after this except for "you can be whatever alignment you want" was bad. It felt like he didn't care about sorting it out at all and was just avoiding the situation because he didn't want to take sides in it. Cabd, what do you think of this point?

Why are we still on the Miller/tracker thing and not lynching scum TD? I am very mildly put off that we have yet to focus the minute attention needed to lynch that motherfucker.

Let's face it, TD is scum. If you want Sven to be scum in your happy world, that's fine, too. But confirmed scum die first.

Weird as fuck post. Ignores literally everything and says that "oh TD is still scum", doesn't add to his case or refine his read. I would expect town AJ to pick up on all the shit that happened, not just dumbtunnel TD.

You know, I was kind of upset about this, but then this:

REALLY pissed me off. How the actual fuck is that guy town?

This is not how town tries to sell a scumread. He's angry at being scumread, but that doesn't make sense considering he had not done JACK AND SHIT up to that point and he really shouldn't expect otherwise.

Post 52: The logical fallacy of "Scum would never do that and in my might 20 games, I've never seen it!" Bad logic, and if that was the case, scum would claim that shit all the time. Doesn't take a genius to figure out scum does what town is willing to give town points for.

Post 99 an unvote off of you, stating "Huh, interesting". No reason. Trying to get off without specifying what changed the opinion.

Post 278 votes sven (The "Can't be scum" guy) saying that he's done a 'shitstorm of wifom'. Guess what? That's what you get with ANY miller claim.

All of this is surface scumhunting, which is pretty much useless. AJ's not a surface scumhunter at all.

Nacho is the town-Venmar this game.
Orcinus is running in fucking circles at the moment. Varsoon is running in ovals. Varsoon was way too quick to back off his case for Orc, but even stranger is that Orc didn't hammer on Varsoon for completely disregarding orc after about 4 posts (even though he went through all that trouble for an incredibly long wall). Even worse, Orc backs off his own vote.

To be honest, I've learned from past that orc can have his say, but don't give him too much weight. It can result in catastrophe. So even considering him a 'town leader' (What, by posts? Definitely not by flips...) is presumptuous, Varsoon.

Mac is his general passive self, but that's not going to help this day.

Sven can easily be any allignment he wants to be. Give me the guilty results I want as a tracker and I'll consider your claim legitimate... Maybe. A miller doesn't usually have a secondary role. It sounds like a bail out of a wagon.

Discredit nation here. I don't like how he sort of attacks orc but not really; it lacks the balls of Varsoon's attack on him.

I'm not a perfect person... There's many things I wish I didn't do. But I continue learning~~~ I never meant to do those things to you!!

I should've said "Both of them are town, so the argument over them bickering over past games is not advancing our cause".

Dismissal of you and mollie in a TvT fight was a strong scumtell for me. Focusing on arguments and not on players, but worse yet the fact he just said that you two were both town instead of actually trying to explain his reasons was scum because it shows he doesn't care about the reads at all, just getting it out there to either discredit one of you or white knight.

Unvote

There was SOMETHING in that last ten pages that made me look back on TD a little differently. (Posts 962 and 970 of his, I believe).

Talk about shitty trajectory. You'd think town AJ would want to explain his reads switch, but NOPE.

I wish this read (On TMT) was easy to explain, but it isn't. His question to post rating is really high and content to post is really low, even when he got relatively active. Reading his iso is like reading his posts for the first time, none of them were memorable. He's flying under the radar flak of Ghost and 2 (and maybe varsoon). His list of reads felt forced, mainly because 9 null reads, not including Jon (who hasn't posted. That's 9 of 18 (Minus two for him and jon) are null to him.

NOW he's trying to explain his reads, cool. This read feels weaker than his TD read because of the way he was pushing his TD read, and the fact the read itself is hard to explain is strange. TMT was an easy read for me, and I thought that AJ was trying to give up a weaker scumpartner to save the giant of the scumteam which i assume is you. But even if that's a wrong assumption, it's strange that he picks out TMT and lets TD go for reasons~

I WANT to call orc scum, but he's just a general AtE player. I dislike his constant use of emotion, but that's more standard. His MS voting at the beginning was awful and his attacking Varsoon was backed off too early when he should've pressed forward. But otherwise, there's been nothing to give me more than casual passing glances of suspicion.

Discrediting orc.

2 is much more interesting. I've liked Buldermar's posting, but fferyllt seems scummy. Fferyllt asks a lot of questions and seems more or less passive and under the radar while Buldermar goes out and tries to push points. Just by their style, Buldermar makes statements to prove points, FF asks questions as a way of hunting, but doesn't push it beyond. Buldermar attacks, no matter how he makes others feel. Surprisingly, when FF comes on and sees tmt's reads, she doesn't mention anything to it in her quote other than it's 'good to see him posting'. The "That's all but a confirmed slot" from FF, even off of meta is bad. Something is rotten in the state of Xenoblade, and I think FF may not be hiding it all that well.

Waffles hard as fuck and kind of postures to distance from you/hop on the wagon.

I get the impression with all these "Lynch this order" lists of UN and his fucking with the town in Posh mafia. Let's not worry about that shit, you get one flip at a time and you move on. Telegraphing every person that you want dead is only going to cause the scum to kill everyone else, but congratulations on accomplishing that. The way you're negotiating lists to lynch feels very scummy. Why worry? Push a reasonable case, get the flip, move on. Nacho, I know for a fact you're smarter than this, but then you go around pretending that this isn't going to affect a scum night kill. What the hell, nacho? I expect town play from you, not that. If I didn't know Braveheart was scum, I'd be voting you for encouraging and not stopping that bullshit.

This is why I'm happy with paranoia as a towntell. Because when it's faked, holy fucking shit does it stand out.

There rest of his posts show a distinct lack of not-tunneling, which definitely isn't normal AJ town. There's also him refusing to work with a single townread which is weird as all hell; literally everyone works with townreads to some extent except for vets that think townreading is for chumps because they are batshit insane.

there's also my rebuttal of Andy's towncase if you'd want that too.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nacho: reconsidering maybe that you're right on Andy being town. But varsoon, sorry I'm not going with you on that read

I can agree with the rest of the townblock for now