Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

[Ghostlin]

I got on maybe an hour ago, and I'm up to page 5. I'm trying to catch up, but here are my notes.

TD's #52, Miller post or not withstanding was probably the dumbest/opportunist post of this game. If everyone clears an early claiming miller as innocent in every game and it's known site meta, scum will catch on and adapt. It's what scum -does-. Voting Nacho because Nacho pressured Sven is counter-intuitive. It needs to be checked.

Orc's #64 shows he actually thought about what would actually happen, particularly if Sven is a weak player.

Sven #71. I hate WIFOM and you should too. Having one scum in front often can allow other scums to hide. Having an alibi of 'I'm a Miller, don't waste your time investigating/lynching me' is also a possible play, particularly if you bother looking townie.

Cabd #76. Wrong answer. Scum would probably monopolize the confusion or even risk lynching a scum buddy for free Town points.

Nacho #89, Cabd did pull a stance, but his conjecture's wrong. It also clears him.

TD #99, WHY IS NO ONE CALLING TD ABOUT HIS REMOVING HIS VOTE FROM NACHO?

GIF #100 I retract statement on #99.

Nacho #113, his logic is horrible, but that doesn't mean he's scum. By the way, TD, how you feel about that?

BRO #114: Generally, yes, Miller claims are town. The problem with this post is the logic almost goes back and forth. Not entirely fencesitting, but..

That's it for these sets of pages. I'll try to super fast read from here on out.

[Ghostlin]

Up to Page 10:
Var #136: That usually means there's a 50/50 chance you ain't town
Sven #139: Why would you ask the first question?
Orc #141: Yes. I will lynch half a dozen reaction test guy with you too. I fucking hate reaction tests.
Sven #149: If you've ever played with Nacho he's not acutally 'being bad at this' right now.
Orc #158: GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
Mac #161: This is true of almost every claim. If you're townie, you get killed. It's why Townie's can't afford to let themselves die. Why did you feel the need to post this?
TD #168: Someone asked you a question. Please answer the question. Plus, why did you feel the need to post this?
Mac #177: WIFOM is bad, but you not giving any sort of read is more bad. (Badder?)
Mac #179: You going to be this lazy during the game? Let me know know so I can vote you.
Fuck it.

Vote: Mac

\Sven, 187: WHY WOULD YOU FULLCLAIM NOW?
Mac, 188: ....Yeah, I still like my vote on you.
Sajin, 190: Was this an RVS or a serious vote?
Andrus, 199: GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
AJ, 201: The bad: You bothered to do setup speculation in a Large Theme. The good: The TD vote isn't bad if albeit predictable.
Sajin, 202: Seeing this is not a bastard, what's the use of this question?
Varsoon, 210: I don't like this post. I think it's the whole 'gee, it'll be hard to find scum' and the 'flipping based on information' bits.
Sajin, 232: I don't think you understand what the word 'Miller' means...
GIF, 239: Not sold on that.
GIF, 246: *Groans. Expects some sort of labyrinthine reasoning involving a scum slip, or simply not reading the thread.*

[Ghostlin]

I'm still reading the thread, but I'm taking an MS break.

[Ghostlin]

Up to page 20-21. There's a lot of omission here because there's a lot of meta talk here that I don't understand, bluntly.

278, TD: “My thought process here is pretty simple guys, I voted nacho because he felt opportunistic springing on something I'd never seen happen before, but have seen scum try to get a lynch out of. He proved me wrong, so I unvoted. Now I am going to revote because of the wifom shitstorm that sven has created. “ Speaking of WIFOM...this entire post is full of it. If claiming Miller early Day 1 is part of the meta, don't you think scum wouldn't of cottoned on to it?

288, Mac: ….why are we recycling this? If the first 20 pages are nothing but Miller spec, I'll flip a table.

291, don'tfucking: ...was there a point here?

294, Sajin: OK. You can be town. Varsoon can be scum for #247. I'm OK with both.

295-303: I fell asleep here. Nothing of value.

304, Varsoon: Yeah, you need to be lynched. He's given you plenty of things to respond to.

305-316: Scum claims aside, the even idea of RVS pressure makes me queasy. Or rather, fucking worthless.

339, don't: Stop crapping up the thread. RQS/RVS was about 10 pages ago.

340, Mac: This is another post that looks town but does nothing else. Maybe lurker pressure.

347, Mac: Yes, Nacho is town. Stop agreeing with him to look town.

356, don't: I only give a shit because you're shitting up the thread with nothing useful. “Learning curve” or no, I lynch that day 1.

358, BB: Don't understand your GIF and Mac reads here. Elaborate, please?

376, Rach: Next person who setup specs gets slapped. Fair warning. Elaborate on your reads a touch?

393, Mac: Scum are less likely to NK until too late for Sven, there's just too much crap there unless they need an easy lynch to end the day. I don't understand your question to Orc...are you pushing the fact that they can be lynched later?

398, Rach: Your confusion is understandable. Read 393 above.

450, AJ: Um...why aren't we lynching Mac? I mean, TD's horrible and all, but there's Mac...

477, GIF: “Fearvote?” What do you mean, fearvote?

Scum: Mac, Varsoon, don't, TD, T+random letters and all caps

[Ghostlin]

Oh. Saying I'm taking an MS break means I'm hopping off Mafiascum.

[Ghostlin]

Your vote should always be founded on your own logic, if your own logic agrees with someone elses, is their logic makes you change yours, fine. But sheeping as pure sheeping IMO has always been and will always be wrong.

Yes, but sheeping isn't necessary scummy and this entire post says nothing. Working on reading further.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin, it's interesting that you include me in your scum-list based off of things 500 posts ago, rather than what is currently happening.
Regardless, I find it doubly neat that you're supporting the TD wagon and my own.
Put a vote somewhere.
You should probably articulate -why-.
Also, could you explain why you're supporting some of the easiest wagons at this point? Seems like you're scum trying to push them through, rather than town that's actually convinced of scum being there.

Tl;dr- I'm not convinced. Slam a vote and make an argument.

You didn't read my last post, did you. I've already placed a vote. So this entire post is not paying attention and completely fake.

[Ghostlin]

Meaning the post before you've raged and went "OH MY GOD GHOST IS SCUM FOR NOT LAYING DOWN A VOTE AND A POSITION."

[Ghostlin]

And where did I say I supported any of the early wagons? I don't think I've claimed anywhere that Sven was scum, for example...you've actually not been reading my notes, have you?

[Ghostlin]

573, Rach: Where are your scum reads? Do you have scum reads?

577, GiF: [sarcasm]Thanks...because the thread needed that...[/sarcasm]

646, Rach: What....is that a post...is this...revelant? WTF just happened?

663, TD: Could you have given us even gut reads? Checks his scum list N/M.

671, Orc: I don't know if I've ever played with Andrius, but I've read some of his games and he seems more..prolific than this.

675, Var: This shitpile gave me a headache. He wants to be friends with Orc, then votes him, then buddies him as part of the fucking reason for voting him. He's either trolling or being serious and neither one of this is protown and it's fucking CRAP.

676, Var: This just in: trying to be high king shit on high shit mountain is a fucking TOWN tell, not a SCUM one.

Varsoon's case on Orc: It's bad, and you should feel bad. No, really. PBP is a horrible way to make cases, and that's essentally what you do here. I didn't even really bother to read it.

685-686, Mac: Seriously, Mac's cruising this game. None of his posts show higher thought or anything besides things town could figure out on their own.

691, Mac: This is incredibly fence-sitty. Not on Orc, but Varshoon. Who I can't read without getting a headache, his logic is so convulted.

692, Sven: Oh, hi. No, I'm not commenting on this 'case'.

723, Mac: You want my reasoning, fine. You're being intellectually lazy, which is what they're accusing me of. A majority of your posts have been derivative reasoning to 'look town' rather than 'be town'. I've been accused of 'faking it' as scum before and honestly, you show no thought beyond the latest push and you're active enough to not be accused by lurking.

Varshoon's posts are mind-meltingly illogical, his push on me and Orc looks incredibly, incredibly fake (I've discussed this before) and his reasoning seems to be mostly based on silencing Orc, who is trying (poor guy) in directing Town. In fact, Varshoon has been trying to paying attention to certain details and ignoring others in his push for me, as evidenced in 978.

TD is much the same reasons I posted for Mac.

I don't like Don't/TMNT due to similar reasons to Mac and TD only much less posting. The words 'active lurking' come roaring to mind.

750, Var: WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ.

757, Metal Sonic: Well, ok, that's lazy too. Care to explain in any of those reasons of Town/Scum?

Scum list: Same, with a order of MS (Metal Sonic, not Mafiascum)

Slightly queasy about Andrius and Rach right now, but I've got plenty of scum reads. In fact, too many damn scum for this game.

Sven is not town, but null and I want to see what happens on subsequent days.

Town is Nacho and Orc and Sj honestly. Still reading.

[Ghostlin]

Because voting varsoon yields more results than voting TD?

And I feel like all the scum are piling onto TD which makes me nervous about him

I kinda get what you mean, but you asked which wagon push would yield more results in general. And BRO is voting Varsoon because 'he is here' and TD isn't. kinda feels like he's wanting to follow your lead a little.

BRO voted varsoon in response to my pointing out that a varsoon wagon was more productive, no?

I found his switch fairly natural

Talk to me about the wagon on TD though, I feel like we could figure something out here. Do you think he's town getting flak from scum as an easy lynch?

I'm not sure. you didn't say the Varsoon wagon was productive. BRO said Varsoon was under pressure and he wanted TD pressured too. you asked which wagon yields more results; he votes Varsoon because he is here (he isn't) and TD isn't.

I don't see that as all that natural, it felt like he was doing it because you were pointing him in that direction but he let himself be swayed easily.

TD wagon.. hard to tell with TD. his sven vote is stupid and his "everyone hates me " post is stupid but I can't differentiate that between scum/dumb town play at the moment. Aj's vote on TD is a big misrep too, TD did not vote Nacho because "no scum would ever claim miller" but because Nacho felt opportunistic. I mean, yeah sure that is SO far from the truth about Nacho but that's a big stretch of a misrep. since then, Aj has tunneled the shit out of him and apparently believes TD is "conf scum" but how he came to this conclusion is anyone's guess.

Aj's 617 is baaaaad. like the only part I agree is the "huh interesting" part but TD didn't even say scum would NEVER claim miller. in actual fact, this is what he said:

Fakeclaiming miller is a moronic and dangerous gambit that I have never actually seen a scum use, and that's in like 20+ games.

and now let's hear aj's version:

Post 52: The logical fallacy of "Scum would never do that and in my might 20 games, I've never seen it!" Bad logic, and if that was the case, scum would claim that shit all the time. Doesn't take a genius to figure out scum does what town is willing to give town points for.

sure the sven vote is weak but he's not wrong. sven has said some WIFOM things that is unnecessary, is it worthy of vote? no. is it scummy play from td or dumb town? probably dumb town. that's where I'm starting to lean.

Alright. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong, but this actually takes a lot of work, delves into the motivations of other players and shows decent logic in this post. This doesn't make him a 1000% town, but I like this post and seeing where he's going.

Unvote.

Vote: TMTOLBTWNTOF

Can we talk about this guy a little? He seems to not be providing and at least five people haven't placed a vote yet; I'm liking at least one of them for scum.

[Ghostlin]

Yes, I still like the TD and Var wagons. But seriously, his lack of posts and him doing anything this game means we should probably be looking that direction.

[Ghostlin]

Sajin's town.

Varsoon, 675 seems like you want to buddy Orc and then you vote him. Then you accuse him of trying to be 'town leader' in 676.

Explain to me the following:
675: Why would you take two diametrically opposed stances in the same post? What did it gain you, and what would the town motivation be in wanting Orc to post less? (Considering the more he posts, the easier he is to read?)

676: What would the advantage of taking a proactive role of Town Leader be scum motivated? (Keeping in mind most people scum styles aren't proactive, they're reactive?)

[Ghostlin]

The insistence on my wagon and misrep/lack of perception is what bugs me the most.
That, and, y'know, the rest of how they've played this game so far.

Still think there's scum in the active 4, but that's a case for another day.

Hey! I asked you questions. FUCKING ANSWER THEM.

[Ghostlin]

why are you staying away from us?

Mostly because nothing you posted made me react. (I think in a later post, I did do a BB comment). With 19 players I don't know if they're town or not, that'll happen.

You might not like that, but right now I have you sorted in the 'null' category. I have no great love or great hate for your posting.

P-edit: V, that's the most asinine scum tell I've seen since I've seen more than enough Town players do that as well.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin: After an ISO after Varsoon's read, scummy.

Elaborate. You have Var as a null, so how does my interaction with him seem scummy? Also, how does my last two votes and I'm quoting you here 'scumreads many people, never votes them without support,' considering my votes have been on Mac/you, neither of which anyone's joined me on?

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin gimme your scumgames.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO PRESS "SUBMIT" sdkjdfkdfklfdkldfklswakjfklfg

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1875 ---Empking's Adjective Pick, it is a slight victim of the crash; I won this game as a particular variant of Godfather scum
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=19401-- Pet's Pick by Zo, I was lynched Day 2, Mafia Ninja
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17439 --Acomist's Philosphy Mafia, I was a "Conditional Assassin", ergo a scum Vig, last one and Won
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17202 -- Fringe Season 3, I was a Mafia Traitor and I lost the game, included for the sake of completeness
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=17959 -- Mass Effect Mafia, which ended in a draw. I was part of a hydra with Mute, who I imagine has left the site--but I posted alone this game.
If you'd like proof of me sucking in Large Themes, I even have a few games of that.

[Ghostlin]

Erm that's too much to read. Are those recent ones?

@TMT: tell me what you don't like about nacho.

I left not too soon after the crash, so yes.

[Ghostlin]

Wait. No. Give me a second. There was one game I replaced INTO as scum slot and lost because the Cop outed me the Day I first posted. It's a longish game, but you only need to read Day 3 for my meta:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4972745 --Jimmy Neutron Mafia, Mafia Goon.

[Ghostlin]

p-edit- when did I say your interataction with Var was scummy?
those were iso reads, and I misrep those, I apologize. And you never backed up your vote with a scumread, you just said "oh this guy is inactive, scum is inactive, let's vote him!"

This wasn't what you said in your other elaboration post. Let me explain something about me to you; I despise lurking but I despise people avoiding prods by posting crap that is intended to make them look town even more. Until Mac's (I think it was 811) post, I really really thought he was part of the second camp.

Your reads aren't telling me much about you at all, and now you've kind of flipped slightly on your reasoning. Let me show you.

ghostlin: it feels like he doesn't give many reads, he mainly just fills his posts with random fluff to appear towny
post 1004's end
scumreads many people, never votes them without support

I've casted two votes this game. One on Mac. One on you to get Town talking about you (and to get you talking) because your entire game is shallow.

I freely admit I casted my vote on you because of the shallowness of your game. But I've not got much 'support' as you put it.

So, which is it, am I doing scumreads and not voting people without support, or do you dislike the fact my vote is on a player that before the vote was inactive?

[Ghostlin]

Also, if you find multiple people scummy, why haven't you voted yet?

[Ghostlin]

AJ:

Is TD still scum to you? You explain that Andrius explained on how Miller/Tracker might be town (which explains your switch on Sven to a null) but between your last reads post and the reads post before that, you don't mention TD at all or any rationale why TD would be a null. It's like he's fallen completely off your scum list with no rhyme or reason.

[Ghostlin]

^

Orc:

I have AJ as null---ish, but this inconsistency stuck out. I want to hear the response to this first.

[Ghostlin]

Hey guys! While we're talking about wagons:

In case I wasn't clear enough, I'm asking player-wise.
You know. Like "who did what so he's suspicious." Kind of stuff.

Ok. Let's go.

²: If it's ok, I'm going to read ² as one person and not two separate people. Same goes for Beast.

² is scum

to me because he reads TD as scum with little to no base and seems to be ignoring TD's more towny posts.
Aj The Epic:

Null-Scum

. I perceive AtE in #945 but that's pretty much it.
Andrius: Null, lack of posts.
BeautyAndTheBeast: Town. Reading well and catching things and no scumreads as of yet.
BROseidon: No reads as of yet.
Cabd:

Null-Scum

, mainly for not specifying reads in #931.
dntfkingcare: Null, lack of posts.
Ghostlin: After an ISO after Varsoon's read,

scummy

.
GuyInFreezer: Town. No scumreads. I like you asking questions.
jon_h61: no posts.
Mac: Town for the most part, but look at his #811, #821, and #831. Detailed analysis AJ is scummy, waits for nacho to vote, then says he's "considering" voting as well?!?!?
Metal Sonic: Null (no posts)
orcinus_theoriginal: Town. No scumreads, and acts and reads town.
RachMarie: Agree with Mac's #1010. Seems to be ignoring large portions of the game.
Sajin: Null.
Svenskt Stål: Active lurking, seemingly. Active early on but quieter now.

Lingering scumreads

from the claim and such.
Nachomamma8: Null. Towny early in game, but I feel a little less so about that.
TiphaineDeath: Town, scummy early in game, but did a 180
TMTOLBTWNTOF: No comment
Varsoon: Null, I'm finding it hard to read him.

P EDIT

Gif- I did not "disappear," I was reading all 42 pages and typing this read post the whole goddamn time.

Votecount 1.9

[3] Aj The Epic (Nachomamma8, Mac, orcinus_theoriginal)
[3] Ghostlin (Svenskt Stål, TiphaineDeath, Varsoon)
[3] Varsoon (Sajin, BROseidon, Cabd)
[2] TMTOLBTWNTOF (Ghostlin, Aj The Epic)
[1] ² (Andrius)
[1] BeautyAndTheBeast (Metal Sonic)
[1] TiphaineDeath (BeautyAndTheBeast)

[6] Not Voting (dntfkingcare, jon_h61, RachMarie,

TMTOLBTWNTOF

, ², GuyInFreezer)

With 20 alive, it is 11 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-06-04 10:00:00)

WHY AREN'T WE FUCKING LYNCHING TMTOLBTWNTOF WITH FIRE OUT OF THE TOWN?????

[Ghostlin]

@Ghost: Do you really find letters scummier than other players that you have scumreads on? Scummier than the other players who are currently under pressure? What is your current read on Varsoon?

First question: Yes and no. He's not the worst offender, no doubt about that, but he's responded pretty poorly to pressure. And no one's called him on it.

My biggest thing right now is he's posted a reads list, called a number of people varying degrees of scum and hasn't even bothered to place a single vote yet. That's not just fence sitting, that's extreme fence sitting. He should be getting an ass rash from the board so far up his butt.

He's willing to call me and others scummy, but isn't willing to back it up with any kind of stance.

And it's frustrating me that the only other player that sees it:

1) is someone I'm completely ambivalent on my read of
2) thinks I'm scum.

A lot of people on my scum list are people who are gliding through this game. I'll own that right now. I also see no need to accelerate any wagon at this point with the amount of time left in the game. And my reads haven't changed a whole lot because of that, but I'll talk about a read I'm struggling with in the next part of this post.

Question 2: Yes, Letters is scummier than most other players under pressure. He's scummier than me, for example. AJ's got a bit more history to his reads, for example, and I don't think we'll get more out of TD. (Who I don't get muitiple player's reads on, but OK.) I'm not really contemplating either hydra for scum, not a lot has stuck out about either one of them that's makes me go 'wow, that's incredibly scummy.' He may not have been worse than Sven under pressure, but Sven was the type of bad (note I didn't say scummy) that only town can be that orgasmically, horribly bad.

Question 3: Are you in for a fucking treat. I'm going to let you in my head. There are two things warring here. Town reads and scum reads.

The town reads are that Vashoon seems to be an attention whore, being in the middle of everything. He's hard to ignore (even though Orc faked shooting him) and generally if you're annoying and kind of attention whorish, you tend to be town.

The second read is his love of reaction tests. I don't like reaction tests. Generally, they crap up the thread and you lynch someone who's innocent. I can give you at least one good example of reaction test gone horribly wrong. Generally, however, the people who execute them are Town, however I'm sure scum love their fallout because there's nothing better to scum than a lynch on a player that might not fucking suck.

However, the majority of the time, they're executed by players who are predominately Town.

On the OTHER side of the street, he does things that aren't in Town's interest or don't help Town scum hunt at fucking all.

The Orc reaction test in 676, 678, 679 did nothing but confirm one player's alignment and potentially was an attempt to discredit a protown player was leading Town. Now, I'm a fan of PoE as much as the next guy, but confirming townies is not as good as finding scum. And since Orc 'passed' the test, scum know at least one protown player they can shoot at. (Also, at the end of the day, we only have Vashoon's word that pushing Orc was a reaction test.)

He went on a clip about how awesome it would be to be a dayvig--which is not right reaction to being shot. He should of posted reads. Yes, Orc's 'shot' seems a bit obvious, but why would you leave anything to fucking chance?

His last post is crap, and he's said things like 'if Ghostlin was here, I'd vote him'. When has that stopped anyone from voting anyone, particularly since the number of people who magically appear after their name is mentioned?

He is, at the moment, still leaning scum for me, but I don't think he's the play of the day unless we get closer to deadline.

Here's why: There are people who are active lurking, and lurking (and not scum hunting) that scum will happily keep around for us so we can hit conversation roadblocks and generally be as fucking useless as herpes in the last days of the game. Day 1 is a good time to find an active lurking scum and hang him, hence my obsession with that and letters.

Vashoon is unlikely to ever shut up. Particularly if it pisses off Orc, which has seemed to be the primary goal of his game up until now. I don't particularly want him around, but there are other fish we can be frying.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghost: Do you really find letters scummier than other players that you have scumreads on? Scummier than the other players who are currently under pressure? What is your current read on Varsoon?

First question: Yes and no. He's not the worst offender, no doubt about that, but he's responded pretty poorly to pressure. And no one's called him on it.

My biggest thing right now is he's posted a reads list, called a number of people varying degrees of scum and hasn't even bothered to place a single vote yet. That's not just fence sitting, that's extreme fence sitting. He should be getting an ass rash from the board so far up his butt.

He's willing to call me and others scummy, but isn't willing to back it up with any kind of stance.

And it's frustrating me that the only other player that sees it:

1) is someone I'm completely ambivalent on my read of
2) thinks I'm scum.

A lot of people on my scum list are people who are gliding through this game. I'll own that right now. I also see no need to accelerate any wagon at this point with the amount of time left in the game. And my reads haven't changed a whole lot because of that, but I'll talk about a read I'm struggling with in the next part of this post.

Question 2: Yes, Letters is scummier than most other players under pressure. He's scummier than me, for example. AJ's got a bit more history to his reads, for example, and I don't think we'll get more out of TD. (Who I don't get muitiple player's reads on, but OK.) I'm not really contemplating either hydra for scum, not a lot has stuck out about either one of them that's makes me go 'wow, that's incredibly scummy.' He may not have been worse than Sven under pressure, but Sven was the type of bad (note I didn't say scummy) that only town can be that orgasmically, horribly bad.

Question 3: Are you in for a fucking treat. I'm going to let you in my head. There are two things warring here. Town reads and scum reads.

The town reads are that Vashoon seems to be an attention whore, being in the middle of everything. He's hard to ignore (even though Orc faked shooting him) and generally if you're annoying and kind of attention whorish, you tend to be town.

The second read is his love of reaction tests. I don't like reaction tests. Generally, they crap up the thread and you lynch someone who's innocent. I can give you at least one good example of reaction test gone horribly wrong. Generally, however, the people who execute them are Town, however I'm sure scum love their fallout because there's nothing better to scum than a lynch on a player that might not fucking suck.

However, the majority of the time, they're executed by players who are predominately Town.

On the OTHER side of the street, he does things that aren't in Town's interest or don't help Town scum hunt at fucking all.

The Orc reaction test in 676, 678, 679 did nothing but confirm one player's alignment and potentially was an attempt to discredit a protown player was leading Town. Now, I'm a fan of PoE as much as the next guy, but confirming townies is not as good as finding scum. And since Orc 'passed' the test, scum know at least one protown player they can shoot at. (Also, at the end of the day, we only have Vashoon's word that pushing Orc was a reaction test.)

He went on a clip about how awesome it would be to be a dayvig--which is not right reaction to being shot. He should of posted reads. Yes, Orc's 'shot' seems a bit obvious, but why would you leave anything to fucking chance?

His last post is crap, and he's said things like 'if Ghostlin was here, I'd vote him'. When has that stopped anyone from voting anyone, particularly since the number of people who magically appear after their name is mentioned?

He is, at the moment, still leaning scum for me, but I don't think he's the play of the day unless we get closer to deadline.

Here's why: There are people who are active lurking, and lurking (and not scum hunting) that scum will happily keep around for us so we can hit conversation roadblocks and generally be as fucking useless as herpes in the last days of the game. Day 1 is a good time to find an active lurking scum and hang him, hence my obsession with that and letters.

Vashoon is unlikely to ever shut up. Particularly if it pisses off Orc, which has seemed to be the primary goal of his game up until now. I don't particularly want him around, but there are other fish we can be frying.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghost: Do you really find letters scummier than other players that you have scumreads on? Scummier than the other players who are currently under pressure? What is your current read on Varsoon?

First question: Yes and no. He's not the worst offender, no doubt about that, but he's responded pretty poorly to pressure. And no one's called him on it.

My biggest thing right now is he's posted a reads list, called a number of people varying degrees of scum and hasn't even bothered to place a single vote yet. That's not just fence sitting, that's extreme fence sitting. He should be getting an ass rash from the board so far up his butt.

He's willing to call me and others scummy, but isn't willing to back it up with any kind of stance.

And it's frustrating me that the only other player that sees it:

1) is someone I'm completely ambivalent on my read of
2) thinks I'm scum.

A lot of people on my scum list are people who are gliding through this game. I'll own that right now. I also see no need to accelerate any wagon at this point with the amount of time left in the game. And my reads haven't changed a whole lot because of that, but I'll talk about a read I'm struggling with in the next part of this post.

Question 2: Yes, Letters is scummier than most other players under pressure. He's scummier than me, for example. AJ's got a bit more history to his reads, for example, and I don't think we'll get more out of TD. (Who I don't get muitiple player's reads on, but OK.) I'm not really contemplating either hydra for scum, not a lot has stuck out about either one of them that's makes me go 'wow, that's incredibly scummy.' He may not have been worse than Sven under pressure, but Sven was the type of bad (note I didn't say scummy) that only town can be that orgasmically, horribly bad.

Question 3: Are you in for a fucking treat. I'm going to let you in my head. There are two things warring here. Town reads and scum reads.

The town reads are that Vashoon seems to be an attention whore, being in the middle of everything. He's hard to ignore (even though Orc faked shooting him) and generally if you're annoying and kind of attention whorish, you tend to be town.

The second read is his love of reaction tests. I don't like reaction tests. Generally, they crap up the thread and you lynch someone who's innocent. I can give you at least one good example of reaction test gone horribly wrong. Generally, however, the people who execute them are Town, however I'm sure scum love their fallout because there's nothing better to scum than a lynch on a player that might not fucking suck.

However, the majority of the time, they're executed by players who are predominately Town.

On the OTHER side of the street, he does things that aren't in Town's interest or don't help Town scum hunt at fucking all.

The Orc reaction test in 676, 678, 679 did nothing but confirm one player's alignment and potentially was an attempt to discredit a protown player was leading Town. Now, I'm a fan of PoE as much as the next guy, but confirming townies is not as good as finding scum. And since Orc 'passed' the test, scum know at least one protown player they can shoot at. (Also, at the end of the day, we only have Vashoon's word that pushing Orc was a reaction test.)

He went on a clip about how awesome it would be to be a dayvig--which is not right reaction to being shot. He should of posted reads. Yes, Orc's 'shot' seems a bit obvious, but why would you leave anything to fucking chance?

His last post is crap, and he's said things like 'if Ghostlin was here, I'd vote him'. When has that stopped anyone from voting anyone, particularly since the number of people who magically appear after their name is mentioned?

He is, at the moment, still leaning scum for me, but I don't think he's the play of the day unless we get closer to deadline.

Here's why: There are people who are active lurking, and lurking (and not scum hunting) that scum will happily keep around for us so we can hit conversation roadblocks and generally be as fucking useless as herpes in the last days of the game. Day 1 is a good time to find an active lurking scum and hang him, hence my obsession with that and letters.

Vashoon is unlikely to ever shut up. Particularly if it pisses off Orc, which has seemed to be the primary goal of his game up until now. I don't particularly want him around, but there are other fish we can be frying.

[Ghostlin]

Oh, that's just fucking grand.

[Ghostlin]

12:17 A.M (I'll Iso Tiphaine)
12:18 A.M (Ok, I just isoed tiphaine)

Yeah, no.

vote metal sonic

I swear this guy is so scummy and you're all fucking retarded.

- b

I don't like TD either, but he has a point here. I've never fucking read something in ISO, understood what the author's trying to say and vote in under a minute.

Try it sometime.

[Ghostlin]

Lesson of the week: Never replace into a game with 57 pages at Day 1


@Nacho maybe you should iso tiphainedeath its terrible

help me understand why he's on your town list(and I, not)

Pot. Meet Kettle. Really, do you remember when BROsideon asked me if there were greater scum reads than T+random letters?

Yeah, the badness of this post and the hypocrisy here make me want to vomit. TD ain't town, and Sonic's not town for many of the same reasons. His TD push seems fake (beyond the minute time stamp, but that was a good catch) and his scum/town list is vapid.

Also, asking to be cleared by Nacho, who has been so obvTown most of this game is bad. I could get into why it's bad, but I'm so covered in bullshit from this post I've got to take a shower.

[Ghostlin]

Nacho was saying it was a scum slip because Rev claimed Miller, not miller tracker. Sven only claimed tracker later in the thread, so it would be hard to see on first look

,

especially is scum doesn't have day-talk

.

Something was bothering me about this post, and I thought it was an painfully obvious scum slip, but it's not (is should be if).

It's that you start with one premise that's inherently Town, and then you slide into the premise that Rev's scum. (Or rather, one premise that's inherently neutral, at worst.) I can easily buy for a nice amount of US dollars that Rev hasn't reached or hasn't seen the Tracker addition to Sven's claim yet; but then you put 'especially if scum don't have day-talk.'

What does the green part have to do with the red part? If it was easy to miss, a town player could do it, why would it involve scum having Day talk or not? (Or, more simply: why did you rear end a possibly town premise with some sort of scum justification?)

I don't buy Nacho's assertion that it's a scum slip. What I think happened is he got to Page 1, decided to confirm the Miller part of the role before going forward and finding the Tracker part.

[Ghostlin]

12:17 A.M (I'll Iso Tiphaine)
12:18 A.M (Ok, I just isoed tiphaine)

Yeah, no.

vote metal sonic

I swear this guy is so scummy and you're all fucking retarded.

- b

I don't like TD either, but he has a point here. I've never fucking read something in ISO, understood what the author's trying to say and vote in under a minute.

Try it sometime.

I've done that countless times. If you're selectively looking for something it really isn't that difficult.

- b

Yes, but who reads an ISO looking for something specific except scum?

Bluntly, if I'm going in to reading something for Town, I don't go, 'hrr, let's see which of my Ghost approved town reads this pings' (and since a lot of my reads are behavioral, I need to actually read the

fucking

thread. A single turn of phrase won't do it for me).

Scum can sometimes stick out in a few posts, but I personally like to read the whole thing in case the whole thing turns schizophrenic for me. And it sometimes does. (Read my response to BROsideon for an example.)

No, I don't buy that he, under a minute, gave it a nice, thoughtful read and posted something like this. It's taken me three at least just to TYPE THIS.

[Ghostlin]

wow that is a ton of pages to catch up on....

Was gone a big chunk of yesterday and was falling asleep in the chair last night so decided to finish catching up today.

Welcome to the madhouse ... I mean the game, yeah the game... Rev.

Will look up games for Rev and Jon I think I have one completed with each and in both they were Town.

Replace stupid with scummy, and this sums up my feelings.

[Ghostlin]

*Sigh*. Here's the link: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4551771392/h6E68C766/

[Ghostlin]

Am I the only one that thinks this is suuuuuper scummy

Yes. That's mostly because you're scum. It's a halfway valid point. You either post, forget the game or try to avoid to giving out info in a set of annoying prod dodges that do shit.

[Ghostlin]

Ghost do you have anything else besides the whole calling me stupid and trolling? Cause yeah not impressed with that, though overall you seem towny I still need to really look over your ISO more Unlike the TD dude you actually have posted a fair bit.

Nah, I meant to call you trolling and/or scummy. You're a null mostly because I can't read you and that this point of the game, I'm willing to let that lie mostly because if you keep talking you might sway me one way or another.

[Ghostlin]

So, the gambit we were all waiting for breaks

site wide rules

(it's there), and involves

setup speculation

, which the mod should of taken care of.

If I wasn't inclined to believe this is just really bad play regardless of alignment, I'd call it scummy to try to get someone modkilled.

[Ghostlin]

Makes me think--in a Lylo situation, all players could quote their role PMs directly, and the one guy who isn't modkilled is the scum, because he would have to lie or be modkilled. Then again, I guess if everyone is modkilled, there's no one to lynch the remaining scum.

WHAT THE FUCK. WHY WOULD YOUR BRAIN EVEN GO HERE??

[Ghostlin]

I'm reading varsoon's ISO and I'd like to rephrase that last comment...

varsoon is scum and it's obvious as shit.

Elaborate. I have him as a null-scum, and I know others see him as town.

[Ghostlin]

I've never read town write "Wow, just wow."
Scumslip.

God damn it, I hate this reasoning, it's a sack of shit from the abyss. 95% of 'scumslips' aren't.

Unlike reaction tests, the majority of players that accuse of scum slips aren't necessarily town.

TD's horrible because he's posting in a way that doesn't involve a huge amount of scum hunting and isn't alignment indicative. (Generally, people who are Town want to be helpful in this regard.) Not because of "wow, just wow."

You're almost playing this game like scum Ghostlin would play it, create as much chaos as possible, keep people guessing if you're town or scum, and then ride the bullshit wave to a victory. Be sure not to include any actual thoughts beyond the most shallow, you can't fake reasoning well anyhow. (Yes. Self-meta's useless, but you're acting in a way I feel I would act if I got a scum role.)

The 'gambit' that I thought only Town would be dumb enough to suggest..I'm still wrapping my head around if that's still true, because you act a little insanely stupid and then you slip me a mindfuck mickey.

[Ghostlin]

I strongly believe Varsoon for town.

Rev, back off

HOW? Explain to me how Varsoon can be strongly believed for Town.

[Ghostlin]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Your demonic glee at Varshoon's gambit and trying to lead Town indicate two things to me:

1) You're Town
2) You're glad to see Varshoon fail at this.

[Ghostlin]

Scum, in order of most to least:

TMT/MS, TD, Vashoon/KBW (both of the last two vacillate from null-scum to scum). Can explain my reads if you like, but a lot of them are activity/behavior based. Possible side order of AJ, but I'm not sure I dislike him as much as the five above. 1450 pinged something fierce; I explain it in 1455. We can lynch don't as well, he's not contributed when he was here.

Cannot read worth a damn, from likelihood of scum motivation to least:

Rach (if she's not Town trollling, she might be scum), 2/BB (hydras are hard for me to read)

Null:

People not listed above or below

Null-town, from most Town to least:

Andrius (I'm not thrilled with his level of activity, but when he posts, he posts Town), Rev (I don't buy the whole argument that Sven would claim miller tracker and not be Town. Also, his VIness was a Town VIness, not scum being coy. That said, this read is mostly hinged on these two suspicions. He's not someone we can take to LYLO for example. Nacho will remember this, hopefully: remember when I lynched a Doctor Day 3 (Mute) because he protected twice in a row and I was paranoid. You were the scum IC that game. It's kinda like this with scum unlikely to perform a kill and everyone will question Rev's role for the rest of the game.) Sajin (had an early town read on him from his posts, particularly 294 when he pushed the lynch aggressively, but he's not been doing the same quality work)

Town, most to least:

Nacho, who generally has been working harder than anyone to figure shit out, Orc, who has been trying to direct Town traffic all game. GiF, who's asking the right questions--although, where'd he go?

[Ghostlin]

Claiming vanillager is suspect at best,

This sounds like you suspect Varshoon's a VT. Last I checked, he didn't claim this..

[Ghostlin]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Your demonic glee at Varshoon's gambit and trying to lead Town indicate two things to me:

1) You're Town
2) You're glad to see Varshoon fail at this.

bad logic here.

maybe he just found it really funny that it would break the rules so brazenly? I know I did.

The first has nothing to do with the giggling, really, but the 'trying to lead Town part'.

[Ghostlin]

Varshoon, I'm going to do this in four of his posts. The rest are kind of too shallow for me to do much with. Here's his initial reads post:

In case I wasn't clear enough, I'm asking player-wise.
You know. Like "who did what so he's suspicious." Kind of stuff.

Ok. Let's go.

²: If it's ok, I'm going to read ² as one person and not two separate people. Same goes for Beast.

² is scum

to me because he reads TD as scum with little to no base and seems to be ignoring TD's more towny posts.
Aj The Epic:

Null-Scum

. I perceive AtE in #945 but that's pretty much it.
Andrius: Null, lack of posts.
BeautyAndTheBeast: Town. Reading well and catching things and no scumreads as of yet.
BROseidon: No reads as of yet.
Cabd:

Null-Scum

, mainly for not specifying reads in #931.
dntfkingcare: Null, lack of posts.
Ghostlin: After an ISO after Varsoon's read,

scummy

.
GuyInFreezer: Town. No scumreads. I like you asking questions.
jon_h61: no posts.
Mac: Town for the most part, but look at his #811, #821, and #831. Detailed analysis AJ is scummy, waits for nacho to vote, then says he's "considering" voting as well?!?!?
Metal Sonic: Null (no posts)
orcinus_theoriginal: Town. No scumreads, and acts and reads town.
RachMarie: Agree with Mac's #1010. Seems to be ignoring large portions of the game.
Sajin: Null.
Svenskt Stål: Active lurking, seemingly. Active early on but quieter now.

Lingering scumreads

from the claim and such.
Nachomamma8: Null. Towny early in game, but I feel a little less so about that.
TiphaineDeath: Town, scummy early in game, but did a 180
TMTOLBTWNTOF: No comment
Varsoon: Null, I'm finding it hard to read him.

P EDIT

Gif- I did not "disappear," I was reading all 42 pages and typing this read post the whole goddamn time.

No vote. At this point his primary scum reads I could tell are me and 2, and he couldn't place a vote on either of us. This is a post we've literally been waiting pages for, and he's not secure enough in his reads to plop down a vote?

Next post:

Hey TMT in case you missed it I asked you a question.

I missed it. Where.

Disagree with metal sonic, Aj, Varsoon, BRO, and Cabd

I mean... there's a reason those are his read...

Hey TMT, mind joining us? I seem to think you have developed a couple of votes and produced a lot more null reads last time around.

Most of my null reads are because of the fact that certain people haven't posted a lot and most of it was low-content.

Ok I've gone over my scumreads and decided which one was scummiest, and it's between 2 and Aj. At this point I believe it's VOTE: Aj

Also, Ghostlin is not scum

P-edit Metal give reasons now plz

This post is bad when you consider he's not talked about AJ for a while and his reasoning for not liking AJ is AtE in one post in his reads posts. Yes, it can be an indicator that individual is not scum hunting, and a scum player freaking out all over town. Also, I'm thrilled he considers me not scum now as of this post, but there's not much logic as to why not. I can deduce he's sheeping a lot of folks who changed from scum or vocally said I was Town about this range of posts/pages.

Ok jon is clearly not scum, unless he's deliberately being quiet so he can pretend to have forgotten the game. No-one forgets a game in which they're scum.

Am I the only one that thinks this is suuuuuper scummy

Also GIF did you ask me a question that I did not answer
Also did anyone else ask me a question that I did not answer

At best, this is reaching. At worst he's trying to accuse the Rev of being scum because he said you don't forget games which you are scum. Which is true--I sorta explain this in another post.

UNVOTE: Aj
Changed my mind about AJ, I think he's town.

Reverend goes into my town pile as well.

What are your other reads besides Varsoon?

The problem is not the fact that AJ went into this town pile. Where's the vote on 2? Where's a vote at all?

[Ghostlin]

Summation of TMT case:

His pushes have been soft when he's pushed at all and make no sense towards any meaningful scum hunting. He's suspected 2 over at least two posts but has yet to vote them (it's a hydra). He does jump off AJ with little reasoning, but his soft push towards 2 seems to be weak without any meaning. He's not really scum hunting, and his opinions about certain players seems to match the temperature of the room at the time (myself, AJ, 2). It's pretty likely he's scum, and he's giving out other tells, such as being quiet and waiting for his wagon (the second highest lynch wagon right now besides 2) to pass. While I find 2 hard to read, if TMT goes down today as scum, the likelihood of 2 scum goes up.

[Ghostlin]

Prediction:

TMT will not vote 2 unless pressured or at the end of the day when he can claim 'Town points' for hammering them.

[Ghostlin]

WAAAAIIIT a minute. how do you have nacho and orc down as town for the reasons you gave and me as scum when they are both sheeping my reads? like how does that even work?

No. The cannot read a damn pile is for people I can't read a damn. There's an a greater likelihood you're probably Town, and I'm really, really not interested in a 2 lynch at this time, for example or a you lynch. That's why the list is from what I see as possible most scummy motivation to least scummy motivation.

Rach, maybe, but I can't help her trolling the thread has some arcane purpose. Stranger things have happened.

Varsoon, for example.

Why not place the hydras as null with Rach? Because I can't even read you as that, really. A null is someone who's either given me equal reads or hasn't pinged me with their towniness/scuminess. You and 2, I'm literally stumbling around in the dark, looking for a flashlight. Then again, I'm not good at hydrae.

[Ghostlin]

Here's some disjointed reading of that pile:

Rach:

is nearly impossible for me to read because of the trolling. I'm almost ready to sheep everyone else, but the trolling could be more sinister, like I think Varshoon mindfucking the thread is.

2:

I have an association tell that might not be accurate or reversible if TMT flips scum, which I'm expecting he will. No one's bit on this assumption. Regardless, the tell would be greater if we lynched TMT, NOT 2 today. Otherwise? It reads two people occupying a mafia slot, neither one of them scummy and I'm not going into the WIFOM that's by design.

You (Beauty and the Beast):

Read like two people occupying a mafia slot, neither one of you are pinging my scumdar. I've not been ignoring what you're saying, and I know you've been sheeped by many Town members, and the results of that sheeping might help me uncover your alignment, but there's not much there, and I'm not going to unsheep an unknown in my calculations on who is scum.

Regardless, lynching 2/BB is a bad play today and no one is interested enough in Rach and I'm not in the mood in that kind of PL anyway. If we lynched Don't's slot, that'd be another thing.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: unsheep an unknown=sheep an unknown

[Ghostlin]

ghostlin, how about you tell me what do you find scummy so that we can have some interaction that will firm up your read.

If I told you literally nothing, would you lynch me for telling the truth? Because that's the truth.

You don't seem to be engaged in obfuscatory behavior like Varshoon; you're not posting reads with no rhyme, reason or meaning like MS; you're definitely accurate and there's something to read unlike TD; you've read my TMT case by now--I forgot to mention the rest of his posts are fluff, and KBW has done all of the above, plus has utterly failed to turn around a slot I didn't like for it's lack of contribution.

But I can't read you the same way I read a single player. I've found, at least in my case, hydrae don't necessarily work that way. I want to desperately believe you guys are Town, but I can't invest the head capital in it.

[Ghostlin]

^Although, to TBF, you get a Town cookie for making me think and and engage with that question.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP 2140: When I'm talking about 2 occupying a mafia slot, you should read this as mafia, the game, not the fact I think think they are mafia. I'll generally use scum or scummy.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin.

how can BatB read like two people occupying a mafia slot when none of them are pinging your scumdar? I could be wrong here but what I am reading is you classing them as scummy because there are two heads rather than a single head which is rather poor. I just don't understand your logic here. BatB is in the town bloc because they are pretty much universally read as town; you should probably just sheep the remainder of the town bloc's read on them rather than class them as scum because you can't read them.

I'm not even sure that para makes sense and could absolutely crumble if I am misunderstanding you.

Read 2144, Mac. I'm referring to the game mafia. I actually generally do NOT use the term mafia to describe scum.

[Ghostlin]

ghostlin, how about you tell me what do you find scummy so that we can have some interaction that will firm up your read.

If I told you literally nothing, would you lynch me for telling the truth? Because that's the truth.

You don't seem to be engaged in obfuscatory behavior like Varshoon; you're not posting reads with no rhyme, reason or meaning like MS;

you're definitely accurate

and there's something to read unlike TD; you've read my TMT case by now--I forgot to mention the rest of his posts are fluff, and KBW has done all of the above, plus has utterly failed to turn around a slot I didn't like for it's lack of contribution.

But I can't read you the same way I read a single player. I've found, at least in my case, hydrae don't necessarily work that way. I want to desperately believe you guys are Town, but I can't invest the head capital in it.

what am I definitely accurate about?

Generally, when I read you, you have precise opinions and reads. For example, you just, under full disclosure, explained to Varshoon that the 'I don't fit in' AtE will not work with you and that you and three other people who read you as Town are working together in a mob to root out scum. It's accurate to your game state through the posts I've read, I know exactly what the fuck it is you're thinking/doing, and I don't have to dig for motivation there (and with a 85 page Day 1, I'll do it but I don't like it).

[Ghostlin]

this guy.

"This guy?" Who are you referring to?

BNB, this is an example of an inaccurate post. I don't know TD's motivations for finding the above scum, and having to ask for 'this guy' irritates and annoys me.

I generally don't like being mindfucked and having to ask the followup question to a role that should be eager to feed me information, hence I don't find TD town.

TD: explanations on your reads?

[Ghostlin]

I see Ghost; didn't get a pedit. However the point still stands, surely you should find them null instead of scummy if there is literally nothing pinging your scumdar?

and mollie, why is Majiffy so quiet? I'd expect him to be preaching about how scummy I am by now.

I didn't, in any way, shape or form state they were scummy.

I think you're getting a hang up that the 'I can't read you' list is hanging around near the scum list, which is probably bad list design, but that list shouldn't be determined in the scumpile...they're people I can't read.

[Ghostlin]

About Rach 'trolling'.

Trolling isn't really the right word, it's more that she'll post stuff that I don't see the use of in this game. It's like she's catching up with friends, somewhat, not the thread. Here are some examples:

Cabd ehh did you pull a scum slot this time around?

I have been playing catch up here so yeah give me a bit more time before writing me off. I had a computer too when we played in that game.

my head hurts

get that self vote off of you orc and stop that nonsense... There can one be ONE Rach and thats me and I almost never self vote so yeah

Fery why are you so sure that Sven is town?

Pedit good you unvoted

hey I paid attention to you I told you to post more

good news NS drug out his old computer and hooked it up it is slow as fuck but gives us sort of 2 computer access til I can buy a new one

lol its not

oh yeah and Nacho was scum in that game he replaced Sex lol

I forget but someone asked about why I was leaning Town on Cabd and I mentioned playing with him before so this is the link to that game.

no comment there though I will point out that Nacho did not replace Sex this time

now you are in the right game

I am sure Sanjay will delete that post in Popcorn

It makes it hard to read, and I'm not sure of some of the references she's dropping DO have something to do with the game and I'm missing the in-joke.

[Ghostlin]

5/15 isn't bad, but 14/3/3 is more likely IMO. Particularly with heavy PRs on all 3 sides. Expect an informative role on each scum team, plus a protective role for one, a roleblocker for another, maybe a strongman-type for each side, and a slew of PRs for town.

Multiball isn't *standard*, but it's pretty typical for larger games.

Balancing Multiball is actually a lot easier than you think. The only thing that sucks is being a mod who made a multiball game and watching town rip all the teams apart...

p-edit: if it's just one team, I would expect 5 scum, yeah.

This isn't scummy, btw, or any indication of BnB's alignment, but I hate posts like this about setup speculation--worrying how many scum there are doesn't matter whether it's 5/15, 14/3/3, 15/4/1; and it generally gives scum places to not comment or hide in the speculation.

People who post this speculation are trying to figure out the game, so that piece I'm OK with.

[Ghostlin]

Hey, B2B and GiF, why aren't you voting yet?

The other players I care about two, but the other's are obvious scumreads or being replaced.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: two=too

[Ghostlin]

I'm starting to suspect we might have a lyncher/lynchee... but I'm not sure if that's the sort of thing that would be in a game like this. Would explain a lot though.

Why this particular train of thought, and not the normal game states of Town pushing scum, town pushing each other? What about this tunnelling and pressure made you think lyncher specifically out of the hundreds of games on this site where this happens every day?

[Ghostlin]

To the rest of town: I'm trying to focus on a Cabd read, and his voice is coming off a little passive to me. Is that usual in Cabd town or scum, does anyone know?

Also, I hated 2349, but not because of indoctrination or the like. No, I hate it for more vain reasons: it doesn't include anything I've done, said or contributed.

[Ghostlin]

Also, if anyone wants me to comment about the 2/BB thing: I don't have a side. It reads like the same bickering that goes on in these games. I'm not even fucking calling the argument town versus town, but player(s) v. player(s).

[Ghostlin]

Metal sonic went and hid once pressure went away. Can haz counterwagon instead of twidling thumbs and chasing own tails while waiting for orc and nacho to get back?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Metal Sonic

We has one. It's the TMT wagon.

[Ghostlin]

no I meant who is she in the game? not that Rev claimed her

Rach: http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Tyrea

I'm reading that now.

[Ghostlin]

Alright. For lack of a better term, and forgive me, I'm trying to work this shit out since I've not played the game: It looks like she starts out as a boss, but you can do stuff with her that makes her a...quasi good guy? later. Which explains the Miller. I'm not going to assume what the Tracker might mean, might not mean, in the form of the setup.

[Ghostlin]

"You can do stuff with her to make her good girl"
A+ summary

It's 'quasi good guy?'. (Dare someone to make that a title request)

The flavor from the wiki doesn't make me distrust Rev's Miller claim. Not totally certain of Tracker, but since I'm feeling Rev's not the play today, it's nice to know it checks out.

[Ghostlin]

Hey! BnB, 2: Cut the it the fuck out. Really, it's day ONE and we're at 105 pages, and you guys been quarreling over how much you hate each other for at least five of that. We need input on who's scum, not four people who can't restrain their dislike of each other in thread.

[Ghostlin]

So, I realize it's muitiball, but I started here; last night's wagon:

(Andrius, orcinus_theoriginal, Nachomamma8, BROseidon, Sajin, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, GuyInFreezer, TheReverend (hey I was right, boo), Varsoon, Venmar).

That's the wagon for last night. I have town reads on Orc, Andrius, Nach, BNB, GIF, and the Rev. Presuming at least one scum is on that wagon that leaves

Mac (which simplifies things, but I didn't have him down as a likely scum buddy), Varsoon, Venmar, Sajin and BROsideon.

Before I cut to the chase and reveal which of the 4 I found the scummiest, I'd like to ask Varsoon a question:

Varsoon: what was going through your head/what were you thinking when you laid down the 2 vote?

[Ghostlin]

Why do you presume at least one scum is on the wagon

And how do you know it's multiball?

Math wise, if we presume 5 scum, and there are 11 people on the wagon...let's just say the odds of someone NOT bussing aren't grand.

Muitiball was a presumption with multiple kills and no claimed Vig--I tend to presume the worse, but we could have an SK or an unclaimed Vig.

[Ghostlin]

Why do you presume at least one scum is on the wagon

And how do you know it's multiball?

Math wise, if we presume 5 scum, and there are 11 people on the wagon...let's just say the odds of someone NOT bussing aren't grand.

Muitiball was a presumption with multiple kills and no claimed Vig--I tend to presume the worse, but we could have an SK or an unclaimed Vig.

um no

I could randomly generate 11 people and then say that there is at least one scum in tht list and my results would be just as meaningful

Well, yes, I was getting to that, DAMMIT, BUT I WANT VASHOON TO ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION BEFORE I GET TO WHAT I FOUND.

IS THAT OK? THE QUESTION DOES HAVE FUCKING BEARING ON WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT AND THE HUNTING I DID LAST NIGHT.

[Ghostlin]

You are an idiot for claiming and your anger looks incredibly untownie

Ghostlin and I are neighbors

..Um, now you're what the fucking me. No, literally, you're dropping acid..

I didn't even barely softclaim that; you presumed I was talking about you.

How, I might as well fucking confirm it. We are fucking neighbors.

[Ghostlin]

Oh

Shit

I read that post wrong


I'm sorry I'm so sleep deprived

Go to bed, Orc. You're probably seeing double. That was genuine frustration at you, tho'.

[Ghostlin]

But I saw your post and realized that your reasoning doesn't actually make sense wrt POE in 2 wagon.

OK. Random-wise, you're right, it doesn't make sense except I suspect certain people being Town. Now, 11 players out of 20, 1 being scum...isn't rubbish, actually. That said, I did find some things in the ISOs.

Although not Venmar's ISO, because don'tfuckingcare didn't really fucking care.

[Ghostlin]

I picture a 50 foot wall between these 2 houses complete with spiked fences. Do you know anything else about each other besides that the other is your neighbor? Yes or no is fine.

Also how long is your conversation (post count of your quicktopic, or length)

Are you day neighbors? Or just night?

No, roughly 15 posts, only night talk.

[Ghostlin]

But I saw your post and realized that your reasoning doesn't actually make sense wrt POE in 2 wagon.

OK. Random-wise, you're right, it doesn't make sense except I suspect certain people being Town. Now, 11 players out of 20, 1 being scum...isn't rubbish, actually. That said, I did find some things in the ISOs.

Although not Venmar's ISO, because don'tfuckingcare didn't really fucking care.

Okay but a case that is built with the mindset of POE in a random 11 person sample doesn't sit right with me. I for one think it completely possible that no scum were on the wagon. Not likely but certainly possible.

I think you should scumhunt without using that as your starting point

I have been, for the most part. I've been using it to widen my net--or more to the point, who's been eluding my focus up until now that we have a flip.

[Ghostlin]

Bad question or not, I'm confused and it would really be nice if somebody would put on an IC hat for a second and explain it.

Talking about the kill done at night does nothing but create unnecessary WIFOM (particularly Day 2, with no other associations). Sometimes mafia will kill players you don't expect to manufacture this WIFOM.

Now, there are a number of players already guilty of this, including myself; but that's the general reason why not.

[Ghostlin]

...wagon requires 11/20 players.
Good chance that in HALF the playerlist, there's at least ONE scum.

it's the majority of my townblock
let's not hunt off the wagon today, okay?

I think we should at least look and see and talk about who might have been distancing/having ties to 2 after the lynch. As much as I'd love to lynch MS, TMT and Ven/don'tfuckingcare and SAD's not rocking me as well, it's not VERY possible all of them are scum, and it'd be a fascinating thing that if even two of those were scum in general.

That said:

Replacements: keep up. We just had a night phase. You should be ISOing and posting reads.

[Ghostlin]

So, in my read of the remaining four/five people on 2's wagon, I started with Sajin. (The following people had no connection to 2: BRO and Mac and I had cleared them of associative tells/nothing clanging wrong in their ISO. Venmar/don't fucking care...well, honestly, DFC did NOTHING day 1, and Ven's not be indicatively telling.)

A bit of background: I liked an early post by Sajin in my catchup, but nothing he had done recently had really meshed well with me. I was, however, expect in general a townish push in 2's direction, interaction. For example, BNB was mentally cleared by me from a null due to his fight with 2, I couldn't see the fabrication there. I found some things that bothered me. I did share this with Orc last night, although I am changing it up a little bit in case of the whole 'thou shall not quote outside this thread' is a rule.

I'll sort this into two categories: things that are more having to do with association, and general tells for me, so the players not buying 'scum on the 2 wagon' can ignore any ravings I have in the second half.

Things that bother me in a scummish way:

*No reads post. While he does have some stances, Town players are quick to have a progression of reads with set reads. He's missing the 'set reads' part of 'progression of reads'. I'm not sure this is the same thing that Nacho and BnB talk about when they talk trajectory. (I will talk more about progression of reads in a part below.)

*He rolefishes Sven by asking point blank what his role name was. (I'm talking about 190, if you want to play along.) Admittedly, this could be taken out of context. I'm not thrilled 100% of him asking more information about how our neighborhood works either or AJ doing the same, but I concede that might be paranoia talking. Yes, I answered the questions he posed mostly because they don't give scum a huge advantage.

*There's some causal cogitive dissonance between his stance in #2060 with KBW and his stance later in #2086. Granted, you could argue he's talking mostly about fluff in his stance in #2060 and #2086, but the very essence of not contributing to Town is not posting hardly anything at all; so the stances to me read awkward. (Note: I didn't share this with Orc, I just noticed it myself.)

Associative Things (2 wagon):

*He votes 2 in #2060, but the remainder of his push, the person he most interacts with the remainder of the day is Venmar. He even mentions accusing Venmar in one post. He doesn't push 2 at all except to mention it'd be ok for SAD to vote them in #2556. The posts don't indicate any interest in attacking 2 further. There's no natural progression there, not even a half-way passive '2 is scum' post. In other words, he votes someone and doesn't seem that interested in their lynch. He's more interested in cross-examining Venmar (which, my read last night made me think he thought Venmar was scum).

Also, he forms a causal link in #2556 to BnB, who is generally seen as town by saying to SAD 'You may sheep me and BnB today...'. This is a 'town by association' trick. Smooth.

*There's no other interaction between him and 2, and the reasoning for the 2 wagon is incredibly weak. He mentions that Fery is defensive (which is almost verging on tone), can't read the other half of the hydra; and doesn't ask another question. In fact, if 2 asked him a question, he doesn't answer it, and 2 took swipes at a lot of people, Nacho and BnB among them. It makes no sense and is tied with the bullet point above. If you can't read half of a hydra, why wouldn't you interact with them as much as possible.

More to come, and I will be voting but I want an answer from Varshoon about my question.

[Ghostlin]

Bad question or not, I'm confused and it would really be nice if somebody would put on an IC hat for a second and explain it.

Talking about the kill done at night does nothing but create unnecessary WIFOM (particularly Day 2, with no other associations). Sometimes mafia will kill players you don't expect to manufacture this WIFOM.

Now, there are a number of players already guilty of this, including myself; but that's the general reason why not.

In general yes I get that, but I mean in this case it helps determine if we have multiball or not, soooo....

Which if that was a shot from a 1 time Vig, we won't be able to determine until tomorrow. SK is also still an option.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Or, a non-colonist, non-bionicist flip TODAY would also determine, but we've got no further information.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin: My thought process was something like this: 2's probably town. I meta'd 2, but then again, when I meta'd 2, I kinda -wanted- 2 to be town and interpreted it that way. 2 could not be town. The wagon is mostly people I think are town, though. If 2's town and this wagon is scummy, oh fuck. Well. Day is going to end soon, and everyone seems stubborn about this. Hum. Fuck it, 2 could be scum, and I could be wrong, and if I'm not, then I can hope to expose his wagon,

since I'll likely live to the next day.

You know; you almost reassured Paranoid!Ghostlin until you hit the bolded. The unconcern about you not worried about making it to Day 2 clangs a bit.

Guys, here's my problem with Vashoon: he's playing roulette and we're playing poker. This really came through in the ISO diving last night.

I don't like Vashoon's play. I don't like the uncertainty principle he creates: for example, after his gambit with 2 and another player: he calls 2 town due to the reaction to the gambit. He even used phrasing like '2's playing better than most of you' (a paraphrase, I admit) and the gambit created a false positive result, while it didn't fool anyone, if it did it would of cleared 2.

And yet, the gambit and the amount of times Vashoon was at the center of attention makes me wonder if it's not sub-optimal scum tactics to do so.

[Ghostlin]

Oh. For discussion purposes and because I want my stance out there:

Vote: Sajin

[Ghostlin]

Oh. For discussion purposes and because I want my stance out there:

Vote: Sajin

Whacha got against Sajin?
He's not that powerful of a voice, I think. When was the last time Sajin said something?
Feels like he might be taking a backseat.
Turns out he's not a super Sajin after all.


Anyway, I was sure I'd live 'till today because I wasn't being lynched and scum would rather kill people they think are PRs/good town players. I'm playing way too off-the-wall to ping as either, I'd imagine. Scum likes that I'm paranoid/misread 2. Scum wants me in a lylo situation. That's why I'm bulletproof. Or, at the least, seen as a weaker NK.

2898. It's a wall, but explains everything I don't like about Sajin.

In fact, the argument is how he using his voice. Also, being bulletproof because you're too kooky to be NKed doesn't really help us that much if we end up mislynching you anyhow.

[Ghostlin]

...apparently I missed a gambit

I know you said you wouldn't reread the thread, but I'm referring to the process he works out in 2103.

2371 and 2646 are both defenses of 2, including one where he says 2 is more Town than most players. I wanted his thought process because these posts clang and it seemed to be that it'd be more like town if Vashoon slid in his heels.

[Ghostlin]

I don't know what to say to most of this.
It reminds me of the 'shotty cant be scum because its shotty and his play is just shit'.

Privately, I enjoyed trying to lynch shotty, vezok and werewolf555 for this reason whenever possible. Sometimes I was even right.

[Ghostlin]

Speaking of dumb...

This is an excellent post, devoted to scum hunting and a well-reasoned way to call my reasoning that I've worked hard on 'dumb'.

The above sentence is sarcasm.

[Ghostlin]

So, here's how this goes: I'm going to read, let you guys do work and when you want my final reads, I'll give them.

This is not how this works.

But since you want to be reticent:

Intent to Hammer: AJ

We're going to play a little game. You have 48 hours of this post to give me town and scum reads along with reasoning so Town can read them. You don't post, I'll hop on you and kill you into next week.

I'll be clear: this might not save you. What it will do is leave a chain of evidence that we can either follow if you're town, or give you a chance to create one final WIFOM gambit.

Or, you can hang yourself if you're scum.

I'd much rather talk about Sajin or the lurkers or even Varshoon, but this post is

SO BAD

under pressure that I'd actually lynch it. Nacho's right. So, like a little canary, I want you to sing.

[Ghostlin]

VC of end of days, hoping this gives us focus:

End of Day 2:

[9]

Aj The Epic

(Nachomamma8, RachMarie, BROseidon, spinachattack, Varsoon, Andrius, orcinus_theoriginal,

Cabd

, GuyInFreezer)
[1] Metal Sonic (TiphaineDeath)
[1] RachMarie (

Venmar

)
[1] Sajin (Ghostlin)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Metal Sonic)
[1]

Venmar

(Sajin)

(BnB didn't vote day 2)

End of Day 1:

[11]

²

(Andrius, orcinus_theoriginal, Nachomamma8, BROseidon, Sajin,

BeautyAndTheBeast

,

Mac

, GuyInFreezer,

TheReverend

, Varsoon,

Venmar

)
[3] waynegg (Ghostlin,

Aj The Epic

,

²

)
[2] Metal Sonic (

Cabd

, TiphaineDeath)
[1] Aj The Epic (RachMarie)
[1] orcinus_theoriginal (waynegg)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Metal Sonic)

[Ghostlin]

VC of end of days, hoping this gives us focus:

End of Day 2:

[9]

Aj The Epic

(Nachomamma8, RachMarie, BROseidon, spinachattack, Varsoon, Andrius, orcinus_theoriginal,

Cabd

, GuyInFreezer)
[1] Metal Sonic (TiphaineDeath)
[1] RachMarie (

Venmar

)
[1] Sajin (Ghostlin)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Metal Sonic)
[1]

Venmar

(Sajin)

(BnB didn't vote day 2)

End of Day 1:

[11]

²

(Andrius, orcinus_theoriginal, Nachomamma8, BROseidon, Sajin,

BeautyAndTheBeast

,

Mac

, GuyInFreezer,

TheReverend

, Varsoon,

Venmar

)
[3] waynegg (Ghostlin,

Aj The Epic

,

²

)
[2] Metal Sonic (

Cabd

, TiphaineDeath)
[1] Aj The Epic (RachMarie)
[1] orcinus_theoriginal (waynegg)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Metal Sonic)

[Ghostlin]

A few things.

TD/MS, stop cross voting each other and find scum or

I will fucking see you hang.

In fact, there's a 50/50 chance you're doing this on fucking purpose.

Scum is in, but not exclusive at least one of {Varsoon, Sajin}, using Day 1/Day 2 wagon data and PoE. Nacho, I know you're re-calibrating, but would you support a Varshoon lynch today?

I still fucking like TMT's hydrae for scum and would love to hear arguments about it. That Day 1 vote is fucking useless.

In the clutch, we probably should look Nacho, Orc and Andy ways, but we're not in the clutch yet.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Sajin

to start the day. Would join Andy on Varshoon, tho'.

[Ghostlin]

also, lets discuss the 3 kills at night

2 scum factions + X shot Vig
1 scum faction + 1 SK (w/X or 1x bulletproof, probably)+ X shot Vig

2 scum factions+ 1 SK (w/X or 1x bulletproof, probably)

The bolded are the most likely in my mind.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin, why is there scum between me and Sajin? IF you can argue this, I'd put a vote there, since he's one of my scumspecs and I know I am town.

Day 1 BW analysis (and many, many reasons I've gone over both of your ISOs looking for 2 buddies/places for alt scum teams to park). Although if we analyze both wagons and ignore the fact that Sajin essentially showed up, parked his vote on Venmar, and left; using the idea that that scum would be on both wagons to cap the day off, from straight VCA it changes to {Varsoon, BROseidon} (eliminating Town reads).

Would you like to reread my case on Sajin?

[Ghostlin]

Yes, I know VCA is nebulous, but Townies don't mislynch themselves. There are patterns.

[Ghostlin]

Varsoon: 2898. Add the fact that while everyone may have had a bad Day 2, his was one of the worst. He seems to be lying low.

Give me a chance to ISO Bro, please? I didn't hate him Day 2 and if I don't hate him now then I might not have anything.

[Ghostlin]

I don't think you responded when I asked how experienced you were yet?

I'm fairly experienced. I'm not Nacho/DGB experienced, but I played for quite a few months before I site flaked and came back.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

[Ghostlin]

A few thoughts on BROsideon:

773 and 779 seem to be almost dissonant of each other. Honestly, I've never heard of so many people saying 'X isn't here, so I'll push Y' so much in a Mafiascum game.

Wait...he's not pushing 2 mostly early game. He does interact and doesn't do anything with it.

Also, he calls me scum in 1147 (with some waffling due to GiF and Andy), asks me for a Letters case in 1297...and doesn't really mention me again (he questions Nacho about the townbloc in 1777, but that seems to not really even be a push on me) as an alignment.

Look at 1362 and 1363 for me. The progression isn't natural, and I pointed out why Nacho's original reasoning was wrong, wrong wrong. The reaction is also wrong, wrong wrong.

This is all I managed to get, and it's not strong, Varshoon.

Going away from that a minute, I don't like the fact he took the 'maybe AJ' from 2's scum reads and ran with that as much as he did. There was a huge amount of confirmation bias there that doesn't read genuine. (2781)

[Ghostlin]

I don't think you responded when I asked how experienced you were yet?

I'm fairly experienced. I'm not Nacho/DGB experienced, but I played for quite a few months before I site flaked and came back.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

Because then I think you should of picked up on end of day 1, start of day 2 event.

Thoughts on RachMarie?

Meh. She's a null--I liked some of the directions she was going, but she doesn't excite me or horrify me. I had an early suspicion due to her posting style, but everyone informs me that that's meta.

[Ghostlin]

Or venmar hid behind scum

Yes, I forgot about that particular point.

[Ghostlin]

@v: because if I was scum, you would've hard townread me til it's very late?

Who do you like for scum, GiF?

[Ghostlin]

will vouch for his experience. I *think* he was in VV's (;_; i miss you) mini theme a lifetime ago.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16311

[Ghostlin]

Unvote. Vote: Rachmarie

Shouldn't have let the man die, Rach.

[Ghostlin]

varsoon

is

the lynchpool

This.

Sajin:

No comment. (Because, scum)

[Ghostlin]

orcinus_theoriginal, Meyneth, Mechonis Aligned Godmother

Neighbor

, was killed Night 3.

Uh, GiF...

Are you faking stupidity?

Ghost is not scumbuddies with Orc, unless the mod decided to put TWO NEIGHBORS IN THE SAME SCUMTEAM. Which seems useless, unless they have other people they can talk to.

Hey Ghost, is Orc your only neighbor, or do you have others?

Orc was my only neighbor. I can full claim if you'd like; but I am colonist aligned.

[Ghostlin]

Coloring up the VCs again:
Votecount 1.20 (Final)

[11]

²

(Andrius,

orcinus_theoriginal

, Nachomamma8, BROseidon,

Sajin

,

BeautyAndTheBeast

,

Mac

, GuyInFreezer,

TheReverend

, Varsoon,

Venmar

) 
[3] waynegg (Ghostlin,

Aj The Epic

,

²

)
[2] Metal Sonic (

Cabd

, TiphaineDeath)
[1]

Aj The Epic

(

RachMarie

)
[1]

orcinus_theoriginal

(waynegg)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Metal Sonic)

[1] Not Voting (Ser Arthur Dayne)

With 20 alive, it is 11 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

A lynch has been reached! Scene incoming.


Votecount 2.4 (Final)

[9]

Aj The Epic

(Nachomamma8,

RachMarie

, BROseidon, spinachattack, Varsoon, Andrius,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Cabd

, GuyInFreezer)
[1] Metal Sonic (TiphaineDeath)
[1]

RachMarie

(

Venmar

)
[1]

Sajin

(Ghostlin)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Metal Sonic)
[1]

Venmar

(

Sajin

)

[3] Not Voting (

Aj The Epic

,

BeautyAndTheBeast

, Ser Arthur Dayne)

With 17 alive, it is 9 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

A lynch has been reached! Scene incoming.


Votecount 3.1 (Final)

[7]

RachMarie

(

Sajin

,

orcinus_theoriginal

, Andrius, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, GuyInFreezer, spinachattack)
[1]

Sajin

(Metal Sonic)
[1] spinachattack (Varsoon)

[4] Not Voting (BROseidon, Ser Arthur Dayne,

RachMarie

, Nachomamma8)

With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

A lynch has been reached! Scene Incoming.

Flips:

2: Bio aligned Cop
Mac: Colonist Vanilla
Rev: Colonist Miller Tracker
AJ: Colonist Vanilla
BNB: Colonist EN Cop
Venmar: Colonist 2-shot Hider
Cabd: Colonist Vanilla
Mumkhar: Mech 1-shot Strongman
Orc: Mech Godmother Neighbor
Sajin: Colonist Vanilla

[Ghostlin]

Thoughts:

*Nacho is probably not Red scum if he is scum considering how hard he rode and scum hunted 2 in Day 1, he could possibly be Blue scum, however.

*Varshoon could be any color scum, really.

*What exactly is SAD doing this game? Seriously, they've spent more time doing nothing then TD and Sonic have voting each other.

*SA is more likely to be Red scum then Blue scum. Considering how much I didn't like TMT in the early game, this might be worth going back to.

*Someone will have pointed this out, but I cannot be Blue scum. Protip, kids: I'm not Red scum either.

*BRO is more likely to be Blue than Red, but my hearts not in that one.

The List:

Town: Andrius (although I'm wondering why he's alive now), BRO, GiF, probably TD

Possible Blue scum: Varshoon, Nacho (which really pains me, but it's Day 4 with a multitude of flips), SAD

Possible Red scum: SA, SAD

[Ghostlin]

Actually, scratch that. Orc didn't talk much in our neighbor conversations, but he had a hate-on for Varshoon. There's no point in trying to direct a Town aligned neighbor to your buddy. Varshoon would have to be Red scum, bussing/buddying 2. (I forgot him in my Possible Red scum list). Bottom half of the list should read:

Possible Blue scum: Nacho (which really pains me, but it's Day 4 with a multitude of flips), SAD

Possible Red scum: SA, SAD, Varshoon

[Ghostlin]

Cannot be a particular color of scum: Ghostlin (Blue), Nacho (Red, unless he pulled off the most epic of busses Day 1), Varshoon (unless Orc really was fucking with me hard in the QT; he really, really REALLY wanted Varshoon dead)

[Ghostlin]

I think we need to talk about the possiblity of a SAD lynch seriously, but helping Town win and forcing a possible 'scum shoot each other and Town wins' scenario is much more appealing and with Andy's claim he shot Varshoon:

Vote: Varshoon

[Ghostlin]

Protip: don't take any stock in protips that self proclaim non scum. Especially when they reiterate it so many times...

FoS: Ghostlin

~Wayne

*Yawns* Shy of being a mason, I'm about the closest thing to a confirmed townie in this game, so I have no fucks to give here.

[Ghostlin]

Protip: don't take any stock in protips that self proclaim non scum. Especially when they reiterate it so many times...

FoS: Ghostlin

~Wayne

*Yawns* Shy of being a mason, I'm about the closest thing to a confirmed townie in this game, so I have no fucks to give here.

Lol! You're gonna have to provide some evidence here! Or are you saying that because your neighbor flipped blue scum? If that's the case I find it highly plausible for you to be red scum so the scum teams have some crosstalk to take each other off the path of the other. (1)

You say Orc went on And on about how he wanted to kill Varsoon. The corollary to that is you pushed hard in disagreement. Otherwise he wouldn't have had to keep beating that dead horse. I'd even go out on a limb to say you have his mirror role. (2)

You gotta do better than 'I'm town because I am'. That shit don't fly.

1) While you find this highly plausible, what possible reasoning that you have that I'm scum beyond the fact that I've suspected your slot in the past? I've been doing a lot of heavy lifting while your slot's been picking it's nose. TMT did zero and should have been lynched day 1. Wayne, you also did zero at the end of the same day. You've managed to combine yourselves into a unit that's done -something-. Bravo, most of us have been doing that without hydrae.

2) Um, where did I actually say I pushed hard in disagreement. Considering I thought Orc was town until last night's flip, we were close of one mind on that issue. Hell, I still think Vashoon's scum, hence my vote. My actions have been the entire fucking opposite of this. In fact, I even posted at least two huge posts of why I think Vashoon might be scum. No, I'm not going to proactively find them for you. Find them your own fucking self since you know so much about my motivations.

Your post here isn't bullshit, since bulls are actually healthy, strong and useful animals. Your post is closer to three legged dog with pneumonia shit.

[Ghostlin]

Protip: don't take any stock in protips that self proclaim non scum. Especially when they reiterate it so many times...

FoS: Ghostlin

~Wayne

*Yawns* Shy of being a mason, I'm about the closest thing to a confirmed townie in this game, so I have no fucks to give here.

Lol! You're gonna have to provide some evidence here! Or are you saying that because your neighbor flipped blue scum? If that's the case I find it highly plausible for you to be red scum so the scum teams have some crosstalk to take each other off the path of the other. (1)

You say Orc went on And on about how he wanted to kill Varsoon. The corollary to that is you pushed hard in disagreement. Otherwise he wouldn't have had to keep beating that dead horse. I'd even go out on a limb to say you have his mirror role. (2)

You gotta do better than 'I'm town because I am'. That shit don't fly.

1) While you find this highly plausible, what possible reasoning that you have that I'm scum beyond the fact that I've suspected your slot in the past? I've been doing a lot of heavy lifting while your slot's been picking it's nose. TMT did zero and should have been lynched day 1. Wayne, you also did zero at the end of the same day. You've managed to combine yourselves into a unit that's done -something-. Bravo, most of us have been doing that without hydrae.

2) Um, where did I actually say I pushed hard in disagreement. Considering I thought Orc was town until last night's flip, we were close of one mind on that issue. Hell, I still think Vashoon's scum, hence my vote. My actions have been the entire fucking opposite of this. In fact, I even posted at least two huge posts of why I think Vashoon might be scum. No, I'm not going to proactively find them for you. Find them your own fucking self since you know so much about my motivations.

Your post here isn't bullshit, since bulls are actually healthy, strong and useful animals. Your post is closer to three legged dog with pneumonia shit.

[Ghostlin]

Protip: don't take any stock in protips that self proclaim non scum. Especially when they reiterate it so many times...

FoS: Ghostlin

~Wayne

*Yawns* Shy of being a mason, I'm about the closest thing to a confirmed townie in this game, so I have no fucks to give here.

Lol! You're gonna have to provide some evidence here! Or are you saying that because your neighbor flipped blue scum? If that's the case I find it highly plausible for you to be red scum so the scum teams have some crosstalk to take each other off the path of the other. (1)

You say Orc went on And on about how he wanted to kill Varsoon. The corollary to that is you pushed hard in disagreement. Otherwise he wouldn't have had to keep beating that dead horse. I'd even go out on a limb to say you have his mirror role. (2)

You gotta do better than 'I'm town because I am'. That shit don't fly.

1) While you find this highly plausible, what possible reasoning that you have that I'm scum beyond the fact that I've suspected your slot in the past? I've been doing a lot of heavy lifting while your slot's been picking it's nose. TMT did zero and should have been lynched day 1. Wayne, you also did zero at the end of the same day. You've managed to combine yourselves into a unit that's done -something-. Bravo, most of us have been doing that without hydrae.

2) Um, where did I actually say I pushed hard in disagreement. Considering I thought Orc was town until last night's flip, we were close of one mind on that issue. Hell, I still think Vashoon's scum, hence my vote. My actions have been the entire fucking opposite of this. In fact, I even posted at least two huge posts of why I think Vashoon might be scum. No, I'm not going to proactively find them for you. Find them your own fucking self since you know so much about my motivations.

Your post here isn't bullshit, since bulls are actually healthy, strong and useful animals. Your post is closer to three legged dog with pneumonia shit.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Fucking triple post as well.

[Ghostlin]

The silence is deafening...

UNVOTE ANDRIUS

VOTE GHOSTLIN

Look guys, my names SA and instead of responding to the fact that my scum buddy was just claimed shot in the head, I'm going to remove my vote a place where it is useless and put it on another useless vote!

Nacho, Andrius, answer this for me: why haven't we lynched this slot yet?

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: VARSOON

1) I shot varsoon last night. He isn't dead. Town_protective roles have no reason to protect him.

I don't really see it? Like, at all. You jump from point A to C with an extremely weak B.

And you. Don't get me started.

List. Town/Scum. Reasons. Now.

[Ghostlin]

Yes, so you hammered obvscum. Bravo. Want a cookie? I say this because the HIDER CRUMBED HER AND SHE WAS THE OBVIOUS PLAY.

So, you could still be red scum with both of the things you just posted. You weren't a driver for 2, and suspecting Orc and hammering obv Rach is hardly a recommendation of your hydra's awesome scumhunting skills.

[Ghostlin]

So in short you're saying <gloss over the points that we've done our part in spades> and we still suck. That about right?

You mentioned TWO things you've done this game. TWO. Both of which at best were suspected scum of ONE team. Forgive me if I'm skeptical on your awesome scum hunting powers. Who do you think is scum out of the remaining players. It'd help if you sort by teams.

If you're gung-ho to prove how valuable you are, this will be a simple task for you.

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: VARSOON

1)

I shot varsoon last night

. He isn't dead. Town_protective roles have no reason to protect him.
2) Nacho isn't dead. TownBastionofLightandGlory Nacho isn't dead. Its D4. I'm not sure how much else I want to claim at the moment but suffice to say I think Nacho has a chance of being scum.

orc flip is shocking and saddening.
MS probably isn't MechonisScum.


tl;dr:

Shot varsoon in the face- he's not dead

. pewpew

I'm town, you shit. And if anyone protected me, they wasted their protection. So, we're either playing with idiots or

you are scum.

If a cop actually found a clean/guilty on you

that would make things a lot easier

but they are afraid of nightkills



haha look at TD holy shit

i'd love to vig him but i got better targets

Holy shit, MS just scum claimed!

[Ghostlin]

Unvote.

Vote: MS

[Ghostlin]

So what's the play, kids?

1) The guy who didn't die after a one shot Vig hit didn't kill him and there's a little less likelihood that he was protected by non-scum sources?

2) The guy who counterclaimed the one shot Vig saying he has plenty of targets?

3) Or the guy who's sum a sum total of shit (no, I'm not talking about the letters hydra here).

[Ghostlin]

First sum=contributed

[Ghostlin]

nobody in their right mind would claim like that

You realize this doesn't exonerate you.

[Ghostlin]

1) The guy who didn't die after a one shot Vig hit didn't kill him and there's a little less likelihood that he was protected by non-scum sources?

2) The guy who counterclaimed the one shot Vig saying he has plenty of targets?

3) Or the guy who's sum a sum total of shit (no, I'm not talking about the letters hydra here).

or the comical and optimal third option of
ALL THREE

Well, yes, but the mod didn't give me the coveted triple vote role again. Which one are we lynching

TODAY?

[Ghostlin]

^

why do i claim 1 shot vig when i havent used my shot

^Scum claim.

[Ghostlin]

Yes. We flip Varsoon and then decide what to do next. There should be at least a Day or Two left.

Unvote.

Vote: Varsoon

I very rarely get to hammer.

[Ghostlin]

My only regret is that I only had one life to live for Town.

[Ghostlin]

Blue scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/uSjyfrKv4r2p

My reasoning for shooting Ghost was hilariously off.

10/10. Would get shot Night 4 again.
`

This was an amazing game I loved the player base and honestly thought all sides played pretty damn well. Would love to repeat it. /prein Xenogears

Ditto, possibly with a hydrae.