Mainstream Mafia II: D&D Edition [FIN]

[Bingle]

I didn’t motivate Rautherdir? Was I redirected?

You claimed to have motivated BB last night, I think. He disagrees. You will target Rauth tonight unless you are scum. I don't trust you not to be leashed because your power is ridiculously strong for cult.

I didn’t motivate Rautherdir? Was I redirected?

This is spicy.

Not really.

[Bingle]

If you motivate me I would very much like the opportunity out to potentially get another vig.

Lie detect > vig.

[Bingle]

UT, Dave, RCE, Pine, KA need to make "I am cobble Aligned Posts" today.

I think KA already did, but I'm not checking atm.

ML needs to make a post saying she can win with cobble.

[Bingle]

If you motivate me I would very much like the opportunity out to potentially get another vig.

Lie detect > vig.

It’s literally been proven false twice now, so... no

No it hasn't? The pk lie detect wasn't a lie, just a really stupid choice of post to detect. And Rauth literally dies tomorrow. I don't even know what the other "proven false" you think is.

Nah. I no-target. You’re right, it’s too powerful to be redirected to scum’s advantage, and if BB didn’t receive it, that’s what happened.

No. If you're a cultist and we let you no target, you just target CL. If Cult has a Redirector, it's in the same pool of players as the CL, which means they're also going to die shortly. If scum has a redirector, fine, whatever, they can at best use it to hunt for cult leader.

[Bingle]

Pine motivates me, KidAmn, EP, or Cephrir tonight

No. 2/4 are unclaimed. You're a vig who has high cult equity. KA is a JK who has high cult Equity. This is a good list of people who should never be motivated.

[Bingle]

day six vote count 6.04

"I waited five days for this, you slimy Aasimar fuck."

KA-THUNK. The arrow shot through the air and nailed it's intended target in the soft of their neck. She fell to the ground, reaching anywhere she could for assistance. When they all saw who she was... they watched her die. One less obstacle.

pisskop was shot in broad daylight!

They were

Nualia Tobyn:

Runelord-Aligned Role Cop

Dr Easy Bake (6) -

Almost50, Pink Ball, chennisden, EspressoPatronum,

chennisden (9)-

BBmolla, Cephrir, xofelf, RCE, Pine, Bingle, Gobble, ML, Elements

Untrod Tripod -

PB,

Day Six. 19 alive, 10 lynch.
(expired on 2019-12-28 22:00:00) until deadline (extended due to holiday).

UNVOTE:

Chenn was L-1 and is now L-2. We need some lie detect posts before EOD.

[Bingle]

It was. ML is currently not an SK.

And I don't care how sure you are. I'm playing around you being untrustworthy, because we probably win if you are trustworthy. If you're right, we win. If you're wrong, I want to win anyway, so we do the optimal strat. It's not rocket surgery.

[Bingle]

Is it possible that rauth is like, not sane?

He got an accurate result on me, and has picked possibly the worst lie detection posts possible since then. This is fairly consistent with his complete misunderstanding of how to break Lie detection on D1, but still suspicious AF.

He's > rand lying out of his ass. But, if he is lying out of his ass, he gets completely murderballed at night when he doesn't die hammering tomorrow, so it's a waste of time to try to outguess that. Further, if he's lying out of his ass he's probably GS over cult because GS is more capable of faking results and less worried about being killed as a useful role than CL.

If he flips not lie detector, I'm suddenly not clear. My result on Elements came after he was virtually outed, meaning I could theoretically be faking it. PK trying to seed doubt on me all day by saying I was cult and my case on PK (a few pages before gobbles, but I also said I didn't want to shoot him because he was probs groupscum over CL) should be a pretty decent indication that I'm not GS, but I'll fight that battle if/when it becomes necessary.

[Bingle]

I mean... He's probably scum. But it also probably doesn't matter aorn. And there is an outside chance that he's just really bad at night actions.

And as much as I want to believe Lie Detector has its place, that place is bastard mod games, so... Yeah, still just a bad role.

[Bingle]

Bingle is scum.

Nualia Tobyn (the Aasimar woman) is a well-armoured woman with white hair. This was pisskop's rolecop character. Bingle claimed motivated N1, but we know from the N1 flavour that a well-armoured, white-haired woman was motivated.

We have a guilty on Pine from KidAmn's JK. It makes sense that scum would give their motivation to their rolecop (pisskop the white-haired woman) and have another one of them fakeclaim it.

Bingle also claimed FBI on Elements the same night that Elements was jailed by KidAmn and attacked by Zoraster (scum).

This would make more sense if I hadn’t flavorclaimed days ago, white haired elves were uncommon, or there was any utility to doing any of this.

Still waiting on night results. EP’s scramble to cast shade at me is pretty lulzy. It’s kinda like pks.

[Bingle]

I'm Delilah "Chastity" Fenton, specifically noted to come from a homebrew. From the picture, I'm likely an elf (although the long white/silver hair covers my ears so I might be a human) and probably either a paladin or and inquisitor. Full plate, bigass sword.

Yo. Already full claimed my flavor.

[Bingle]

Still annoyed we didn’t go after DEB yesterday when he was so clearly the better option than Chennisden. But Bungle mEcHaNiCaL sOlVe

You’re not more annoyed with people burying my instructions, ending the day early, and A50 not getting shot?

Gamma kill was atrocious b/c we knew gamma wasn’t CL. You being ‘vindicated’ is dumb as fuck.

We’re waiting on massclaim of last nights actions before anything else.

[Bingle]

You know he's a claimed unjester, right? His wincon is literally: Get Shot.

[Bingle]

Not really. Ceph said something about A50 being less likely to be cult.

Also, I'm pretty sure that was me, based on him saying he'd recruit me, but w/e.

[Bingle]

Also, the SK is a problem, he's not incentivized to kill in towns interest.

He actually is. Cult ends the game before he potentially wins with ML at this rate. Scum ends the game before he potentially wins alone.

Biggest threat to group scum: CL.
Biggest threat to SK: CL.
Biggest threat to Town: CL.

Elements can totally still win this, but only if he takes out the things that are a bigger threat to us than he is, because they're also a bigger threat to him.

[Bingle]

So I definitely hid behind A50. What happened?

Fun times, DEB scumclaimed I think?

If he is weak and hid behind 3rd party he should be dead. I can't see a reason for A50 to fakeclaim 3p as town. We kinda can't afford to shoot him at this point, but we can afford to lynch him less.

Gobble, you actually a vig or was that a gambit?

[Bingle]

Also, stop fucking voting people. We have a shitton of antitown that want to rush through days and at least one, possibly two, hidden voting mechanism players who are almost 100% scum aligned.

[Bingle]

is DEB not confirmed scum at this point what is your deal

My deal is that there being a de facto lynch doesn't necessarily mean "Rush through the phase before everyone checks in."

We have 5 cult, 2 SKs, an Unjester, and however many scum remain (2? 3?) Town doesn't have voting power now. If there are things, like UT's role, that need to claim, we absolutely need to let them.

[Bingle]

@Dave, mostly up to date:

Updated:

At least one degree of role confirmation:

01. Pine - Motivator (Confirmed to exist)
09. BBmolla - Mason Flavor Cop (Confirmed to Exist)
19. Pink Ball -- INNOCENT CHILD (Confirmed to exist)
23. RCEnigma - Messenger (Confirmed to Exist)
32. gobbledygook - mason Vig (Confirmed to Exist)
26. Elements - SK (Confirmed via night result and ML claim)
40. EspressoPatronum - Dayvig+


Claimed but not confirmed

02. Untrod Tripod - PI
08. Rautherdir - Lie Detector (Confirmable via Death)
15. Bingle - FBI Agent
17. xofelf - Anti Cult Spotter
21. Dr Easy Bake (Weak Hider) (Confirmable via Death)
25. Miss Lynch - Backup SK, makes SK viable to win with town.
34. chennisden - Faith Healer
36. Almost50 - Martyr (Unjester?)
38. KidAmn - JK (Confirmable via targeting player with visible results (Bingle, Pine, BB)

Cult Copped but not Claimed

18. Gamma Emerald (Not Cult N1)
33. Cephrir (Not Cult N2)

Unclaimed and unconfirmed

24. davesaz

Notes for PB. Rauth is self resolving and probs dies tomorrow. A50 claimed Unjester which is much less scummy than survivor given he wants to die via vig/groupscum/sk and there’s an SK claim. I still support DEB suiciding behind A50. Also there are three cultists via xof.

Of your Should die, I’m vaguely trusting of UT’s not CL claim on Gamma.

@gobs: if cL flip shoot for group scum. If not cl shoot in groups 2 and 4.

Confirmations in descending order of strength:

34. chennisden - De facto lynch, so no need to sort.
19. Pink Ball (Mod Confirmed not CL or Groupscum)
09. BBmolla (Mutually confirmed not CL or Groupscum with Gobbles)
32. gobbledygook (Mutually Confirmed not CL or Groupscum with BB)
26. Elements - SK (Confirmed via admission and my own Night action result)
40. EspressoPatronum (Confirmed Not CL or Groupscum via Rauth. Soft Confirmed Not groupscum via successful Dayvig)
15. Bingle (Confirmed Not CL or Groupscum via Rauth, Rauth is self resolving)
21. Dr Easy Bake (Dies tonight)
36. Almost50 (Dies tonight)
08. Rautherdir (Dies tomorrow without expending a vig/lynch)
18. Gamma Emerald (Not Cult N1 via UT, not cult prior to yesterday via combination of UT and xof)
33. Cephrir (Not Cult N2 via UT, not cult prior to yesterday via combination of UT and xof)
17. xofelf (Not Cult Today if UT is town)


That leaves lie detection in (Ordered via my preference, with reasoning):

02. Untrod Tripod - HIGH PRIORITY SORT. Knowing he's currently town gives us an higher degree of accuracy on the cult list than any other invest. He could also theoretically be CL with a ballsy claim, but that's really unlikely. If IC'd, probably not killed by GS early because he doesn't threaten them at all but does provide a weapon against their enemies.
24. davesaz - Suspicious, and probs not dying tonight given gobble trusts RC flavor message. Good Lie detect target.
23. RCEnigma - There's a thing here that's not worth claiming. Me and RCE crumbed a thing back and forth, and I'm going to out part of it, but I'd rather he be conftown if possible.
25. Miss Lynch - Probably killed by scum at some point, but I wouldn't mind sorting this. Very high cult equity.
01. Pine - Unarguably the best cult recruit, but probably not CL and almost certainly not GS based on the fact that he's provably motivating town and moderately confirmed town.
38. KidAmn - Very much doubt this is GS with a flipped roleblocker. Very much don't care if this is recruit with confirmable role.

[Bingle]

There are 4 cult.

Also I'm at my inlaws until Tuesday and then my son has some minor surgery on Thursday, V/LA for a while. Will check in as much as I can, but who knows how much you'll get out of me.

noted. thoughts n prayers ~ chk

Do you know something we don’t Bingle?

I know many things you don't gobble. It's not particularly uncommon.

[Bingle]

Bingle didn’t seem to correct it. He said it after Xofelf announced

I didn't think it bore correcting. I have no method of knowing how many cultists there are outside of public information.

[Bingle]

Ceph isn't an SK, btw.

[Bingle]

This game isn't about killing scum. It's about killing scum in the right order.

[Bingle]

Just pointing out that there's an off chance Rauth is CL and if he is the scumteam should 100% shoot him tonight because they need the CL dead just as much as we do.

[Bingle]

This basically confirms Bingle in my mind

Go look at pk and zor interactions. I'm still obviously town.

[Bingle]

Hell, I gunned hard for Rauth D1 before RCE fake inno'd him too.

[Bingle]

BB is the only vanilla-ized claim. Which, given that he was a mason who made it explicit he could be culted, makes sense as a recruit.

I'm mostly waiting for UT and Pine, who have yet to post this dayphase, but we also need a pool for KA to CL hunt in if DEB flips town and a target pool for Rauth/Elements.

Everything else is pretty secondary.

[Bingle]

A50, JSYK, maf and SK also need to townside during the day because if cult grows too quickly they lose.

[Bingle]

I mean you could be a cultist and BB could be trying to protect his people. Since I accused him he’s gone stone silent in our PT :/

Wait, BB still has access to your PT? I had assumed vanilla-izer would remove the access since he's not a mason any more.

[Bingle]

Those are both terrible cult leader shots.

What is the name of your role, ML?

[Bingle]

UT still hasn't claimed his action. ML hasn't claimed role name, which is 100% happening today.

I'd support shooting in UT/Ceph if non CL flip.

I'd support shooting in BBMolla/RCE/UT/xof/Pine if CL flip.

[Bingle]

He also has fair scum equity by being so entrenched with Raur and pisskop

Point out where I have scum equity through pisskop.

Raur at least faked an inno on me, so I can kinda get that (Although I also explained why that made him unlikely cult and thus not a priority).

As for cult equity, I can't be recruited, and RCE can confirm as the other Nero recipient that I softed such to him. I got a ring of anti domination on N1.

[Bingle]

Point. Leaves us with potentially UT/xof/ML cult leader.

Outside chance of me, ig. KA should target me on a non cult leader flip. Kill UT and xof? Rauth on UT?

[Bingle]

Nah, outing your result here was right. I'm just annoyed it was on me. Probably still not gonna eat a nightkill for it because I've been really low impact + cult, but :shrugs:.

RCE, was your invention a ring? Don't claim what it does, I just want to know if it's likely we got the same power.

It was not a ring, I got boots. This is troubling actually.

Bingle is your dominance fleeting?

Bingle is your dominance fleeting?

I understand your question but decline to answer. I AM notified whenever I use it though.

[Bingle]

~snip~

It's a passive, but I'm notified when it's used.

I suppose we could add dave to the list of outside possibilities, but dave as CL requires gobble to also be cult.

Not technically, actually. Gobble only really has a flavor result, he's assuming princess flavor makes Dave town. Kinda don't want to dig into that bag of worms when dave is a claimed beloved princess though.

Elements kill Raur tonight.

Why would elements do this? It's not to his advantage, but more importantly it's not to town's advantage. Elements needs to hit cult, not scum, both for his sake and ours.

He's at L-3.

Are we seriously trusting a guy who claimed scum? Dude I don't give a flying fuck what happens today, if we don't lynch Rauth tomorrow y'all getting banned. I think Rauth is the Cult Leader and he's going for the smarties. Yeah I said it.

I've considered it. It's not outside the realm of possibility. However, if Rauth is cult leader there's almost certainly another group scum alive and they can shoot him. They should shoot him because there are more cult than scum aorn by any reasonable expectation of game state.

I also don't believe him when he says he's the last group scum because 6 is very low for the number of players. 7-8 groupscum is my bet.

[Bingle]

We should be lynching DEB, Shooting UT and one more. One more is kinda iffy to me, but I think the best arguments are for A50 and xof.

xof/UT both cult is our worst case scenario here, because the assumption that we only have 4 cult is predicated on their being town (at least an an earlier date). Xof underselling the number of cultists is totally a great cultxof play to keep the focus off of them early, if she's cult leader.

A50 dying is nice for A50, and tbh there's a part of me that doesn't believe he's an Unjester. I'm pretty solid that he's not CL though, so there is that.

Pisskop's results confirm Ceph isn't cult leader more than anything else. Ceph was already confirmed not cult leader unless his first two recruits were UT and xof (in which case fucking lol, that gambit deserved to win).

UT is at least recruited given reluctance to announce a target today, but is probably not the leader given that he hasn't you know, claimed a result. I no longer care about him claiming a result, but him being shot over the night phase is a >>> rand equity shot. Theoretically, all of Rauth, myself, ML, dave and KA are unconfirmed to be not Cult Leader as well, and thus worthy of being shot as well, but there's arguments against all of them.

Rauth will be shot by groupscum if he is not groupscum.
I've been firmly in my town meta for a while now, although there is no one here who could vouch for that. Still, I obviously don't support shooting me.
KA being cult leader necessitates Pine cult, and JK not being in the setup would be kind of weird. KA can confirm himself not cult leader to me by blocking me as well, although a green Pine flip does the same thing. I don't think we're getting a green Pine flip.
ML needs to claim role name.
Killing dave if he's town loses us the game.

[Bingle]

Why would elements do this? It's not to his advantage, but more importantly it's not to town's advantage. Elements needs to hit cult, not scum, both for his sake and ours.

Why do you think this? If we hit cult today, do you still believe this?
If we hit cult leader today, do you still believe this?

Yes. There are presumably 4 cult. There are potentially 6 cult (Two nights of unsure motivation). Cult is absolutely the biggest threat. If there are six cult, it's certainly {Pine/UT/xof/KA/Two more}

Further, we as town can't trust Ele to shoot Rauth when Rauth is not a threat to Ele's wincon at all, so in the case that we lynch CL, he is the last person we should trust to shoot there.

[Bingle]

UT is town

Don’t know where he is but at least he was town earlier might be culted now

Because...?

[Bingle]

Ceph was already confirmed not cult leader unless his first two recruits were UT and xof (in which case fucking lol, that gambit deserved to win).

while also being menalque and insidejob?

Hey man, if I'm already ignoring the pk result fullclearing you from being cl to make a joke, I can certainly ignore flipped cult recruits for the same reason.

[Bingle]

Yes. There are presumably 4 cult. There are potentially 6 cult (Two nights of unsure motivation). Cult is absolutely the biggest threat. If there are six cult, it's certainly {Pine/UT/xof/KA/Two more}

xof's character has never made two marks in a single night in the flavor

xof wouldn't necessarily be the cult recruiter, but would necessarily be cult if we had more than 4 cult remaining.

Why the assumption that culting vanilla-izes?

[Bingle]

^tbc, there is a specific reason that it almost certainly doesn't.

[Bingle]

Bingle yeeting himself into the convo to shade everyone and anyone possible

Pics?

[Bingle]

Respectfully, A50, you're moonlogicking all over the thread.

If there are 5 cult, xof necessarily is one of them. As is Pine via occam's. UT is crazy high cult equity because he's a claimed cult cop, and he's in the kill pool regardless of flip because he's spent the entire day phase not claiming a result, and thus isn't town. He's also one of the people who CAN be cult leader.

The list of people who CAN be cult leader is:

DEB, UT, xof, Rauth, myself, ML, dave and KA

[Bingle]

not an assumption, but i kinda thought that explained bbmolla, and the wording of their flips is weird

TSE being recruited doesn't make sense if culting vanilla-izes since he would obviously be shown to be vanilla immediately.

[Bingle]

UT has failed repeatedly to out his target last night.

UT is compromised.

Agree/Disagree

[Bingle]

Btw, if cult can continue to grow after CL is dead without severe restrictions, we're probably just straight boned.

[Bingle]

Yeah, I realized that. The last two nights are our only unaccounted for motivations.

[Bingle]

If there are 5 cultists, Pine/xof both have to be cult. If there are 6 cultists, Pine/xof/KA all have to be cult.

Who claimed to be redirected again?

[Bingle]

@A50

UT has failed repeatedly to out his target last night.

UT is compromised.

Agree/Disagree

[Bingle]

I think ML needs to claim their role name. Yes, there is actually a reason I want this.
I think KA needs to specify his JK type. If he's an alien, he can pick a target and I will confirm that said target is untargetable or not if I live through the night.

[Bingle]

I probably would have gone for JOAT or inventor, personally. Inventor because it gives me knowledge of what the inventions are like and JOAT for a potentially powerful 1 shot activation. Nothing that's flipped strikes me as incredibly useful atm, though.

A50, why does town UT not claim a result after it's been asked of him?

Or if he backed up a cultist on the eve of a cultist win. Can you imagine the big brain plays

UB almost always takes role but not alignment.

[Bingle]

so why refrain from doing so

Either because he doesn't think he can survive (likely true) or so that he can distract from the CL as a recruited cultist.

Or because he's a recruited cultist who can't be assed to bother.

[Bingle]

Watching Bingle derail the DEB wagon again is really disheartening.

Are you capable of reading? Like at all?

DEB is getting lynched, we're talking about night actions after that. I want someone to shoot UT tonight, and I don't want DEB to be lynched until we're ready to end the day.

You know, like how chenn was lynched before we were ready to end the day? Because there's a claimed hammerer?

[Bingle]

Day 7 Vote Count 7.01

Dr Easy Bake (L-2) -

BBmolla, Elements, EspressoPatronum, UT, A50, gobble

Untrod Tripod -

Pine

xofelf is v/la

Day 7. 17 alive, 9 lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-07 02:17:32)

2 votes to autohammer, btw.

[Bingle]

We don't need to know ML's exact role today, so we can deal with that tomorrow.

No.

[Bingle]

I think ML needs to claim their role name. Yes, there is actually a reason I want this.
I think KA needs to specify his JK type. If he's an alien, he can pick a target and I will confirm that said target is untargetable or not if I live through the night.

I'm NOT ok with ending the day before both of these things happen.

[Bingle]

Now, before your series of posts, only Pine started talking about voting UT instead of DEB, while literally everyone else was only ever considering UT as a vig shot. I'd like to distract from actually relevant conversation.

FTFY.

[Bingle]

We might be autowin, don't get Rauth close to hammer yet.

[Bingle]

Alrighty. We lynch Rauth.
RCE flavor messages about me to EP.
UT investigates whoever the fuck he wants. (Gobble? I'd prefer Gobble.)
Pine motivates KA.
KA jk's dave and Ele.
All town players holster shots.

No kill:

We No lynch
RCE sends my flavor to another player
UT continues copping.
Pine continues motivating, KA continues blocking.

Orcus Kill:

KA/Pine has confirmed scum in it.

Non Orcus Kill: Runelords aren't completely dead.

We can either have all town players with kills holster, or have one shoot A50 to test his 3p claim. Runelords can't afford to holster their kills. Cultists can't afford to holster their kills, if they have them.

Thoughts?

[Bingle]

The logic that cult could potentially have a kill comes from the fact that multiple people have claimed to have killing roles and cult could have potentially recruited them, and the TSE recruit at least soft implies that cult doesn't vanilla-ize when recruiting.

If cult has a kill, they necessarily will use it because otherwise they wouldn't have a way around "Cop Every Player" the plan. Of course, if UT is culted they could just wait it out but that's an arbitrarily large number of phases to do nothing.

[Bingle]

Bingle, did you check me last night? If not, what did you do?

I got Not SK on Pine. Wasn't aware there was a reason to check if you're SK. Wasn't aware there was a reason to check Pine either, FWIW, but I'm compulsive, so... :shrug:

[Bingle]

@Bingle where are you in the night flavour?

Honestly haven't been reading it. Other people have been covering that and there are explicitly potential red herrings in it so I don't care about it tbh.

I full flavor claimed days ago and am The Fonz's sister.

[Bingle]

town numbers vs cult vs scum vs 3p

Theoretically?

9-3:2-4:1-4:1-4

In practice?

9-7:2:1-3:3

[Bingle]

Potential Runelord analysis (and yes, we're necessarily runelord hunting)

01. Pine
02. Untrod Tripod
15. Bingle
17. xofelf
23. RCEnigma
24. davesaz
25. Miss Lynch
33. Cephrir
36. Almost50
38. KidAmn


08. Rautherdir - Runelord, getting lynched today
19. Pink Ball -- INNOCENT CHILD
26. Elements - SK
32. gobbledygook - Cannot be Runelords
40. EspressoPatronum - Cannot be Runelords

I feel fairly confident that zor/UT isn't S/S.
Ceph being a genuine pk target just makes sense, which means he's probably town.
I think I should be obvtown based on pk's attempts to discredit me and the fact that I was the first to case him. I'm happy to be flavor confed by RCE to stop the bugbear means he's scum nonsense though.
UT is > rand not gs based on setup symmetry.
Pine isn't gs based on everyone he's motivated isn't groupscum.
KA probably isn't gscum based on JK/Roleblocker symmetry.
Dave is interesting as potential groupscum, but I'm honestly not worried if he is.
Miss Lynch CAN'T endgame, so if she's groupscum we literally don't care.
A50 probably needs to be vigged tonight just to resolve the remaining paranoia about him fakeclaiming.

There's a decent chance that Rauth actually is the last group scum.

[Bingle]

Confirming that chk didn’t mod error, but this looks like either KA or Ceph scum fmpov.

KA are you an alien or a regular jk?

[Bingle]

Night action list:

Pine motivates KA
KA JKs Bingle and dave
Ceph blocks ____. (maybe ML?)
RC writes a message about Bingle and sends it to me/gobble/PB
I book Bingle + go for a defensive power
UT checks gobble
gobble fishes for something confirmable via night flavour
Elements kills A50

I’d prefer ceph blocking elements. Can you book no lynch?

[Bingle]

Not will you, but can you. As in, are you allowed to choose no lynch as your bookie choice?

[Bingle]

'Cause I think we're in a good position to just make a lynch order and win. We have enough people who are mechanically town at this point

We probably win this way.

We definitely win if we take it slow and confirm things.

If Rauth lynch means no kills, we just take the time to deal with the cultists as I suggested. There's no reason not to.

I'll be investigating A50, JIC, tonight. If I'm blocked, elements is blocked, dave is blocked, and there's still a nightkill, that proves I'm not last scum, at the very least. If there isn't a nightkill, there's no reason not to No Lynch (Or lynch me to prove the sheepableness of my plan) and do the same thing until UT catches all the cult (or runs out of names to check, proving himself to be compromised). The fact that both of KA and Ceph imply I shouldn't have received a result last night is interesting, but doesn't really change anything.

[Bingle]

Explain. I had thought Ceph might have been culted before, but BBm's flip made me reconsider, and I don't think Cult!Ceph ever fakes a block that he didn't submit either.

If I was roleblocked, I wouldn't have received an inno on Pine. If Pine was targeted by an alien JK (stops all actions, not just killing ones) I wouldn't have received an inno on Pine.

I'm checking that there wasn't a mod error, because if there wasn't, it looks like one of the two was lying about there action last night. (Either Ceph blocked KA or KA blocked Ceph. Or both lied?) The reason I'm checking for a mod error is that I've had several night actions come in late, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

[Bingle]

Also, it's worth noting that if you're telling the truth, A50, 12012 might have lost you the game single handedly, because I can't see a way to guarantee you never get lynched as I can't trust you fully. The game can't end tonight, (we still have two cultitsts) so you would have been safe waiting til tomorrow.

It is because of that, and the fact that you seem to have been undermining all attempts to let you win via vig, that I pretty much fully agree with Pine's analysis of your claim.

[Bingle]

Best I can say is don't lynch A50 before cultists if we're not having people get nightkilled.

[Bingle]

If we want to get rid of night kills, lets lynch Elements then. I don't want him to win

No, we lynch Rauth.

We know we can stop Elements vig via JK/roleblocker. We don't

KNOW

we can stop Runelord kill via JK/roleblocker. Similarly, we know we can stop Rauth from killing via lynch, but lynching Ele supposedly gives ML a kill. If Rauth is last GS, getting rid of him is a higher priority.

Besides, I'm

always

in favor of letting benign 3p roles win with me.

[Bingle]

2- How have I been undermining my win via the Vig exactly? I think you did it the night before last 9when you included Gamma as a target whether or not the lynchee flipped CL) and then someone/something stopped Elements shot on me last night (probably because they realized they need more lynches lines up to have a shot at winning this). I had nothing to do with either of those, so how is it my fault?

First of all, I didn't support the Gamma kill. I wanted a cultist shot, and Gamma was cleared as not cult leader. That's probably the only real reason to suspect me as group scum right now, besides Rauth claiming an inno on me (Which, I still say, is not actually a reason to suspect me).

Second, you've been pushing me for trying to get you shot at night pretty much since you claimed, saying that it's because I was trying to protect my partners when you damn well know my thoughts on giving benign 3p's the win given the fact I spent 3/4 of OK1 trying to let 3p claims win.

Third, you could have claimed tomorrow just as easily as today if the situation you proposed came up. Instead, you claimed right after EP suggested a way to try to let Elements shoot you tonight (which wouldn't have worked, because he's proven himself unreliable, but still).

[Bingle]

chk confirms no mod error. I acted last night and got a result. There is some shenanigans within the setup about KA/Ceph/me.

Why would we give Elements the chance to win if he hasn't cooperated with town

Because ML can't win with town without Elements. And ML has been crazy cooperative. Basically, I want Enter to win if possible, and Elements has to win to let that happen.

If we want to get rid of night kills, lets lynch Elements then. I don't want him to win

No, we lynch Rauth.

We know we can stop Elements vig via JK/roleblocker. We don't

KNOW

we can stop Runelord kill via JK/roleblocker. Similarly, we know we can stop Rauth from killing via lynch, but lynching Ele supposedly gives ML a kill. If Rauth is last GS, getting rid of him is a higher priority.

Besides, I'm

always

in favor of letting benign 3p roles win with me.

We don't know if they're benign

Hence, blocking them. Seriously though, if they're somehow a role that can win without town at 10 players alive, I'll take the loss and be quietly furious with myself while not feeling bad about risking it anyway.


Either way, I don't really support making a hard and fast lynch order yet, given we might be able to literally take 20 this shit and autowin by preventing scum from acting for the rest of the game.

i'll block elements tonight but i'd like to switch off with KA in the future

VOTE: rauth

Don't see a problem with shuffling the blocks around since a successful action by the person who is supposed to be blocked should be visible and is a scumclaim on the part of the blocker.

[Bingle]

Wasn't RC like almost conftown at this point?

RCE is soft confed not cult (mutually with me) because he became unrecruitable N2 (Or guessed really fucking well) and all living cultists at that point are accounted for. He claims his flavor (Lady Estelle without checking my PM immediately) should conf him as not scum, but I don't trust flavor clears. Dave is supposedly BeP, which is a very strong survival claim and is somewhat backed up by gobble.

ML/Ele are 3p claimed. I'm moderately tinfoiling ML is Runelord, but she can't endgame regardless so I'm not particularly worried.

[Bingle]

It has been a fun game overall. Hope we win.

Agreed.

This is an outrageously long game, and yet we still have almost universal participation. There's a crazy amount of awesome people here, and when you look at the flipped players that's not because we've trimmed off the chaff.

We had a 40 person player list and I don't think I would have changed a single name. We had literally 3 replacements in almost 500 pages. Regardless of how this game ends, EVERYONE involved is fucking awesome, and this is a solid contender for 2020's GOTY. We're definitely starting this year off right and you all are great people.

PB, I think now would be an excellent time for a Appreciation Page.

[Bingle]

Night action list:

Pine motivates KA
KA JKs Bingle and dave
Ceph blocks Ele
RC writes a message about Bingle and sends it to me/gobble/PB
I book Bingle + go for a defensive power
UT checks gobble
gobble fishes for something confirmable via night flavour

Repost for visibility.

[Bingle]

...We're sure he's not jester, right? I mean...he's actually advocating for his lynch as claimed scum here.

Never mind. An actual jester would have been shot by the Runelords.

...Probably

Also, Jester in a 40p is either benign or the biggest fuck you possible to the players.

[Bingle]

Rauth: Pine, EP, Gobble, Rauth, Ceph, RCE, ML, Dave

Hammer is real.

[Bingle]

Night action list:

- Pine motivates KA
- KA JKs Bingle and dave
- Ceph blocks Elements
- RC writes a message about Bingle and sends it to me/gobble/PB
- I book Bingle + go for a defensive power
- UT checks gobble
- gobble fishes for something confirmable via night flavour
- Elements kills A50 (but will probably get blocked)

Edited to reflect the recent advancements

[Bingle]

If this isn't BS, you should actually spell it out.

None of the flips have had role information, just names.

[Bingle]

So...

UT, have you been blocked yet? Cause I just got a weird result PM and the most likely meaning is that I was blocked, which we should be able to use to confirm that I was actually blocked.

A50 showed as inconclusive to my SK check.

[Bingle]

01. Pine - Cayden Caliean, Cobble-Aligned Motivator
02. Untrod Tripod - Cult Cop
15. Bingle - SK Cop
17. xofelf - Knows # of cult
19. Pink Ball -- INNOCENT CHILD
23. RCEnigma - Flavor Messenger
24. davesaz - Beloved Princess
25. Miss Lynch, who is/replaced Enter - Backup SK who makes SK Benign
26. Elements - SK, who is potentially benign
32. gobbledygook - Mason JOAT, flipped mason partner is BB, claimed mason partner is EP.
33. Cephrir - Activated Universal Backup.
36. Almost50 - Claims Survivor, probably isn't
38. KidAmn - Jailkeeper
40. EspressoPatronum - Bookie Mason

I see absolutely no reason not to lynch the cult guilty and chain re target to let UT find the last cultist so long as no one is getting killed.

Furthermore, RCE's flavor message about me needs to be outed, xof needs to claim number of cult remaining and EP needs to answer as to whether he can Book No Lynch.

[Bingle]

Bingle- scum

[Bingle]

@KidAmn/Ceph: If either of you targeted Bingle last night, please claim it now.

KA was supposed to.

Ceph claims he blocked me the night before. KA claims he JK'd Pine the night before. I had a successful action on Pine. This implies there is one scum in Ceph/Bingle/KA, but we literally don't have to check it until the cult is fully dead if no one is getting killed. There's absolutely no reason not to check the double guilty veracity of EP/UT unless you think I A) have a scumpartner and B) didn't kill anyways when not killing from my POV would be literally the stupidest idea ever.

If I'm the last runelord, you have me neutered and we can take our time and root out scum before we kill me.

[Bingle]

You've kind of invented the idea that KidAmn is not a standard jailkeeper and I'm not aware of him having ever said anything of the sort.

Alien was the standard JK in 2013, for one, but also KA blocking you is the other explanation why your rb wouldn't take.

If you're not lying, KA is the only explanation I can see.

[Bingle]

For the umpteenth time for the people in the back, Bungle is scum.

Yup. I'm scum who has clearly been angling for the way to keep scum from winning all game.

I kept ele/ML alive when they were actively tightening the lynch pool for cult leader around a group that contained mostly people on my team. I claimed flavor early and accurately even after people started trying to divine nightkills through flavor. I did just as much as you did to keep town together and winning.

Your salt is cute, gobbles.

[Bingle]

if you guys play this right the game is for all intents and purposes nightless

Not quite right, actually. If we play this right, this game has infinite activations of every remaining power role with no nightkills.

If EP can book no lynch, he can investigate ad nauseam.

[Bingle]

OR, maybe NOT. The theory is still ALIVE. gobble gets lynched, UT gets confirmed (falsely), dave gets lynched, everybody goes mad, but absolutely nobody thinks UT is the remaining cult still.

Nah, we have UT investigate dave tonight. If dave flips town he's literally the only player who could be responsible.

[Bingle]

I’m annoyed my town wincon was taken from me when I did so much for town.

You claimed conftown on D1. You should have seen becoming cult coming and I have no sympathy for you.

And yeah, attempting to solve 4 slots at once was 100% the right play instead of gambling on you being right that it was DEB (who trolls hard regardless of alignment) over Chenn (who was so fucking not here that it hurt). So... IDGAF about your hurt feelings.

[Bingle]

It’s literally madness to lynch me when there ARE FUCKING MAFIA OUT THERE

First of all, no it isn't, your role is unconfirmed and you claimed to be able to kill people earlier.

Second of all, we actually don't have confirmation there are mafia out there still. Even if there are (Likely this is the case) they're actively not killing anyone and thus not working towards their wincon.

If I had a partner as scum, I'd have had them kill someone. If I'm scum and alone, I'm just as neutered as you.

Unlike you, if I'm telling the truth I have a reason to want town to win.

[Bingle]

Like the only way you believe that is if you’re scum sooo

Or I have no faith in DEB's competence and didn't bother reading him.

[Bingle]

He sent it to me the night I was culted

Again I'm not following. Don't you guys share a PT as cult? If you do, why would any mod give the CL a messenger ability to use on the night their target?

A50, why are you trying to catch the outed cult in a lie incriminating him as cult? It's a waste of time and a distraction.



Literally the only thing that matters today is whether we make the correct decision and lynch gobble, or you chucklefucks listen to him and lynch me, despite the fact that I'm town.

[Bingle]

Lynch Gobble
Ceph blocks Me
Pine motivates KA
KA blocks Ele/Dave
UT checks Dave
EP books an investigative role.

This isn't difficult.

If I'm the last groupscum, I literally don't have an out from here. If I'm not the last groupscum, my partner killing someone would have confirmed me as not the last groupscum on a night when all the protections were known.

Believing I'm scum means believing I'm actively gamethrowing.

Gobble, otoh, claimed cult after an incriminating result from UT last night and EP the night before.

[Bingle]

I literally killed Zoraster/Korina, got Pisskop to scumclaim and got Raur to scumclaim. Have been calling for obvscum A50 lynch for days now yet he is still alive literally spewing junk that is not relevant. Called the CL flip. Called the cult BB. Both of these before i was culted. So yeah. I’m annoyed my town wincon was taken from me when I did so much for town.

Amrun guiltied Zor, which tbf I didn't believe but really drops the level of Oh WOW there. I mechanically proved PK scum before he died, but ignored it because finding CL was way more important. Raur claimed that he was going to die via using his power days before you suspected him (and I caught him D1 until RCE faked an inno on him). Calling a claimed mason as a scum recruit takes all the brains of your avatar. And you were so masterfully compelling with the DEB case that you managed to not leverage conftown status into the lynch, so clearly I deserve all the blame for your loss.

You should also take credit for the Gamma shot, because he was obvscum at the end and it was a crazy bad vigshot despite that.

So... Good job on the Korina kill? You really won this game for town, and no one else was involved whatsoever.

[Bingle]

all logic would say to lynch literally elsewhere

No logic says that.

If scum could kill, they would have. You haven't addressed this at all.

[Bingle]

Bungle at what point do you start lynching the sk twins? And then when the game doesn’t end they lynch you?

B
U
N
G
L
E
Bungle was his name o

After I die, actually.

My proposed lynch order is thus:

Gobble -> X No Lynches -> Cult Guilty -> Bingle -> Probably RCE, but it depends on EP/RCE results -> ML -> Ele -> A50

Obviously preempted by any nightkill. If I die prematurely, KA and Ceph should cross target.

[Bingle]

Actually what are chk’s modkilled rules cause I could just do that and it shouldn’t end the day and then y’all can kill bungle

Intentionally getting a modkill usually results in a siteban, so don't do that.

[Bingle]

If UT investigates dave and it comes back clear we don't lynch dave?

Also, I can't get my way because everyone else is impatient, but if EP/RCE get infinite investigations then we literally can't lose.

[Bingle]

Actually, I'm not sure if you being modkilled would end the day. Traditionally town modkills do and scum modkills don't, but I'm not sure what the general consensus is for cult modkills.

[Bingle]

So you do believe i am cult

Yes.

[Bingle]

You could be faking the vanilla-ization.
Killing you/2nd cult and dropping the player list to 10 tells us whether ML and Ele need to be killed or if they can win with town.
If there are no more scum, this is the only way to give A50 the potential survivor win.
If there ARE more scum, they can't let us have however many additional investigations this plan will net us. If there are more scum, them killing while I'm under a semi permanent block gives me a soft clear. (Can't be last scum).
Both remaining cultists need to be dealt with for town to win, and if scum isn't actively killing they might as well be dealt with now.

[Bingle]

The simple explanation as to how I'm different to you is that I'm town.

The slightly less sarcastic explanation is that there's doubt I'm scum.

We have an identical level of potential danger, but the rest of the players KNOW that you have to be lynched to let town win, where at best they suspect that I have to be lynched.

Why did Bingle with a partner No Kill last night (or submit a kill that he almost 100% knew would be blocked?)

Why does Bingle without a partner put forth a plan that serves only to delay his lynch and make sure that he has to continue efforting for 3 more phases at least with no hope of winning?

[Bingle]

So you should be the first to go and then rce and then you can kill me and Dave

Nope, for two reasons.

It's still possible for me/RCE to be confirmed as town.

And actually, now that I think about it, we should probably lynch one of Ceph/KA instead of RCE, given that my townflip soft incriminates them. Probably Ceph.

[Bingle]

We have confirmed that Scum knew Ceph's role. That's not proof positive that the scum rolecop targeted Ceph.

Assume for the moment that I'm town, as this will be known information when the decision is important.

I wasn't blocked yesterday. By the claims of the two blocking roles, I should have been. What is your alternative explanation to one of the two blocking roles being scum?

[Bingle]

Yes he can. KA has never claimed to be a variant jailkeeper. Bingle made that up.

This is just objectively wrong. On my townflip, Ceph/KA become a 1v1 and so should crosstarget. Which means Pine can go ahead and target UT.

[Bingle]

Also, giving up confscum for potentially confirmable town is really dumb, and if we lose this I'm going to rub it in all of your faces for being idiots and listening to the guy who literally claimed scum after getting two investigations on him.

[Bingle]

I kinda stopped giving a shit, Pine.

I made the game literally unwinnable for myself if I'm scum and you're lynching me first over literally confirmed scum anyway.

I wash my hands of everything.

[Bingle]

Lynch Gobble.
Lynch UT's next guilty after, don't lynch until that guilty exists.
Then lynch in KA/Ceph. That should get rid of ML/Ele. The blockers need to cross target until they're getting lynched. Lynch A50 if both die and the game is still going.

Abandon this strat if a NK goes through, as there will necessarily be two scum left alive.

[Bingle]

Nobody died!

[Bingle]

Show me where KA has ever claimed to be an alien.

He didn't. I asked him to specify roughly 50 times yesterday and he never responded. Because he's never talked at all about which variant he is.

[Bingle]

Like literally elements is a 400% mechanically better lynch than gobble.

That's a pants shittingly bad take, and I really hope you're scum. You do have to keep blocking Ele though, so I guess you can't cross target.

I love watching town snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Bingle]

Three players were roleblocked!

Yes. Three players who I'm proposing still get roleblocked tonight. I'm proposing a way to kill off two of the antitown slots without letting the status quo of Scum No Killing change. And you're trying to shift that away from mafia having to be accountable for their actions.

I'M LITERALLY NEUTERED IF SCUM. I DON'T HAVE AN OUT. THAT MEANS THAT IF I'M ARGUING A STRAT THAT DOESN'T GIVE ME AN OUT, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY LISTEN TO IT BECAUSE IT'S TRUSTWORTHY.

[Bingle]

Please explain to me how it's mechanically better to lynch two scum with no kill over two scum that do have a kill.

1st, how do you know there are two mafia remaining?

2nd, mafia didn't use their kill last night, thus they CAN'T use their kill for some reason (probably you're not multitasking and not blocking someone who gets a visible block result damns you).

3rd, Ele and ML can win without making town lose if ML is telling the truth and we can test that without screwing ourselves by killing cult first.

[Bingle]

You could be faking the vanilla-ization.
Killing you/2nd cult and dropping the player list to 10 tells us whether ML and Ele need to be killed or if they can win with town.
If there are no more scum, this is the only way to give A50 the potential survivor win.
If there ARE more scum, they can't let us have however many additional investigations this plan will net us. If there are more scum, them killing while I'm under a semi permanent block gives me a soft clear. (Can't be last scum).
Both remaining cultists need to be dealt with for town to win, and if scum isn't actively killing they might as well be dealt with now.

The logic isn't difficult, and the idea that all of you can't do simple math is fucking ridiculous.

[Bingle]

THAT MEANS THAT IF I'M ARGUING A STRAT THAT DOESN'T GIVE ME AN OUT, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY LISTEN TO IT BECAUSE IT'S TRUSTWORTHY.

I don't know that you don't have an out. What if you can move more votes than I realize and all you need is one more day and you control the lynch? What if scum have a day 10 dayvig? IDFK. I know exactly what the cultists can do and it's nothing.

What if mafia had 14 players at the start of the game hurrdurr.

[Bingle]

If I had a partner who could kill, why didn't they especially as it softclears me as not the scum who killed?

If I can't kill, how am I more threatening than the known cult?

[Bingle]

My worst case scenario is you and a partner as mafia, in which case you no killed because killing softclears me softincriminating you. Lynching me removes that hurdle and lets you act with impunity.

And yeah, there's probably a mafia player left because otherwise there's no reason I shouldn't have been blocked the night before last.

[Bingle]

See

this

is how you gaslight Town when you’re caught. I almost bought some of that.

But like... what's my out if I'm scum here? I'd do all of this if I had some way to win. But there is no way scum Bingle wins from here.

[Bingle]

Also, just for the sick rub ins, both of you know that if I was backed into a corner as scum, I'd just lynch the cop cleared A50 for the win.

[Bingle]

We should totally bring back the best performance in a lost cause scummy on a note completely unrelated to this exchange.

[Bingle]

because he was one of my 2 targets to jail last night after I recieved Pine's motivate.

That's actually consistent with my information. The question was whether you prevent actions other than nightkills on your target, because I successfully SK-copped Pine the night you claimed you blocked him when Ceph claims to have rb-d me. You getting involved is the only alternative to Ceph scum I see as possible, and I'm not sure how Ceph came to the conclusion that faking a guilty on me would lead to him not dying if he's scum.

[Bingle]

I'm not opposed to letting Elements shoot Gobble just so we don't have to deal with him (presumably) literally throwing the game for what's left of cult until he either gets tired of it or gets lynched

No. Ele has proven leash resistant and you’ll know I’m conftown and thus trustworthy. Ceph blocks Ele. You block Dave and A50.

[Bingle]

Also literally ignore every word gobble posts when I flip town. He’s not townsiding, he’s siding against me specifically because he blames me for his being culted.

[Bingle]

When has he made a bad kill?

Creature was a bad kill.

GE was a bad kill in that he should have been shooting for the CL and Gamma was objectively not the CL. Also, he was supposed to be leashed that night (to A50) and then, you know, didn't do that, which is the more important distinction.

I'm fine with you having the joint win, but you're gonna have to wait for town to get there through lynching because Elements has proven that he's incapable of being trusted to shoot in town's best interests. (Which is fair.)

[Bingle]

Gamma Emerald was scum. You're arguing that Elements' kill of scum was anti-town right now. Yes, you and I both know that CL is a mechanically optimal kill for town, but to make the claim that this is a bad kill because you expect everyone else to know that by default is a little much. If it had been publicly established otherwise, maybe, but even then at this point in the game, Elements had shot 1 player who he was aggressively requested to shoot, and 1 player who flipped scum. Your argument for him being anti-town or leash resistant are both a little weak here.

It had been publicly established. It was literally the entire conversation the prior dayphase. But w/e. I don't think you're going to convince anyone here that elements is both protown enough and paying enough attention to be trusted with a kill.

"Two kills both prior to Elements being outed as SK and therefore attempted to be leashed."

What? GE kill was after both you and I had outed knowledge that Ele was SK (my investigation and your claim) AND after Ele had given up on his nexus claim.

Further, he was scheduled to shoot A50, who DEB was supposed to hide behind. Literally the whole reason we didn't lynch DEB the day before. Not only was that protown, it was pro SK because it would have theoretically gotten rid of multiple slots.

Yes. He's proven leash resistant. If you're going to try to argue otherwise, at least read the relevant parts of the game.

[Bingle]

Whether shooting for cult or gs was better on n3 was better is irrelevant, considering elements policy vigged

creature

a strong town player who posts a lot and was fairly obvtown when he died. A shot scum Zor congratulated him for.

Getting rid of multiple slots is pro sk. I gave ele the chance to do that, and he still ignored the leash, proving either that he’s just unwilling to be leashed or not reading. Hence, trying to leash him is a bad idea. He hasn’t made any other provable kills since outing.

AND I’m still arguing that you should be given the chance to win with town if at all possible because I love 3p roles so maybe you should reevaluate which hill you want to die on. I get you think you’ll earn good will for shitting on me if I flip scum, but you’re gonna find that that goodwill won’t be forthcoming when people realize your arguments are dumb AND when I flip town.

[Bingle]

Ah yes 4 wincon games

In which scum argues openly with an sk. Great timez.

Dude, I’m town. I’m not sure why I haven’t been hammered other than Pb wants to not talk about mafia in this thread for two days, but there’s literally nothing else left to be said. I’m not gonna let a 3p cast shade on the correct play of not just hoping the sk plays ball with the town, when he’s already proven he won’t do that.

[Bingle]

Traitor is meant to be played as a black hole. Change my mind!

Traitor is the best role to claim investigative with.

[Bingle]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82055

New scummies thread. I wrote this up for GotY and Paperback, but if anyone thinks they can do a better job/wants to add more noms they're welcome to.