In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[Corvuus]

Hi!

I'm replacing in for the man.

Thanks for the welcome; no i am not scum.

I'll try re-reading today and tomorrow as much as i can.

Corv

[Corvuus]

Hi,

I'm by no means caught up. I just did iso on a few players and read a few pages around areas of interest.

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I read Jack and the slot i'm replacing (themanhimself). I would agree with my slot except for the fact that in the opening post on scum, it states that scum have a day chat quicktopic and given that, even though it is like Jack claiming some 'weird' like day 1 massclaim/gambit, etc. it isn't at the very least a scum slip since he did it expressedly on purpose. Given how incredibly powerful scum daytalk is, I actually like the gambit since 'polarizing' issues get reads and stands and I like how Jack handled it vis a vis town tend towards polarization while scum tend to calculate/hedge.

unvote

============
It is mildly important to figure out scum God but not something to inherently worry about since the only "real" way to truly tell scum God would be based on overtly scummy actions such as 'abusing' their power/retroactive reflection. This might only happen closer towards lylo or, if broken, happen in the beginning and just not care that anyone/everyone knows.
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I don't understand the point of the key word thing. Explaining it ruins any possible point but I'm interested in why; after whatever it is you want is accomplished.

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DRK generally always looks scummy regardless of alignment. It is his nature.
His exact responses and exchange with tajo is interesting.

Tajo and DGB are interesting in that each have a specific meta/interaction based on whatever their alignment is. Leaning tajo-town, DGB could be town or scum but slightly more likely to be scum since DGB voting tajo doesn't make strong sense if DGB-town.

[Corvuus]

ugh, hit submit instead of preview.

at any rate,

I don't understand why NS is voting me (or left his/her vote on me?). From ISO, you put your vote and then wander off to do other things. Is this pressure vote or what?

----

I'm also interested in LL, benmage's reasoning/thoughts.
Benmage view is somewhat leaning townish to me right now but i'm not clear on LL.

LL: themanhimself's comments make sense in the point of view that he truly believed Jack is scum and that (in terms of polarizing) people are either town who are 'ignoring the obvious/lazy/etc. etc.' or scum who are defending their buddy by attacking the person who is 'jumping up and down' on something that people want to move past. What do you think? Since, ironically, in polarizing cases, it is somewhat easier for scum to pick off the extreme townie instead of the original target.

DRK: Actually, it seems like your play style and meta has changed. You actually seem to be scumhunting and more interested in lynching scum than just trying to 'omgus/save yourself'. Whats going on?

edit note due to DKR posting: Regardless of what you do in a game, it reveals your nature. If you don't agree with me then that is fine but your style tends to inherently strike me as scummy which is why I am interested in what you are doing this game as per my point above. i.e. you tend to be inherently scummy yet you are making an effort to be town. so.... as above... whats up?
Corv

[Corvuus]

why do you say that DGB?

The only thing i get from DTMaster is his slightly abnormal obsession with Fishy being scum God and shortening deadlines.

C

[Corvuus]

DRK:

I read the people voting me, the person my predecessor was voting and I read tajo-DGB and I figured I would read the 'lead' wagon in terms of ISO.

My point in my first post is just that the Tajo-DRK is interesting in terms of how you are both treating it. The interesting part to me is that your defense/actions strike me as town (believing tajo is town, scumhunt, choices) and I am just genuinely surprised compared to what I remember of you and what I think of you. I don't think you are a definite scum right now though but I guess I'll learn your 'new meta'/style.

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DGB: the existence of scum day talk makes me not share your opinion.

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Equinox: Well, I want a response so I have to ask a question but since I'm less sure of DRK's style-response I figured I would leave it open-ended for whatever he felt like since style of question influences style of answer.

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Farside: Your reference to TMH is reference to me?

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Benmage: uhh... unless I read the votecount wrong, i think you are voting for me. So... hi?

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

DRK: unless you are trying to pick a fight with me, i'm not sure what your point is.

If it makes it simple for you, there are basically only two scenarios I can imagine for you.

1. You are town and are actively trying to prevent your own lynch while finding scum.
2. You are scum but somehow are fairly calculating in how you prevent your own lynch while driving a wagon on someone else while appearing as in 1.

I find option #2 to be less likely for various reasons.

When I said that you tend to 'look/appear' scummy, you should realize it isn't a "dismissal" in that everything you do is scummy therefore you must be scum, but that you tend to 'appear' scummy regardless of your alignment and I (and others) need to read and consider it more. That is why I find it interesting since a DRK-scum in previous game would play differently than what you are doing now. I would consider you to be town based on other parts but since there IS day talk scum chat, I can not discount the difference in play style from 1. previous game(s) to this game, 2. early game this game ('laziness') to 'being wagoned/voted' this game.

If this is still not plain enough; your play strikes me as town but i can not discount possibility of coaching, etc. so I am not sure. I am not voting you so take that as you will.
--------------------------

Benmage: Your problem was with the player and not the player slot?

LLD and NS: Since it might not be clear; you are both voting me. I'd like your thoughts on that since other than LLD's reasoning for TMH, NS/Ben voted and then kind of wandered off.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

Equinox: I believe i have made it clear but I'll point to it again.

There IS a day talk scum quicktopic. I'm not sure how aware everyone else is of that fact or of how it is an insanely powerful ability especially with '3+ scum'.

Either way, the existence of Day-talk for scum makes me consider what EVERYONE is going to post with regards to style, response, etc. I don't know you (Equinox) so all i can do is read your in-game consistency and in terms of DRK, it isn't "OMG, you're better than the last time I saw you", it is his in-game consistency for THIS game in terms of difference between early-game DRK and 'now'-DRK.

i.e. Due to existence of scum day talk, style/response can be an indicator of alignment beyond just normal conversation.

------

In terms of 'what sort of response', I didn't give him any leading questions or anything since I don't want to influence his response and pretty much however he responded is just how he chose to respond. So... yes, i'm going to read everything. No, I don't have a 100% idea of what a 'proper' response is, but there is genuine and there is strange and there are ways to try to counter day talk scum.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

well DTmaster and Equinox are interesting.

I never said I read DTmaster. So i'm not sure how you guys are leaping ahead or assuming "Corvuus is skimming DTmaster" since i haven't even read everything by any means. I read the players I specified and general posts around it to check general context and DTmaster posted at least twice (i'm not sure if there is more since i haven't read him completely) on how if fishy is scum god, then he should shorten deadlines. If he is scum and fishy is scum as well, then this makes no sense since he could either daytalk or whatever and it is a pretty stupid gambit; if he is town, it also doesn't really make sense unless he is hoping a fishy-scum God would just reveal himself but then why give advice to scum and how would it help, etc.?. Either way, I saw no reason at all for this unless a specific gambit and I was reading DGB and I didn't see a 'strong current' reason for his declaration (which fits a DGB-scum profile) regardless of whatever DTmaster might have done 'earlier' and if it is early game, why did DGB just declare it now and in terms of relative closeness of posting, it didn't make sense.

So yes, don't worry about me reading, taking notes, etc. For anyone who has played with me before, they know i will post walls of text regardless and that i do read "everything" eventually.
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DRK is not my focus.

I will obviously question your motives in stating that he is my focus since 1. I'm not voting him, 2. I asked question(s) for the people voting for me and I asked DRK since he is lead wagon so I should decide whether to vote with him or pursue someone else. At the very least my focus is on LLD, Ben and NS as well.

I will iso you now DTmaster and you only only have 14 posts.

First of all, in DTmaster iso #1, you state that DGB is the most powerful of all gods late game and that you will keep an eye on him (DGB).

DGB just declared you as town (without giving reasons until I asked him) and along with your own statements (regarding fishy-scum God) the question is why is DTmaster's first impulse is to question Corvuus for asking DGB for a reason and not DTmaster asking DGB for a reason? Generally, town would either question someone who blatantly calls you town like that without specific reasoning or depending on position of the declaring player, may choose to ignore it given specific set of circumstances (which ironically, DGB being an immortal God kind of falls under).

And you have a problem with me questioning why in the world would you say something like Fishy-scum God should shorten deadline?

Well, whatever, despite this interaction, I think you have a higher chance of being town than scum right now due to your posts/multiple gambits and regardless of how much I may dislike what I read from you, you think it is hilarious and would do it as town and town is better off letting you do what you like since it can be beneficial to town while also leading to your death.

I'll have to iso Equinox and read a bit more but I guess you being on a phone explains you 'parroting/ninjad' what DTmaster said despite it not really making sense. That will have to wait for a few bit though.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

Fishy: PM or send me our quicktopic link.
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DRK: I'm still not sure why you are attacking me if you are town. You're basically encouraging me to vote you and I'm not sure why you would do this when the stated position of farside, etc. is that your actions are 'scummy', etc. and that you are scum that must die and I'm not agreeing with the final conclusion based on my prior experience with you. So the question is, do you actually care what I really think or are you just generating noise?

Do you really wish me to just agree with Farside's view of you this game? Do you want me to lynch you?
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Farside: I actually think you are town so I'm going to attempt to ignore how your comment reflects on you. I don't have a case on DRK, nor am I building one, and what meta argument that DRK is scum are you talking about? If you actually read what I wrote, DRK-meta and his actions do not fit scum, I'm confused/intrigued by this but I can not discount the existence of scum day talk. If scum day talk did not exist at all, then I'd say DRK is more likely town based on his actions, not just meta considerations.
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DTmaster and Equinox: You both are interesting in that you have gambits and plays and are either 'smart' town or 'smart' scum trying to lead town.

Frankly, I'm sort of wtf at both of you since I had a feeling of where it was going to lead up to, and then you both are arriving at it but I guess that is because deadline is in 5 days.

DTmaster: When I said the only thing i get from you is the fishy-ish is because that literally was all that was around when DGB made his post (and I think part of your 'code thingy'). So his declaration was spawned by something and if not based on his PM, etc. then it was based on your fishy declaration? My statements by no means contradict since the only thing I could see DGB reading and 'changing' his mind on is that and with 800+ posts in day 1 what else is there to say. I will also state that I personally think scum God is either DGB or NS and my question was meant more on what DGB thinks than a reflection on you DTMaster.

Equinox: I can make blanket statements since that is how you get reactions. If DGB or DTmaster flubs their response, does it really matter if I am 'fully understanding all 800+ posts'? No. In fact, i can literally say whatever I deem necessary and you can judge why I am saying it but by saying outrageous things you definitely get a response.

DRK posted the link for you. I don't believe it relevant per se but I did read a little bit of DRK in other games at the time.

With regards to 'hedging' my bets. I'm not sure of DRK's alignment. I'm not going to vote someone who I don't actually think is definite scum and i'm not going to defend someone who may be scum. If you claim I am hedging, then why are both you (DTmaster, Equinox) going for non-DRK (Feysal?)?

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Hito: Tajo-town always has a high statistical chance of catching DGB-scum. Somewhat verifiable fact. DGB is immortal so things are slightly different but DGB is kind of acting like scum in response to Tajo.
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I'm personally wtf at what DTmaster and Equinox are doing.
DTmaster, is this part of your gambit/code? Or are you acting separately/independently?


Corvuus

[Corvuus]

DGB:
I didn't say DGB-town can't catch Tajo-scum. I said Tajo-town catches DGB-scum. It isn't mutually exclusive. Nor does it take anything into account in terms of DGB/Tajo both being scum. If you think Tajo is scum, then go ahead. I don't care on that issue nor do I care to prove an assertion that I believe DGB-tajo both mutually believe and they were the only audience I actually cared about for that.

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I'm feeling a NS-scum God and I think DTmaster does have a good chance of being scum.

I was considering letting DTmaster live another day since depending on his actual role/gambit, etc. it is determinable but hey, you guys want me to take a stand right? That and he himself has declared that if he is town, then whatever he is doing/planning will help out town regardless of whether he lives or not so i don't see the downside to checking his gambit and pursuing this... especially since DTmaster and DRK scum together is a possibility.

vote DTmaster

.

Feel free to discuss this with your followers DGB. I'm in to lynch since at the very least I'll call you on your willingness to vote DTm .
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DRK: I don't think the most important point is whether it was a threat or not but, yeah, it was a threat from one town player to a potentially town or scum player.

NS: My question was more on why did you place your vote on TMH way back when and then just forget about it? Posting in quicktopics/pm, etc.? I'm not feeling inclined to convince you of anything and since your immortal, I guess I'll just wave at you.

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Farside: Daytalk scum can be incredibly useless if scum don't actually use it and talk. I have no inclination to prove daytalking scum is incredibly powerful since if scum aren't already doing it, then there is no reason for me to point out abuses. But I 100% stand by my assertion that daytalk is overpowered and I'll just rely on post-game to prove it. Whether by God-follower daytalk or scum day talk.

We both have fishy as our patron. I'm willing to pass on answers via fishy if you really want it and it would probably help out in other ways too.

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Ok, I'm not used to this large of a group. Writing up a post and basically an entire page appears.
I'm out of time right now. If you have a specific question(s) then ask me again.

Corvuus
p.s. hey fishy! let's chat sometime.

[Corvuus]

This is seriously like a psuedo marathon game or something. I'm mainly either early morning/late at night but I'll try to keep up.

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Unless my reading of the deadline rules are wrong, it has to be a majority of all players VOTING. I.e. if you aren't voting, you won't be counted towards the votecount total and so 'majority' needed will be less than normal lynch. Example: If EVERYONE is voting and no one has majority, there will be a no lynch.

Just feel I should remind people of this especially with God of Judgment/God of Time interaction and potential in later days if not today.

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DTm: I'm town. I just read. My reasoning while similar to DGB's is different and i'm actually nonplussed that you decided to do "a full claim" as opposed to something else since you killed your own gambit in at least 2 different ways before your claim, killed your own gambit and the chances of your own lynch is just not that high. I also dislike how you are handling the aftermath, especially since when you post 'line by line' plan, scum will either take advantage of it (by say targeting you because you claimed hide target so they can either frame or whatever) and I'm expecting DTm-NS to make a new plan even if it is just incredibly short-stupid just pick different target.

I still consider NS to be the scum God, so maybe you should consider whether NS is just giving you rope to hang yourself with as opposed to actually giving you help, suggestions, feedback, 'gambit' comments, etc. I still don't think you are obv-town.

unvote

.

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DGB: Thanks for the vote. Is it for anything in particular or just because I voted for DTm, sort of forcing you to as well?

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Farside is town to me, Equinox is less-so to me. DTmaster and Equinox have still not responded with whether it was planned or accidental regarding Equinox requesting BP for DTm since it is actually a significant contributing factor to killing DTm's gambit being useful for town beyond what DTm did to his own gambit. I don't think you should trust Equinox. I don't know his specific meta but Equinox-town should be smart enough to know what happened/would happen. Thanks for the spreadsheet Equinox.

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I'll definitely vote by late tonight (PST) and I think we should as a habit, try to lynch people at least 24 hours before deadline. I'll post my reasoning when I vote since i need to head out and wtf at jumping from 800ish posts when I replaced in to 1000+.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

DTm: Apparently you aren't reading my posts. A lot of people asked me questions. I stated in my post that if you want an answer to ask again since I don't have the time on weekday morning/evening schedule to go through each person's question, each post, line by line, show 'statistics', games, meta, etc. Either it is just noise, or you genuine want an answer. If you want an answer, ask me again. So try to read my posts.

1. I don't see how you are linking killing your gambit to saving DRK other than just his 1 phrase respond to your fake doc-claim. I also don't see how killing your own gambit changed the fact that Feysal and DRK were the two 'lead' wagons before and after. I also don't see, even after your explanation, how you get such a DRK-town read from it to the point that it is more pro-town to shoot yourself in the foot, kill your own gambit, and then do the actions you are doing.

2. I don't know if you actually understand this game. I can call you scum or town however I like and treat you both ways. I'm heavily leaning towards an NS-scum God. Some 'townies' tend to enjoy convoluted schemes in isolation that blow up in their face. The fact you even tried this is interesting, but how you handled it is pretty bad to me.

You also don't seem to understand how logic works in the sense that I can have mutually exclusive 'if' statements such as "if DTm is town...", "if DTm is scum..." and give you remarks and advice on each one. My post was considering the potential of "If DTm is town...", then how does he consider NS/Equinox? Instead of actually considering it, you say my logic is full of holes instead of addressing what the real point and problems are. Which actually fits more along the lines of "if DTm is scum" as opposed to DTm is town who just can't comprehend advice. At the very least, if you are town, modify your night action that is independent of NS.

3. I can type in bold too. It won't help. Also, you claim to not wanting to generate noise and yet this isn't? What is your goal in this?

4. In regards to Equinox, I remember someone saying they were working on something so that priests without the same God could talk. I kind of assumed it was you but I don't remember who said it. My point is just whether or not you asked Equinox to do that to which you could have just said "no". That is it.

---------------------------

Interestingly enough, players have stated that they think Feysal AND DRK is scum so we should definitely be able to get a lynch regardless.

DRK is more likely scum than Feysal to me based on recent DRK posts.

vote DRK

.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

Feysal, DRK: You should definitely claim now. There is literally no longer any reason not to and if you are town, it could help prevent your lynch by claiming first.

Corv

[Corvuus]

Feysal: I don't think you've addressed this at any point. Equinox and DTmaster were the main starters/proponents of your wagon (first two votes, Feb 13th votecount) and yet they are at the very top of your list of town (Feb 15th, #14 iso Feysal)?

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Equinox: I'm not saying you are psychic. I'm saying that DTm 'claimed' PR in game-thread and, according to possible gambit moves for claiming PR in thread, did some sort of claims to his God/Priesthood. I didn't like exactly how he went about it, but I was ok with it since DTm-town would most likely have died horribly eventually because at the bare minimum he claimed PR in thread. That is why I gave him a pass since if he's town, he just outed and killed himself for nebulous rewards; if scum, then he still most likely wouldn't make it until lylo. Then you 'decided' at 5 days pre-deadline to ask for him to gain protection which makes the least amount of sense if you understand 1. his Gambit, 2. his analysis? and comments regarding his code/priesthood Quicktopic?.

I'm not saying you are psychic. I'm saying, if even I can tell that he needs to die, one way or the other, then asking him for protection just doesn't make sense. I'm not sure whether you understand this or not but it wasn't a pro-town move to do especially since DTm ended up responding very badly to it by "*hint hint*", claim, etc. Even then, I thought he was just screwing up possible town-gambit with the *hint* crap until he said that what he needs to do doesn't depend on whether or not he lives today which makes zero sense for all possible town-gambits which is why I voted for him. I didn't expect a 'bluffing' player to fold immediately regardless of alignment nor do I like the aftermath.

At any rate, my question was more on why did you do that or think it was a good idea to ask DGB since your reasons for protecting DTm were anti-thesis of DTm's own play? i.e. his in-thread plan was to die so he obviously isn't counting on his analysis skills, yet you believed in his analysis skills and didn't want him to die.

Corvuus
P.S. you should vote. If you can't vote Feysal due to NS-scum God, then why not DRK?

[Corvuus]

9 votes with 3 not voting is enough for a deadline lynch (9/15 majority). Better to hammer anyway though.

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Eclipse: It isn't hindsight. DTm accused me of skimming so I read every single one of his posts, line by line. Do you want me to accuse you of skimming?

I've given a piece of information to someone special via NS via QT. Before the lynch hits I would like for him to claim my special word and the target I sent to them as a change to the message I sent in QT assuming NS is scumbag. I've taken to account NS-scum, thus I reveal in thread now that I've claimed to NS and claimed my role to the specific person.

B-b-but I lie as town for gambit reasons. :< I'm sad that we have some pure absoluters. I find the truth to be effective as scum, and lying effective as town. Tricky reading, is triiiiickkky :p (Read OoT Mafia for that) / fluff @ theman

I'd totally god kill NS. I'd consider investigating TMH since his emotional play makes my gut alarm saying something. I want to read more SPY stories. I also have got a bad gut vibe from Fey from his page 9 wall and would consider looking there.

Tell me how this isn't soft-claiming a PR-role, nor of his gambit, etc. Or whether he is lying or telling the truth. You love his analysis though so you were reading everything he attempted right?

There is more, but frankly, it isn't an issue at L-1.

DGB granted you immunity, DTm will either die or live.

I won't be on until later tonight at best so I hope someone hammers now that DGB gave some spinach away. Kool-aid + Spinach = Pop-eye Immunity.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

wait.

What are you talking about? I never said that he softclaimed BP. I think DGB said something like that.

I'm saying he claimed a PR and the way he went about it was indicative that he was ok with drawing the NK. Sure, he could be a BP (or hider in this case) but he claimed 'something', said he was a liar as town, claimed to at least his god and 'specific' person or whatever and in terms of you saying his analysis is great, i'm not sure why you say this.

Also, what information leak are you talking about? How can I accuse you of something you bring up yourself? I accused you of either skimming/not reading, not understanding DTm's claim, and asked whether or not you two planned this together or it was something you decided independently. So what information leak are you talking about?

But, as i said, whatever. You have DGB's blessing, it is L-1 and I'm heading out. I can try posting more thoughts in my QT in case of my death, but you can wait until tomorrow since you are immune.

Corvuus
p.s. I don't understand why you and DTm like bolding. It doesn't change anything. Are you trying to get an emotional response?

[Corvuus]

I'm town and i'm not the source of any information leak that either DTm or Equinox are referring to since it is just plain impossible. So why would I pay attention to it when DTm's reasoning is silly in that he is assuming at some point, someone he QT via NS to is scum, scum posted it in daytalk, and then Corvuus-scum decided to do what he did against you??

If I knew all of the details of your gambit (DTm) beforehand and I was scum, I would have just laughed as you failed miserably. Seriously, get over yourself. My problem with you stems entirely from what your stated town-goals should be and what you actually did. In the most optimistic case, you are failed town.

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Equinox being granted God-immunity means that regardless of whether he is town or scum, regardless of night kill, vig, serial killer or any other possible thing in the universe, he will be here tomorrow unless there is some kind of strong-man bypass god immunity ability which would be kind of silly to me.

So don't try to claim mental slip when it is you two who are slipping.

First of all, i'm not in the group of people who you talked to. So I don't know how you can refer to me, or even DGB unless you are going to also state who you think of the group you talked to who was most likely part of your 'information leak'. This also negates completely if NS is scum God and everyone else in your priesthood is town. If i am pulling out details pre-claim, what possible details can you be referring to? You state that Equinox sums it up, but he didn't sum up anything. What do you agree with that Equinox is saying? Equinox, why did you ask for DTm to get immunity? Just for his analysis? I don't understand that. If you asked for him to get immunity because he soft-claimed PR, then what exactly are you doing?

Second, Why do you think there was an information leak? If you think there is one simply because I (and DGB in a way) called BS when you (DTm) started lying your ass off, then you have no one to blame but yourself. Up until the point when you start saying "hint hint", 'whether i live or die' and other crap, there was no major problem or reason to deal with you. Who do you have to blame for what happened? Yourself. If you just turned the DGB-Equinox BP offer down like a sane person by saying "I don't deserve it; give it to someone else" (heck, even if it was false modesty or whatever, or like what Equinox did) then nothing would have happened. I don't get how a person who attempts a town gambit (with a self-proclaimed meta as a town gambit liar) fumbles his bluff and folds so completely by saying impossible things like gaining info for town even if you are lynched immediately. Saying such a specific thing was either because you were actually worried about being lynched (since you are scum) or you are just a horrible gambit-town.

-------

DRK is hammered.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

Hmmm... food for thought.

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I was actually considering that LL might be scum (Fishy can attest to that). Her early post must have been her breadcrumb. I don't think LL claimed to her God.

Time is all you have on your side Battler.

Certainty is my power. Fitting that the god of Judgment would have a Priest of Certainty.

It is certain that time will run out on <YOU> Battler-kun. Prepare to be judged.

All I need now is for Dlanor A. Knox to show up, and we can really have a party.

P-Edit: DRKitty, if NS was scum, this could certainly be a gambit, because the

GODS CANNOT BE LYNCHED/KILLED.

NS can suffer the suspicion.

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The existence of a Traitor role makes Jack-NS interaction early on make sense. Jack is town who likes to just spout gambits and screw around. Scum most likely know of the existence of a 'traitor', so when Jack claims 'scum' to NS for just random giggles, NS, as the scum-God, KNOWS Jack isn't "true scum" but thinks he could be traitor who can be converted. So NS claims scum back to jack hoping to induct a scum member. Jack wtfs this.

The odds of a Jack-scum and NS-scum are incredibly low, while the above Jack-town and NS-scum scenario are quite high.

NS-scum God is actually the weakest possible scum God in terms of God power. So yay fishy.

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I'm not entirely happy with DTm/Equinox. DTm needs to claim his action.
Equinox: we can either handle this through fishy or however you might like.

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vote Benmage

I have a few reasons for this.

I'll see if Fishy-time group want in and I also what to see what DGB-group is up for since DGB lists him as a potential suspect.

We'll start with this, Benmage iso #6.

I was honestly thinking 4-5 scumbags for some reason.
Forgot there are FIFTEEN of us, not like 18-20.
Definitely 3-4 then.

I actually like 4 better; leads to less outguessing when we actually get dead scumbags.

I echo the sympathies of my Goddess.

3 + the scum god. Though mayyybe 4.

mayyybe scum.

Corvuus
p.s. i'm still on a type of early morning-late evening schedule, pst.

[Corvuus]

Tm: It isn't that likely that I'll be able to get your lynch so i'll just pray for you to die sometime before lylo.
In terms of DRK-Feysal, Feysal was more likely town to me than DRK, thus DRK was more likely scum than Feysal. It is just that simple.

I'm still less clear on what you are doing since it still strikes me as DTm-scum trying to get out of gambit by calling DRK certain town in order to get town cred and lynch based off that. I also don't see how you can call me 'lazy' when my goal yesterday was wagoning you for info which doesn't strike me as lazy but awesomely necessary.

But whatever. We're voting for the same person right now and I'm wtf. I'm less sure on Benmage or whether you are just bussing or whatever it is your doing. I'm keeping my vote on Benmage right now but i'm not comfortable with being on the same wagon with you so I'm going to re-read and consider Benmage's latest along with Hito but wtf.

----

Ugh. Maybe it is just all the Kool-aid and oreo cookie ice cream:
1. Equinox is town enough to me at this point.
2. Jack still strikes me as town who pulled his gambit that happened to be incident to traitor-Spyrex... but yes, it is possible that Jack could be scum that somehow thought that he should do that in order to lead to 'recruit' a traitor. I still don't consider it that likely and in terms of elaborate 'insane' gambits, Jack's is crazier than DTm's to me in that DTm's had potential reward, average risk while Jack's gambit is huge risk, low reward. If Jack didn't also have a meta of town-crazy gambits.... ugh. I'm not that up for a Jack lynch today.
3. Farside, Feysal and Lost Butterfly are town to me.

---

Equinox: You mention the "internet struggle", call on secret info. Benmage said it was "internal struggle" and I'm not aware of any confirmation or anything by NS in NS-iso... Ben did claim internal struggle PM but it is kind of weird to me.

Benmage: You said that you hate to be a game on the line mislynch.... and yet you are voting for yourself?

I'm not sure (especially with regards to DTm voting you) so what are you doing? I'm also not sure if you are flipping your response on Jack. You said it was unlikely jack did this gambit as scum yet now you are calling it worse idea ever and that he is scum?

I'm not sure how to categorize your response but it strikes me as scum going down in flames and either you are bitter or just throwing mud around. If you are town, wouldn't you be voting for one of your scum reads? heck, hito is one of yours with more votes than yours if you discount you self-voting.

Corvuus
p.s. gone for day, i'll try to be back tonight but schedule is messed up.

[Corvuus]

Hi all,

schedule has been crazy.

---

DTm: facepalms aside. I am not decided on you yet but I don't think you should be today's lynch. Further discussion to each other is just noise to me right now as I don't believe there is anything you could say to me that would make me think you are 100% town and we are just self-justifying our reads to each other.

----

Jack: You believe DGB is the scum God? I'm not clear on your reasoning.
In terms of 'facetious' posts, what exactly are you referring to? Clarify your original gambit?
I'm siding towards you claiming and I am willing to vote you but I don't see a reason to put you at L-1 in the off-random i have no idea why chance that NS picks up the hammer. So consider yourself at L-1.

----

DGB: I don't quite understand you in some part. I think NS is scum God and by logic, you must be town but ...hmm... tone down the 'excitement', playing all days now thing going on. At the very least, it doesn't help with daytalking scum.

Benmage: I'm not sure regarding you at this point. I'll post my thoughts with Fishy for now.

unvote

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

Other than farside unvoting jack and voting hito, (hito voting feysal), the last vote count is pretty much relevant.

Reading and thinking.
C

[Corvuus]

vote jack

. Jack is now back at L-2.

---

Andrius iso overall is more likely town. I also think town tends to not be aware of 'global' things in terms of traitor and controlling ones own speech and Andrius response to Spyrex is ok to me.

I think the traitor point is useful but pushing it this hard is strange to me in the sense that, yes, traitor hunting may net us scum but it is highly unlikely to net us multiple scum and scum can push it so that a 'losing position' of caught traitor results in innocents being mislynched as well.

----

I am less sure on Hito and look forward to more posting and I think people should keep an eye on Hito. I don't think Hito is the best lynch for today at this point.

---

I don't like Ben that much and he definitely shouldn't be allowed into lylo if possible (yes, I am ok with lynching you in future days pending further discussion) but i'm not open for his lynch.

----

I'm not sure NS's post helps or shines light on LLD. LLD stated that NS asked and she refused to give it to him, NS says she used 'certain' and 'information gathering' words. I'd say this doesn't make sense but... LLD spent her first 3 posts (in iso) with breadcrumb or hinting. If LLD specifically worded 'certain', etc. to NS, it is basically confessing 'some' kind of power role, and then she didn't trust NS and did it again in thread? Whether she died since she 'claimed' to NS or in thread, i don't think we'll know until end game.

NS: Can you do a list like DGB is doing? (although instead of fruit, it can be righteousness and judgment themed).

-----------------------

Jack: At this point, I'm 100% ok with lynching you.

1. If jack is town, then his PM lol caught NS-scum traitor fishing.
2. If jack is scum, then his 'PM' lol gambit was to traitor signal and it got Spyrex/NS-scum.

Either way, we gain information from Jack's lynch.

So.... Jack, if it is the first case, then you had better convince us now or else you WILL die.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

Ok. I havent played with you in a while Farside but i'm not sure what you are doing or getting at and I don't see what you are going on about for DGB and Hito.

The only votes 'directly relevant' which has changed is me voting Jack, you voting Hito. otherwise, nothing else has changed with regards to votes for hito/Jack. So what 'ass kissing', etc. are you talking about in regards to people changing on hito or jack? I already stated that i was ok with voting Jack but that I didn't want to put him at L-1. So unless you are accusing me of 'ass kissing' DGB, i have no idea what you are actually trying to accomplish.

In regards to Hito, I think he has posted more now than he has before, and in terms of recent posting for the past few pages, you can find Hito posts compared to others (like Jack). I'm not at the point that I think Hito is certain town that I should defend him but i'm not sure what you are doing. I think you are likely to be town and that you are in a way hunting for reactions/information but Hito IS posting, I'm getting a read on him just as you, etc. are and I'm telling you that I think Jack has a much higher chance than Hito in being scum. If Hito is scum, he isn't going anywhere so is there any other reason why you are trying to push this towards a 'two wagon for the day' choice when you think both lead wagons (and a third player) are all scum? I don't mind communicating through fishy if need be.

In terms of DGB, there are some parts I don't like, but, as I pointed out earlier, NS is the likely scum-God so other than telling DGB to tone it down (like wise you as well Farside), there is not much point in pursuing anything against either of you.

-----

Jack needs to claim and make his defense. There is no reason for town not to force this issue. If Jack is town (and thus telling the truth about NS claiming scum to him), then prove it to us Jack. Otherwise, Jack should die.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

Farside, don't get me wrong. I think you are more town than DGB and I'm not quite happy with the DGB jumping up and down and dancing on people's 'graves'. If I didn't strongly believe NS is the scum-God, I'd be a lot more wtf. As is, DGB is like a confirmed bulletproof townie who we hope votes with town.

I will not agree to an Equinox lynch based on 'traitor fishing' statements. I agree with Farside that there is no reason for multiple 'traitor' comments and further discussion HIGHLY depends on Jack's flip. Jack flipping scum (which I consider very likely at this point) will change this discussion. If, for some reason, Jack flips town, then the traitor fishing analysis changes again dramatically simply because if Jack was LOL gambit, then scum could look for traitor separately from Jack and it would explain many specific points that occurred.

Example: If jack is town, tell the truth, NS is scum. Spyrex reads the gambit as traitor fishing and attempts to get noticed but SINCE Jack is town and NS is scum, NS brushes off this read since he doesn't see traitor knowing him due to a town gambit.

There are other scenarios but further speculation isn't helpful without Jack's response or Jack's flip. Whether he flips town or scum, town gains profit. If he still isn't here and refusing to post, then he is refusing to prove he is town and he will need to be lynched, especially before we deal with any other possible 'mud'.

----

NS taking up the hammer freezes votes for 24 hours and if declared innocent, will cause everyone to unvote. This can only be used 72 hours before deadline so NS can not permanently save anyone. We could all just vote Jack again. God of judgment is the weakest possible power for a scum God. I don't know why he would take up the hammer at all except just for coolness factor since it doesn't matter that much at all in reference to his alignment since Jack's flip can be more informative than what NS does. If any of this isn't true then NS and Jack both need to step in now.

----

DGB: Jack isn't escaping. Immortal Gods who live forever should be more patient .

Corv
p.s. i'll be around late tonight but this upcoming week isn't good for me. I'll be on a similar VLA as the mod so let's force Jack to post or hammer him by wednesday at the latest and then we can have a break until mod returns.

[Corvuus]

My time is running negative . I am sorry but I am going to be

VLAish

and very limited posting and just early morning and late evening.

I have also not fully read. Mainly just iso'ed zoraster and Jack's new replacement.

Almaster GM needs to answer a few questions.

I don't know Zoraster's policy nor with regard to quicktopic/PM between priests and Gods and replacements.

Almaster GM, can you ask and handle PM/quicktopic discussion such that you have what Jack said and did, etc.
A major point for why Jack needs to die is that he pulled a gambit (iso jack) based on PM/quicktopic with his God and that he could pull this gambit as both town and scum and the conclusion for this gambit regardless of alignment would be toward NS being scum. If you can get this and PM/quicktopic, comment, post and say why you are town, it would be great.

If you can't get the pm/quicktopic/comment, then it is something close to a policy information lynch in that I sincerely believe that your slot must die. As it is, i'm heavily leaning towards scum-Jack and I'm not that clear on your replacing in posts since I would assume that Jack has a quicktopic with NS but you just said that he is your God, you worship him, but no communication or quicktopic mentioned? Again, there is nebulous meta involvement but you need to at least read Jack and NS, give your thoughts on that with full disclosure otherwise... die. (I don't think Jack is typical in flake/replace out and replacements should have some time but I can not stress how important this discussion and Jack/Alamaster GM's lynch and flip is. Even if Jack flips town, I strongly feel that it will result in better town positioning even if Hito is scum and we lynched him instead.)

---

hopefully back tomorrow morning.

Corv

[Corvuus]

trying to read and catch up.

With regards to Farside/Fishy:

I'm not sure how you two discussed me but it isn't completely accurate. I was literally walking out the door and just posted a quick reply to fishy which is the truth. I do base my initial town-read on Fishy based on Fishy-TMH quicktopic which was very few posts and the fact that NS is very likely scum God as well. I didn't develop it or make it point by point but I did state the truth in that Fishy-TMH was my main initial view for inferring fishy town AND i also stated that a Fishy-scum god (with time powers) would act differently plus difference in followers so I am convinced that my initial read is correct. I didn't have time for his question regarding who do I think is scum-God in that immediate post but I have posted my thoughts regarding DGB and I have stated why I thought NS is scum.

----

DTM, and others:

I don't understand your comments towards me nor your vote for me. It isn't even a serious analysis or accusation except that you don't understand my reasoning for why Jack/AGM must die?

I don't understand if this is deliberate misinterpretation but I did not say that Jack/AGM's flip is null. Far from it. I said that Jack's flip whether as town or scum shows NS is the scum God.

How is this null?

Jack-town does gambit -> NS scum knows of existence of traitor and so gets caught by it.

Jack-scum is doing traitor fishing and signaling which one is the scum God.

I am not saying that Jack/AGM is *certain* scum, I'm saying his flip is certain information and that if AGM can, he can post and if also pm/quicktopic show that he/jack/AGM are town and that NS is scum.

I don't consider this likely. He mentions that there are 2 points in the quicktopic with NS but this is strange since NS didn't make quicktopics yet or something and was doing PM and Jack himself said it was PMs that were exchanged. Unless this is a different later occurance which also doesn't make sense.

This is a very important lynch and I don't know why you guys are ignoring it. Even if I was convinced of hito-scum, Jack/AGM's lynch is of a much higher quality in terms of flip information. So when I say lynch Jack whether he is town or scum because even if hito is scum Jack is a better lynch, I actually meant it and if you guys thought about it, you would see why as well.

Let us say you lynch hito (who is claiming Vig, side with DGB, etc.) even if he is SK, what happens next? Even if Hito was scum, the possible scenarios for town to examine do not decrease as much as Jack's flip does.

Let's say we lynch one of the other players who has variable amount of 'potential traitor fishing'. This also makes zero sense in that if Jack is scum and traitor fishing, then the analysis is different and if Jack is town and just lol gambit caught traitor Spyrex and NS scum God then the analysis is different since scum may have fished independently of Jack-town.

It is a possible scenario which I have accounted for in all the possible permutations. So when you accuse me of either saying "null" or being wishy-washy, it is utter BS. I have considered Jack/AGM as town and as scum, reasoning and end results and permutations. He is THE best lynch.

Due to the fact that Spyrex-Traitor trying to signal he was scum may have fallen on deaf ears, it could signal jack was town so NS, etc. ignored Spyrex trying to signal jack since it just didn't make sense to them. We won't really know until the game ends regarding that.

So I gave Jack the chance to explain himself and while it is extremely unlikely he could convince me out of a good policy lynch where town gains info regardless of Jack's alignment, I was waiting. It hasn't happened and so I'm going to continue saying that Jack/AGM flip is extremely important.

I will note that I also considered the possibility of an outside role and that Jack, if a third party role, may have considered this possible gambit and thought it was good for various reasons. Example: Assuming Jack is a survivor: Jack is just loling around and doesn't expect NS to claim scum to him. He immediately posts this. Why? Well because scum will never want to kill him since it can pretty much verify that NS is scum. Jack/AGM at L-1 would have to claim vanilla since if he claims power role, then he WILL die at some point in the game in that, scum will kill him as he is power role, town will kill him as he lives too long. So what could have happened was great for Jack in day 1 (whether scum, town or other) but then blew up in his face with a traitor flip.

If he was a 3rd party (or even a total complete liar) then his policy lynch would be horrible in that a lying Jack town (i.e. never had conversation with NS) would be a false confirmation of NS as scum God resulting in significant damage to town in the long run.

To account for ALL possibilities, whether Jack is town, scum, other, liar, telling the truth, I worded my response in such a way so that Jack could respond and that hopefully his respond would illuminate which exact scenario it is.

AGM and NS have stated that there is a quicktopic and that there is some 2 lines or something in it. I see no reason for NS and AGM to both lie about this based on permutations so the scenario where Jack-town screws us all over is not possible. Thus Jack/AGM is still the best lynch since regardless of his flip, it proves NS is scum-God AND it helps with possible traitor fishing analysis.

----

If you still don't understand or like me, well i don't have the time. I am playing this game though and I am telling you that Jack/AGM *must* die since based on responses by NS and AGM, AGM is likely scum. I consider the AGM scum, NS town to be virtually impossible due to above/previous reasoning AND the fact that AGM's wagon would fall so completely apart when I go VLA when trading a single AGM scum for completely screwing over a town God and 'masons' aftermath is very reasonable.

I expect AGM to flip scum and when he does, there will be questions regarding all this other wagon/random crap that has filled these pages.

Corvuus
p.s. very vla-ish. Next potential post will be friday midnight ish for me most likely.

[Corvuus]

ok. I simply don't have that much time right now. I will probably get one more post in on Sunday evening and another on monday morning but that may be it for monday deadline.

----

DTm: I'm not sure why it is unclear to you my read or why my stance is my exact particular stance.

Before the traitor flip, I would not have lynched Jack and I have stated so and why. i.e. I saw no scum reason for Jack to do what he did and Jack-town has meta for doing it. So Jack is a likely town.

After the traitor flip, I was reading mainly into Benmage, Hito, Jack, LLD, Spyrex. I initially didn't see the scum-reason for what Jack did (I was considering other things) when Fishy asked me why I think Jack's gambit/actions couldn't have been done as scum. So I re-considered and thought about Jack-town and Jack-scum and permutations with that AND I read NS and Spyrex. DGB did make points on Jack/AGM which I read and understood but he also made points on Spyrex-posts-reaction and NS's posts-reactions.

DGB was also going kind of lynch crazy so while I agreed with points made, I didn't feel the need to acknowledge them since DGB's posts would most likely not net a response by NS or AGM/Jack so I tried a neutral tone route with the goal of getting responses. To point: I'm not aware of them responding to DGB but NS and AGM did respond to me regarding PM/quicktopic and i was hoping for more but apparently things derailed on to me.

Based on the responses and permutations, Jack/AGM is very likely scum. I would hazard 90% and NS is the scum God and 'verifiable/provable' by Jack/AGM's flip regardless of whether Jack/AGM are town or scum as long as Jack isn't a complete "ass"/liar but AGM and NS have eliminated that so NS virtually *must* be the scum God. I don't see how this point is hard to understand. To Equinox and others who think Jack/AGM is town, you do realize that Jack town should "ideally" tell the truth regarding all things and as such, Jack was telling the truth about the gambit and NS claiming scum to him? And that Jack verifiable flip town proves traitor fishing and that others had to have done it in addition to Jack-town?

I would love it if Jack was still here and able to post such that I could believe a Jack-town confirmed and thus a NS-scum God confirmed and we could spend the day lynching scum who *must* have traitor fished independently from Jack. Jack/AGM's response though isn't enough for me at this point and so yes, he must be lynched.

I don't see why some comments are saying I am unclear or wishy washy or not presenting a case when the case and results and expectations and optimization from Jack/AGM's flip is clear. Ironically, I will add that someone posted that lynching me and Corv flip somehow proves what Fishy is? I don't understand this nor how you can not see that lynching Jack/AGM proves what NS is (scum in BOTH cases) and that NS scum would clearly show that I am not scum. So why lynch me for some 'nebulous' information on Fishy which doesn't make sense when lynching Jack for info on NS makes complete sense?

--------

I have no interest in making a case against you (DTm) or Equinox. I have posted thoughts to fishy on this and why (and Fishy even questioned me why i think Equinox is town now as compared to before and my reads) but that is all i am going to say at this point for time sake. So asking me for a case on non-Jack/AGM is just noise and I don't have time for it. Again, I can not emphasize enough how important Jack/AGM's flip is and that if AGM flips scum, these other noise posts/cases are going to be re-examined since scum would try to prevent Jack's flip and NS reveal.

----

If this was all 'too long, didn't read';

To those who think Jack is town or not a good lynch; Why? Why why why why why?

I'm not fully clear on why some of you are voting me. DTm i answered, Farside I answered previously, tajo and DGB, i have no idea and Equinox (who accused me of being wishy-washy yesterday?) I don't know what you are doing. I have a very clear stand and reasons for it which if people put into a logic machine, it would pop out.

Jack/AGM is the best lynch. If you disagree and say Jack is town, then you are also saying that NS is scum-God and so I still don't see why voting for me or think that I am a better lynch than Jack/AGM.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

In terms of walls of post. I can't do sporadic posting as most of my time is available in one big chunk slot. So... not much I can do about that.

As for what people are saying are 'contradictions'.

First off, Jack without a traitor flip is town. I state so in my ISO which tajo just pointed out.

With Spyrex as a traitor, Jack's reasoning, stance, etc. has/had to be re-examined.

Here is my problem:

There is Jack's initial gambit (post #0 iso), followed by #5 iso and others in which Jack kind of lols around, says other than NS can be scum God and generally implies that he either lied about the whole thing while not backing down from him actually making the gambit. This didn't bother me since Jack is actually doing something and it fits his meta and he is getting some kind of reads.

Jack iso #19 is interesting to me in that "Feysal says that if I had told NS it was a gambit, he would have known it was. But he knew it was regardless because he knew what he did and didn't say". There is the point of daytalking scum and that scum would know who the other scum are so Jack claiming scum and NS claiming back is nonsensical (without traitor flip). There is divergent points at this part but it isn't clear exactly what Jack is referring to in what NS did or what he knew and didn't say. (This comes up later).

Jack is further cemented as a potential liar with iso #57 "I'm bulletproof", and AGM's claiming that he is townie.

Jack iso #77, DGB can be scum God, along with others posts for Fishy can be scum God, etc. etc.

I also find things inconsistent in Jack such as Jack SPECIFICALLY asked for Equinox to get bulletproof immunity from DGB (iso #27), yet in his iso #107, questions why Equinox is alive and has to be reminded of what happened.

His reads flip-flop in some parts and he doesn't go into any big detail or explanation. This didn't bother me too much actually and finally ended by Jack being replaced after Iso #104 and 111 in which there is, again, repeated repudiation of his earlier gambit.

So yes, Jack being a completely liar is very possible and I mention that possibility and account for it, along with 'bulletproof claim', and other more far-fetched possibilities. My comments and point to Jack/AGM and NS was for more specific information regarding Jack's gambit and in particular what was exactly said and done.

If Jack was still here, I would have expected a 'chuckle', laugh and brush it off. He could even say that the event NEVER happened and it would be pointless to lynch him. For that exact reason, I gave no reasons for why I want Jack lynched since "reason" influences "defense". AGM and NS have stated that there was "something" mentioned about scum and some exchange in quicktopic.

I have no idea why there isn't a paraphrase or further elaboration on this point (outright quotation is illegal and is not what I am asking for) especially given in the light of game posts #278 by LL, Feysal's #279 and Jack iso #19 (referencing 279 in game).

In particular, Feysal states that NS would clearly know it was a gambit and that Jack can be doing this to get reads on those who wish to lynch him, etc. Jack's iso #19 becomes "But he (NS) knew it (was a gambit) was regardless because he (NS) knew what he (NS) did and didn't say". Jack doesn't develop this more even later on with the traitor flip which strikes me as strange since Jack-town, NS scum with traitor flip information should be interesting to Jack yet he remains silent on Spyrex flip (small comment on Spyrex flip) and continues to repudiate his previous comment. This calls into question what exactly was said by Jack, by NS and perhaps Jack was just loling and DID claim scum to NS, NS claimed scum back (due to traitor existence) but Jack not knowing about traitor existence considered NS calling his bluff/knowing it was a gambit since, NS-scum should know who is scum and thus why would NS claim back to Jack? Jack either doesn't consider this or has other reasons. (speculative).

NS and AGM both confirming in-thread that there is a few lines of 'something' about scum said is important and it has already been several pages without anything further on this which AGM needs to elaborate on.

When I stated that Jack/AGM can be town or scum I was serious in that, there are a few specific points that Jack/AGM could make and clarify that would show his alignment to me in a definite way and clarify NS scum situation. I did not wish to elaborate since it has to be Jack/AGM's own words that give an answer and I don't want him picking one to satisfy me but AGM must say something or die.

If there is no further discussion or answer forth coming from Jack/AGM, then it is a great loss to town info and Jack/AGM again (for reasons I do not wish to elaborate more on in-thread, I can talk to fishy) should be lynched. There are also points to be made as to other's stance regarding Jack/AGM and NS. In particular, why mention Jack is a liar except to attempt a null on his eventual flip? Why are other players taking stances in such a way that is blurring this issue and I'm surprised not many comments regarding how NS must be scum God regardless of Jack's flip and how this wagon has gone.

*AGM: Clarify in paraphrase what exactly was said between you(jack) and NS. You don't need to read the whole thread for what I want and in fact, I was hoping you would just paraphrase it and full disclosure after replacing in.

-----

As for my other reads, I have posted with Fishy and I can say more in-thread but you guys hate my 'eye bleeding' inducing posts yet you want me to post more?

I don't quite understand the point on nopointactingup.

Town: (excluding Gods and AGM and nopointactingup for DTm action reasons)
Equinox
Andrius
Lost Butterfly

Farside
DTm
Benmage
Feysal
Hito
Tajo


I won't agree to lynching the top 3, nor also Farside. I have some specific thoughts that Fishy has in quicktopic for some of the players but I doubt knowing what I think would actually change people's minds other than maybe convincing you that if I am crazy, at least I believe in what I'm doing.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

I need some time to catch up and consider things.

----
Equinox: Fishy didn't really ask so much as just make the comment on who to protect if possible. I'm still not clear on temple of time strategy per se. I agreed to one thing but you actually mention something several times. Why? Did the rest of temple of time agree to your strategy?

DTm: My initial problem with you DTm was that revealing strategy/mentioning it is 'stupid' and that there was no town reason to reveal your role and your targets and then not change them when I said you should. Specifically claiming hider, posting the role, targets... intentionally 'screwing' up a gambit to pull off an even larger gambit... well, nice. I have some problems with you but this doesn't seem a likely course of action for scum, even planned days ahead and reveal now. DTm-town.

The nopointinactingup part is still not 100% confirmed to me in that, scum (especially with no roleblocker at all as you assume) could assume town has one and maybe blocked you for NPAU... it isn't that likely though so yes, DTM and NPAU both being town is likely. I won't agree to an NPAU lynch at this point.

I'm still not clear on what kind of conversation you had with NS and why you think NS is 'clear', even if you posted a real target to NS and NS scum 'should' have realized. I think you just said yourself that it is questionable whether NS even reads your quicktopic but I understand.

But setting that aside: At this point, to argue DGB is scum isn't that likely merely since DGB-Hito combo is killing scum. To claim NS is 'clear', you are claiming Fishy is scum? I don't see this as that likely but it speaks to something else *later.

----

NS: Can you paraphrase your conversation with Jack? I was hoping AGM would, so I'll ask you.

-----

I have some feeling for the temple of time. LB and Equinox are likely town but i'm not clear on Farside at all.

vote Farside

I'll try posting more tomorrow but my situation in RL has changed.

Corvuus

[Corvuus]

sorry about disappearing. A lot of things happened and i had to head home.

--

I'm glad town won. Go team go. I'm probably done with mafia for a while but maybe i'll see you guys in a year or so.

Again, apologizes.

Corvuus
p.s. I did read the post-end game/nacho. Nacho, i thought FF was town for pretty much the whole game and then in my last final post (to fishy and in game, considering DTM's claim), i was pretty wtf at the possibility of Fishy being scum. I didn't think i could call Fishy outright scum without him responding first but didn't ever get to read his response, etc. I no longer trusted Fishy nor the temple of time (my distrust of temple of time came in part from Fishy) and I was surprised at certain specific things that Fishy had done with Farside. I.e. Fishy appeared to get farside to vote me, then hedged, and then defended me. I guess that feeling didn't come across and you read TMH-Corv initial fishy interaction for FF town.