Gnosia Game over!

[shiki]

[shiki]

I got the character I wanted

I also got the characters i wanted *claps*

i received my second preference so it is somewhat likely one of the two of you received my first choice (though if so it is a little sad neither of you are posting as if you did)

however i think(?) i am probably the character that is most similar to me in terms of speech patterns and stats

[shiki]

In case there's a lie detector skill out there, stating outright that I win with town.

i am a human!!

[shiki]

If it's 1:1 with the game, then voting isn't anonymous and is actually revealed once the deadline ends and we see the results.

hmm

And that's about what I'd prefer with character claims as well. I picked Chipie since he's one of my favorites and I figured he didn't have a "signature ability" that would look threatening. I'm kinda surprised with his skill but I like what I got.

ope guess i should have read the rest of the posts first chipie was not my first preference lol

[shiki]

State your human.

In case there's a lie detector skill out there, stating outright that I win with town.

i am a human!!

i am still a human!!!

are you comet?

[shiki]

also

i, uh, don’t really get the conversation re:bug

like we just find towns/non-towns how are we meant to differentiate the bug specifically right now?

[shiki]

I think it'd be useful if someone tracked votes/FoS. Really would like to see others play along even if we don't have an official one

i mean, you could do so but it’d also be quite easy for me to do (so i shall (expect most compilation to occur in the late evening when i have computer access et cetera))

though i kinda think the main purpose of doing so (to compare to the actual vote results) is largely defeated by the mafia’s knowledge that we’re looking to do so

[shiki]

VOTE: Marashu

though if you’re looking for the data to be tracked maybe you could also provide your thought process here and such

as like

like i am currently planning on voting for marashu is maybe marginally useful to me but here’s what i am thinking right now is quite useful

ya know

[shiki]

It's just good practice I think. You can declare a lot by voting, and once this game starts rolling I want to be able to track people's intent instead of just guesstimating and having to sift through posts.

Maybe this game won't be like that though, maybe we won't reach 2000 posts by the end of D1.

okay but you can also declare a lot by explaining why you currently would vote for marashu right

and like, it’s so easy to mislead with both stated intent votes and actual votes but sure i will track the posted votes like i said guess i just think hm,

[shiki]

VOTE: Marashu

though if you’re looking for the data to be tracked maybe you could also provide your thought process here and such

as like

like i am currently planning on voting for marashu is maybe marginally useful to me but here’s what i am thinking right now is quite useful

ya know

Gut feelings/More about it later as it processes

hm are you thinking marashu is currently +mafia or +bug (maybe?) or simply +non-town

[shiki]

Thinking non-town at the moment. Adding that line about the lie detector just seemed like investigative bait; we know traitor comes up false green and Bug kills the cop

are you familiar with the source material? there’s a skill (the one not known 15 possibly used) that comet knows which involves directly asking if others are human and trying to use intuition to determine if the character responding is lying so i think(?) that’s what marashu was probably referencing there

though it was kinda a strange way for marashu to phrase it due to saying town as opposed to humans but ehhh feels fairly interchangeable to me

[shiki]

we know traitor comes up false green and Bug kills the cop

oh the engineer (cop) kills the bug if they investigate it not the other way around

hmhmhm

idk maybe marashu saying don’t want to claim characters/skills but also referencing skills others potentially have also noteworthy but dunno

[shiki]

VOTE: shiki

?

[shiki]

Therefore, if we start losing, they actually will be forced to try to vote bug out before they achieve majority. Which is hard as it sounds.

My understanding was that the Gnosia wins when they reach majority, regardless of if the Bug is still alive.

Am I wrong?

the bug wins instead of any other faction if the bug alive and another faction reaches win condition i believe

[shiki]

He obviously asks what human we have.

If question was about if i am human, he worded it "State if you are human".

i don't believe that's what not known 15 was asking?

but if so i am sq as anyone familiar with the source material as well as with me probably guessed from my stated affinity with my character

[shiki]

though it was kinda a strange way for marashu to phrase it due to saying town as opposed to humans but ehhh feels fairly interchangeable to me

Wanted to say it that way because at the time I didn't know whether or not there's a lie detector (to be fair, I still don't) and wanted to cover for bug/traitor coming up human in case it's an actual lie detector and not just saying you're human. Don't know if it's NK15's actual skill or if it's a bluff, but I lose nothing by going along with that as well.

FakeGod's intro is giving me +traitor vibes.

hmhmhm

but there still isn't an actual 'town' just 'humans'

[shiki]

But I do think that crew is more likely to use it now, especially after the conversation about tracking FoS/vote intents happened.

it is like

hard for me to see the usage being wholly unrelated to my conversation with autere would be a weird coincidence et cetera

(also makes me maybe a little ! towards autere but hard to see how that would have come together as like a PLAN ya know so probably paranoia)

but it feels odd that a town wouldn't just claim it after using it or even ask the thread before doing so ya know

like is there any benefit to not revealing that information if the user is town?

[shiki]

I am the Engineer!

Whoever wants to counterclaim: now or never.

I counterclaim.

I am Engineer.

uh, are the two of you standing by these claims?

[shiki]

I am the Engineer!

Whoever wants to counterclaim: now or never.

I counterclaim.

I am Engineer.

uh, are the two of you standing by these claims?

like it just feels kinda convenient the way this played out

but like if it's a ploy it's probably a mason thing so!

and if not it's kinda ???

[shiki]

I am the Engineer!

Whoever wants to counterclaim: now or never.

I counterclaim.

I am Engineer.

uh, are the two of you standing by these claims?

like it just feels kinda convenient the way this played out

but like if it's a ploy it's probably a mason thing so!

and if not it's kinda ???

also like

was enchant talking about not looking for the bug supposed to be a smokescreen then?

[shiki]

So yeah i don't care about bug.

like if supposedly engineer then

i assume you do care about bug?

and this was meant as disguise?

[shiki]

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

consider me unconvinced of either of them

yeah this mostly

but it is probably partly due to my prior knowledge of both players

enchant from firsthand experience and not known 15 from a few newbies i've read where not known 15 made some very ??? claims

[shiki]

enchant putting a lot of effort into it for it to be a ploy by both of them together though so

dunno

maybe claim counterclaim situation then afterall hmm

[shiki]

but if so i am sq as anyone familiar with the source material as well as with me probably guessed from my stated affinity with my character

though kukrushka was my first choice and i remain slightly saddened that noone is posting as though they chose kukrushka

[shiki]

maybe claim counterclaim situation then afterall hmm

eh still seems wonky tho

[shiki]

why would u ?

Why would a town player counterclaim a cop claim?

why would a town player fake a cop claim?

i mean,

it doesn't seem like it would ever be 'correct play' or whatever

but not known 15 fakeclaimed mason in a newbie as town

viewtopic.php?p=13190123#p13190123

and correctly identified the mafias in the process, so, shrug

it doesn't seem like an impossibility to me

[shiki]

but not known 15 fakeclaimed mason in a newbie as town

He was about to be executed in that game when he made the claim.

Very different situation here.

i'll agree that it's not 1:1 of course but i really don't think fakeclaiming cop as town here would be particularly unlikely for not known 15

and i don't really understand the logic that either not known 15 is truthful or not known 15 is not town

like sure it's suspect but i don't see how it would be a concrete fact to you seems kinda ... to me

[shiki]

like town's do things that would not be considered 'correct play' fairly frequently, yes?

and sure they are often eliminated for it

but also maybe not known 15 and enchant going to stick to their claims and then we have little choice but to choose between whether today or in future

so once again, eh

[shiki]

why would u ?

Why would a town player counterclaim a cop claim?

why would a town player fake a cop claim?

also also

it'd be weird for mafia to fakeclaim engineer in general here because engineer can eliminate the bug for them etc

so yeah

dunno

but hey maybe that's why marashu et al want to keep both engineers alive today

[shiki]

Considering you've been pretty active in the thread I'd expect you to be able to post a full reads list and that would help me town read you.

do you do you do you do you do you do you do you do you do you

really think that being able to post a reads list is particularly plus town

[shiki]

Autere, what do you like to do in your free time within the game of mafia? 143, 153 and 159 seem like you're pretty invested in figuring out Roden's alignment.

I'm amazed it only took me 9 minutes to find that quote of junko. I guess I will lob a question at Autere.

oh hi

nevermind

probably just engaging in known town behaviour tm get everyone involved et cetera

[shiki]

Autere, what do you like to do in your free time within the game of mafia? 143, 153 and 159 seem like you're pretty invested in figuring out Roden's alignment.

I'm amazed it only took me 9 minutes to find that quote of junko. I guess I will lob a question at Autere.

oh hi

nevermind

probably just engaging in known town behaviour tm get everyone involved et cetera

also like

downhill vs ranger flatground

which idk how much i believe in the effectiveness of but probably +town

[shiki]

If Enchant's claim is fake, he decided to CC Engineer in 1 minute 26 seconds
I'm of the opinion that that's not enough time for him to have confidently decided to CC if it's fake

...unless Enchant made that decision before I claimed.

Nah I don't think Enchant did that.

i mean, enchant was actively thinking about claims long before the game even started

viewtopic.php?p=13558956#p13558956

how are you weighing the likelihood here

[shiki]

My only concern was that your ability is a One shot. Which I'm assuming it's not by how you are talking. That's my biggest concern with this game

Abilities in the source material(yes I know it) are usually

not

one-shot. I'll explain later. For now please follow the instructions.

From what I've learnes about the lore. I believe this

For clarity sake.

I am human.

Elmo's town

could you like

please walk me through what town thought process

you are detecting from elmo in 304

?

like to me

sure from source material not all abilities one-shot

yup sure

i am human yup again sure standard response

but why do you think this comes from town!elmo specifically like what thoughts do you think elmo is having that brings this together into, oh look a town! ya know

[shiki]

also i am not sure what not known 15 is even asking us to do with regards to character ability anymore,

I have used it already...

I don't believe you.

Doesn't matter. Quote my post, and affirm. Now.

like are we supposed to be saying

'i am human' as i first assumed

or are we meant to be saying

'state you're human' as scoliosis then did

which, uh, wouldn't really make any sense to me

[shiki]

Why do you assume that post specifically is the reason I think Elmo is town
Elmo posted quite a few times in a short space

i assumed due to you having replied to other things between the other elmo posts and 304 but my appreciation for the time aspect may be lacking due to my having not been here in realtime;

which of the posts do you think demonstrated a town thought process then and could you explain that town thought process to me?

[shiki]

I thought these two posts were both very towny

I think 296 demonstrates that Elmo hasn't thought about the setup much prior to this. I believe Elmo is quoting that because she is actually using that to start from scratch in her thinking about the setup. I believe if Elmo were scum, there'd be a scum PT to use for that instead/there'd likely already be sufficient discussion there that she'd not need to do this. I understand that this is easy to fake, but I don't think posting this is the likely route Elmo takes if she were actually scum. (I have a fairly large amount of experience with Elmo, and although it was years ago I feel like I had a grasp of Elmo's playstyle/thought process and a lot of that is transferable. I don't think Elmo's the type of person who thinks 'oh I'll feign setup ignorance because that'll make it seem like I know less than I do as scum'.)

I buy Elmo's FakeGod townread, I can see how she came to that conclusion and I don't think it's the kind of read she feels the need to share as scum.

hmhmhm

eh setup stuff

it is like,

such an easy entry point for mafia because applies regardless of alignment

but that's probably why i also shrugged at elmo's fakegod read because it is like, definitely not something i thought was particularly towny so it seemed so strange to me for elmo to say 'if fakegod scum gg' ya know

but i am also lacking the familiarity with elmo that you've stated you have,

so, hm

[shiki]

I feel like people often get caught up in how

easy

something is to fake to the neglect of considering how likely a scum is to

choose

to fake something

I think there's a ton of scumhunting potential in figuring out what kind of people players are, how they're likely to make decisions, especially because lots of people have a much narrower range of behaviour than is usually expected when playing Mafia

But like, that's just my opinion, man

well i am not familiar enough with elmo to try to figure out what kind of player elmo is,

nor do i think that would be something i would be particularly good at and so forth,

but i do know that scums often are looking for like, entry points into the game

like a way for them to post and such and that that is a fairly common one

[shiki]

VC 1.2

narrow parking (3): Enchant, Marashu, Not Known 15

yupyup both our engineer claims still voting together excellent

[shiki]

VC 1.2

narrow parking (3): Enchant, Marashu, Not Known 15

yupyup both our engineer claims still voting together excellent

Why's that a problem?

it’s not just kinda ???

like if one uninformed traitor no info anyway

so it’s like,

are you assuming enchant happens to be voting a gnosia? or is gnosia and thus knowingly voting a teammate? or do you just think narrow parking is the very most likely non-enchant non-town right now?

or?

[shiki]

Right now i am motivated by pressuring narrow so he claims he is Not Engineer, so he won't pull claim from his ass if/after NK15 die.

i would be fine with everyone claiming everything today but everytime i’ve suggested that day one in the past there was a lot of pushback i think people find it to be Not Fun which is fine i get it

[shiki]

I was worried about shiki for random reasons but her recent posts have put that at ease

[shiki]

zzz

[shiki]

That's interesting. It means Coroner can sort it.

I hope this ability was not 1-shot?

if there was another shot

do you think

it should be used on you right now?

[shiki]

Is there anybody who I should ISO?

… it’s seventeen pages

[shiki]

Is there anybody who I should ISO?

… it’s seventeen pages

also hi

[shiki]

can still be

scumvtown
bugvtown
traitorvtown

I doubt there's a traitor between the 2 cops anyway, if this was chat mafia I buy it, but what are the odds that "traitor enchant" so happened to be there to counterclaim right away

bugvtown doubt it too because bug should know that they dont live to end game with this like ever and if they don't cool we got they bug trapped

hm

i suppose not known 15 could still be traitor and fakegod gnosia yea?

and that wouldn’t be like

like super unsafe for scum!fakegod right?

because doctor (coroner) gets human/gnosia result yeah?

[shiki]

Well. Everyone reacted, so i can admit.

I am not Engineer.

That was fakeclaim.

mhm mhm

quelle surprise

[shiki]

Well. Everyone reacted, so i can admit.

I am not Engineer.

That was fakeclaim.

so…

what’d we (you) gather from all that

?

[shiki]

Not CCed Engineer.

sure

which is something yeah can see some value

anything regarding the alignments of others?

[shiki]

i

what do you

make of klick

seemingly being unaware that gnosia don’t have daytalk

while discussing what elmo would be likely/unlikely to fake as mafia

ie do you think klick would be likely to fake this as mafia

/

cheeky enough to do so while talking about what mafia would be likely to fake?

[shiki]

i

what do you

make of klick

seemingly being unaware that gnosia don’t have daytalk

while discussing what elmo would be likely/unlikely to fake as mafia

ie do you think klick would be likely to fake this as mafia

/

cheeky enough to do so while talking about what mafia would be likely to fake?

here: 343

[shiki]

question also open to others i suppose

[shiki]

i

what do you

make of klick

seemingly being unaware that gnosia don’t have daytalk

Where did you read this?

343 if referring to the klick post

2 if referring to the rules post

[shiki]

I haven't played Gnosia and I don't know much about it but uh hey I have an anime avatar

[shiki]

guess i would have liked elmo’s thoughts on 446 due to familiarity with klick but didn’t know would be around

[shiki]

still don’t think the ‘you are mafia!!!’ attempts at interaction are super effective as people’s reaction to that sort of thing is often based on personality not alignment

but eh

not really a game relevant conversation

[shiki]

do you

make anything of

ranger basically claiming vanilla town?

[shiki]

State your human.

A human containing a voice and vote.

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15, narrow parking}
{Elmo teH AzN}
{Marashu, Enchant}

you mean this?

yup standard vt wording

[shiki]

do you

make anything of

ranger basically claiming vanilla town?

Why would you point this out?

would rather discuss it with regards to ranger alignment than ignore

it is like, if ranger town, sure mafia might have missed it though not very likely

but if ranger mafia, town might have missed and she might be able to claim later et cetera

and also like, ranger good investigation target because of claim

and it seemed odd to me that ranger would make that post outside of potential wifom and if the purpose is wifom then discussing adds to anyway, so

;

do you make anything of it?

[shiki]

Wait.
Why are people claiming character abilities?

How do you even activate one?

Can somebody answer this?

do you not have one?

[shiki]

mine is not activated in thread but it seems believable to me that others would be based on the source material

[shiki]

Shiki is the bug I think?

i am not though i am interested in your reasoning

(unless you’re gnosia in which case sure shoot me and find out)

[shiki]

Shiki is the bug I think?

i am not though i am interested in your reasoning

(unless you’re gnosia in which case sure shoot me and find out)

VOTE: shiki

You know why..

..? i don’t

[shiki]

Or, Ranger would make a lot of sense as bug actually, who is townreading scum.

? you bugread me for suggesting that ranger may be bug / generate discussion regarding then say this

like

…

i think information benefits town obvious don’t really get it

[shiki]

Or, Ranger would make a lot of sense as bug actually, who is townreading scum.

? you bugread me for suggesting that ranger may be bug / generate discussion regarding then say this

like

…

i think information benefits town obvious don’t really get it

like

i think ranger makes sense as bug based on claim (which i am still thinking about ranger’s response to) and think investigation there makes sense and you’re like shiki is the bug! also ranger makes sense as the bug

which is rather

…

[shiki]

I'm slowly realizing that this turned out to be a role madness game in disguise, and I think that's something you need to keep in mind here.

Role madness where we got to choose what role we got, and that role is nai because it's tied to the character, not the alignment.

Does Maria has favorites or something? I didn't pick my character or ability or anything

I'm only not going yandere mode on Maria becuase I got best character in the game and I'm happy BUT STILL interested about my question here

in the signup thread maria said if you have a character preference pm me your top three - don’t think anyone got to choose their abilities, i know i did not

[shiki]

Shiki fos. Their reaction continues to be terrible (530)

IMO get shiki first for pointing out tpr tell in a game without daytalk. 464

Explanation for their behavior is lamist because it's basically an excuse of "trying to generate information." 498

Autere fos.

484, 495, 496 point out what I dislike about autere. I fos autere now.

I also fos freedom for having a bad iso, elmo I guess because their reaction to junko, and idk jessica rabbit as the last one I guess for being a wallflower.

she please

or it

if you need/want to use a pronoun to refer to me

——

still don’t get what you think is terrible about my reaction nor what you’re even bugreading me for in the first place since you agree with me

but eh

[shiki]

still don’t get what you think is terrible about my reaction nor what you’re even bugreading me for in the first place since you agree with me

but eh

I think you keep stating this over and over again as a way to actively avoid the issues I clearly explained in 519, which have nothing to do with whether or not you are the bug.

you said you thought i was the bug so i thought you were providing reasoning for that?

i didn’t point out a pr claim i pointed out what i thought to be a vt claim which seemed odd to me and possibly bug indicative

and i am human and that’s what i was doing - does that make it lamist? i dunno

[shiki]

Shiki is the bug I think?

you had just said this…

[shiki]

and i didn’t/don’t understand i often have comprehension issues which can easily be checked shrug

[shiki]

Shiki is the bug I think?

you had just said this…

Yes and you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

so my thinking you were bugreading me because you said you thought i was the bug is somehow scum indicative?

like if you’re trying to establish that you’re smarter than me sure you probably are but that doesn’t make me mafia

[shiki]

Hey fakegod, considering this is a follow-the-cop game where scum have no day chat for tpr hunting, I thought it might be especially pro town of me if I pointed out that I noticed you are probably a vt. I encourage everyone to voice in on this so we can "generate" some "information."

Don't mind me, just engaging in regular pro town behavior.

is the main issue simply that i believe it is pro-town for everyone to claim day one?

because this is true of me as a player - i have claimed day one plenty of times dating all of the way back to one of my first games on site (as team rocket queen - i think it was newbie 1992 - sorry on phone) with marashu where i trueclaimed mason in my first post (though in a semi-deniable way by referencing another player’s intro) and i have also suggested early massclaims various times on various accounts sometimes even pushing for them often unsuccessfully

and!

more applicable to this setup in particular,

my very first introduction to mafia was through twitchtv dailymafia

where the main format was

cop
doctor
vts
mafia

no flips no daytalk

and the ‘breaking strategy’ in that format was day one massclaim

prevents massive amounts of wasted time / gets all of town to solve in the actually possible worlds / narrows mafia options

and that format shares a lot of similarities with this one,

so!

like if the problem is that you disagree with this sure you’re not alone but it kinda feels like you just want to say it’s mafia indicative

[shiki]

Why do you want the coroner to come out?

Our guardian angel is going to be on the cop claim. Coroner will just get shot.

To reduce scum claimspace

this and also it allows the guardian angel to optimize chance of actually making a save on a pr or forces the mafia to kill a non-pr to not risk chance of save et cetera

like i don’t really think ‘guardian angel is always on cop’ is optimal if everyone has claimed

but maybe potential fail state isn’t worth the risk even if making a save / non-pr dying is the most upside

kinda hard to weigh

[shiki]

i mean maybe i am just being very stupid here but a save seems very beneficial to me - we have to find 3 mafias and a bug and only have 3 misses and a save buys us an additional one unless i am misunderstanding but okay

[shiki]

but also let’s not waste one of our limited misses on me +)

[shiki]

and!

the traitor counts as a miss

so we really can’t afford to eliminate a town today so if everyone who has any doubts about me could talk to me pretty please or do whatever it is you would do to sort me please do

i am here ya know

[shiki]

Yeah I agree with Enchant and FakeGod here. We need to protect the cop. I also don’t really see the wisdom of mass claim on day 1? Later I can understand but why help scum out by giving them unnecessary info? I’m not an expert on mech though but I think that makes the most sense.

i think the info is more beneficial to town than it is to mafia as i outlined above but it seems i am outvoted on this, so

[shiki]

Reminder:

1. The Guardian Angel is not allowed to claim.
   Only the people on Guard Duty can claim Guard Duty.
   The Bug cannot be killed by Gnosia, however they will die if investigated by the Engineer.
   Gnosia do not have day talk.
   All character abilities are one-shot unless stated otherwise.

All Role PMs are out! Waiting for 14/15 to confirm.

(13/15)

So I think we really need to keep the cop alive at all costs because if they die, that will just lead to misims trying to lim the bug.

noone is saying we should sacrifice the cop or anything like that;

but yeah the engineer killing the bug gives us more room as well

[shiki]

Wait.
The Doctor can't claim, remember?

doctor is coroner

guardian angel can’t claim which is functionally doctor

[shiki]

Shiki I don't think they're gonna understand why Doctor needs to claim now until it's too late AKA tomorrow when it finally sets in what a flipless setup means

idk feel like my thoughts on mech / claims and such have done little other than create a mess even if i still think they make sense so i’m probably just going to focus on finding a mafia when i wake up and hope anyone who has any questions / doubts with regards to me takes me up on my offer to talk / be sorted in whatever way

[shiki]

Shiki I don't think they're gonna understand why Doctor needs to claim now until it's too late AKA tomorrow when it finally sets in what a flipless setup means

idk feel like my thoughts on mech / claims and such have done little other than create a mess even if i still think they make sense so i’m probably just going to focus on finding a mafia when i wake up and hope anyone who has any questions / doubts with regards to me takes me up on my offer to talk / be sorted in whatever way

That's probably the only thing we can do tbh. I think everything you've said WRT mech makes sense and is the most effective way to play this set up, I just don't think most people will understand that if they don't have experience with this set up/the game beforehand.

What are your reads looking like right now?

i don't really know how to weigh some of the things against eachother but will go slot by slot and compile thoughts

i think part of the difficulty is that some of the things are based on a very low volume of posts;

like my main thought with regards to marashu is that marashu felt like present in a towny way very early in the game but that wasn't really maintained and little else; don't know what to make of recent posts

[shiki]

for scoliosis it is like,

doesn't always feels like scoliosis believes in push but like i said earlier could just be a playstyle thing

like it's very hard to tell the difference between

exaggerated because scoliosis feels that is best way to present thoughts to sort whoever is on receiving end

and

missing on trying to have the right amount of conviction

but because it's consistent willing to give benefit of doubt and say that it's playstyle

have thought a few times that scoliosis could be like, reapplying things from the thread to other situations - my saying scoliosis may have been doing something with the sole purpose of generating content -> scoliosis then saying that my explaining why i was asking about ranger's claim was me falsely saying i was trying to generate content for example - but it is like, do mafia really do that sort of thing very often? probably not

[shiki]

for marashu most of my thoughts are above other than like,

recent interactions could be angled towards me

but i have posted a lot and it's a very small sample size, so

[shiki]

for roden it is like,

want to check if you were in radio buzz when i talked to galron about like my views on people facilitating communication at some length

but even if so probably unfair of me to not view as +town as i usually do even if you were aware

(you were but eh)

think the thoughts on autere's complaining / enchant's helpfulness felt somewhat towny

[shiki]

can't really even try to connect throughline of jessica rabbit's other than 'claims bad' which comes back around later so could very well be a held belief

haven't really noted anything else one way or the other

looking at now could be like, overly focused on small things and mech stuff rather than like, finding mafia

kinda feel like i am doing exactly that when looking at iso too

[shiki]

i dunno if like

the feeling that elmo is timetraveling is greatly lessened by elmo being aware and apologizing for jumping around the thread,

still don't really follow elmo's fakegod read,

[shiki]

kinda inclined to believe that klick's seemingly not knowing there wasn't daytalk is plus town as well,

don't really follow most of the reads but we approach game very differently

[shiki]

already posted most of my thoughts with regards to ranger

if you squint and really try to connect each readslist to the one before it as well as to the posts you think ranger is looking at between them it feels like

consistent as far as i can tell and applicable

at the very least ranger is going through the process of carefully reviewing them and that would be A Lot for mafia to be doing

seems more likely to me to come from town or traitor or bug who doesn't know the solution

giving a wait and see to 'voice and a vote' now - don't really have enough information to attempt to reach any sort of conclusion with regards to ranger's further explanation of this

[shiki]

freedom's questions with regards to abilities still seem odd to me but recent posts have felt okay even if possibly prompted by scoliosis's 'real thoughts' post

want to note scoliosis's dismissiveness towards freedom when compared to other interactions

[shiki]

guess i would also like fakegod's answer to the question i asked enchant, though slightly modified,

would you use ability again right now if you had another shot?

most of fakegod's thoughts are with regards to mech so i guess i can see how fakegod would reach conclusion that disagreeing about how to procede would be mafia indicative

maybe

if one of them dies during the night we know they're both town cuz scum doesn't want to get rid of that kind of wifom.

What is this logic??

lol forgot this happened

'claim and counterclaim are both town if one of them dies during the night' is a pretty funny take

[shiki]

junkochan has felt very town to me and thus my inclination to ask her thoughts on things i was having trouble weighing,

dunno if i can put a lot of words to this but i am often looking for like

a pillar or whatever and junkochan was my most confident town

[shiki]

'claim and counterclaim are both town if one of them dies during the night' is a pretty funny take

though i also thought there was a decent chance both were town and maybe even more so now

[shiki]

enchant obviously excited by the format here and thus the preplanned counterclaim and such,

post following reveal of not the engineer about preventing counterclaims seemed good and logical

though rescinding of claim coming shortly after fakegod use of ability and me asking about a second shot makes me a little uneasy

as if traitor and fakegod truthful enchant could still get found out potentially

but also traitor still a miss and i don't currently think traitor more likely than town anyway

and rescinding could very simply have been because didn't want the guardian angel to not know who to save based on later enchant comments, which would be some of the benefit of a mafia counterclaim anyway which enchant worked to prevent, so!

since not known 15 had already claimed et cetera

[shiki]

for marashu most of my thoughts are above other than like,

recent interactions could be angled towards me

but i have posted a lot and it's a very small sample size, so

oh the lie detector thing! was reminded of this when looking at autere's iso

still think this was oddly preemptive of marashu and the wording maybe questionable, (think enchant also used town wording when replying to not known 15's state your human)

((also also probably should have been compiling notes for myself to not potentially forget things such as this but eh feel like this has often led to me losing myself in a rabbithole))

[shiki]

still have that tingly feeling with regards to autere talking about tracking fos votes and then someone using an ability that made day 1 an actual vote

I'm not asking you all to be brain surgeons but I really am fucking perplexed that the front of discussion has been what it is. The start of this game was NK15 claiming engineer in the most hackneyed way by intentionally misspelling his apparent ability, which he then (unprompted) claims Engineer of all fucking things. This causes Enchant to CC, and my initial thought is that 'ok, so Enchant is likely real because he didn't want to out like a sensible person' but ho ho ho I thought it was supposed to be December but you could've fooled me that it was April with how much fucking jokes have been played. Excuse me for being skeptical about FakeGod's ability when we've already seen what's happened prior. So what else is going on? Meandering discussion that amounts to nothing but setup analysis and flavor wank that is

tonally daft and boring

it's like I'm being educated about Gnosia and if I wanted to do that I would've played the fucking game. Please for the love of god can we get some nuance in here. The thread is bone-dry with surface level takes it makes me want to participate with a coma than this shitshow.

and i don't really like

understand why this post exists? / feels like,

like isn't the solution simply to interact with posts that aren't 'educating you about gnosia' and to interact with those who are about other things,

i guess i feel like,

like,

like there was not a dearth of posts outside of this umbrella autere could have easily posted about instead

same as with the vote counting thing like instead of doing so stated that it should be done, instead of doing so with regards to content not about source material stated that others should provide it,

and i don't know if being so seemingly upset with that tracks

Call me nostradamus but I predict NK15 will retract as well. I'm not very happy about this but I'm biting my tongue for the sanctity of the thread

though i thought this numerous times

and i don't really have any basis from which to judge if being so upset about something like this instead of doing something about it is actually alignment indicative

so guess i would like others' thoughts on this

[shiki]

going to function as if not known 15 is the engineer

like even if i wouldn't put my belief in this at 100% seems like only reasonable worldview to work from right now

[shiki]

going to function as if not known 15 is the engineer

like even if i wouldn't put my belief in this at 100% seems like only reasonable worldview to work from right now

though i think the cynicism from autere / narrow parking pretty fair based on past experience yeah

[shiki]

if i were engineer i wouldn't claim here. i doubt we'll reach end of phase without one of them walking back their claim. if one of them dies during the night w/o that happening we know they're both town cuz scum doesn't want to get rid of that kind of wifom.

ill wait for the dramatic reveal to decide if i want one of them froze

how did you decide

that you want enchant froze?

[shiki]

if i were engineer i wouldn't claim here. i doubt we'll reach end of phase without one of them walking back their claim. if one of them dies during the night w/o that happening we know they're both town cuz scum doesn't want to get rid of that kind of wifom.

ill wait for the dramatic reveal to decide if i want one of them froze

how did you decide

that you want enchant froze?

mmmmmmmmm

yeah this mostly right you say someone is going to walk it back both are quite possibly town et cetera

but then when enchant walks it back you vote and are now saying you're unlikely to vote elsewhere

so how did you get from a to b i guess i am asking

like was it a ploy to get a mafia to rescind their claim

and if so why do you think a mafia would do so at the time that enchant did?

and if not, i guess what is the reasoning otherwise,

[shiki]

i feel like i articulated my point pretty clearly

could you rearticulate it for me please,

[shiki]

i feel like i articulated my point pretty clearly

could you rearticulate it for me please,

like it's quite possible i am misunderstanding

but it feels to me like you were saying,

someone is going to walk back their claim, and at that point you will decide if you want one of them froze

so i guess i am wondering how you made that decision with such certainly at the point that enchant walked it back

like what about it makes you certain that it doesn't come from town

[shiki]

idk blurry eyed me feeling like this could be distancing if i squint and tilt my head

but it's almost certainly super unfair of me to be like, well sure narrow parking might be right about this could see mafia!enchant carrying through with this plan even though it was very very well executed if so, but if narrow parking is right then narrow parking might be mafia also!

like yeah super super unfair so i guess more just wondering the answers to my previous posts yeah

[shiki]

I had a thought.

Let's say Coroner dies unclaimed, and then Mafia fakeclaims Coroner later in the game, like Day 3 or something.

How does the mafia then justify surviving night?

There is no good excuse. It's a dead-end claim.

Guardian Angel is going to be protecting the Cop every night.

Any claimed town power role that survives the night is going to be executed the following day, unless the Cop clears them.

Therefore, I'm having trouble understanding roden/shiki/marashu's stance on the matter.

i mean, if you're saying we should always eliminate a claimed pr if they live the night, that is already a reason for the mafia to potentially kill someone else?

(even though there would quite possibly be confirmed towns for them to kill instead? (guard duty, green checks))

but anyway!

at this point i really can't tell if you're trying to dumbtell about like, not having thought about the implications of the setup and like possible mafia/traitor play or whatever

but i assume that if you're not the traitor whoever is is capable of thinking about their role and how to play it and such so it's not like i am 'volunteering info to the mafia'

so let's take your example right

it's day 3 the coroner is dead and the traitor claims coroner!

if it's 6 town, 3 mafia, 1 traitor 0-1 bug at this point, which is very possible, and if we don't have a claimed coroner before this point we have to play as though this is the situation anyway unless engineer gets a red check or something,

so day 3 traitor claims coroner, helps get a town eliminated,

then the traitor lives the night! so we follow you logic and eliminate the traitor right! because no way a claimed pr could live the night! do you know who just won the game? not. the. town.

but now let's backup and say the numbers were different on day 3,

let's say the engineer investigates the traitor-coroner night 3

engineer gets back a green check! so now it is day 4 and we are not eliminating the traitor by your logic right? because you said unless the engineer clears them, and oh no! the traitor is cleared

so we eliminate someone else right? if that person is town, again we have very likely lost the game, yeah?

a massclaim would help us to maximize our chances of eliminating a mafia each day, including today

(especially in a game in which 4 people just got prodded and 1 already needs to be replaced)

if we eliminate a mafia today/tomorrow we have basically won the game

there isn't all that much more to it

[shiki]

[shiki]

guess fakegod is just going to ignore 714

[shiki]

I think Coroner will be shot if he claims because out of the two claimed roles (Cop and Coroner), Guardian Angel will likely protect the Cop because it is a much stronger role. Therefore, Mafia will shoot the Coroner who will have no protection.

any attempt at optimizing via nash equilibrium going to find that this probably isn’t absolutely correct thought process for either side but discussing game theory likely to take us even further from the end goal here

[shiki]

also it kinda feels like freedom just agrees with whoever has just posted about mech stuff which is kinda ???

[shiki]

also it kinda feels like freedom just agrees with whoever has just posted about mech stuff which is kinda ???

also freedom aware the guardian angel can’t claim pointing it out at one point

and then saying the mafia are likely to try to kill the ga or engineer is …???

[shiki]

meh 2.5 days to deadline 4 likely replacements needed (well 1 definite 3 likely)

[shiki]

It seems I'll have to decide the freeze. Just give me a small bit of time...

i am fairly willing to sheep outside of a few slots

don’t really know how to sort in current state

[shiki]

It seems I'll have to decide the freeze. Just give me a small bit of time...

i am fairly willing to sheep outside of a few slots

don’t really know how to sort in current state

it’s like

we are heavily incentivized to find absolute most likely mafia today

but yeah dunno how

[shiki]

VOTE: marashu

I forget if I said this before but right now I have NK15, shiki, Roden, Enchant as town.

kinda think this is 4 towns tho

[shiki]

also obviously noone end day without claim et cetera can wait for replacements anyway

it’s not like we have no time but it’s low enough where i like

want to do ~something~

kinda wary about the pressure from fakegod but eh not enough so

[shiki]

also it kinda feels like freedom just agrees with whoever has just posted about mech stuff which is kinda ???

also freedom aware the guardian angel can’t claim pointing it out at one point

and then saying the mafia are likely to try to kill the ga or engineer is …???

Do you think that the Gnosia can't hunt for PRs?
If they figure out who the GA is, they'd NK them.

well yes the guardian angel would be top priority nightkill for the gnosia if they figured out

hmhmhm

[shiki]

mmmmmmmmm nevermind what i was saying there for now i think

[shiki]

who are the most suspicious to you (freedom) right now?

[shiki]

what if it’s me

Spoiler:

it’s not

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

around later

~12 hours

[shiki]

hm

two new players no new content

okay

New people please read the thread asap and produce a readslist.

guess i still don’t necessarily see the value in the whole readslist thing

but it’d be something at least and as good a starting point as any i suppose

[shiki]

Alright, Roden.

I trust you, and I will defer to your expertise.

I’m having a difficult time wrapping my brain around the mech. I agree with FakeGod but I think I trust Roden more.

[shiki]

Alright, Roden.

I trust you, and I will defer to your expertise.

I’m having a difficult time wrapping my brain around the mech. I agree with FakeGod but I think I trust Roden more.

Based on my understanding of the setup what FakeGod is saying makes the most sense to me but I townread Roden more than FakeGod, so I’ll trust him more on that.

I think that shiki is trying to tell you FG has deferred to Roden, and thus they have literally the same gameplan regarding mech.

this and also i was noting the similarities in phrasing mostly for myself

[shiki]

hm

two new players no new content

okay

What were you expecting?
When I replaced in, I didn't do that much more than them and I know that I'm Town.

i mean, maybe i am just frustrated,

but i expect players to at least engage with the game in some way

like being sortable is important yeah

[shiki]

hm

two new players no new content

okay

What were you expecting?
When I replaced in, I didn't do that much more than them and I know that I'm Town.

i mean, maybe i am just frustrated,

but i expect players to at least engage with the game in some way

like being sortable is important yeah

I think that we should give them a day to catch up because they'll probably not be able to engahe with the game if they have no idea where the game is going.

eh to me it is like

you have an alignment regardless of whether or not you’ve read the game and your interactions can easily show that and things that are more heavily constructed by nature such as readslists obscure that to some extent

[shiki]

but also, i do want everyone to read the game at some point so i am probably asking for too much

[shiki]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state. Doctor isn't claiming, replacements aren't saying much, and the leading wagons are kinda stalled.

I'd like if we could get some harder stances on Narrow vs Elmo. I still really prefer Elmo and idk why their play isn't being more scrutinized.

hm why narrow parking vs elmo?

like why marashu excluded from this?

do you think stalled marashu wagon means marashu town?

like i took my vote off because i wasn’t going to be around for a long time and i didn’t want marashu to be eliminated in the meantime especially since marashu stated they were putting a lot of work into upcoming post and i would feel bad if that work were to be wasted

but i could easily put it back

[shiki]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state. Doctor isn't claiming, replacements aren't saying much, and the leading wagons are kinda stalled.

I'd like if we could get some harder stances on Narrow vs Elmo. I still really prefer Elmo and idk why their play isn't being more scrutinized.

hm why narrow parking vs elmo?

like why marashu excluded from this?

do you think stalled marashu wagon means marashu town?

like i took my vote off because i wasn’t going to be around for a long time and i didn’t want marashu to be eliminated in the meantime especially since marashu stated they were putting a lot of work into upcoming post and i would feel bad if that work were to be wasted

but i could easily put it back

Can you make a readslist, too? Nothing too expansive because the deadline is looming, but...

not much has changed in my thoughts since 647 through 669 other than maybe more doubts with regards to fakegod and a slight reevaluation of scoliosis posts and maybe slightly less assuredness with regards to roden if you’re looking for reasonings but i can try to weigh if that’s what you’re asking

it’d probably look something like

{not known 15}
{enchant, jada, ranger(+bug/traitor to me tho), roden}
{freedom, autere, jessica rabbit, klick, elmo, herta, marashu, narrow parking, fakegod}

but idk how useful that is

i feel like i could just spend forever reordering the last tier ad infinitum and still have reasoning to change it

[shiki]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state. Doctor isn't claiming, replacements aren't saying much, and the leading wagons are kinda stalled.

I'd like if we could get some harder stances on Narrow vs Elmo. I still really prefer Elmo and idk why their play isn't being more scrutinized.

hm why narrow parking vs elmo?

like why marashu excluded from this?

do you think stalled marashu wagon means marashu town?

like i took my vote off because i wasn’t going to be around for a long time and i didn’t want marashu to be eliminated in the meantime especially since marashu stated they were putting a lot of work into upcoming post and i would feel bad if that work were to be wasted

but i could easily put it back

Mainly just because their wagon died. I think they're crew, partially just from reading their content but also because they got a lot of votes pretty quickly despite the game state showing no real bloodlust otherwise. They were more of a counter wagon than a main one anyway, and I think that showed with the wagon losing momentum pretty quickly.

Additionally, Mara putting in effort to claim and (hopefully) put out a reads list is more effort than anything Elmo's giving us.

wait

do you think any of those ‘a lot of votes pretty quickly’ on marashu came from non-towns?

(but true enough on the potential effort)

[shiki]

hmhmhm

kinda feel like enchant voted just because not known 15 and wagoning

but hm

eh evaluating enchant’s likelihood of being the ac follower when we don’t necessarily want to kill the ac follower feels kinda meh but i’ll think more about it

but it’s not like ac follower enchant would know if marashu was gnosia or not anyway

[shiki]

Btw, it should be evident by now that the Doctor not claiming is good for scum, otherwise they'd fake claim by now it if it would put them in a favorable position.

I agree.
It does give scum a good fakeclaim for later.
Though, could it be possible that the Doctor is inactive?

Is there an active/inactive mechanic?

I kinda feel like I am missing something major here.

pretty sure freedom meant inactive as in not currently posting

[shiki]

Writing setup here for easy access.

1. Engineer (Cop)
2. Guardian Angel (Doctor)
3. Doctor (Coroner)
4. Guard Duty (Mason)
5. Guard Duty (Mason)
6. Crewmate (VT)
7. Crewmate (VT)
8. Crewmate (VT)
9. Crewmate (VT)
10. Crewmate (VT)

11. Gnosia (Mafia Goon)
12. Gnosia (Mafia Goon)
13. Gnosia (Mafia Goon)
14. AC Follower (Mafia Traitor)

15. Bug (Anti-Social Survivor)

Engineer learns alignment of target. If target is Bug, he dies.
Guardian Angel can heal target.

Guardian Angel can't claim. Punishment is unknown.

Anyone else can claim GA. If you are pressured and you are GA: Say "I may, or may be not be GA.". Hm... Does it count as claim then? Need to clarify with mod.
Doctor. Can learn alignment of dead target.
Guard Duty Masons.

Only Guard Duty can claim as Guard Duty. Punishment is unknown.

Crewmate. Meat shields.
Gnosia. Mafia. We hate them.
AC Follower.

He doesh't know who is Gnosia.

Bug. He is Anti-Social Survivor, because he wins INSTEAD of faction which should had win.

Is there a neutral link for the setup?

I’d rather not rely on setup information from a player unless I have to especially since this page is talking claims.

Since no one had major objections I will assume this until I get caught up.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=90105

setup link

also sorry for obnoxious quotes - phone

[shiki]

If anyone can, please give a two second version of why each wagon exists. I don’t care if you support it or not, but that history would help.

marashu wagon exists because not known 15 (non-cced cop) wanted it and asked for a readslist - marashu has been working on this for two days now i guess?

the votes on narrow parking were largely because narrow parking’s reaction to the cop claims i believe

[shiki]

I guess since no one is on I will give a general thoughts dump.

With 4 group scum in the game (based on the setup above) the game becomes much easier to solve after 4 elims.

Assuming there is a game after 4 elims then one of the elims HAS to be in town or Bug. After 5 there must be at least one on town.

It can generally be assumed that a NK is on town (or Bug).

Using this work backwards to correct mistakes.

Based on the VC I linked I have a possible theory but want to see what other people do

UNVOTE:

3 groupscum - the traitor doesn’t actually count towards win condition i believe

hmm

[shiki]

If anyone can, please give a two second version of why each wagon exists. I don’t care if you support it or not, but that history would help.

marashu wagon exists because not known 15 (non-cced cop) wanted it and asked for a readslist - marashu has been working on this for two days now i guess?

the votes on narrow parking were largely because narrow parking’s reaction to the cop claims i believe

And why exactly did NK15 claim cop?

And why is the other wagon not on NK15?

I don’t see how a third wagon flows from that.

i am not sure i follow

why would there be a wagon on a cop who is not counterclaimed (anymore)

[shiki]

there was a wagon on not known 15 when there was a counterclaim

but then enchant dropped the counterclaim

so now there is only one cop claim

[shiki]

i really don’t think we have elims to give for things like ‘push your own elim’

like we are working with very very few misses

[shiki]

Not interested in MathBlade picking a fight with conftown.

VOTE: MathBlade

eh i don’t really think most of the mech stuff mathblade proposed actually makes sense

and like yeah can definitely see a potential angle to it

but also don’t really want to move wagon to a non-marashu player without marashu returning

[shiki]

Not interested in MathBlade picking a fight with conftown.

VOTE: MathBlade

eh i don’t really think most of the mech stuff mathblade proposed actually makes sense

and like yeah can definitely see a potential angle to it

but also don’t really want to move wagon to a non-marashu player without marashu returning

Mech stuff that doesn't make sense is very SI for math.

okay

VOTE: mathblade

guess i just feel like

like marashu not returning with readslist after stating progress on it

and also not just like, outright refusing your request

feels like not very town to me

[shiki]

You want to miselim me, fine. But at least do the service of looking at that game and understanding the concepts. We as said earlier have very few mistakes.

My gut says Jada scum and Shiki town unless NK15 scum. Then Jada town Shiki scum.

i will look at the game;

just feels like, like there isn’t really any reason for the actual engineer to not have simply counterclaimed not known 15 and enchant

right from their perspective that would have been two potential non-towns found

so it seems like we have to believe claim without a counterclaim even tho i have had plenty of doubts myself

and it feels like you weren’t accounting for the actual number of eliminations we have

and i’m town regardless of not known 15’s alignment but i do wonder why you think scum!me would be simply sheeping scum!not known 15 here

[shiki]

Working on this has made me remember why I don't do this anymore and how much I dislike doing it (and also how draining it is). My pace is about a paragraph an hour between re-reading, cross-referencing posts to see what they meant in context of when they were posted, and writing, and I'm not even done the ISO for the first player in my list. Ugh.

So I'm just gonna claim. VT, character is the unnamed Protag (specifically The Player). Ability is Self-Learning, which really just means I'm a universal character ability backup. It's for the first player who dies, so normally the first elim, but if we go to deadline with a draw, I'd inherit the skill of the first player to get NK'd instead. Since most abilities are likely at night anyway, I wouldn't really be adding any extra shots to the pool unless no elim D1 AND somehow no NK N1, so losing this N1 really isn't a big deal imo, since it just guarantees that whoever the first player to get eliminated is still gets their ability in the game. Also could be used to verify a character ability claim, but I think that boat has sailed. All in all as Day 1 miselims go mine's pretty safe.

I'll keep working on my detailed ISO list until bed, then when I get up and during my breaks at work tomorrow, assuming I'm still alive. I don't know how helpful this is going to be, though, but I'll keep working on it.

This is an open setup so that doesn’t exist? Lol

15 player game with 14 known characters - could very well exist my first assumption was also that the 15th player would be the player character

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

back to waiting for marashu it seems

[shiki]

Although if Jada, Fake God, and Shiki want to claim an ability I won’t say no.

sure

i can block someone’s character ability or give them another use at my discretion

[shiki]

https://gnosia.fandom.com/wiki/Gina

If you notice her target someone after they've claimed a role, made a report, or said something in general it may be a sign that they're an enemy role.

From my flavor

Based on this and Fake God’s claim I am expecting a doesn’t match on Fake God.

Then it’s up to everyone else to read me but I am transparent about why I did what I did.

And everyone has the relationships and if then else’s to proceed

i mean,

if you get a doesn't match then i could give you another shot and which you'd then use on someone who hasn't claimed their ability

and then that player could check the truthfulness of your ability claim

but this plan has the problem of not really being able to 100% count on that player's alignment either because not known 15 has already used ability

[shiki]

also, this may be a very stupid question,

but, uh, why did this plan require you to be 'sus'?

[shiki]

How is sus objectively defined?

This just basically says you rolecopped Fakegod. The only people who needed to do that are people afraid.

It’s I pick a post and Maria declares it so.

Things like votes obviously count.

Things like someone saying I am suspicious or sus count.

It’s why I was asking people explicitly to sus me.

And yes I in essence rolecopped Fake God.

oh hm, i think i understand maybe

[shiki]

https://gnosia.fandom.com/wiki/Gina

If you notice her target someone after they've claimed a role, made a report, or said something in general it may be a sign that they're an enemy role.

From my flavor

Based on this and Fake God’s claim I am expecting a doesn’t match on Fake God.

Then it’s up to everyone else to read me but I am transparent about why I did what I did.

And everyone has the relationships and if then else’s to proceed

i mean,

if you get a doesn't match then i could give you another shot and which you'd then use on someone who hasn't claimed their ability

and then that player could check the truthfulness of your ability claim

but this plan has the problem of not really being able to 100% count on that player's alignment either because not known 15 has already used ability

this also works if you get a match

though being truthful about ability also doesn't necessarily mean you are town, mm,

applying to both you and fakegod, ugh

[shiki]

Also, I am frankly appalled that your trigger condition is "being sus'd", if it really is real.

Not only it feels rather subjective, but also it forced this very awkward entrance from your replace in.

I do not approve.

had a fairly similar reaction to this it is like,

wouldn't simply being voted have been a better condition i don't follow why it would ever be subjective instead of objective

[shiki]

OH WAIT!!!!

there isn't always a vote phase during the day so it can't be that

[shiki]

Things like votes obviously count.

which then maybe makes me

hmm

about this bit

though could have asked for clarification et cetera i guess

[shiki]

less than 24 hours

waiting on mathblade ability result and potentially marashu

if we aren’t going to eliminate marashu we need to be working towards other options nowish

also would like thoughts on potential uses of my ability with known information

from not known 15 and enchant and anyone else who wants to contribute

[shiki]

enchant dropped the claim

[shiki]

how would the cop be removed by this play when there is a guardian angel?

[shiki]

enchant dropped the claim

Why did they even claim it in the first place?

to stop someone else from counterclaiming was the main explanation given - which makes sense i think

[shiki]

Actually wait

It doesn’t say anything about traitor just gnosia

traitor is a human not a gnosia

but i do not know the wording, so!

[shiki]

Going to have to resort. I don’t see that being a scum ability.

we don’t actually know if the abilities are tied to alignment at all or simply to the characters - i would assume solely to the characters but dunno

[shiki]

also please come back professor i did not mean to discourage you from posting by being overeager to get you to a more current state of the game due to time constraints

pedit: nevermind lol

[shiki]

enchant dropped the claim

Why did they even claim it in the first place?

to stop someone else from counterclaiming was the main explanation given - which makes sense i think

Shouldn’t it also be used as a way to get reactions and see how people react since if Enchant is town, mafia would know the fake claim can only be done by the Traitor or Bug.

i mean, the rest of us can use it that way even if that was not the main intention of enchant, and this is actually a pretty good point and i will go back to look for this when i get a chance

idk maybe i am being too lenient to enchant because i can also see potential scum intention but like

i think enchant thinks if the game in like, a very mechanics based sense rather than reads so i don’t really think it’d be out of character for enchant to prioritize lack of counterclaim vs making any reads out of it

[shiki]

If you are not Guard Duty, claiming it leads to modkill+lose+ban on internet+years of torture

Only two of these are truth tbh

I’m not going to help NK15 out a mason. That’s seriously antitown.

Why? NK15’s reads are wrong if you’re a mason.
Fixing them is the first step

I think they are bringing up mason like “oh don’t keep voting players, you might out the mason.”

Which makes no fucking sense on why they say that AS SOON as they get voted by the confirmed town.


So don’t worry Bunny, NK15 won’t vote a mason, you’re a wolf and he can stay on you!

okay but mason can’t actually be claimed by a non-mason and there is other role that can’t be claimed by anyone so you saying a claim related defensive reaction is definitely mafia is kinda ???

[shiki]

I CC.

I am real Coroner.

So Enchant claims troll.

Herta is the real coroner and Enchant is the “coroner”. Got it.

You both can be coroner.

i mean

should probably give more time for players to see though limited resource

but timing definitely interesting (re: new wagon) if herta is counterclaimed and such

actually pretty confused as to why herta would have waited this long anyway if herta willing to claim today

[shiki]

NK15 already wants to drive a mislim on one town and I’m not going to help scum any further by forcing a mason claim. I’m not going to gamethrow by telling scum who to kill. Seriously fuck that.

No one asks mason to claim. Expect for MathBlade, but who cares about him.

NK15 already wants to drive a mislim on one town and I’m not going to help scum any further by forcing a mason claim. I’m not going to gamethrow by telling scum who to kill. Seriously fuck that.

No one asks mason to claim. Expect for MathBlade,

but who cares about him

.

NK15 is trying to out a mason. I don’t want mason to out. Why tell scum who to kill tonight?

Except that is literally a good thing in flipless!

If Masons claim before dying then we know they shot town. They weren’t aiming for bug.

Flipless has very limited information.

It’s all about information control.

Gnosia can't kill Bug.
Gnosia can kill

AC Follower but no one care about him

.

Is this a bad theory or just an accidental posting of words nearby?

Math would have left several look at me crumbs if traitor. He's just being antitown.

Not sure what you’re getting at here.

The roles are all weirdly named and got some backwards.

I am really not being anti town.

Assume cop coroner and masons all claim. That’s four people.
Versus the three group scum.

Traitor Bug and everyone else then is sorted

Scum get forced to use kills on conf town

My post had zero to deal with claim shit. I'll let conftown sort that. I just was looking at the bolded. Look again.

if your point is that enchant used a masculine pronoun in the unknown, i believe that is a function of enchant’s first language and not uncommon for enchant, as can be seen in the signup thread as well

if your point is that we should care about the traitor nah i think enchant is correct should ignore traitor if we are able to determine who

[shiki]

NK15 already wants to drive a mislim on one town and I’m not going to help scum any further by forcing a mason claim. I’m not going to gamethrow by telling scum who to kill. Seriously fuck that.

No one asks mason to claim. Expect for MathBlade, but who cares about him.

NK15 already wants to drive a mislim on one town and I’m not going to help scum any further by forcing a mason claim. I’m not going to gamethrow by telling scum who to kill. Seriously fuck that.

No one asks mason to claim. Expect for MathBlade,

but who cares about him

.

NK15 is trying to out a mason. I don’t want mason to out. Why tell scum who to kill tonight?

Except that is literally a good thing in flipless!

If Masons claim before dying then we know they shot town. They weren’t aiming for bug.

Flipless has very limited information.

It’s all about information control.

Gnosia can't kill Bug.
Gnosia can kill

AC Follower but no one care about him

.

Is this a bad theory or just an accidental posting of words nearby?

Math would have left several look at me crumbs if traitor. He's just being antitown.

Not sure what you’re getting at here.

The roles are all weirdly named and got some backwards.

I am really not being anti town.

Assume cop coroner and masons all claim. That’s four people.
Versus the three group scum.

Traitor Bug and everyone else then is sorted

Scum get forced to use kills on conf town

My post had zero to deal with claim shit. I'll let conftown sort that. I just was looking at the bolded. Look again.

if your point is that enchant used a masculine pronoun in the unknown, i believe that is a function of enchant’s first language and not uncommon for enchant, as can be seen in the signup thread as well

if your point is that we should care about the traitor nah i think enchant is correct should ignore traitor if we are able to determine who

like town doesn’t care if traitor dies mafia doesn’t care if traitor dies i guess if it’s not the pronoun thing i don’t understand your point

[shiki]

NK15 already wants to drive a mislim on one town and I’m not going to help scum any further by forcing a mason claim. I’m not going to gamethrow by telling scum who to kill. Seriously fuck that.

No one asks mason to claim. Expect for MathBlade, but who cares about him.

NK15 already wants to drive a mislim on one town and I’m not going to help scum any further by forcing a mason claim. I’m not going to gamethrow by telling scum who to kill. Seriously fuck that.

No one asks mason to claim. Expect for MathBlade, but who cares about him.

NK15 is trying to out a mason. I don’t want mason to out. Why tell scum who to kill tonight?

Except that is literally a good thing in flipless!

If Masons claim before dying then we know they shot town. They weren’t aiming for bug.

Flipless has very limited information.

It’s all about information control.

Gnosia can't kill Bug.
Gnosia can kill AC Follower but no one care about him.

Look at the no one cares language Enchant...

hm

do you think enchant is traitor who thinks mathblade is gnosia? or do you think enchant is gnosia who thinks mathblade is traitor? and is trying to signal to mathblade by repeated phrasing?

pedit: sorry slow i see this is being explained above

[shiki]

this game has become very difficult for me to play

will try again in an hour or two

can’t tell if the scums are trying to cause a no elim

[shiki]

this game has become very difficult for me to play

will try again in an hour or two

can’t tell if the scums are trying to cause a no elim

Where has anyone been pushing no elim?
Who do you think is a wolf that is trying to push that?

not pushing for a no elim but rather trying to cause us to be unable to reach a majority by absence or spreading and moving the votes around

[shiki]

I voted as requested. I think poorly of NK15's antics and care less of Jessica's posts, as it's become clear that she is not Guard Duty.

Rest of you should do the same and end the day.

I request you vote Elmo and we cop Jessica. Jessica is an asset. An empty slot makes it harder to lim scum.

No.
See Jessica is likely Traitor then Group wolf tbh.
I think NK15 should cop me or you tbh.

Right, the sudden jump from "don't worry about a traitor" to we lim Jessica because she's the traitor is obvious.

I don't care if I get copped but I'd rather save the life of obvious town.

Coroner will confirm Jessica's town tmo if you manage to put her through.

coroner only finds human/gnosia i believe

and the traitor returns as human

so if jessica rabbit is traitor coroner result would be the same as town

though i do not really understand why professor thinks jessica rabbit is more likely traitor than gnosia

[shiki]

this game has become very difficult for me to play

will try again in an hour or two

can’t tell if the scums are trying to cause a no elim

Where has anyone been pushing no elim?
Who do you think is a wolf that is trying to push that?

not pushing for a no elim but rather trying to cause us to be unable to reach a majority by absence or spreading and moving the votes around

Who do you think is doing that?

could be the counterwagon type votes to your wagon (on elmo i believe)

could be the absent players

there are likely other options as well - i haven’t read the last however many pages particularly closely

just a feeling i got from the state of the game

[shiki]

i think i would much rather go back to professor than vote elmo right now and that doesn’t really feel greatly desirable either

[shiki]

VOTE: jessica rabbit

[shiki]

what

[shiki]

we can’t really go to elmo because unable to claim it’s not complicated

[shiki]

we have 5 hours and elmo is absent - what if elmo is actually the coroner? what if elmo is a mason? et cetera

why you opposed to jessica rabbit elimination now?

[shiki]

like we should have all just mass claimed 6 days ago like i suggested multiple times but at this point randomly flailing around seems incorrect to me

[shiki]

like to me it’s between you and jessica rabbit at this point, so

[shiki]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state. Doctor isn't claiming, replacements aren't saying much, and the leading wagons are kinda stalled.

I'd like if we could get some harder stances on Narrow vs Elmo. I still really prefer Elmo and idk why their play isn't being more scrutinized.

hm why narrow parking vs elmo?

like why marashu excluded from this?

do you think stalled marashu wagon means marashu town?

like i took my vote off because i wasn’t going to be around for a long time and i didn’t want marashu to be eliminated in the meantime especially since marashu stated they were putting a lot of work into upcoming post and i would feel bad if that work were to be wasted

but i could easily put it back

Can you make a readslist, too? Nothing too expansive because the deadline is looming, but...

not much has changed in my thoughts since 647 through 669 other than maybe more doubts with regards to fakegod and a slight reevaluation of scoliosis posts and maybe slightly less assuredness with regards to roden if you’re looking for reasonings but i can try to weigh if that’s what you’re asking

it’d probably look something like

{not known 15}
{enchant, jada, ranger(+bug/traitor to me tho), roden}
{freedom, autere, jessica rabbit, klick, elmo, herta, marashu, narrow parking, fakegod}

but idk how useful that is

i feel like i could just spend forever reordering the last tier ad infinitum and still have reasoning to change it

This is the only readslist I could find in your ISO and Elmo is at the bottom so what changed?

?????????

i literally talked about all of the slots for like 20 consecutive posts so you saying this is the only readslist in my iso is ????????

but anyway i am not townreading elmo??? just opposed to blind elimination

[shiki]

we have 5 hours and elmo is absent - what if elmo is actually the coroner? what if elmo is a mason? et cetera

why you opposed to jessica rabbit elimination now?

You’re actually trying to say Elmo could come in and CC coroner? Lol.
Yeah your reaction to the Elmo wagon is really bad here.

i mean, other than herta claiming (while lots of players absent)

why are you sure there wouldn’t be a counterclaim?

like waiting until 12 hours to deadline with lots of players missing is a good time to fake claim, no?

[shiki]

because elmo might be? like if you’re a mason and sure elmo isn’t then just say so and i’ll think about game with new information but otherwise i don’t understand why blind elimination is good here

[shiki]

Like you had no fucking problem when NK15 was pushing votes.
Where both Jessica AND FakeGod mentioned they didn’t want NK15 to start voting a mason.


Where were you in that involvement? No where.
But your here in this one for some strange reason eh?

? i would have probably preferred to stay on you, shrug, and was fine doing so

[shiki]

what? why do you think i said i would prefer not to go back to you

and why do you think i voted jessica rabbit over you

if not for reevaluation because your replace in

it literally feels like you want me to be scum here for some reason and i don’t know what to make of that

[shiki]

like yes if i were not known i would have preferred just keeping the wagon where it was but since we got more info it is what it is

[shiki]

You know it recently occurred to me that Doctor is a thing here and they usually don’t wanna claim unless they have to.

if you mean the guardian angel they literally can’t claim which was part of my earlier objection

if you mean doctor as flavour that’s the coroner, herta, who already claimed

[shiki]

(unless herta is fake claiming which, well, we will see)

[shiki]

Reminder:

1. The Guardian Angel is not allowed to claim.
   Only the people on Guard Duty can claim Guard Duty.
   The Bug cannot be killed by Gnosia, however they will die if investigated by the Engineer.
   Gnosia do not have day talk.
   All character abilities are one-shot unless stated otherwise.

All Role PMs are out! Waiting for 14/15 to confirm.

(13/15)

i literally said that to you…
Oh wait.
The Doctor can’t claim

Holy Shit, what if Jessica is Doctor.

I suppose that could explain their over reaction.

[shiki]

Reminder:

1. The Guardian Angel is not allowed to claim.
   Only the people on Guard Duty can claim Guard Duty.
   The Bug cannot be killed by Gnosia, however they will die if investigated by the Engineer.
   Gnosia do not have day talk.
   All character abilities are one-shot unless stated otherwise.

All Role PMs are out! Waiting for 14/15 to confirm.

(13/15)

Oh wait.
The Doctor can’t claim

Holy Shit, what if Jessica is Doctor.

I suppose that could explain their over reaction.

i literally said that to you…

[shiki]

If you are not Guard Duty, claiming it leads to modkill+lose+ban on internet+years of torture

Only two of these are truth tbh

I’m not going to help NK15 out a mason. That’s seriously antitown.

Why? NK15’s reads are wrong if you’re a mason.
Fixing them is the first step

I think they are bringing up mason like “oh don’t keep voting players, you might out the mason.”

Which makes no fucking sense on why they say that AS SOON as they get voted by the confirmed town.


So don’t worry Bunny, NK15 won’t vote a mason, you’re a wolf and he can stay on you!

okay but mason can’t actually be claimed by a non-mason and there is other role that can’t be claimed by anyone so you saying a claim related defensive reaction is definitely mafia is kinda ???

here^^^

[shiki]

forever ago

[shiki]

i do not think it is super likely that jessica rabbit is guardian angel based on play but it was odd to me that you were not considering it

[shiki]

i do not think jessica is ga?

could you please just read my posts and if you do not understand ask me questions

[shiki]

like i get that i am not easy to follow sometimes and i do not mind rephrasing et cetera but please at least read the posts

[shiki]

well mason definitely because jessica rabbit had every opportunity to claim mason under heavy suspicion and did not and elmo has not been present for approximately forever

guardian angel is more subjective but i do not feel as though jessica rabbit’s reaction to wagon was coming from a place of ‘i cannot claim’

though like i said i did not read some of that section particularly closely - i struggle massively when the game no longer feels like a game and when players are yelling at eachother in such a way and such i just cannot do it sorry

pedit: @professor - response to last post

[shiki]

Shiki, who do you want besides Jessica?

professordrapion would probably be my second choice here but i do not think it would be reasonable to try to organize votes there

like in current state i think it has to be elmo or jessica rabbit and jessica rabbit seems like the better elimination to me right now

[shiki]

uh, we have like one hour so if noone currently voting elmo or neither of the current wagons is present and willing to vote jessica rabbit in the very near future then i have to hope someones else on jessica rabbit with me is around to move (even though there is a chance this is what mafia is counting on)

so if someone could hammer that'd be great or at least if everyone around could do 'i am here' post that so we can figure out please do

[shiki]

Deadline is in (expired on 2022-12-18 23:03:13)

[shiki]

i suppose it depends upon the leap of faith but i am often enough up for these sometimes you just hafta believe

[shiki]

how do i accept this?

also were you aware of this:

viewtopic.php?p=11977139#p11977139

(it me)

when you asked that?

[shiki]

Is Jessica hammered?

yes i believe so

[shiki]

VC 1.7

Jessica Rabbit (6): Not Known 15, FakeGod, Herta, MathBlade, Enchant, shiki
Elmo TeH AzN (5): Jada, Ranger, ProfessorDrapion, Jessica Rabbit, Roden
Enchant (1): narrow parking
Not Known 15 (1): beeboy

Not voting (2): Elmo TeH AzN, Freedom

Deadline is in (expired on 2022-12-18 23:03:13)

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 to fade away

+narrow parking + roden

unless i am missing something someones else check please just to make sure

[shiki]

Block argument

What in the god almighty is this?

my first assumption is that that is a mafia claim

[shiki]

maybe(?) roleblocking not known 15 but that seems far too powerful

seems more likely something else

but i do not think a town that has been hammered posts that without explanation

[shiki]

Obviously it's a scum claim, but it also looks like some kind of power usage.

Maybe it negates NK's vote or something. I'd feel safer if we had couple of extra votes on her just in case.

oh! yes please someone do

[shiki]

Obviously it's a scum claim, but it also looks like some kind of power usage.

Maybe it negates NK's vote or something. I'd feel safer if we had couple of extra votes on her just in case.

oh! yes please someone do

though there aren't normally votes so that'd be weird but nonetheless it doesn't hurt