Advertising Mafia - Over, see 1183
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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are these accounts "use them or lose them"?
Or, if we don't assign the tracker accoutns today, will we be able to use them tomorrow?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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ah, rule 24: "a list of role actions unique to each Day."Adel wrote:are these accounts "use them or lose them"?
Or, if we don't assign the tracker accoutns today, will we be able to use them tomorrow?
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@TSQ, do you think the mafia has a kill each day?
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should both tracker abilities go to the same creative team to mitigate the risk of scot being scum and the risk of 1/2 of a creative team being scum?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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only if there is a kill without there being an assigned killing ability.Ren Hoek wrote: Does the above rule confirm it?
I'm town too. Two down.
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distractions aside, I think the trick for this game is to establish a process for assigning roles that is robust enough to withstand the decisions of bad faith actors (scum) in the decision chain.
A "good enough" for choosing abilities, and assigning them+keeping the creative director alive, keep us in power roles.
Keep the CEO alive, and we get an additional back-up creative director.
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I can see utility is assigning PGO and tracker to the same creative team. That would prevent the risk of scum targeting that creative team for a kill, and preserve the tracker result.
options:
A: Tracker + PGO to same team (scum won't target for a kill)
B: Tracker + Tracker to same team (scum would kill one of the trackers, and the remaining partner could be scum)
C: Bussdrive Creative Director with patsy
D: Assign PGO and Bussdriver to same creative team, switch High Value Target with PGO.
E: Assign tracker to two different creative teams. Also assign PGO to one of those teams (leaves creative director exposed)-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I figured out that role assignments should be Tracker, bussdriver, PGO.
scot should assign PGO+Tracker to the same creative team, and busdriver to another.
The busdriver should target any two players who aren't a member of the other creative teams. The busdriver should not tell his creative team partner who he targeted until the next day when a full disclosure of all movements is made.
The scum will be limited to targeting a player who isn't on a creative team (for fear of hitting the PGO, or outing that they knew who the PGO was) and either the CEO or the CD will be a likely target for the busdriver.
Essentially, this plan will tie the scum hands to killing a member of the accounting team, the most vanilla members of this game.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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so these people:- vollkan - Head of Account Services
crywolf20084 - Account Executive
Ren Hoek - Account Executive
Nuwen - Account Executive
Seraphim - Account Executive
curiouskarmadog - Account Executive
How about Ren & Seraphy stop flooding the thread until the other accounting people weigh in?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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i agree.Ren Hoek wrote: I suggest that it be left unanswered, in the tradition of "don't direct the vig."-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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what is "gutsy" about it?Seraphim wrote: That's a gutsy plan.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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why were you happy to go along with that consensus?Seraphim wrote:Earlier in the thread, the "safe" bet was to take two trackers and a roleblock. You are suggesting something radically different.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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why? which alternatives did you consider and why did you reject them?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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so you posted this within two hours of the roles being introduced
and you totally failed to do any further independent analysis, failed to collaborate with your accounting colleagues to examine other options, and failed to pressure other members of your accounting team to weigh in?Seraphim wrote:Unvote
I think I want to hear from the other members of our team before we get a "hammer".-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel wrote:
what is "gutsy" about it?Seraphim wrote: That's a gutsy plan.
so I ask you again, what is "gutsy" about my plan? It seems to me that I was just following through with due diligence that you have not displayed.Seraphim wrote:Earlier in the thread, the "safe" bet was to take two trackers and a roleblock. You are suggesting something radically different.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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so long as we can make our submission via PM to Korts, our partner doesn't have to know what that submission was.Seraphim wrote:One problem is the part where you talk about the member of Group A deciding who to bus drive without telling partner. Both partners know who is targeted.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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from the signup thread:
@Nuwen: what were the finer points you talked about? What did you learn from that exchange with Korts?Nuwen wrote:
I found the theme a bit overwhelming at first too.PokerFace wrote:Adel told me about these signups a day ago. The rules and roles seem a little complicated for my tastes, so I'd like to see the game run for a little while before I decide to jump into it.
/in to replaceTalking out finer points with Korts pulls everything together nicely.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Korts and I are both members of the open setup commission -- and we both know that scum group size does not increase as a linear function of town size. I'm not saying that there isn't 4 players in the scum group, but "FaerieLord wrote:So, now I'm counting the number of players, which is 14. 14 meaning there'll probably be 4 scum (calculating by 2 in 7p, therefore 4 in 14p)(calculating by 2 in 7p, therefore 4 in 14p)" would not be how Korts arrived at 4 players in a scum group.
I think this is false as well. The voting of the Acc is transparent, and we can hold them to makeing good decision by threatening to lynch them if they make choices that are not in the town's best interests.Acc services has 6 players (including head), therefore, there's a good chance of there being 2 in there. If Head of Acc is scum, therefore there's a chance of there being a 3 to 4 vote of scum vs town in deciding the roles, needing only one gullible townie to pass a vote in mafia's favour.
not a bad idea. More democracy should result in less probable scum influence.Therefore, I suggest that Acc Exec unvote atm, instead, the entire town will vote using a fake vote, making condensation improbable of being 3 to 4, and being 4 to 14, much better odds for the town
while I agree with the "stopping kill + identifying scum > identifying scum" argument... that is not the true choice that we have. The RB could not target a member of another creative team for fear of blocking the busdriver.Goatrevolt wrote:Adel: What do you think of using a roleblocker instead of a tracker?- 1. RB: won't target another creative team for fear of blocking the busdriver -> scum assign one of their members on the creative team to send in the kill
2. Tracker -> Can target anyone in the game except for his creative team partner.
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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List of roles from most important to least important:
CD
CEO
Creative Team Members
Acc Team Members
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1. The CD assigns PGO+Tracker to one Creative Team, and Bussdriver to another Creative team. Which teams he picks remains secret until the next day.
2. The Creative team assigned PGO+Tracker assigns PGO to one member and Tracker to the Other.
3. The Tracker tracks anyone besides his Creative partner. He does not tell his partner who he tracked until the next day.
4. The Busdriver switches 2 of any players not on a different creative team from himself (he picks two from: CEO, CD, Acc Team, and his own creative team partner). He does not tell his partner who he picked until the next day.
The important part is that the Tracker can only be safely targeted by the scum if his partner (The PGO) is scum. We will get his results, guaranteed.
The CEO or the CD will be one probable target for the scum kill. The bus driver gets to throw up wifom by probably switching one of them with a member of the Acc team.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I read it as "at most 2 CDs this game" -- I think we only get to elect a new CD if the CEo is dead and hasn't used his one-shot ability to elect a new member yet.Yosarian2 wrote: We really want to keep the CEO and/or the creative director alive, assuming they are town, because it sounds like town gets at most 3 creative directors this game, then town loses all roles-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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that wasn't the point. The point was to cause either the CD or the CEO be hidden from scum guns.Yosarian2 wrote:Wait a second...I was wrong, I think you can't use the bus driver to re-direct someone and make them target the paranoid gun owner.
that is my understanding.So, the bus driver has to TARGET two players, and if one of them is the PGO, then the bus driver would die, right?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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p.s. please poke SensFan and vollkan before this game gets too long. Neither of them have posted yet.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I prefer tracker to RB because it is more limiting for the scum, and there are a couple more ways that I can see for the scum to break the RB plan, depending upon who is scum.
The difference, I admit, is quite slim, but I definitely prefer the tracker plan.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Nuwen wrote:
My scumchat logs autoprune after they reach a specific size, lest they take over my hard drive. Korts' general gist was an explanation of the game's layout, role mechanics, department responsibilities - everything that's laid out in the setup outline, but in a more digestible format.Adel wrote:from the signup thread:
@Nuwen: what were the finer points you talked about? What did you learn from that exchange with Korts?Nuwen wrote:
I found the theme a bit overwhelming at first too.PokerFace wrote:Adel told me about these signups a day ago. The rules and roles seem a little complicated for my tastes, so I'd like to see the game run for a little while before I decide to jump into it.
/in to replaceTalking out finer points with Korts pulls everything together nicely.manymore details please. and quick.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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vote:vollkanfor posting so much elsewhere on the site, just not in this thread.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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to see what your response time was, and if anyone else would follow my vote.vollkan wrote:
Mind explaining the basis upon which you asserted that I was "posting so much elsewhere"?
glad to see that you are active again.
who do you think is scum?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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how about now?vollkan wrote:
Nothing concrete yet, but if I had to vote it would go on Ren Hoek for what seemed to be massive overreaching.Adel wrote:
to see what your response time was, and if anyone else would follow my vote.vollkan wrote:
Mind explaining the basis upon which you asserted that I was "posting so much elsewhere"?
glad to see that you are active again.
who do you think is scum?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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fixed.Ren Hoek wrote:Since I don't think that scum stick their necks out in broad daylight to work wagons on players that are threatening or inconvenient, that is exactly what I was doing. Now I don't understand why everyone is voting for me.
unvote, vote: Ren Hoek-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I think the optimal scum kill choice was a member of the accounts team- vollkan - Head of Account Services
crywolf20084 - Account Executive
Ren Hoek - Account Executive
Nuwen - Account Executive
curiouskarmadog - Account Executive
Seraphim - Account Executive
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?FaerieLord wrote:I especially hate how he calls a game full of great players (vollkan, adel, yos), full of idiots.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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tracker doesn't get results until end of day. Tracker should not claim until after he gets results.Yosarian2 wrote:Yeah. What TDC said, Ren Hoek. The scum killed someone who was voting for you. If they had killed someone who was not voting for you, you would be dead right now.
Anyway, if the scum only get one kill a day, then the roles should be safe now, and tommorow there will be someone different in the roels anyway. So if the tracker saw anything, they should feel free to claim now; there's no risk to it now that the scum have already used their kill for the day.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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why do you think he is weaker than Ren Hoek?FaerieLord wrote:
I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.adel wrote:why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?
(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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this doesn't jive withFaerieLord wrote:
I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.adel wrote:why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?
(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)
The most valuable role would probably end up getting switched with one of the weakest players... and I think you understood that.FaerieLord wrote:Ok, I got how Adel's plan works, and I think it's the best plan presented yet, partially because it's the only one I have fully understood
unvote, vote:FaerieLord-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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beg pardon?vollkan wrote: unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?vollkan wrote:
Well, if FL said she understood your plan, that entails that she understands that part of the rationale for the plan is that it allows for a situation where scum targeting a high profile target can have that target busdriven with a less high profile target. As such, it wouldn't make sense for her to appear so surprised by the death of Seraphim or, more accurately, for her to say that scum "chose" Seraphim (since, given the earlier statement, she should recognise the prospect of busdriving)Adel wrote:
beg pardon?vollkan wrote: unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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do you think that it is probable that either of those would be motivated by a town aligned alignment?vollkan wrote:
Most likely, either to feign surprise generally (sort of like an "Oh damn, X was NKed!") or, more specifically and strategically, to smear more high profile targets who were not killed.Adel wrote:
and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?vollkan wrote:
Well, if FL said she understood your plan, that entails that she understands that part of the rationale for the plan is that it allows for a situation where scum targeting a high profile target can have that target busdriven with a less high profile target. As such, it wouldn't make sense for her to appear so surprised by the death of Seraphim or, more accurately, for her to say that scum "chose" Seraphim (since, given the earlier statement, she should recognise the prospect of busdriving)Adel wrote:
beg pardon?vollkan wrote: unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.
Do you think it is more probable that he didn't understand my plan, but innocently thought that he did?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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like who?vollkan wrote: or, more specifically and strategically, to smear more high profile targets who were not killed.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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he refers to "that list" which I assume referencesFaerieLord wrote:
I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.adel wrote:why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?
(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)
which you will note came before FL posted:Adel wrote:I think the optimal scum kill choice was a member of the accounts team- vollkan - Head of Account Services
crywolf20084 - Account Executive
Ren Hoek - Account Executive
Nuwen - Account Executive
curiouskarmadog - Account Executive
Seraphim - Account Executive
which is a wold apart fromFaerieLord wrote:
I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.adel wrote:why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?
(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)
.. I'd already connected the majority of the dots for FL, and yet he still postedBudja wrote: A player who had not yet linked the two together upon seeing the kill.
I don't buy it.I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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crywolf20084, vollkan, TDC and Budja (& Nuwen or replacements) are behind the curve on activity.
Please compare and contrast the cases against Ren, Sensfan, and FL, summarizing the strengths and weaknesses of the case against each, and please conclude by telling us who you think is scum.
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@crywolf, where is that large post you had against Serephim?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I'm holding my cards close to my chest for now. I want other players to contribute more, and I don't want to serve as a pathfinder for the scum to get a mislynch.curiouskarmadog wrote:
Adel your thoughts on Sens? What do you think of his vote at the start of the phase? Your thoughts on his wagon? Your current position on ren?
I'm asking them specific questions in a specific way so that we can compare their answers, and the overall purpose is to get more even amounts of participation in thsi game.Ren Hoek wrote:Adel wrote:crywolf20084, vollkan, TDC and Budja (& Nuwen or replacements) are behind the curve on activity.
Please compare and contrast the cases against Ren, Sensfan, and FL...
Why are you guiding the lurkers to limit their analysis, and consequently their votes among 3 players?
It is a direct way to get them to comment on the three active wagons currently in play.Is that a sneaky way to give them excuses not to scum hunt?
From a Ren-town perspective, how could these question possibly help the town win? It looks to me like you might be spamming up the game thread with pointless dialog in an attempt to corrupt the signal:noise ratio. Keep it up and I'll commit to mitigating that risk by pushing for your lynch as quickly as possible. Diarrhea of the hands is not pro-town.Do you happen to know that all three of these players are town, and therefore, all good lynches from your perspective? Are your buddies among the lurkers?-
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I've got Sensfan in a private QT topic. My vote is on you for the reasons I've posted, but I have not updated my opinion in this game thread to reflect developments since I initially posted my case against you.FaerieLord wrote:
Which is bullshit since you're voting for me, meaning you're still giving them a "pathfinder". I'm still curious as to why you decide to be non commital to one person, but commit to the other side of it.Adel wrote:I'm holding my cards close to my chest for now. I want other players to contribute more, and I don't want to serve as a pathfinder for the scum to get a mislynch.
Also keep in mind that the game was stalled when I posted my case against you, and now it isn't. Our less active players now have plenty to comment upon.-
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I'm heartbroken that Nuwen is getting replaced despite remaining active on this site. Why do you think she has not been posting?Ren Hoek wrote: Also, I'm heartbroken that you are not saying anything about Adel's latest.-
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Ren is an alt that has only been used for this game. Based off of Ren's posts in http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... t=#1625218Budja wrote:
@All, have anyone played with Ren before. If so, is this usual behaviour for him?
Nuwen concluded that Ren was not TSQ. Based upon the time/date stamps between TSQ posts and Ren's posts on this site, I suspect that Ren actually is TSQ, and the posts in the "Goodbye All" thread were designed to disguise Ren's identity.
You can review all of Ren's posts on this site by viewing http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... 3&start=50 -- his first post on this site clearly outs him as an alt.
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@Ren: are you TSQ?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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which other alts have you used in the last 6 months?Ren Hoek wrote:I plead the fifth.
By providing a full and accurate answer I can use your total site meta to determine your alignment with a much better chance of being correct.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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you have two prods. I suspect that your other alts were busy posting while you were neglecting this game.Ren Hoek wrote:@ Adel - stop. You're just going to have to live without a meta.-
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unvote, vote: crywolf20084
she has plenty of time to make plenty of tother post: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... ywolf20084
lurker-scum in this game-
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meeting Yhtill in the mountains tomorrow.
V/LA for 86 hours from this post.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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ok, but I am not satisfied that Crywolf asking for replacement should be considered a null-tell on her.unvote, vote:Budja-
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nope, but I'll give you some fodder to base some posts upon:
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Scot, you were defending the people he was attacking. To lump you in with the other people he thought was scum is natural for a townie, not OMGUS.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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thanks guys, but I'm looking forward to Budja's analysis of it. That is why I posted it.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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I'm so tired of that rhetorical trick. Yes, I do have a list of prime suspects, and yes that list has more than three names. That I am suspicious of more than three people does not undermine the legitimacy of my suspicions.scotmany12 wrote:So you think I'm scum with Ren and FL and...budja?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Is that all that you have Budja? I'm expected longer & denser posts from Budja-town. Much more analysis.-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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in the post-game of Mini 802 you posted:
what was your scum meta that you played 100% to?Budja wrote:After the lynch, I thought Konowa was the Godfather, Jahudo the Arsonist.
I (unintentionally) played 100% to my scum meta and survived .-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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one more question: why were you lynched on day 1 of Mini 764?-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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