Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[mastina]

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi, I am town.

[mastina]

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi, I am town.

(Okay but for real, I intend to be a BEACON this game, REVEALING the TRUE COLORS of all.)

[mastina]

UWU

VOTE: furtiveglance
Obviously Lunar is the superior cult, if we were to be in one

Town.

I am Mafia Goon.

Not saying I'm Cult, but if I was I'd be Solar.

Hiiiiii

VOTE: Enchant
Gottem boys and girls let's go.

Town?

who should we elim?

Scum?

[mastina]

UWU

VOTE: furtiveglance
Obviously Lunar is the superior cult, if we were to be in one

Town.

I am Mafia Goon.

Not saying I'm Cult, but if I was I'd be Solar.

Hiiiiii

VOTE: Enchant
Gottem boys and girls let's go.

Town?

who should we elim?

Scum?

(More, including readslist, when home from work.)

[mastina]

Yoink!

VOTE: Scarecrow
-Measles

I am Talia. Believe it or not, it's true. As true as the fact that Aegon the Conqueror had two wives.

Town.

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi, I am town.

I laughed.
~Titus

I knew you'd appreciate it. <3
(Also town.)

Anyways missed you, my friends. long time no see <3 been a while since I played a game here

I just wish it were with you as town. </3

VOTE: enchant

Scum.

[mastina]

I don't plan on learning the mechanics are they difficult

Town.

Speaking for myself: the mechanical speculation and her enthusiasm seemed towny.
I guess you could argue that's a level 0 take, but whatever.
-Aisa

Scum?

[mastina]

VOTE: professotic
I can't really quantify it, but it feels like they're playing looking for someone to kill rather than looking for scum. Just the way they're engaging feels... Wrong.

I mean, you right!

VOTE: professotic

{Past Present Future} (most locktown of locktown)
{Save the Dragons, Yume} (basically most, but need just a

bit

more from both to be sure)
{Radical Rat, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (may be one lower)}
{Maid Cafe, MMR}

TOWNLEAN:
{furtiveglance}
{Enchant}
{T-Bone}


{Child of Fairies}
{Radja}


{Frozen Angel}
{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Korina}
{professotic}

(Yes I am aware that's too few scum since the approximate amount should be 6, so I'm townreading slots I shouldn't be, but for

now

, this'll do.)

[mastina]

Can you explain how the two of these are in your almost lock-town slots when their game hasn't even start yet?

Because I said so.

[mastina]

mastina, can you explain your read on Child of Fairies?

That's literally my null tier. I don't have a read there.

[mastina]

I realize I neglected this game tonight but I meant to get around to it, promise.

I can't tonight, I'm tired, hungry, need to take meds, ran out of fluids, am running on fumes, etc. So, apologies; will be here tomorrow. (At least I hope.)

Also need to make sure I don't miss doctor appointment and such so like.

I thought I had the time to play tonight, I did not actually, sorry, but will make up for it tomorrow (at least I hope).

{Past Present Future} (most locktown of locktown)
{Save the Dragons, Yume} (basically most, but need just a

bit

more from both to be sure)
{Radical Rat, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (may be one lower)}
{Maid Cafe, MMR}

TOWNLEAN:
{furtiveglance}
{Enchant}
{T-Bone}


{Child of Fairies}
{Radja}


{Frozen Angel}
{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Korina}
{professotic}

(Yes I am aware that's too few scum since the approximate amount should be 6, so I'm townreading slots I shouldn't be, but for

now

, this'll do.)

I will say that I don't think much will change from this list but I owe explanations of it and will obviously still need to refine it.

[mastina]

Mastina, where's the Korina read coming from? They've done literally nothing and are getting replaced, so I don't see how they can be anything but null

VOTE: enchant
Will read later
Also

@mod - reoccurring v/la monday/tuesday

That ain't nothing to me.

That's a scum entrance.

@Mastina in your own words, why do you find us wolfy?

Because tictac is playing to his multiball-scum-meta.

[mastina]

You literally just shaded me again and are saying you are not shading me in the same breath

StD moves to my highest tier of locktown, and FA moves down to more scum (with an asterisk admittedly).

[mastina]

[...]
(Yes I am aware that's too few scum since the approximate amount should be 6, so I'm townreading slots I shouldn't be, but for now, this'll do.)

What makes you think 6 is the approximate amount?
-Aisa

Basic math.
There's 17 players in the game.

If there's 4 scum per faction for 8 total, that's 8 scum to 9 town. Town would legitimately only have a one-player lead over the scum.

If there's 2 scum per faction for 4 total, that's a ridiculously small scumteam for both. I suppose two per team is possible if they DO have a recruitment mechanic, but if the game lacks a recruitment mechanic or has it be incredibly gated, then the approximate amount should be three per faction.

[mastina]

Mastina is a slot I'd like to sort later. I think this is just what she does and if it's entirely random she's scum but if it makes some sense she's probably town. I am leaning toward the latter.

Oi it's never random regardless of my alignment.

My reads are ENLIGHTENED by my INSIGHT into others. I can stare into people's SOULS.

[mastina]

What defines "worth it" here? Because it sure sounds like either mastina's your buddy, or you're trying to make us think she is.
VOTE: T-Bone

Yo, I think you're town but this is a very very very bad take.

Radja is probably scum and it is worth it!
VOTE: Radja

I buy this.

Hmm, I think I disagree with most of these reads.

What a shame, that means instead of being accurate you're going to be inaccurate because most of my reads are going to be right! I can see into the hearts of others and their inner darkness/light.

[mastina]

mastina read on us does strike me as unplausible, since she just saw me as scum twice

It is specifically because I have seen you as scum twice that I know this is your multiball scum meta.

Maybe try talking to the great professor?

Well you, I don't know; your posts don't give me an alignment without that knowledge. So with you as null and tictac as clearly scum...

[mastina]

I do agree with you that mastina's read on STD is a bit off. I don't feel like his content at the time when she made the read, was exactly that Towny.
UNVOTE: FA for now.

That's the thing tho.

STD's town/scum meta are night/day different. And this game STD is a beacon of light. This is his towngame through and through. He's literally radiating his alignment, a shining beacon of towniness. He is town, 100%. Like, genuinely top-tier townread, town. He cannot be scum here.

Frozen Angel also has a town/scum meta that are night/day different. The asterisk to my read on FA here is that I don't know which is which.

I KNOW that FA has a night/day difference in her town meta and her scum meta.
I'm PRETTY sure that this is the night half, that this is the scum half, that this is FA as scum. But the asterisk on my read is that I might be remembering it backwards. I'm PRETTY sure I'm getting it right that this is the scum half tho.

[mastina]

VOTE: professotic

Probably my best scumread so far. Not the strongest, but I'm fairly confident there's enough odd stuff going on with this slot.

I've played with tictac briefly. Never played with ProfessorDrapion, but witnessed him play in Mini Normal 2280, which I hosted. They don't sign their posts, but from what I've read, I would estimate like 70-80% of content comes from tictac and only 20-30% comes from ProfessorDrapion. And this is the first thing that is off about this slot. In my experience, tictac has been less active than he is in his past games and ProfessorDrapion has been one of the most active in Mini Normal 2280. Even if his posts didn't give too much content, he was always kinda there. This activity pattern makes me think that they might have decided to let tictac lead the way and ProfessorDrapion take a step back.

I've had a bad vibe from

Enchant

's entrance post too. Obviously I know it was RVS, yadda yadda etc. But still, at the time

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

made 26, I thought this is a valid early read, and

professotic

(most likely the tictac head) coming after

Scarecrow

posting this was unwarranted (60). Also, the vote itself (31), RVS or not, came chronologically before the justification for it (60). None of these two things would bother me so much individually, but in combination they are giving me en err vibe. So that's the second thing.

I don't buy the

furtiveglance

townread at all. In my experience, he's been quite active and actively scumhunting in his past games, and I get the feeling that he doesn't care that much about this game at all. This doesn't really warrant townreading him, especially with such confidence. That's the third thing.

~Greeting

This is a very good post, and a very good read.
It definitely makes them not scum with professotic.

I don't think it makes them town, mind you.
But it's a VERY good post. A damn good one.

[mastina]

the upside is i don't know if scum would make a post that disgusting so maybe i'm coming around to you being town

Multiball, so: yes.

[mastina]

I am Talia. Believe it or not, it's true. As true as the fact that Aegon the Conqueror had two wives.

Yo

VOTE: professotic

@Mastina, are you still tr this?

Not nearly as strongly as I'd prefer, but loosely, yes.

[mastina]

Can you elaborate on this? I have almost no experience playing multiball and how do you distinguish multiball meta from singleball meta?

Well basically, scum can scumhunt in multiball.

Some towntells are still towntells;
Some scumtells are still scumtells;

Some tells are exclusive to multiball by being things that are scum-in-multiball-indicative.

I have a doctor's appointment so I can't really elaborate more right now, but that's the basic breakdown;

tictac is showing his multiball scumtells.

[mastina]

@Mastina what exactly is tictac’s multiball scum meta? Can you link some games for me?

Multiball ain't exactly common enough to have a boatload of games for a player as scum.

But I can maybe do the links later.

[mastina]

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{Yume, Radical Rat, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow}
{Maid Cafe, MMR}

TOWNLEAN:
{furtiveglance}
{Enchant}
{T-Bone}


{Child of Fairies}
{Radja}


{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Korina}

{Frozen Angel}

{professotic}

[mastina]

I swear that understanding mastina posts and reads was not this hard few years ago.

I mean, to be fair: I have internalized my process more, where I do a lot of things automatically that I used to write out manually.

Writing them out manually makes it much easier for others to understand, but I just don't have the time to do it most of the time which is why I learned to internalize it in the first place.

Also, I find that I have more value to the town by just acting like a bit of a shotgun flamethrower: pushing with a strong punch, to help lay down rapid-fire content for the rest of the town to react to and then interact with.

There are always players who end up ignoring my posts, but players reacting to my posts are not ignored by the players ignoring my posts, so there's always players who get extra content from me being in the game. So I'm not really concerned about accuracy. I try to be accurate, but I put a lot less work into being accurate.

I like to be lazy with my reads until I don't need to be lazy with them. Which means that I push them strongly, and then the town is usually left with a gamestate more suited for finding scum. It works well. I obviously would prefer to be accurate, and I think that I am more accurate than not. I legit think my reads are more right than wrong right now. But push come to shove, my reads don't

need

to be accurate for me to still generate value for the town--and thus, I don't really have as much incentive as I used to, to do more in-depth posts that show the nuances.

That said, often, I don't need to. When I'm right, usually others can see where I'm coming from. When I'm wrong, others have reasons that are usually harder to overcome because they are right and I am wrong. My rightness is easier to follow; my wrongness is harder to follow.

[mastina]

she specifically said she has no idea what she is doing with her meta read on me

Not true!

I know exactly what I am doing with you.

Your play is night and day different between your scumgames and towngames--that's a fact. Your townplay is nothing like your scumplay; your scumplay is nothing like your townplay. That is true.

These metas are very distinct and very obvious and very noticeable. That is true.

You are 100% playing to one of the two metas. You are absolutely in one of those two metas, not blurring it, not blending it, not hiding it, fitting that meta to a T. That is true.

All of this means I know exactly what I'm doing with my meta on you; I know all of the above is true.

The one and only area I falter in is knowing which meta is which.

You are either 100% town, or 100% scum, with absolutely no in-between. There's no room where your content is 75% towngame with 25% being scum, or 75% scumgame with 25% town. It is 100% fully and entirely in the established meta for the alignment you are. If you are scum then you are playing your scum meta to a T; if you are town, then you are playing your town meta to a T. Most players as town never have 100% of their towngame, and most players as scum never have 100% of your scumgame.

But you, whatever your alignment is, do have that 100%.

The one question is which alignment is which.

And I'm pretty sure this is the scumgame, from my memory.

That ain't me not knowing what I'm talking about. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about and it is guaranteed to be true. You're playing to an established meta, with zero divergence from said meta whatsoever. And the meta you are playing I

think

is the scum one.

[mastina]

VOTE: Past Present Future
This slot has gotten worse.

Good luck with that.

[mastina]

I hope you don't mind but could you confirm if FA likes to distance as scum?

That I don't remember. I think she might, but this ain't the 100%, this is more like a 60%.

That said, multiball, so while we can safely say distancing is plausible, actual

bussing

is not.

[mastina]

VOTE: Scarecrow

VOTE: mastina

FoS on Titus. Don’t see how she’s getting her reads.

FoS on StD

Oh yeah MathBlade's lockscum here; he's literally voting/pushing the four towniest* slots in the game.

(*Admittedly one of them, me, requires knowledge of my alignment. I've not towned it up yet. But MathBlade is literally FoSing/voting three of the towniest slots in the game, with me as a fourth--I get that MathBlade can have bad towngames, but this is not an entrance MathBlade ever has as town.

There's a lot more, but tbh I wasn't planning on posting here today at all. In fact I explicitly was trying to take today as a rest day. But I couldn't let this go unsaid; MathBlade is 200% scum here. The above is a big reason but there's more reasons beyond that; I can explain those reasons when I actually feel like posting.)

[mastina]

Ehhh fuck it. I'll be around. I'm angry at things in real life but I need

somewhere

to vent--may as well be a maf game, 'cause I ain't gonna get worse from it; the only way to go is up.

I'm sorry for this. I think prof is town and there are some very bad votes on them.
I want to vote Dingle for their bandwagoning crimes
VOTE: Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

Btw having seen furtive effectively be scum in multiball (furtive was an SK), I can say that this is a very, very, very different look for him this game. Obviously, doesn't clear him since SKs have no scumbuddies, but I would expect if furtive were scum this game for there to be a similarity between his play that game and his play this game as still hunting for scum while playing for the longterm endgoal of endgaming town and scum alike.

That he's radically different this game tells me he's probably town.

This is a town take

And Klick is town for the reads synergy.
Yes, multiball, but last time I said "Klick I want to call town but multiball", he was town so fuck it, committing to it: town.

I've been keeping up on my phone, but the amount of players and hydra heads in this game make it hard for me to get much reads really.

This has a fairly good chance of being scum.

I have never seen

FA

as scum. As town she's normally rather helpful and cooperative, and I believe that is how she's been so far.

This is an incredibly shallow take and I feel like you know it is.

VOTE: mastina
u r doing ur dead-thread thing using technically true statements to push nonsense.

The one and only area I falter in is knowing which meta is which.

i think this was the only lie in the post.

This is an absolutely egregious--tictac doesn't believe this and you

know

he doesn't believe it. It's the type of point that comes from having predetermined a read to make and then create reasons for it.

It's faked as hell. It's not genuine in any way shape or form. It's flat. It lack conviction. You can tell he doesn't believe it--and for good reason. (I don't think I need to explain why tictac's point is ridiculous, but if you

really

want to, it's easy enough to do; no actual town player would seriously raise the point because of just how silly it is.)

[mastina]

Lol really?
Like this is ridiculous.

Btw this is a sentence that never comes from MathBlade as town.

Like.

If you know MathBlade as a player.

You KNOW that MathBlade doesn't think this way as town in a way to generate a "lol really? This is ridiculous".

If I had the time/motivation I guarantee you I could deep dive this to show MathBlade doesn't do that post as town. MathBlade as town has an entirely different way of expressing his thoughts. He doesn't think this way as town. When he feels like he is being ignored, when he feels like he is being disrespected, when he feels like he is dealing with a town in the wrong, he can post something like "this is ridiculous". Where there's a frustration in him.

But when he has a scumread as town, he doesn't feel the need to go "lol really". Instead, he just pushes them. He sees them as scum, he pushes them as scum. He doesn't care what the player in question says.

Yet here, he did. The "lol really, this is ridiculous" spews him as scum, because MathBlade as scum

does

respond to the pressure. MathBlade as scum knows that scumreads on him are legitimate. He can believe they come from scum in multiball, sure--but he knows that the suspicion on him is a threat.

I can summarize it this way.
MathBlade as town has conviction--with one player he is allegedly scumreading displaying a scumread on him, he isn't fazed by that.

MathBlade as scum sees threats--with a player scumreading him, he needs to work on neutralizing the threat.

The language used betrays this. He's not seeing me as scum that he needs to push;
He sees me as a threat that he needs to remove.

Thus.
Scum.

[mastina]

I really don’t understand what Mastina is talking about with this 100% thing wrt to FA. In Masochist Mafia, I wrongly lockscummed her slot because she had posted very similarly as scum in a previous game, so I don’t agree that FA has a 100% anything meta.

Respectfully, you're not me.

There's a difference between superficial similarities, and crucial similarities. FA has a way of displaying her alignment instantly as both alignments. You just need to know which is which.

And I'm pretty sure that this is FA's scum half.

If I had to guess at scumteams, my current guess would be {FA, professotic, MathBlade} | {Bunnyonce, Radja?, ???}.
But obviously not final.

[mastina]

Mathblade replaces Korina.

Confirming my replace in. I am working so haven’t read.
Anywhere I should read on my break?

Btw to give an idea of how scum MathBlade is, even this first post is minor scum. It's admittedly only like 2%, 52-48, but ever so

slightly

, this is a scum entrance from MathBlade.

[mastina]

I can’t but I don’t think anything is a wagon until it hits 3 people. Why are you focused on it?

This is another scum post from MathBlade--it's very much an idle thought, but one that is scum because of more or less, it does nothing and has no followthrough. MathBlade's town idle thoughts do things and/or have followthrough. This idle thought was self-evidently a pointless one, that couldn't lead to anything.

It's a slip of mindset.

[mastina]

Many I want to see if you think a) scum are in control or b) town are

This is also crucial.
This post is accurate to MathBlade's mindset. MathBlade's post here is true regardless of his alignment.

But the thing about that is.

MathBlade's posts since have betrayed that he is scum, because there is no frustration or worry at a crucial factor:

professotic (5)

Mastina

, Bunnyonce, Yume, Enchant,

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

[E-4]

Radja (3) T-Bone, Past Present Future, MMR

MMR (2) Frozen Angel, Maid Cafe

Enchant (1) Mathblade

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1)

furtiveglance
T-Bone (1) Radical Rat

Mastina (1)

professotic
Not Voting (3) Radja, Child of Fairies, Save the Dragons,

VOTE: Scarecrow

VOTE: mastina

FoS on Titus. Don’t see how she’s getting her reads.

FoS on StD

Notice something?

There is NO wagon on ANYONE that MathBlade is suspicious of.
There is a major wagon on someone with 2/4 of MathBlade's scumreads.

PER MATHBLADE'S OWN STATEMENT, he as town should be believing that this is a scum-controlled gamestate.
PER MATHBLADE'S OWN STATEMENT, he should believe that he, as a new player, should be acting as a sort of town savior, to take town control of the game back.
PER MATHBLADE'S OWN STATEMENT, with his given views, he should be actively working with players to form a townbloc and fight back against the scum control.

But instead, his posts are doing nothing to work with others. He's not town here.

[mastina]

(Obviously I'm not done done in talking, have plenty more to say, but like. Shit's going on. Can't game tonight. I wasn't planning on posting at all.)

[mastina]

Crap I have a very important post about why I think there is at least one scumteam with 3 players and that they have TMI'd this to be the case and why I think that,
And I was gonna write it tonight,
But like: I am half an hour late for bed so I can't. (I'm somewhat miffed since I got a SURPRISE!!! double-shift today meaning I had to work an extra 5 hours. Guess which 5 hours I was planning to post in this game today during??? )

I DO think that at least one scumteam TMI'd there being a scumteam of 3 tho--in part because of the reactions to my post, and them thinking "oh mastina scumslipped she's one of the other scumteam".

Will explain what I mean tomorrow but I'm VERY confident in this because I know something the other scumteam doesn't. (Well, two things. One being that I am town.)

So I think they fucked themselves over, I just can't tell you why until tomorrow (assuming no bullshit happens to eat up tomorrow, too). Sleep needed now, I'm only gonna get 5.5 at most so like--if I were to write that post I'd only get at most 5. (It'd take half an hour minimum to write.) Literally genuinely can't.

But will tomorrow.

[mastina]

(I'm somewhat miffed since I got a SURPRISE!!! double-shift today meaning I had to work an extra 5 hours. Guess which 5 hours I was planning to post in this game today during??? )

(Obviously quite angry about this btw since it genuinely means the entirety of today was lost to work. Woke up, was barely not late for work. Worked my normal work schedule. Then, BAM. Had to work a second shift of equal length to the first. Then the moment I got home, busy doing prep for tomorrow, and even hauling my ass trying to not be late, I am half an hour late. So I'm not exaggerating in having lost an ENTIRE day to work and I am quite miffed about it.)

[mastina]

Crap I have a very important post about why I think there is at least one scumteam with 3 players and that they have TMI'd this to be the case and why I think that,
And I was gonna write it tonight,

(Basically I think we have guaranteed scum here--it's not a surefire thing for both teams to be teams of 3, but I am convinced there is at least one team of 3, and that team of 3 believed that I am on the other scumteam and by virtue of them being a team of 3, they assumed their mirror is also a team of 3, and assuming that, assumed that my mention of 6 scum was a scumslip of me being on the other team. Ironically in the process scumslipping themselves. Where they TMI'd in response to what they thought was TMI.)

[mastina]

(I promise I can explain better when not late for bed.)

[mastina]

I have a very important post about why I think there is at least one scumteam with 3 players and that they have TMI'd this to be the case and why I think that,
I DO think that at least one scumteam TMI'd there being a scumteam of 3 tho--in part because of the reactions to my post, and them thinking "oh mastina scumslipped she's one of the other scumteam".
Will explain what I mean tomorrow but I'm VERY confident in this because I know something the other scumteam doesn't. (Well, two things. One being that I am town.)
So I think they fucked themselves over.

Crap I have a very important post about why I think there is at least one scumteam with 3 players and that they have TMI'd this to be the case and why I think that,
And I was gonna write it tonight,

(Basically I think we have guaranteed scum here--it's not a surefire thing for both teams to be teams of 3, but I am convinced there is at least one team of 3, and that team of 3 believed that I am on the other scumteam and by virtue of them being a team of 3, they assumed their mirror is also a team of 3, and assuming that, assumed that my mention of 6 scum was a scumslip of me being on the other team. Ironically in the process scumslipping themselves. Where they TMI'd in response to what they thought was TMI.)

There’s probably at least one scumteam of 3, which believes that I scumslipped.

Now, for the proof.
Okay, so basically:

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi, I am town.

(Okay but for real, I intend to be a BEACON this game, REVEALING the TRUE COLORS of all.)

These were my opening posts in the game.

Read them, and think about them from the perspective of this being a game where:
We don't know if it's normal mafia multiball without extremely special flair,
We don't know if it's a cult game with usual cult mechanics,
And we don't know if it's somewhere between the two extremes.

We don't know if we start the game with only two scum (altho we can infer it's doubtful), we don't know if we start the game with eight scum (altho I laid out why I believe that's doubtful), we don't know that the scumteams are symmetrical, we don't know that the scumteams have the same mechanics, we don't know how many scum are on a team.

To be fair, unless the mod specifically gave them information about their opposing scumteam, the scum don't know if the scum have the same mechanics/size as each other. However, you get the idea. The town doesn't know

anything

about the scum, other than that there are two different scumteams. That's it. That's what they know.

Okay, so given that:
The proof of what I'm saying is in my opening post:
My opening post implies that there’s cult recruitment. I roleplayed abandoning a claim of leading a cult, and roleplayed abandoning a cult-fakeclaiming-Mason claim.

If there were two scumteams of 1-2 each with a recruitment mechanic, they would view my post as a scumslip. (Or, heck, even if only one scumteam was that way.) My opening two posts can--very very easily--be read as me being cult. I am known for being an incredibly cheeky scumfuck. I am known for claiming mason as a cult leader. I am known for not bothering to hide that I am scum and being very open as to the how and the mechanics used, telling huge truths.

Including being the type to be cheeky enough to claim scum in my first post--I've done it before, multiple times. (I can show those scumteams if you want to see the examples yourselves, but yes, scumastina is known for that sort of thing.)


Alright, so let's break this down so far, to make sure you're following.
REMEMBER:
We don't know if it's normal mafia multiball without extremely special flair, a cult game with usual cult mechanics, or somewhere between the two extremes. We don't know how many scum start in the game, if the scumteams are symmetrical, or if the scum share the same mechanics.

My opening post was one that could be seen as either a deliberate cheeky scumfuck post,
Or even as an accidental scumslip.

"mastina slipped that this is a cult game where the scum have voting powers".
That is an argument that could have easily been made by players.
"mastina is being a cheeky scumfuck telling us that she's a cultist in her first post".
That is an argument that could have easily been made by players.

Nobody did, though. Nobody thought that my opening post was a scumslip. Nobody thought that my opening post was me being a cheeky scumfuck.

If there were a scumteam of 1-2 scum, why didn't they think I was their counterpart?

They might not want to say it's a scumslip per se, but they could still use it as a reason to push me. They could scumread me, they could press me, without revealing their TMI. If someone were on a scumteam of 1-2 and saw my opening post, they would think my opening post was TMI. And thinking that, they could use this to push me. Except nobody did. The first vote on me?

VOTE: mastina

This, which was

after

my post 92, and

after

the first player calling attention to my 92.

Which suggests that there isn't actually two factions of 1-2.

If there was two factions of 1-2, they should've seen my

opening

post as the scumslip

. Yet they didn't.

So, what does that tell you?

That at least one faction has three, and precisely three, members.

And this faction genuinely believes that I TMI'd thanks to THEM having TMI.

Notably, proof of this is in MathBlade's replacement.

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi, I am town.

Wdm cult game
Cult is just flavor, it's not confirmed they can convert.

Not sure about this post. The OP says cult conversion is neither confirmed nor denied.
Has there been an explicit message somewhere I missed?

Notice something?

In this post, MathBlade sees me imply a 1-2 member cult mafia faction but

doesn't think it's suspicious

.

(Yes I am aware that's too few scum since the approximate amount should be 6, so I'm townreading slots I shouldn't be, but for

now

, this'll do.)

This post by Mastina is suspicious.
It’s clear from the presenters here we don’t know if cult can recruit.
Yet somehow Mastina ends up on 6 because why?
VOTE: mastina

Yet here, me stating ~6 scum, MathBlade sees as suspect.

So the crux of the issue then becomes:

Why was the 3-man scumteam callout considered a scumslip, but the 1-2-man cult callout

not

considered a scumslip?

If MathBlade were town, then

my very first post

should have pinged him as a scumslip showing TMI of a 1-2-man cult.
If MathBlade were a member of a 1-2-man scumteam, he should have thought my opening post was a scumslip showing TMI of being his opposite.

But MathBlade didn't react to my first post being a cult game callout.

MathBlade only reacted to my post where I made the callout of a

three-man

scumteam.

And this is true of all the players who have gone on to suspect me.
Their pressure on me didn't begin until

after

144.

(Side-note, Bunnyonce might be scum, too, but if so is on the

opposite

team.)

So what does all of this mean?

That there is a scumteam with three members, who believed that my callout of there being six scum in the game was me as the opposite scumteam doing a TMI scumslip--when themselves ironically TMI'ing.

I still think that team is {MathBlade, professotic, Frozen Angel}, but obviously, I am behind and need to read the game.

[mastina]

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi, I am town.

Wdm cult game
Cult is just flavor, it's not confirmed they can convert.

Not sure about this post. The OP says cult conversion is neither confirmed nor denied.
Has there been an explicit message somewhere I missed?

(Btw just for reference, I believe a town-MathBlade

would

tunnel in on this. That he didn't is evidence he isn't town.)

[mastina]

Maybe mastina would like to finally confirm for us if she thinks FA is in her scum or town meta?

I already did, repeatedly.

My stance on FA I really don't get why y'all don't understand it, I'm being as clear as I can.

Frozen Angel has a night/day difference between her towngame and scumgame.
This is very damn strongly obvious. Her alignments could not be more distinct.

I

know

the differences IN the meta. I can identify the differences between one meta and the other. Just by her entrance into this game, I could tell FA was playing to her standard play as her alignment.
As in, if this is FA as town it is 100% her towngame;
If this is FA as scum it is 100% her scumgame.

If I have seen her towngame recently, I would instantly be able to tell her alignment in every game--because her play in this game is 100% matching to her meta, just by remembering what her towngame is, I'd be able to tell if it were matching that or matching the opposite.

If I had seen her scumgame recently, would instantly be able to tell her alignment in every game--because her play in this game is 100% matching to her meta, just by remembering what her scumgame is, I'd be able to tell if it were matching that or matching the opposite.

FA's metas are distinct enough that I can instantly tell when she is playing to one of them.

But my memory is rusted enough that it's not 100% on which is which.

I am like 90% sure that this is the scum meta.
But I am 100% sure that she is playing 100% to the typical meta for her current alignment.

If I had seen FA more recently, I'd be able to make the 90% into a 100% and that would make me 100% sure on her 100% playing 100% to that alignment.
But the 90% on a 100% is still pretty damn high.

The only thing that keeps it from being the most lockread of lockread is being rusty on FA gameplay.

Her alignment is transparently obvious if you've played with her recently. It is 100% her Xgame, where X = her alignment this game. If you've seen her play, and if you know about the night/day difference, then you should be able to tell what X equals, and therefore have a 100% guaranteed accuracy on FA.

I just haven't played with her recently--thus, I need to look it up.
When I actually do my research and refresh my memory on which meta is which, I will know FA's alignment 100% because she is 100% playing to her meta for her current alignment and I know the differences between her two metas.


OH I JUST FIGURED OUT A MUCH SIMPLER WAY TO EXPLAIN ALL OF THIS.

Imagine that we're talking about Creature.
Say you know that Creature posts a shitload as one alignment, and hardcore lurks as the other.
You see this trait present in the current game, where he is either posting a shitload, or he is hardcore lurking. Not an in-between. 100% posting a shitload, or 100% hardcore lurking.

You know that this stark contrast is alignment-indicative for Creature.

But you don't remember which is which.
You're

pretty

sure that the hardcore lurking meta is the scum one. So, say this is a game where Creature is hardcore lurking. You are thus

pretty

sure that Creature is scum. You KNOW that he has a night/day difference between the town/scum metas, you can SEE the difference in live time by seeing that he is hardcore lurking and know that hardcore lurking is either the brightest of bright days or the darkest of dark nights in being a huge alignment indicators.
But you're rusty on Creature and can't FOR SURE remember it, in spite of being pretty sure it's the scum meta.


...Does that make sense?

That's my read on FA.
I am

pretty

sure that this meta is FA's scum one. So I am

pretty

sure that FA is scum. I KNOW she has a night/day difference between the town/scum metas, can SEE the difference in live time. But I'm rusty on FA and can't FOR SURE remember it, in spite of being pretty sure it's the scum meta.

[mastina]

I would like her to explain the meta tells she is using

.

Well STD is easy. He is too casual to be mafia. And until he basically left the game because he felt he was being too serious, he was quite active, too.

STD as scum is more serious and more lurkey. (Note that STD flaking out is not lurkey, it is him having a bad reaction to the game--that, given the way it happened, I feel was extra town, because STD was being casual and it happened. If STD were scum, then he would just ease up, back off, knowing he did too much. But STD as town already

was

in his perspective being fairly lax/loose/laid back, so IN THE STATE HE SEES AS laid back, feeling he went too far = he just...leaves. Which hard-spews him as town.)

FA it's more about her opening posts and focus and what she's spending time doing and what her priority was. One meta is more serious, the other more casual. I

think

that the serious meta is the scum meta and this was the serious meta, thus scum.

Now!

These are not full explanations, mind you!

If you think this is a full explanation of the meta on STD or FA, fuck no, there's a lot more--but respectfully, this early into the game, I don't want to give out too many details. Explaining your tells midgame generally is a fine way to invalidate them.
So like. I'm keeping it deliberately vague/unspecific because I don't want to give them a guide into fooling folks in the future. I quite

like

being able to see them as their true alignments.

[mastina]

I would like her to explain the meta tells she is using

.

Outside of STD and FA tho:

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{Yume, Radical Rat, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow}
{Maid Cafe, MMR}

TOWNLEAN:
{furtiveglance}
{Enchant}
{T-Bone}


{Child of Fairies}
{Radja}


{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:

{Frozen Angel}

{professotic}

{Korina/MathBlade}

This is the towngame of all three heads of PPF but in particular Nancy. Nancy is one of the easiest players to read onsite and every player having the slot remotely suspicious that has played with her is automatically suspect for not calling her the townie she is. But even Auro and Titus are showing themselves to be town. I shouldn't need to explain the Nancy meta but I can go into the Auro/Titus ones if needed, it's just that it'd be a lot of time/effort for something I don't see as important to lay out. The Nancy meta is enough. I'm not the only player to have played with Nancy here and not every player who knows her play will be scum so like. All it really takes is ~2-4 players verifying she's town and you can know she is in fact town.

Yume, I feel like in this game her content was closer to her town self. Her early interactions seemed to be laying the groundwork for her townplay. It's another read I don't want to explain, but can show. Yume adapts her meta when tells are pointed out, so I want to avoid pointing out the tells I am using to call her town. But it's basically what she was doing, when she was doing it.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow has Klick in it, and this is not the first time I have seen Klick as town in a multiball game. He is

exactly

the same player he was in Multiball2, so that's why he's town this game.

Maid Cafe is not a meta read but play read. Mostly, the same for MMR, too.

Loosely

I would say that MMR's play looks like each head in a towngame but obviously, not easy.

furtiveglance, I explained already--this doesn't look like his play in Datisi's Cafe. In Datisi's cafe, he was effectively scum in a multiball game, in a way incredibly comparable to this game. Him being vastly different from that game is promising for it being him as town.

Rest of reads aren't meta except tictac and MathBlade. (Well I guess I think Greeting's play is loosely Greeting's scum meta, but like: not enough to call it an actual meta read.)

tictac I don't feel like explaining; MathBlade I am continuously explaining by laying out the way he thinks as town and why his thoughts this game are vastly different from the way he would think as town.

[mastina]

Mastina, where's the Korina read coming from? They've done literally nothing and are getting replaced, so I don't see how they can be anything but null

Seconded. Korina tends to flake as both alignments.

So does Yume, that doesn't mean you can't get a read on Yume based on her time in the game, including her first post.

Same concept for Korina. Korina can flake as either alignment--but Korina's singular post was still a scum entrance.

VOTE: enchant
Will read later
Also

@mod - reoccurring v/la monday/tuesday

This post has absolutely zero rvs vibes to it and yet absolutely zero content to it.

Korina said "will read later"--in other words, the Enchant vote is not based on any content in the game so far.

Yet Korina's vote on Enchant was blank. Empty. Reasonless.

There was no flair to it.

There was no reasoning given. There was no statement behind the Enchant vote. No joke. Nothing. Just a naked Enchant vote--that by Korina's "will read later", was not off of anything Korina had read. Korina gave no context behind the Enchant vote. Korina gave no justification for it. If Korina had read the game, then an Enchant vote could make sense. If Korina gave a reason for voting Enchant then it would make sense as an RVS.

But a naked vote that implies reading, while having stated you haven't read, is a scum post.

[mastina]

Lol really?
Like this is ridiculous.

Mastina I think scum slipped hard with the 6.

By the way: this is MathBlade doing the "projecting the reason for the scumread he THINKS they have" thing.

Which is a signature of his scumgame.

As per usual, he got it wrong.

As a matter of fact, yes! I DO think that MathBlade scumslipped hard with his mention of the 6.

But you know where I said that?

Spoiler: spoilered for length

I have a very important post about why I think there is at least one scumteam with 3 players and that they have TMI'd this to be the case and why I think that,
I DO think that at least one scumteam TMI'd there being a scumteam of 3 tho--in part because of the reactions to my post, and them thinking "oh mastina scumslipped she's one of the other scumteam".
Will explain what I mean tomorrow but I'm VERY confident in this because I know something the other scumteam doesn't. (Well, two things. One being that I am town.)
So I think they fucked themselves over.

Crap I have a very important post about why I think there is at least one scumteam with 3 players and that they have TMI'd this to be the case and why I think that,
And I was gonna write it tonight,

(Basically I think we have guaranteed scum here--it's not a surefire thing for both teams to be teams of 3, but I am convinced there is at least one team of 3, and that team of 3 believed that I am on the other scumteam and by virtue of them being a team of 3, they assumed their mirror is also a team of 3, and assuming that, assumed that my mention of 6 scum was a scumslip of me being on the other team. Ironically in the process scumslipping themselves. Where they TMI'd in response to what they thought was TMI.)

There’s probably at least one scumteam of 3, which believes that I scumslipped.

Now, for the proof.
Okay, so basically:

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi, I am town.

(Okay but for real, I intend to be a BEACON this game, REVEALING the TRUE COLORS of all.)

These were my opening posts in the game.

Read them, and think about them from the perspective of this being a game where:
We don't know if it's normal mafia multiball without extremely special flair,
We don't know if it's a cult game with usual cult mechanics,
And we don't know if it's somewhere between the two extremes.

We don't know if we start the game with only two scum (altho we can infer it's doubtful), we don't know if we start the game with eight scum (altho I laid out why I believe that's doubtful), we don't know that the scumteams are symmetrical, we don't know that the scumteams have the same mechanics, we don't know how many scum are on a team.

To be fair, unless the mod specifically gave them information about their opposing scumteam, the scum don't know if the scum have the same mechanics/size as each other. However, you get the idea. The town doesn't know

anything

about the scum, other than that there are two different scumteams. That's it. That's what they know.

Okay, so given that:
The proof of what I'm saying is in my opening post:
My opening post implies that there’s cult recruitment. I roleplayed abandoning a claim of leading a cult, and roleplayed abandoning a cult-fakeclaiming-Mason claim.

If there were two scumteams of 1-2 each with a recruitment mechanic, they would view my post as a scumslip. (Or, heck, even if only one scumteam was that way.) My opening two posts can--very very easily--be read as me being cult. I am known for being an incredibly cheeky scumfuck. I am known for claiming mason as a cult leader. I am known for not bothering to hide that I am scum and being very open as to the how and the mechanics used, telling huge truths.

Including being the type to be cheeky enough to claim scum in my first post--I've done it before, multiple times. (I can show those scumteams if you want to see the examples yourselves, but yes, scumastina is known for that sort of thing.)


Alright, so let's break this down so far, to make sure you're following.
REMEMBER:
We don't know if it's normal mafia multiball without extremely special flair, a cult game with usual cult mechanics, or somewhere between the two extremes. We don't know how many scum start in the game, if the scumteams are symmetrical, or if the scum share the same mechanics.

My opening post was one that could be seen as either a deliberate cheeky scumfuck post,
Or even as an accidental scumslip.

"mastina slipped that this is a cult game where the scum have voting powers".
That is an argument that could have easily been made by players.
"mastina is being a cheeky scumfuck telling us that she's a cultist in her first post".
That is an argument that could have easily been made by players.

Nobody did, though. Nobody thought that my opening post was a scumslip. Nobody thought that my opening post was me being a cheeky scumfuck.

If there were a scumteam of 1-2 scum, why didn't they think I was their counterpart?

They might not want to say it's a scumslip per se, but they could still use it as a reason to push me. They could scumread me, they could press me, without revealing their TMI. If someone were on a scumteam of 1-2 and saw my opening post, they would think my opening post was TMI. And thinking that, they could use this to push me. Except nobody did. The first vote on me?

VOTE: mastina

This, which was

after

my post 92, and

after

the first player calling attention to my 92.

Which suggests that there isn't actually two factions of 1-2.

If there was two factions of 1-2, they should've seen my

opening

post as the scumslip

. Yet they didn't.

So, what does that tell you?

That at least one faction has three, and precisely three, members.

And this faction genuinely believes that I TMI'd thanks to THEM having TMI.

Notably, proof of this is in MathBlade's replacement.

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.
Hi, I am town.

Wdm cult game
Cult is just flavor, it's not confirmed they can convert.

Not sure about this post. The OP says cult conversion is neither confirmed nor denied.
Has there been an explicit message somewhere I missed?

Notice something?

In this post, MathBlade sees me imply a 1-2 member cult mafia faction but

doesn't think it's suspicious

.

(Yes I am aware that's too few scum since the approximate amount should be 6, so I'm townreading slots I shouldn't be, but for

now

, this'll do.)

This post by Mastina is suspicious.
It’s clear from the presenters here we don’t know if cult can recruit.
Yet somehow Mastina ends up on 6 because why?
VOTE: mastina

Yet here, me stating ~6 scum, MathBlade sees as suspect.

So the crux of the issue then becomes:

Why was the 3-man scumteam callout considered a scumslip, but the 1-2-man cult callout

not

considered a scumslip?

If MathBlade were town, then

my very first post

should have pinged him as a scumslip showing TMI of a 1-2-man cult.
If MathBlade were a member of a 1-2-man scumteam, he should have thought my opening post was a scumslip showing TMI of being his opposite.

But MathBlade didn't react to my first post being a cult game callout.

MathBlade only reacted to my post where I made the callout of a

three-man

scumteam.

And this is true of all the players who have gone on to suspect me.
Their pressure on me didn't begin until

after

144.

(Side-note, Bunnyonce might be scum, too, but if so is on the

opposite

team.)

So what does all of this mean?

That there is a scumteam with three members, who believed that my callout of there being six scum in the game was me as the opposite scumteam doing a TMI scumslip--when themselves ironically TMI'ing.

I still think that team is {MathBlade, professotic, Frozen Angel}, but obviously, I am behind and need to read the game.

MathBlade thought that I was saying he was scum for thinking 6 scum. While I DO, it wasn't until 602 that I did.

So why was it that MathBlade assumed it way way way back in 365? Let's quote 364.

VOTE: Scarecrow

VOTE: mastina

FoS on Titus. Don’t see how she’s getting her reads.

FoS on StD

Oh yeah MathBlade's lockscum here; he's literally voting/pushing the four towniest* slots in the game.

(*Admittedly one of them, me, requires knowledge of my alignment. I've not towned it up yet. But MathBlade is literally FoSing/voting three of the towniest slots in the game, with me as a fourth--I get that MathBlade can have bad towngames, but this is not an entrance MathBlade ever has as town.

There's a lot more, but tbh I wasn't planning on posting here today at all. In fact I explicitly was trying to take today as a rest day. But I couldn't let this go unsaid; MathBlade is 200% scum here. The above is a big reason but there's more reasons beyond that; I can explain those reasons when I actually feel like posting.)

MathBlade's 365 was in direct response to 364.

So tell me:

What in my 364 made MathBlade think that my scumread on him came from mentioning the 6 scum?

I

did

develop a stronger scumread on MathBlade for that--

250 posts later

.
But nothing in 364 even

remotely

hints on it. I genuinely didn't even have the THOUGHT until Yesterday at ~4 PM.

I developed the scumslip of 6 scum theory on Sunday, at 4 PM pacific

. (I have it in my diary/journal to myself. Obviously, no screenshots since said diary is personal, but like. I was at work. I had a flash of inspiration while I was guarding at 3:45 or so. So at 4, I wrote it down to make sure I didn't forget.)

So HOW did MathBlade think I had that theory when it wasn't until a

full 24 hours later

that I developed it???

MathBlade thought I was scumreading him for 6 scum, a full 24 hours before I developed the 6 scum tmi scumslip theory.

From a post that was self-explanatory in why I was scumreading him.

I said that MathBlade was scum for scumreading the four towniest slots in the game--how, from a post saying MB is scum for scumreading the 4 towniest slots in the game, did MB get "mastina is scumreading me for 6 scum theory" from a post that had nothing of the sort?

It's MathBlade projecting because he knows the scumslip he made.

[mastina]

I liked most of mastina's reads but I 100% disagree on her read on Math.
He could be wrong in his reads but I don't think that it makes him scum.

Sure, in of itself, MathBlade can have a towngame that atrocious. Scumreading four of the towniest slots in the game isn't impossible.

But it's also who the names are in question.
And MathBlade's experience with the players.
And then on top of that, the reasons for the reads.
And how he is pushing them.

The reads themselves are not in of themselves damning. If you want to have basic respect for MathBlade's competency as a town player, you should be at being

that

off-base and THAT wrong and THAT out-of-touch. But admittedly, it's not impossible; MathBlade has bad towngames.

The reasons used, the players the reads are on, and his experience with them? All of those make it a

lot

more damning.

There is also the gamestate in question. MathBlade's suspicion on those players is strategic. It is his attempt to give scum a way back into the game.

Literally everything MathBlade is doing is scum this game, and I mean it. Everything. He is not remotely his town self. None of his towntells are present.

[mastina]

It’s well known that I tend to disagree with popular opinion at times no matter my alignment.

Sure, but this is you doing that as scum under the belief you would do it as town--but the way you did it betrayed being scum.

[mastina]

Flail harder

Btw I'm like 90% sure MathBlade uses the phrase "flail harder" disproportionately as scum.

He

has

used it as town--but I'm pretty sure it's a scumtell.
In the sense of an actual tell.

A tell that is not 100%. It's not like every usage of "flail harder" from MathBlade is gonna be scum.

But I'd wager that it's well above 50.

In the ~75% (give or take 10%) range.

Where ~75% of the time it's MB as scum and only ~25% as town.

So, a tell that indicates MathBlade as scum but doesn't outright confirm he is.

Given the mountain of evidence against him tho, it certainly seems to be the 75%!

[mastina]

If I had to guess at scumteams, my current guess would be {FA, professotic, MathBlade} | {Bunnyonce, Radja?, ???}.
But obviously not final.

Btw I stand by this solve, so far.

I'm not gonna be able to get caught up tonight. (If I'm not in bed an hour from now I'm late, and at the rate I'm going I ain't getting to page 30.)

But so far, everything points to the {FA, professotic, MathBlade} scumteam, and I think Bunnyonce is scum but Bunnyonce individually has anti-partner tells with literally all three of FA/professotic/MB, so Bunnyonce looks like scum but can't be scum with those three. (And yes those three all match as scum with each other.)

[mastina]

Mathblade replaces Korina.

Confirming my replace in. I am working so haven’t read.
Anywhere I should read on my break?

Btw to give an idea of how scum MathBlade is, even this first post is minor scum. It's admittedly only like 2%, 52-48, but ever so

slightly

, this is a scum entrance from MathBlade.

Did you bother to calculate the standard deviation Mastina?

The numbers I used are estimations, never precise percentages. I use percentage numbers to give a visual descriptor to people. 'ever so slightly' is considered vague, '52%' quantifies it. The 52% is not actually a real quantity, but it is useful shorthand to give a number that helps people understand what 'ever so slightly' is meant to be.

In this case specifically, the replacement is ever so slightly scum because it looks like scum that has to catch up in two different topics, rather than just one. It feels like scum that needs time to adjust. The wording used is important. It looks like a post specifically meant to appease the town, rather than a genuine request. It looks like a post that is made to not look suspicious. Rather than a post actually gathering info.

It's only slightly, because obviously, you make similar posts as both alignments when replacing in.

But, the 2% is notable--2% on its own might not be enough.

2% on top of the myriad of other reasons?

THAT, on the other hand......

[mastina]

Yay welcome to people who claim to read me yet almost no one on MS can.
What’s new?

This is basically a scumfession from MathBlade--

If he thought I was scum, then he wouldn't think I was reading him wrong, now, would he?

If I were scum, then my read on him would be a scum agenda.

So him saying this is basically him saying I am town.

[mastina]

Mastina is proving herself scum here.

I might not have townned it up pre-Saturday, I'd be the first to admit that.

But from Saturday onward there is zero universe where anyone who's played with me can genuinely think I'm scum.

[mastina]

If you did an actual analysis versus computation you’d have noticed a common word pattern.

Oh I did. It's the word pattern that makes it a tell.

It's annoyingly hard to

explain

, because how do I explain one word pattern being town versus one pattern being scum? I don't know how.

But I did that work and this is your scum patterns.

[mastina]

She has an emotional “tell” to me. That’s not the right phrasing but I can’t think of better.

She sure does!

She's displayed it already.

And I am pretty sure she showed the scum version of it.

[mastina]

I'm still here, still haven't properly read. My less-busy section of week is approaching and I'll do a proper reading then, pinky swear.
For now though, rough instinct says MathBlade Town.

Hmm.

VOTE: professotic
I can't really quantify it, but it feels like they're playing looking for someone to kill rather than looking for scum. Just the way they're engaging feels... Wrong.

Mastina, where's the Korina read coming from? They've done literally nothing and are getting replaced, so I don't see how they can be anything but null

Oh I think I found the third scum on the Bunnyone scumteam!

I actually think I'm more sure on RR being scum than on Radja, tbh.

Radical Rat isn't scum with any of FA/professotic/MathBlade but I think he's scum now.

(I don't remember why I had him as town but looking at this post, it just ~clicked~.)

So that's:
SCUM TEAM ONE: {FA, professotic, MathBlade}

SCUM TEAM TWO: {Bunnyonce, Radical Rat, ?Radja?}.

[mastina]

Actually, no.
I reread our Hydra Chat and I was right beforehand.
My memory's bad.
-Rubella

So you and Ircher think Math’s town and Roden is the one who’s sr him. Got it.
I haven’t heard any self-pitying posts about popularly yet, so I’ll take that as good sign for now. No offence @Math but if you ever do that I’ll yeet you into next week.
eta: just saw MMR’s most recent post, Ircher hasn’t expressed a read.
@Math it’s fine. <3

Don’t worry. I don’t think I will be yeeted this game.
Call it a good hunch.
I think today goes (barring wild swings) professor wagon dies or maybe not but I won’t join it.
I give professor wagon a 75% chance of collapse here as it seems like a remnant of RVS.
Then we see if theory of scumfluence is right.

Btw if you want more proof Math's scum here, remember who Math pushed as scum?
How MathBlade was calling Titus scum?
Titus is a part of PPF.

Does this look like a post where town is talking to a slot they scumread?

Sure doesn't look like it to me!

MathBlade knows that Past Present Future are town--which makes you wonder why he called them scum in the first place.

Almost like...he had an agenda.

A scum one.

[mastina]

Let me say this much.
PPF, Mastina and Radical are NEVER all town.
They contain at minimum 1 wolf, I don’t directly think all 3 are wolves but 2 is decently probable.

Oh you have a fairly good odds of being right on RR but PPF and I are both 100% town and this was not a post made actually expecting there to be a scum within. You thought it was three town so if there's scum in there it's purely coincidental tbh.

[mastina]

Plus they way Klick voted us didn’t feel opportunistic.
Felt like a genuine Townie that was concerned on our slot.

This is also a bullshit read btw since it doesn't carry through to other slots.

Do you remember me?
TrueSoulEnergy?

Oh thanks for that, that gives me the info to call

both

halves of you scum rather than just the tictac half since this is not TSE's towngame!

[mastina]

Not in a wolfy way but more they're too prideful to step back from it and it's hard to tell if that's wolf motivated or not as I drum my fingers on the table.

MathBlade's is--his entrance has been designed from the getgo to try and look town and recover the bad position his scumteam is in.

He would sure LIKE for you to write the fight off as TvT.

He would sure LIKE for you to call it an ego battle.

But it's not.

He IS scum here, period.

[mastina]

Why are we the only ones voting a mafia member? You guys really want a miss execution don’t yeah?

I think Mastina is scum.
No one else does yet.
Mastina will either prove herself to everyone or I will be proven wrong.
I have only seen Mastina go deep once or twice and I think the Mastina problem takes care of herself.

Did you two mean to post this in your scum PT?

Sure seems that way!

[mastina]

I am fully aware of this fact Professor.
You’re talking as if you think I am some novice or something.
Let it go.
Mastina while she’s clearly scum to me I don’t think will be a problem.
If I die and she’s not dead then full steam ahead imho.
But until then I can watch, wait, and see.

Like--this post literally looks like it was meant to be in the scum PT.

Genuinely.

(I do need to leave tho, I'm late for bed. Technically not because 20 minutes from now, but since it'll take me twice that long to finish bed prep am already late. So p20 is my cutoff, sorry. I tried!)

[mastina]

I'm late for leaving for work but I have to say: any mentions of me not doing things should perhaps pay attention to how I was last active on Friday, I take Saturdays off, and then I got blindsided by a double-shift on Sunday that instead of leaving me with 8 hours of free time left me with only two and that for the last two days I have done literally everything I can to stay afloat but I'm not there yet because I genuinely haven't had the time thanks to the work double-shift. (Proof I haven't had time: if I had the time, I would've been reading the scum PT from Datisi's cafe and commenting on that game's scum PT's contents. I haven't, because that PT released either Saturday or Sunday, and lo and behold, I haven't been able to read it yet because I haven't had the time.)

But that content IS coming. Today I should have more time.

I am not going to respond to everything but why haven't I "updated" my read on FA?

Because my read is fucking accurate, that's why. Why update a read that's right? I know I'm right about my read there.

Why haven't I confirmed my 90% by looking for recent FA games to push it to 100%?

Because I fucking haven't had the time since before Saturday, that's why.
And before that, nobody had asked me to, so being a procrastinator that's highly a reactive player, I simply didn't think to. After people DID ask, I would love to have--but they didn't start asking until around Saturday.

[mastina]

Btw I have been in a bad mood since Saturday (technically Friday night and onward) and haven't recovered since then. I was in a bad mood Sunday for even more obvious reasons, and my bad mood continued into yesterday.

Today is no different. I am still in a bad mood, worsened by being a hot mess. I was 40 minutes late waking up, still didn't get enough sleep in spite of that, had poor quality sleep, dealt with a wardrobe malfunction, left home without eating breakfast, was 20 minutes late for work, didn’t feed two very hungry cats, and more.

So, if I come across as overly hostile, my apologies. Best I can hope for is that this isn’t going to come across as a personal attack. I normally wouldn't post during times that I'm this angry since they risk getting me removed from the game and/or banned, but I genuinely have no choice but to.

On that note:
I realize that scumastina is well-known for falling behind.
But anyone trying to use that to shade me can fuck off. There's VERY obvious reasons for my inactivity here and struggling to stay up to date. Those factors happen regardless of my alignment and are thus NAI because they are rl-related.

What IS alignment indicative is my RESPONSE to the rl shit.
As scum, I literally do nothing when rl shit hits. The reasons vary, the results are near-universal: literally doing nothing.
And don't you fucking dare try to say, "but mastina, you're doing nothing right now".
I very clearly am not doing LITERALLY nothing.
When I say scumastina does literally nothing, I mean LITERALLY NOTHING BUT PROD DODGING, zero content in the prodges. Literally. Zero.

You can say I'm not doing MUCH right now, but that "not much" is still higher than the absolute zero which is the actual scumastina tell. I, very clearly, am trying.

On that note, more about my FA read in this game:
My FA read in this game is very similar to my StD read in the two concurrent games, Pokémon Gen1+2 and Gypyx's AI Upick.
I knew that StD had a night/day difference between his town play and his scumplay, but I didn’t remember which was which.
I could tell that he was playing to his meta, but I initially didn’t have the time to sort which was which. Like FA is this game, I had a fairly high level of confidence in remembering the tell differentiating his towngame and scumgame. But I didn’t have the time to research which was which, until much much later.

So while I knew that there was a night/day difference between his alignments, I didn't know for SURE which was which. My read on him was only about 90%, until I had the time to do the research.

That took weeks for me to find the time to do, but once I finally DID do the research, the 90% jumped to 100%.

Same story here.
I know FA has a night/day difference between her towngame and scumgame, same way StD did back then.
I am pretty sure that I know which is which, at 90%, same as back then for StD.
But I haven't had the time to do the research YET. It took weeks, closer to MONTHS, for me to find the time to do that for StD.

And here, it hasn't been weeks closer to months for FA, now, has it?
So, I WILL do the research. When I have the time. I just haven't yet, because, y'know.
Too much rl shit.

I'm pretty sure that this is the scum half for FA tho.

On the note of StD tho, since those games where I did the research, since then, I've not been wrong on my StD read since then. After I did my homework, my read rate on him became flawless.

Which is why I know that he's town this game.

I am sure that in a future FA game, I'll point to this game and say the same for her then as I'm saying for StD now.

[mastina]

Btw for obvious reasons, I didn't want to say this out loud, but fuckit, sure, why not.


Another reason (as if I needed more) that I think that MathBlade is scum is because of his role breadcrumbs.

Obviously, I could be wrong about what he's breadcrumbing.

But it looks to me like he's breadcrumbing a role that is basically my role.
Obviously, I could be off-base. Mistaken entirely about what role he is hinting to have.

But if I wasn’t phoneposting from work, I could pull up the post from him that looks to me like he's claiming my role.

Suffice to say, I have zero interest in claiming today (the NUMEROUS breadcrumbs I've given already should be plenty sufficient for when I do claim), but when I eventually do claim, I'll point out the MathBlade posts which made me think that he's trying to claim what's essentially my role.

By virtue of it BEING my role, naturally, I don’t think that him having it would be town. And this isn’t a case of mirror roles, either.

But for obvious reasons, I shouldn't elaborate further. Even this much is arguably too much.

[mastina]

If she’s town THEN I’d care about a scum pile on
But since it’s multiball I don’t care if other scum destroys scum.
Trying to get an all town wagon day one is not a goal in multiball. It’s elimming scum.

Oh hey guess what??.

I'm town.

Guess what???

The entirety of one scumteam is voting me.

Guess what???

Someone who is very likely part of the OTHER scumteam is voting me.

4/5 of the votes are from scum. (T-Bone will look back at his presence on that wagon later and realize how badly he fucked up. In a way that imo clears him as town, but like. I'll probably be dead by then and him still alive so I won't be around to defend him after he realizes how badly he fucked up by joining the all-scum wagon.)

It's ALMOST like...
Oh, I dunno...

...Both scumteams think that I am a member of the opposite scumteam and are convinced that eliminating me is safe.

...Surprise!!!

Turns out that I am going to flip town because I am town, and after I do I want everyone to come back to this moment in the game and fucking sheep me.

I was RIGHT about the scum being teams of 3.
I didn't know it at the time! I literally said "approximately", because I DIDN’T know.

But BOTH scumteams thought that I scumslipped being part of the opposite scumteam.

Not one scumteam.

BOTH of them.

To repeat.
To reiterate.

One scumteam is {professotic, Mathblade, Frozen Angel}.
The other scumteam is {Bunnyonce, Radical Rat, ???}. (Currently best guess is Radja.)

Neither team believes that I am town, both teams believe that I am scum that is genuinely sure I nailed my counterparts and simply lying about my own team, but both scumteams are in for a NASTY surprise.

Namely, that I am town, and that, yes:
After I flip, they're FUCKED.
Because they can't escape that my townflip hard-incriminates them. They can't escape that they TMI'd.

They'll certainly try to!

You can already see MathBlade laying the groundwork with his posts, where he lays out the "in the unlikely event that mastina is town".

When I DO flip town, take to heart all the players pushing me now and how they have to spin things after the fact.

After I flip town, do not let ANY of professotic/MathBlade/FA/RR/Bunnyonce off the hook for pushing the narratives they are.

Because this is genuinely a guaranteed town win if you chain eliminations through all five of them.

They think that my flip will give them breathing room, but my townflip HARD-condemns them.

And you better fucking believe this:
If you don't eliminate them after I die and I am inevitably shown to be right:
I will NEVER let you forget.
I will bring it up in EVERY interaction we have that YOU fucking let my D1 solve that was correct go to waste.

(That said, if you think that I am asking to be eliminated D1 and then posthumously sheeped, FUCK no.
We can get a perfect game by eliminating those five, then tracking down the sixth.
My role is strong enough that I shouldn't die.
And most importantly of all, I don’t trust you flickers to actually sheep me after I die. I am DEMANDING that you do. But I know that you won't. I'll hold it over you for the rest of your mafia life, saying I fucking told you so, but I know that you won't ACTUALLY sheep me. This is more so for if the town actually IS stupid enough to eliminate me D1.)

[mastina]

Btw the folks that have said I am ignoring them/not responding to them/not explaining things/etc. are also being disingenuous as fuck and hard-scum for it because no fucking shit I've not responded to everything, I have had a hellish half a week or so which is looking to only get worse. (Pretty sure I'm sick now. And I can't go to sleep yet. I

could

nap, but if I nap, that means I don't get caught up tonight. So I can't nap. Can't nap, can't sleep, am probably sick, got two more days of work, so like. Objectively, I

shouldn't

be here. I'm here tho because I have to be. I don't want to not read/respond to key areas of the game. That's the nuclear option of absolute last resort. To prevent that from happening, I need to keep fighting to get caught up.)

(That said, literally anyone who has played with me should know that this is MILES out of my scum range. Like. Literally leagues out. And I mean out of my scumrange period. It's out of my multiball scumrange. And anyone who has played with me before pretending that this is in any way shape or form remotely similar to a past scumgame of mine? Is a fucking liar because it's self-evidently not.)

[mastina]

It’s not so much whether Mastina makes sense but if she has an overarching view or not.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87275
Scum game.
Here her main topic or thread was Chrono trigger / cross sprinkled with reads

Instead she has empty statements and doesn’t look at the game as a whole.

The gist is
Mastina is not looking at the overarching game and instead hyper focusing (see above for difference)
Her posts seem to be factually correct but overall meaningless (Eg town and scum exist in the game. Well duh)
The things that aren’t meaningless are skewed in a weird way (Eg the 52% is well within the standard deviation. If I do something as town or scum then by definition it’s NAI. Her *best* example of me being scum is NAI. That should tell you I am not scum)

Btw going through MathBlade's iso for a different reason and all of these posts in particular are disingenuous as fuck in various ways which prove MathBlade is scum.

640 gives an accurate link to what my scumgame is. Notice something in that game? There was genuinely no effort. I posted the absolute bare minimum and did fuckall of anything. TRUE fuckall of anything. Genuinely did nothing.

To say that game is anything REMOTELY like this game is egregious as fuck. This game is night/day to that one.

A lot of the disjointed nature of my posting can be attributed to the obvious: that I have had a fucking shitty week that is only getting worse and worse and that trying to present coherent thoughts is basically impossible. There is NO world where MathBlade as town doesn't realize a town-mastina with rl shit going on is going to be more "all over" the place. (Which btw is actually a towntell so MathBlade presenting it as a scumtell is itself MathBlade outright lying about my meta.)

My statements are not "factually correct but overall meaningless". The statements have meaning and purpose. All of them are describing WHY my reads are what they are and giving backing for them.

I have an overarching view and have been VERY clear about it all.

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{Yume}
{Maid Cafe, MMR}

TOWNLEAN:
{furtiveglance}
{Enchant}
{T-Bone}

NULL:
{Child of Fairies}


{Radja}


ALSO SCUM BUT DIFFERENT:
{Bunnyonce, Radical Rat}

SCUM:
{Korina/MathBlade, Frozen Angel*, professotic}

Past Present Future is town because literally all three heads are in their town metas. Nancy in particular is the easiest player onsite to read and literally every player not townreading Nancy who has played with her before is automatically suspect for not seeing it because literally all of them should be agreeing with this townread of her.
Auro's stances are exactly the reasoned statements that I have come to know and expect from him as town. They are the casual, but analytical, reasonable, posts of a town player trying to game solve with decent logic and points.
Titus's absentmindedness while providing unusual takes and overall direction is basically town.
And then their hydra talk is transparently not fake and also strongly indicative that they are town. You can tell from the topics they are discussing that they are solving the game without any agenda, and it shows in their play.

Save the Dragons has a night and day town/scum meta where as scum he basically wallposts and is super duper serious while also callous. As town, however, he is basically a spamposter, casual, laid-back, low-pressure, jokey, but still solving.

Klick is playing exactly to his town meta, where he is posting good reads, good takes, with good logic and being active.

Yume's opening posts contained a towntell I don't want to disclose, but also she has since shown some of her more signature traits (ahhh, I'm not in a headspace where I can describe this in a way that isn't rude--the traits aren't bad but I don't have a way to word the traits which doesn't

sound

bad).

Maid Cafe I admit is basically just gut. (Tho that said they're not partnered with MathBlade and they're not partnered with Radical Rat, so if my reads on MB and RR are correct, town by proxy.)

MMR is showing towntells from all three heads. Their views are reasonable, but not too perfect. Flawed, but more good than not. And the dissonance isn't faked, yet is not dissonance pointing to a scum alignment. Their stances, their posts, all show the perspective of three town players who have some similar takes but haven't gotten 100% on the same page, in a way that is basically just town.

furtiveglance is not posting the way he did in Datisi's Maid Cafe, where he was a serial killer. His posting is entirely different tonality and content-wise. His approach is self-evidently different, with him being basically...doing entirely different things. This one I probably can explain better but I shouldn't need to because Datisi's Cafe should still be fresh in people's minds so it should be easy enough to see what he was like there and how he isn't that, here.

Enchant I'm like 75% (give or take 5%) sure this is his town meta.

T-Bone is mostly just gut. (With a side of I don't think his hop onto me was scum--just dumb.)


Child of Fairies has no posts so being null needs no explanation.

Radja I don't really like the content of, but not enough to be strongly scum. PoE is a good slot-in, probably, but not entirely sure.

Bunnyonce, Greeting's posts are

good

, but look exactly like what I would expect scum-Greeting to be doing this game: being reasonable and logical enough to not be seen as town, but being passive enough to not be town enough to get nightkilled. Playing in a way that is, so to speak: "safe". Not being too confrontational, not being too vocal, being reasonable but not front and center with it.
Aisa I have no familiarity with but I get the same vibe: playing safe. In multiball. Not too town, but not too scum. Deliberately not performing at the highest level, but also not deliberately putting in too little.

Radical Rat, this is a more recent read but I want a full post to explain this.

Korina, I explained why his post was a scumclaim: it didn't have the content of an RVS post, but was made without reading. If it had been an RVS post it'd have been town, or if it had been done after reading it'd have been town, but a reasonless vote without reading is why it was scum.
MathBlade I have devoted countless posts towards why he's scum and there's countless more to follow.

professotic has tictac not showing any of their town traits, while showing scum traits.
Professor is also playing to TSE's scumplay with their tone, phrasing, etc.
Both of them are posting reads and reasons that have the semblance of their towngame, but are lackluster compared to the real thing. Cheap imitations, made by having some genuine reads but knowing that they still have to fake things.

Frozen Angel I am pretty sure is in her scumgame. It has to do with her opening focus and what she was doing, her tone, her wording, etc. Her areas of thinking are key, and the points she is/isn't raising. This is something that I DO intend to explain--when I actually have done the work to bump that 90% up to 100%. FA is definitely in ONE meta.

{FA, professotic, MathBlade} have all protected each other and all to varying degrees have suspicion on {Radja, Bunnyonce, Radical Rat}.
{Bunnyonce, Radical Rat, Radja} have all given clear signs they're not scum with any of FA/professotic/MathBlade, but they all fit as scum with each other.

5/6 of them have shown suspicion on me that kicked off after my "approximately 6 scum" post--indicating that they thought I was scum, by having TMI.


These are as clear as views get. There's no ambiguity to be had. I've not wavered on the FA read like MathBlade has implied. My read there--scumread--has been quite consistent the entire time; implying otherwise is disingenuous as fuck.

[mastina]

Fair that you think that but I am more wanting to figure out the size of the teams rather than particular roles. If I can find the teams I can find the people. And if I can find the people then that’s where I will be good.

Anyone here can speak to me finding roles without fishing rather easily. So I guess I am people fishing more than role fishing.
Trying to set up my vision to speak on the right targets.

I am keeping my scope on you Mastina.

Don’t worry. I don’t think I will be yeeted this game.
Call it a good hunch.

I think the Mastina problem takes care of herself.

And I don’t think Mastina escapes.
I don’t have to have Mastina today.

I think you’re panicking here without reading between the lines.
I am not interested in a fight that can be resolved later when I have ample evidence to explain my case.

Mastina while she’s clearly scum to me I don’t think will be a problem.
If I die and she’s not dead then full steam ahead imho.
But until then I can watch, wait, and see.

We vibin
We rollin

Because it’d end up being a page and page shit fest today and I think there’s more ways to be productive.
———-
Where I want you
———-
Where you are
If you get my jist

You’re either elimmed or I get to E-1 I claim then you’re elimmed.

I am 95% sure you are scum here because you haven’t seen the many many many hints if you are scum as to just how dead you are if you some how successful in miselimming me.

If you’re town on that 5% odds you are, back the fuck off. Now.
A good half if not more realizes exactly what I am doing here Mastina.
You are quite literally dead wrong pretty soon if you don’t re-evaluate.
It’s only a matter of when, not if.

if I become tunnel me it’s even more disastrous than usual for my tunnel game. If that doesn’t spell out

exactly

why I am playing this game the way I am and why I want people to provide that overview it will become painfully apparent.

Like you’re walking in a heavenly bakery and calling it hell bad.

I am giving your slot a chance to be sorted.

And if she doesn’t may the mod have blessing on our souls

I am also being deliberate in trying *not* to be the focus of attention believe it or not.

Again my posts are cooking and I know Titus is busy but that post I asked you to show her hopefully will explain a lot if you’re town. Or will at least point her at things she needs to see if she is town.
And if I am dead tomorrow *whelp*

I wanna cry at how close you are to seeing something.
Like if you’re town you’re like *right there* if you can see the itty bitty pieces of what’s there then look at those posts for the itty bitty pieces and why what Mastina is doing even giving her the benefit of the doubt she is town is so destructive.
I WANT to not have to make any more posts or as little as possible for days.

And most importantly of all:

Ask me on Day 2 (not Dusk 2) if I live. Then if it’s still scum influenced I’d be worried.

If I flip before MathBlade does, look at these series of posts when MathBlade inevitably tries to pivot his claim away from these breadcrumbs of what his role is when he realizes he was trying to claim MY role as his.

[mastina]

You have not tried to explain the game state or what I am doing.

Btw the folks that have said I am ignoring them/not responding to them/not explaining things/etc. are also being disingenuous as fuck and hard-scum for it because no fucking shit I've not responded to everything, I have had a hellish half a week or so which is looking to only get worse.

I've literally spent OVER EIGHT FUCKING HOURS on mafia today.

I literally said an hour ago that I had ran out of time.

And all of that, and I didn't get caught up.

I didn't get to respond to everything.

This game is 42 pages long--
I've read ~25 of those pages.

No fucking shit that I've not explained the gamestate because

I don't know what the gamestate is

--that requires BEING CAUGHT UP, the thing that I am TRYING to do self-evidently but have quite obviously not achieved.

So saying I haven't done this is scummy as fuck from you because you fucking KNOW this.

[mastina]

I'm either a Day 2 or Dusk 2 day vig.

Okay not my role but I don't believe that to be a town role; I think that's a scum role for one specific reason:

¤

Solar Cult and Lunar Cult

- These are the two scum factions.

They have nonstandard factional abilities

A D2 dayvig sounds a lot like a nonstandard factional ability to me!

[mastina]

I know that saying this secures me as the elimination because if I were the one READING it, I'd call it scum AtE, especially since it is a very un-mastina-like thing to do. (And yes, that saying this, literally all of it, doesn’t make it any less scum.)

But to be honest.
Right now I'm not feeling like pretending to be mastina.

Or rather, I don’t want to feel boxed in to pretending to be what I know mastina is. I don’t have the time I wanted to talk about this, but I had a thought of,
"Why do I even bother."
I had the urge to post that, but a voice told me, "hey, that's not a thought that mastina should have, don't display it publicly".

And it's not!

It doesn't fit my style as either alignment. I don’t post that way as scum, I don't post that way as town, it's a very foreign concept to the mastina persona.

But I don’t feel like pretending to match the mastina persona right now.

I know that I have been in my towngame the entire time, and to briefly go back into the mastina persona:
Genuinely, if you are town, you NEVER get to EVER say you can read me again, EVER, if you scumread me. This is Genuinely one of my towniest games of all time, and if you can't see that, you don’t fucking know how to read me. And never pretend you can, because this isn’t an unusual game from me. This IS me.

Well, prior to this post, at least. But this single not-mastina post does not erase that my entire play prior to this WAS mastina. So if you thought that my content prior to this post wasn't me as town: NEVER claim that you can read me again. I will quote this post every. Single. Time. And will NOT let you forget.

But slipping back out of mastina mode, I had those thoughts.
"Why do I even try."
"What's the point of trying."
"I don’t know why I bother."
And even,
"I give up."

mastina never gives up. It's literally against her fundamental philosophy.

Scumastina believes in fighting to the bitter end. Even when she's literally confscum, she believes that the game isn’t over until the last scum dies. And if she's the last scum, she might know that she has a 0% chance of winning, but for good sport, she refuses to surrender and makes the town still work for the inevitable victory.
And in multiball, she has extra incentive to fight. If she goes down, her scumteam is pretty much fucked. (Multiball2 is notably an exception to this rule, because I was negative utility there. It was my belief that we couldn't win with me alive, so I needed to die. After setting FL up for success, obv.)

Town mastina is relentless. She is conviction personified. Absolute faith in herself to be right, no matter what. Being proven wrong isn’t a setback. And new evidence doesn't change prior reads, barring extreme circumstances.
She pushes, continuously, hard, with absolute strength and resolve, with the belief that she is right.
Literally every game recently, a song has had some of the lyrics play through my mind, a personification of my mindset:
"And I am VINDICATED. I am selfish, (I'm not wrong), I'm right, I know I'm right, I've been that way all along". (Not the exact lyrics of the song, mind you; my mental paraphrase of it with all alterations is me claiming the song as mine.)

So when I say mastina never gives up, I mean it. She never does. Regardless of her alignment. The thought of giving up is foreign to her.

But I don't feel like putting on the mastina persona right now, because with how much shit I'm going through, I just DO feel like giving up.

I've literally broken every promise I made to myself for mafia games. I've skipped working out, slacked off on work, am typing in a mafia game rather than working on my novel or keeping up to date on the discord servers I frequent. I haven't streamed, done art, played league or tft (I literally missed out on a full week of tft quests, which guarantees I don’t get the T3 emote) or the new Disney Dreamlight event.

My life has been pretty much exclusively games (which shows if you do a site search--when was my last non-game post? When was my last not-ongoing mafia post?), and I am angry. I am tired. I am frustrated. I am exhausted.

The mastina persona is in particular furious, but I don’t have the ability to muster forth the will to type out that rage. (Oh there’s definitely facets who want me to. But I have the steering wheel, not them, so I'm not.)

There is just physical, mental, and especially emotional, fatigue going on.

So I just don’t feel like trying anymore.

I know that it’s not a mastina thing to do, but I want to say it anyway:

Objectively, I know that MathBlade's way of claiming is probably town, that there are signs of him not being scum, and importantly: that scum are among those who say it's SvS, those who weakly say it's TvT without trying to defuse it unless they have a good reason they can't (e.g. Titus is town, with this belief, but swamped), and those on the sidelines, with a few who are also scum taking the most convenient stance for them.

But subjectively, I feel like MB was crumbing my type of role (by the way--not claiming. Fuck that.), not a killing role, and that his claim fits as a modified factional nightkill, and that 90+% of his posting is scum.

Plus, without him, the options for scum are rather slim.
My locktowns are NEVER scum here. PPF, Yume, etc. Are all never scum.

And most of my townreads, I feel quite strongly about.

So like, the scum pool is quite small.

I know that objectively I should listen to objectivity, but I don't have a direction, so I just don’t know what to do and feel like giving up.

[mastina]

(The irony is not lost on me that normal mastina would see the post I just made as scum, believe me. I am quite aware of the sheer irony of how I would be pushing myself for making that post, in spite of me knowing that it’s town, and that me talking about it would make me even more sure it came from scum. The likes of Roden are probably laughing their asses off at the karmic irony.)

[mastina]

Oops left out ecples of locktown thatre never wrong.
Yume is always town, PPF always town, etc.
They're never ever scum.

[mastina]

(The irony is not lost on me that normal mastina would see the post I just made as scum, believe me. I am quite aware of the sheer irony of how I would be pushing myself for making that post, in spite of me knowing that it’s town, and that me talking about it would make me even more sure it came from scum. The likes of Roden are probably laughing their asses off at the karmic irony.)

So the thing you maybe don't see is that you were already doing it.

I'm going to remind you of my philosophy to scum hunting, not so that we can argue, but so that maybe you could see what I see. Not every post is alignment indicative. Most posts a player makes are NAI, and what separates town and scum is finding the few that are.

Here's what I clocked very early from the game, before you described what you described in 1097. It is clear to me you have a vision of what town!Mastina needs to look like, and you are trying to make every post you make conform to that vision. If you are town, I would say needlessly. But you kinda voiced what I was observing all along.

What separates this for me from being something that is NAI, is your post #729 where you cite your first two posts of the game as some part of your master plan to catch scum. And I think you know what I know, that you were trying to play this up as something town!Mastina does. I don't know if you believe it for real. But I think you believe that other people would believe it, and that's why you made those parts of #729.

Normally I wouldn't sit here and explain to you why you're scum, because one way or another you know the truth. But maybe if we're to salvage the game in case you are town, considering another point of view on you might be helpful.

To me, #729 and some other bits of Mastina's posting shows me that she is trying to play the part of town!Mastina rather than be a town player. I think it's well documented how much Mastina believes in meta, and I think she believes in it so much that she feels forced to try and project her meta onto her gameplay. This isn't necessarily scum-indicative on its own, I think Mastina would do it to some extent as town. But from my point of view it crossed the line of town!Mastina needing to play a certain way to scum!Mastina needing everyone else to see a certain vision of her play.

Hopefully that bit of insight helps others too who are not sure what to think about Mastina.

This would be a good point if not for one crucial factor you leave out.

Living up to the concept of mastina is not exclusive to scumastina. (That, aside from how scumastina genuinely doesn't care to try to be town mastina, because scumastina has her own style which works in spite of being night/day different. Scumastina doesn’t even try to look like town mastina, because she knows that town mastina is a liability to try and mimic. I don't need to look like town as scum, nor do I need to effort nor force an elimination. All I need to do is not be the default elimination for a day, and let the town eliminate town. I don't need to push town, nor power town S scum. Because just the bare minimum works better as scum.)

I have a strong drive to live up to the ideal of mastina as town, too. Because mastina is an IDEA, a CONCEPT.
mastina is a philosophy.

The philosophy is different as different alignments. Scumastina, find the easiest least effort path to victory where I can be the laziest.

Town mastina, to be a charismatic unwavering force of nature. Unrelenting. Never giving up on true beliefs, and holding plenty of them.

I always feel the pressure of trying to live up to the expectation, and usually I do.

But this he'll week, I just can't.

I give up on being mastina.

[mastina]

(The irony is not lost on me that normal mastina would see the post I just made as scum, believe me. I am quite aware of the sheer irony of how I would be pushing myself for making that post, in spite of me knowing that it’s town, and that me talking about it would make me even more sure it came from scum. The likes of Roden are probably laughing their asses off at the karmic irony.)

So the thing you maybe don't see is that you were already doing it.

I'm going to remind you of my philosophy to scum hunting, not so that we can argue, but so that maybe you could see what I see. Not every post is alignment indicative. Most posts a player makes are NAI, and what separates town and scum is finding the few that are.

Here's what I clocked very early from the game, before you described what you described in 1097. It is clear to me you have a vision of what town!Mastina needs to look like, and you are trying to make every post you make conform to that vision. If you are town, I would say needlessly. But you kinda voiced what I was observing all along.

What separates this for me from being something that is NAI, is your post #729 where you cite your first two posts of the game as some part of your master plan to catch scum. And I think you know what I know, that you were trying to play this up as something town!Mastina does. I don't know if you believe it for real. But I think you believe that other people would believe it, and that's why you made those parts of #729.

Normally I wouldn't sit here and explain to you why you're scum, because one way or another you know the truth. But maybe if we're to salvage the game in case you are town, considering another point of view on you might be helpful.

To me, #729 and some other bits of Mastina's posting shows me that she is trying to play the part of town!Mastina rather than be a town player. I think it's well documented how much Mastina believes in meta, and I think she believes in it so much that she feels forced to try and project her meta onto her gameplay. This isn't necessarily scum-indicative on its own, I think Mastina would do it to some extent as town. But from my point of view it crossed the line of town!Mastina needing to play a certain way to scum!Mastina needing everyone else to see a certain vision of her play.

Hopefully that bit of insight helps others too who are not sure what to think about Mastina.

This would be a good point if not for one crucial factor you leave out.

Living up to the concept of mastina is not exclusive to scumastina. (That, aside from how scumastina genuinely doesn't care to try to be town mastina, because scumastina has her own style which works in spite of being night/day different. Scumastina doesn’t even try to look like town mastina, because she knows that town mastina is a liability to try and mimic. I don't need to look like town as scum, nor do I need to effort nor force an elimination. All I need to do is not be the default elimination for a day, and let the town eliminate town. I don't need to push town, nor power town S scum. Because just the bare minimum works better as scum.)

I have a strong drive to live up to the ideal of mastina as town, too. Because mastina is an IDEA, a CONCEPT.
mastina is a philosophy.

The philosophy is different as different alignments. Scumastina, find the easiest least effort path to victory where I can be the laziest.

Town mastina, to be a charismatic unwavering force of nature. Unrelenting. Never giving up on true beliefs, and holding plenty of them.

I always feel the pressure of trying to live up to the expectation, and usually I do.

But this he'll week, I just can't.

I give up on being mastina.

Oh worth mentioning:
You're right about one thing tho:

I know my meta best.

I know me better than everyone else.

When I am scum, I know exactly how scum I am. I know that I am not playing to my towngame. I might--justifiably--feel like certain aspects of my play are dead on mimicking my towngame, but while I might fake a post saying as much, no, I never truly believe that I have perfected a town-mastina guise as scumastina. Not only would doing so be detrimental even if I succeeded, but also the task is literally impossible.

You cannot mimic the full package of my towngame. It’s literally impossible. I fundamentally think differently as town versus scum. Language use, emotions, everything is night and day different. (We suspect that it’s literally different facets playing, but since we haven't had a scumgame since our plurality breakthrough, we wouldn't know yet. We'll have to rand scum to actually test that.)

If it's quite literally an entirely different person playing when town vs. Scum, then that person cannot fully pretend to be the other. (Which is why we don’t actually try.)

So with that said:

We know our meta, and thus, we know that we were not outside of it. In fact, we're doubling down on this statement:

This is the towniest game that we have EVER played in our entire mafia career. We have NEVER been this more clearly town. EVER.

I can't manage to be mastina right now, but that doesn't change how I still know what my meta is, and how I was in my town meta more clearly than I have ever been before. Literally the towniest game I have EVER had.


So let me reiterate:
If I am eliminated, then EVERY town player has their reading rights on me revoked PERMANENTLY.
My not being able to be mastina doesn't remove that I was still clearly town in spite of struggling to be mastina. In fact it's quite literally the exact opposite.

So I will quote this in EVERY future game you play with me in where you so much as HINT at having me south as null.
I. Will. NOT. Let. You. Forget.

Because I am NOT having an "off game".
I'm not able to be mastina, but I AM able to be clearly town anyway.
This IS my town self.
Try to fucking pretend it wasn't as much as you'd like. I know myself better than you do. I know my meta better than you do. So I know that I was playing to my town meta here.
And thus, future you has ZERO wiggling room to claim otherwise.

If you can't see that I'm town here, you can't fucking see that I am town in ANY game. PERIOD. Because if you can't see me as town in the towniest game that I have ever had, you can't see me as town at all.

[mastina]

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{Dingle Dangle Scarecrow}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant}


CONFLICTED:
{Korina/MathBlade}


???
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

{Radja}
{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Frozen Angel, professotic}


MathBlade is a case where, genuinely, every single time I am away from the game, I think that he has to be town. Whenever I am away from the game thread, I think about his stances and think they come from town.

However, every time I am actually in the thread reading his posts: overwhelmingly, every part of me SCREAMS, "No. He's scum pretending to be that. A scum-MathBlade knows that town-him is unreasonable and is matching people's negative expectations of him, leaning into it. But he doesn't

actually

believe what he's saying."

So like. He still looks like scum. His posts look like town, but they look like him knowing what a town-him looks like and channeling all of that negative antitown energy into an actual nontown alignment.


Yume is ALWAYS town here. Anyone who has played with her and knows her meta should know that this is her town meta. Her entrance, her stances, her conviction, her stubbornness, her vindication, etc., all of that is town her through and through.
Past Present Future is always town here. This is Titus's towngame, but more importantly this is Nancy hard-spewed as town.
Save the Dragons's meta is night and day different between town and scum and this was his towngame.

Klick is basically just town, so him being Dingle Dangle Scarecrow makes him town.

The Yume/PPF/StD/DDS reads I request you follow in particular.

The rest I don't particularly care to, but I suppose since there's currently T-Bone suspicion I would very very strongly recommend you not pursue that.

Beyond those reads, to be honest, it's just *shrug*.

FA pretty sure is scum here tho.

[mastina]

But also I gave you my point of view Mastina, you can take it to heart or not.

To be honest it was probably a good post but when I realized you were saying I was scum I didn't bother to remember the majority of it since that instantly made the most important part of the post wrong.

[mastina]

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{Dingle Dangle Scarecrow}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant}


CONFLICTED:
{Korina/MathBlade}


???
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

{Radja}
{Bunnyonce, Radical Rat}

SCUM:
{Frozen Angel, professotic}


MathBlade is a case where, genuinely, every single time I am away from the game, I think that he has to be town. Whenever I am away from the game thread, I think about his stances and think they come from town.

However, every time I am actually in the thread reading his posts: overwhelmingly, every part of me SCREAMS, "No. He's scum pretending to be that. A scum-MathBlade knows that town-him is unreasonable and is matching people's negative expectations of him, leaning into it. But he doesn't

actually

believe what he's saying."

So like. He still looks like scum. His posts look like town, but they look like him knowing what a town-him looks like and channeling all of that negative antitown energy into an actual nontown alignment.


Yume is ALWAYS town here. Anyone who has played with her and knows her meta should know that this is her town meta. Her entrance, her stances, her conviction, her stubbornness, her vindication, etc., all of that is town her through and through.
Past Present Future is always town here. This is Titus's towngame, but more importantly this is Nancy hard-spewed as town.
Save the Dragons's meta is night and day different between town and scum and this was his towngame.

Klick is basically just town, so him being Dingle Dangle Scarecrow makes him town.

The Yume/PPF/StD/DDS reads I request you follow in particular.

The rest I don't particularly care to, but I suppose since there's currently T-Bone suspicion I would very very strongly recommend you not pursue that.

Beyond those reads, to be honest, it's just *shrug*.

FA pretty sure is scum here tho.

Whoops, Radical Rat got left out of that readslist. Fix'd.

[mastina]

I think mastina is rather obvious town at the moment and her wagon is really weak and based on things that most people aren't genuinely confident make her scum
In other words, it's really lazy

Yup!

And I maintain that there's probably lots of scum there!

Keeping in mind multiball, scum would have no reason to

not

be on the wagon because they'd think it'd be a consequence-free wagon where they wouldn't be suspected for it (boy oh boy are they in for a shock), but like:

Mastina (8)

Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic

, MMR, T-Bone,

Radical Rat

, Maid Cafe, Enchant [E-1!]

You might not find

all

the scum in this wagon, but you ARE going to find ~50-75% of them here. I suggest starting with the bolded.

[mastina]

But also I gave you my point of view Mastina, you can take it to heart or not.

I did want to add to this Mastina, you seem to think I'm town, therefore from your PoV my thoughts should be genuine even if I'm wrong, and there's an opportunity for us to bridge the divide.

Not worth it tbh.

I think you're town.

And if you being on my mislim gets you mislimmed down the line, then that's your fault not mine. I'll be dead by then. I've said I think you're town, but like. By eliminating me, you won't exactly have me around to defend you from having been on my mislim, now, will I?

I've given my reads, such as they are.

Virtually none of them seem to interest you and I don't care to make them interest you.
Convincing you just isn't worth the time/effort.

Working with you, maybe. But I'm not interested in really explaining my Yume/PPF/StD/DDS townreads. You don't trust me on those then you can't work with me. You want me to explain them, too bad. I'm not going to. They're so locked in that I'm not really considering entertaining anyone who isn't willing to trust me on them.

Beyond that, sure I can. If there's reads you want me to engage on beyond those, I guess I can, but like. I've already explained furtive, I already explained Enchant, you're not gonna get MORE from me than what I already gave on them.

[mastina]

Actually the flow chart says a lot of Mastina's behavior means she's town if you're not trying to confirm bias yourself.

It does, for the record.

But like. Not worth bothering to explain why.

When I said I was done being mastina I meant it. So that includes not bothering to explain why this is a mastina towngame. The flip will do the talking for me and prove that everyone claiming to be able to read me thinking I am scum, is either scum lying their asses off or town that was delusional. Because the people who actually

can

(the likes of PPF, Yume, DDS), have me as one of their strongest townreads.

[mastina]

I didn't comment on her emotions, I can't pretend to know what they are, and frustration is NAI.

Actually, frustration is far far far from NAI. There are frustrations that only appear as town, there are frustrations that appear more frequently as scum, and then there are rl frustrations that

in of themselves

are nai (being rl and all), but their

manifestation

is actually some of the most alignment-indicative things you can get.

Here they spew me town but it's not worth fighting about.

I've yet to misread Mastina in any game I've played with her over the years.

Apparently that was luck since you're looking at the towniest towngame I've ever had and calling it scum, so like. Whatever metrics you used were apparently flawed, since they can't see that I'm town here, so...

I'll be honest getting concerned by Mathblade. It may be recency bias, but last time I ignored red flags he ended up being scum. I keep having to correct him and point what I feel is obvious. I also can't believe I'm saying this but in his effort to meet Yume with the flow chart he's purposely reading it wrong. To be clear the flow chart is garbage, but that he's doing it wrong anyway...

(The flowchart is a bit outdated but is not actually garbage, the flowchart is more an idea than anything else, the idea being a process that boils down to: "scumastina can show any single town trait that a town mastina is more well known for, but can't display the entire package. Town mastina can't display the entire package, either, because the package is contradictory, but she displays a whole heck of a lot more of her town traits when town".
But I digress. I was quoting this post more to say,)

Not a bad take on MathBlade and more or less mirrors my own.
I know that a town-MathBlade can be this bad, but this

feels

like it's a scum-MathBlade PRETENDING to be this bad, a scum-MathBlade banking on the townreads from PRETENDING to be this tunneled.

[mastina]

By "everyone claiming to be able to read" you, are you referring to the people on your wagon that are strongly SRing you like Math and professotic?

You apparently didn't read very well.

everyone claiming to be able to read me

thinking I am scum

, is either scum lying their asses off or town that was delusional. Because

the people who actually

can

(the likes of PPF, Yume, DDS), have me as one of their strongest townreads

.

I don't see how that can be more clear?

The people claiming to be able to read me who have me as town are right, and accurate.
I believe those four players to be credible in their claims to be able to read me well. (Notably, you may note that furtive is not on that list in spite of him townreading me, because he lacks that credibility.)

I don't know the alignments of the people claiming to be able to read me who have me as scum--but since I am town, those claims are wrong. That leaves exactly two possibilities for them. They're scum lying their asses off or town whose metrics on how to read me were just outright wrong.

I've stated which players I feel to be which.

[mastina]

By the way, why is Bunny in the same tier as RR in your readslist?

Because both are likely scum, and probably partnered at that.

[mastina]

You're the only one who has articulated a reason I believe, for what it's worth Nancy. Everyone else who says she is town is hiding behind you imo

Nah. PPF, Yume, and DDS are all town. (StD is town aside from them but he isn't among the defenders.)

There's slots who are defending me that could be scum (furtive for instance), but are they? *shrug* (also furtive as an example, I have him as a townlean anyway in spite of him lacking the same credibility).

[mastina]

And as you know meta doesn't move me. I need Mastina to show me, and if she's town she will, and if she's scum she won't.

You apparently weren't listening when I said I was done being mastina.

I've no interest in showing you I'm town. I would've if I were still trying to be mastina but I honestly don't give a fuck anymore. If you can't see I'm town from what I gave already then it's really not worth bothering with. It doesn't matter to me--you're the one who has to live with the consequences for being part of a mastina mislim, not me.

I don't even have strong reads to leave behind, aside from the four townreads I have. I'd prefer the town not go after you, but even that read isn't nearly as certain as my four towniest reads.

[mastina]

If anything Yume and PPF are “tunnelled” Mastina is town if they are town.

For the record an actually thinking town MathBlade would realize that the players townreading me have much much better metrics to read me by than MathBlade does and would back down.

But MathBlade isn't thinking town here. That's not a guarantee he's scum mind you but it's still factual that if MathBlade were thinking town he'd have reason to reevaluate. So options are thinking scum, or unthinking town.

[mastina]

tell me why you think I'm scum without using the words 100% and 90% or meta

Well it is, but it's also where you've pushed and how you've pushed them. Separate from meta I find your worldview on this game to be that of a scum player.

Granted your meta says said worldview is your scum meta, but even disregarding meta your worldview just looks like scum. Everywhere you are focusing, everywhere you are pushing, it just doesn't look town and does look scum.

[mastina]

why t-bone has to face consequences of a mastina mislim if its a mislim hypothetically?

He said it himself; he was a tipping point in the wagon. Given that I am town, and my strong defenders were VERY adamant about me being town, and that I have dozens upon dozens of posts not only showing it but also where I gave reads and reasons, means that saying I wasn't town with those things has consequences.

T-Bone does not have the fire behind his posts that the players actually with a reasonably high chance of being scum on my wagon do. He is more subdued than professotic or MathBlade or Frozen Angel or even RR for instance, but by joining the likes of them on my wagon, he puts himself square into the line of fire for mislim fodder down the line.

Which, I mean. He's not omniscient so he doesn't know it will happen. But me being down and me having a good read of how gamestates are likely to develop--I know that he's incredibly likely to gain flak sooner rather than later (midgame give or take) for it. He's one of the towniest votes on my wagon if not the towniest. But I am the only person who thinks that, and by virtue of me being the mislim, I won't be around to defend him. And other players don't see him as town as I do. Because to an outsider perspective, T-Bone's hop-on looks "weak", and "opportunistic". It's not, but I can't stop them from thinking it is after I'm gone.

[mastina]

I feel like RR and Bunny haven't interacted that much that could point to them being partnered.

That's

exactly

why they ARE (likely) partnered.

No seriously.

This is a multiball game.

"haven't interacted that much in ways that can point to them being partnered" is exactly what scum in multiball strive for.

Individually, I think both have decent odds for being scum;
Neither of them look like they're not scum with the other;
With neither as being a particular point of pressure, that kind of interaction suggests both scum together. Bunnyonce's vote on RR is fairly halfhearted especially given the wagon on me and no real effort from Bunnyonce to dismantle it. So the RR vote is fairly performative. Bunnyonce wasn't voting RR while there was a more competitive gamestate with multiple wagons, when RR votes had a chance to gain traction. Bunnyonce's vote on RR happened only after my elimination gained enough momentum to become almost an inevitabilitBree.

[mastina]

Because to an outsider perspective, T-Bone's hop-on looks "weak", and "opportunistic".

I feel like you're one of the first people to describe his vote as this.

Sure, because it wouldn't happen on D1.

It'd happen in the D3-D6 range, thereabouts. Someone would go back to the mastina mislim, note T-Bone's presence there, compare that to others, and think those things, with the time removing the clarity from the wagon I have now.

Currently nobody might say that, but down the line they would.

[mastina]

If I ever host a Theme game, I am doing post caps.

For the record, that wouldn't actually impact me.

I have less posts than you would assume. T-Bone literally has more than me. 6/16 players have higher post counts than me. I'm literally only the seventh-most-active poster in the game.

I just always SEEM like the most active poster because I'm like a signal boost for activity in games.

Every game I am in causes the actual top posters to post more, and there's a night and day difference in posting activity between pre-mastina-death and post-mastina-death; activity drops off a cliff after I die because I am a source of activity in spite of it not being reflected in post count.

That's one of the reasons I like being mastina normally. That's the mastina affect. mastina's approach makes people be forced to be more active, basically. I just can't keep being her right now.

[mastina]

I see, though why would people want to do this?

Have you played in a mafia game's midgame?

People don't necessarily

want

to do it, they just DO it. In the midgame. At a time people are beginning to look back at the earlier sections of the game to try and improve the town's fortunes, either clutching a win or staving off a defeat. In the midgame, there is enough distance from the original events to forget current feelings on the subject, and to forget the context around a situation, and to make it easier to accidentally take things out of context and view them too hard in isolation, which makes nuances to situations become harder to detect.

Lack of nuance, lack of accuracy in reading T-Bone's alignment, because to read T-Bone as town from his push on me requires a LOT of nuance. Nuance lost in the midgame thanks to distance from D1.

Also, would you say that scum would be more likely to attempt that?

Situationally? Sure. But in general it's usually town.

Town players in the midgame go back to review the earlier sections of the game.

D1 is currently the current game, but during the midgame, D1 will be "the earlier sections".
So in the midgame, they will go back and look.

It's not like players are immediately on D2 going to instantly gun for T-Bone--of course they wouldn't. D2 has D1 still fresh in their minds. They wouldn't have forgotten the nuances yet. But come ~D4 or so, and with how goldfish town players' memories are, yeah, they'll have forgotten the nuances behind T-Bone town. And it's at

that

point they'd see it as opportunistic and weak. Even though it's neither.

[mastina]

If we are scum, why wouldn't we want to yeet you out of the game instead?

All it'd take is you doubting that we'll flip town for you to want to avoid being on the wagon, especially considering RR is already on there.

Scum piling onto a mislim tends to reflect poorly on the scum after the mislim flips.

You not being on my wagon doesn't mean my wagon won't go through.

[mastina]

(By the way, is it NAI for him to do this?)

Oh certainly!

There's basically five MathBlade models.

1: MathBlade is scum, and tries to convince me he is town. This is the least-common of the five, which is ironic, because it's the most effective at deceiving me. But as scum, MathBlade genuinely doesn't think to do this most of the time. Mostly trivia tho because we're not in this world.
2: MathBlade is town, and tries to convince me he is town. When this happens, I tend to think it's the first model, which is ironic because the first model is something he almost never does. Mostly trivia tho because we're not in this world.
3: MathBlade is town, and is convinced I am scum. He becomes irrationally certain of it and will not budge.
4: MathBlade is scum, and panics at my suspicion on him.
5: MathBlade is scum, and pretends to be the third model--he knows how irrational his town self is, so he plays into the bit, exaggerating it slightly and embracing the push.
(4 and 5 tend to go hand-in-hand, but are not fully one and the same.)

Objectively I realize the third has a quite high likelihood of being true.
But like--by gut, I feel like the fifth is the actual truth because it

feels

like MathBlade is exaggerating.

Yes, I know that anything "MathBlade surely couldn't think this as town", actually MathBlade can.
But it's like--it's not so much that MathBlade can't think those things, so much as it is, I feel like a town MathBlade wouldn't.
That there's a chance he did, but everything he does is just that: a chance of being MathBlade-town, but feeling statistically unlikely.

The statistical unlikelies pile up.

Say something was 40% from MB town.
A different thing is 40% from MB town.
A different thing is 35% from MB town.
A different thing is 45% from MB town.

Those begin to add up and create a world where in order for MB to be town, you have to believe that MathBlade did them

all

as town, rather than just one or two.

And those things are quite numerous. MathBlade's posts feel like he's aware of his meta's worse aspects and deliberately exaggerating them for the towncred and to get away with being anti-town. That he's aware he could do all the things he is doing as town, so is doing them, even though if he were town he wouldn't actually be doing them.

That's what he feels like.

[mastina]

@mastina did you miss this post?

I saw it, it just had nothing worth engaging with.

I haven't interacted much with a lot of people. We can't ALL be scum

That is true!

I also don't have scumreads on a lot of people!

You can only be scum with people in my limpool;
Furthering that, you can only be scum with people who don't have antibuddy associatives with you (from you or from them).

That list is considerably smaller than "a lot of people".

That said, that does raise the question--

why

haven't

you interacted much with a lot of people???

The Radical Rat I know does. Like, REALLY does. Like, really REALLY does. Like, does basically exclusively precisely that. Interacting with most, or even all, of the players in extensive detail.

So like--admitting that you haven't? Basically a scumclaim.

[mastina]

Mastina has fucking tells when she’s pushed as town and when she is pushed as scum and she’s in antispew.

Oh I certainly do have those tells!

And if you're not scum faking a town tunnel, then this game will prove that you have no fucking idea what those tells actually are!

But, by feeling I just feel like you are scum pretending to tunnel, rather than town actually tunneling.

[mastina]

Mastina you wanna claim?

If you want my claim,

Spoiler: you need look no further than this post:

I know that saying this secures me as the elimination because if I were the one READING it, I'd call it scum AtE, especially since it is a very un-mastina-like thing to do. (And yes, that saying this, literally all of it, doesn’t make it any less scum.)

But to be honest.
Right now I'm not feeling like pretending to be mastina.

Or rather, I don’t want to feel boxed in to pretending to be what I know mastina is. I don’t have the time I wanted to talk about this, but I had a thought of,
"Why do I even bother."
I had the urge to post that, but a voice told me, "hey, that's not a thought that mastina should have, don't display it publicly".

And it's not!

It doesn't fit my style as either alignment. I don’t post that way as scum, I don't post that way as town, it's a very foreign concept to the mastina persona.

But I don’t feel like pretending to match the mastina persona right now.

I know that I have been in my towngame the entire time, and to briefly go back into the mastina persona:
Genuinely, if you are town, you NEVER get to EVER say you can read me again, EVER, if you scumread me. This is Genuinely one of my towniest games of all time, and if you can't see that, you don’t fucking know how to read me. And never pretend you can, because this isn’t an unusual game from me. This IS me.

Well, prior to this post, at least. But this single not-mastina post does not erase that my entire play prior to this WAS mastina. So if you thought that my content prior to this post wasn't me as town: NEVER claim that you can read me again. I will quote this post every. Single. Time. And will NOT let you forget.

But slipping back out of mastina mode, I had those thoughts.
"Why do I even try."
"What's the point of trying."
"I don’t know why I bother."
And even,
"I give up."

mastina never gives up. It's literally against her fundamental philosophy.

Scumastina believes in fighting to the bitter end. Even when she's literally confscum, she believes that the game isn’t over until the last scum dies. And if she's the last scum, she might know that she has a 0% chance of winning, but for good sport, she refuses to surrender and makes the town still work for the inevitable victory.
And in multiball, she has extra incentive to fight. If she goes down, her scumteam is pretty much fucked. (Multiball2 is notably an exception to this rule, because I was negative utility there. It was my belief that we couldn't win with me alive, so I needed to die. After setting FL up for success, obv.)

Town mastina is relentless. She is conviction personified. Absolute faith in herself to be right, no matter what. Being proven wrong isn’t a setback. And new evidence doesn't change prior reads, barring extreme circumstances.
She pushes, continuously, hard, with absolute strength and resolve, with the belief that she is right.
Literally every game recently, a song has had some of the lyrics play through my mind, a personification of my mindset:
"And I am VINDICATED. I am selfish, (I'm not wrong), I'm right, I know I'm right, I've been that way all along". (Not the exact lyrics of the song, mind you; my mental paraphrase of it with all alterations is me claiming the song as mine.)

So when I say mastina never gives up, I mean it. She never does. Regardless of her alignment. The thought of giving up is foreign to her.

But I don't feel like putting on the mastina persona right now, because with how much shit I'm going through, I just DO feel like giving up.

I've literally broken every promise I made to myself for mafia games. I've skipped working out, slacked off on work, am typing in a mafia game rather than working on my novel or keeping up to date on the discord servers I frequent. I haven't streamed, done art, played league or tft (I literally missed out on a full week of tft quests, which guarantees I don’t get the T3 emote) or the new Disney Dreamlight event.

My life has been pretty much exclusively games (which shows if you do a site search--when was my last non-game post? When was my last not-ongoing mafia post?), and I am angry. I am tired. I am frustrated. I am exhausted.

The mastina persona is in particular furious, but I don’t have the ability to muster forth the will to type out that rage. (Oh there’s definitely facets who want me to. But I have the steering wheel, not them, so I'm not.)

There is just physical, mental, and especially emotional, fatigue going on.

So I just don’t feel like trying anymore.

I know that it’s not a mastina thing to do, but I want to say it anyway:

Objectively, I know that MathBlade's way of claiming is probably town, that there are signs of him not being scum, and importantly: that scum are among those who say it's SvS, those who weakly say it's TvT without trying to defuse it unless they have a good reason they can't (e.g. Titus is town, with this belief, but swamped), and those on the sidelines, with a few who are also scum taking the most convenient stance for them.

But subjectively, I feel like MB was crumbing my type of role (by the way--not claiming. Fuck that.), not a killing role, and that his claim fits as a modified factional nightkill, and that 90+% of his posting is scum.

Plus, without him, the options for scum are rather slim.
My locktowns are NEVER scum here. PPF, Yume, etc. Are all never scum.

And most of my townreads, I feel quite strongly about.

So like, the scum pool is quite small.

I know that objectively I should listen to objectivity, but I don't have a direction, so I just don’t know what to do and feel like giving up.

It's in there! You should try reading it.

[mastina]

Like professor FA and RR are my ride or die towns

Funny those are the slots topping my kill chart.

Are all the names there scum?

I'd like to think so!

But there's no world where they're all town.

In the event you happen to be town MathBlade, quote your 1650 postgame and have a look at it for an assessment of your play this game.

Of course, you won't, because it ain't gonna be pretty and you'll try to delude yourself into thinking your play was better than it actually was, but like. If you are town rather than scum, in postgame you have to admit how shit your 1650 is.

[mastina]

Yume, please take a step back. I really worry about your health. This gamestate is not good.

Can confirm this btw--doing just this and taking a step back from the game?

So liberating.

It guaranteed my elimination, mind you!

But it was just so freeing to not give a damn anymore. To not feel the need to effort anymore. To post what I feel like, when I feel like it. Taking a step back genuinely saved my mental, physical, and emotional health. So like. Would recommend doing!

[mastina]

It's like Mastina is trying to threaten me into a town read lol

It's not a threat, it's a guarantee. I'm fairly prophetic about these sorts of things.

So like.

If I die D1 and around D4 players push you for your part in that--can't say I didn't warn you, because I did. It

will

happen. The players here right now insist it won't, because they are here right now. But in the future, it's basically always gonna happen because to remember not to go down that path is something townies can't keep up indefinitely.

There's a part of me that believes she's doing it out of spite to get one over on those of us with an incorrect read.

I mean--explicitly so, yes! I've been QUITE clear about my stance on this:

If you can't tell that I am town from what I have posted so far in the game, you don't deserve to. Ever. (Hope that wording's okay.) If you think you have any form of tell on me that comes to the conclusion I am scum--I know I'm town so no fucking duh, I am gonna be smug when you see the townflip.

I've gone through enough shit in one week that I, well and truly, don't give a damn.

There are things that I am obligated to do--share my thoughts on who I think is scum, share my thoughts on who I think is town.
Some stronger than others.

But putting any work into saving myself? Not among the things I'm obligated to do.

Every single vote on me has bullshit reasoning. Literally every single one of them. There are NO valid reasons to vote me, here. Even the "just end the day" logic, even the "this will continue tomorrow if not resolved today" logic, even the posts about it being content revolving around me making a toxic mindset?

Bullshit logic.

But while the reasoning used to vote me is absolute shit--literally none of it is worth responding to.
If I have other reasons to engage with a post with bullshit reasoning, I will still engage with the post.

But by default, just not worth the effort. You can't see I'm town, you don't deserve to. You claim you read me as scum, you have no fucking clue what you were talking about. I don't really care to prove it, because the flip does that for me. So, yes. Not bothering to try. And yes, out of spite.

My spite won't stop me from sharing reads.
But I've no interest in defending myself, not in of itself at least.

[mastina]

She had a minor FoS she ignored
She didn’t tunnel until I sussed her.

No, I was scumreading Korina from the getgo but one post was one post, there was nothing more to engage on until your replacement.

And from your very first post I called you scum.

I've reached a point where I'm not as sure anymore. You have some areas that look town, objectively you look like town tunneling, there's gamestate hints suggesting you could be town.

But like. The scum is still there and a lot looks like you pretending to be town tunneling rather than actually

being

town tunneling.
Does that mean you're actually scum, fucked if I know. But that's why you're an ambivalent read.

[mastina]

Yume has scum confidence equity on a town flip

You can continue to be wrong or you can consider how I have the second-most-extensive game history with Yume, just flipped town, and have told you that Yume is town, and the only player with more history than me is PPF who also has her as town.

Yume is town here. This is 200% her towngame.

[mastina]

Basically I'm not louder than MathBlade or Frozen Angel and I am not going to win their arguments that are explicitly set up to be 'specific' enough for them to argue out of when specificity has nothing to do with accuracy

(This is one reason both have a quite high chance of being scum btw--leaving enough room to backtrack after my townflip and try to pin the blame on me.)

[mastina]

Please explain how a read wall of statistics about me is moving away from me?

Basic reading comprehension, perhaps?

I've been very unambiguous about my current stance on you: full ambivalence.

You DO know the definition of ambivalence, right?

[mastina]

By the way, what is everybody's opinion of prof's pivot to Bunny?
-Rubella

Extra-scum.

Town-prof doesn't pivot there, at least not like that.

A town-prof either pivots from a townread on me, or doesn't pivot at all. Pivoting with a scumread on me isn't town, it's scum.

[mastina]

and moving seems to be mostly performative at this point

And what do you suppose that says about professotic, eh??? Eh???

Yaknow.

The slot which did exactly that???

[mastina]

Especially since every single defense of Mastina has been pretty awful and based on meta that isn't even accurate.

Actually you got that backwards:

Every single reason for scumreading me has been pretty awful, most based on meta that isn't even accurate.

As the person who knows my own meta best, I

could

prove it quite easily (I know the difference between a one-off game that was unusual, versus the norm; I know the situation behind each game and what was going on there; I know context others can't quickly pick up; I know how I have done everything possible to do as scum and viceversa at least once but which things appear more than once; etc.), but like. Not worth it.

I know the players who know my meta best that have it be right. Yume, Past Present Future, DDS,

potentially

Ydrasse. They have accurate meta reads on me and have accurate tells. (No, their reasons are not bullshit. I can vouch for their methods being right.)

I know the players who have my meta wrong.

[mastina]

Frozen Angel

mastina

, focus your efforts into making this happen please
I feel like this hits the sweet spot of 'lowest on your reads' and 'most likely to happen' on that wagon

To be honest, I'll vote any of
{professotic, Frozen Angel, Radical Rat},
Happily and readily. Where I'll join in on voting them in a heartbeat.

I'm willing to vote,
{Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship, Radja}.
Less optimistic in them being scum but none of them are really

bad

votes imo.

So like, sure, if there's any momentum there whatsoever, would swap to FA.

[mastina]

why arent you engaging with me again?

Because you're scum tbh.

Ironically I was just about to have doubt on your alignment but this post made me go "nah, don't go back on your read, FA is scum for it".

I don't believe that you as town take this approach to me.

[mastina]

beside prof scum read on you whats your reason to scum read prof?

I was scumreading professotic well before they scumread me.

So like.

Everything they've done, really.

Their pushes, their stances, their reads, their logic, their tone, their hydra, their activity levels, their interactions, literally everything.

[mastina]

Please take the weekend of quiet and town tell if you’re town.

Okay, MathBlade's town.

Ambivalence gone.

I realize that,

technically speaking

, by talking about my read on MathBlade I basically handed a scuMathBlade a guide into faking exactly this as town and adjusting his scumplay from being something only working temporary into something working longterm.
Technically speaking, that's theoretically possible.

But like.

To be honest: I don't think a scum MathBlade actually does.

[mastina]

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, MathBlade} (not quite locktowning MathBlade, but locktown is 100% town, town is like 90-98% town, so that's still ridiculously town)

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant}


??? (could be PoE scum, but hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Bunnyonce}
{Radja}

SCUM:
{Radical Rat}
{Frozen Angel, professotic}

[mastina]

Y'know.

If I were still pretending to be mastina, I'd double down on my professotic scumread by pointing out all the scum things they did, ignoring the town things that have given me doubt about the scumread there.

But like--I promised I was done pretending to be mastina at least for a while, so like.

Not gonna actually do that.

And instead will be honest with the truth:
professotic is an ambivalent slot for me.

I don't

really

wanna go through the 8 pages to go through all the reasons why I am ambivalent on the slot, but at the risk of abandoning a push on scum, I think I actually wanna do this:

VOTE: Radical Rat
Would also vote {Bunnyonce, Radja}.

I realize there are a lot of reasons for professotic to still be scum.

I don't feel actually confident enough to keep pushing there tho. mastina would, I am not.

[mastina]

Would also vote {Bunnyonce, Radja, Frozen Angel}.

Forgot to list FA there, but yes, I no longer have professotic as hard-scum. professotic is where MathBlade was until the townread there; ambivalent.

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, MathBlade} (not quite locktowning MathBlade, but locktown is 100% town, town is like 90-98% town, so that's still ridiculously town)

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant}


AMBIVALENT:
{professotic}


??? (could be PoE scum, but hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Bunnyonce}
{Radja}

SCUM:
{Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

[mastina]

I'm no longer happy with a professotic elimination--I

could

be giving up on a scum elimination (and will be kicking myself about it later if so--doubly so if my wagon goes through instead since I'll feel pretty fucking stupid if I gave up on a D1 scum elimination just to get eliminated as town), but I'm not going to pretend professotic doesn't have a quite significant chance of being town. Given that, I want to flip someone with a higher chance of being scum.

{Maid Cafe, Scarfmanship} are

possible

scum, but not guaranteed scum.

{Bunnyonce, Radja} have reasonable chances to be scum, but are not guaranteed scum. More scum than {Maid Cafe, Scarfmanship}, less scum than the scum tier.

{Radical Rat, Frozen Angel} are the only two reads I have confidence in flipping scum. My preference would be one of those two. I'll vote the above, but I'd prefer one of these two.

[mastina]

May I ask which head/alter (apologies struggling to remember the right word) is speaking?

These days we don't really know anymore to be honest, there's hundreds of us.

But today's our rest day, today's our dedicated Bree-time-day, today's the day we usually take off and chill, so like: not the facets who you'd associate with mastina. Not a single one of them is front and center.

The ones closest to the front are the ones under the Muse branch, since it was those under the Muse branch who normally are around on our day off.

So like. Under the old five-of-us system, not mastina, not Ace/Miss Efficiency, not Child, mostly not Mother, mostly Muse.

[mastina]

@mastina why is DDS town to you?

Because I have seen Klick as town in a multiball game and this is Klick as town in a multiball game. When I vibe with Klick's overall reads and direction and can track his thought process, it means he's probably town. If he were scum, I'd expect it to show in his posts, his reasons, his reads,

somewhere

, but his perspective just looks like everything I've seen from him as town.

And I know this is a multiball game--it doesn't look like scum that can half-legit scumhunt. I'd expect to still be able to see that in Klick's posting. But I don't. I don't see "could be scum in multiball with these things" from him, I just see

town

from him.

[mastina]

Well, for most of the game I hadn't been reading, which does put a bit of a damper on interactions. And that's just because I've been busy/low-energy, which happens sometimes regardless of alignment, especially in Larges.

Oh?

You say "I've been busy, which happens sometimes regardless of alignment".
Which player in the game have you put suspicion on for her when she was busy, in a way that put a damper on interactions?
(It's me.)

Color me skeptical about this being a valid excuse from you, when you're literally pushing me for doing the same thing you're now trying to use in your defense of yourself.

[mastina]

Bunny has now overtaken MMR in person I want to vote the most. More news at 11

For the record one of the reasons Maid Cafe actually has fairly good scum equity here is because neither MariaR nor beeboy are exactly passive players and yet in this game the hydra is incredibly passive.

To

some

extent, that can be attributed to rl factors + disengagement from the game. Where they don't

really

feel like playing, they don't have an investment, they don't have a strong incentive to be more active because they're not really interested in the game right now, so rl factors plus that = low-spoons game.

...But those are the factors keeping Maid Cafe from being closer to lockscum.

Because while the above is fully possible, I would expect either more sheeping from them with even less thoughts given, or less sheeping from them with more thoughts given. To have thoughts acted through on, to actually have some push.

Being midway between the two is the zone scum in multiball would thrive in, giving Maid Cafe a quite significant chance of being scum.

But of the players not north of null, Maid Cafe is still the towniest of them imo. Just, not townie enough to be a townread. (I suppose a better way to say that is the least-scum of the names in my PoE.)

Plus, PoE is a thing, here.

I have very good reasons for my locktown.
I have very good reasons for my town.
I feel

very

good about the vibes of T-Bone town. (Basically the only reason he's not higher is that I don't know his play here. Everything looks town, but I have no metric for if this is possible from him as scum.) And while there's some ambivalence there, I'm overall comfortable with the direction MMR have displayed in their thoughts, to be reasonably town.

Furtiveglance doesn't look like his SK play from Datisi's cafe, which feels promising on D1;
Enchant I feel is in his towngame albeit mostly by gut.

So with me feeling quite good about my townreads, there's not a lot of room left for the scum to be.

[mastina]

VOTE: professotic
I'm wiling to try it. I haven't liked their weird confidence, plus someone else said they were mafia based on the meta of which heads were posting.

For the record, this does look like a scum vote to me.

[mastina]

Would I be horribly out of line in thinking this looks kinda like Drapion going "Well, throwing a fit worked for mastina, maybe it'll save me too!"?

While this is not a bad thought, I feel like a town-RR would push it stronger.

[mastina]

is there still a wagon on us or just inertia?

There

was

, combination of past inertia + Professor pivoting off of voting me when there was no really good reason to + Professor AtE after being voted + Professor giving up + people feeling like the "I solved the game" was fake + probably more.

But now, I don't support a professotic wagon at all. While I'm not

sure

, I do think more likely town than not on your slot.

soo why does one make intentionally crappy push?

It wasn't a crappy push?

Frozen Angel is almost 100% scum here (small doubts now keep it from being the 100% I once thought it to be but I still lean as likely scum overall)--but I only have one vote, and Frozen Angel in particular has gotten no votes this game. Did you want me to vanity vote there? FA was not my priority, but I can state scumreads on players that are not my priority.

I have explained the read on FA multiple times, and if you want more people to look at it and give feedback, ask Ydrasse and Titus what they think of my FA stance this game.

[mastina]

Would I be horribly out of line in thinking this looks kinda like Drapion going "Well, throwing a fit worked for mastina, maybe it'll save me too!"?

While this is not a bad thought, I feel like a town-RR would push it stronger.

Do you think I'm scum WITH professotic?
Because if you think we're not aligned, what incentive does scum!me have to pull their punches?

This is not a real thought from you.

You know why?

Because this isn't a singleball game and you know it isn't.

What reason does a scum player

in a multiball

game have to pull their punches?

I shouldn't need to say that, now, should I?

But just in case you wanna try to spin it, I'll spell it out anyway.

Scum in multiball want to push hard enough to look town and not be eliminated, but not hard enough to get nightkilled by the enemy team. They still want to apply

some

pressure, to prevent their own faction from being the pressured. Whether it's better to pressure town or pressure other-scum is both player-dependent (different players think different things) and situation-dependent (big difference between town being hugely in the lead and one scumteam being unscathed while the other is on the verge of extinction), but applying some pressure, but not too much pressure, is exactly what scum in multiball want to do.

A town-you knows this.
A town-you pushes harder.

But you because you're scum are pretending to not know a Mafia 101 thing. It's literally the first rule of multiball.

[mastina]

3) one is not actually pushing but instead presenting thoughts on the thread without clear intention to push at that point

k. name a thought the post is presenting.

Frozen Angel was (and probably still is, altho not as 100% anymore) 100% in her meta for her towngame or her scumgame.

I've explained the concept many times already but to do it one more time.

I remembered Frozen Angel having a

very distinct

difference in her play between alignments. Similar to how StD has a night/day difference in his meta, Creature has a night/day difference in his meta, Bell has a night/day difference in his meta, etc. Some players just have one alignment be completely and entirely different to the other alignment. And FA is among them.

I recognized this.

But I didn't remember which was which at the time. (Now, I'm pretty sure it was the scum meta.)

It still was worth mentioning because if there's a player that you have a chance to get a 100% read on--you take it. It's either a free conftown, or a free confscum, and either outcome is good for the town. I believed it to be the scum alignment, and said it as much.

This really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. I don't see why you can't understand it. A 100% guaranteed to be accurate meta read on a player...if I could remember which alignment was which playstyle. I didn't, but I THOUGHT it was scum--and I still do.

[mastina]

she can explain 304 if she wants to tho.

I have, multiple times.

Spoiler: These are all posts doing exactly that.

Frozen Angel also has a town/scum meta that are night/day different. The asterisk to my read on FA here is that I don't know which is which.

I KNOW that FA has a night/day difference in her town meta and her scum meta.
I'm PRETTY sure that this is the night half, that this is the scum half, that this is FA as scum. But the asterisk on my read is that I might be remembering it backwards. I'm PRETTY sure I'm getting it right that this is the scum half tho.

Maybe mastina would like to finally confirm for us if she thinks FA is in her scum or town meta?

I already did, repeatedly.

My stance on FA I really don't get why y'all don't understand it, I'm being as clear as I can.

Frozen Angel has a night/day difference between her towngame and scumgame.
This is very damn strongly obvious. Her alignments could not be more distinct.

I

know

the differences IN the meta. I can identify the differences between one meta and the other. Just by her entrance into this game, I could tell FA was playing to her standard play as her alignment.
As in, if this is FA as town it is 100% her towngame;
If this is FA as scum it is 100% her scumgame.

If I have seen her towngame recently, I would instantly be able to tell her alignment in every game--because her play in this game is 100% matching to her meta, just by remembering what her towngame is, I'd be able to tell if it were matching that or matching the opposite.

If I had seen her scumgame recently, would instantly be able to tell her alignment in every game--because her play in this game is 100% matching to her meta, just by remembering what her scumgame is, I'd be able to tell if it were matching that or matching the opposite.

FA's metas are distinct enough that I can instantly tell when she is playing to one of them.

But my memory is rusted enough that it's not 100% on which is which.

I am like 90% sure that this is the scum meta.
But I am 100% sure that she is playing 100% to the typical meta for her current alignment.

If I had seen FA more recently, I'd be able to make the 90% into a 100% and that would make me 100% sure on her 100% playing 100% to that alignment.
But the 90% on a 100% is still pretty damn high.

The only thing that keeps it from being the most lockread of lockread is being rusty on FA gameplay.

Her alignment is transparently obvious if you've played with her recently. It is 100% her Xgame, where X = her alignment this game. If you've seen her play, and if you know about the night/day difference, then you should be able to tell what X equals, and therefore have a 100% guaranteed accuracy on FA.

I just haven't played with her recently--thus, I need to look it up.
When I actually do my research and refresh my memory on which meta is which, I will know FA's alignment 100% because she is 100% playing to her meta for her current alignment and I know the differences between her two metas.


OH I JUST FIGURED OUT A MUCH SIMPLER WAY TO EXPLAIN ALL OF THIS.

Imagine that we're talking about Creature.
Say you know that Creature posts a shitload as one alignment, and hardcore lurks as the other.
You see this trait present in the current game, where he is either posting a shitload, or he is hardcore lurking. Not an in-between. 100% posting a shitload, or 100% hardcore lurking.

You know that this stark contrast is alignment-indicative for Creature.

But you don't remember which is which.
You're

pretty

sure that the hardcore lurking meta is the scum one. So, say this is a game where Creature is hardcore lurking. You are thus

pretty

sure that Creature is scum. You KNOW that he has a night/day difference between the town/scum metas, you can SEE the difference in live time by seeing that he is hardcore lurking and know that hardcore lurking is either the brightest of bright days or the darkest of dark nights in being a huge alignment indicators.
But you're rusty on Creature and can't FOR SURE remember it, in spite of being pretty sure it's the scum meta.


...Does that make sense?

That's my read on FA.
I am

pretty

sure that this meta is FA's scum one. So I am

pretty

sure that FA is scum. I KNOW she has a night/day difference between the town/scum metas, can SEE the difference in live time. But I'm rusty on FA and can't FOR SURE remember it, in spite of being pretty sure it's the scum meta.

Frozen Angel I am pretty sure is in her scumgame. It has to do with her opening focus and what she was doing, her tone, her wording, etc. Her areas of thinking are key, and the points she is/isn't raising. FA is definitely in ONE meta.
These are as clear as views get. There's no ambiguity to be had. I've not wavered on the FA read. My read there--scumread--has been quite consistent the entire time; implying otherwise is disingenuous as fuck.

soo why does one make intentionally crappy push?

It wasn't a crappy push?

Frozen Angel is almost 100% scum here (small doubts now keep it from being the 100% I once thought it to be but I still lean as likely scum overall)--but I only have one vote, and Frozen Angel in particular has gotten no votes this game. Did you want me to vanity vote there? FA was not my priority, but I can state scumreads on players that are not my priority.

I have explained the read on FA multiple times, and if you want more people to look at it and give feedback, ask Ydrasse and Titus what they think of my FA stance this game.

3) one is not actually pushing but instead presenting thoughts on the thread without clear intention to push at that point

k. name a thought the post is presenting.

Frozen Angel was (and probably still is, altho not as 100% anymore) 100% in her meta for her towngame or her scumgame.

I've explained the concept many times already but to do it one more time.

I remembered Frozen Angel having a

very distinct

difference in her play between alignments. Similar to how StD has a night/day difference in his meta, Creature has a night/day difference in his meta, Bell has a night/day difference in his meta, etc. Some players just have one alignment be completely and entirely different to the other alignment. And FA is among them.

I recognized this.

But I didn't remember which was which at the time. (Now, I'm pretty sure it was the scum meta.)

It still was worth mentioning because if there's a player that you have a chance to get a 100% read on--you take it. It's either a free conftown, or a free confscum, and either outcome is good for the town. I believed it to be the scum alignment, and said it as much.

This really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. I don't see why you can't understand it. A 100% guaranteed to be accurate meta read on a player...if I could remember which alignment was which playstyle. I didn't, but I THOUGHT it was scum--and I still do.

why haven't I "updated" my read on FA?

Because my read is fucking accurate, that's why. Why update a read that's right? I know I'm right about my read there.

Why haven't I confirmed my 90% by looking for recent FA games to push it to 100%?

Because I fucking haven't had the time since before Saturday, that's why.
And before that, nobody had asked me to, so being a procrastinator that's highly a reactive player, I simply didn't think to. After people DID ask, I would love to have--but they didn't start asking until around Saturday.

On that note, more about my FA read in this game:
My FA read in this game is very similar to my StD read in the two concurrent games, Pokémon Gen1+2 and Gypyx's AI Upick.
I knew that StD had a night/day difference between his town play and his scumplay, but I didn’t remember which was which.
I could tell that he was playing to his meta, but I initially didn’t have the time to sort which was which. Like FA is this game, I had a fairly high level of confidence in remembering the tell differentiating his towngame and scumgame. But I didn’t have the time to research which was which, until much much later.

So while I knew that there was a night/day difference between his alignments, I didn't know for SURE which was which. My read on him was only about 90%, until I had the time to do the research.

That took weeks for me to find the time to do, but once I finally DID do the research, the 90% jumped to 100%.

Same story here.
I know FA has a night/day difference between her towngame and scumgame, same way StD did back then.
I am pretty sure that I know which is which, at 90%, same as back then for StD.
But I haven't had the time to do the research YET. It took weeks, closer to MONTHS, for me to find the time to do that for StD.

And here, it hasn't been weeks closer to months for FA, now, has it?
So, I WILL do the research. When I have the time. I just haven't yet, because, y'know.
Too much rl shit.

I'm pretty sure that this is the scum half for FA tho.

On the note of StD tho, since those games where I did the research, since then, I've not been wrong on my StD read since then. After I did my homework, my read rate on him became flawless.

Which is why I know that he's town this game.

I am sure that in a future FA game, I'll point to this game and say the same for her then as I'm saying for StD now.

(^This is a big one.)

It's about as clear as can be. I can explain it 20 different times but the read is exactly the same and the reasoning exactly the same: knowing FA's meta but not having it fully fully memorized as to which is which, but being pretty sure it's the scum meta.

I genuinely can't figure out what's so hard for that to be grasped?

Like. It's literally self-explanatory.

And I stand by it.

[mastina]

TicTac saying Wolf!Mastina would know once we claim the votes would go back on her or whatever.

Nah. I didn't stop pushing MathBlade after he claimed, what makes tictac think I'd have stopped after you claimed when I didn't stop after MathBlade claimed?

Your claim means nothing to me. Heck it might have even made me more sure you were scum and double down on that push.

It's the play that's important and the play has pivoted from looking like scum to looking like town.

[mastina]

Why does scum!her change her mind on you when you were a viable wagon?

we are not a viable wagon.

There ain't a claim in the world you could make that could stop you from being a viable wagon. Not even IC/FN/Mason. (And Vig, that claim was taken by MathBlade already, so like. Wouldn't have been that.)

But there is a thing that makes you town and that is the play.

[mastina]

With three people openly defending the wagon it wasn't that viable

T-Bone you might wanna think about your statement here.

You're saying this in relation to professotic, right?

...Which wagon

also

has three people openly defending the wagon, which you are still voting as if it were viable?

Think your logic through and what that implies.

[mastina]

I thought your defense of mastina was too confident given the circumstances. Felt like you'd already had your mind made up about her instead of genuinely considering the points against her. A lot like Yume, really.

Alternatively, Nancy and Yume are the two players in this game who have played with me more than any other players in this game--and thusly, have the far far far most accurate read of what my towngames (plural, mind you) are versus what my scumgame (

technically

could be plural but by and large, with occasional exceptions, it just...is literally the same every game) is, and they know that this is my towngame.

Tonally both are fine, tonally both are in

their

towngames, and both are town for like 20 different reasons.

The three of us are effectively masons in this game as far as I'm concerned. Not by role, but by having accurate reads on each other and knowing those reads to be accurate.

[mastina]

My own rule of thumb is that highposting bodes well for more townies barring a highposter having some sort of value beyond just well, posting
I understand this take is without context, but you play enough of these games and you start to notice patterns. Does anyone believe that the notated users have any scum equity? Open question

professotic, Past Present Future, and Yume are all in my scum pool.

If professotic is town (which I am leaning towards now), this is 0/3 guaranteed.

[mastina]

I'm sad to announce that, cause of my newly added real life commitments I will not have the time to continue playing this game so I have to replace out. It was my pleasure to play with you all even if it was for just one phase of a mafia game again.
I'm not going to disappear from website again and wont be leaving for years again though and will join more games/mod games in near future so will see you all again in near future <3

Ah fuck I feel bad about pushing FA now.

Have a good life, FA. <3

Wish you luck and hope to see you again. <3

[mastina]

And PPF - can't remember who said it but all 3 heads in town meta.

That would be me.

So tldr is bad reads from RR, not because they don't make sense but bc they do on a surface level.

This too.

[mastina]

I think the best course of action is to resolve between mastina/MathBlade.

If you mean by reading/sorting, resolving is fine.

If you mean by flipping, fuck no; MathBlade is town.

[mastina]

mastina getting desperate sounds similar to that practice?

Sure would be but unfortunately for Radical Rat my iso will show the truth which disagrees with his assessment of me being desperate.

[mastina]

Don't you think mastina is capable of faking tone?

Well.

Kinda?

But not really.

I can display

snark

as scum.

I can be

deadpan

as scum.

I can

joke

as scum.

I can roll my eyes as scum.

I can display uncertainty as scum. (Heck these days it's usually my default, in spite of uncertainty being something people usually consider town. For me I'd argue it's normally more scum because the idea of mastina is an ideal of conviction, so like--uncertainty just isn't the vibe of mastina, thus this is not something so much faked as much as it is scum default.)

All of those, I can fake.

When it comes to rage, I can't

fake

it but I can feel it and it will be true, 100% of the time, and often be based off of accusations that have no place being made in a mafia game. If people accuse me of things against my moral code, I will NOT take it well.

But like.

Tone is kinda sorta the thing that has been how I've been accurately read for like...my whole career, pretty much? It was what zMuffinman called "whimsy", it's something AngryPidgeon could see, it's something that, well. No. Can't really be faked.

I don't really have a scum tone

per se

(altho tbf this post is the closest I think I have to a scum tone--project this post across an entire game and have this post be the tone in ALL of my posts rather than a one-off and you've got a 90+% scumastina), but I have multiple town tones.

Often swapped between in a game, another biggie. scumastina is usually very very very consistent in town tone the entire game. But as town my tone changes at different times off of different circumstances. So tone is in that sense a

very

reliable tool for reading me.

[mastina]

So in your head is mastina like this scum ringleader and the defenders are associated? I don't know if I can exactly see that, because it begs the question what happens if mastina goes over? All her defenders would be incriminated

(Btw I think it bears mentioning: everything unwnd is saying pretty much looks town, but I don't think it's actually town. I'm not convinced it's town, so much as I think that nothing unwnd has said so far is truly alignment-indicative one way or another.)

[mastina]

I shut up for > 48 hours and nothing happened of note.

To the contrary, that 48 hours contained the professotic wagon shooting up to L-2, professotic towning it up, and then RR taking the spot as the top wagon in the game.

That ain't nothing.

That's a shitload of things.

[mastina]

Titus would a 'i told you so' be enough of a reward if mastina was just limmed?

I have a post on this, lemme pull it up.

There's a part of me that believes she's doing it out of spite to get one over on those of us with an incorrect read.

I mean--explicitly so, yes! I've been QUITE clear about my stance on this:

If you can't tell that I am town from what I have posted so far in the game, you don't deserve to. Ever. (Hope that wording's okay.) If you think you have any form of tell on me that comes to the conclusion I am scum--I know I'm town so no fucking duh, I am gonna be smug when you see the townflip.

I've gone through enough shit in one week that I, well and truly, don't give a damn.

There are things that I am obligated to do--share my thoughts on who I think is scum, share my thoughts on who I think is town.
Some stronger than others.

But putting any work into saving myself? Not among the things I'm obligated to do.

Every single vote on me has bullshit reasoning. Literally every single one of them. There are NO valid reasons to vote me, here.

Even the "just end the day" logic, even the "this will continue tomorrow if not resolved today" logic, even the posts about it being content revolving around me making a toxic mindset

?

Bullshit logic.

But while the reasoning used to vote me is absolute shit--literally none of it is worth responding to.
If I have other reasons to engage with a post with bullshit reasoning, I will still engage with the post.

But by default, just not worth the effort. You can't see I'm town, you don't deserve to. You claim you read me as scum, you have no fucking clue what you were talking about. I don't really care to prove it, because the flip does that for me. So, yes. Not bothering to try. And yes, out of spite.

My spite won't stop me from sharing reads.
But I've no interest in defending myself, not in of itself at least.

Your logic is exactly the highlighted logic and it is bullshit.

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. I'm a facilitator for activity, sure, and have caused some bitter fights this game, yes. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are. Those are not things that kill the gamestate and even if they did--the conclusion from them is not to remove me. That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

It is lazy and it is either bullshit (from the town who should fucking know better) or scum (from those who see the convenience in the narrative).

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

professotic went from not wagoned, to top wagoned, to not wagoned again, in that time, from people not having them on their radar, putting them on the radar, and then later concluding (mostly at my behest) that they are not actually scum.

And there is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

That's lazy from town and scum-motivated from scum.

Yes, there was fatigue.
Yes, there was a time where people ran out of time/energy.

But then, we took the time to step back and distance ourselves--and there was a surge of reinvigorated energy.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.
There WAS a time during this day phase where it was true.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

That's not inherently scum, because lazy town be lazy.
But it is something that scum do because it's convenient and easy to hide behind.

[mastina]

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are.

That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

There is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

These parts bear particular reiterating.

The gamestate did NOT stall.
The conclusions did NOT become inevitable.
The game did NOT circle back into the same.
The situation HAS changed, and evolved.

The narrative that the game is still the same as it was a week or two ago is, explicitly, not reflective of reality.

[mastina]

I think the only way out of limbo is to look towards the future

For the record, not because of the vote on me but for the reasoning given--I think that unwnd has a pretty good chance of being scum here. (See also 2320 + 2319.)

The reasoning is either lazy-town or scum, but the reason I think scum over lazy town is, explicitly, because I don't believe that unwnd even as a replacement takes the lazy-town route.

[mastina]

This is fair, it's just frustrating that I can point out all of the ways mastina's actual content is scummy

(None of which are actually scumastina patterns/behaviors and in fact many of which are signature towntells, so.)

Even though I, you, Math, and others have all pointed out that it's fakable, multiball fucks with meta reads

The problem with this argument is that I have a long-standing meta showing what I can and can't fake, and that my meta is so extensive that I have multiball scum meta aplenty. Not just one or two or three games but like. At this stage. Somewhere in the range of 20 multiball scumgames?

You can't do a 1:1 comparison of singleball scumastina games, but I have enough multiball scumastina games to meta read me off of multiball and this is not my multiball scum meta.

and even mastina herself has admitted she isn't playing to either her Town or scum meta since she isn't even really mastina at this point

That isn't what I said and you know it.

I had one specific point where I

broke

. I snapped. I couldn't keep playing as mastina at that point--but

every post I made before then

, was in my mastina ideal. As such,

every post before then

was subject to my mastina meta. The meta that the players who know me best have repeatedly said was town.

You said it yourself, Radical Rat:

Mastina's posting has improved exponentially, to the point where

if the rest of the game hadn't happened

, I'd probably be townreading her now.

But the rest of the game did happen

My more recent contributions do not wipe out the game before that.

Radical Rat is literally showing a logical inconsistency by trying to have his cake and eat it too when these two viewpoints are literally contradictory

.
1888 is specifying that my newer play is townier, but doesn't remove the scummier earlygame.

But now, in 2296, Radical Rat is arguing the

opposite

--that my current play is out of my town/scum meta and therefore should not be treated as town.

The two posts use the exact opposite logic to force the narrative of me being scum.

My more recent posting being not following either of my metas does not wipe out

the entire game before that

where I was town. And my more recent posts are still me as town--just not as mastina.

[mastina]

and even mastina herself has admitted she isn't playing to either her Town or scum meta since she isn't even really mastina at this point

You said it yourself, Radical Rat:

Mastina's posting has improved exponentially, to the point where

if the rest of the game hadn't happened

, I'd probably be townreading her now.

But the rest of the game did happen

My more recent contributions do not wipe out the game before that.

Radical Rat is literally showing a logical inconsistency by trying to have his cake and eat it too when these two viewpoints are literally contradictory

.
1888 is specifying that my newer play is townier, but doesn't remove the scummier earlygame.

But now, in 2296, Radical Rat is arguing the

opposite

--that my current play is out of my town/scum meta and therefore should not be treated as town.

The two posts use the exact opposite logic to force the narrative of me being scum.

I want to reiterate this.

Check the argument in 1888. "mastina's newer posts are better, but her older ones are scum".
Check the argument in 2296. "mastina's newer posts are out of her meta, therefore should not be town".

There is literally a logical inconsistency between the two. (Neither is right btw but that's beside the point.)

[mastina]

But I didn't remember which was which at the time. (Now, I'm pretty sure it was the scum meta.)

Why wouldn't you just.... check?

I've said this before, too!

I'm late for leaving for work but I have to say: any mentions of me not doing things should perhaps pay attention to how I was last active on Friday, I take Saturdays off, and then I got blindsided by a double-shift on Sunday that instead of leaving me with 8 hours of free time left me with only two and that for the last two days I have done literally everything I can to stay afloat but I'm not there yet because I genuinely haven't had the time thanks to the work double-shift. (Proof I haven't had time: if I had the time, I would've been reading the scum PT from Datisi's cafe and commenting on that game's scum PT's contents. I haven't, because that PT released either Saturday or Sunday, and lo and behold, I haven't been able to read it yet because I haven't had the time.)

Why haven't I confirmed my 90% by looking for recent FA games to push it to 100%?

Because I fucking haven't had the time since before Saturday, that's why.

(Not the only place I've said that but not worth tracking them all down.)

And if you're gonna try to argue "you could be spending the time you're spending writing this, doing that research".

Sure could!

But that's less of a priority for me, because I can do it at any time. I can do it at any time, so I will do it when I have more free time than what I have now.

Staying up to date with the game thread takes priority. Are you going to try and argue that I should abandon reading the gamethread, abandon reads on all other players, abandon engaging with others, abandon commenting on things, etc., all for the sake of ONE read that I can do at any time when I have more free time?

Because I think the fucking priority is pretty damn clear here!

No fucking shit I'm not doing the FA research--I have a finite amount of time. I don't have the time to both do the FA research AND keep up to date with the game thread--I have to pick and choose which. And keeping up with the game thread should be self-evidently more important.

[mastina]

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (comfortable moving them up here)} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{MathBlade}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant, professotic (may be up there with MB, not quite sure)}


??? (could be PoE scum, but hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Radja/unwnd}

{Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

[mastina]

Titus would a 'i told you so' be enough of a reward if mastina was just limmed?

I have a post on this, lemme pull it up.

There's a part of me that believes she's doing it out of spite to get one over on those of us with an incorrect read.

I mean--explicitly so, yes! I've been QUITE clear about my stance on this:

If you can't tell that I am town from what I have posted so far in the game, you don't deserve to. Ever. (Hope that wording's okay.) If you think you have any form of tell on me that comes to the conclusion I am scum--I know I'm town so no fucking duh, I am gonna be smug when you see the townflip.

I've gone through enough shit in one week that I, well and truly, don't give a damn.

There are things that I am obligated to do--share my thoughts on who I think is scum, share my thoughts on who I think is town.
Some stronger than others.

But putting any work into saving myself? Not among the things I'm obligated to do.

Every single vote on me has bullshit reasoning. Literally every single one of them. There are NO valid reasons to vote me, here.

Even the "just end the day" logic, even the "this will continue tomorrow if not resolved today" logic, even the posts about it being content revolving around me making a toxic mindset

?

Bullshit logic.

But while the reasoning used to vote me is absolute shit--literally none of it is worth responding to.
If I have other reasons to engage with a post with bullshit reasoning, I will still engage with the post.

But by default, just not worth the effort. You can't see I'm town, you don't deserve to. You claim you read me as scum, you have no fucking clue what you were talking about. I don't really care to prove it, because the flip does that for me. So, yes. Not bothering to try. And yes, out of spite.

My spite won't stop me from sharing reads.
But I've no interest in defending myself, not in of itself at least.

Your logic is exactly the highlighted logic and it is bullshit.

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. I'm a facilitator for activity, sure, and have caused some bitter fights this game, yes. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are. Those are not things that kill the gamestate and even if they did--the conclusion from them is not to remove me. That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

It is lazy and it is either bullshit (from the town who should fucking know better) or scum (from those who see the convenience in the narrative).

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

professotic went from not wagoned, to top wagoned, to not wagoned again, in that time, from people not having them on their radar, putting them on the radar, and then later concluding (mostly at my behest) that they are not actually scum.

And there is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

That's lazy from town and scum-motivated from scum.

Yes, there was fatigue.
Yes, there was a time where people ran out of time/energy.

But then, we took the time to step back and distance ourselves--and there was a surge of reinvigorated energy.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.
There WAS a time during this day phase where it was true.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

That's not inherently scum, because lazy town be lazy.
But it is something that scum do because it's convenient and easy to hide behind.

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are.

That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

There is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

These parts bear particular reiterating.

The gamestate did NOT stall.
The conclusions did NOT become inevitable.
The game did NOT circle back into the same.
The situation HAS changed, and evolved.

The narrative that the game is still the same as it was a week or two ago is, explicitly, not reflective of reality.

I think the only way out of limbo is to look towards the future

For the record, not because of the vote on me but for the reasoning given--I think that unwnd has a pretty good chance of being scum here. (See also 2320 + 2319.)

The reasoning is either lazy-town or scum, but the reason I think scum over lazy town is, explicitly, because I don't believe that unwnd even as a replacement takes the lazy-town route.

For the new page, gonna restate these.

[mastina]

and even mastina herself has admitted she isn't playing to either her Town or scum meta since she isn't even really mastina at this point

You said it yourself, Radical Rat:

Mastina's posting has improved exponentially, to the point where

if the rest of the game hadn't happened

, I'd probably be townreading her now.

But the rest of the game did happen

My more recent contributions do not wipe out the game before that.

Radical Rat is literally showing a logical inconsistency by trying to have his cake and eat it too when these two viewpoints are literally contradictory

.
1888 is specifying that my newer play is townier, but doesn't remove the scummier earlygame.

But now, in 2296, Radical Rat is arguing the

opposite

--that my current play is out of my town/scum meta and therefore should not be treated as town.

The two posts use the exact opposite logic to force the narrative of me being scum.

I want to reiterate this.

Check the argument in 1888. "mastina's newer posts are better, but her older ones are scum".
Check the argument in 2296. "mastina's newer posts are out of her meta, therefore should not be town".

There is literally a logical inconsistency between the two. (Neither is right btw but that's beside the point.)

But more importantly, for the new page, gonna restate this.

[mastina]

What is bothering you.

Absolutely nothing! Not anymore at least.

I am however obligated to hunt scum and think your attitude/approach this game is you as one!

[mastina]

With three people openly defending the wagon it wasn't that viable

T-Bone you might wanna think about your statement here.

You're saying this in relation to professotic, right?

...Which wagon

also

has three people openly defending the wagon, which you are still voting as if it were viable?

Think your logic through and what that implies.

Fam you were at E-2. Why are you trying to re-write history?

Fam professotic was at E-2.

Why are YOU trying to re-write history?

professotic being at E-2 with three vocal defenders is no different than me being at E-2 with three vocal defenders.

[mastina]

the reasoning YOU GAVE was that you didn't have the energy for it AND that you'd been trying and failing to match it for a while at that point.

For a while--not the whole game.

The exact mark being two Saturdays ago, when the hell week began.

[mastina]

What this game? Did i sign up here?

Huh...

Mastina posts contain less than 20 lines, scum claim.

It's 14 lines, not 20 still scum

VOTE: Mastina
Trying to outspam

Btw for most of the game I've thought Enchant to be loosely town, but this series of posts might actually be Enchant as scum, particularly given:

1. I don't want to touch any of mastina/math/yume today.
Not just because i townread them, but i want this shitfest continue and it's pretty good chance all three are town somehow. Don't ask me how i achieved this idea, you will not like answer.

Enchant's not hard-scum tho, it's just that this is the first alarming thing I've seen from him which knocks him down a peg from where he was before.

[mastina]

Will have more to say later if Enchant doesn't hammer, but Enchant is off the wagon so like, if he doesn't hammer, y'all know what that means.

[mastina]

Will have more to say later if Enchant doesn't hammer, but Enchant is off the wagon so like, if he doesn't hammer, y'all know what that means.

Okay let me spell it out for you now that it has manifested.

Enchant always hammers as scum.

Enchant always hammers as town.

This is not a trust tell as a consequence, because him always hammering is done regardless of alignment.

Now, he will vote pre-hammer so can't hammer a wagon he's already on.

But if given the opportunity to hammer--even if it's a townread, even if it's a PR. Enchant will still hammer.

And having a stalled gamestate is all the more

reason

for Enchant to hammer. He'd have extra incentive to get the game into night, just so that we're not in the day anymore.

So then.

When there is MORE reason to hammer, rather than less.
And Enchant--regardless of his alignment--should hammer.

That begs the question:

Hm

So
UNVOTE:
Ya better to pick someone else. Use frozen deadline for full extent.

...Why isn't he?

There's only one reason which fits:

Enchant is scum

with

Radical Rat.

I suspected that in the first place when Enchant hopped onto my wagon when the Radical Rat wagon was bigger, attempting to tie the wagons up (and almost succeeding). Enchant can and will vote not to hammer, but he still likes to hammer and voting me at that time would deny him that if the wagon were to go through (and a wagon on me was quite likely to go through).

So why vote me there?

To try and save RR.

And the lack of hammer on RR proves it.

[mastina]

Will have more to say later if Enchant doesn't hammer, but Enchant is off the wagon so like, if he doesn't hammer, y'all know what that means.

Okay let me spell it out for you now that it has manifested.

Enchant always hammers as scum.

Enchant always hammers as town.

This is not a trust tell as a consequence, because him always hammering is done regardless of alignment.

Now, he will vote pre-hammer so can't hammer a wagon he's already on.

But if given the opportunity to hammer--even if it's a townread, even if it's a PR. Enchant will still hammer.

And having a stalled gamestate is all the more

reason

for Enchant to hammer. He'd have extra incentive to get the game into night, just so that we're not in the day anymore.

So then.

When there is MORE reason to hammer, rather than less.
And Enchant--regardless of his alignment--should hammer.

That begs the question:

Hm

So
UNVOTE:
Ya better to pick someone else. Use frozen deadline for full extent.

...Why isn't he?

There's only one reason which fits:

Enchant is scum

with

Radical Rat.

I suspected that in the first place when Enchant hopped onto my wagon when the Radical Rat wagon was bigger, attempting to tie the wagons up (and almost succeeding). Enchant can and will vote not to hammer, but he still likes to hammer and voting me at that time would deny him that if the wagon were to go through (and a wagon on me was quite likely to go through).

So why vote me there?

To try and save RR.

And the lack of hammer on RR proves it.

Pagetop.

[mastina]

This Rat wagon is soooo bad.

I'm not gonna claim that it's scum free, because obviously, it's not.

But it's still a town-driven wagon.

Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

I'm town.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is town. Period. This is Klick as town.

Yume is town. Period. This is unnegotiable. She is locktown of locktown, never scum here ever.

Past Present Future is town. Period. This is all three being town. Never scum ever, locktown of locktown.

Ydrasse is town. Save the Dragons was in his town meta and Ydrasse has continued to show herself to be town since replacing in.

So where are the sum?

The only

options

(not guarantees, just OPTIONS) are {furtiveglance, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.

That's a MAXIMUM of three scum,

if

you believe that all three are scum.

For every name you see as town in those three, the number of possible scum on the wagon falls.

Suffice to say: no, not scumdriven. It's at least 5/8 town.

[mastina]

This Rat wagon is soooo bad.

I'm not gonna claim that it's scum free, because obviously, it's not.

But it's still a town-driven wagon.

Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

I'm town.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is town. Period. This is Klick as town.

Yume is town. Period. This is unnegotiable. She is locktown of locktown, never scum here ever.

Past Present Future is town. Period. This is all three being town. Never scum ever, locktown of locktown.

Ydrasse is town. Save the Dragons was in his town meta and Ydrasse has continued to show herself to be town since replacing in.

So where are the sum?

The only

options

(not guarantees, just OPTIONS) are {furtiveglance, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.

That's a MAXIMUM of three scum,

if

you believe that all three are scum.

For every name you see as town in those three, the number of possible scum on the wagon falls.

Suffice to say: no, not scumdriven. It's at least 5/8 town.

In contrast:

Mastina (7) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, Mathblade, unwnd, Enchant

I believe T-Bone, professotic, and MathBlade to be town in here.

But only those 3.

There's four possible scum on the mastina wagon.
{Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, unwnd, Enchant}.

Enchant's hop-on looks like scum saving a scumbuddy.
unwnd's replace-in radiates scum.
And Maid Cafe has been looking more and more scum.

Are all four scum?

Not unless I'm a god gamer scumhunter. (I am not a god gamer scumhunter.)

But are all four town?

Fuck no! There's guaranteed scum in there.

I would say 2-3 of RR's scumteam on mastina wagon (actually this is mandatory--even if FA is a scumbuddy, then unless MMR is the third or RR had a bussing scumbuddy, there is a minimum of two RR-scumteam on the wagon);
~0-2 of opposite scumteam on the RR wagon.

(FA scum off the wagon so I don't think it's all scum on both.)

If I had to guess,
{Radical Rat, Enchant, unwnd} (so yes all 3 on me) as one scumteam;
{Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship} as the other.

[mastina]

(Okay so it's Radical Rat + 2/3 of {Enchant, unwnd, Maid Cafe} for one scumteam, actually. I just think Enchant scumtold, and that unwnd fits better as an RR scumbuddy.

It's Frozen Angel + 2/3 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship, remainder-from-the-above} for the other. Thinking about it more, I somewhat doubt that Bunnyonce and Scarfmanship are scum together so I think my revised second scumteam is Frozen Angel + Maid Cafe + 1/2 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.)

[mastina]

If he's not, keeping you as high as possible is the best option, is it not?

Objectively? Yes!

Objectively speaking, Enchant as scum keeping me as high as possible is the best option.

But I don't think Enchant is

that

objective.

I think Enchant had scum motivation to hop onto my wagon when he did--but hopping off of my wagon doesn't carry town motivation. It's an objectively suboptimal play imo, but I'm not Enchant. I have

guesses

. I have

theories

. Enchant trying to mimic his towngame; Enchant believing that he has a better chance of saving you by unvoting me and hoping the town is distracted by trying to find a counterwagon; Enchant not having a plan and just doing it for the sake of doing it; Enchant thinking that removing his vote increases the odds of my wagon going through; etc.

I can

guess

at why he did what he did, but I don't know why he did it. It's an objectively suboptimal move imo, but it's exactly that: in MY opinion. His opinion can, and often does, differ from mine. So if in his opinion it was better to unvote, then he would unvote.

A town player is not going to have all the answers for why scum do the things that scum do--that doesn't stop them from correctly identifying the scum as scum.

And I believe that Enchant's play and progression here indicates he's scum with you--and your defense of him pretty much solidifies that.

[mastina]

I am aware people want me to claim right now, and I promise that I will, after catching up and giving my last thoughts.

I'm not claiming first because you fuckers are gonna hammer me the moment that I DO claim, and I can't exactly give my last thoughts after I'm eliminated, now, can I???

So, I WILL claim, at the end of this catchup, but since you're going to hammer me once I do, and I can't give my thoughts with a locked topic or after I am dead, I have to do the catchup first.

And, no. I don’t trust any promises from you of "I promise we'll let you live long enough to catch up after you claim".

No you fucking won't, don't pretend that you will.
Any individual player may mean it.

But the COLLECTIVE you? The collective you won't fucking wait, so don't try to claim you will. Any individual player can make that promise and mean it, but being an individual player, they can't actually keep it as part of the collective, can they???

So to make sure that you have my final thoughts, it'll be catchup first, claim after, and then after the claim, do whatever. Hammer, don't, doesn’t matter, I'll have spoken my peace.

[mastina]

I just got off work, will post properly when I get home/after dinner.

I'm a protective role though (I think). I'll explain more when I get back

Okay so.

I can remove burns on people, and if I target someone on the same phase they would receive a burn, the burn is blocked. My target will be informed if a burn is removed or blocked successfully.

I have not been told what a burn actually is, but I assume it has to do with the nonstandard factional abilities. Solar Cult makes the most sense to be burning people to me in that case.

Speaking of my claims though (as a reminder, I will be claiming after I have finished my catchup--so you'll get more about this then, if you're patient enough to bear with me), notice anything about Radical Rat's claim and why you were all stupid to unvote him because "hurdur protective role"??? (Every scum is going to claim a role btw so like. You should read by play not alignment and RR is scum. But I digress.)

I sure did!

You know what I noticed?

Radical Rat didn't mention something.

I don't know about YOUR power roles, but MINE mentions what phase I can act. Phase, singular, not plural.

(That said, this did get me to read my role PM again and oh fuck there are things in there that I actually

should

claim. My claim's not what I remembered it to be. I remembered my role PM giving me my sun/moon attunement and swore it said sun, but like: it doesn't. It just says I'm town. Literally all of my breadcrumbs involve me being sure that I am a town sun [role], but sun isn't actually listed in my role PM. I remembered the phase I can target people correctly; I remembered what my role does correctly. I didn't remember literally half of the PM and remembered some of it wrong, so uhhhh...I definitely SHOULD claim. But like. If you want my info--and I have some info which apparently isn't public--you need to let me catch up and give my thoughts first.)

[mastina]

(That said, this did get me to read my role PM again and oh fuck there are things in there that I actually

should

claim. My claim's not what I remembered it to be. I remembered my role PM giving me my sun/moon attunement and swore it said sun, but like: it doesn't. It just says I'm town. Literally all of my breadcrumbs involve me being sure that I am a town sun [role], but sun isn't actually listed in my role PM. I remembered the phase I can target people correctly; I remembered what my role does correctly. I didn't remember literally half of the PM and remembered some of it wrong, so uhhhh...I definitely SHOULD claim. But like. If you want my info--and I have some info which apparently isn't public--you need to let me catch up and give my thoughts first.)

Okay not gonna lie.

At work I was planning to do an entire catchup and then end the catchup without a real claim.

I literally have it in my notes,


In the unlikely event that we live long enough to do posts (hammer-happy idiots be hammer-happy) check back on RR's claim.

I don’t think that he claimed whether he's light/dark, and he didn’t specify only being able to act on specific nights.

Pretty sure at least.
Do catchup, including commenting on Ydrasse and addressing the 6 scumreads.

Reiterate the laziness of eliminating me, and how there has, probably, been options.

State there is a big fucking difference between the mastina persona having purposefully exaggerated early game townreads on players I don’t actually know very well,

Versus me out of the mastina persona fully open and honest having a late-day read on players who I am INTIMATELY familiar with.
The whole time, building up to my final joke, I should reiterate that I promise that I will claim at the end of my catchup. (It'll be bloody hilarious. The town certainly won't think so. They'll be furious. But if I can pull it off, then the payoff will be fucking hilarious to ME, and given that my claim only solidifies my elimination so it wouldn't actually save me, I might as well have some fun trolling the town with my spite.)
My claim post should quote the MathBlade post, spoilered, but with a notation at the end:
"It should be noted, I thought that MathBlade was claiming an investigative role with his crumbs here, specifically MY investigative role."
Show, also spoiled, my breadcrumbs.

And then, for my claim, quote the Not Claiming post, but modify it with elaboration:
"If you don't see me as town by play, my claim won't magically make me any more town to you since I can't actually act until d1 anyway.
So if you can't see that I'm town from play, you don't get to see me as town at all. And, yes, this is pure spite."

Outside the quote, reiterate,
"Try reading that post, line for line. Not skimming. Not skipping. Reading. I put my claim in there, you just weren't paying attention because you didn't actually fucking read the post, did you???"



...But this

whole time

, I was

remembering my role PM wrong

.

I remembered the investigative part of my role correctly, it does exactly what I thought it did.
I remembered

two

of the restrictions on it (one of them the obvious, only being usable in one phase out of four per cycle, as a hint it ain't dusk so is one of night/dawn/noon).
But I had completely forgotten that about

two extra

restrictions and I genuinely didn't realize that roles didn't have sun/moon attunement public. (Heck I even remembered their names wrong, it's not light/dark like I thought but specifically sun/moon. I thought I was a Town Light [investigative], but it's just town [Investigative] that has sun/moon info.)

So change of plans.

I can't do the funny fuck-you that I was planning on, I actually

do

have important role info I need to share before the elim on me.

But I also still need to actually catch up because you're still gonna hammer me once I DO claim. (I'll claim both the real role and what I thought my role was, but apparently isn't.)

[mastina]

(That said, this did get me to read my role PM again and oh fuck there are things in there that I actually

should

claim. My claim's not what I remembered it to be. I remembered my role PM giving me my sun/moon attunement and swore it said sun, but like: it doesn't. It just says I'm town. Literally all of my breadcrumbs involve me being sure that I am a town sun [role], but sun isn't actually listed in my role PM. I remembered the phase I can target people correctly; I remembered what my role does correctly. I didn't remember literally half of the PM and remembered some of it wrong, so uhhhh...I definitely SHOULD claim. But like. If you want my info--and I have some info which apparently isn't public--you need to let me catch up and give my thoughts first.)

Okay not gonna lie. I was planning to do an entire catchup and then end the catchup without a real claim.

...But this

whole time

, I was

remembering my role PM wrong

.

I remembered the investigative part of my role correctly, it does exactly what I thought it did.
I remembered

two

of the restrictions on it (one of them the obvious, only being usable in one phase out of four per cycle, as a hint it ain't dusk so is one of night/dawn/noon).
But I had completely forgotten that about

two extra

restrictions and I genuinely didn't realize that roles didn't have sun/moon attunement public. (Heck I even remembered their names wrong, it's not light/dark like I thought but specifically sun/moon. I thought I was a Town Light [investigative], but it's just town [Investigative] that has sun/moon info.)

So change of plans.

I can't do the funny fuck-you that I was planning on, I actually

do

have important role info I need to share before the elim on me.

But I also still need to actually catch up because you're still gonna hammer me once I DO claim. (I'll claim both the real role and what I thought my role was, but apparently isn't.)

This bears reiteration, I actually have some pretty important info to share, my role is both much weaker than I thought it was (the restrictions I didn't remember) but also much stronger than I thought it was (the info that I thought everyone had and knew, turns out it's literally just me), so like.

For your own sakes let me fucking catch up and then I'll share with the class.

[mastina]

I'm going back quite a bit here in the catchup but I wasn't sure where a couple of the thoughts I wanted to address were so I had to start from back here.

Yet you're still being apprehensive towards despite an olive branch
I don't understand

You have extended no olive branch. You've said a lot of words that amount to very little, used very lazy logic to hop onto my wagon, and have given little in the way of actual commitment in reads with solid reasons.

All from a slot I already thought was scum.

Your play solidified the scumread I already had.

(As a reminder, I will claim when fully caught up--I was originally gonna keep spamming every post with variants of "I will claim when fully caught up" and then when fully caught up make a post that was actually just a fuck-you, but since I remembered my role PM wrong and my role has actually important info to share, I unironically DO need to say this and remind people that I will share the info when caught up.)

[mastina]

scum do not get voted out like this.

Scum certainly can and do get voted out that way especially given the gamestate.
Multiball, looking for a wagon that progresses the game, players townreading me not wanting my elimination, having a null-or-below read there and deciding along the lines of "sure, why not?", etc.

The alignment of the player being voted out this way is determined both by the players on the wagon (at least 5/8 are guaranteed town), and also, the play of the player in question (RR is scum).

The names are mostly town so it's inherently a town-driven wagon. Since town don't know the alignments of who they are voting, the only factor is the scum--but given multiball, even the scum don't know the FULL alignments of who they are voting. The only way it'd be a wagon on town is either sheer chance, or RR being voted by both scumteams.

Which is a quite small pool considering all of {mastina, Past Present Future, Yume, Ydrasse, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow} are town.

The wagon which actually won't get scum voted out is mine, and you'll get my claim when I get fully caught up.

At least the people voting Mastina think she's scum and have made arguments right or wrong.

And what, may I ask, actually

are

those arguments?

No, seriously.
What are they, exactly?

That I pushed MathBlade to claim by outing his 'crumbs? I thought that he was breadcrumbing my investigative role. I was wrong, but I still thought that.
That I haven't changed my reads enough? I definitely have.
That I haven't explained my reads enough? I've spent more energy explaining them than I have anything else.
That my reasons for the reads are fake? Well they aren't. Without the "why do you think they're fake", there's nothing to respond to because this is a generic vague accusation that has no backing.
That my posts are too defensive? They definitely haven't been. I've spent more time on the offense than anywhere else.
That my posts have been too long? I don't think I need to counter that.

That I am townreading a small set of players and they are defending me therefore we must be a scumteam? I'm defending more players than is possible to be a team, and vice-versa. So like: it's self-evident there's at least one town player in the mix and given how well the players know each other, it's actually just all of us being town and knowing each other to know each other are town. {Ydrasse, Past Present Future, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow} are all town, period.

That I had a breakdown? Well yes but that was rl-based.
The nature of the content during the breakdown? Okay, what was that which was scum?
That my posts have been spending a lot of time/energy doing things you don't think are important, rather than X Y Z that you think is? I'm both very busy, and not you, so my priorities are going to be mine.
That I have refused to claim? Well no fucking shit, I've been town by play the entire game, I shouldn't have needed to. (That said, given my info, I should've, but--I legit didn't remember that info, I remembered my PM wrong until today, so like, I didn't think I needed to.)

That the wagon on me has persisted? Yes, it's been pushed by lazy individuals regardless of their alignment.

That no coherent counterwagon has formed? That's a towntell, not a scumtell.

That there's been my wagon, versus multiple different wagons? Towntell, not a scumtell.

That my flip would be "better for the gamestate"? That ain't a scumread, now, is it?
That my flip would "give the most information"? Okay,

what

info would my townflip give? Not scumflip, that ain't happening, TOWNflip, what does it give? Any answer that has Yume/Ydrasse/PPF/DDS as scum is wrong. So what info does it give? That I was pushed by players and defended by players, but what are the alignments of the pushers and the defenders? You get no info about that tomorrow that you don't have today, so my flip does not provide those things.

That I changed playstyles multiple times this game (with the implication that I did so to save myself)? I think the reasons for that should be pretty fucking apparent. (Plurality + rl shit.)

That I am pushing players you personally think are town? Okay, but what makes me be scum from that rather than town believing my push?

That the players pushing me are your townreads? Okay, but what makes them more likely to be right just because you're townreading them, and what makes your townread on them likely to be right?

That I have done X in random scumgame A, Y in random scumgame B, and Z in random scumgame C, and done XYZ in this game, in spite of the fact that I've never done all three of XYZ in any game of mine as scum before and X is town in 90+% of my games (with scumgame A as literally the only scumgame with it), Y is town in 90+% of my games, etc.? Well that's pretty damn apparent in why it's not a good take.

That I am OMGUS'ing? Try to get your chronology right, the people voting me, did so after I scumread them--and some of them I never scumread at all. (T-Bone for instance.) I'm also not scumreading literally half of them.

That everything I have done

could

come from scum? Why yes, but that doesn't mean it

did

.

That I "scumslipped" the game having 6 scum? Well for a start you're pretty fucking dumb if you think that the

literal first game I play

after Datisi's Cafe where Ircher was caught for a scumslip on faction numbers, I then go on to do the

very same mistake

. (I wouldn't.) I never actually said there were 6 scum. (I'll be explaining this point more when I get to the MathBlade post on the subject.) Because I don't know there to be 6 scum. I assumed, and since then from the push on me I believe that the scum believe I am scum who TMI'd and that therefore the wagon on me tells us that, yes, there are six scum in spite of me being town.

That meta tells aren't valid? Not when you have enough multiball games to have meta from every perspective several times over. Also this isn't a reason for me to be scum in the first place, it's a shitty attempt to discredit the townreads on me.

That I have been toxic to the gamestate? Well, fair, I suppose--but that doesn't reveal my alignment, now, does it? Or rather it does, and it ain't a scum one.

That I have tried to exhaust people and did so successfully? Well, fair, but I've never actually done that as scum; every game it's happened, I was town.

That I haven't been very logical? I have been, and even if I wasn't, not scum.

That I've made pushes that are good for scum? And what would those be? Certainly not MathBlade. Definitely not professotic. And what makes RR a bad push? Him claiming a role that's likely a scumclaim? He ain't town.

That keeping me in the game is better for scum? That doesn't make me scum and actually makes me town, but even

that

logic I have disagreements on, which I intend to vocalize.

I'm feeling a bit lazy (ironically enough), I know this isn't all the reasons any of you have had for me being scum, but I'm too lazy to write them all out but suffice to say, if I did track them down, literally every single one of them would be one of:
-Rats-ass backwards (being a towntell),
-Not actually a scumtell,
-Be subjective,
-Be outright false,
-Be hypocritical in how it uses one set of logic to justify a scumread on me but disregarding that same logic and its implications elsewhere which would prove the point to not be true,
-Be vague, unspecific, not defined.

Often more than one of those.

Feel free to state "I'm not scumreading you for any of that, I'm scumreading you for X Y Z" in spite of me acknowledging that I don't actually have the motivation to go look up all the reasons for the scumreads on me since it's literally like ten players each with 100+ post isos that I would have to sift through which is like 3000 posts to point to--fuck that.

I'm just rambling them off as they pop up into my head, but if you insist, you can state the reasons for the scumread again--and then I can demonstrate to you how EMPTY that scumread is.



Because the reasons for voting me are entirely empty, lazy, or both. And in hindsight, you'll see it, too.

After I flip town, you can look at every player scumreading me.
Read their reasons WHY they were scumreading me

with the knowledge I am town

and try to fucking tell me that their reasons were valid and fleshed out.

The only one with a fleshed out scumread on me is MathBlade.
The only three with nuanced scumreads on me are MathBlade, professotic, and T-Bone.
But nobody has

valid

reasons, and every. other. vote. on me has been lazy, with many of the lazy reasons being outright invalid, and every one of the lazy reads not being fleshed out and lacking nuance to the thought process.

Because while not everyone who voting me is scum, everyone who is voting me IS lazy.


Also, reminder: this IS going to lead up to me claiming. For real. Just airing thoughts out first.

[mastina]

I am not voting off someone who protects from a likely arsonist in this setup e.g firefighter

Yeah because they're your scumbuddy.

[mastina]

Again, I'm not gonna ask you to tone down on yourself. I would like however if you could somehow condense whatever message you're trying to relay. A lot of your additive phrasing really disorients me because often what will happen is either

1) I skim your post
2) I attempt to read your post, but it just tonally comes off as platitudes of the word salad kind

This is not your first game with me so don't fucking pretend you don't know what I am literally infamous for especially in every game that I get run up as when I'm town. (No seriously. My verbosity skyrockets in games when I am town being wagoned--and has never ONCE skyrocketed in response to pressure when I was scum. I can prove this fairly easily with meta, to show pre-mastina-pressure on me in towngames and post-mastina-pressure in towngames, versus pre-mastina-pressure on me in scumgames versus post-mastina-pressure on me in scumgames. Hint: as is the case with most of these things, it exists in one, and

exactly

ONE, scumgame and is completely and entirely absent from all others. Because yes I can do it and did, once. And doing it that one time taught me to never do it again. So I didn't. I stopped trying as scum in direct response to that game. Literally every other scumgame lacks that and literally every other time was town. So blowups from me have a 95+% rate of coming from town, and not responding to pressure has a 95+% rate of coming from scum. Neither is 100% due do that single scumgame, but that's the thing. I've done

everything

as scum, once. But doing something as scum once doesn't mean I can do it every game.)

My first title onsite was literally, "Unabridged".
You know how I got that title?

It's because I am verbose. I am autistic AND I have ADHD, AND I am plural on top of that. I swap between people writing all the time, I struggle to find the wording, every wording I use has nuance, I get distracted, I hyperfocus on things, I don't know how to word what I want--

Literally all of that?

That's just who I am and have always been.

And this isn't your first time seeing it from me, either. You LITERALLY saw my posts in Not Quite Normal Multiball.
You saw me in Draft Mafia.
You saw me in AI UPick.

I admit that I am more verbose this game than normal--but that happens in my towngames when I am wagoned. (It is absent from my scumgames.)
It happened in Doubles Mafia. (Check my iso pre-push versus post-push.)
It happened in Alisae v Pine. (Check my iso pre-push versus post-push.) (Speaking of this game tho, I'm gonna come back to it later, it's important.)
It happened in Restless Spirits Mafia. (Speaking of this game tho, I'm gonna come back to it later, it's important.)
It happened in Timeshift Mafia.
It happened in Krazy's Anime UPick (not the same as below).
It happened in Anime Upick (not the same as above).
It happened in Varsoon's Variety Hour.
It happened in Final Fantasy 7.
It happened in Tales of You. (Speaking of this tho, it's an important game, I'm gonna come back to it.)

My postcount has exploded in both length and amount for

ten plus years

.

And you think I'm going to change it just because you asked?

I literally can't. I care too much. I try not to. But my mastina persona has already slipped back into control and all her bad habits and she fucking cares. I try not to care. But she does. And when she cares she fucking fights. (As a hint, I don't care as scum. I just don't. I well and truly, just. Don't.) And when I fight. I get vocal. Verbose. Repetitive.

And, this isn't a threat so much as it is a guarantee: only removing the pressure through death or backing down will make me be less verbose.
It's not a choice.
It's who I am. You may as well try to tell me to stop seeing a color, to stop having ten fingers, to stop having a bad shoulder--it is something so innate to who I am that it is something I

can't

change.

I respond to pressure as town in one way. It is not a good way. But every time it happens because every time the pattern is the same. "I'm not going to do this." And I try not to. And then I do it anyway. And then I give up on not doing it. And then it gets worse.

It is normally not an issue because normally my life is in enough balance that it doesn't crop up.
My life's not balanced right now so like. I genuinely can't stop.

I'm burning up right now from the literal fire of heat/passion within me, of emotions.

Do you know the feeling? Of being so intensely into something, that you literally have your entire body feel like it's on fire? I have only felt that as scum once, and it was such a miserable time I vowed never to try as scum again pretty much. But it is a thing with me. And no matter how many times I promise it won't happen as town, it keeps happening because it is a result of caring and I can't stop caring as mastina. And while I tried to shake off being mastina, she keeps coming back. So I can't not care. And because I can't not care. The care manifests as...well. What it always does. Which is this.

[mastina]

Why did you use so much character space and verbal jargon to essentially say the same thing in every line.

Uh because I'm literally fucking neurodivergent and that is how I think???

I'm somewhat repetitive even in

normal

circumstances.

I get much more repetitive when I am under pressure in a game that I care about (and because I don't care about my scumgame, this is always town*).

(*Barring the one single scumgame that taught me to NEVER AGAIN try. It was not worth it, scum just...isn't worth it. To be fair, neither is town, but like. For whatever reason, "just don't care, not worth it" stuck to my scumgame but hasn't to my towngame because for the life of me, I can't not care as town. You literally saw me

try

to not care this game. I literally TRIED to give up. I literally TRIED to not bother, to not give a damn. To not care. But it's back again because of course it fucking is, I can't not care.)

[mastina]

RR role is just plausable enough.

It's plausible but given my own role, I think theirs is scum.

(All?) Players have sun/moon attunements, with all lunar cult being moon and all solar cult being sun. (This is not all there is to my info btw but is part of it.)

RR's roleclaim is one which looks like lunar cult, or a solar cult fakeclaim.

[mastina]

Fact it's town drived doesh't meant you didn't fuck up.

It being town-driven though

does

mean that you can narrow who the possible scum are quite significantly.

But it's still a town-driven wagon.

Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

I'm town. Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is town. Period. This is Klick as town. Yume is town. Period. This is unnegotiable. She is locktown of locktown, never scum here ever. Past Present Future is town. Period. This is all three being town. Never scum ever, locktown of locktown. Ydrasse is town. Save the Dragons was in his town meta and Ydrasse has continued to show herself to be town since replacing in.

So where are the scum?

The only

options

(not guarantees, just OPTIONS) are {furtiveglance, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.

That's a MAXIMUM of three scum,

if

you believe that all three are scum.

For every name you see as town in those three, the number of possible scum on the wagon falls.

It's at least 5/8 town.

If it's at least 5/8 town, then where are the rest of the scum?
Why aren't there more scum voting there? With an assumed 6 in the game, that'd be three scum off at minimum.

You can use the info from there being five town to determine who in the game is more likely to be scum by where they are, and are not, positioned.

[mastina]

This game is going to be an excellent case study into why relying solely on meta for your reads is a bad idea

I will admit that my meta on many players is not solid.

My meta on the four locktown is nonnegotiable in how infallible it is.

Yume

cannot

be scum here. Literally cannot.

Past Present Future

cannot

be scum here.

Ydrasse/Save the Dragons just aren't; both holders of the slot are in their town meta, lack their scumtells, and have good pushes that give them extra town credentials.

And Dingle Dangle Scarecrow can't be scum here because when Klick is even remotely close to mindmelding with me, he's just outright town, period.

If all my other reads were wrong--those four would not be. They

cannot

be. And every single one of them will be proven town with time, proving my reads there right.

I wonder what all of my townreads being proven right will say about MY reads? Especially after I'm shown to be town.

Perhaps, oh, I dunno...that my reads aren't as terrible as the people wagoning me say they are???

Gee, who'd'a thought?

[mastina]

I don't like mastina's new posts at all. It seems she is only interested in creating prepetual what-if situations that serve a personal narrative. I don't know where she exactly lost the plot, but her posts are written like a script.

I admit that mastina delves into being so convinced she's right that she will discard any reason to doubt her reads and she will insist they are right.

And that I have been slipping back into her without trying.

But scumastina hasn't written scripts in literally five years. (I mean I used to, I just...don't anymore. See also, I don't care as scum anymore.)

And, my strongest townreads here are never wrong. All five of those votes on RR are town.

And with me never wrong on those townreads, and with me as town.

That leaves 12 names for ~6 scum.

A literal 50/50 chance of hitting scum.

For any slot you clear, that pool shrinks.

And for every slot remaining, interactions form between them.

No scumteam is ever going to make 100% sense. There will always be something that doesn't fit. But that scumteam still exists in spite of the thing(s) making it seem like it doesn't fit. mastina knows that and chooses to discard the things not matching, convinced she got it right.

I'm not nearly as confident as I pretend to be when being mastina--but I still believe the scum are who they are and that it doesn't matter what they have shown which is town, every scum player shows some townness while still being scum.

The difference between me and mastina right now is that I'll be honest in saying I'm

not

sure on Enchant being scum here. (mastina would pretend she was absolutely deadset on him being scum.)

He's someone I think has been playing the most pro-scum way possible for the last half week or so.
He's someone I think fits as scum.
He's someone I feel like was coasting by on nulltells that look town enough from him, and has tipped more of a scum hand recently.

But that ain't 100% confidence. It's more like...30-50%. The weakest read I have in the scum poe.

I'm

aware

that Enchant could've just stayed on me the whole time--but I genuinely feel he wouldn't stay on regardless of his alignment, there. It's something I just don't think he stays on there even if scum with RR, there. Why, I dunno, gut I guess? It fits with my mental profile of him and his tendencies.

[mastina]

If you write a post dedicated to why you think I'm scum I will do my best to respond

So in your head is mastina like this scum ringleader and the defenders are associated? I don't know if I can exactly see that, because it begs the question what happens if mastina goes over? All her defenders would be incriminated

(Btw I think it bears mentioning: everything unwnd is saying pretty much looks town, but I don't think it's actually town. I'm not convinced it's town, so much as I think that nothing unwnd has said so far is truly alignment-indicative one way or another.)

You were trying to look town without actually being town. (I believe the buzzword for this the kids use these days is LAMIST.)

I think the only way out of limbo is to look towards the future

For the record, I think that unwnd has a pretty good chance of being scum here. (See also 2320 + 2319.)

The reasoning is either lazy-town or scum, but the reason I think scum over lazy town is, explicitly, because I don't believe that unwnd even as a replacement takes the lazy-town route.

I want to reiterate,

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are.

That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

There is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

These parts bear particular reiterating.

The gamestate did NOT stall.
The conclusions did NOT become inevitable.
The game did NOT circle back into the same.
The situation HAS changed, and evolved.

The narrative that the game is still the same as it was a week or two ago is, explicitly, not reflective of reality.

And the reason why 2277 is so scum is specifically BECAUSE of how lazy it is. It is an "easy" stance to take, that has zero consequences to it.

Tell me: what consequences are there to saying "eliminating mastina moves the gamestate forward"?

What is the downside of someone saying that?

It is something they can defend as "objectively true", as a genuine belief. It is something that many players have stated. It is something that has been repeated multiple times by multiple people.

So WHAT, I may ask, makes that a stance that is anything other than pure laziness?

It's lazy, in a scum-indicative way, specifically because unwnd is not a lazy town player. To say that my death helps the gamestate without an attempt to sort my alignment in good faith (engaging with RR who scumread me is not engaging in good faith btw), is in no way shape or form something that carries any negative repercussions.

There's no need to backtrack after my elimination. There's no need to take a stance that needs defending. There's no need to take a stance controversial. It is something that allows for a vote that anyone can cast. It is not, innately, inherently, a scum perspective, but regardless of alignment it is a

lazy

take. I'll reiterate this as well:

The only one with a fleshed out scumread on me is MathBlade.
The only three with nuanced scumreads on me are MathBlade, professotic, and T-Bone.
But nobody has

valid

reasons, and every. other. vote. on me has been lazy, with many of the lazy reasons being outright invalid, and every one of the lazy reads not being fleshed out and lacking nuance to the thought process.

Because while not everyone who voting me is scum, everyone who is voting me IS lazy.

You do not have a reason for scumreading me, unwnd. You have a reason for

voting

me--but it lacks the nuances and fleshed out nature of MathBlade, T-Bone, and professotic. (There's a damn good reason those are the only three consistently voting me that I have a townread on.)

I am however obligated to hunt scum and think your attitude/approach this game is you as one!

Your attitude/approach this game is, explicitly, lazy and uncreative.

You have no unique/original takes as a replacement in this game.
You have added nothing of note.
You have avoided taking stronger stances on most players.
You have avoided giving

reasons

for your reads on most players.
You have been giving the bare minimum, pretending to say a lot yet saying very little.

Which, yes, I know, ironic for me to be accusing you of it given my own issues.

But while it may be ironic and technically hypocritical--YOU do not have the same tendencies/history/style/justifications/etc. that I do.

I am still doing a lot. I'm saying a lot which could be said with far less, but it'd be disingenous as fuck to say I've said very little.

But for you, not so much. You are genuinely using a lot of words that form empty reasonless stances. You're accusing me of something you yourself are guilty of. If you think it's scum for me, then what does that say of YOU?

Yet you're still being apprehensive towards despite an olive branch
I don't understand

You have extended no olive branch. You've said a lot of words that amount to very little, used very lazy logic to hop onto my wagon, and have given little in the way of actual commitment in reads with solid reasons.

All from a slot I already thought was scum.

Your play solidified the scumread I already had.

And for Radja, it was

I've been keeping up on my phone, but the amount of players and hydra heads in this game make it hard for me to get much reads really.

This has a fairly good chance of being scum.

keeping up with nothing to say while doing scumplaining.

And on top of it all?

{Radja, Radical Rat} have had scumteam-indicative interactions the whole game, with you and your RR defense doubling down on those same interactions.

[mastina]

You realize that following the LLD rule that makes your reads likely to be really bad if you’re town right?

This is not the first time you've said this, MathBlade, and I am getting to that first time you said it for why it's not true. But let me reiterate the summarized version:

There is a big fucking difference between the mastina persona having purposefully exaggerated early game townreads on players I don’t actually know very well,

Versus me out of the mastina persona fully open and honest having a late-day read on players who I am INTIMATELY familiar with.

The LLD rule applies to when I am in the mastina persona (my reads on those four are NOT in the mastina persona), in the RVS stages of the game (we are NOT in the RVS stages of the game), on players that I am NOT intimately familiar with (I AM intimately familiar with these four).

I have

exaggerated

confidence as mastina. In the earlygame, this exaggerated confidence can lead to scum being higher up in my readslist, especially when I am not familiar with the players in question. That is the basis of LLD's stance because LLD is used to dealing with me in the mastina persona, for which this is true.

It does not apply for players who I fucking know better than anyone else onsite.

I am one of THE two best players ONSITE at reading Yume--and the other is in the Past Present Future hydra and agrees with me. You can't invert that read, because it's not just mine and it's never fucking wrong ever.
I am one of THE best players ONSITE at reading Nancy--I've NEVER gotten that read wrong in ANY of my past town games. Nancy was my top townread in those past games, if you blindly followed the LLD tell you'd have been wrong in every. single. one. of them. Because she was town and I fucking KNEW she was town. (Except her scumgames, when I knew she was scum.)
I have NEVER gotten my read wrong on Ydrasse, and ever since I learned of the night/day difference in his meta, I have NEVER gotten my read wrong on StD, either. If you blindly followed the LLD tell you'd have been wrong in every. fucking. game. I had them as my top townreads because I'm NOT wrong about them.

[mastina]

Like all this is just bluster and AtE which you have done as town and scum as I already filled out your checklist.

Yeah and you did so in a way literally every player called disingenuous as fuck. Even T-Bone called you out on it.

So no, you really didn't.

The rule of the flowchart at its core is,
"mastina can do anything as scum, and has done everything as scum at least once--but the presence of her having done something once as scum does not make the presence of that thing scum, it is only if it is

consistently

present that it is scum".

You violated that by nitpicking and tracking down the exceptions to the rule. The single scumgame where I did The Thing, ignoring literally every. single. other. scumgame, where I didn'd do That Thing.

And similarly so for the town half.

Literally every player who engaged you with you having filled out the flowchart called you out on your bullshit. Literally. Every. Single. Player. They're not all scum, so that tells you that there are town players who think you were disingenuous in when you did. Because you WERE.

So no. You didn't fill it out. Not really.

Yes, I

can

AtE as scum.
Yes, I

have

AtE'd as scum.
Those are both objectively true.

But 95+% of my AtE has come from me as town, because surprise surprise.
Turns out that as scum I don't really give a fuck most of the time and can't even pretend to most of the time.

There's a reason "being logical, calm, cool, collected" was the hugest of huge scumastina tells for the longest time.
I've since tried to channel that into my towngame because I

like

those traits, I think they are good traits for town players to have, and I feel like when I have those traits I am at the top of my towngame (so my scumgame having them made my scumgame be a better towngame than my actual towngame).

But while I try to channel them into my towngame, I've never fully succeeded, there's a lot more...passion, behind my presence as town.

[mastina]

You’ve given your reads.

Not good enough I haven't. Your last post quoting them proved that where you had entirely wrong ideas about my stances/reads in the game--so like. I know there are players who don't know what my reads/reasons

actually

are, and I'm not finished until I do.

[mastina]

I find it entirely unlikely you push me for “having a similar role” then “forgot” part. That “forgotten” part would be on your flip anyway.

I've looked at my role PM a grand total of twice.

Once in the pregame.

The second time today.

I breadcrumbed off of what I remembered it to be (and remembered it half-wrong, so my breadcrumbs are also half-wrong).

I saw your breadcrumbs and thought they matched the role I remembered mine to be.

I didn't check my role PM tho because I was sure I knew it, and it wasn't like you had claimed your role at the time.

And when you did claim your role, it was a moot point since you're not an investigative role like I thought you were.

I only rechecked my role PM because of the RR claim and me, at work, remembering, "hey wait a sec...RR didn't claim either of The Things that I know my role PM had". And then when I rechecked, it turns out, my role PM didn't have both of The Things, it only had one.

I check my role PM whenever I feel I have reason to, never more, never less.

I didn't have reason to check my role PM when pushing you, because you never claimed the formatting of your role PM, and by the time you roleclaimed, it wasn't something important to focus on.

I did have reason to check my role PM after thinking about RR's claim, because RR's lack of formatting was something I found suspect due to them being at L-1 at the time.

[mastina]

I am just exhausted of this Bree (if it is another head talking apologies)

We're all Bree, and right now we don't know most of our names tbh. (Aside from Vee and Ruby, today is the first day we were able to chart a voice to a name. We found out that Morgan is a voice in a subsystem of the mastina subsystem. She's ~24, an Aussie, has at least three in her subsystem, and is very sassy. My snark in games is probably her influence.)

IN GAMES, we're fine with being called mastina, that's the account we're playing on. (It's out of mafia games we prefer Bree.)

I am more interested in logic and facts than any AtE here.

And 90% of what I have said

has

been logic.

You might

disagree

with the logic.
You might call it wrong.

But every point I have raised with reason, has been logic, often with facts.
Things like links to past games.
Statements about my meta.
Statements about my reads on players.

All of those? Backed by facts and logic.

Don't pretend my pushes are reasonless. Don't pretend my stances are unfounded. If you do, you truly haven't read a single fucking thing I've written because 95+% of my posts have been me explaining my positions, reasoning, stances, logic, etc.

[mastina]

I think you explaining how this is a town mindset (given you’re claiming) does way more than just stating you’re town repeatedly.

Okay so I

know

that I just said 95+% of my posts give logic/reason/etc., but, uh.

I might be able to figure out a way to have logic/reasoning/etc. at a later time to this, but right now, legit all I can really think of to say is,

...It's a town mindset because I'm town?

(Sorry.)

I know I'm town, therefore it is a town mindset. I don't know how to explain it's a town mindset. I can point out why things are town-indicative, because those town-indicative things show the mindset. But I don't know how to show the town mindset in of itself. Not right now at least.

[mastina]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

I am!

But the conditions for me to claim have not yet been met:

I promise that I will, after catching up and giving my last thoughts.
it'll be catchup first, claim after, and then after the claim, do whatever. Hammer, don't, doesn’t matter, I'll have spoken my peace.

I've not spoken my peace yet, I've not finished catching up, and I've not given my last thoughts.

I'm getting to it tho.

[mastina]

I am sorry if this is cold Mastina but this is the exact same shit you did in the draft game with Drixx a long time ago.

I don't remember this, and I remember most of my games. (Admittedly not all of them.) You're gonna need to refresh my memory on it because I can't even find it on a quick search.

[mastina]

Please just explain and claim already.

I'll claim when I'm ready to claim.

You lose nothing by waiting--I'm not claiming to save myself; I'm claiming because I have information to share.

We have the time, thanks to the replacements. You can choose to do whatever you wish with the content I'm producing in the interim, but by and large, that content is me saying my peace so that when I am dead you can be absolutely clear where I stood, and cannot misinterpret it.

I'm fine with my death today.

I refuse to let my death today be brushed off without consequence and have people ignore my wishes.

And I don't trust you to not do exactly that right now; you've proven it repeatedly by stating things about my stances that aren't reflective of my stances. So there's a disconnect between what you think my stances are, and what my stances are. Meaning if I died right now--people would ignore my wishes and there would be no consequences with my death.

[mastina]

I don't care if RR's doctor ability cult fakeclaim. If I'm solar cult, I'm yeeting RR into the sun on the first noon phase no matter what. Furthermore, this is another instance of suggesting things that could be possible versus things that are likely.
Mafia suggests possible narratives. Town deduces likely outcomes.
Also anyone who doesn't like my style of posting, I claim the same defense as mastina and if you don't like me I'm not going to change myself to appease you

Yaknow what if you're not gonna do Radical Rat.

VOTE: Scarfmanship.

Scarf's on the other scumteam anyway.

[mastina]

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim.

Doesn't work that way.

I finish in as much time as it fucking takes me to finish, so long as it's done on this day.

If I go to bed without finishing, sure. You can hammer.

But three hours, five hours, seven hours--however long it takes, is how long it takes.

My thoughts are mine, not yours. YOU do not get to set a deadline on when I have spoken my thoughts to my satisfaction. Only I get that. So it's ME who gets to say when I have finished and it is then I will claim--not a moment sooner.

[mastina]

Math, chill on the posting for a bit, maybe if you don't give her any more ammo to reply to she'll run out of content and be forced to claim.

I mean, yes.

It is basically impossible for me to respond to the current stuff while also engaging with the older stuff.

I will claim when caught up with the older stuff, but the newer stuff shouldn't be ignored.

If there's no newer stuff, then I can focus on the older stuff.

[mastina]

Well done, we're getting nowhere now. She will just go on posting about literally anything but her claim.
~Greeting

By the way, Bunnyonce is scum, too.

[mastina]

I am trying desperately to keep caring and not be tunnel me.

Clearly not trying hard enough since literally every other player who has played with me a lot in the recent past and/or across their careers has me as town.

Ydrasse, Yume, DDS, PPF, heck even furtiveglance. (And to a lesser extent, MMR. The head/heads townreading me.)

All of them have recent games with me and/or a lot of games in their careers with me, and think this is me as town.

If you were truly trying, then having literally all of them say I'm town should tell you that you being unable to see it is not a them-problem.

They can't

all

be scum--and even one or two of them being town and saying I am town should tell you that you being unable to see me as town is an issue on your end.

I'm town, the players who see me as town are mostly or entirely town, they see me as town, and you think that all of them are wrong on me???

That's a tunnel.

[mastina]

I can see all town except PPF.
Can you elaborate on that?

Nancy has a certain ~energy~ as town, and is particularly passionate and emotional as town. She is fairly active and engages a ton. It's hard to really describe, but the difference between her scumplay and dayplay is night and day. If you can see Yume as town from her being in her day compared to her scum/night, then you should be able to see Nancy as town from her being in her day.

Auro is in his hydra-town-meta. And I do mean hydra-Auro-town. Auro posts differently in hydras than he does as a solo player, where he is less present, but still supportive and reasonable giving good logic. A scum-Auro usually feels a need to be more active in hydras, so him being more passive is, explicitly, a towntell specific to Auro in a hydra.

And Titus is also in her town meta. The things she is focusing on, her areas of engagement, the way she is talking to others, the reads she has, all of it is what I would expect from a town Titus, in being good but not perfect. She's also not visibly defending scum, in a game that we know scum have extra reason to defend scum in. Who could Titus be scum with? She can't be scum with anyone, really, which makes her town.

All three being in their towngame = they are town through and through.

[mastina]

No but actually I agree with Mastina that Radja and Unwnd have both been likely wolf.
I also put higher standards to better players such as Unwnd.
I read them based on the content they provide and how they chose to provide it.

Exactly.

I would vote any of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship, unwnd, Radical Rat} right now happily.

{FA slot, Maid Cafe slot} both are likely scum, but since they're being replaced I realize not much point in voting them right now.

(Enchant is a backup scum imo.)

[mastina]

I am sorry if this is cold Mastina but this is the exact same shit you did in the draft game with Drixx a long time ago.

I don't remember this, and I remember most of my games. (Admittedly not all of them.) You're gonna need to refresh my memory on it because I can't even find it on a quick search.

It was a three way elo with you Drixx and one other person.

It looks like game searches don’t go back that far anymore unfortunately. I did a search for every game you said Drixx in and the draft game didn’t come up. A lot of my older games don’t come up either.

Game searches go that far back. They go back to 2008, the year I signed up. My first games still show up. So whatever you're searching for, it isn't showing up not because searches don't go that far, but because what you're searching for:
-Either you have things wrong,
-Or, it was in the time period of the rollback and thus lost forever.

However, I remember my games in the period of the rollback fairly well and I don't remember a game like that in that time.

The only time I can remember being in a 3p lylo with Drixx was with me as town. I don't remember the game, but I don't remember any 3p lylo with me as scum.

I usually have a VERY good memory for lategame scumastina games and I mean it when I say I don't remember it.

Are you sure you're remembering who was playing correctly? Because I genuinely don't think it was me.
If you can find it, I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and be glad you reminded me of a game I'd forgotten about, and then be able to give you the context behind it.

But I honestly think the game you're thinking of doesn't exist. I have no memory of it, so I think your memory is wrong and it was either someone else or if it was me, I was town (not scum) there.

[mastina]

I thought I had specified, but my ability works during Noon, which is part of the reason I assumed burning to be Solar's thing.

Okay so I think Radical Rat IS scum here because my role is also done on noon but the modifiers I have on mine, I would expect them to have on theirs, as well. Well, not all of my modifiers. But there's two modifiers in MY acts-on-noon claim, that I would expect from RR's claim if theirs was true.

I get it, RR's a protective and I'm an investigative--but while the "you'll be informed if this happens" half RR wouldn't have, and one of the player restrictions RR wouldn't have (as that restriction is investigative-specific), there are TWO clauses to RR's claim that they don't have which I would expect to be universal or near-universal.

[mastina]

You still calling me scum after i could hammer you at E-1 while you say "I always hammer people as any alignment and won't because RR and Enchant is team" is funny.

No, no! Not scum!

Backup scum!

If any of my scumreads are wrong I'd think you're scum by PoE and you being the player I have the least reason to townread that could plausibly be scum.

But I currently think that you're town; your posting right now

looks

town.

[mastina]

I don't really want to engage with it, to be honest. I get the feeling others don't either, which is why there isn't much feedback.

(For the record I think this is a scum perspective as well but I don't have the energy to delve into it right now.)

[mastina]

Yeah I’m likely the original solve I had.
Mastina/Bunny/PPF
Unwnd/FA/Scarf, RR or MMR

It should perhaps tell you something about your solve that the only players in it I won't vote are PPF and MMR.

[mastina]

It's Mastina insist her PR reveal RR as liar, but goes for PAGES OF POSTS instead of telling "so uh i am NAME ROLE and RR looks scummy with my existance".

Actually it's not my role's name, it's my role's descriptors/limitations--the part directly above the wincon but otherwise at the bottom of the PM. That area.

[mastina]

I don't agree, I think it's a town claim. I know this game is slightly bastard but the balance of power between solar/lunar would seem heavily skewed in lunar's favor. If I'm solar here and the other faction can meddle with my kill power indirectly I'd be pretty pissed.

What makes the balance between solar/lunar tipped in lunar's favor without RR?

Nothing in the setup suggests that.

If anything, a doctor that shuts down the solar scumteam's power,
Tips the balance INTO being lunar's favor.

You need RR's claim to be either scum or a fakeclaim in order for the scales to be even.

[mastina]

If mastina is so obvtown then why does she seem like an island. Nobody is directly interacting with her

If I were so obvscum then why do I seem like an island? Nobody was directly interacting with me. That ain't a scum trait, it's a town trait.

[mastina]

If you're a town PR who refused to claim out of plain stubbornness the miselimination will be on you, and I will not be feeling any guilt for voting you out.

I think you're not making these long posts with the claimed intention of getting town to know your legacy better, but either to wear everyone down, mislead everyone or just for yourself.

VOTE: Bunnyonce

Yeah this is scum.

This betrays a scum mindset. "just for yourself" would, explicitly, be town.
"wear everyone down" would be nai.
The only of these which would be scum is "mislead everyone", but I am gradually proving that to not be true by following through on it, so like: the proof it's not is right there.

So admitting that it comes from a spot of town and trying to shift the blame on it to me when there's no reason to rush, is scum.

[mastina]

Mastina is notorious for having D1 reads backwards as town then eventually fixing it.
Several players have a flip Mastina’s reads rule.
(Granted I think this is toxic AF and don’t condone it)

It is in fact toxic and often, quite wrong. It's not without merit altogether, and is situationally quite justified.

By sheer coincidence, most games with LLD are games where it would apply--not games where it wouldn't.

The conditions for it to apply are:
-I am not intimately familiar with the players in question,
-I am

wrongly

familiar with the players in question (belief that I am intimately familiar with them, but being wildly off-base),
-It is earlier into the game,
-I am fully embracing the mastina ideals of "every scum player will do some town things and every town player will do some scum things, so discard the things which disagree with my read barring extreme circumstances causing a reevaluation",
-I am a role that I'm not really fond of in that particular game, and I don't have a plan,
-I am unfamiliar with the interactions between characters and their histories together (or am wrong about these things).

During those times (and by sheer coincidence, basically every LLD game has most or all of these apply), the inversion has merit because if I have a poor base foundation and do not budge from that poor foundation until much later in the game, the earlier list is going to be fairly off the mark.

However, even when fairly off the mark, it's never fully wrong. I don't get 4/4 of my top townreads be scum; I get 1/4 of my top townreads be scum, and they can be any one of those top four.
I don't get 6/6 of my scumreads wrong; I get 3-5 of my scumreads be wrong. My scumreads are a LOT easier to get wrong than my townreads (less scum in the game, natch!), so there's more wrongness to be had, but even at my most wrong I am usually not entirely wrong.

Which is why you are correct, it is not a good mindset. It has some

validity

, but only when applied

properly

.

And it's not applicable this game. (Okay I admit, when outside of mastina mode DDS and Ydrasse aren't 100% town. They're ~92.5-97.5% town, not 100%. But inside mastina mode that's like 200% town. And Yume/PPF are NEVER scum here, EVER.)

My reads right now have fairly good base:

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (comfortable moving them up here)} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{MathBlade}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant, professotic (may be up there with MB, not quite sure)}


??? (could be PoE scum, but hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Radja/unwnd}

{Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

This Rat wagon is soooo bad.

I'm not gonna claim that it's scum free, because obviously, it's not.

But it's still a town-driven wagon.

Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

I'm town.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is town. Period. This is Klick as town.

Yume is town. Period. This is unnegotiable. She is locktown of locktown, never scum here ever.

Past Present Future is town. Period. This is all three being town. Never scum ever, locktown of locktown.

Ydrasse is town. Save the Dragons was in his town meta and Ydrasse has continued to show herself to be town since replacing in.

So where are the sum?

The only

options

(not guarantees, just OPTIONS) are {furtiveglance, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.

That's a MAXIMUM of three scum,

if

you believe that all three are scum.

For every name you see as town in those three, the number of possible scum on the wagon falls.

Suffice to say: no, not scumdriven. It's at least 5/8 town.

In contrast:

Mastina (7) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, Mathblade, unwnd, Enchant

I believe T-Bone, professotic, and MathBlade to be town in here.

But only those 3.

There's four possible scum on the mastina wagon.
{Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, unwnd, Enchant}.

Enchant's hop-on looks like scum saving a scumbuddy.
unwnd's replace-in radiates scum.
And Maid Cafe has been looking more and more scum.

Are all four scum?

Not unless I'm a god gamer scumhunter. (I am not a god gamer scumhunter.)

But are all four town?

Fuck no! There's guaranteed scum in there.

I would say 2-3 of RR's scumteam on mastina wagon (actually this is mandatory--even if FA is a scumbuddy, then unless MMR is the third or RR had a bussing scumbuddy, there is a minimum of two RR-scumteam on the wagon);
~0-2 of opposite scumteam on the RR wagon.

(FA scum off the wagon so I don't think it's all scum on both.)

If I had to guess,
{Radical Rat, Enchant, unwnd} (so yes all 3 on me) as one scumteam;
{Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship} as the other.

(Okay so it's Radical Rat + 2/3 of {Enchant, unwnd, Maid Cafe} for one scumteam, actually. I just think Enchant scumtold, and that unwnd fits better as an RR scumbuddy.

It's Frozen Angel + 2/3 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship, remainder-from-the-above} for the other. Thinking about it more, I somewhat doubt that Bunnyonce and Scarfmanship are scum together so I think my revised second scumteam is Frozen Angel + Maid Cafe + 1/2 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.)

These are

slightly

out of date, but between the three you get a good base, so to update them:

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (comfortable moving them up here), MathBlade} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{professotic, T-Bone}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance} (both tiers of lean town apt, just furtive's more town than Enchant)

{Enchant} (both tiers of lean town apt, just Enchant has a higher scum equity imo)



PoE scum? (hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship, Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Radja/unwnd, Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

The locktown here, I don't think I'm ever wrong on. I've explained all but MathBlade up there extensively but MathBlade being town I think has become clear enough that I don't need to.
T-Bone, basically he's the only player in this game to have given incredibly nuanced thoughts on me with a hard consistent push on me in a way insanely town and his thought process on every player he talks about feels town, everything he does looks town.

professotic, the Professor half in particular looks town, their hydra dissonance looks town, and I can

see

the town from tictac.

I don't think I'm wrong on any of the above.

{MMR, furtiveglance, Enchant} all

could

be scum, but MMR feels town from all three heads and their interactions. I wouldn't touch them until everyone below on my list is flipped.

{furtiveglance} I've explained, basically furtive isn't the same furtive as Datisi's Cafe. It's a weak townread, could be wrong, but his thoughts look town enough for now.
Enchant is a wavering read but his current look is a good one.

Maid Cafe is being replaced but they are where Radja was--not really looking town in any way, when I have a lot of townreads that are solid.

Scarfmanship and Bunnyonce both look like scum.

unwnd is scum with Radical Rat.

Frozen Angel is in her scum meta.

I've explained all the scumreads except for Maid Cafe fairly extensively (okay maybe I should do more on Scarfmanship/Bunnyonce? But I don't think I really need to, scumreads on them aren't exactly hot takes, so like--after I'm gone y'all probably lim them anyway and thus, not as important), so from there we get pairings.

{unwnd, Radical Rat} needs a third.
My earlier notes say not-FA but yes-Bunnyonce.

My earlier notes say Maid Cafe is not partnered with Radical Rat, so not them.

I realize that both Bunnyonce and Scarfmanship were part of the L-1 wagon on RR.
So I realize that at least one thing I would normally assume is wrong.
A townread wrong;
Earlier interactions wrong;
Voting not clearing them from being partnered.

One of those three has to be true, because there's no scumteam possible for all of them. (Well, I

guess

teams of two? So make that four assumptions.)

So either there's a townread wrong (for instance, Enchant scum, but I currently lean against it),
Or the early interactions were wrong (one of FA/Maid Cafe scum with RR/unwnd),
Or the voting of RR was not clearing.

I lean the third. It could be Bunnyonce (50-50 there on yeah-def-partners and wait-definitely-not), but actually, scarfmanship fits quite well. The vote was reasonless, and Scarfmanship's RR stance throughout iso looks highly partnery.

So my current scumteam guesses would be,
{Radical Rat, unwnd, Scarfmanship}
{Frozen Angel, Maid Cafe, Bunnyonce}

I admit I've not done as much research as I'd like but I'm trying to get to claiming so I'll have to accept this as a rush job.
It's reads + teams, which is 90% where I want to be. (I do have a few extra thoughts to give tho.)

[mastina]

(For the record I can't engage 2793 and finish catchup. Can only do one of the two. Catchup better.)