I’d say do you not expect me to call a spade a spade?In post 991, Datisi wrote:if i said this feels like a loaded question with evil intentions, what would you tell me in response?In post 986, Menalque wrote:Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask you is as the other person who tipsy is SRing do you think their take is +scum or just +terrible?
Why Gun?? - Town Win
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"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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No one really makes sense tho
It’s like
Idk if you really work with keiji but maybe
I’m not sure you and Isis have interacted like I might expect if you were scum together
And I don’t think the scumteam’s entire plan is very likely to be “step 1) both hardpocket mena 2) ??? 3) PROFIT”
So probably just town by now"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Okay I’m defo interested in this oneIn post 1010, Datisi wrote:mena/k&s likely same alignment"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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It makes me want to kill porkens or tipsy more and norwee slightly lessIn post 1020, Datisi wrote:what'd you think of the rest of my readslist?
Broadly agree but the clustering of the names in the bottom left is a little unclear. I think it will be interesting to see another one later on maybe when there are less slots in the game"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I just find it interesting because I feel like MT and I have been very aligned in our reads throughout the game (more so than keiji/me) and so i guess I’m wondering why you don’t think we might be a pairing
I think i get it though, as in you’re seeing that me and keiji are doing broadly similar things but not being quite so openly in agreement on things/there’s not the same interaction between the two of us as there are between MT and me
And it makes me want to kill norwee less in comparison because, and don’t take this the wrong way, I’m currently of the belief that the “oh god oh fuck I don’t know” section of your reads is normally more likely to actually flip scum than your actively scumreading section"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Yeah, that’s quite helpful
What makes you more confident on your reads on jjh/umlaut compared to like MT/haven?
Yeah I’m not like putting all my faith in it, but I do just think I’m leaning towards the slots that give you heebies and difficulty reading being +scum
If this ends up being very wrong I’ll bear it in mind for the future"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Because I’m not like certain their scum anymore but some of the stuff you’re saying is just weird shade that seems unnecessary but I also don’t know why scum!yiu would say it like thatIn post 1033, Isis wrote:Why do you keep calling my posts "odd"
it's disconcerting.
Can't you say something more meaningful?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Why?In post 1039, Isis wrote:1030 is kind of a scumpost regardless of Porkens' alignment but H3 has lots of town equity to burn off"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Okay but why is that alignment indicative?In post 1056, NorwegianboyEE wrote:It was funny and had effort put into it dood."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Do you have preferences beyond halves?In post 1073, Isis wrote:Datisi is in the scummy half of players in this game yes"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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So icon is dead
That means we’re in a normal 13p game in which scum need to misguillo 4 times to win meaning without vig shenanigans town has 3 misguillos to burn
How many slots do I want dead
Like 3 and then there’s like 4-5 reserve slots if I’m wrong which means this isn’t locked in yet
Okay that’s fine"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Did you explain that or is it just general hydra hatredIn post 1076, Isis wrote:I think Datisi is less likely to be scum than like, the hydra. I don't have an awful lot of preferences beyond halves, I think this game is hard."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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ReasonsIn post 1079, Keiji and Sara wrote:
why me?In post 1072, Menalque wrote:MT, I think you may have missed it but I’d really like to hear your thoughts on kanna
~keiji"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I would disagree with this. You’ve been voting me, you haven’t been pushing me. I’m also quite unlikely to happen today and you should probably be thinking about where you’re willing to compromiseIn post 1126, TripleHaven wrote:I've been pushing Menalque for like the last 24 hours of this phase"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I think that probably all the scum is in (porkens, norwee, bell) or all the scum is in (umlaut, maxwell, jjh/tipsy)
Outside chance of isis in the second grouping
I highly doubt that datisi or MT ever flip scum this game. I think it’s unlikely that haven ever flips scum. I don’t really know what I think of keiji but I’m willing to sheep MT
MT
dats
Haven
Keiji
Isis
Porkens
Norwee
Bell
Jjh
Tipsy
Maxwell
Umlaut
I’d actually prefer to eliminate in the second grouping first as I think they’re the slots who I scumread more at this point. I don’t mind clearing through people like porkens who are more likely town but unlikely to contribute much if anything during the game and who may be disruptive. Also, I’m not a god of reads and the first group may be correct in which case just working through them seems fine, followed by looking at the second group"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Would anyone be interested in an umlaut wagon?In post 1177, Keiji and Sara wrote:
I think his ~don’t care~ attitude is mildly townie for him. Or at least I can see him doing it as townIn post 1172, Morning Tweet wrote:Does he have town games like this? I wasn't aware tbh
~keiji"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Why’s this?In post 1181, Morning Tweet wrote:Umlaut and Tipsy aren't scum together
Do you strongly prefer norwee > umlaut and if so why?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I actually think his iso is very empty but making more of a conscious effort to project town than slots like norwee or porkens. I don’t think he’s really solving in it throughout, and his tales have been very safe things to say — look at where he talks about his shot or his TR on haven. I don’t think he wants to rock the boat
I also just sort of generally think the game doesn’t feel solved, and my current set of scumreads are the people who I think just sort of faded away very quickly while having done nothing of substance vs the shit posters and obviously bad looking players (porkens and norwee mostly)"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Yes, I doIn post 1188, Morning Tweet wrote:Do you think that both Pork and Norwee could be town? If we pivot to an exile on Umlaut and he flips town, both Norwe and Pork are gonna be around the next day and that could be a bummer.
I don’t think it like /very strongly/ at all but unless porkens is actively playing to lose I don’t think he comes in with the takes he has
Norwee is probably a better bet for actual scum but again, he plays like this as town so honestly who knows. I think I’d rather try to vig there
If I was actively scumreading either of them, I would feel differently. But rn I think they’re the main focus for being ~*different*~ only I’m not convinced that’s actually scum indicative vs just indicative that they don’t care a lot about playing the game or taking it seriously. I don’t strongly object to eliminating them to reduce the noise and allow for a greater focus on what I think are the actual scum slots later on, but I don’t think either of them is in the “most likely to actually flip scum” category"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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The first 50 or so posts of this ISO too
viewtopic.php?p=11955351&user_select%5B ... #p11955351
I’ll grant it’s less than I thought but I think he’s trending more towards playing this way as town rather than away for it so this day is more null for him atm than it probably used to be"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I think this is already somewhat explained in my ISO but okay — first group is like the obviously scummy players. Porkens just not playing, coming in late with some very bad takes that just aren’t really related to what’s happened in the game— see: him arguing that I’ve been trying to leash our shots to be on certain people when my response to that being suggested was “lol no I’m shooting wherever I want”. Norwee just... isn’t doing a lot of solving and is mostly memeing + stuff like sheeping onto me from jjh when jjh voted me because of a misunderstanding. Bell is mostly there from the very early game that I still think was like obviously scummy looking but granted I may need to reread there. Tipsy could also maybe go into group 1 but like I think they could really be scum.In post 1228, Datisi wrote:
how did you get exactly these groups actually?In post 1170, Menalque wrote:I think that probably all the scum is in (porkens, norwee, bell) or all the scum is in (umlaut, maxwell, jjh/tipsy)
Outside chance of isis in the second grouping
why did you vote him half an hour earlier?In post 1173, Menalque wrote:I just don’t particularly think porkens will flip scum at this point
:/In post 1174, Menalque wrote:Inb4 datisi calls me scum for saying this
Umlaut is explained in my ISO I cbf to do it again. Maxwell — someone said they forgot he was in the game and I had that exact same experience. He’s just kind of been sitting in the townreads but actually I’m not sure there’s much basis for that beyond him having the same reads as morning and me. He’s one of those slots who’s sort of very null but I can see this being an attempt to play like town without being town. Jjh is a similar sort of thing — okay start, but has faded away and not really been scumhunting. I don’t hate maxwell’s case there tbh, but there’s two mitigating factors: (1) he said he would be limited somewhat in activity in the pre-game and (2) idk if his push on me would come if he was scum or not. Like that misunderstanding could have led to an opportunistic push on me but I’m not sure if it did do that necessarily.
I voted porkens because, as mentioned, I don’t mind getting read of the null slots first. I don’t think it’s an awful way to play, porkens could flip scum if I’m wrong. But I just, on balance, think scum are generally not trying to lose and porkens really isn’t playing in a way that looks like he wants to or cares about surviving. There is always the possibility that someone is counting on a townie to defend them for playing like this and is scum, but just, that doesn’t seem that probable.
I knew that this would worry you because I do this as scum too (oppose a miselim last minute to be on the right side of it) but I think you should bear in mind that I am actually advocating for doing my desired guillotine instead and compromising on porkens was something that made more sense when I wasn’t sure I’d be able to get enough support to flip umlaut before deadline due to bltiz. Once isis indicated she was willing to vote there I figured umlaut might be viable if I voted there too and started wagon building. But I didn’t want to lead off the vote when it was important to get a guillotine today and I was fine with compromising on porkens"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Ehhh, i see how you took that from what i said and I probably shouldn’t have said “all the scum is in X or all the scum is in Y” because that’s not precise to what I wanted. More like, I think the scum is clustered around group A or the scum is clustered around group B. As in, either the scummy slots are actually scum, or the scummy slots are town and the nullish slots have most of the scum in themIn post 1252, Datisi wrote:i understand why those people are null/scummy, i was under the impression you were saying: "the team is exactly pork/norwee/bell or umlaut/max/(jjh/tipsy)", and i'm very interested in how/why you're getting to full teams, and *exactly* those full teams (bc it looks like there's some 9000+IQ 5D chess partnerhunting going on there behind the scenes)
i hear what you mean about porkens, but my issue is that, usually with players that are unreadable/refusing to participate, if they're town, there's scum "circling" them in a sense and trying to make them viable for execution. and i'm kinda just... not seeing that here? (yes i know i'm saying this myself but) which lowkey worries me?
(also hint, if we don't attain majority by deadline, plurality is in effect, so dw about leading the vote away or whatever)
VOTE: umlaut
I don’t really feel strongly enough to try to call a full solve D1 in a 14p (although I’ll absolutely take it if either of those pools are totally right!) and there could be bleed through from one to the other. For instance, I’m not sure max/jjh make sense as partners given recent posting
I didn’t realise it was plurality, but in that’s also relevant to your second point — I wonder if scum aren’t as concerned about needing to add weight to porkens (if he is a miselim) because he’d go through without needing their support if he reaches a critical mass of town wanting to eliminate him, and that could account for the lack of vultures"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Well like, there seemed to be a fair number of people that I think are town happy to vote there: me, you, MT, isis, and I think haven said she was okay with it even if she was voting me at the timeIn post 1260, Datisi wrote:
fair and well, except i don't think anyone was pushing in his direction (other than isis with a naked vote that was reeking of "placeholder" with no attempts to push there) until i brought up the subject (and it seems like it's being actively pushed *away* from there now!)In post 1256, Menalque wrote:I didn’t realise it was plurality, but in that’s also relevant to your second point — I wonder if scum aren’t as concerned about needing to add weight to porkens (if he is a miselim) because he’d go through without needing their support if he reaches a critical mass of town wanting to eliminate him, and that could account for the lack of vultures
like, "if he reaches a critical mass", except absolutely nobody was adding mass there? (unless you argument is that i am, but i mean before that...) i dunno. doesn't pacify me.
i don't think i do. should i be thinking that?In post 1257, Menalque wrote:Datisi, do you think I’m out of my scumrange?
pedit: while that's perfectly possible, there's another issue with that. let's say porkens *is* a low hanging fruit. why is mafia not taking it? << insert another panicked rant about deepwolves here >>
My question about whether you think I’m out of my scumrange is not related to whether you think I should be (I don’t) it’s more a slight unease that’s maybe being compounded by isis’ suggestions that you’re pocketing me but — why are you not more paranoid of me then? I don’t feel like you’ve been really very paranoid of me at all this game and certainly for like several games you were super paranoid of me when you were town regardless of my alignment"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I mean, if I were trying to save porkens as scum it would be more because he’s unlikely to disrupt my control of the gamestate and because he’d be a good misguillo in gyloIn post 1259, maxwell wrote:Also possible scum just want to keep Porkens around if he's town because he'd be disruptive and more likely to harm town than anything else
I don’t really see how he’s likely to harm town more than anything else vía being disruptive?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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It’s not purely your low activity, and if you read the argument I made for it being you you’ll see that. It’s more that what you’ve done while being here is... deeply questionable and I don’t think representative of town!youIn post 1264, Umlaut wrote:Hi, I'm town
Going to go make some breakfast and then try to read this. Kind of sus of Menque pushing this as he knows my town and scum games and should not read my low activity as scum-indicative for me."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Hmm? Why’s this?In post 1295, maxwell wrote:it doesn't really make sense on its face and definitely doesn't make sense with her stated progression on tipsy"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Have you considered that if you have no basis for feeling that way you may not actually have a reason for not trusting me?In post 1301, TripleHaven wrote:cause i just don't trust you. like at all. i don't know what it is"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I don’t think the shot from Isis makes a lot of sense as scum unless she’s scum with bell tbh
It makes notably less sense if she’s scum with tipsy
But overall I don’t see why scum!isis shoots icon there > me/MT/datisi
I also don’t really get why town!isis shoots there unless her actual reason is true"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 23727
- Joined: May 15, 2019
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Madrid, Spain
Okay, so then why do you still not trust me? Or if you can accept that it’s just an emotional response that you’re having to something in the way I post can you try to set that aside and work with me until you think I’ve actually done things that are a solid basis for mistrusting me?In post 1307, TripleHaven wrote:
yesIn post 1305, Menalque wrote:Wait, that’s the wrong way round
Like if you have no reason for actually mistrusting me have you considered that the mistrust may not have a basis in, well, anything"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."