Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Ether]

vote: Simenon

When i called him out on this, he didn't respond. and he had atleast 2 days (i think) to do so. he picked up the pm and then said nothin.

Colin's lack of a Nivote is bizarre. This in itself is null, but

I

see a clear dichotomy in the arguments and favor a Colynch. Since, y'know, Niv came out without prompting on Day 1 and all. I don't see scum motivation behind that. (I'd approve of outing another mason to clear up this mess, except that it wouldn't. Either Niv lied or he didn't: Colin's mason-talking strategy is an irrelevant tangent.)

ZONEACE is idiotic, but the later parts of his wagon feel horribly opportunistic. ZONEACE himself requested replacement, so I'd feel more comfortable waiting for that.

I don't like Zorg's 133. I don't like Lemming's anything.

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.
i think its probably easier for someone to say that i told them this and they never responded, and have the other person who never actually received anything look scummy.

so,

Vote Niv

So, uh...Nivscum rests on Lemmingscum in this. You're voting backwards, kid. (I find this not only counterintuitive but highly scummy, considering my opinions of Colin and Lemming.)

TS beat me to that last one. I was typing, multitasking, feeling special...

[Ether]

Niv: Hi, guys! Simenon is scum. I PMed him to call him out.

He picked up this PM

, so I know he saw it.
Colin: Um, I received no such PM.
Colin: By the way, I said some other stuff about how it's not optimal for masons to nighttalk. Another mason can confirm that I said that. No, for serious.

Am I missing something?

[Ether]

unvote; vote: Yamahako

I am horribly, horribly confused right now.

[Ether]

Also keeping an eye on Flare; I don't like the second paragraph of his attack 160 on TS considering his ZONEACE vote, and I can't decide from his defense of Colin if he knows too much or he's just plain stupid. I hate how like a third of the game can bother me this much.

(And that's

not

counting Colin, whose whole issue is just beyond me. I was primarily interested for the fact that his and Niv's PM reports were outright contradicting each other; I'm no longer sure what's up with that.)

[Ether]

unvote; vote: Flare

So, it just looks like you hopping on two easy wagons.

So I can only express suspicion of one person at a time? And not point out something scummy?

You called the wagon

you were currently sitting on

an easy wagon. No doubts. No acknowledgement you were sitting there. No.

Considering play I've seen from Niv I don't think it's actually too unlikely.

That's ridiculous. The guy came out on Day 1 with what he thought was proper role-based scum-nabbing information. What are you

thinking?

Just curious.

Just curious why you think it's suspicious.

What is

that

supposed to mean?

[Ether]

Do the words "timing and reasoning" mean anything to you?

Coming from your keyboard at that point, no.

What would you do as part of a five man mason group. Automatically claim? As a mason?

With what I believe to be information that I use mention without a claim? With three other mason buddies to carry on? Maybe I'd try to go at it the hard way first, but I really can't say it was

that

incomprehensible, especially from the newbie you're protraying Niv as. It definitely wasn't scummy: on the contrary, I can't imagine Nivscum coming out this way at all.

it's mainly trying to indicate I don't think you're suspicious, and making sure you're fully thinking out your answers and not just answering.

Eh. If I'm attacking you irrationally, then you

should

be probing me about my alignment. See...I took those terse "just curious" statements as an attempt to intimidate me. And as it is--if you don't think I'm scummy, don't ask me hostile and misrepresentative questions. (Either explicitly state that you do not find me scummy beforehand or give me hostile and misrepresentative

statements

.)

By the way, attacking Lemming is cool.

[Ether]

So, would you feel it pertinent to claim, and then off of a hunch, declare one of your mason buddies scum?

When I played with Niv, I got more of a feel that he was an eratic newbie personally.

...and you've been trying to paint Niv as scum. What are you arguing?

I didn't say you were attacking me irrationally. I'm making sure you're questions are well meaning. Those 'hostile and misrepresentative' questions

are

probing you about your alignment.

I really don't think your answers to me convey what you've actually been saying.

I'm not sure if you're scum or not. To be honest, I don't really care. Either you are scum and therefore are a good lynch or you're just such such a bad townie at this point that lynching you in day 1 might actually be beneficial to the town in the long run because you won't confuse matters for the rest of the game.

Look at the individual votes on ZONEACE. Look at them. That isn't all confusion and I find it baffling that you'd say otherwise.

(Speaking of which, why is TS voting MoS for opportunism? o.

O

)

Aimee, post your thoughts and votes. PBPs are too disjointed for the

rest

of us to get a sense of you from.

[Ether]

Who's in between?

Have you actually read each post where a vote was placed and thought long and hard about what each voter's motivation could be? 'Cause I don't think you understand my implications at all.

[Ether]

I'm tired right now, but I recognize that I'm behind. The most important point is that the growing MoSwagon is almost as slimey as the ZONEwagon was. Also important is the fact that Zorg, like Flare, is scum.

ALT'S ARE IMMORAL.

Also why was the word reason repeated like nine times.

You're immoral.

Quoted for truthery.

That it's possible for Niv to be either town or scum, and he isn't confirmed.

Okay. I'm still not following your rationale for this at all.

Disagreement. = )

All right, then. What's going through Aimee's head right now?

Clarification pluz.

You kept asking questions that I felt had hostile edges. When I call you on this, you insisted that they were actually meant to calm me down. (And, possibly to further calm me down, you tell me that you think I'm town. I do understand that this is circular logic, though.) But they aren't, and then you went and

said

you weren't trying to calm me down, you were indeed probing viciously, and...ugh.

I read through a couple of Zoneace's other games. He seems almost as obtuse in those as he is in this. I suppose I'll swallow my pride and admit that the main reason I voted for zoneace isn't that he seems

that

scummy but because he is annoying the tits off me.

That's not a very good reason to vote for someone, even if it is a very tempting one.

So

unvote

for now. Although I will be thinking carefully about reconsidering if he makes any more moves I consider scummy.

Who's in between?

Have you actually read each post where a vote was placed and thought long and hard about what each voter's motivation could be? 'Cause I don't think you understand my implications at all.

As I explained earlier, MoS is a survivor. He's hard to read, and very good at avoiding night kills. It's never a bad long-term strategy, especially in a big game, to keep some heat on MoS. If he's scum, you hope that he might slip up. I don't know if that's what Flare and Zorg have in mind, but I sure wouldn't like MoS to get complacent.

You voted MoS with the implications that Flare was town. What's your opinion of Flare?

And...yeah, White bothers me, though for different reasons. The only person he actually calls out as scummy is some obscure lurker when there's a very wide pool of people and events he can comment on by now.

[Ether]

How the hell can people produce this much garbage in 24 hours?

Flare is still scum. Still don't like Zeppo, Lemming, Zorg or White very much.

vote: Mastermind of Sin

Already making excuses for what he probably

knows

will turn out to be a townie lynch.

Wrong, I voted MoS on account of his being out of character. This has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of Flare's alignment. Independently of my observations on MoS, Flare's contributions seem to lean on the side of disruption, rather than contribution, so I would definitely add him to the scummy column.

...huh?

Yamahako's behavior bothers me, and while I don't really have issues with the attacks actually leveled at him, I keep associating those attacks with people I'm weary of. The votecount isn't as big on this as I'd thought. Hmm. Reread there is on my to-do list.

Feel free to quote them and ask questions.

Sweet, I love it when that happens. Do

you

have any questions or analysis for me, White?

Zorg: Scummy, but too bold with his vote to be really embracing the noobscum ideal.

I'm curious here for Zorg-centric reasons. Elaborate?

[Ether]

unvote; vote: White

. Flarewagon was a little better (he's lurking now), except that, y'know, there doesn't seem to be one. Still have not read the beginning of the Yamawogon, and I should really get to bed: SATs in the morning.

Out of your 9 total posts:

I already don't like this analysis.

What exactly is wrong with this?

This has been answered already.

Granted it looks like Flare is grasping at anything to a degree. But assuming Niv wouldn't do something like this is giving him a free pass. Have you meta'd him? Do you know his playstyle?

Yes, yes it does and I am. No, no I haven't and I don't. Also, you're scum with Flare.

Please give me quotes for this. Because that would fall under contradicting oneself and would be deserving of a vote.

I think it's perfectly obvious what it's supposed to mean. Your intentional ignorance is noted. Btw, what part of him saying he is curious is hard to understand?

Those are the same questions, except one is friendlier. It's Flare's context; please read between the lines. A terse "just curious" after to an aggressive question implying that I'm craplogical isn't a friendly theoretical exchange.

WIFOM.

So's your face.

Why are you so sure Niv didn't do that as scum?

Uh, 'cause scum don't do that? Especially not newbscum? Seriously--I dare you to find a counterexample anywhere.

I'm not sure I understand the last part but explicitly stating he finds you not scummy would be bad play. If he finds you not scummy he'd want to confirm this feeling by probing you and seeing your reaction. If he does find you scummy he'd probe you for your reaction to confirm that feeling. Stating he doesn't find you scummy also let's you know what he's thinking and you could use that to temper your statements. The first part or this sentence looks like craplogic to me.

Maybe it's just because you've lost me completely, but I don't see the point of this comment or why it's specifically something you'd note.

[Ether]

Flare is lurking.

Solution? Post more!

I don't think you know who or what you're dealing with. X_X

So by confirming my thoughts that you haven't meta'd him,

I don't need to meta him.

and agreeing with me that Flare is making stupid cases is scummy?

I am confused by your wording.

Wow Ether! That's an incredibly clear and concise aregument! Doh, i'm so stupid. [/sarcasm] This time feel free to give an argument.

You should actually read the link. You could call WIFOM on every defense that might possibly apply, but the sooner you cut that out, the sooner you can get back to common sense. True story.

However if Niv turns up scum, i'll be looking at you.

Not sure why, but eh, whatever.

I note it because you say he should just tell you up front, "I find you scummy". When in reality that clearly benefits you as scum more than you as town.

I actually tell him that he shouldn't, but that if he absolutely must, he should at least convey it clearly. Even if you disagree with this, I do not see the advice's bearing on my alignment, as it was kinda late for that.

Ether, got a case on me?

Well...

No, I don't think 5 scum are pushing for my wagon. But i'm almost 100% positive that there is ATLEAST 1.

You don't really give off a scumhunting vibe. It's a bit of OMGUS and yelling at groups of people and noncommittal lurkerhunting.

This has been answered already.

It's Flare's context; please read between the lines. A terse "just curious" after to an aggressive question implying that I'm craplogical isn't a friendly theoretical exchange.

You appear to avoid relevant details and and be scum with Flare. For example, by focusing on Niv and WIFOM, you avoided following up on the scummy contradictions of Flare in your post 612 at all. That one's a double-whammy.

You also have a decently-sized bandwagon.

[Ether]

Colin, why is White not a realistic alternative?

So I look scummy because you agree with me?

Where do you agree with me about Flare?

I call WIFOM when you try and guess what someone else might do or think if they are part of an alignment.

Cops and whatnot barred, that would kind of be every defense that might possibly apply, yes.

Come on, yes or no.

Stop posturing, I gave you something and you ignored most of it.

That's because I was asked to ask you questions. I figured inserting opinions on someone that's not related to what I was asked to do would be completely useless and would likely look like some sort of deflection or something. Generally I like to respond to what I was asked and not add irrelevant info about third parties.

So...you're not scumhunting because you're afraid of looking deflective. What's up with all that OMGUSy pseudolurkerhate?

Keep in mind that

I

asked you to analyze my posts, so it's not unreasonable to figure that my main goal is to get someone reading my posts and talking with me about them. Flare's scumhood is certainly

not

irrelevant; if you're analyzing me, you should obviously look at his posts for validity. Find scum, even if it's just someone I'm pointing to.

Or just die.

Ether suggested outing another mason to confirm Simenon and Niv which seemed scummy. Pro-Town players wouldn’t be pushing to confirm more townies this early.

This is a misrepresentative lie that blatantly ignores what I actually said. I made no such suggestion.

Pro-Town players wouldn’t be pushing to confirm more townies this early. Her Simenon vote (6th on wagon) is opportunistic. Pro-Town players would not be pushing a wagon on a claimed mason this early in the game. Sim and Niv are likely scum NK targets – why would Townies want to make the scum’s work so much easier? These votes seem contrived just to get the other masons to claim which is extremely anti-Town.

Simenon's and Niv's early accounts suggested that one of them was lying, which was why I voted. Unconfirmed masons are not more worth protecting than unconfirmed players in general.

Post 611 OMGUS looking vote on White.

I don't think it was OMGUS, as I don't regard his post as an actual attack. I

made

him analyze me, you realize, and I already didn't like him (as foreshadowed in a post you approved of). I'll admit that I'm feeling a strong newfound resentment toward

you

as of your misrepresentations of me (which do appear to be an attack which you initiated, yes).

[Ether]

Bah. I've clearly missed something. Why are Tornado and White spamming about self-votes? (Why is Tornado

still

self-voting, anyway?)

I have half a post on a different computer. It continues my spats with Setael and White and explains to Aimee that I got off of Flare because he's lurking and no one else is on him, so the alternative would be to shout the same things again and again. I'll get back to you once I'm home.

[Ether]

Tornado: I was kind of hoping that you'd vote someone

else

. (In my eyes, there's not really a difference between self-voting and not voting at all, although self-voting does

look

a bit stupider.)

I have no complaints about the Zorgwagon, and I'll happily join it if we can push it up to something respectable. Please also consider Setael, Flare, Lemming, Zeppo, blah blah blah.

No, I don't think 5 scum are pushing for my wagon. But i'm almost 100% positive that there is ATLEAST 1.

You don't really give off a scumhunting vibe. It's a bit of OMGUS and yelling at groups of people and noncommittal lurkerhunting.

This has been answered already.

It's Flare's context; please read between the lines. A terse "just curious" after to an aggressive question implying that I'm craplogical isn't a friendly theoretical exchange.

You appear to avoid relevant details and and be scum with Flare. For example, by focusing on Niv and WIFOM, you avoided following up on the scummy contradictions of Flare in your post 612 at all. That one's a double-whammy.

You also have a decently-sized bandwagon.

aka, I agree with you that Flare is looking for nonexistent cases.

Too uncommittal to give you any points. Then you immediately changed the subject and have refused to speak of Flare since.

No, it wouldn't. Ex. Zorg votes MoS for claiming cop in an open game with no cop. MoS defends himself by saying he is indeed cop. MoS get's wagoned and lynched and revealed as scum. I don't see any WIFOM in there. Another ex? Sure! I vote Niv for claiming mason with Sim (refer to early this game). Niv defends himself saying he really thought Sim was scum due to a misunderstanding of flavor in their role pms. WIFOM? Nope, none there either.

In fact, both of those examples fall into WIFOM. That said, I can see this going the pointless way of you and Tornado, and you already ceded in 576 that I believed what I was saying about him. I'd like to leave it at that unless Niv gets strung up.

Uh...no! Are you even reading my posts? I didn't (for obvious reasons) pur up a case for Flare being scum when analyzing you. Why would I? That makes no sense!

Analyzing me is obviously not the only thing you've been doing, nor should it be. Your conversation with me does not prevent you from analyzing other people who you've half-heartedly called scummy. They might, y'know, be scum.

OMGUSy pseudolurkerhate eh? I think you need to reread the game Ether. I always hate lurkers, it's not fake at all. Meta me, I dare you. It's not OMGUS either but I can see where you would think it is

Um. I'm not disputing your metagame at all. You were displaying a double-standard against those on your wagon. (There are lurkers off of it.) While I can understand this as well, you can't seriously call a thorough Flareanalysis "deflection" and not this.

Wow. "Misrepresentative lie that blatantly ignores" is pretty harsh. Are you trying to make me look suspicious or something?

I'm actually trying to work up the confidence to ask you out for scones.

Upon rereading it I can see that you didn't actually approve of outing another mason, you just said you would approve outing another mason if it would clear up this mess. I apologize for misunderstanding. I did not lie nor did I blatantly ignore your actual meaning.

See...I'm not seeing how you could drag your eyes through 11 words and not be capable of finishing the last 4 words of the sentence. Let alone the paragraph.

Generally, when someone says something scummy, you're supposed to take a

closer

look at the post.

And for the record, I still think it's scummy that you would approve outing another mason if you thought it would clear up this mess.

Uh...why?

Yes they are when there are 3 other people who could claim to confirm them. Pressuring them further is pressuring the other masons to claim. Also, why vote to lynch them when if they are telling the truth the scum will be motivated to NK them?

The alignments of the masons are not confirmed. Both Niv and Colin have been perfectly clear on that point.

You are awfully touchy. You get 2 bonus points for having the self control to not vote me inspite of this newfound resentment.

Hey...if anyone's still reading this post, could it proxy its vote to me for a second?

[Ether]

I was out while the fun stuff happened. ._. On the plus side, karaoke.

I still don't like White. I can assemble the exact exchange I had with him, exposing all of his evasions and breaks with reality. I really want to. I'm really going to when I'm bored enough. And optimistic enough of the town's willingness to read long posts.

In the meantime, though,

unvote; vote: Toaster Strudel

for 857. This is so unfair.

[Ether]

Wait.

"Optimal play" is a reasonable excuse. We've been unvoting TS because we

believe

her now?

(

unvote; vote: Zeppo

, which is related to the above, though there are separate reasons for both the statement and the vote.)

A third cop should obviously not claim.

[Ether]

Erg0: I'm not getting why we (read: you) are bothering with cop sanity discussion. The original "I'm not buying it, TS, but I'll back off for now" sentiments were much better.

Thinking about it, my wording didn't actually segue into my Zeppovote brilliantly. He stated that there was a choice between TS and Lemming being scum...and he'd make it later, no leanings right now. His 903 skirts around TS completely as her stock is sinking after her slip. The earlier votes on ZONE, Yamahako and MoS were all ugly to different degrees.

I mean no disrespect toward the Zorgwagon, but...can it wait?

Colin: I got nothing.

[Ether]

Eh. I can see Erg0's post as a lecture, though I still think the connotation gives TS too much leeway as a scummy individual. (I do not deny that multiple cops with sanity issues are a fair possibility in a vacuum.)

Colin's point is eh. I've seen attacks on claimed power roles by noncounterclaiming town, and I think not calling for a counterclaim in the early game is a perfectly rational thing to do.

But since we have two cops, the idea of MoS counter claiming is shot down.

What?

[Ether]

That last bit was originally meant as an attack, but never mind, I can see how it was intended. I still disagree.

[Ether]

Zeppo is not dead enough. He's like TS-lite; there's not even that claim to worry about. Kill him. Now.

I don't feel like defending the multiple cops theory even though it would theoretically be valid.

[Ether]

Setael's

got my back? I like her case on Zeppo, at least until she drags MoS in, but I'm not sure what to make of the fact that it's

her

doing it.

Zorgwagon's my deadline choice. Setael needs to explain it isn't hers (as implied by her dislike of MoS).

Yeah...I'm reeeeeeeeeeaaally not getting the MoShate.

[Ether]

I'm cool with any wagon, personally, with a preference for Zeppo and Zorg above White (solely for White's 854). I'd still like Setael's thoughts on Zorg.

I

do

think TS is scum, so Zeppo's TSvote doesn't bother me in the slightest until you take the bits around it (mostly the earlier hesitation) into account.

While a look through Booboo's posts suggests that Person C is the

least

of his crimes, it baffles me that Scøpe is still wasting his time there this close to deadline. I could have sworn he was more bandwagon.

[Ether]

I hate time zones. Patrick,

please

move to New Jersey.

I'm still confused by the Zeppowagon. I still have issues with Setael, but her case on Zeppo is fine. I think the fact that Scøpe needed my

prompting

to vote Zeppo suggests a pairing between them, and isn't in Zeppo's favor. I don't like Flameaxe or his vote. JDodge is eh, in retrospect; I'd like him to spell out his opinions on White. I still think MoS and Niv are town.

I'd move my vote to Zorg if it weren't for the deadline, and if he got to six I'd switch over. No, I don't think that's likely to happen, and yes, that's completely my fault for scraping so close to the deadline. Pfeh.

I'd still like Setael's thoughts on Zorg.

You lose credit if you can't answer this by the deadline.

[Ether]

Hmm.

I don't really see an advantage to Lemming claiming his result unless it's a guilty, or an innocent who's actually in danger. TS is another story.

Bookitty, I strongly, strongly disagree with your attack and note that you haven't actually commented on TS. What's your opinion of her?

[Ether]

This thread cannot be locked quickly enough.

[Ether]

Flare, do try to get the

current

events down first.

Colin's lack of a Nivote is bizarre. This in itself is null,

but I see a clear dichotomy in the arguments and favor a Colynch. Since, y'know, Niv came out without prompting on Day 1 and all. I don't see scum motivation behind that. (I'd approve of outing another mason to clear up this mess, except that it wouldn't. Either Niv lied or he didn't: Colin's mason-talking strategy is an irrelevant tangent.)

How does this make him scum though? He didn't assume scum, and tried to settle things out first? How does that point to him as scum?

[Ether]

...basically, what they said.

[Ether]

Due to threats on my life if I don't comply, I'm changing Toaster Strudel's role name to "Mafia Godmother" for political correctness.

*notthreatening*

Not thrilled with Flare or Scøpe, but let's go with a

vote: Sir Tornado

for his 1206.

I forgot to ask this yesterday: was I missing something between JDodge and White?

I'm on limited access as well--until Sunday.

[Ether]

I don't even remember much of the case on Zorg. I remember that there was a point at which you had this fabulously scummy wagon TS started. It had like {TS, Zorg, Flare, Yamahako} at its apex. Just doesn't feel like four scumbags would hop onto you in a row, and I feel worse about both Flare and Yamahako. (Yeah...wow. I just looked through Yamahako's posts and they really, really suck.)

That said, I very much approve of your watcher suggestion and think BM is horribly, horribly wrong about painting it as a scumtell.

[Ether]

In fact, looking back at the old Yamawogon and knowing White and Zeppo to have been town, it doesn't seem quite so sinister anymore.

unvote; vote: Yamahako

[Ether]

Gonna

unvote; vote: JDodge

, partially in light of Colin's "stances" metagame comment, partially out of the desire to get a wagon I have some sort of preference for going.

Lemming... why

are

you not claiming your results?

ZONEACE, do you doubt Lemming's cop claim? I personally think his claim was quite believable.

Why have you hinted that the lemming is scum, and implied he be lynched quickly when you know that there is a possibility of having different cop sanities?

Both Lemming and TS can't be scum, but I just can't decide which of them looks more scummy at the moment.

Tornado--I'll admit that you

did

unvote in 1209, with only a votecount and Erg0's confusion in between, but...eh. The post also acknowledges that you've been wondering about sanity yourself. I find it bizarre that a towngoer's initial reaction would be to trust the fishy, fishy cop who claimed her guilty before the counterclaiming claimed his innocent, without any other comments.

You people, um,

do

realize that MoS's watcher plan was valuable, unrelated to a doctor's or watcher's actual follow-through or even existence, because it could intimidate the scum off of roleblocking Lemming? Please say I'm not the only one who thought that.

from making sure we all knew multiple cops were a possibility, nay, a probability, virtually guaranteed (exaggeration only slight, and intended to point out the tone of his argument) to the bitter end.

Most of this post strikes me wrong, and I'm thinking that you're claiming cop just to survive a couple extra days. So

IGMEOY: TS

However, even a counterclaim won't prove TS scum, since we could have multiple cops. I'm willing to give TS a chance for now, but we need to watch her like a hawk. She'll slip eventually if she's scum.

This was said

before

Lemming counterclaimed. His position wasn't "TS is town in spite of Lemming's counterclaim." It was "Lemming's counterclaim is unrelated to TS's alignment."

I also note that at any point when anyone has landed a vote or suspicion on ZONEACE Mastermind of Sin has popped up to defend him,

I'm taking his word for this, but...isn't that normal? (Dunno about the overreaction. I've mentally grouped ZONEACE into the village idiot category and am of the opinion that, despite the clear stupidity of his plan, ZONEvoting is a waste of the seconds required to type it out--and possibly of a vote.)

even trying to get Lemming (who I believe to be a cop, based on evidence) thrown out of the entire game for upsetting ZONEACE.

See above, mostly--but do you actually find Lemming's role relevant here? The wording is odd.

I'm still not feeling the MoS wagon. I was going to add a few snappy sentences to the end, but Bookitty said she'd present a bigger case and I'll wait for that.

[Ether]

If I popped up, every time someone accused JDodge of behaving scummily, and said, "This is just his playstyle! OMG OMG!" and then asked them to justify their vote on scummy JDodge (and I believe that it IS his playstyle, by the way) without ever giving any real defense of him...

I think you'd find that fairly odd, and scummy. I'm not doing that, because I don't know JDodge's alignment. And MoS doing it, to the extent of attacking pretty much everyone who ever votes for ZONEACE and demanding explanations for that, while refusing to respond to questions in kind?

I don't think this is a parallel. If JDodge did what I attacked him for every game, I'd have no choice but to tune my scumdar accordingly, and I'd be agitated but look into your statement. (Colin has actually said that this is

against

JDodge's metagame.) Keep in mind that MoS has asserted that he

does

defend ZONEACE in every game.

The questions point is fair, and regarding ZONEACE's

strategy

, I do think you're in the right.

(And yes, I did find Lemming's role relevant, insofar as I believe it indicates alignment, and MoS's attack on someone I feel has been proven to be town on behalf of someone I feel has not is relevant to me.)

Would requesting the replacement of TS have been more acceptable?

Why the jabs at Erg0 in your 1430 MoS analysis if you think he's town? They did look like jabs.

I'm having my own pairing confusions right now. I don't like you or JDodge or Scøpe, and I'm not sure what to make of the fact that JDodge and Scøpe are both attacking you, and exactly who it's a plus for. Hmm hmm.

The "pretty scummy" part was some post which I posted yesterday pointed out by Ether (who still hasn't explained how it was scummy).

Um, yes. Yes, I did.

I don't like the way MoS simply says it is scummy (when I don't think it is) and then tries to deflect attention from it. It seems like a subtle ploy to take me down with him if he is scum.

MoS didn't have a wagon on him at that point. I suppose that doesn't completely negate it, but...eh. Personally, I'm almost always like that.

[Ether]

Keep in mind that MoS has asserted that he

does

defend ZONEACE in every game.

What about this?

I consider hypocrisy a scumtell, and since I think Lemming is town, I weighted it more heavily. If it had been practiced against someone now known to be scum, and for the same reasons, I would not weight it so heavily.

Eh...I'm not seeing it.

I don't like the way MoS simply says it is scummy (when I don't think it is) and then tries to deflect attention from it. It seems like a subtle ploy to take me down with him if he is scum.

MoS didn't have a wagon on him at that point. I suppose that doesn't completely negate it, but...eh. Personally, I'm almost always like that.

Read what I wrote more carefully.

No. Spell it out.

I

know

that JDodge isn't verbose in the best of times. Dunno. I expected I'd be able to figure out his thoughts anyway, and what he did state up-front about White was different from my own atta--

--and on second thoughts,

unvote; vote: Yamahako

until I get to the bottom of post 338. Or Flare. Flarelynch would be awesome.

I originally voted Lemming because he was contradicting himself.

...huh? My mental reaction to those posts was confusion--note that Lemming had claimed his result after TS, disregard WIFOM paranoia in favor of common sense, think (though I got here late enough for Fonz's claim). I am not understanding your train of thought.

[Ether]

It occurs to me that I managed to completely misread the post I voted Tornado for across multiple skims. I thought the first quote was something else (specifically, TS's result). I am not sure why I thought this, but I suppose I should drop my charges of the vote being outright sinister. Gah.

With that said, I'm, uh, still missing the contradiction.

I don't like the way MoS simply says it is scummy (when I don't think it is) and then tries to deflect attention from it. It seems like a subtle ploy to take me down with him if he is scum.

MoS didn't have a wagon on him at that point. I suppose that doesn't completely negate it, but...eh. Personally, I'm almost always like that.

Read what I wrote more carefully.

No. Spell it out.

MoS was trying to deflect attention from my wagon, not his own wagon.

Oh. I got

that.

(I referred to his own wagon size to point out that he was not necessarily going down immediately. The main point was that it's not the only explanation and I don't think MoS is scum.)

You aren't liking JDodge (said in your last post), but you will base a vote on me because of a small post he made without any explination in it?

Interesting.

I'm wavering on JDodge. I didn't base my vote on you off of his post; I was previously voting you and then hopped over 'cause I felt like making a bandwagon. Then he attacked the MoSwagon and Bookitty. That complicated things. I'm not wild about JDodge's conduct toward White, in retrospect, or his overall behavior, but when he gives names in his posts...eh, I tend to agree with them. When I noticed it, that post clinched it--it attacked you, Flare, and TS. Good stuff.

[Ether]

Okay, yeah, JDodge is so awesome it's creepy. But still awesome.

I don't even remember much of the case on Zorg. I remember that there was a point at which you had this fabulously scummy wagon TS started. It had like {TS, Zorg, Flare, Yamahako} at its apex. Just doesn't feel like four scumbags would hop onto you in a row, and I feel worse about both Flare and Yamahako.

For the record, I looked at your post on the Zorg/TS connection (FoSing TS, voting MoS later) and don't think it was very intriguing--he accused her own vote of being WIFOM but joined the wagon for independent reasons. Am I missing anything?

[Ether]

Which other semilurkers?

...eh. I'd think it'd be worse to follow a known

towngoer

in a scummy fashion (and therefore isn't a proper associative tell). This just isn't that interesting to me.

I'd be down with an anti-Flare alliance. Yamahako currently gives me a worse feeling, but I understand that Flare's lurking might have something to do with that.

[Ether]

It would seem I'm on very limited access right now.

The attack on Colin for his list is stupid.

As for the semi-lurkers, Aimee would be one example. Kscope's also been pretty concise in his posts (granted, that's his playstyle).

Aimee, um, also gives me a bad feeling now that you mention it. (Aimeescum also implies BMtown, though.)

unvote, vote Toaster Strudel

I'd comment on the mason issue but it's totally confusing me, Zoneace for all his supposed faults is striking me as an easy target.

Why TS?

Why is Lemming more convincing than TS?

o.

O

(Some questions to TS, to be fair--it's not all like that--but those specific comments are disturbing in and of themselves.)

I still don't like Yamahako enough to move onto yet another new person who doesn't have any votes yet, but yeah, we can lynch Aimee and it'd be cool.

[Ether]

I approve but don't feel like joining a growing lurkerwagon. (

Mod:

prod Flare.)

As I've said a few times, I don't really see BM/Flare due to that early votecount. But I don't think BM is scum in the first place, so, yeah.

Niv's move to Flare feels off, but I still think he's town thanks to the Day 1 outing.

Erg0, what do you think about Aimee?

[Ether]

We need to wagon the shit out of Yamahako so he starts scumhunting. Or dying.

You can move back to Flare later. When he's in a condition to post. And Yamahako has been dealt with.

[Ether]

Erg0, I do understand that Aimee has been on limited access. I stated in 1514 what was

in

her posts that felt off to me. (Also, if you think she's town, then that

would

distinguish her from the other semilurkers like Yamahako, now, wouldn't it. To be fair, I'm not wild about Scøpe, especially since I like Bookitty's recent actions, but...meh. Yamahako feels even worse.)

[Ether]

Actually, I'm voting Yamahako because I get the impression that he doesn't have any interest in finding scum, and hasn't had any such interest at any point in the game. I think his "pressure" vote on Flare was itself scummy because of the timing--it had been established that Flare was sick, so, um, the lurker-pressure card didn't really apply, now, did it. As far as I'm concerned, Yamahako's hypocrisy as his wagon built was the least of his problems.

Still gathering people's thoughts on Aimee. Setael2?

[Ether]

I keep wavering between Setael2 and JDodge. I think BM and Bookitty are town. (Setael2 asked earlier about my Aimeescum/BMtown comment--it's not really anything big and insidious, just Aimee's BMvote. Eh.)

Yamahako being innocent makes Aimee even worse. If we could lynch her before Patrick has to go find a replacement, that'd be awesome.

Scøpe's failure to do anything ever is starting to bug me, and I'd like him to list the relative scumminess of all living players.

With the doctor dead, Skruffs should, uh, probably be telling us how his night went at some point.

Hmm hmm.

[Ether]

Meh. Later.

I'm rereading the thread right now. Well, right now I'm skipping around playing WIFOM games, but I'll be rereading the thread once I have the fun parts down. (Speaking of which, MoS is town. True story.)

Skruffs, I came into day assuming you had probably been roleblocked but I was surprised enough to get hopeful when you didn't state this outright. I did not think that you had a guilty on Bookitty--hence, "I think BM and Bookitty are town."

[Ether]

Confession: there wasn't actually much rereading going on there.

I suppose you might want an update. I'm on limited access right now until I write something for English, but I wasn't on limited access the whole week I didn't post. Kore is still scum. (Where is she, anyway?) JDodge and BM are eh. Setael2 is now town. All names listed in this paragraph are in order of scumminess.

I did get around to the span of posts between Bookitty's 1474 and her 1523 that Setael2 attacked her for. There's some BM- and Flarehate, but it's not the sort of material that would bring a newcomer to the fold, as Bookitty implies happened in her 1744. I'm not seeing where the shift in suspicions would have come from, either.

I'm still split for reasons

I

don't want to give yet, and this wagon is too late/the day too early for me to feel comfortable joining it. But yeah, I don't disapprove.

MoS is still town. I can give reasons for that one.

[Ether]

Recabled.

Ether, are you thinking what I'm thinking about Bookitty-scum?

yes or no question.

Yes. (

Vote: Bookitty

, even.)

6) Ether (replacing Honary Hitchhiker) - Ether kind of bothers me in that she attacked townies on multiple occasions: first White (2, 3), and Setael, then Yamahako,

...and?

[Ether]

I'm not following Skruffs's logic on there being a serial killer at all.

I acknowledge Bookitty's claim but will not move my vote.

It seemed to me that she was just targetting a lot of people, jumping between targets. IMHO, she picked easy targets, too. White was under fire at the time, I'm pretty sure a few people were after Setael, and I'm completely sure Yamahoko was being attacked.

I do hop around as a part of my playstyle. As for hopping

bandwagons

--only White's. I was the only person attacking Setael1 at the time, and I

started

the fatal Yamahako- and Zeppowagons with no initial support from other people. I

make

my targets easy.

I'm too lazy to look thoroughly right now, but I think there's a double-standard in this attack. (JDodge and MoS spring to mind immediately, although MoS is town.)

I think Bookitty's questions to you (MoS's gut, Bookitty has not in fact refuted town lynches) which you ignored are solid points which you need to respond to.

JDodge is on my town list if you come up scum, in part because he's not on your wagon yet and if he was scum, I think he would be.

Why are people treating me like I am

[confirmed]

?

I can't answer for Simenon, but I can answer as one of the people treating you as if you were confirmed.

I can't answer for Simenon

I can think of no reason for you to answer this question unless you're scum.

Unvote, vote: Bookie

O

kaaaaaaaaaay,

that was weird.

I'm thinking {Bookitty, JDodge, Kore} is the jackpot. For those of you who don't like lynching masons, I wouldn't mind starting on one of the other two.

[Ether]

Confirming masonhood.

I hadn't really intended my statement as a claim (just an indication that I was aware of Bookitty's claim) and I wasn't planning to out myself today, but, meh, whatever. I do think Colin was the person who outed me. That's about as far as I understand this line of discussion. Someone needs to spell this out for me.

I did

not

vote Bookitty for her masonhood--on the contrary, that had been holding me back. (I actually

did

drop a hint about this in 1779. TS was blatantly masonfishing at the end of Day 1, and I've wavered on the implications of this throughout the game.) I think her claim timing was obviously the smart thing to do regardless of her alignment. I didn't realize what Colin was asking; I thought he just wanted me to commit to a position.

Actually, I voted as a combination of Setael's original point and a later Bookitty/Setael exchange, started on 1789, regarding Bookitty's confidence. "I could be wrong" indeed.

Regarding Bookitty/Kore--I do not look for deeper meaning in the posts of someone who is at -2. The points were valid. That is as far as I'll read.

Soooooooo...let's see. Bookitty bounced her miller hypothesis off of me last night and I nodded absently. I misinterpreted it as a paranoia thing--for the record, I do

not

believe that Patrick would put millers into his game, especially on top of a roleblocker, and I think the nightkills point to a vig, not a serial killer. I did start worrying at some point that if Bookitty was arguing for literal millers, there might be a

reason

for this. (Because of the roleblocker, though, I suppose this isn't a practical point.)

Also, this is another point against JDodge, which I couldn't make earlier without hypocrisy--a -1 vote with no real curiosity or interest in a claim. (To be fair, I've

hammered

in the past without a claim as town, but, yeah.)

My recent MoStown statements have been completely serious. They're based off of Lemming's hatred toward MoS at the end of Day 1--the optimal play for him would have been to check MoS, not TS. (Sanity questions if there were indeed two cops, TS was frankly already on borrowed time, et cetera.) If Lemming had gotten a scum result on MoS Night 1, that would have been a catastrophe for the scum. They could have prevented this with a roleblock if they were worried, but they didn't.

[Ether]

Flameaxe dead Night 1, no one dead Night 3. (Setael1's death could go either way, I think.)

[Ether]

Regarding the vig/serial killer business: filter Flameaxe's posts and tell me he was a threat. Setael1 had picked up some flak for her guesses about TS's sanity, so I could see her as vigbait.

Tornado, my Bookivote was based on her posts in the thread and I'd previously been leaning toward there not being masonscum at all.

I didn't realize I/Bookitty/Colin wouldn't speak later, so I didn't consider passing on the transcript to be a high priority. I was not under the impression that Bookitty and Colin weren't on speaking terms just because Colin wouldn't stay in the chat. When I AIMed him privately to scold him for leaving, he said he'd joined by accident and he'd be gone for 40 minutes. I didn't call him back.

Response: I checked with Ether, I posted something to Ether, and I communicated with ether for a reason: I thought you were scum. We have at least four masons in this group. Why couldn't I have simply talked to Ether? Besides, this is confirmable. Ether, did I talk to you about my suspicions of booboo? Niv, Did i talk to you about my suspicions of booboo? See, look, if they answer their questions, your argument falls to pieces.

Only on Night 1. We didn't speak Night 2. Day 2, Bookitty was on your "Players I won't wagon" list, and in our only real exchange on Night 3, you didn't mention her. (You attacked Scøpe, but I do think Scøpe's behavior toward Bookitty is too over-the-top to be an associative tell either way, so, yeah.)

Colin needs to answer Setael2's 1895. What swayed you with Bookitty?

A traitor-mason would explain TS's behavior and Colin's...slip, or whatever it was. (That's the only case in which his outing me would actually serve to forward any sort of agenda that I can see--if he's town it was counterproductive, and if he's full mafia then I've been out the whole time.) There's less going for it with Colintown/Bookiscum.

Also, Dodgescum is less compelling with Colinscum.

Gah.

unvote; vote: Korejora

[Ether]

Tired. Need to catch up. I'm not actually all that intrigued by Setael's case on BM, which is what I read specifically, though I suppose I ought to read more closely later.

So, what about this case made you think I was the scum mason? What part of Setael's case did you agree with?

I agreed that I couldn't see a valid reason for your change of heart over MoS, and there was some other thing about your defense that I can't remember and I'm trying to just grind out a post at this point. What actually prompted me to vote was your confidence that the information from your lynch could win it for the town--too out of character. (You did explain this in 1937 as an attempt to signal, though. Fair enough.)

This is why I was suspicous that the other nightkill was from an SK: The sk might have tried a kill on me thinking the mafia would also try a kill on me which would override any doctors.

Anyways, it's why I Was suspicious of the person who was pretty sure there was a vig.

Sir T, why are you so sure it's a vig, not an SK? I think Skruffs made a good point; Erg0 probably protected Skruffs, therefore the lack of a kill probably means a second anti-town role targeted Skruffs, therefore we have two anti-town killing groups.

I don't understand this logic at all (and I think I've displayed confidence in a vig for longer than Tornado has, but I'm not setting myself up for a vigclaim, don't worry). How does having no second nightkill actually

point

to a serial killer over a vig who just decided not to kill?

@Ether: What do you make of Simenon's "lynch starter" post right before my claim, and his subsequent vote for Mastermind of Sin, whom you've declared to be most likely town?

I don't have a problem with the analysis's timing, or the fact that he voted MoS in particular--my support of him is based off of night action WIFOM instead of MoS's own actions. But the unvote was contrived, and the only motivations for it I can see are sinister. (Did we ever get a straight answer out of Colin there?)

If there is a scum mason, why would TS have to fish for the masons? Although it may be possible that their is an SK-mason, which would explain TS fishing for the mason identities.

WIFOM games over whether this was valid. That's what the wavering was for. (I hadn't considered traitors until earlier today, and didn't actually think a serial killer mason was likely even before I ruled out a serial killer in the set of all players. Process of elimination would be dangerous.)

[Ether]

and there was some other thing about your defense that I can't remember and I'm trying to just grind out a post at this point.

I did get around to the span of posts between Bookitty's 1474 and her 1523 that Setael2 attacked her for. There's some BM- and Flarehate, but it's not the sort of material that would bring a newcomer to the fold, as Bookitty implies happened in her 1744. I'm not seeing where the shift in suspicions would have come from, either.

There we go.

You've argued consistently that Mastermind of Sin was town, and you pushed a case on Flare and on Zorg (and in fact argued that they were scum together) at about the same time as the post Setael2 is using as the basis for her case against me.

Actually, I haven't pushed Zorg since like Day 1. (I still don't like Kore. I don't have any other general town tell on BM at this point; TS being confirmed scum and my suspicions of Flare and Yamahako shielded him at the time.)

In unrelated news, I want to kill JDodge so very badly right now and the only thing holding me back is confusion about Colin's role.

[Ether]

This is one of those times where I keep telling myself I'll reread and resume being more insightful than the rest of the town, but never actually do so. Grr.

MoS, Setael2, Kore (bah) and Elmo are probably town, in that order.

I agree with MoS's assessments of ZONEACE and JDodge, except...Colin seems like the most likely traitor to me and his interactions with JDodge make it unlikely that he's his traitor. (There was actually one post in which Colin addressed JDodge with what felt like a breadcrumb, but I still think the rest of his behavior cancels that out. Bookitty/Setael2, you've both actually

been

traitors; can you comment on what to expect?)

I don't get Tornado's reasoning for his -2 BMvote, and his claim logic for unvoting is beyond me. (Cop outed, doctor dead, tracker dead, vig unmotivated to counterclaim, and a buncha masons; what's left to out?) I'm not thrilled with his earlier behavior, in retrospect; the vibe of his Day 1 posts felt more baiting than curious. And I'm not sure who he's suspected recently.

Hey, Tornado, who's scum?

Same question to ZONEACE.

[Ether]

Eh?

I would love to know what ether means.

Oh. This.

Bookitty's reference to Colin's joining the TSwagon early is a fair point. Bah.

and Zoneace, I've maintained from D1 isn't scum based on meta amongst other things.

What meta?

ZONEACE, who's scum?

[Ether]

There was actually one post in which Colin addressed JDodge with what felt like a breadcrumb, but I still think the rest of his behavior cancels that out.

I'm not insinuating anything.

I gave you the link because you asked.

[Ether]

Ether.

That was a joke.

I figured.

[Ether]

My recent MoStown statements have been completely serious. They're based off of Lemming's hatred toward MoS at the end of Day 1--the optimal play for him would have been to check MoS, not TS. (Sanity questions if there were indeed two cops, TS was frankly already on borrowed time, et cetera.) If Lemming had gotten a scum result on MoS Night 1, that would have been a catastrophe for the scum. They could have prevented this with a roleblock if they were worried, but they didn't.

And the BM thing. Can we please shut up about MoScum yet?

Ether, could I bother you to talk about JDodge?

Eh.

Vote: JDodge

, I guess--mostly Tornado's behavior around ZONEACE, though I still don't feel great. What's up?

Eth-er wrote:

Don't do that.

[Ether]

Bookitty, I just answered that.

[Ether]

I made and saved a post explaining myself. Actually, though--ZONEACE, make a List first.

[Ether]

(Limited access.)

kore, seatel and kitty bother me. theres my list ether.

Okay. I'd like specifics, too. Also--where do Tornado and JDodge stand and why?

Also also,

unvote

in the meantime.

[Ether]

Okay. I'd like specifics, too. Also--where do Tornado and JDodge stand and why?

I support the interrogation of ZONEACE.

...come to think of it, Elmo does need to start posting, yes.

The MoShate is so stupid that I don't take it seriously enough to repeat why it's stupid. Unless you've actually forgotten my rationale. Something about the interaction between the cop and the mafia roleblocker. Then I'll repeat it.

Bookitty, you should resume using AIM. Not

just

over the night phase, mind you.

[Ether]

Hey. ZONEACE. JDodge and Tornado. Discuss.

Part of my reason for suspecting MoS is because I'm uncomfortable with the level and consistency of defence of him throughout the game; if we do have a traitor mason, it is likely they know who the scum in the game are, and so SOMEONE in the masons is going to be defending them, I suspect.

Great. You and Tornado don't appear to be taking

why

I'm defending MoS into account. It's not really subjective.

And because you jumped on a case from Setael/Flare (whom you'd stated you thought was scum) and voted me, as did all of the masons, I begin to adopt Simenon's expressed first opinion that nighttalking might not be the wisest idea.

I don't follow your logic--or understand the point of this segue. Did you just refuse outright to be available on AIM?

Additionally, if you want ZONEACE pressured for opinions, then why was my vote the only one on him for most of this day?

I've lapsed into "lazy" mode and I don't actually know who I want to lynch.

[Ether]

I think you're wasting your time with MoS's suspicions, unless you're seeking his wisdom in order to judge between other candidates, which is clearly not the case.

I've been defending MoS because of Lemmingcop's behavior toward him near the end of Day 1. He hated him. From his perspective, the optimal play would have been to investigate him, not TS--but the scum were willing to risk this even though they had a roleblocker. I can't imagine why they'd do that if Lemming could have gotten a guilty on MoS.

Additionally, if you want ZONEACE pressured for opinions, then why was my vote the only one on him for most of this day?

I've lapsed into "lazy" mode and I don't actually know who I want to lynch.

If you're in "lazy" mode then what is the harm in someone else questioning MoS and pressuring him to figure out what his logic is?

This isn't a straight tangent. On your subject, we seem to be on different wavelengths--as far as I'm concerned, MoS has an innocent result on him, so it's stupid to pressure him.

Feel better, anyway. ♥

[Ether]

No, I'm assuming the scum were sure that Lemming wouldn't investigate any scumbag except TS, and would have roleblocked Lemming if they had any reason not to be sure. I think the possibility of a TS investigation might have been

tempting

to them, but not worth the risk of a guilty on someone else.

I think that there's an equally good case to be made that the roleblocker failed to get a night action to the mod in time.

Let's see.

Mod,

if a mafiate with an active power role doesn't send its choice to you personally, would another mafiate be able to choose for it?

(Even if Patrick says it can't, though, I still don't see MoS as scum. Interactions with BM, and I do think he won your spat over ZONEACE. Like I said, though, Elmopressure's fine by me.)

[Ether]

I just told you how that clears MoS.

I'm unsure what you're asking. I don't think the scum would engage in play that is

obviously

suboptimal. I think that if MoS was scum, the first thing he'd say to his scumbuddies on Night 1 would be, "The cop doesn't trust me; I think we'd better block him to be on the safe side." I don't think scumbags would watch out for towngoers as carefully.

I

do

think MoS is confirmed (and I acknowledge that I've been burned before, yes).

I don't know what you're suggesting MoS would be wrong about. We appear to be discussing his alignment, not his suspicions. Bussing is unlikely, especially because of the range of better suspects, and I'd like to wait for Patrick's answer. (I didn't think of Zorg's activity at the time.)

I just

told

you why.

[Ether]

I don't see what your opinion of Colin has to do with anything.

By the time the game went to Night 1, Lemming hadn't mentioned ZONEACE at all for like three weeks. (The last week he wasn't actually active, except to pop in and vote MoS, but he was rabid on MoS before that.)

[Ether]

I think that there's an equally good case to be made that the roleblocker failed to get a night action to the mod in time.

Let's see.

Mod

, if a mafiate with an active power role doesn't send its choice to you personally, would another mafiate be able to choose for it?

Yes.

So that's out of the way. Now what, Bookitty?

On the Lemming case: as far as I can find, Lemming did not vote Mastermind of Sin until 1414, which was on the second day, and his arguments with him on the first day appear to have mostly involved his defense of ZONEACE, so in the hypothetical that MOS is scum, I'm not sure he or the mafia would have been worried about him being a cop target.

Lemming first voted MoS here, at the close of Day 1, but he'd already been attacking him previously. Frequently. Without mentioning ZONEACE by the end at all.

I would be completely opposed to an MoS- or Setvig; I cannot imagine why Tornado believes them to be scum. I wouldn't really complain about vigging Elmo, but a Dodgevig would be my favorite.

I'll

vote: ZONEACE

to better manipulate Tornado.

[Ether]

Ok I am going to claim now. I am the vig.

This may look odd timed, but I think it is necessary I make myself a mafia NK target to make sure none of the masons, whose survival I deem extremely necessary for the town to win, are taken out on N5. And, I am willing to take a straw poll among everyone for the night kill. Also, I think that mafia would have figured this out already by now.

Who should I NK tonight? Right now, I am looking at one of MoS/JDodge/Setael/Elmo.

I would also like to hear your thoughts on White, and why you think mafia would want to kill White on N1. (because I killed Flameaxe)

rest of your targets

now

Seconded.

...you're asking?

[Ether]

Fonz (tracker) and Skruffs (cop) had both claimed before being nightkilled.

So I'd assume Tornado killed Setael1, no one and Sc­øpe on Nights 2, 3 and 4. If there's a third killer, he'd probably have mentioned it.

[Ether]

I would also like to hear your thoughts on White, and why you think mafia would want to kill White on N1. (because I killed Flameaxe)

[Ether]

I didn't expect Lemming to target TS, personally. She claimed cop; he took her scumminess for

granted

. And we've, uh, just established that I'm

not

making that assumption that Zorg as an individual is optimal.

But "optimal" is a strawman anyway. This isn't strategy; it's common sense. Everyone keeps track of who suspects it, and if a scumbag knows that a cop is likely to get a guilty on it, it'll roleblock said cop if it can. Simple.

JDodge/ZONEACE/Kore: 'Cause it was obvious. Why did you ask?

Setael: what the hell kind of serial killer would kill Flameaxe and Sc­øpe?

[Ether]

Why would that be helpful?

[Ether]

JDodge: Who did you kill?

Kore shines a flashlight in Tornado's eyes.

Tornado: Stop! I surrender! I killed Setael and Elmo!
Elmo: Oh. Hmm.
Ether: I suppose he's confirmed now.
ZONEACE: Wait just a minute--Tornado is a liar! Setael and Elmo are

alive!

vote: Sir Tornado

...like that?

[Ether]

Yes.

[Ether]

I haven't cleared ZONEACE, because Lemming stopped attacking him altogether and moved on to new targets a long time before Night 1. Three weeks. In contrast, Lemming was clearly in MoS's face up 'til the end.

I think any nonmason scum are in {Elmo, JDodge, ZONEACE}. After they're dead, I'd move to the masons. You can probably predict this last sentence.

[Ether]

Hi, I posted 26 hours before this. *waves*

49 hours--and that's because I got you prodded. Before that, you've been posting like once a week. Your track record's fine, but your infrequency prevents you from, like...accomplishing anything. I can't read that. Please play with us.

Because it was nowhere near as obvious as you think.

Um, yes it was.

Flameaxe came up mason. Why would a vig be more likely to kill him than an SK would? I've never been an SK so I don't know how they decide their targets, but aren't they just as likely to want to get rid of scummy players as players who seem protown? Am I missing something?

I don't have hands-on experience, either, but I personally expect a serial killer to aim for

threats

, not easy lynches, and Flameaxe clearly fell into the latter category regardless of his alignment. (For what it's worth, I interrogated him Night 1 and I'd have gone for the throat the next day if he'd survived.)

I disagree with the Kill All Nonmasons plan, as we've established.

[Ether]

Tornado supported it.

I think we should kill {Elmo, JDodge, ZONEACE}, as I've stated, and then move to the masons--so not today or tomorrow. I don't believe that any of {Kore, MoS, Setael2, Tornado} are scum; I think a fullscum mason is more likely. I don't actually think a fullscum mason is

that

unbalanced.

Setael2, I'm going to intentionally avoid your question and PM my thoughts to the masons at night.

Also, limited access--in fact, I should be packing

now.

[Ether]

I think the scum killed White because of his interactions with TS.

MoS and Setael2 are town. Seriously. Don't you dare vig them. (Also, acknowledge my treatment of MoS.) I don't get what you see in JDodge--he only wagonned White when it was safe. But you can totally vig Elmo instead if you want. We can lynch JDodge.

I think Bookitty is just doing whatever she can to discredit me at this point. Am I biased here?

[Ether]

So, uh...someone remind me

why

Setael2 is supposed to be scum. (ZONEtown would also be nice.)

My argument for clearing MoS is not "a bit meh." My argument for clearing MoS is a compelling glimpse into the gears of common sense. Don't vig him.

Do you think this votecount was a gambit?

Bookitty, I'm under the impression that you're trying to discredit

me

personally, and not disprove the overall "Why MoS is obvobvobvtown" case or show me the light. I don't like how you invoked ZONEACE--you obviously aren't interested in clearing both of them, so why should he enter into it?

Why did you ask MoS for his opinion?

Also, what's your view on Elmo?

Actually I wagoned White until I realized that nobody else wanted to wagon White - this is what we call "compromise".

Meaning Tornado's defense of you in 2373 doesn't work.

You really think so? TS was more or less on borrowed time at the end of N1. It makes this scenario unlikely.

That's still a reason to nightkill White--they obviously weren't scum together; he wouldn't be lynched.

[Ether]

By stopping.

The line "whatever the hell Sir T said" suggests that you don't actually know what you're arguing--why bullshit about it?

[Ether]

Tornado, your logic doesn't point to MoScum or Setscum over other people. And why wouldn't ZONEACE's behavior be a null ZONEtell?

Bookitty, I don't think your argument objectively aims to seek the truth and find out whether my argument in MoS's favor is actually valid. You're just blindly trying to keep MoS on the agenda.

I wanted his opinion because HIS opinion is the only one that can explain that scumlist. Not yours, not mine, but his. Should MoS not be questioned by ANYONE because you're sure he's town? Why SHOULDN'T I have asked MoS for his opinion?

Uh. Not that opinion. Why did you care what MoS thought about my defense of him? It feels to me that you were hoping for

him

to tell me to drop it since you couldn't persuade me yourself.

I don't like MoS's scumlist. I think it's basically a lurker list, which is usually a pretty safe move for scum. I think it's odd that he basically doesn't address Setael2 or Korejora who WERE giving content, puts one lurker as town and the other two as scum.

You just contradicted yourself.

I've already established that MoS is town, so no, I don't think Flare's vote can be bussing. This makes the votecount less interesting to me than it should be to a believer of SetMoS. Now answer me.

I didn't like Flare's play through early Day 1, no. There are no tells I can cite after that--he flaked; it was that early play that left the bad taste in my mouth. (Colin mentioned that he had a positive metagame on Flare, and if he can back me up here, that'd be nice.)

Setael2 replaced in later. I agreed with the nature of her attacks in her spat with you, and she attacked BM. And...eh. She just feels town to me. She feels different than she did in Farscape and S&S2. More involved.

I don't get what the case against her actually

is

; I've asked but no one seems willing to respond. So I'm unsure how to defend her further than that.

I love how you're putting the burden on me. I asked you what

your

take on that votecount was, and you asked me obvious questions to avoid actually answering. I asked you why Setael2 and MoS are scum. Your stance on MoS appears to be a pairing between him and ZONEACE/Elmo. (Also, you've been scary-lenient on Elmo in contrast to those other two. God, I hate vig politics.) And you've never answered for Setael2 at all--just asked me why I think she

isn't

scum.

I've already clearly stated who I am willing and not willing to lynch. You view ZONEACE, JDodge and Elmo as lurkers--so yes, I'd be up for a lurker lynch.

I've also already stated clearly why I'm voting ZONEACE--I'm trying to give Tornado a good wide chance to do something intelligent.

[Ether]

Patrick refused to make me a tooth fairy, so I'm going to take his top of the page.

Bookitty, MoS has already explained multiple times that, while ZONEACE's play was acceptable for Day 1, his pronounced pattern of not scumhunting ever by Day 5 is a different story. You'll notice that he's nonetheless voting JDodge; I don't know where you pulled "obvobvscum" from.

I'm defending MoS because I defend people who are obvtown. Especially when they're in danger of being vigged if I don't. This behavior should be familiar--but it's amplified here between the vig and the fact that I'm more confident with my town reads in this game than my scum reads.

I know you criticized Elmo--but mostly, you were doing it to call attention to the double-standards of other people. You didn't really attack Elmo directly. Now you're spouting something about how other people are ignoring

MoS

, which is bullshit. I cannot believe that you would vote MoS over Elmo, and I do think it hints at a pairing.

"I've already established that MOS is town"? You've given your REASONS for thinking so, but that isn't proof of anything, Ether.

I've already established that MoS is town, so no, I don't think Flare's vote can be bussing. This makes the votecount less interesting to me than it should be to a believer of SetMoS. Now answer me.

You're ignoring the context of this particular statement: "No, Flare was not bussing MoS for the simple reason MoS is not scum. Because I hold this opinion, this votecount which I brought up means nothing to me. Your turn."

You're avoiding so many, many questions, Bookitty.

Having said all that, I'm not wild about Niv's 2398. Niv, make a List.

[Ether]

I'm back from Cape Cod. Kore is win. Elmo is still probscum, but I'm happy for his sake that he's caught onto my new prodspamming campaign and taking initiative.

That scumbag Bookitty is still avoiding my questions to her.

Since he, like, asked, ZONEACE's votes on TS and BM were too late to give him points, and his avoiding BM up until that -1 works against him. I like JDodge's 2421, for reasons you can probably guess.

Hm. I remember there were a bunch of people attacking Flare, and then they've kinda segued away from that as Setael replaced in. I don't know if that's distancing or what, but I can't help thinking something's up with it - Flare's scumminess is the biggest thing in my mind, at the moment, and I'm now wishing I'd done more about it at the time.

I find this very difficult to believe.

I don't share Ether's sentiments about Setael; she doesn't feel qualitatively different to S&S2 from my point of view, although perhaps that's just a difference in how we perceive people. I wouldn't be surprised if she were scum here, at least.

Eh. I'll admit that what I noticed of her there was basically Day 1, and you'd probably be a better authority. But judging by your conduct toward her there as opposed to here, I'm thinking there

is

a different.

How'd you feel she's "blindly trying to keep MoS on the agenda"? I feel it's important that people question my own reasoning, it acts as a kind of safety net in case I slip up somewhere... I don't really get the hate, at the moment.

I've answered this. I don't get a vibe that she's looking for the truth, or that she's trying to learn my train of thought, or anything like that. She invokes Zorg's activity without asking Patrick about its implications; she goes on about my double-standards between MoS and that other guy Lemming was attacking three weeks ago; she even asks MoS his opinion, which feels like a last resort to see if he'll be modest and back her up. It's not curiosity. She's already decided I'm wrong, yet her stream of justifications for this have been consistently flawed.

Do you think JDodge is scum, Ether?

...maybe.

I'll

vote: ZONEACE

to better manipulate Tornado.

I don't understand this? I also don't understand what point you're trying to make with that vote count.

I have no idea what's going on here. I would at first think it's contradictory, since Sir Tornado was going to vig Setael or MOS because he was confident ZONEACE was a lynch possibility and not them, and that was pretty much the last thing Ether wanted, but this 'manipulation vote' happened before he said that.

Tornado had said he'd kill one of {Elmo, JDodge, MoS, Setael}. My nonmason candidates for scum are {Elmo, JDodge, ZONEACE}. A ZONElynch would have maximized the chances of a decent vig. (Since then, Tornado's decided to be contrary. Meh.)

[Ether]

Bookitty, my calling you a scumbag in the game wasn't intended as a personal attack. I still love you. (Also, Patrick tells me you're better now. So please come back to ScumChat.)

Please refer to the exchange, starting in my 2383 and "responded" to in your 2388. Note my repetition, along with some new accusations, in 2396. Most of them aren't really centered on MoS at all.

I'll quote them outright if you'd like.

[Ether]

Why did you care what MoS thought about my defense of him? It feels to me that you were hoping for

him

to tell me to drop it since you couldn't persuade me yourself.

It was not just you, it was you and ZONEACE together. When someone starts insisting *I* am confirmed town when I'm not, I get really nervous. He has agreed that he's not confirmed town. In his position I wouldn't be turning down allies either, but considering that if you're not the traitor mason, you don't have proof that he's town, and if you are, your opinion can't be trusted.

Here's what you actually asked MoS:

Essentially Ether is saying that you are town due to the scum not roleblocking Lemming. I'm sure you've read our arguments back and forth on the subject. Do you believe that her argument is a valid one in regards to you? Do you believe that the same reasoning would also clear ZONEACE?

Your questions to MoS had nothing to do with his read on me or ZONEACE. (Don't say you were asking about clearing ZONEACE; his behavior toward MoS was irrelevant here.) So that's a contradiction.

I already did answer this. I don't see the contradiction, and you haven't pointed it out.

First you said MoS's List was a lurkerlist; then you said that it seemed odd how he placed some lurkers in one category and some in another.

I do note once again that you're claiming MoS as town as a fact, not an opinion, and basing all your other suspicions on this first assumption.

You're ignoring the context of this particular statement: "No, Flare was not bussing MoS for the simple reason MoS is not scum. Because I hold this opinion, this votecount which I brought up means nothing to me. Your turn."

The question I actually asked was what you thought the significance of TS, Zorg/BM and Flare/Setael2 all voting MoS one after the other would be--since you were suspicious of both Setael2 and MoS. If you're dropping Setael2, it gets much less interesting, though I guess TS and BM were still there.

If MoS is town, then by stating over and over that he's confirmed town, you've set him up for the nightkill. You're aware of this, Ether?

Heh. I kept going at it 'cause you made me keep going at it.

I do agree with MoS that this is a stupid guilt-trip, though.

I have not been scary-lenient on Elmo -- I believe you're actually confusing me with MoS, who listed Elmo as second most town, the original cause of this renewed suspicion. I have not done so. Others have defended his contribution. Again, I have not done so.

Yeah, but...you've

voted

ZONEACE and MoS. All of your Elmohate feels...indirect. There's not much I can say here--I don't like it.

Your explanation for the Sethate is fair enough.

I have a meta on Setael that I didn't have previously, so I'm going to tentatively say that I think she might be town here, and retract my vig request on her.

What was the game and the meta?

Just to cancel out Bookitty, I'll point out that I'd like a Korevig even less than a Setvig. I sort of want to lynch/vig ZONEACE and Elmo before JDodge at this point, but I don't have a great argument for this and I wouldn't really oppose killing any of the three.

[Ether]

Can I have forty-eight hours before I answer that?

[Ether]

On second thoughts, the ZONEhate's cooled down enough that I won't get anything out of waiting.

To the first part--ZONEACE continues to be the nonmason I find most suspicious, yes. I find MoS, Setael2 and Kore all specifically townly.

To the second part--yes. With Elmo dead as traitor, I believe more than ever that there's a fullscum mason.

To the third part--eh, not really, but please don't invoke this paragraph if I change my mind again.

I bugged Niv last night and got his List out of him; ZONEACE is in his town category and MoS is the scummiest person on his nonmason list. I first asked him to elaborate about 84 hours ago; he said he'd do so this morning.

I kind of think that earlier today, when it

did

look like ZONEACE could get speedlynched and MoS was pushing this, would have been an excellent time. But this would be stronger if the exchange was stretched out over a longer time; also, Niv seems to be inactive everywhere right now. At this point, I just want the explanations.

[Ether]

Pfeh.

Can you explain why that is the case?

I did change my mind on Ryan a few times up until I learned of Fonz's alignment, so that should say I like the case for MoStown more. Ryan apparently did not understand the danger he was in; I think MoS has more common sense than that. I'm not really sure how to elaborate, but Ryan's alignment there does not make me feel worse here.

[Ether]

Well, I meant to quote Bookitty in 2537.

[Ether]

Niv should keep talking.

[Ether]

I agree with Setael2.

Speaking of which, I'm feeling pretty good about my meta on her right now. She's town.

Dammit Sophie this is not helping this is totally not helping.

[Ether]

(hug)

I know the feeling, but I wish you wouldn't do that.

Your alt should have an AIM screen name, at least. ¬_¬

[Ether]

Top choice: Colin
Second choice: Niv
Why I'm not voting: I pulled those names out of my ass and they'll be different in five minutes.

(Names that have been in earlier drafts of this post include Bookitty and Korejora, who is my highest nonmason suspect. Which is stupid. I don't have a clue why I'd dislike Kore; it's process of elimination taken to a silly degree. And I'm still only meh on ZONEACE. Hell, I can't spell out any good reason to flip on Colin

now

, though that one's not really process of elimination. Ugh. But yeah, let's lynch a mason.)

Deadline's coming. I'm starting to think it was being stalled for.

Elaborate?

If I vote for Mastermind of Sin, Ether will come screaming from nowhere to explain once again how MoS is not scum and never has been scum and never will be scum and any attempt to get information from MoS will be derailed by Ether's impassioned defence of him.

"Any attempt to get information from MoS" != vote. I'm not really too vocal beyond making sure my stance is known as long I don't think he's in danger, and I blame you for our spat.

Setael is still town.

[Ether]

...huh?

[Ether]

That wasn't an analysis.

[Ether]

I think each individual mason is scummier than each individual nonmason.

Beyond that, I do not have the slightest idea who I want to lynch.

[Ether]

vote: Bookitty

[Ether]

So, uh, about your predecessor's lyncher claim...

[Ether]

Any chance of you giving any analysis, Ether?

Probably. What kind and by when?

Do you think, if there are two scum left, they are both contained in the masons?

I'm trying to decide how likely I find this. It would explain a lot about my read on the game, but I am somewhat scared that this read is biasing me.

Colin--comparing our contrasting suspicions and the fact that I don't think I've ever played with you, why

am

I town?

[Ether]

Meh.

Currently you've expressed that your top three suspicions are among the masons. It would be helpful if you could make some sort of case against each of them, or even just explain briefly why you think they are all suspicious. You want to lynch a mason today, but you aren't giving anyone a reason to do so.

Process of elimination. Also "I have no clue where Colin is coming from," "Niv is a lurky little wagonhopper" and "oh, please, Bookitty, you can't

possibly

be pushing that."

(I'm interested in reading more about Colin's 2690, and that's only partly for egotistical reasons.)

MoS is town, Setael is town, Korejora is town; only ZONEACE is left to be scum.

Actually, I don't think ZONEACE is scum, either.

During a discussion in nighttalk, you indicated that Aimee was your top suspicion at that time. Yet since Korejora replaced Aimee, you haven't pushed nor mentioned that. Can you explain why you were suspicious of Aimee originally, and why those suspicions have apparently completely dissipated now?

I didn't like Aimee as a cross between not doing anything even before she'd disappeared, and the doubt she threw on Lemming in 965. I also thought she was tunnel-visioned on BM/Zorg. (I said at the time that this made a pairing less likely, but actually, that's probably not valid due to her inactivity.)

I changed my mind based on Kore's big spat with BM, and our similar wavelengths on Day 5. (I still do have an easier time seeing her as scum than seeing the other nonmasons as scum, but not by much. That's not an "I'm angling to vote Kore," which I am still not going to do; that's an "if you lynch her as town, I won't bitch quite as loudly, though I

will

take it as absolute proof that it's masonlynching time.")

Hmm.

Why

are

two masonscum much more unlikely than one, in a vacuum? Is it just tradition?

[Ether]

Regardless of what now occurs, I'm certain that people won't forget that he slipped onto this wagon, and that you pushed it, and your arguments will be reexamined in light of whatever else we discover. I don't fear such. At this point, if I'm lynched, I think town has enough information and content to win, so I'm not worried either way.

Bookitty, I've told you. This statement and your ensuing argument with Setael2 over it pushed me over the edge on Day 4--this stance was the polar opposite of the "I could be wrong" meta you were busy drilling into me in another ongoing game at around the same time. I dropped this specific argument later, when you said it was a signalling attempt. (There were other factors, which I've also addressed, but that's what prompted me to vote.)

Where's the contradiction?

It's a ridiculous burden on the town.

Eh...

[Ether]

...probably still a mason.

But I'll admit that I still can't type that without feeling a little stupid.

[Ether]

The first one.

[Ether]

Who do you think is the most likely pair, assuming your theory is correct?

Good question; all I've decided is that you/Colin is the least likely. (

unvote; vote: Niv

) I know that's only half an answer; I don't really have a full one.

Did you note that Zorg's last post was on October 20th, that Zeppo was lynched October 28th, and that Battle Mage did not replace in until November 1? Does that change any of your opinions about "optimal play" by scum in this game?

Haven't we been over this? Presumably the mafia would have, like, tried to contact Zorg. To plan stuff. Like who to roleblock. Scum tend to do that.

I have no idea what you and MoS are arguing about.

[Ether]

Oh wow. I actually feel

good

about my vote for the first time in way too long. Can we push this one through?

(I don't think Bookitty/Colin makes as much sense as the pairings containing you because of the way Bookitty pushed Colin's unvoting her on Day 4. I am amused that you've twisted "least likely" into "since

believe they are mutually exclusive," although thinking further about that tell I do quite like it. I'm in a hurry--I admit that I'll probably spend some more realtime sulking in a corner if you're town, but...I'm not actually concerned about this.

If the "untrustworthy" mason has to be lynched in order for the town to win at end game, then it kills the whole point of having a masonry and they all become regular players.

I hate unconfirmed masons, too.

[Ether]

Meh.

I weakly prefer the Setwagon, for what it's worth.

[Ether]

Everyone seems to love me and tolerate my withdrawl from this game, and in Niv's case, talk to me about my

feelings.

I am not sure what to make of this, except possibly emo poetry.

I still think Niv is scum.

I still don't think MoS or ZONEACE is scum.

I'm going back and forth on Colin/Niv; Niv attacked Colin at various points where it really wasn't necessary. I think Nivscum would have stayed back (though I don't have a meta on him). Niv/Kore? Meh.

[Ether]

In fact, everybody except two masons voted for Setael. Those masons are Ether and I. And Ether was voting the other mason, Niv.

I've trusted Ether for the entire game and I see no reason why I shouldn't trust her now.

This segue creeps me out. I will very much like to see your train of thought spelled out further.

But I probably won't see it in the near future, unless you post it today; I'll be on vacation next week.

[Ether]

Checking in belatedly. I still favor a Nivlynch. (I'm still weary toward Colin, but I suppose Bookitty's death is a valid reason for his flip today. Meh.) I do not see a conspiracy with Niv's no lynch vote specifically;

I would be surprised to be nightkilled at this point, but be my guest.

[Ether]

I...still don't think ZONEACE is scum.

I will most likely hammer Niv; in the meantime, hi.

[Ether]

Ayup.

[Ether]

...meh, screw it.

vote: Niv

[Ether]

Night 1:

(8:15:31 PM)rebelkidrules has entered the room.
CaffieneDeity(8:15:36 PM): Greetings.
rebelkidrules(8:15:38 PM): inviting buhbuh
(8:15:46 PM)Buhbuhbam13 has entered the room.
Buhbuhbam13(8:15:52 PM): woo mason party
rebelkidrules(8:15:56 PM): wup wup
CaffieneDeity(8:16:13 PM): I've put Booboo onto my AIM list, but apparently he never actually uses it.
rebelkidrules(8:16:34 PM): booboo's in the mason group?
rebelkidrules(8:16:36 PM): shit
Buhbuhbam13(8:16:39 PM): hehe
rebelkidrules(8:16:44 PM): i guess i shouldn't have tried to lynch him
rebelkidrules(8:16:46 PM): >.<
rebelkidrules(8:17:29 PM): so i suggested we try to get ts/mos lynched tomorrow
CaffieneDeity(8:18:12 PM): Flare.
rebelkidrules(8:18:25 PM): absolutely not
CaffieneDeity(8:18:55 PM): TS, my only problem is the claim, which I do not myself believe.
Buhbuhbam13(8:19:04 PM): i have doubts about the claim too
Buhbuhbam13(8:19:21 PM): the double sanity cops seems unlikely, but possible.
rebelkidrules(8:19:26 PM): ugh, ts' entire play amazes me from a town perspective
rebelkidrules(8:19:33 PM): reread it and try to think of her as a town cop
rebelkidrules(8:19:42 PM): i find it very hard to believe
rebelkidrules(8:19:50 PM): i'
rebelkidrules(8:20:07 PM): m willing to not pursue mos, but ts definately
rebelkidrules(8:20:37 PM): see this is why these conversations are a bad thing- since one of us may very well be scum (although i think the scum is booboo), i don't want my policy dictated by it
Buhbuhbam13(8:20:46 PM): /notscum
CaffieneDeity(8:20:52 PM): There are five of us.
Buhbuhbam13(8:21:23 PM): niv's outting early on made me feel uneasy about him
CaffieneDeity(8:21:43 PM): And I've heard PJ speak of the grilling potential, though I'm not sure about my own abilities there.
CaffieneDeity(8:22:35 PM): I still think the coming out was townish.
rebelkidrules(8:22:43 PM): i agree
rebelkidrules(8:22:49 PM): took a bit too much on the guts side
rebelkidrules(8:22:59 PM): unless he could have been prodded by a bolder scumbuddy
rebelkidrules(8:23:00 PM): like ts
rebelkidrules(8:23:02 PM): hey
rebelkidrules(8:23:06 PM): let's lynch ts tomorrow
CaffieneDeity(8:23:09 PM): Heh.
Buhbuhbam13(8:26:33 PM): This game needs 1 thing.
Buhbuhbam13(8:26:38 PM): A0tA wagon 07.
CaffieneDeity(8:27:08 PM): I missed wagoning you. ._.
CaffieneDeity(8:29:23 PM): Incidentally, I told Patrick I'd send transcripts to him. Any objections there?
rebelkidrules(8:29:41 PM): nope
Buhbuhbam13(8:29:45 PM): Nope. Unless this is a game where the Mod is actually scum.
rebelkidrules(8:29:56 PM): i think i want to claim mason as scum in a game
rebelkidrules(8:29:57 PM): that would be fun
CaffieneDeity(8:30:13 PM): TS has. ¬_¬
rebelkidrules(8:30:17 PM): where
CaffieneDeity(8:30:38 PM): Yakuza.
rebelkidrules(8:31:47 PM): that's insane
554LINKCaffieneDeity(8:32:04 PM): I still think this votecount is a point strongly in MoS's favor.
CaffieneDeity(8:32:38 PM): TS was funny about Flare.
rebelkidrules(8:33:03 PM): eh i'd expect ts to bus mos
rebelkidrules(8:33:13 PM): the thing that's interesting is that mos was so tame on ts
rebelkidrules(8:33:26 PM): practically preparing for a counter claim
Buhbuhbam13(8:34:09 PM): ts/mos/booboo scum group, obvobv
rebelkidrules(8:36:02 PM): i'd be down with that
CaffieneDeity(8:36:22 PM): I still doubt it.
545LINKCaffieneDeity(8:38:52 PM): And I think the contradiction I pointed out here suggests Flare/TS. The early MoSwagon was just iffy in every way.
rebelkidrules(8:39:22 PM): eh
rebelkidrules(8:39:23 PM): again
rebelkidrules(8:39:26 PM): i'm not entirely convinced
rebelkidrules(8:39:57 PM): i'd much rather focus my efforts on lynching ts, who is probably going to get a lot of suporters tomorrow
rebelkidrules(8:40:00 PM): and who can blame them
rebelkidrules(8:40:02 PM): -_-
CaffieneDeity(8:40:07 PM): Also, Dad is yelling at me to get off.
rebelkidrules(8:40:15 PM): i have an unfortunately one track mind
rebelkidrules(8:40:23 PM): i'd do it
rebelkidrules(8:40:27 PM): don't let him ban you again
CaffieneDeity(8:41:33 PM): ...bah.
(8:41:48 PM)rebelkidrules has left the room.

CaffieneDeity (8:14:07 PM): Night phase in Normal 70 (Zeppo was town). I don't hold with this "don't talk if not confirmed" nonsense: there are five of us, so our suspicions aren't exactly going to be lost forever even if we're not giving them out in-thread. I'm not sure what to make of TS's behavior toward the mason lodge (I initially thought she was fishing), but Flameaxe's 333 challenge of Beastly's TSvote while he himself wasn't voting was iffy, and he never really gave a stance on her cop claim or much else. I'm thinking about how best to grill Flameaxe--and preferably not just about TS. Discuss.

(Ether is invited to the mason chat and told that Flameaxe has also been invited)

CaffieneDeity (8:16:36 PM): ...preferably without Flameaxe?
rebelkidrules (8:17:05 PM): i'm pretty sure bbb isn't scum
rebelkidrules (8:17:17 PM): he sounds damn genuine in my conversations with him
CaffieneDeity (8:17:51 PM): Send?
rebelkidrules (8:18:06 PM): well first of all
rebelkidrules (8:18:08 PM): he contacted me
rebelkidrules (8:18:14 PM): and has made an effort of contacting me
rebelkidrules (8:18:19 PM): but sure
CaffieneDeity (8:28:07 PM): Still send?
rebelkidrules (8:28:39 PM): sorry
rebelkidrules (8:28:41 PM): sure
rebelkidrules (8:28:44 PM): by pm
CaffieneDeity (8:28:48 PM): 'Kay.
rebelkidrules (8:28:58 PM): timestamps?
CaffieneDeity (8:29:15 PM): I don't care either way; go ahead.
rebelkidrules (8:41:49 PM): *** This user has signed off and is no longer online ***

Buhbuhbam13: halo mason buddy
rebelkidrules: hi
rebelkidrules: let's just quickly go over suspicions just in case one of us dies
Buhbuhbam13: are you still not scum?
rebelkidrules: i am still not scum lawl u?
rebelkidrules: my list: ts, mos
Buhbuhbam13: no lulz
Buhbuhbam13: i didnt get good vibes from TS' claim honestly.
rebelkidrules: i cannot imagine a situation where ts isn't scum
Buhbuhbam13: right
rebelkidrules: but i may have to settle for mos anyway
rebelkidrules: do you have a list?
Buhbuhbam13: well, from early on i didnt like Niv's outting of you two
Buhbuhbam13: because you didnt respond well with 'hi'
Buhbuhbam13: lemme take a look at the player list

CaffieneDeity (11:38:04 PM): Have you spoken to Niv or Booboo?
Buhbuhbam13 (11:38:14 PM): No
CaffieneDeity (11:39:02 PM): (Personally, I've PMed Booboo but not Niv. He's picked up the PM but failed to respond.)
Buhbuhbam13 (11:39:10 PM): Hmm
CaffieneDeity (11:41:06 PM): To be honest, I find your own agreement with the TS/MoS deal iffy--I can't remember you ever commenting on MoS. What do you think about him?
Buhbuhbam13 (11:41:39 PM): Let me do another quick read on him here in a few minutes
CaffieneDeity (11:46:00 PM): What do you think of him right now?
Buhbuhbam13 (11:46:20 PM): just seemed like alot of town leading, honestly
CaffieneDeity (11:46:47 PM): Why the Zeppovote?
Buhbuhbam13 (11:47:10 PM): preventing NL
CaffieneDeity (11:47:46 PM): "No, Zeppo voting is the only path to the light!" I see.
Buhbuhbam13 (11:47:57 PM): obv jokepost
CaffieneDeity (11:48:00 PM): "Oh and Vote: Zeppo for reasons stated above."
CaffieneDeity (11:49:59 PM): What are your opinions of Zorg and White?
CaffieneDeity (11:52:56 PM): You needn't hesitate.
CaffieneDeity (11:53:25 PM): I'm not really waiting for research; a general impression is fine.
CaffieneDeity (11:57:01 PM): Also, I'm going to have to sleep at some point and it's going to leave a bad taste in my mouth if you can't answer.
CaffieneDeity (12:08:58 AM): So, yeah. I'm going to wait and read what my psychology class group came up with, and then I'm going to bed, probably sending this transcript out first.

Flameaxe has been typing away in ScumChat this whole time. Unless you have a really lenient metagame on him, I'm thinking he was buddying up to you.

I also sent Booboo a PM flat-out asking him who the scum were; he picked it up and hasn't responded at all. Dunno. They could both be scum, I guess, hopefully not together. Booboo feels so easy; I'm not sure how to say anything logical on this subject.

I'm about to contact Niv, but only to ask him if he uses AIM. I'm not sending him this transcript immediately--I want him to talk around a bit or confirm that he has no realtime interrogation capacity of his own. Give him his own chances to socialize first.

Hi. PMs are kind of awkward. Do you have AIM? (Even though I claim to be Unvote, I'm more commonly found at CaffieneDeity. Flameaxe and Colin both put up their AIM screen names publically, I think. Booboo, I've never seen on AIM and I put him on my buddy list some time in the middle of Day 1.)

i have Windows live messanger.

my Email is Willielahay282@hotmail.com if you can add me, feel free

I'm sandsong@gmail.com, but really, I pay more attention to my PMbox here than to my e-mail address, and they're both slowish.

It seams i was able to add you to my IMing service

I strongly, strongly encourage you to make use of your AIM, but this'll have to do for now.

Who's scum and why?

By the way, you do realized that I'm aware that you picked up my last PM over 24 hours ago and ignored it, right?

Yes. Im going to ask for a replacement by the way.

CaffieneDeity (8:26:08 PM): So, uh, can we discuss the PM I sent you?
rebelkidrules (8:27:49 PM): i'll let you know when i have time
CaffieneDeity (8:28:25 PM): Okay...
rebelkidrules (8:30:38 PM): probably not until 9:30
CaffieneDeity (8:30:57 PM): What are you doing?
rebelkidrules (8:31:15 PM): hw mostly
rebelkidrules (8:31:24 PM): some random posting in threads telling them i won't be active
CaffieneDeity (8:31:44 PM): Ah.
CaffieneDeity (9:27:32 PM): Is this close enough?
Auto Response From rebelkidrules (9:27:33 PM): essays
rebelkidrules (9:28:03 PM): okay
CaffieneDeity (9:28:33 PM): Well?
rebelkidrules (9:28:40 PM): reading
rebelkidrules (9:28:55 PM): hrm
rebelkidrules (9:29:13 PM): i could pursue booboo tomorrow alternatively
rebelkidrules (9:29:35 PM): i'm reading your transcript now
CaffieneDeity (9:29:54 PM): (Incidentally, Booboo's also pathetic. I sent him another PM telling him sweetly that I saw him pick up his PM over 24 hours ago.)
rebelkidrules (9:30:06 PM): oh wow
CaffieneDeity (9:30:09 PM): (But he hasn't picked it up yet.)
rebelkidrules (9:30:11 PM): i agree with that
rebelkidrules (9:30:21 PM): oh, i dislike that a great deal
rebelkidrules (9:31:05 PM): hrm
rebelkidrules (9:31:11 PM): that changes my mind a bit about flameaxe
rebelkidrules (9:31:17 PM): however
rebelkidrules (9:31:58 PM): i'd rather pressure booboo simply because he's more likely to break and i don't feel like presenting any sort of inconsistency among the masons yet, let alone outing them, so we can't really bring an argument against bbb
CaffieneDeity (9:34:12 PM): That's kind of annoyed me, because while I agree, I have yet to put a finger on why considering my feelings about both Booboo and Flameaxe. (Niv gave me his e-mail address in the meantime, but, yeah, there won't be any 5-person AIM hearts to heart.)
CaffieneDeity (9:40:02 PM): Flameaxe is no longer idle.
rebelkidrules (9:41:29 PM): *** This user has signed off and is no longer online ***

[Ether]

Night 3:

I say we go after Jdodge/kscope tomorrow.

Who do you think the scums are?

Aimee is my least favorite person right now, and Yamahako's innocence makes her even worse. It's annoying that she's inactive.

I'd be up for a Scøpewagon, and would have suggested it myself; at the very least the pressure might make him do something.

MoS's old {TS, Zorg/BM, Flare/Setael2} votecount is messing with my head yet again. I wouldn't mind a Dodgewagon, I don't think.

Unvote (4:25:36 PM): Speaking of which, I should probably figure out something to say about Mafia 70 at some point.
BooKitty64098 (4:26:04 PM): I'm thinking Flare is definitely scum.
BooKitty64098 (4:26:08 PM): Setael now.
BooKitty64098 (4:26:22 PM): she went to Yamahako in a heartbeat.
BooKitty64098 (4:27:16 PM): and I ... think, only think, that the mason thing is a miller thing.
Unvote (4:27:27 PM): I'm suspecting that as well.
BooKitty64098 (4:27:58 PM): Opinion on BM?
Unvote (4:28:13 PM): Mostly because of TS's fishing at the end of Day 1. (I still grilled Flameaxe Night 1 and would probably have gone for the throat, except he was, y'know, nightkilled.)
Unvote (4:28:19 PM): There was a votecount early on.
BooKitty64098 (4:28:41 PM): yes, reread put Flameaxe as scum for me too.
BooKitty64098 (4:29:05 PM): so I agree. Thinking miller.
Unvote (4:29:54 PM): MoS had {TS, Zorg/BM, Flare/Setael2, Yamahako}, bad reasons all around at some point. This has screwed with my head over MoS, BM, Setael2 and JDodge.
BooKitty64098 (4:30:32 PM): I don't like Skruffs doing that whole weird FOS.
Unvote (4:30:50 PM): Skruffs is Lemming. Skruffs is also Skruffs. So.
BooKitty64098 (4:31:14 PM): yes, just not getting him. What's the deal with ZONEACE, why won't he just say?
BooKitty64098 (4:31:20 PM): I'm not following his hunch...
BooKitty64098 (4:31:27 PM): I'll follow his investigation if he wants.
BooKitty64098 (4:31:53 PM): but BM's analysis was useless Sad
BooKitty64098 (4:32:00 PM): between Flare and Zorg, who would you pick?
Unvote (4:32:08 PM): "Mod note: Due to threats on my life if I don't comply, I'm changing Toaster Strudel's role name to "Mafia Godmother" for political correctness." (Between this and Flameaxe's and Setael's hunch, I'd be an obvvig if I wasn't a mason.)
Unvote (4:32:12 PM): Flare.
BooKitty64098 (4:32:40 PM): yes. I'm dense, I don't get the general case on Zorg. I got my own, but it looked weird to me.
Unvote (4:32:40 PM): My least favorite player in the game right now is Aimee, but the inactivity gets in the way.
BooKitty64098 (4:32:56 PM): yes. she's generally inactive though.
BooKitty64098 (4:33:03 PM): I didn't see her as scum, I'll do a reread.
Unvote (4:33:30 PM): I know, I mean from a wagonning her and making her do something or die perspective.
BooKitty64098 (4:33:36 PM): but Setael is weirdly conciliatory and not pushing a case.
BooKitty64098 (4:33:41 PM): Oh... I'll help with that.
Unvote (4:34:21 PM): Colin PMed me earlie--ooh, he's on now.

(4:35:20 PM)rebelkidrules has entered the room.
(4:35:20 PM)BooKitty64098 has entered the room.
(4:35:20 PM)rebelkidrules has entered the room.
(4:35:20 PM)rebelkidrules has left the room.
(4:35:20 PM)BooKitty64098 has entered the room.
Unvote(4:35:48 PM): Um.
Unvote(4:35:49 PM): Hmm.
BooKitty64098(4:35:58 PM): he won't come here?
BooKitty64098(4:36:30 PM): if you want to relay, my thoughts are, Flare, possibly BM, willing to help pressure Aimee...
BooKitty64098(4:36:34 PM): miller mason likely
BooKitty64098(4:37:06 PM): suspicious of Sir Tornado. Might build a case there.
Unvote(4:37:20 PM): Anyway, he said histop suspects were JDodge and Scøpe. I'm confused about JDodge. Iwouldn't mind pressuring Scøpe and seeing if he gets his act together.
BooKitty64098(4:37:25 PM): want Skruffs to explain the ZONEACE thing.
BooKitty64098(4:37:33 PM): sure, I'll go for scope but I doubt he's scum.
BooKitty64098(4:37:44 PM): he's too dense in his targeting.
Unvote(4:37:59 PM): "rebelkidrules (4:37:13 PM): brb 40 minutes"
BooKitty64098(4:38:48 PM): feeling about Erg0?
Unvote(4:39:08 PM): BM buried some point about ZONEACE in there that I actually think should probably be repeated.
Unvote(4:39:39 PM): I like Erg0. That impression is from Day 1 when we were trying to kill Flare together, though.
BooKitty64098(4:40:19 PM): to semiquote Simenon: people I'd wagon, in order of preference: Flare, BM, Aimee (for inactivity), Sir Tornado, ZONEACE, scope, Erg0.
BooKitty64098(4:40:24 PM): and maybe MoS.
BooKitty64098(4:40:29 PM): keep going back and forth on him.
Unvote(4:41:25 PM): I should probably just reread at some point. ¬_¬ I hate saying that.
BooKitty64098(4:41:30 PM): I do all the time.
BooKitty64098(4:41:37 PM): if you want I'll do analysis on anyone you ask for.
Unvote(4:41:45 PM): Oh, doing it isn't a problem.
BooKitty64098(4:42:04 PM): but I'm awful at scumhunting.
Unvote(4:42:04 PM): I always feel guilt saying I ought to do it.
BooKitty64098(4:42:12 PM): so you'd have to sift.
BooKitty64098(4:42:49 PM): anyway, I have to go, make food and play GW Smile
BooKitty64098(4:42:53 PM): -hugses-
BooKitty64098(4:42:59 PM): thanks for talking
Unvote(4:43:01 PM): *counterhugs, waves*
(4:43:30 PM)BooKitty64098 has left the room.

Unvote (4:36:35 PM): That was for Mafia 70, not ScumChat.
rebelkidrules (4:37:06 PM): i accidentally clicked on it and i don't like joining chatrooms without realizing beforehand
rebelkidrules (4:37:07 PM): regardless
rebelkidrules (4:37:13 PM): brb 40 minutes

Night 5:

I'm kind of in a hurry--did you ever post that list I wanted? Regardless, PM it to me now.

The non mason list:

Scummy:
Mastermind of Sin

Neutral:
Elmo
Korejora

Town:
ZONEACE
Setael
Sir Tornado (Claim)

Masons: scum - town
Simenon
Bookitty
Niv
Ether

Nice list. o.0

Elaborate, please. (Obviously I disagree on a lot of that.)

I'm aware that you picked up my last PM at least 24ish hours ago--the one asking you to elaborate on your List. Please respond.

I picked it up, was planning on typing it up with some more thought an posting it in the morning.

For nighttalk, I value speed over quality. I'm looking for your train of thought.

Any night I missed, we (I, at least) probably didn't discuss in.

[Ether]

I hate my play this game, and it just got worse and worse. I was amazed I picked up so little flak, but the scumgroup makes it a lot easier to believe.

Interrogating Flameaxe was fun, though.