Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Tywin Lannister]

No. Tywin making the game unreadable means he dies.

What is unreadable? Wall posts? That's not unreadable. That's you being lazy. If you can't read it, then you have larger (and far more important) real life issues to take care of. Reading a paragraph or two literally takes a minute, and that's only if you're a slow reader.

As far as me dying, that's going to happen regardless. At least pay attention to what I'm saying before I flip town and you blame me for you railroading me literally the entire game without reason.

[Tywin Lannister]

Honestly Titus, if Cabd didn't somewhat confirm you (and I still believe there may be a loophole that makes you scum, but whatever), I'd have to consider you scum for your railroad of me. You've never bothered looking at my slot objectively. Not even once. You've never tried to consider that my play is so anti-scum in the way it's gone down, that it would literally be insane to believe I'm scum. Players like Nos do jack shit all game and skate by for it, and you guys have lynched town after town everyday, yet you can't seem to get over the fact that your reads are just WRONG. Why? Normally, the only conclusion is that you are scum, but with Cabd saying otherwise, it makes me wonder what exactly you are thinking this entire game. It certainly isn't about catching real scum. So what is it? Ego?

Your railroading of me is inherently anti-town and against the book on how to be a good townie. That's why I've consistently said you are scum, because your play in this game has been bad by all objective measures on what town should do. Railroading without reason, never being objective, conf biasing everything, ignoring town wagons, ignoring flips and what they mean, and ignoring half the players in the game for no legitimate reason... If this is how you play normally as town, I'll probably advocate for you to be a policy lynch from now on. I haven't seen you play like this elsewhere though, so I'm hoping this is just a really bad one-off. Otherwise, you're scum and Cabd fucked is with his claim. I really can't tell.

[Tywin Lannister]

Votecount 1.F

Lapsa 9 (Pine, CloudKicker, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko, Cabd, Syryana, Alisae)

Nosferatu 3 (Elbirn, xSoniaNevermindx, Lapsa)
Titus 3 (Nero Cain, mozamis, Tywin Lannister)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatu)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Try again tywin

I was also pretty clear on thinking moz scum but you know just keep lying about things

I've asked for two days now for someone to say why they thought moz was scum. I've never heard a peep.

Also, mod error on that nos wagon. I was on it too. Mod didn't see my vote. Didn't matter and wasn't brought up due to Lapsa getting lynched regardless, but I was also on Nos.

So you try again. Why am I scum?

[Tywin Lannister]

Gamma should be tomorrow's lynch. He really is obvious scum.

Kyouko may be his partner. Gamma is the obvious one though. Pretty sure I've said this all game too, although I haven't gunned for him over others.

So tomorrow (or tonight), kill Gamma plz. He's so fucking obvious that it's as blatant as Moz was being a Townie. I couldn't for the life of me see why anyone would scrum read Moz. He was the most yownie player in the game by a fucking mile. His wagon was a joke of epic proportions. Gamma is blatantly scum in that same regard. I've forgotten he existed quite a few times with his bullshit no-content prod dodging, but he really does need to go.

Elibrin, I hope you learn how to scum read after I'm lynched. It's a learn 2 play issue, but I have faith in you.

[Tywin Lannister]

You know what man just fuck you you're flipping red and youre on ignore

When I flip green, I hope you get wagoned for refusing to answer basic fucking questions and refusing to give an actual scum case on me. Fucking ridiculous that players get away with shit like this. Learn how to answer questions and play the game how you're supposed to. Otherwise, stick to the newbie queue for a while and get better.

[Tywin Lannister]

I won't be coming back to post anymore in this thread. Scum get another day without trying.

Someone please hammer. Otherwise, you'll have to wait on my replacement. I'll flip VT like I've said all along, and then maybe people will see that scum do not play the way I have for obvious fucking reasons. It's ridiculous to even assume I'd flip scum from the start. You all knew better deep down from the beginning, so taking the easy road that leads you closer to losing only makes you a worse player in the long run. If you don't like conflict, don't play this game. If you can't handle being suspected or grilled about your actions, don't fucking play mafia. If you can't read people, their personalities, or understand what motivations drive people in this game, don't fucking play mafia. If you can't look at things objectively, rethink your confirmation biases, understand that you can be wrong, and change your minds when you ARE proven wrong, again, don't fucking play mafia. There are better games suited for you, like solitaire. Smh

[Tywin Lannister]

Last reads:

Elibirn is still town sadly.
Alisae is def town. She's not SK.
Titus is confirmed so town, but FML do I dislike her play in this specific game
AJ is town. He questions things and reads.
Sonia is town. I didn't know she was on the nos wagon, and cloud's NK probably was to implicate her.
Nero is null but still more town than scum IMO. Pure gut read tho. I could be wrong.
Syryana's slot is town. Most likely the second Mason.

Gamma is scum, Kyouko is suspect. Pine is suspect.

Am I forgetting anyone? If not, there you go. Those are my reads.

Good luck, and sorry for the toxicity.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Tywin Lannister
Putting you out of your misery.
You're scum. If you felt that way you would have replaced out by now.

I'm not a quitter, and nope, I'm town. That's hammer though. Pay attention to my three scum reads.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Tywin Lannister
Putting you out of your misery.
You're scum. If you felt that way you would have replaced out by now.

I'm not a quitter, and nope, I'm town. That's hammer though. Pay attention to my three scum reads.

My Newbie with you says otherwise
Luckily you got your cool head together

One game isn't enough to judge someone. Honestly, until I get a game here where I'm scum, nobody should assume to know my scum play. I haven't had enough completed games to even do a legitimate meta (if you believe in that, which I don't), and without a sample size that includes a completed scum game, I don't think you should use past games as any indication. If I flipped scum in this one, perhaps you'd be right, but I won't.

Plus, think critically here. Who would've been my teammates? Nobody that has defended me is alive. Think about why. Nobody is left that would try to stop my wagon. All who did flipped town. Think about it for future games. Scum play as a team. Only townies get this railroaded this frequently as I have this game. Honestly, all it takes is some critical thinking to see I don't have teammates on my side, so I'm clearly not scum (or a Mason for that matter). Just saying

[Tywin Lannister]

Or you can try to wagon me today even, you're just as safe as Titus is until we think all the scum are dead, no need for you to be worried about going against her during the day as long as you don't start NKing the wrong people

Gamma is a better bet than you are.

[Tywin Lannister]

Kyouko, why have you ignored players like Gamma and defended obvious scum lurkers like Nos this entire game? Why go after Sonia when there are lurkers and useless players like gamma/pine playing? Why ignore those slots? Do you TR them? Just like nos?

Also, Don't down Alisae's judgement when she took out the only legitimate scum slot this game. You certainly didn't. The traitor slot isn't real scum in the same way as nos, and scum NK'd him.

Sonia was probably supposed to be implicated in the Cloud NK by scum. That was their plan I bet. Interesting how Kyouko brings her up again now that I'm hammered and old news. Cloud's NK implication didn't work due to him being the traitor, but scum didn't know that when they made the kill.

Don't sleep on Kyouko people. Gamma should go first though. I'm okay with either getting vig shot tonight though. Kyouko wanted desperately to find the traitor crumbs, not because he is town, but because his scum team wanted to avoid the NK there. That's why cloud wrote that post to Kyouko stating 'traitor will go to great lengths to crumb it to the scum team.' That was directed to Kyouko for a reason.

Kill him tonight if not gamma Alisae. Good luck!

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: SSBM_Kyouko

I really need to hear from Syr's replacement.
Until then, I'm not lynching Tywin.
I'm dead set on this.

I'm 90% sure you already hammered me.

If not though:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: kyouko

I still say gamma is a better bet, and I also would like to lynch pine, but in the off chance I'm not already hammered, I'm more than okay with Kyouko here. Those three are my only real suspects. AJ used to be, but I TR him now. Nero is null. I don't really see him as scum, but I can see the possibility. Elibrin is someone I'd like to be scum, but I don't think he is. Titus is the same in that regard. Personal bias makes me want them to be the bad guys, but I don't see it. I know they vote me for the same reason. They want me to be the bad guy, rather then actually believing in it. Titus just has me as a policy lynch right now, not a real scum read IMO.

Oh well. I guess it's better to not vote myself. Going against win con is always stupid and bad play, but it's frustrating as hell to be railroaded by town. It would be more understandable if they were scum slots doing it (rather than just voting me without reason).

I still want gamma first though. He's obvious scum in my not so humble opinion. I was right about Moz. Can't I be right about gamma? Id like to think so.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin, why haven't you given me your vote?

You mean like that? Or are you saying why haven't I voted you? Cuz why would I vote a strong TR? Even yesterday, I viewed you as possible SK, not scum. Even if you are the SK, you've done more for town than town have, so I wouldn't lynch you even if you said you're NKing me (like yesterday).

[Tywin Lannister]

scumteam are likely to kill gerry/titus tonight imo. Gerry because mason and Titus because she's the one guiding your shots. They would rather you be shooting for yourself because frankly Titus has better judgment than you and they need you to kill town to swing the game back in their favor

pedit: Gamma as a shot or as a wagon?

Gamma as either. I don't TR you, but I'm more sure about Gamma.

[Tywin Lannister]

nah it's 6 to hammer Tywin, you're alive.
And like you did. Voting Kyouko. Not voting me. Voting me is stupid and sorta what got Nos shot.

Then I'm glad he voted you LOL. Idk why his team didn't tell him to stop though. Nobody thought you were scum. The talk was SK, not scum, and SK wasn't a good lynch even if you had admitted it. I lean vigi for you at this point. If you were the SK, I see no reason for you to not have shot me regardless of what you viewed my alignment to be. Town wanted me shot, so you'd have earned cred for it as SK. Shooting Nos pisses off scum and doesn't please town in the same way shooting me would have. I think that more or less locks you into the Vigi slot.

And regardless, you can still shoot me tonight if you want. I don't think it's Lylo if I die, and I am pretty confident that the scum slots are between Gamma, kyouko, pine, and to a lesser extent, Nero. I'm 100% positive there is at least one scum between gamma, pine, Kyouko though. The only reservation I have is Kyouko seems more town than gamma at least, but the cloud exchange with Kyouko, plus Kyouko consistently asking Lapsa and others about the traitor is damning evidence imo. I also disliked Kyouko going off on his tangent yesterday about you being SK and giving idiotic theories due to it rather than looking for scum. Even if you are SK, you're not a good lynch at that point (or now, or the future either really), so why he ignored scum slots and focused on the SK talk didn't sit well with me.

[Tywin Lannister]

So I just realized what role Nos was. I never actually looked at the role, just saw the red. I was at work on a short break though.

What's a motion detector do? Is that like a scum watcher? I've never heard of the role.

[Tywin Lannister]

Cop, vigilante, Masons. 1-shot gunsmith.. Hmm... There may be a doctor there too, considering scum had a loved traitor and now a motion detector, which is a variance of watcher/tracker from what I can tell. With Lapsa and me being VT (not that I expect anyone to believe me until I flip), Titus cleared by Cabd, vigilante pretty much confirmed to be Alisae, and Mason most likely Syryana's replacement due to nobody defending Moz... A doc should help in Lylo if mass claim is needed.

Looking past all the confirmed/most likely confirmed players, the pool is this:

Me, Nero, Sonia, elibirn, kyouko, gamma, pine, AJ.

So basically confirmed players, unless Gerryoat confirms he isn't the other Mason is Alisae/Titus/gerryoats

With one 'real' scum and one traitor down, I'd say we have 2-3 more scum. 4 scum + 1 traitor seems to be overkill, so I'd call that the max. Most likely it's 3 scum + 1 traitor.

With traitor and Nos gone, 2 scum mean Lylo isn't until 5 players total left (assuming no scum lynch). If 3 scum, Lylo is 7 players. With 11 currently, town has at least two mislynches before Lylo I believe, assuming all NKs go off and town are lynched each day. Town may have three mislynches left if only two scum.

So regardless, lynching me today shouldn't hurt much, and assuming Alisae continues to get her kills off, town should be fine.

And since there are 3 confirmed, the scum pool of 2-3 players are within 8 slots. By process of elimination, we can go from towniest to scummiest and will most likely hit someone between a lynch/NK assuming things aren't completely out of hand with bad wagons. So my doom and gloom mindset isn't totally warranted I guess.

So 8 slots to find 2-3 scum. I know I'm not scum, and those who are town know they arent. That makes it 7 slots for 2-3 scum for each individual townie to sort. Based on reads, those are good odds. So if we take those 7 slots and do VCA on everyone, plus maybe ISO top suspects... That shouldn't be difficult. The real question is who will be around if it comes to Lylo? I DONT want to be around, because I'll be mislynched and game will be over. Due to that, I'd rather get lynched or NK'd before Lylo. I don't want to be the one who gets mislynched on Lylo.

Anyways, after looking at everyone, kyouko, gamma, pine are most suspect IMO, I've said this plenty before, but it's worth mentioning again.

Alisae, you 'should' be able to get off at least one more NK tonight, even if scum target you. You'll trade kills and that will be that, unless they have a roleblocker. If they did, they probably would've blocked you last night. Due to that, you may be the NK, but you'll have one more kill at least. I hope you use it either on me (just to remove mislynch opportunity and focuses the game back to real scum), or shoot gamma. Regardless, town can afford it, and less suspicious slots means a better chance to hit scum during the day.

For that reason, I think I have to advocate you NKing me. If I assume correctly that I will continue to be a mislynch target everyday, then me getting to Lylo would be disastrous for town. I really shouldn't be in Lylo, and I can't see scum NKing me due to the easy mislynch opportunity they get daily. I honestly want gamma killed, but if not him, removing me is probably a net positive for town. My flip removed a distraction and easy wagon from the game, and again... I can't make Lylo based on how this game has played out. All scum will need to do is keep Titus and Elibrin around, and I'd get their votes everyday from here on out. I think it would lose the game in Lylo.

But if you want to hit scum, gamma is my top pick. ISO and VCA him and tell me he looks town. I bet you can't.

[Tywin Lannister]

LUV, Sonia, Aj, Kyouko, Gerry, CK was your wagon. Gonna say if you flip town it means one or both of Sonia/Aj are scum

We've already had two town flips from wagons. Why haven't you looked for scum there? What does a third wagon show that the first two didn't?

[Tywin Lannister]

Because right now what I'm seeing is baffling nonsense, and you trying to float me as scum not because of any actual reason, but to fit your theory.

How exactly is this different than your vote on me, or your past vote on Mozamis?

I guess you only dislike it when it goes against you... Go figure.

[Tywin Lannister]

Or it's a bunch of WIFOM.

Alisae I swear to God if you don't stop responding to every attempt at logical discourse with "wifom" I'm going to shove a wine bottle up your ass

" 2 + 2 is 4"

"Yeah but wifom"

This is WIFOM. Would you shove the bottle up her ass, or would you shove it up your own ass? Knowing full well that Alisae wouldn't like the bottle in her ass, you'd shove it up your own, due to fully enjoying said bottle. But wait! Alisae knows you'd shove it up your ass, so she'd pretend to not like the bottle, knowing your ass is glass, but then you'd know that as well, so you'd shove it up hers, but then maybe she didn't like it still and you'd know this, so shove it up yours.

[Tywin Lannister]

My theory of Elbrin Tywin AJ Nero feels good, but it's probably wrong

Well, I know it's wrong with me in there. I also think it's wrong since you have 4 scum there. Scum already lost Nos, and cloud was a traitor. Do you honestly believe there are 6 scum in this game? I certainly don't. The town roles we know about aren't powerful enough to offset a 5 scum team + 1 traitor game. We'd need a far larger game than this if that was the case.

[Tywin Lannister]

Mother fucka if I gave reads yall ignore them

I wasn't on the 2 lynches on town
I was on the scum counter wagon
I wasn't the one who lynched the mason

Kiss my ass.

This is good enough to place Sonia into a town slot. Kyouko trying to frame her as being scum is ridiculous based on her VCA IMO. At the very least, there are better candidates than Sonia to be scum. Why hasn't gamma been lynched or grilled yet by anyone? Doesn't that strike you as odd? It's as odd as nos being ignored by scum and Kyouko calling him town for it. Again, Why has gamma not been called out by anyone? My guess is because his scum team obviously won't do it, and they will lead other wagons over him. I scum read gamma every game though, so I could be wrong. His play never strikes me as town though, and I think that's a problem. He certainly hasn't helped town scum hunt at any point this entire game. An ISO will prove that.

So again, why has everyone ignored gamma? Shouldn't he at least be sorted to make sure he's town? I can't think of a single player outside of myself who has really questioned gamma's alignment this entire game, and almost every other player has at least been called into question. Nobody has for gamma (aside from me), and I think that's a huge red flag.

[Tywin Lannister]

pine is prob just bad town for that vote

Why is he just bad town instead of scum? Any townie with half a brain cell knows Alisae scum and not the correct lynch, even if they somehow believed she was the SK still. She's obviously not scum. She NK'd the only caught scum this game (not including the traitor who scum NKed themselves). So why is pine let off the hook here? You know who the last player was that voted Alisae over looking for real scum? Nos. Do you remember what he flipped?

[Tywin Lannister]

EBWOP: Alisae isn't* scum

[Tywin Lannister]

Pine, I am not lynching Alisae if she shoots scum the night before. You would be wise to adopt this.

UNVOTE:

I trust Titus. I may be overreacting, but I've been fooled by Vig/SKs before. Alisae intimidating people away from questioning her is extremely sketchy, but it can wait until we've eliminated more of the scumteam.

Vote will go back on Tywin when we've heard more from the people who've been absent.

This guy is fucking scum lol. This shit is completely contrived. Please tell me I'm not the only one that sees it. Pine is obvious scum. He also won't even look at Kyouko, making Kyouko probable scum as well.

I've said it for two days now and will repeat it: scum reads are Gamma, Pine, and Kyouko.

This game really isn't that difficult people.

[Tywin Lannister]

I already pointed out that I don't have to live for town to win. I just hope town lynches gamma/pine/Kyouko after I'm gone, because aside from Kyouko, nobody seems to focus their attention on gamma/pine. That scares me at least, because in my biased opinion, they're the most obvious scum in this game. They won't even touch each other all game long. They won't mention each other, won't question them, SR them, or even TR them. They ignore each other like the plague. ISO them and find out for yourselves. Prove me wrong. Nos voting Alisae yesterday was a bad joke. Pine voting Alisae today is absolutely ridiculous play. Only scum look for an SK lynch over scum hunting. His post is SO obvious that I have to believe others have seen it. Titus coaching Pine over scum reading him is bad for town. Gerryoats calling Pine bad town over scum reading him is bad for town. You couldn't make this crap up if you tried. The guy is obvious scum here.

So again, if you're dead set on lynching me, fine. Town can handle the loss of a VT, but PLEASE look to kill Pine/Gamma/Kyouko after. It's so obvious to me. Why isn't it for others? I'm not sure what the hangup for everyone else is on voting scum. Stop calling them bad town and just admit they're likely scum already. Your reads in the past have all been wrong. Please listen to another opinion for once.

And Alisae, this isn't directed towards you. I know you pay attention. Nos is dead due to that. I'm speaking more to the other townies like Titus, Elibrin, etc.

[Tywin Lannister]

What about Gamma and Pine?

Pine is still town regardless of his little issue earlier. Gamma's been inactive site-wide so it's hard to keep a read on him.

Ok but WHY is pine town? You can't call him town and ignore his clear anti-town play and not give reasons for the TR. He looks like clear scum to me. I don't understand why you'd not SR him as well, or at least be suspicious of him. What post or vote or absolutely anything this entire game makes you believe Pine is town? Please give reasons. At least you did so for SRing me, which I appreciate. You gave reasons. Please don't ignore players and evidence against them in this game simply due to gut reads. If there is evidence that Pine is possible scum, why would you ignore that?

[Tywin Lannister]

Again, Pines vote on Alisae today is a scum tell. Nos did the exact same thing yesterday. Pine only unvoted when he got coached up by Titus to switch, and he gave an extremely contrived excuse for it. He absolutely ignores anything dealing with the other wagon in Kyouko and states he will jump his vote back on me. The fact that he won't even mention kyouko's name all game, plus Kyou never mentioning Pine.. That's also a scum tell. Scum avoid each other like the plague in-thread for a reason. Don't tell me you haven't noticed this pattern.

Gamma, Pine, and Kyouko have largely ignored each other to the point where it's ridiculous to assume they're all town, and their play lends itself to scum play styles. In my view, it's obvious. I don't understand how you could get a null read on gamma and still ignore him. I don't understand how you can TR pine after 110+ pages on Day 3. Some things just do not make sense here. Are you purposely ignoring those players? Do you honestly think scum don't lurk and contribute nothing like gamma/pine have? Nos did it ALL GAME. You have an example already. So why ignore the others? Do you truly believe all scum play like me? If so, I'd question your mafia experience. Scum always lurk and/or stay null. At best, only one or two scum are out in the open in every game.

[Tywin Lannister]

At the least, I just want town to pay attention to players like gamma/pine. There is definitely something off with them. They are null at best, not town. Nothing about their past votes, posts, or opinions have been super town, and in most cases, they've proven to be anti-town. Please stop ignoring players in the game and pay attention. Active, talkative people aren't the only ones in this game, and Nos proved the age old theory that scum like to lurk and contribute as little as possible. They never move games forward, and you cannot honestly say pine or gamma have even once progressed the game state in a positive way for town.

Just be aware, that's all I ask.

[Tywin Lannister]

Alisae, I think you're going to be the next NK tonight. I don't see how scum leave you after you took out nos. That shot confirmed you aren't scum, and the best they can do now is discredit you as the SK, which I don't believe is the case anymore. If there's a doctor, then I hope they protect you, but I'm not confident in there being one. If so, they've probably protected Titus all game. I just don't really think there is one though. So I think you have one shot left. Unless there's a Mafia doc, i assume you'll hit. A roleblocker would've probably been on you already if they had one.

We will see what happens, but I'm definitely okay with a pine vote. I don't know if anyone else will join though. Obv town have called pine 'bad town' instead of possible scum too many times for me to have a lot of confidence in a wagon there, but I'll join it when I get home from work.

[Tywin Lannister]

Sonia, tell me why I should townread you.

She voted nos and hasn't been on any town lynches. That seems pretty obv town to me, but I'll let her speak.

[Tywin Lannister]

Me being NK'd also kinda confirms my scumreads being Pine, Kyouko, and Gamma.
I just hope you can do the rest. I'm not gonna die without taking 2-3 scum with me.

Haha, I'm pretty positive I'll be mislynched before those three, so I don't think it's up to me. All town sees me as scummy at best, confirmed scum at worst. I think someone like Sonia will need to take the lead later. Titus may come around after I flip town, so there's that too.

[Tywin Lannister]

Will get to you about Sonia when I get home Nero, but Tywin you should iso me, I know I haven't interacted much with gamma but I SRed mozamis on the basis she was preferentially treating Pine for lurking compared to other lurkers. I was thinking scum!Moz meant scum!Pine but I was wrong there

Wall post is for Kyouko for those of you who are allergic to reading:

I will do it when I have time. It's been/going to be a long week for me due to end of the year stuff at work. I think I'll be working around 72 hours this week and then I'm moving to a new apt at the end of January, so my time is somewhat limited atm to put it lightly. I'll still try though. I honesty find you to be the least scummy of the three I've SR pretty consistently, although you do have the most 'evidence' against you. Still, your play has been active enough to make me think you may not be scum, and in that case, I do need to rethink things a bit. You just don't 'feel' as scummy as pine/gamma do, which is why I told Alisae I'd be moving my vote to pine with her after I got home from work. I'm home now, so I'll do what I said. Also, I think gamma may be a better target for Alisae than you, but I can't say I'd not agree with either. I know her and Sonia don't feel you are town, and regardless of how you feel less scummy to me than pine/gamma, you do still give me spidey sense pings.

So anyways, I'll ISO you soon and reevaluate things. Pine does look like the better lynch to me, and I've been 'pining' after his lynch since the beginning of day 2. There's no reason for me to not vote there when Alisae already has. All I ask of you is that if you are town, at least ISO gamma/pine when you have time and give thoughts. If I'm wrong about you being scum, then I'll admit it, but I still think you are for the time being. My opinion probably doesn't matter much though.

Anyway:VOTE: Pine

[Tywin Lannister]

That read list by gamma is really bad lol. Idc if he calls me scum, since that seems to be common with everyone in the game besides
Alisae (funny how nobody looks at that and wonders why scum would also call me scum if I was on their team), but him putting Sonia there is just bad. Her point about voting Nos and never being on a townie wagon was a very good one. Nos' wagon was counter to towns, and scum didn't need to go there. There was no reason to buss Nos on D1, so I think that makes Sonia pretty obvious town.

I like this though. Gamma's reads pretty much solidify my thoughts on him being scum. Scum this game keep trying to go after either easy lynchbait (me) or discredit obvious town like Alisae. Sonia is also pretty high on the TRs for anyone that actually looks at it from a town point of view, so when Kyouko and Gamma go after her, it also shows their connection. Pine going after Alisae, which Nos also did, shows their connection. I think scum have made the mistake here of continuing to go after the easy town lynchbait rather than ever reevaluating the game after things like Nos' flip. Any smart town would see the Nos flip and know who to peg as town due to that, so going after Sonia and Alisae just seems like bad reaching. They also obviously won't call each other scum, so it just proves my point I think.

I'm happy with my reads.

[Tywin Lannister]

I also see a Gamma, Titus, Pine scumteam being a thing if Elbrin is right about his shit.
Think about it. Titus never agreed to the early wagon D1 but goes on it anyways becuase most of her townreads were on it. Sheep and a shitty attmempt at a bus.
Titus also refuses to think that Pine is scum.
But if this is true, then how Titus was cleared by a gunsmith is wierd unless the following is true: Cabd lied about clearing Titus.

If Cabd didn't post that he investigated Titus and didn't find a gun, id agree with everything you just said. She's pinged my radar hard all game long, but the fact that Cabd didn't find anything on her makes the whole thing moot I think. Unless there is a loophole where scum this game don't all need to have a gun, then she can't be scum. If there was a loophole where she is scum with a knife or something over a gun, then it kind of eliminates the entire point of a gunsmith. I can't really see how that's possible, so I have to believe she's town even though it goes against my gut. If she does turn out to be scum post-game, then I'll be pissed lol. I just don't see it though. We can't gamble on some weird loophole working against a gunsmith here. The only killing role that 'should' be able to escape a positive investigation from a gunsmith is an SK (possibly killing with knives instead of gun), but even that isn't normal. I know Titus isn't the SK, so she has to be town.

[Tywin Lannister]

And if Cabd lied for some completely unknown, irrational reason, then we could blame him post-game, but there's literally no reason for him to have role claimed with a lie there. He got himself NK'd due to his claim, so I'm pretty positive he was telling the truth. If not, then town will lose due to his investigation. I just don't believe he'd lie for absolutely no reason.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

He's scum for other reasons, but the most recent one was his vote on Alisae earlier today. Alisae is all but confirmed to not be scum after the Nos NK. Voting Alisae is so anti-town that there's no excuse for it. He also has ignored kyouko's wagon entirely (not even acknowledging its existence at the time), which makes me think they're a team. Do you know who also voted Alisae claiming she was the SK over actually trying to vote scum? Nos.

Since you aren't convinced about Pine, then give your reasons for TRing him. I'm curious to see why anyone would. At best, he should be a null read based on his content and votes (always on town). He pushes for town wagons and then when we get a scum flip due to Alisae's NK, he pushes for her lynch. Damning IMO

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

And the other posts where I quoted some of Pine's other posts including his link to Kyouko and my discussion with him about the traitor crumb?

Also it's not the doublevote itself, it's the tone that striked me as frustrated scum.

I'm p sure I saw the traitorcrumbdiscussion bit? That was the "pine discredited me" part I mentioned. I wasn't really sold.

His double vote didn't strike me as fake. I mean I get the tone reading bit, I myself play largely by sense of smell, but I didn't see it there. It seemed a natural reaction? He thinks tywin is obvscum. He wants tywin dead like yesterday.

Everyone in the game thinks I'm obv scum and want me lynched. The problem here is that unless you believe I'm the only scum, and Nos was my partner, then you'd have to question why scum would want to bus me so hard the entire game. The only players who have ever defended me have been proven town. I think scum are ignoring these obvious points to push for the lynchbait target. They obviously know I'd be the easiest wagon to push through, and their only other option is to vote their scum buddy. There's a reason gamma/pine vote me all game long (except when they're lynching other town D1 & D2.

The reason I'm not fully convinced of Kyouko being scum compared to Pine/Gamma is that he didn't allow me to hammer myself. Scum would have no reason to derail a wagon where town lynch themselves in frustration. It would be a long con move for him to derail it there by him assuming id be the easy lynch another day and gaining town cred for derailing the hammer today. I just don't fully believe Kyouko would be that aware, and even if he is, Pine/Gamma are both good lynches that don't have anything doubtful about them in the way kyouko's did.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm not sold on Kyouko as stated above. My pre-flip associations aren't set in stone, and I reevaluated kyouko's slot after thinking about it. While I still lean scum for him, it isn't nearly as much as before. Some things just don't add up for a scum Kyouko. In that case, and assuming there are 3 scum left (at most IMO, so could be two), I'd add Nero/AJ as the possible third. Either way, I SR pine and gamma pretty hard. Kyouko I can at least see reasons for being town. I can't get over the Alisae vote today from Pine though, and gamma remains his usual self, so I won't be changing my opinion on him.

Anyway, I think everyone has read my thoughts on those few players. Whatever the lynch is today, people know my reads and the reasons for them. That's all I can do. Everyone else has to make up their own minds.

[Tywin Lannister]

Lol! Elibrin is now dealing with the same level of frustration I had. Looks like it isn't only me. It pisses you off when someone refuses to engage or listen to you in a game about engagement and listening.

Kyouko is still going after the 'easy' lynch in me. He never even once took a look at gamma or Pine. I think that confirms he is scum with them too. There's no reason for him to not have looked there at all. Even if he wanted me lynched, he would acknowledge the other players. Instead, he goes off on a tangent saying I didn't hammer myself, which is useless and completely nonsensical. Who cares? You stopped me from doing it. That's WHY I town read you, but you haven't discussed ANYTHING else, so why did you stop it? What discussion did you partake in that was different from 'let's lynch Tywin, he's scum for no reason at all, and every player in the game wants to lynch him, so with 4 scum exactly, that means Tywin is the last two scum slots. Only Tywin. Tywin is two scum at once.'

[Tywin Lannister]

The fact that scum have all wanted to lynch me from day 1 should be obvious to everyone, but it isn't for some reason. Only town have ever defended me, and they're all dead. Scum killed them. So who exactly do you people think my partner(s) are? Nos wanted me lynched, but whatever, I'm talking about current scum players. Who are they? Why have they wanted to lynch me so badly all game?

Try using your damn brains for once. Even if I was scum, which I'm not, there'd be more scum than me. Figure that out and figure out WHO or WHY without using pre-flip associations that will be wrong after I flip town. The fact is, you've all used those pre flip associations twice now, and both times, you've fucking looked like shit players for it, since none of you had any idea who else to go after due to never even once scum hunting without pre flips.

[Tywin Lannister]

Gamma, pine, and Kyouko are scum. Kyouko is the only iffy one there.

Read this and weep post game. I want apologies from players like Titus after the game.

[Tywin Lannister]

Actually, I'm being retarded.
VOTE: SSBM_Kyouko
Hey Titus, you can't lynch me if I'm getting the NK now can you?

BTW Tywin. You're a smart person. I think you know what's happening if this flips town, don't you?

What do you mean?

[Tywin Lannister]

Actually, I'm being retarded.
VOTE: SSBM_Kyouko
Hey Titus, you can't lynch me if I'm getting the NK now can you?

BTW Tywin. You're a smart person. I think you know what's happening if this flips town, don't you?

What do you mean?

EBWOP: oh, like I'm the next lynch? That's inevitable regardless.

[Tywin Lannister]

Question: was Tywin calling Titus possible scum or not earlier this game day?
@Ali: I don't really count that tbh.

Yes, but recanted when told of Cabd flip. Yet he was aware of Nos flip.

tbh, Tywin feels like scum being coached.

Explain, and why would I be coached in-thread if I was scum? How dumb are you? My scum buddies would coach in the scum thread. There is confirmed day talk, so I think you're badly reaching with nothing to grasp on to. It's kind of pathetic really.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm joining this Kyouko train. I like how gamma won't mention him btw. Neither will Kyouko mention gamma. Both keep going after me, but isn't it obvious that IF I was scum, I couldn't be the only one? Why haven't those players looked at anyone else besides me? Pine too... None of those three will even look at anyone but me, and IMO, that reveals a lot. They don't know who else to go after, because nobody else has been called scum by town. Due to that, they just continue shading me while not contributing whatsoever. After my flip, I feel like the game will be solved. Even Titus won't be able to ignore these guys after I flip.

VOTE: Kyouko

[Tywin Lannister]

Question: was Tywin calling Titus possible scum or not earlier this game day?
@Ali: I don't really count that tbh.

Yes, but recanted when told of Cabd flip. Yet he was aware of Nos flip.

tbh, Tywin feels like scum being coached.

Explain, and why would I be coached in-thread if I was scum? How dumb are you? My scum buddies would coach in the scum thread. There is confirmed day talk, so I think you're badly reaching with nothing to grasp on to. It's kind of pathetic really.

Location is irrelevant. You are being coached.

I question your knowledge of Mafia in general after comments like this. Either you're just so new to the game that i should consider these revelations of yours to just be ignorance, or I have to consider you scum for reaching so badly here that it's ridiculous.

Location matters completely. What makes you think it's irrelevant? That's an idiotic statement to say the least. It really is stupid.

Also, you keep ignoring my question. Explain what is there that is coaching me. I don't see anything at all that makes your statement even true in a hypothetical basis. There's nothing there, so why say this statement? What am I being coached on?

Again, it's so big of an illogical reach that either I consider you newbtown or I consider you scum. There isn't any other explanation for saying what you have. It was shade throwing without any logic or substance behind it whatsoever.

Also, please weigh in on Kyouko. Please weigh in on Pine. Please weigh in on any player in the game besides me. Even if you truly believed I was scum (which I don't believe at all, since you're scum), you have tunneled on me for three game days now. I couldn't be the only scum, so why aren't you sorting anyone else? What possible town reason could you have for ignoring the entire rest of the game, and also specifically ignoring any mentioning of players named Kyouko and Pine?

This game is too easy when scum are this bad.

[Tywin Lannister]

Kyouko:

If you aren't scum, then who do you think the last remaining scum players are? I take it that you view me as one of them, but even you admitted there are probably 4. That being said, whose the other player you SR? If I flipped town, who would be your third SR?

Gamma: same question

Pine: same question

[Tywin Lannister]

Dear Town:
I am very most likely to die tonight. So in the event that I die, pleaes do the following depending on Flip
A Kyouko scum flip: Gamma or Pine will be dieing tonight. If so, please lynch the other one. If they are somehow alive, lynch them both.
A Kyouko town flip: Sheep Titus and/or Sonia and Nero or Tywin will die tonight.

With Love, Alisae.

I'm more than okay with this.

Doubt gamma is tho lols

[Tywin Lannister]

Yeah okay, Alisae is basically saying that she's going to shoot anyone who is cautious about whether she's an SK or Vig. That means she ain't leashed at all. She'll go through the Town as she wants, until she gets rid of anyone who's a threat...to her.

We can lynch Tywin whenever we want. I'd like to shake this tree while we still have people with brains to do the shaking.

VOTE: Alisae

Okay this might be scum

NOW you see it? lol

I'm guessing gamma knows Kyouko will flip scum and is trying to avoid the NK from Alisae.

Alisae MVP

[Tywin Lannister]

This is the best day ever. All three of my SRs have had wagons today.

I think everyone can agree that gamma is scummy af. Kyouko was always the iffy one IMO out of pine/gamma/Kyouko. Gamma always seemed to be the obvious one.

If we are going there, I'm joining along. This gives me lots of hope in town that gamma is finally getting noticed. It's the best news I've seen since Nos got NK'd. Pine's post crying about Alisae being a vig was great too. Even gamma had no choice but to call it scummy. I feel like things have been solved here. It's also funny that everyone who goes against Alisae has more or less outed themselves as scum and gets wagoned for it. I think that will go down as the game loser for scum. Whoever decided that scum should shade Alisae really miscalculated.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Tywin Lannister]

I don't think I'm arguing that
I'm saying Tywin is scum
I'm saying ssbm is town based on that
unless you refer to something else

You've said this for three days, but won't ever try to find any other scum, which IMO shows more than enough. You obviously don't know any other town you can shade and get an easy lynch from. You've focuses only on me the entire game and have ignored everyone else, although you convienently end up on every town wagon just the same. Funny how that's worked out.

If I was scum, then me never being on a single town lynch would look awfully bad for townies like you, who lynched town without reason. Your reads have all been wrong, so the fact that you've focused your entire attention all game on me would probably make you at least question if you were right/wrong at some point. I know that I reevaluate my reads all the time when warranted, and in games where I've lynched multiple townies, I reevaluate my entire approach. You haven't done it once, and I believe you've just continued
with the mindset you have due to scum telling you 'Tywin is the easiest town to lynch, so keep going after him' in your maf chat. You also have shaded Sonia and Nero, whom I suspect are the other 'easier' lynches here. After all the shade you've thrown at me and a select few other players, not even once have you engaged these players or tried to sort them. Everything you post is shade throwing without any substance or proof backing it up. You misrep consistently, and even if you were town and believed those statements, never asking questions or trying to find the truth is absolutely a scum tell. Pine has done the same things really, but at least you've finally admitted that he is possible scum after his 'crying about Alisae shooting scum' post. I think you recognize that if Kyouko gets lynched, you or pine are Alisae's targets, so you chose to throw shade at Pine in hopes it gives you Town Cred.

Anyway, I'm glad to see any of you go, but I'll even say this: if you flip town, Alisae should shoot me. If you were town and believed truly that I was scum, you'd take this trade in a heartbeat. In my position, I truly believe you, Pine, and probably Kyouko are scum, so I'll gladly take the trade 1 for 1. Pine crying about her 'not being on a leash' after NKing scum last night was probably the biggest scum tell in the game, since he clearly doesn't want to trade. There are just some inherently town thought-processes that aren't fakeable as scum, and Alisae being the X-factor has exposed it IMO.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Tywin remember that one time I made you super frustrated really easily? Good times.

Lol isn't it obvious that I get super frustrated regardless? But yes, if/when town wins, you'd be hands down the MVP with your carry. I knew you were good at this.

[Tywin Lannister]

If I was scum, then me never being on a single town lynch would look awfully bad for townies like you, who lynched town without reason. Your reads have all been wrong, so the fact that you've focused your entire attention all game on me would probably make you at least question if you were right/wrong at some point. I know that I reevaluate my reads all the time when warranted, and in games where I've lynched multiple townies, I reevaluate my entire approach. You haven't done it once, and I believe you've just continued

To be fair, right now you're discribing Titus.

That point hasn't been lost on me, but she's frustrated the hell out of me since D1. Since she is most likely confirmed town, I just ignore her at this point and accept that her vote will always land on me. It is what it is. Gamma is def scum though. Titus' play is just so odd to me that i think it's just how she is. I scum read her all the way up until Cabd confirmed her, so it isn't like i didn't apply this to her. Even Elibrin scum reads her for it now, which I think shows it isn't just me whose been frustrated by her this game. I really want to see what she flips after the game. Honestly, I'd say she was the traitor is Cloud didn't already flip it, since I don't think there are two traitors in games. Shes clearly not full-blown scum due to no gun, but her play just doesn't make sense to me. I'm rambling/repeating myself at this point, but I really want to see her flip post-game and ask what was up, because I don't think her meta is this bad in other games. Maybe I just pissed her off enough D1 that she's been in YOLO/F It mode ever since.

[Tywin Lannister]

Elibrin, I like that you're reevaluating everything, and I'm pretty positive you're town, so 'if' you have the time, any updated thoughts would be welcome.

I still believe at least 1-2 scum are within the gamma/pine/Kyouko bloc. I'm almost sure of it, to the point where I think I'd be willing to bet the game on it. I'm pretty sure it's already been established that if even one of them flip town, I'm the next NK target by Alisae. So I'm putting my money where my mouth is more or less by advocating those three.

Yes, the lynches have swung between these three (mainly due to Alisae leading the charge), but I'm confident in voting any of them. All three are my top SRs. I can't throw Titus in there (as much as it goes against my gut read, I can't deny the Cabd investigation), and Nero is the only slot I'm more or less null on. I don't believe Sonia is scum, and I know Alisae isn't scum. Due to me knowing my own alignment, I know I'm scum. AJ used to be a scum read on D1, but I've largely moved him to town due to this day's posts, all of which I've liked from him. So the only iffy player on these wagons IMO is Nero, but I don't SR him like I do the three I've mentioned for the past two day phases.

Did you not scum read Pine for his post crying about Alisae NKing scum and her 'not being leashed'. I thought that was a huge scum tell. Gamma also strikes me as pretty sure scum, so I'm more than okay with lynching him. I've said it a lot, but Kyouko seems to me to be the only questionable lynch of those three. I still SR him though.

I just think we need to lynch gamma or pine and if it fails, go ahead and NK me. It's a win-win IMO.

[Tywin Lannister]

Haha EBWOP: Due to knowing my own alignment, I know I'm not* scum. Haha can't wait for someone to latch on to that typo.

[Tywin Lannister]

Elibrin, I may have embellished the 'crying about NKibg scum' part haha, but that's essentially how I interpreted it.

[Tywin Lannister]

Does gamma give you goodfeels?

[Tywin Lannister]

Kyouko: why do you scum read AJ? He seems to be a weird vote placement. What's the case on him?

[Tywin Lannister]

Pine: what's your case on Nero?

I really like that Kyouko/pine/gamma won't vote each other. It just seems telling to me. Those vote counts are looking good if you ask me. The three scum reads are voting random one-offs or me, but none will join the other's wagons at any point.

[Tywin Lannister]

Haha EBWOP: Due to knowing my own alignment, I know I'm not* scum. Haha can't wait for someone to latch on to that typo.

The only person that latches onto typos in this room is you.

Kyouko did jokingly latch onto it, but my statement was also made in humor. I wasn't being serious.

[Tywin Lannister]

Elibrin, I may have embellished the 'crying about NKibg scum' part haha, but that's essentially how I interpreted it.

Yeah okay, Alisae is basically saying that she's going to shoot anyone who is cautious about whether she's an SK or Vig. That means she ain't leashed at all. She'll go through the Town as she wants, until she gets rid of anyone who's a threat...to her.

We can lynch Tywin whenever we want. I'd like to shake this tree while we still have people with brains to do the shaking.

VOTE: Alisae

Why would you do that tywin, just go on the internet and make up lies

Lies? On the Internet? But.. I was told everything on the intrawebz is true! Mind = blown

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm staying on Gamma's wagon. He's the best lynch today IMO. I wouldn't doubt a Kyouko/Gamma scum team, but I'd rather flip the obvious one first. If gamma flips scum like I strongly suspect he will, then Kyouko is next. I'll switch to Kyouko if i don't have a choice, but then I'd just lynch gamma if Kyouko flips scum, so it really doesn't change much. I do think gamma is the most obvious scum in the game though. Gerry and Sonia should weigh in when they come back. I know Sonia wants Kyouko, but I wanna hear her thoughts on gamma, and Gerry wanted to extend the day for talk, but he's largely been MIA as well.

And...Speak of the devil. Here he is. Gerry, can we lynch gamma and then if he doesn't flip scum, shoot me? Thanks

[Tywin Lannister]

Whoa Kyouko is reevaluating now? This is why I didn't want to lynch him first. Gamma seems like the safe bet. Kyouko may just be town. Idk, but I like that he's looking at other angles finally. That's more than pine/gamma can say, and regardless of me TRing Sonia, she also somewhat fits that bill. Idk if Kyouko is doing this to gain Town Cred knowing gamma will flip scum or if he is actually town, but it's something.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ya know, if you're so sure Tywin is scum, why are you voting Gamma? Tywin's on that lynch, right?

When gamma flips scum, remember who pushed him the entire game when everyone else ignored his slot. Sounds like you want to avoid a gamma flip to me. This makes me happy.

[Tywin Lannister]

Nah since the beginning of Day 3 Elbrin.
And it's mostly because he's trying to direct my shot at him.

It's due to me being so confident that gamma is scum that I'm not worried about it. This BP theory is dumb though. Lynch gamma and see his flip. Otherwise, go ahead and lunch me, but when I flip town, plz shoot gamma already. The guy is obvious and flailing at this point. He'd claim by now if he wasn't scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

Lylo, but whatever. I'm not scum. I don't even care anymore though.

Pine is obviously scum. Idk the other one. AJ probably.

Whatever. What was the mod error? Was I supposed to die instead? Not like it matters, since I'll be lynched today and that will be game. Only town left are Titus, Gerry (whose slot was so bad that they let their Mason partner die), maybe Sonia, and me. Scum have to be Pine and AJ, unless Sonia was bussing Nos D2.

Also, before you bad townies quicklynch me with scum and lose the game, a mass claim is usually a better idea first. Not doing it in Lylo is idiotic. Learn how to play mafia Gerryoats, since your fucking confirmed town. SMH

I realize useless players like Gerry won't care and will lose the game without thought, but Titus/Sonia may want to consider the mass claim first.

Also, have you geniuses ever thought that I was left alive to be the lylo mislynch all game? Kinda obvious, but the wagon restarts every day phase. It's as if none of you know how to use your heads. Pine is obvious scum (I should've gotten him lynched yesterday, but gamma looked worse being so fucking useless), but AJ played a good game. Pine is bad, but he got helped by worse town. Oh well. Good game scum. If pine somehow flipped town, I'd have to concede that town had no chance with players like that doing nothing all game. Not a single worthwhile post has ever been made by Pine all game, so im giving him the benefit of the doubt by saying he's scum.

And
VOTE: AJ

Mass claim or don't, but the loss isn't on me if you quicklynch in Lylo.

[Tywin Lannister]

Forgot about Nero. So it is mylo. Whatever. My vote stays, so do whatever you want. I know nobody will give a case against me, because nobody has given one all game. I also know nobody will ask me a single question, so I'm not gonna be paying attention to this game beyond prod dodging most likely. When all town does is vote without thought or reason, then there's no real point.

And Alisae: I guess I was wrong about gamma. I scum read him in every game it seems, because he's useless in every game he plays. Wish he'd change things up for once. Idk what scum gamma would look like when this is his town play smh. Also, I wish you had shot pine instead of Kyouko. Kyouko was making sense. Pine hasn't done shit all game but vote me and prod dodge.... Not that confirmed town players like Gerry have done anything either so game is a wash.

[Tywin Lannister]

Forgot Elibirn to, so it's not mylo either. Mass claim not needed. Lynch away. Town can afford two more deaths.

Make it quick plz. I'd rather not waste my time in a lost game, since I don't trust the confirmed town players in Lylo, and if players like Pine are town, then the game was screwed from the start.

[Tywin Lannister]

There are 8 players alive, 4 to lynch
We're in lylo if there are 3 living scum

Are there 3 living scum? Does tywin know that there are 3 scum and thus know it's lylo based on post 3983, then back tracks away by claiming to forget about 2 other players? Only time will tell!~☆

4 scum and a traitor seems like overkill to me. I forgot about you and Nero, so I had assumed it was Lylo. You can play as if it's mylo idc, but don't blame me for a quicklynch you didn't even think about first if it is. I warned you all.

[Tywin Lannister]

I lied I haven't gotten to shower yet but I also haven't done shit. In a minute.

Tywin, why do you townread sonia again?

She voted Nero D2 as the counter wagon to obv town maz, when Nero wasn't in a situation that needed bussing by scum. I thought that was obvious? Do you not read the game at all?

Also, don't call my statements AtE. I'm not appealing to anyone. I'm resigned with a town loss, because it doesn't look like the confirmed town ever even try to find scum all game. Without Alisae at least pushing the conversation forward about the less-than-obv town players (nice way of calling gamma/pine useless), I don't think town stands a chance. There's no appeal here. It's just my honest assessment.

If there ARE 5 total scum (4 + traitor) then we lose regardless. I don't see town banding together to lynch scum 3 times in a row. It just isn't happening, so it has to be 2 scum left or there's no point. If there are only 2 left, mislynching me doesn't end the game. Tomorrow will be Lylo, but that's not my problem at that point. Otherwise, I don't see a win path here for town. That's just my honest opinion.

What actually pisses me off though are players that are basically confirmed, like Gerry, naked voting me and not even caring that it is possibly mylo. If it IS mylo, a mass claim is necessary. Never let scum quicklynch in that situation, so him blindly voting me is just bad play. Pine I assume is scum, so idc what he does. His naked vote without reason has been the same since D1, so there's nothing new there.

Anyways, my point is that I don't think it's mylo, since i can't see how the game would've been balanced with 4 scum and 1 traitor. If that is the case, I don't see a town win in any event. It just isn't happening. Pine and company could literally tell everyone 'hey I'm scum!' and half the players would ignore it and vote elsewhere. There's no leadership or even a town bloc for cohesion, so I don't see town having a chance. Aside from that, since I assume there are only two scum left, i don't completely care if I'm lynched. Tomorrow will be Lylo, but at least the easy derp wagon on me can't materialize in Lylo.

It also annoys me that there hasn't been a case on me like... Ever. None of you have ever demanded one, so scum are never held accountable. I have had no real backing all game aside from Alisae yesterday, so my opinion and demand for people to be responsible with their votes always goes unheard. In my biased opinion, that is a very, very damning thing for the confirmed (or pretty damn close to it) town players to not have forced. Even if Titus or Gerry truly believe I'm scum, they should demand a case from others and give a case themselves. I was obviously wrong about gamma and Kyouko, but at least I consistently gave reasons for my belief in SRing them. I've yet to see any reasoning for anyone to SR me past the D1 Titus thing saying I lied (I didn't), so it should be obvious that my wagon is scum driven every single day. At least, I think it's obvious, but whatever anyone believes, more info is ALWAYS good, so without demanding voted to have reasons and accountability, there's absolutely no way town had a chance this game. That reflects on town in a bad way. I hope it's a lesson learned for future games. Some things should always happen in games, and one is to demand reasons/cases for votes outside of RVS.

My $.02

[Tywin Lannister]

EBWOP: typo above. Sonia voted NOS (not Nero). I meant to say Nos.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin your AtE is being laid on far too thiccc. Yes, with 3 c's. I don't even understand what you're upset about. And your attempts to discredit pine as not doing anything make no goddamn sense when he's been contributing quite a bit since shedding his lurker-sack-Ness from day 1. And then I have no idea how you forget several people as being in the game and push that it's lylo and dude you're just what

I've been flip-flopping on your alignment all game but I think these recent posts have solidified me being tired of your shit. Constant, baseless ate, and your jabs at Pine are like scum stubbornly refusing to let go of a mislynch they want. The latter is exactly what I do when I'm scum, and I feel that plenty of scum have done it, you don't have organic read progressions cuz it's all fake so you pick a target and you stick with it and then you don't know when to stop.

Honestly, you shouldn't compare your scum game with mine. I'm town this game, but from my own assessment of my play when I am scum, I'm usually always a strong TR. Playing town is far easier IMO than being real town. You can make plays (knowing alignments) that look completely town to the end, while being real town is a guessing game that inherently makes me cynical. After reading past scum games from myself, im usually pretty optimistic and hopeful (playing it anyways) as scum, and i join town blocs. I even bus a partner or two if they're not playing well enough to survive long. As town, I distrust everyone naturally, and when I'm not a PR, I get mad at those who are and aren't playing their role well.

Not that I expect you to believe me, but that's how I seem to play when I look at my own game. Obviously, I could adjust everything knowing my own meta, but since I haven't had a completed game where I've been scum on this name in MS, I don't really have a meta here. Just go look at my other few competed town games, and you'll probably see a pattern.

[Tywin Lannister]

And idk how my reads aren't organic, but whatever. Sounds like you're just making things up there? I had 3 strong SRs all game, and I've been proven wrong about 2 of them. My few strong TRs have been proven right. In the end, I'm in the same boat as everyone who lynched Lapsa and Mozamis now, although I only lynched one townie (Alisae killed the other, although I wish it had been pine instead).

[Tywin Lannister]

Elibirn, I do want you to ask one thing. If I was scum, and you believe there are 3 left, who are my scum buddies and why do you think that? Regardless of you believing im scum or not, I'd have to have at least one buddy. Maybe two. So who would they be, and have they been bussing me since D1? It's something to think about and analyze.

[Tywin Lannister]

There's a reason why I am asking Nero to pick a side.

Btw, Nero is still my preferred lynch today. I was hard townreading AJ before so I kinda don't want to do that today.

So was I, but I am rethinking things after being wrong about 2 SRs. I'll try to post a case later as to why I voted him, but the gist is he's been opportunistic and has flip flopped reads/wagons based solely on who was more likely to get lynched. I'll have to ISO and look up posts that support me thinking that. I don't strongly SR him though, and Nero is a very good possibility. Now that I'm proven wrong with my theories about gamma/Kyouko (I'm not voting pine solely due to possibly being wrong there too now), I am open to other possibilities. Nero is one of them. My main TRs are Titus, Gerry, and Sonia to a lesser extent. Elibirn is also a TR, but he's a bit iffy if only due to the chance he could be scum playing very well, but I don't rly think that's the case.

So Nero/pine/AJ are really all that's left IMO,

[Tywin Lannister]

Titus still OMGUS scum reading me, Tywin scum reading me after I said I'd be somewhat ok with his lynch. I am shocked.

SHOCKED!

Even I'm somewhat okay with me being lynched, since I don't think it's mylo. I can be lynched I think without losing the game, and I have a bad feeling that I'll be quicklynched in Lylo if not today. I think Gerry would naked vote automatically without a single thought crossing his mind, and then scum can finish the job. I have a feeling that's why he's still alive... Maybe the same goes for Titus. Alisae was too dangerous for scum to leave, since she was becoming town leader (sort of), and she didn't want to lynch me prior to a gamma/Kyouko/pine flip. I think pine would be scum due to that (plus his naked vote on me, while STILL never providing a single reason to SR me). It is what it is though.

As for my read on you, you've been null to me all game (and I stated that D2 onward, D1 I had you as slight town), and the fact of the matter is that you're far less of a TR than the other confirmed, close to confirmed, and seemingly town players I've already listed. That leaves me 3 players, with you being one of them. I didn't know you said you were okay with my lynch, but I now I want to ask you why you SR me. Give a case and take a hard stance somewhere. Don't just say 'I'm okay with lynching Tywin I guess' without giving reasons for it. That's scummy.

[Tywin Lannister]

I ask for the case all game, yet one is never produced. Look how you a kid the question entirely pine by claiming half the game gave one, but never show proof of what doesn't exist. Your statement is a misrepresentation of the truth at best, lying at worst. Provide a case or admit you're scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

What's laughable is you think your sidestep of the question all game somehow works and doesn't show how scummy you are for not being able to answer a simple thing like why you scum read me. Give reasons without avoiding the question. Classic scum post there.

[Tywin Lannister]

You'd think if Pine was town (he isn't) and he had such a great case against me, he'd get sick of me asking for it every day phase and give a post that says

'The reasons I think you're scum are:

A

B

C

D'

Etc. but pine won't do that. Instead, he sidesteps the question entirely all game, and then makes AtE posts saying 'everyone has given a case, so laughable hahahaha.' That's not an answer and is scummy as fuck to post. If he has conviction that I'm scum, SO MUCH so that he literally voted me every day phase and has never scum hunted anyone else even once (ISO him and see how fucking useless he is), he'd have a damn solid case on me and would post it without delay.

The fact that he hasn't and doesn't is enough to say he's scummy. ISO him and tell me why you'd TR that. Uselessness isn't AI, but not answering basic questions, sidestepping any hard stance, and voting town all game long sure is.

Notice the difference between a player like Titus who is town (or even Elibrin), and a player like Pine, who is null at best. Titus gave hard reasons for SRing me. I could answer the charges. Titus interacted with me. Pine has never done so. He hasn't given any real reason to SR me, and if he is sheeping titus' reasoning, then he's probably scum for it. He should have his own solid reasons for SRing me and ONLY me all game. He sure hasn't scum hunted anyone else (except obv town like mozamis). Anyone else see the difference here? ISO him instead of remembering the game wrong and see for yourself.

[Tywin Lannister]

That all being said, I doubt anyone will actually ISO the guy, because players like Elibrin seems to hard TR a guy that has never scum hunted anyone (not even me) and thinks Pine has contributed a ton, although what he's actually contributed is puzzling me. He posts general game status stuff instead of scum hunting. It's the classic scum game, but somehow he gets TR for it. Gamma was my hardest SR for doing the same thing, but apparently that's Gamma's entire play style in a nutshell... So idk what to think of him for future games. Unless this is how Pine plays every game, I continue to SR him. If he's another gamma style player, then I question why these guys choose this play style to begin with. It looks scummy to me, and it isn't pro-town behavior to not look for scum. Don't be just a vote and leave player. Don't play mafia if that's all you're capable of, because you hurt your team for either alignment doing it.

Titus wants Nero to take a stance and I agree. I want pine to do so too, and if his stance continues to be 'Tywin is scum,' then he needs to give clear reasons for it as well as look for scum buddy(s). Even if I had been scum, I'd not be the only one, so never looking outside of voting me shows a clear and decisive unwillingness to help town win. The fact that I'm town just makes it worse, but since that can't be confirmed, I think pine should be placed on notice in the event of Lylo. If he was such a strong Town player, he'd be NK'd by now.

[Tywin Lannister]

Let's also not forget Pines vote and post trying to get Alisae lynched yesterday. I haven't forgotten, and I'll repost it if needed. That was the biggest scum tell in the game IMO, and I said that D3. It's unfortunate that Pine wasn't lynched instead of Gamma, or NK'd instead of Kyouko, but I'm still confident in him being scum. If I'm wrong, then him trying to lynch the vigilante instead of looking for scum was probably the worst play of the game. It was scummy af. I haven't seen anything worse than that all game long. The only reason pine changed his vote back to me was because Titus unknowingly coached him to remove his vote on Alisae.

[Tywin Lannister]

If nobody is going to drop my name even in a hypothetical, then just lynch me. Unless there are 3 scum left, it won't end the game. Pine has me in every scum pool he's ever done. Elibrin just posted his reads are based on my pre-flip associations. Titus wants me lynched because counter wagons weren't scum (really Titus? Should scum have voted themselves? You were pushing all those wagons except for gamma's).

So honestly? I think my lynch is necessary for town to get their shit together, because without me flipping green (which you'll look back on and say 'fuck me I'm an idiot for never looking for scum outside of obvious town'), none of the real townies in this game will ever look for actual scum. I truly believe I need to be mislynched for town to have even a 1% chance to win. I honestly don't believe town stands a chance, but I think it stands a better one without me there to gain auto-votes. Just please learn from your inherent conf biases and terrible pre-flip associations after i flip town. Do me that favor at least... Get better by learning from where you went wrong. That's all I've been asking, since this railroad of me since D1, yet no mercy hammer, has made this entire game super annoying to play in.

Also, AJ is scum. Maybe Nero is his buddy. That's who I'm gonna go with. Pine isn't ever getting lynched, so I hope he's town... One that I think will play better after I'm gone from the equation, since his reads need to stop being based on me. Elibrin is in the same boat. Since I'm town, everything you've said with your pre-flips is useless, so remember to learn from this game if you're town Elibrin.

Overall, I have to admit that scum just played a very good game. Town wasn't cohesive or able to get away from their constant conf biases, but that's not scum's problem. So good game scum. You guys played very well.

So let me know when you wanna lynch me and I'll join in. I should've been lynched yesterday, but gamma/Kyouko would've been shot by Alisae regardless after that, so it isn't like much changed. Oh, and AJ tryin to role fish saying Alisae wouldn't have shot Kyouko.... Lol. She would have, since she wanted him lynched yesterday, but she also may have shot me and the mod screwed it up. There was a mod error somewhere, but we'll see where post-game. Other than that, Alisae certainly would have shot Kyouko. Makes no sense to claim otherwise, and asking for a bus driver role to claim is scummy af.

So again, tomorrow... AJ then Nero. AJ is scum IMO. Nero/Pine are the other possibilities.

[Tywin Lannister]

Unless the mod error was that scum have a roleblocker that didn't stop the kill somehow. The implication would be on either me (I've heard claims that I'm a BP scum from some of you, which is ridiculous), or that Pine had Alisae blocked worrying that she'd target him (since Pine, me, Kyouko were her three targets). Other than that, Idk what the error could be. My guess is that the kill shouldn't have happened somehow. May doctor protecting Alisae? Idk. Since the decision was to leave things as is, I'm guessing it had to be something that didn't work for scum or she targeted me, since losing two townies and calling it 'fair' only really is fair if the true target was me over Kyouko, since I'm also a townie. Otherwise, scum roleblocked Alisae and her kill shouldn't have gone through, but since the outcome was still favorable to scum, it was called fair.

[Tywin Lannister]

The role I think it would be, which is Bus Driver, would be scum sided.

I've seen more town bus drivers than scum. So idk how you figure that, but even so... What the fuck? That's a scum tell in itself. The MOD said it was an error, so you coming in the thread complaining sounds like you're scum and the wrong kill went through.

[Tywin Lannister]

Pine, if you're town, you're an idiot. White flag AtE where I advocate for my own lynch so idiots like you can look for actual scum? Seriously, you're either scum or a complete moron when it comes to reading what people are saying. That was the weakest, most BS attempt to shade me that I've seen yet. It's almost as bad as when you tried to shade/wagon obv town Alisae yesterday. If you aren't scum by some miracle, you're terrible at reads. I really don't know what else to say. I'm honestly shocked how idiotic post 4050 is. I really am. It's maybe the second biggest scum tell of the game (behind your Alisae vote/shade yesterday), so if this is your scum game, Christ you got lucky. Your thought process makes so little sense that all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

In other words, you're saying: 'Scum Tywin is clearly scum because he advocates for his own lynch to get people like me (pine) to look elsewhere tomorrow. Obv scum tell here guys.' I can't even comprehend how drunk/high you'd have to be to come up with that thought, but coherently posting it leads me to believe you're on uppers rather than alcohol, so maybe lay off the coke bud.

[Tywin Lannister]

Can we just lynch me already so people like Pine/Elibrin can actually look for real scum in Lylo? Jesus Christ, I'm sick of the pre-flip associations. It's flat out bad play. Go read some Mafia how-to guides or something. I sort of understand why you'd use Cloud/Nos' words to implicate me, but at this point, I'm tired of dealing with it. Just lynch me already, because none of your talk will be useful tomorrow when you see me flip town. Everything you're posting that has me in it becomes useless, so stop wasting your or my time and get it over with like you've all wanted since D1.

The ONLY reason I'm still alive at this point is because scum know you idiots will mislynch me, and they've known it since D1 when Titus started the whole shit show. It's been pissing me off forever now, and the only hope town had was in Alisae, whose obviously I wouldn't have ever NK'd if I was scum. She was the only one even semi-listening to anything I say. I actually think about the implications of who I NK when scum, so an Alisae NK from scum me would be completely the wrong play. The fact that none of you even analyze the NK's alone should be a red flag, but it is what it is. I can't make people stop their obvious conf biases and look elsewhere until I'm lynched and flip town, so stop wasting my time. I believe my mislynch is the best move for town at this point, because if Elibrin/Pine ARE town, then they'd lose the game without question if I survive til Lylo.

It's not up for debate anymore. The only chance town has to win at this point is to A) hope there are only 2 scum left, and B) Hope Elibrin/Pine are town, and C) lynch me so that there's a slight chance in these players reworking their absolutely idiotic reads due to me being out of the equation. That's how I see things, so honestly town, do yourselves a favor and lynch me if you don't believe Pine/Elibrin are scum. Their votes will lose the game in Lylo if they're town and I survive. I've been attached to every player in the game now by them, so there's no hope without my lynch. Otherwise, they need to go. That's the only other option. Either lynch me now or lynch them and hope they're scum, because town have no chance to win otherwise. This isn't a joke, and fuck your AtE coke-fueled posts Pine. Use that coke in Lylo to rethink everything after my flip.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'd like nothing more than for me to be lynched and then Pine/Elibrin to be next after my flip. Pine is for sure scum, not only due to his obvious scum tells all game, or his idiotic thought process that literally makes no sense, but also because he would be the one to NK Alisae over anyone else in the game. He was on her list and knew it. He knew Kyouko/gamma/me were town, so it was natural for him to die tonight after my lynch had she still been alive.

Elibrin's reads have been wushy-washy trash all game, he hammered town without waiting for a claim, has been on every town wagon except gamma's, and all his reads are clearly based on me flipping scum. He doesn't even question it. He gives no hypotheticals of me being town, and he has no backup plan in place in case I do flip town. He associates shit Cloud posted with town players to shade them, and he ignores obvious scum tells from players like Pine for no apparent reason.

I honestly think these two are scum after the recent posts of theirs, so my flip is necessary I think to give weight behind that thought.

Titus: I know you want Nero, but when I flip town, would you look more closely at Pine/Elibrin in Lylo please? If they survive, and I'm positive they will, please kill one of them if you aren't NK'd tonight.

Sonia: same thing

Idk about AJ/Nero, but at least I can see them being town. They haven't been overtly scummy in the same way Pine has in almost every post of his.

I think Elibrin would've been NK'd by now if he was town. I'm less worried about him than Pine, since one is a sure thing. I think he definitely could just be bad at reads based on my one past game with him. He called a scum player confirmed scum before he got lynched, so that alone shows me he's maybe just not good at this.

Pine I think is obv scum. Said it all game, and I have no reason to think otherwise. He's been the scummiest player all game. He lurked like crazy all of D1. All he did was prod dodge like classic scum (Nos cough cough). He's always voted town, never even suspected scum players like Nos, and every single thought he gives is shading obv town in hopes of getting them lynched (mozamis, Alisae, now me). He is scum. Plz look at him first tomorrow.

In the meantime, plz vote me Titus/Sonia/AJ/Nero so that you guys can wagon pine/Elibrin in Lylo.

[Tywin Lannister]

EBWOP: Elibrin called a scum player confirmed town before he was lynched in my past game with him, so I honestly think maybe he's just really bad at reads.

[Tywin Lannister]

Cocaine and Mafia don't mix Pine. Me advocating for my own lynch is a scum slip? Wtf? At least pretend to not be obv scum. It makes everyone else look bad for TRing you after posts like that. Idk if you're town or not, but I do know that IF you're actually town, I have to be lynched today and we all have to hope it's not mylo already, because you will lose the game for town tomorrow if not. It's that simple. It's all common sense based on your reads and play this entire game. You are a huge liability in Lylo if town with me still in the game, so due to that, you'll not be NK'd if town mislynched someone other than me, and then the game would be lost due to you, Elibrin, maybe Gerryoats, etc.

Due to that knowledge that I'm 100% confident in, I HAVE to be lynched today. One of AJ/Titus/Sonia will be NK'd assuming there town. If Elibrin/Pine are town, and I am not lynched, we all know whose getting quicklynched in Lylo. At this point, anyone that thinks both Elibrin and Pine are town have no reasonable choice but to vote me. Otherwise, they have to SR you, because town has no win path in Lylo otherwise.

Does this make sense to you, or will you continue to ignore it? You clearly don't want to admit you're a liability in Lylo if I'm not lynched by then, provided you're also town (which I don't truly believe), but we both know who you'll be voting in that situation. We know who Elibrin will be voting. We know who Gerry will be voting. That's game without lynching scum today if the mislynch isn't me.

Titus understands what I'm saying, and I think AJ/Nero/Sonia would too. I think the lynch either has to be me or has to be Pine\Elibrin, because it's a loss otherwise since I'm town. That's the truth here, and IF you are certain I am scum, not voting me today and waiting til Lylo is scummy af and against Town's win con. If you're wrong about me (you are), then you'd gamble on it today over Lylo simply to save town's ass. Not voting me, yet calling me scum, means you're admitting being scum.

Make sense everyone?

[Tywin Lannister]

Please let me know if that post doesn't comprehend, and I'll try to reword it.

Point is, I'm town, but more than half the game thinks otherwise. Maybe Sonia is the only player left who TRs me for certain. That's not good, because unless you believe in a Sonia/me scum team, you'd know scum are also SRing me.

Now, if we mislynch today, tomorrow is Lylo. Everyone clear on that? Lylo = town loss with another mislynch.

With more than half the game SRing me, and at least three who ONLY SR me and base the other scum on pre-flip associations with me, that means my survival til Lylo = auto lynch. Still following?

Since I know I'm town, and I know mislynching me in Lylo = town loss, the conclusion HAS to be to lynch me today. There is no other option for a town win.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

I hope you people read what I said, and PLEASE stop TRing Pine tomorrow. Idk what else to say about it. He isn't town. It's so obvious that he practically screams it in every post he makes. He's one of the scummiest players I've ever seen on this site in any game. If it was Lylo, I'd be voting him and nobody else, but I don't think it is, and I don't want to be around for a quicklynch on me in Lylo.

I was wrong about Gamma, and Kyouko I flip flopped on a bit, but Pine screams scum. Please lynch him tomorrow. I'm as confident in Pine being scum as I was with mozamis being town, and I was the only one who was right about him. Listen after my flip please.

Pine trying to discredit me STILL after I am attempting to save the game for town by advocating my own lynch should say enough. He doesn't want to be implicated for my town flip. Plz don't forget tomorrow. Pine is scum.

As for the rest of you, unless you wagon Pine today, it has to be me. Thanks.

[Tywin Lannister]

It's more of mislynch me so you can get over yourself.

Read their 'scum lists' for the past three days and tell me when I'm not on one. Pine lists me in every list since D1, when he's not SRing Lapsa, Mozamis, Alisae, etc. Shit is obvious. Please read Elibirn's list and notice every post says 'after Tywin flips red, his buddy is X' or 'scum is Tywin/a different player' or 'scum is Tywin/even other players.' Every constant is me, so I'm not wrong in stating that I'll be the obvious quicklynch. Don't advocate for something else when you know the truth. Only scum would want me alive in Lylo at this point. Only ONE player TRs me this game, so stop being dense.

[Tywin Lannister]

The obvious best play is to lynch scum, but since everyone already SRs me, the best play from my perspective (knowing I'm town) is to lynch me before Lylo. I'm done fighting to prove I'm not scum, because I've done it for 3 day phases and still find myself either voted or on every list from these players. They can't ALL be scum, so knowing how they'll all vote beforehand, I have to choose the play that at least doesn't lose the game for town. It isn't a winning play, but I've weighed the chances of Pine getting lynched over me in Lylo, and it's not good. If you're going to gamble on a SR, then choose the one who wants to at least give town fresh eyes/reads and a chance in Lylo.

If Elibrin is town, then he will only change his reads by me flipping. Pine is the same, although he's scum so it doesn't matter. Gerry is probably confirmed (although he never confirmed being a Mason), and he naked voted me immediately after this day phase started then disappeared. There's no reason to believe he won't do exactly the same in Lylo. Titus, you still SR me, although you've proven you're town not only by Cabd's confirmation, but also due to rethinking everything after each flip. I stopped being your only priority, which makes me think you can't be scum. You're at least looking at other angles. Sonia TRs me, so she's already been shaded by Elibrin and Pine for it. Nero will do whatever since he's still null/scum lean, so I can't count on him being town. Scum Nero would hammer in Lylo. AJ is the same. If scum, he could just hammer the pine/Elibrin/gerryoats votes.

I think I've made it clear that if I'm to be lynched, it has to be today, and since everyone SRs me anyeay without even considering I'd flip town (Titus is the only one who has considered it), nobody should object to lynching me. You can all talk til deadline for all I care, but don't lose sight of the fact that I'd be the quicklynch in Lylo. If I was scum, I'd have absolutely no reason to want to be lynched here, and if it was Lylo and I was lynched, I'd still be fine with it. I'd still have a scum buddy to get the last mislynch moving.

So I think I've made my point, and there's no arguing against it unless you're wanting to lynch Pine. His death removes sure scum and a hammer vote on me in Lylo. Those are the only choices that make sense for town. I know you all understand what I'm saying here, so don't play coy.

[Tywin Lannister]

Seriously it's just constantly whining like a little bitch followed by blatant lies.

I posted a big beautiful wall post and made Mexico pay for it detailing how the posts, words, and actions of dead scum implicate you, and you non stop shout from the mountain top that my reads are all garbage and based only on preflip associations. I GUESS CLOUD AND NERO HAVEN'T FLIPPED YET SILLY ME

You're just mad that you're proven to be bad at this game at the very least. You can't take it, so you respond in ways only children talk like. I'm guessing you're not even an adult yet, so I can't expect you to know what the fuck you're doing with anything, including this game. Why you play something your so bad at is beyond me, but if it's to get better, then you'd have done so already. You repeat the same newbie mistakes you have in literally every game you play, so I think you're a lost cause and will always be bad. Oh well

[Tywin Lannister]

Elibrin, even arguing what what I've been saying is scummy af. Why are you speaking? Just vote me and enjoy losing in Lylo. I chose the best play for town to make, and you try detailing it with a bunch of shit posts that have no meaning. Just shut up and vote. You aren't worth anything more than that this game. You've proven that with every town lynch, so send in your vote and go back to your corner.

[Tywin Lannister]

No seriously though, we're going to thoroughly evaluate this game, which includes trying to deduce your alignment as well, which is what I've been trying to do. Or maybe you'd rather to continue to bitch about how no one is playing the game correctly (while I'm trying to) and how no one is going to honestly attempt to evaluate you (when I'm doing so) and how there is no case on you one way or the other (when I and others have posited reasons for reading you) and what theories there are rely on preflip associations (when I'm looking at flipped scum as evidence to help determine your alignment)

I don't care whose playing the game correctly or not anymore. I bitch when town makes bad plays, because I'm town and get screwed for their mistakes. We all make them, but when things are done in a way that every single Mafia guide/wiki/book in the world says not to do, it pisses me off when it still is done without even a single coherent thought as to why it's bad. I don't personally care if you're good or not, and it's all subjective anyways, but I care when my win con is hurt by others doing stupid things.

In your case Elibrin, the 'stupid thing' I take issue with is your conf bias and pre-flip associations. Any townie would at least look at others than the one player that's been railroaded since D1, and that townie would at least think about what happens to their reads, the chance of town winning, and even the implications on themselves if their top and only scum read for multiple phases was lynched and flipped town. You refuse to say anything other than 'Tywin will flip scum' when questioned on your logic, then start throwing out profanities and insults when the logic is proven bad.

Regardless, everything you post has been about me and whose associated with me. The problem is that I know I'm town, so literally every post you've made today is useless and has to be trashed after my flip. I recognize that due to knowing my own alignment, so you really have nothing to say. Insult all you want, but nothing productive has been posted by you in crunch time.

Beyond that, there's no analysis needed. The ONLY two plays that town has to make are lynch me or lynch Pine/you to avoid my quicklynch tomorrow. There's no other chance for town to win, so I don't think any discussion is necessary. If you SR me so strongly, and you wait to wagon me until Lylo, then you're scum. When I've repeatedly claimed townie, and I've pointed out that I need to be lynched today rather than Lylo, yet you ignore it and choose to gamble on the entire game when you SR me stronger than anyone else in the game... It means you're scum. There's no other option. Only scum would rather town lose the game in Lylo than simply gamble on a shit SR (it really is shit, since no case has ever been brought up... Ever). Regardless, if you truly believe I'm scum, you'd lynch me immediately. Not doing so is scummy af. Either you truly don't believe I'm scum (and therefore SRing me means you're scum yourself), or you're just a pussy who can't do anything with conviction. Either way, you're anti-town and a liability to everyone else.

Obvious scum Pine is scum for not voting me after I pointed out that doing so in Lylo loses the game for town. If he truly believes I'm scum, he'd lynch me today. Since he doesn't, he is scum
. Simple stuff, no? Also, he ignored my posts asking for him to give reasons to SR me. I even made a pretty list for him to use. He refused and ignored it, because not a single one of you has ever demanded him to be responsible with his reads/votes. He doesn't truly believe I'm scum, because he can't list even a single reason to SR me. He avoided the question, but you all ignore him, so he gets away with it. He's so obviously scum that IMO, not SRing him all game looks extremely bad for the town players here. This game has been a bad example of where this shit goes wrong without someone hard carrying town to victory. That only works for town when there are a lot of competent players who also give a shit, something that hasn't both been the case for almost anyone in this game. Also, nobody can do anything when railroaded by a mob of weak players using shit logic. I'd like to think these 'weak' players are just scum playing the part, but I'm not so sure. Just remember, if you're town and survive til Lylo... There's a reason for it, and the reason should probably make you feel insulted.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'd just ignore him at this point. The only thing I'd want to wait for is Sonia to see what she has to say over the last few days.

I pointed out how the only play for town to win is to lynch me today or to lynch obv scum like Pine. Ignoring that shouldn't even be a thought. Are you simply not following the logic, or what's the issue? I clearly stated what will happen if I survive til Lylo. It's common sense. If you SR me, you'd vote me today. Not doing so means you TR me. Is that true? So you'll vote Pine?

Let me put this another way: if I survive til lylo, the game is lost. Therefore, you must treat today as if it was lylo. That being said, if you SR me and vote me today, you get another chance to hit scum tomorrow. If I survive til tomorrow, you lose if town. How does that not make sense?

[Tywin Lannister]

And...Speak of the devil. Here he is. Gerry, can we lynch gamma and then if he doesn't flip scum, shoot me? Thanks

you didnt get shot, but you can sure get lynched

tywin was all but willing to be lynched the next day if we got gamma first, i believe

Yep. I was wrong about gamma, but Alisae chose to not shoot me for some reason. I knew I'd be mislynched if I wasn't shot, so I had to make that choice on one of my SRs. Didn't work out, but I can't survive til Lylo with players like you, Pine, Elibrin sure to not be NK'd if I did. You'd quicklynch me without thought, and then the game would be lost. Due to that, you must mislynch me today for town to stand a chance in Lylo.

At least you're already voting me. That's a plus. Can you confirm you're the second Mason, and that Syryana was afk when mozamis got lynched by idiots who can't read obvious town? Otherwise, it looks really, really bad on your slot to allow your Mason partner to get hammered by Elibrin. I was the only one defending mozamis, and I'm not the other Mason. Due to that, not defending the guy either means A) Syryana was afk and not around to see it or B) you're not the Mason and the real Mason is mentally incapable of playing this game.

Also, Pine not voting me is scummy. Elibrin not voting me is scummy. ISO their Read Lists and see why. I'm the only constant, so if they tried keeping me alive til Lylo, you know they're scum. Nero/AJ just don't read the game based on their comments, so whatever. I expect Pine/Elibrin to hammer me. If not, the only obvious answer is that they're scum. I really wish some of you tried to understand why.

[Tywin Lannister]

I will not vote Sonia.

Tywin vote Nero. Please. I would rather vote scum today.

That only works if he is scum, and if he is, the at least two of Pine/Elibrin/Gerry are town, maybe all three.

Are you so confident in Nero being scum that you'd lynch him in Lylo? That's essentially what I think this comes down to. Without Elibrin/Pine/Gerry drastically changing their reads (they won't, since they've never tried), a mislynch here that isn't me is game over.

So honestly, how much confidence do you have in Pine/Elibrin/Gerry not quicklynching me in Lylo? How much confidence do you have in Nero being scum? Think of the game as if it's Lylo at this point. Imagine you'll be NK'd tonight. Are you that confident in Pine/Elibrin being town and also not hammering me in Lylo? I'm not. I have absolutely no faith in those players, so scum would have to be idiotic to not NK you tonight and leave these players alive for Lylo.

[Tywin Lannister]

If we had 2 ml's I'd self vote to get out of this game rn lol

fake reaction

Libel, misrep, and possible lie. You have no idea if this is true or not, so why state it?

[Tywin Lannister]

Sonia, why try? These guys already were told that if they SR me so strongly, but don't vote me til Lylo tomorrow, the game is lost. Instead, they decide to NOT vote me while still saying I'm scum the entire time. Now they're attacking you instead.

The only non-obvious players were lapsa and gamma, although some may claim gamma was obvious town. I sure didn't think so, but whatever. Alisae was obvious. Mozamis was obvious. These players like Pine have attacked and lynched them regardless. They are either so bad at the game that I'd policy lynch them in any future game I see them in, or they are scum doing what scum have to do, in which case town just got completely outplayed.

I honestly can't see why anyone who SRs me wouldn't flip me today, especially when I'm advocating for it. If they stopped being so sure, then they should post that. If they're afraid of what others will think/say, then they need a damn backbone. Surviving til Lylo isn't a good thing when it means you're bad town.

[Tywin Lannister]

I am obv bad town

FTFY

[Tywin Lannister]

E

why is titus clear

Smh

Cabd the gunsmith investigated her. He was NK'd immediately after he claimed and cleared Titus. He flipped gunsmith.

I feel like you need to read games you replace in.

[Tywin Lannister]

I still want Pine lynched. I think he's scum, and I don't see a single reason for anyone to TR him. Matter of fact, him not flipping me today should be the biggest red flag of all. ISO him and see. He doesn't post enough content (or any at all with substance) for it to take long. Just do it. He isn't town, and if you look at his posts with the thought he may be neutral instead of a TR I can't understand, you'd see what I see. It's so obvious that idk how to get others to listen, because I shouldn't have to repeat it a million times without any responses. That means none of you read the damn game.

So just flip me already, and when I flip town, look at Pine finally. I don't see any other option. Nero may be scum too, but Pine is obvious. Idk how others don't see it.

[Tywin Lannister]

I read when I subbed in. More than u guys deserve for insulting me smh

Haha okay, my bad. I take it back. I've insulted a lot of people this game though, so don't take it personally. Think I've called every player bad at some point, maybe even myself. That's more of a personal problem where I have no patience to explain my logic 100 times and still have it ignored by people who don't want to read. It's super annoying to put effort into a game while the other townies do not.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Pine

[Tywin Lannister]

Packers should've lost. Smh. Not a cowboys fan, but I hate the packers.

[Tywin Lannister]

I think it's gotta be pine or me, but I could see Nero flipping scum. I'll probably be forced to vote there over Pine, which sucks IMO. At this point, I said what I think is the best move for any townies SRing me, so doing something else is your perogative. Just don't blame me if you quicklynch in Lylo and scum hammer it. If you were in my shoes, knowing you're town, and you know you'll be voted in Lylo by at least 1 town... You'd also say what I have. Otherwise, you'd just admit the game is a loss and move on.

As for Elibrin stating what my angle would be if scum... I'd not play this way if scum. To assume I would is basically admitting I'd take the biggest possible gamble ever for no real reason. Idk how you'd be able to conf bias it into being believable, but I'm sure you still try. I 'guess' you could claim I'm trying to remove focus from a scum buddy, but that makes no sense for me to want my own lynch today. I'd wait til lylo at least. At this point, if we don't lynch scum, the game is a loss. Oh well.

VOTE: Nero fuck it

[Tywin Lannister]

can you stop being overdramatic and unvote? as i said, this has no weight in my read on you because i'm doing things poe now. nero is the optimal lynch today

Why? Scum are Tywin and Sonia. Lynch there.

But I thought scum was me/Nero... No wait... Me/AJ... No wait... Me/Alisae... No wait, me/all the other players

You're so obviously scum it's pathetic. The fact that you won't lynch me before Lylo is ridiculous though, and that alone should make everyone vote you. Sadly, they won't.

[Tywin Lannister]

i dont tr pine anymore

Talk to me about it plz


Also I was gonna think about this game but screw you guys I'm gonna watch anime

You were doing so well up until the anime part! Another soul lost to the depths of depravity... Those of us not fallen into disrepute shall mourn you.

[Tywin Lannister]

At least Pine is finally voting me, although he's sure eager as hell to vote outside of Nero. He's been practically begging everyone to vote Sonia me, or AJ/me... I'm sure he'd pick Titus or Elibrin too if he could get away with it.

The other sad thing is he is going for the lynch we can 'all' agree on, yet that would mean it's obviously scum driven. Pine clearly didn't think that contrived statement through, did he?

Nero's lynch is stalling, because Nero and his buddy won't vote himself. That's obvious, but Pine practically begging everyone to not vote Nero is hilarious. Aside from that, Pine STILL has never given a case against me. Can someone please demand one from him? I've tried shaming him into doing so, but the rest of you ignore it and let him slide. Stop doing that plz. Pine hasn't added a single thing to the discussion today. His post begging to not vote Nero and to vote Sonia/Titus was extremely bad, and he wouldn't even give a case on her either. In fact, he's never scum read her before today at all, and yet he calls her scum without any reason today. Maybe it's because she TRs me, although you'd think Pine would be able to say that, right?

Pine should be lynched IMO. He's still obvious af, but Nero is his buddy after that awkward exchange of posts from them. Neither has added absolutely a single contribution to today's discussion. Stop ignoring that and start demanding them to answer questions/provide cases. When it's practically Lylo and they still won't do it, you know there's a problem. We are so damn close to pulling this out.

[Tywin Lannister]

I dont want pine rn. He voted alisae despite alisae threatening to shoot anyone calling them SK. idk if maf would. i think there is 2 mafs left.

People that can live today: Me, Titus, Elbirn, Pine

People that can get roped today: AJ, Tywin, Sonia, Nero.

This is idiotic thinking. Alisae was the most obvious town player in the game at that point. Pine voting her was a scum tell, plain and simple. Sonia is the most obvious town left, but pine trying to lynch her is an obvious scum tell. Mozamis was the most obvious town player in the game, but Pine lynching him was an obvious scum tell.

Yet Pine begs everyone to not vote Nero... One of the most null players in the game........

[Tywin Lannister]

He won't vote Nero and keeps saying 'switch to Tywin/AJ (Start of day) and then a page back says 'switch to Tywin/Sonia' when Nero was the counter wagon. At no point has he solidified any reads outside of me, so he shouldn't be TRing Nero so strongly while lumping everyone else as my scum buddy. That isn't read progression, and it looks completely contrived. Why do you keep ignoring things like that Elibrin? Maybe your Pine's buddy, since you constantly defend the guy. I can show the quotes of you doing so after work, and you've done it time and time again for no legitimate reason.

[Tywin Lannister]

Also, huge misrep by Elibrin there. At no point have I lied. Even Titus' claim is a matter of perspective over actual intentional lying.

Elibrin, I've read you as the town drunk most of the game, but at this point, I'm really starting to wonder if maybe you are Pine's buddy.

Again, I will actually give the quotes/post #s of the countless times you've defended Pine and/or chainsawed for him without any legitimate reason. You'll have some explaining to do bud. I get off at 5 PST, so you'll get it from me sometime after that.

See, the difference between town (me) and scum (Pine, maybe you) are that I actually provide cases and reasoning to SR people. I don't ignore repeated requests from players to provide them, unlike your buddy Pine.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Pine

If you're scum Sonia, I'll be mad at you, but I don't think you are. If so, you've played a great game, so I'd probably just give props.

Regardless, I think Pine is scum and gladly will vote there.

[Tywin Lannister]

cnero wouldnt know cloud is scum. thats a bad reason. and cloud would bus a maf

I don't honestly know who Pine's buddy is, but I'm pretty comfy with flipping Pine. Assuming he flips scum, the buddy can found much easier IMO. Just look for anyone that hasn't even mentioned Pine most/All game and/or players who have defended/coached him when he was writing scummy posts. Nobody has bussed Pine, and he frankly has never really had much of a wagon either. The one time he did, Alisae changed to Kyouko/gamma, because Pine was gaining zero traction. Sounds like a wagon that scum weren't ever joining to me. I think everyone else has had a wagon that made them L1 or close to it. Nero hasn't, AJ hasn't, and Pine hasn't. AJ/Nero ave both been called scum by multiple players. Pine hasn't, because scum never tried to make him look suspicious. The only super small wagon on Pine has been from confirmed town, who got NK'd the next night for threatening to shoot Pine/Kyouko/me. I know I'm not scum, and Kyouko flipped town, so the only one who had a reason to NK Alisae there was Pine. It's the same reason he voted her yesterday when she was confirmed town. She NK'd Nos, and Pine sure didn't like that!

I'm confident in him being scum. It just makes sense if you analyze the entire game.

[Tywin Lannister]

Elibrin may be his buddy for constantly defending & chainsawing for him, but I'll post why I think that when I can get on my laptop tonight and search for the quotes. It's really hard to do on an iPhone.

[Tywin Lannister]

Pine also lurked and only posted to prod dodge/vote townies all of D1. Sound familiar? Nos did it too. Who was the other player who voted Alisae instead of look for actual scum? Nos. Sounds like they strategized that to me.

[Tywin Lannister]

You have no reason to TR him. I've asked for you to provide them, but you never have. After all the absolutely scummy things he's done, to continue to TR him to a point where you blatantly chainsaw for him and defend him at every juncture without being able to provide reasons means you're probably his scum buddy. I don't have to convince you. Town are still the majority, or the game would be over. You can chainsaw for him even more (4240) all you'd like, but if you were town, you'd make him answer his own accusations. It's blatant at this point Elibrin. I'm sorry you couldn't get the lynch off that your scum team has been pushing since D1, but that's your fault for not playing the scum game well.

Nothing I've said is flailing. On the contrary, your entire two posts was classic flailing scum. Ironic lol.

[Tywin Lannister]

Okay, I hopped on my laptop for this. I will go through Elibrin's posts and prove that not only has Elibrin not only faked his TR on Pine since the very beginning, but has never provided reasons for it. I am positive he is scum due to this. You be the judge, but this shit is absolutely damning. I will tl;dr if it's wanted, but all the proof is right here. This is probably the best evidence to prove Pine/Elibrin are scum buddies and that Elibirn has lied constantly about his read on Pine. He cannot claim otherwise ever again now. Enjoy:

Post 77 here shows Elibrin joined the game stating Alisae/

Pine

/Cabd are town. Since it's still RVS, this post is only to show where his Pine read progression/sorting (hint: there was no progression/sorting) started: His very first post of the game.

Spoiler:

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice BEETLEJUICE!

I'm Bart Simpson, who the hell are you?






Okay so alisae

pine

and cabd are all town

Post 80 gives his reason for TRing Pine. You judge if it's legit and enough to keep the TR all game.

Spoiler:

Alisae, tone down the juvinilia. More than being annoying, it will cause many people, myself included, to take nothing you say seriously. Not being taken seriously is anti-Town.

And he makes posts like these which are town


And as for you cabd, idk you're town because I say so. I have enjoyed your words so far and your interactions with pine seem a fair analysis

[/quote]

2015 (because Elibrin hasn't mentioned Pine at all until a few thousand posts later) shows Elibrin voting Nosferatu, which may show that he is town? The wagon never gained any traction (for obvious reasons), so it may or may not be scum trying to gain TCred knowing this wagon won't go through. He changed his vote to hammer town (without asking/waiting for a claim) shortly thereafter when others (Sonia/Me) joined the Nos wagon too, so it nulls out the entire thing imo.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Nosferatu

Choo choo motherfuckers

Fuck you syr I came here to do this

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nosferatu

Dueling scum wagons gogogo

2298 is where Elibrin calls Pine/me TvT. This post is significant, because it's only the third time Elibrin has ever mentioned Pine, and he doesn't comment on Pine's vote. He just calls Pine town along with me. Interesting, don't you think? What sorting went on between his first post of the game and 2298? I didn't see anything that could even come close to implicating Elibrin sorted Pine. Interesting that Elibrin is defending me here though.

Spoiler:

Literally impossible unless those three plus me are scum

ok, caught up and have calmed slightly.
I'll rescind my rage vote for now. His reason for voting Lapsa sounds OK. Plus, I really want him to be town. He has to be null I guess for a while. But seems more profitabke to concentrate on cloud kikers stuff.

UNVOTE

My run through of Cloudkicker's ISO suggests that he was attacking Gamma, Alisea, Nero and I pretty consistently. There were others, and a few he went back and forth on, but they seemed more a feature of his spazzy nature than serious attacks.

More important is how hard he defended Tywin. That's where my vote is going.

VOTE: Tywin

I'm just gonna keep defending tywin while he continues to ignore my love

It's pretty easy for scum to play peacemaker for town cred when they see a TvT fight. I don't think there was anyone in this game that wanted to see tywin v. Titus continue any longer, and the "protown" move was clearly to try to promote peace

Post 2323 is interesting, because it shows Elibrin refuting Pine's reason to vote me. It's also interesting that Pine never followed up with it. Elibrin was clearly still TRing Pine here.

Spoiler:

Interesting. Why isn't that post flagging down SSM?

Which post in Cloudkicker'S ISO have you scumreading Tywin?

Any of a dozen or so where he's hard defending Tywin. If he's not CK's teammate, I could see him putting up a token defense for the "I was right" Towncred, but not going to the effort of actually derailing the wagon on him. Cloudkicker went to the mat for Tywin.

I like your thoughts and all, but respectfully disagree again. I don't think a tywin wagon had any chance of going through, especially with a few voices sticking up for him the same way that cloud was (cabd was pretty vocal in Tywin's defense, I was an echo of the same sentiment, etc.)

So there was nothing to really lose by being so vocal in his defense, there wasn't going to be a lynch there. If Tywin is town then there was no possible mislynch to lose out on.

Post 2489 shows Mozamis questioning Elibirn's town read on Pine. Elibirn refutes it with trash mockery, and never responds legitimately to why he still TRead a player that lynched town (which Elibirn hammered without a claim, JUST LIKE HE DID WITH MOZAMIS). First slot is Pine. Hammer slot is Elibirn. Coincidence or scum tell???? You know my opinion already, but we are only on D2 here! More to come

Spoiler:

Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)

Shit wagon

Well, he wasn't wrong.
On the basis 1)Pine town cos of Cabd/masons joke, 2)Titus cleared by Cabd, 3)Alisae just-seems-very-town+vigclaim+lolhammer
...you'd think scum might have hopped on, so Gamma and Elbirn.
Makes me move Elbirn back to null. And refreshes my memory as to Gamma being not great.

"This arbitrary list of 5 player names I picked out of a hat has to include scum because of fairy dust and child-dreams. I'm going to ignore any actual sense, logical thought, or work done by this player afterwards to take a mental diarrhea on them instead"

Merry Christmas Moz.

2836 shows a Scum List created by Elibrin. It isn't a coincidence that Pine still isn't on it. Nos is, but nos was the easy bus that Elibirn/Pine never actually bussed at all. Scum always need to add 1 buddy on the list. That's standard. What's interesting is Elibirn still won't explain his reads, either scum or town. He hasn't all game long. ISO him and see, because he's lied by claiming he has. All it takes is a quick ISO to prove otherwise though.

Spoiler:

Nero Cain
Nosferatu
Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic
mozamis


If you're not on this list, you're either town or alisae the nightkill immune miller vig. If you are on this list you just might be scum.

Behold my lynch pool, yee mighty, and despair!

3001 is where Elibrin hammered Mozamis (second townie in a row he hammered without asking/wait for a claim). What's interesting here is that literally only a few pages back, he had Mozamis as town. Does that show legitimate read progression to you, or is that scum hammering obv town for no reason and getting away with it?

Spoiler:

Votecount 2.5

mozamis 6 (Titus, ssbm_Kyouko, Pine, Gamma Emerald, Alisae, Aj The Epic)
ssbm_Kyouko 2 (Tywin Lannister, Nero Cain)
Aj The Epic 2 (mozamis, Elbirn)
Alisae 1 (Nosferatu)
Nero Cain 1 (xSoniaNevermindx)

Not Voting 2 (Syryana, Cabd)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is Friday, January 6, 2 PM Eastern.

I have become aware that Syryana is having some access issues and will not be prodding or replacing him at this time.

After this post was made, 2 more votes on aj (cabd and Tywin), 2 more votes on tywin (sonia and I forget), and 1 fake vote on moz (nero not bolding his vote like a chump)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mozamis

L-1 nerds

3013 is literally the first time that Elibirn has called me scum. Does that seem odd to anyone else? Just like Mozamis, he TR me just a few pages back, but then out of nowhere, he SRs me without reason. Also, this post looks completely contrived toward Alisae to direct her shot, because he knows he won't be NK'd as scum without her shooting him.

Spoiler:

intent to hammer

I'll hammer before bed so get any last thoughts out.

I think I've made my reads and intentions clear. If I die tonight, everyone please read the post of mine that has my "lynch pool"; then add tywin to it.

Post 3121 is when Elibrin finally calls me scum and votes me, although his reasoning is non-existent. Read this and tell me what his reason was. I surely can't tell. If any reason is to be found, it's by sheeping others. Never even once has Elibrin posted a legitimate reason to SR me, and he still won't even interact with Pine. Where's this read progression he kept talking about?

Spoiler:

I'm not dead? And that scum Nos is? Nice shot Alisae.

Also, I think via DOES matter. D1, when Titus was pushing Lapsa's wagon after mine failed, I tried pushing Nos (Eliburn did as well), but nope... Titus had to have Lapsa! She's never once mentioned Nos all game. She's not the lynch today due to Cabd, but it makes Cabd suspect along with her.

Also, Kyouko is scum. He kept calling Nos town for no reason. I want kyouko's scummy head on a platter.

I'm not the Mason. That's what I didn't understand. Why didn't moz's mason buddy defend him? Wth?

I TOLD you all he was town though. I also said Nos was scum Day fuckin 1. You people need to listen to me for once. Alisae saved the game, with no help coming from our 'town leader' players like Titus and Cabd.

Nevermind, I'm sorry I doubted you guys

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tywin Lannister

3122 shows Elibirn thought he hammered me. Again, this was without asking/waiting for a claim, and IF it had been true, it would've been the THIRD TOWNIE he HAMMERED WITHOUT A CLAIM. This shit is absolutely damning. Fucking scum lol

Spoiler:

......Wait.


Wait I might have just hammered.

3147 is another reads list by Elibirn. Notice Pine is the top townie still. Interesting.

Spoiler:

Elbrin, I would like a whole readslust from you.

How about a reads *list* instead?
-----------------------

Town

Pine

Transcend Syryana

gerryoat
Alisae
Titus

Scum

Nero Cain
Tywin Lannister
Ssbm_Kyouko**

Uhhhh

Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic
xSoniaNevermindx

------------------------------


So here's where I'm at, I'm done with Tywin's shit and the last bit of doubt in my heart was my belief that he was the mason partner. With that denied, he's a scum shit for sure.

Nero I'm probably being an over reactive baby towards but his vote thing yesterday pissed me off and he's done fuckall this game

Now Kyouko is kinda like "whaa" but look listen, what do we have for townready evidence? He openly speculated about masons? That sounded great when pine said it but now I'm kinda like...okay? Scum wants speculation about PR's to try to out them. We've got cloud hinting traitor towards kyouko, Kyouko hard townreading nos on *nothing*, scum-tywin mad distancing from him. Kyouko pointing out nos' fake doctor crumbs after his flip was like "look at what my scumbuddy did wow give me towncred" and it rubs me the wrong way.

I've kinda been sitting on this but yeah I don't trust Kyouko anymore and I want him tomorrow


Then my uhh list is like uhhh. Gamma and sonia I feel nothing for. I feel like sonia was town before for some reason but I don't remember why. Gamma is gamma enjoy. There's like nothing there. Aj I had as scummy for a few reasons but he's less so than those other 3 and at some point I started thinking of him less as scum and more as another collaborative voice.

3411 Titus, you might like this one. 3411 shows where he starts shading/framing you to be scum after the Cabd confirmation. Only scum would do that here. I think this needs to be shown, so I'm adding it.

Spoiler:

So I think you and I both realize the chances of a false-positive and true-negative existing at the same to to counter a 1-shot gunsmith is really unlikely. It completely invalidates a role that is... more or less flawed, even compared to a 1shot cop.

Which is why I'm stating that this post feels like scum employing the WIFOM of "Yeah but scum would never be fucking crazy enough to argue with confirmed town Titus". I know you're smart enough to see the writing on the wall and unfortunately I think Tywin's theatrics have given people the idea that such cases as the one quoted is acceptable and not retaliated against. Unfortunately, the fact that you are indeed smart enough to know Titus is almost certainly town means that this is complete and utter bullshit.

It's one of those cases were I'd expect you to put up or shut up here. This is a scum as hell post to try and discredit a basic confirmed town clear by a dead gunsmith by pretending to... call her out over not doing VCA? You're attempting to shake this read and do it in a way that people will say "oh but no scum would be that stupid". If you're going to toss shade, you might as well come out and build a case.

Cabd was not 1-shot, he was a full gunsmith. And it seems wholly reasonable for there to be more than one role that screws with gs. Scum also need a role that allows them to deal with vig/sk, so a roleblocker or doc or some such. Scum-doc seems a possibility.

Like ya yeah got me, I don't have balls massive enough to confidently attempt a push on a semi-confirmed titus. Nor the balls to pull a sudden 180 on someone I've just accepted as town the whole damn game on a whim.

But

1. It is entirely reasonable that there be a false-positive on the scum team.

2. Titus has done literally fuckall this game, especially ever since cabd confirmed her.

3. I have literally begged titus multiple times on multiple different topics to give me her insight (last day phase when she wanted me to vote moz and wouldn't tell me why; today regarding vca). This is, to reiterate, scummy af coming from her. I may be misremembering, but I do believe it was legends of the hidden temple mafia 2 where town caught scum-titus partly based on this tell.

4. When titus suddenly can't read me and starts floating me as scum for no real reason, she's scum. I know this is subjective as fuck. No one needs to pretend this point makes any sense. (But again, hidden temple 2 I'm pretty sure?)

It's not nothing dude. It's there, it's a thing.

And you chainsawing and trying to come at my throat over it is scummy as fuck, and I see in later posts you're still tsk-tsking me about it. Vote me or shut the fuck up.

<3 Hugs + Kisses,
-Elbirn

3560 is where Elibirn starts whining about Titus being conf town, how he's not good enough to get her lynched due to that, and so he wants to replace out. Scummy AF post of the day ladies n gents!

Spoiler:

I want to sub out because one of the following is true

1. Our confirmed town is using their confirmed town status as an excuse to do fuckall instead of leading town like I know she's capable of doing and like I know she loves to do when town because she has an ego the size of a really big thing. She instead thinks the best course of action is to refuse to engage with the game or people literally begging her to do anything.

2. Our only PR result was a false positive on scum-titus and I will never, ever be good enough to push a lynch here because "titus is conftown"

Either of these result in a few more months of playing a game that's already lost, and exactly 0% fun.

3892 Here's another reads list calling Pine town without reason. He's literally never given one, unless you count his second post of the game, which I tagged above.

Spoiler:

FYI, I get NK'd.
Gamma flip scum = Pine or Kyouko shot. Lynch the other. Preferibly Kyouko
Gamma flip town = Tywin gon git rekt

I keep telling you not to do this. Pine is town and Kyouko is probably too.

Gamma
Aj
Tywin

^ there's your dead pool

4031 is the SECOND time ALL GAME Elibirn has interacted directly with Pine. Two times all game... for his TOP town read since his FIRST post. Does this NOT look scummy af to anyone else? Please tell me why if it doesn't. Also, this clearly shows Pine/Elibrin strategized to make me the lynch, and he's also shaded Sonia for TRing me here. This post also shows that Elibirn has never had a reason previous to this to SR me or vote me, and he is 'attempting' to sheep Pine's reasoning here. This proves Elibirn is a liar and never truly SR read me. Proof:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Pine: I'm going to go through CK's iso when I can and see if I see what you see. My belly-feels still feel good about tywin/sonia team.

When we lynch Tywin and he flips red, i'll go over why exactly you thinking me and him are buddies is really dumb, if necessary, but lort pine don't do this to me just lynch scum

I agree that CK analysis is crucial, overall we all haven't been playing smart. I even said I wanted to start playing smarter and then proceeded to do fuck all about it. Today we start playing mafia 4 real. CK and nos analysis is key. I'll also be looking at tywin and Sonia under a microscope while I'm at it.

I think we should figure out why CK was night killed. Before I'd have said he was killed for having on point reads, but now that literally everyone he's voted for has flipped town, *shrug shoulders, fart noise* so it must be something else. Scum doesn't kill for nothing.

I'm going to stop at 4032, because this is the first time Elibirn has ever posted a case, and it was clearly done with Pine talking him through it in their scum daytalk. The original strategy of scum Pine was to lurk as much as possible along with Nos. When Alisae claimed, they tried to shade her into being the SK and both voted her there. They never once looked for actual scum, but the SK talk was their excuse to not do so. That alone is scummy AF. In 4032, it shows that Elibirn has never actually SR me the entire game until this point, so everything before that was fake, lies, and sheeping off of his scum buddy Pine.

[Tywin Lannister]

Look at this scum attempting to discredit my case. I gave an absolute boatload of proof, and he has nothing else to say. It's also interesting that both Pine and Elibrin absolutely freaked out and combined in their attempt to discredit my upcoming case on Elibrin when they saw I was doing it. They called it flailing together, although they've clearly never read anything I said. I think it's obvious who put effort into proving who is scum and which players get by with lurking, fluff posts, and garbage. If my case doesn't convince town now, then probably nothing will. There's nothing Elibrin can post that will refute anything I've said, because the proof is all there. He's fucked and knows it.

Titus: I will join an Elibrin wagon if you promise to lynch Pine with me after he flips scum. They're obv buddies, and Elb needs a rope.

[Tywin Lannister]

Oh look, the scum gave up. Guess he can't handle my wall of truth. Kinda hard to fight something when everything is laid out right in front of you, isn't it? At least you admit that you were wanting to hammer a third townie without reason this game. I accept your surrender scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

Smh. Whatever. I give a case absolutely full of why Elb is scum, Nero doesn't read any of it, and votes me. Maybe Elb/Nero scum team. Pine is just VI.

This goes to show that putting effort in these games is pointless, because stupidity always beats intelligence. The average attention span of a millenial is around 2 seconds. Anything more than that is too much for them. Since my post takes reading and the willingness to actually look for scum (instead of putting zero effort into it and doing whatever without thought or care), it won't be read by anyone. Great.

Enjoy your loss everyone. I won't let you forget it in future games.

[Tywin Lannister]

Scum team = Elibrin/Nero. Nero is the newscum. Elbrin's absolutely fake TR on Pine is scum budding the VI. That's my assessment now, because the only other option is that Nero is mentally challenged. That's an option, but I don't want to call him that myself. He can do that on his own. Post game will show which is which regardless. Enjoy

[Tywin Lannister]

hat's my assessment now, because the only other option is that Nero is mentally challenged. That's an option, but I don't want to call him that myself.

yea I'm done with you.

You're scum, so idc that you won't even pretend to not be anymore.

I just realized that all three of Nero/Elbirin/Pine could be scum, in which case it is Lylo. The entire idea of 3 scum left came from Elibrin. Any ISO would show that. That means the only town left are Titus, Gerry, Sonia, AJ, me. I think game is lost, because all 3 of them need to be lynched in order.

[Tywin Lannister]

How in the fuck is Nero newscum lol

The issue with your wall is it's actually bad. Post 2015 where "Elbrin hasn't mentioned pine..." is because PINE WAS INACTIVE for the majority of d1. 2323 right away should make you question your entire premise of them being scum together but instead you just push it harder.

Post 2489 is complete bullshit because everyone in this game thought Elbrin put Mozamis at L-1, not lynch. That was Nero's unbolded vote that caused the issue, not Elbrin's hammer.

You see what's going on here? You're skewing the context of literally everything to whatever fits you best.

The thing is, Elibrin got away with hammering OBVIOUS town for the second time in a row there, without a claim. Nero was going to hammer regardless with his intent post, so his vote was counted. The other issue is that Elb TR mozamis right up until he hammered with Nero. That sure is odd to me, but maybe to you it isn't. I can't make you think about all the angles, but I damn will point them out to you. And then Elb thought he hammered me as well, which would be the third townie he hammered this game. Pine lurked all of D1, which you just admitted, yet that isn't a HUGE red flag to you? What's your experience in Mafia AJ?

Based on everything I showed, which is fucking extensive, Elibrin never once sorted Pine or did anything but TR him from his very first post of the game. Any player that has any experience playing Mafia knows that isn't a townie trait, and regardless, it proves Elibrin lied. You can't sort a player who you've never interacted with or mention more than twice in a game, neither of which were posts that were ever about getting a legit read on him.

This game isn't that difficult if you stop being lazy.

[Tywin Lannister]

Scum team = Elibrin/Nero. Nero is the newscum. Elbrin's absolutely fake TR on Pine is scum budding the VI. That's my assessment now, because the only other option is that Nero is mentally challenged. That's an option, but I don't want to call him that myself. He can do that on his own. Post game will show which is which regardless. Enjoy

Wait I thought I was scum! Oh noes, don't call me a VI!

As for the rest, I'm tired of being trolled by scum, so do what you want. It's not hard to read between the lines and see what's going on if you actually paid attention AJ. Just vote me and end the game, because I think it is Lylo at this point.

[Tywin Lannister]

Holy crap, could you get more fake with the AtE? It isn't LYLO. A four-person team plus a robust Traitor would never have made it through Normal review. Especially not with the generally weak and conditional Town power we've seen. Get over yourself.

Put some effort into the game VI/scum. If I thought anyone would actually read it, I'd do a case and prove you never have, but that's kind of obvious anyways. If it isn't Lylo, then you're either one of the most useless VI's I've ever encountered, or you're scum. Either way, your bad for town. If you prove to be town afterall, I think this game will be embarrassing for you.

[Tywin Lannister]

Oh, you only hammered one town, voted the other, and then thought you hammered me. I saw transcendent's post showing those on the Lapsa wagon, and with your name last, I assumed it meant you hammered. I haven't done VCA, because Titus was supposed to, and it's the easiest thing in the game for everyone to read. It shows Pine/you are scummy af due to the townies you've lynched, so I didn't need to mention it.

Are you saying that your VCA isn't scummy by any normal standards?

At this point, if one of AJ/Gerry/Tirus/Sonia vote me, I will hammer myself. The town players on my wagon get what they believe is scum, and if it's Lylo, it will be game over. Either way, I won't have to care anymore. This game has been extremely unfun and demoralizing by far over any other game I've played on this site. I appreciate actual effort and thought, but when nobody puts any in, I feel cheated. All the active and critically thinking town players were NK'd or lynched already, which leaves either people who stopped caring long ago (Titus/Sonia/etc) or people that never cared (Nero/AJ) or people I believe are scum for never trying at all (Pine). Post game will either prove that I'm right about you two being scum or about one/both of you being VI's for future meta. That's good info to have at least, and I'll know which games to avoid without the right mix of players. Trying to convince people of obvious things with post quote facts, but being ignored anyways is extremely annoying/demoralizing. Being trolled for it by little kids is even worse.

Regardless, I feel like this game had the fun sucked out of it when people vote me without ever giving a legitimate case. I've proven that with my wall post. Obviously, scum have been voting me too, but some have to be town. In that case, if you aren't scum by some chance Elibrin, then I feel as if you should stick to the newbie queue for a a few more games. Readjust how you read players, because what you do in all of your games hasn't worked, and it wouldn't be the first time you've been told to play more newbie games. Maybe go take the hint, and stop getting yourself lynched immediately while claiming scum are conf town. That just looked really bad, but I assumed it was an off day for you. If you aren't scum here, then it just solidifies your ability as town IMO, and I kind of feel bad for you.

Tl;dr: will hammer myself if one of obv town Titus/AJ/Sonia vote me, since town can't win with even a single town voting me if it's like Lylo, and if it isn't, then my mislynch may finally implicate scum to the town players paying attention still. If not, then there's no point in extending a lost game.

[Tywin Lannister]

Stop lynching Tywin.

The vote today will be in Nero and AJ.

Why AJ? Nero I agree with now after his opportunistic vote on me without reason or thought about the current game state whatsoever, but AJ just always seems null/town lean to me. He certainly isn't confirmed like you/Titus or looks obv town based on VCA like Sonia, but I honestly believe at least Pine is scum too. That leaves only Elibirn/Pine/Nero as my possible scum. If it isn't Lylo today, then one of those three are town. Maybe it is Elibirn, since I've kind of already proved he doesn't have any clue what he's doing or why he does it.

Can you give any reason at all to TR Pine though? Any reason is better than none. Elibirn was proven to never have or give a reason to TR Pine since his very first post, so maybe he's just the VI, but you aren't Gerry. Why do you TR Pine?

Titus: why do you TR Pine?

Sonia doesn't so I don't need to ask her.

AJ: why do you TR Pine?

Nero: Why do you TR Pine?

If you don't have a reason, at least answer that it's a gut read, but stop ignoring him.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Nero

Since you guys won't vote Pine, fuck it. I think everyone is largely checked out of this game anyways. I just want it to end at this point. Nero has as good a chance as any to be Pine's buddy. Elb really does have to be the VI for that theory to hold water though. The one thing I can say about Elb over Pine, Nero, or AJ is that he voted Nosferatu before. I showed that in my wall post as well, because 'it's only fair' (remember that line I was originally scum read by everyone for?). The real problem with a 100+ page thread is that it takes too much work to do proper analysis of players at a time it's most needed. Took me hours to do the post I did on Elb, and it wasn't even read by players like Nero, who just so happened to throw his vote on me opportunistically. That pisses me off, and since I can't name any time Nero did a damn thing this game outside of pushing Titus with me D1 and opportunistic votes on town, i have no regrets lynching him. I want Pine more, since he's the sure thing IMO, but Nero is the consensus obv town pick and one I'm good with.

[Tywin Lannister]

Pine isn't being lynched today, and if Nero flips town, I'll be quicklynched tomorrow anyways. If he flips scum, then you can talk about what you wanna do with Pine.

Elibrin: why do you have tunnel vision when you don't really TR other players either? Okay, you TR pine. That's clearly understood. I won't even argue the why anymore. You just do. I don't. Whatever. But Nero, you don't wanna look at because you SR me and Sonia? Why? She TRs me and I TR her.. That's your reason? How many games have you played where scum TR each other to the point that it's blatantly obvious? Scum usually distance each other for a reason, or at least they keep each other null. Actually, that also sort of refuted my claim that you and Pine have been buddies this whole time too.

Idk why you'd tunnel anyone. I've tunneled pine, but even I flip flop on his buddy. Pines also said some blatantly scummy shit. There's a reason I SR him. What was blatantly scummy about my play that makes you believe I'm scum, and what is blatantly scummy about Sobia that makes you believe she's scum? What has Nero done to not even really look at him, and what has Pine done to hard TR him like you have?

I'm just curious at this point, not trying to change your mind.

[Tywin Lannister]

He's scum and I'm pushing him and he's pushing back. Why would I not be?

Lol!!!

[Tywin Lannister]

Nero I agree with now after his opportunistic vote on me without reason or thought about the current game state whatsoever,

this is blatantly untrue. This is like the second time you've claimed that I'm not giving reasons. Like, I'm not going to convince you that you are scum so of course you'll disagree but you disagreeing=//=no reasons given.

Titcus most likely isn't scum cause she'd have to be scum doctor and that counters our best pr's I doubt it

?????

Can we just hurry up and lynch Tywin so I can be conf town tomorrow? Though I'm sure someone will bring up the "IT WAS A BUS!"

Okay, so what was I lying about? Your vote wasn't opportunistic? How so? You waited til Pine/Elb voted me then jumped on. That's the definition of opportunistic, so idk what you think was lied about? Not giving reasons? Well, your reason was 'Tywin/Sonia both scum read me, so they must be scum.' So your reason is OMGUS.

Now, when I say 'reasons' to vote someone, I'm saying you have nothing you can point at, no posts, no quotes, nothing that you can show that says 'Tywin said this scummy thing.' You have no reasons in the purest sense of the word. Saying 'I have reasons so that's a reason!' doesn't make it true. I'm not talking fucking semantics here. It's common sense what I meant when I said you have no reason to vote me or Sonia, so using semantics as a way to call me a liar in defense is just ridiculous and scummy. I CLEARLY implied that you have no reason to call me scummy, therefore voting me is scummy in itself.

Also, your post about being confirmed town, because I'm voting you which means you're town... Jesus H Christ.

[Tywin Lannister]

The funny part is that Nero wants to vote me to be conf town somehow, which is ridiculous from any perspective. If I was scum and flipped, his opportunistic vote on me could just be scum attempting a bus play. That's not how you 'conf town' anything Nero. How are you so dumb this game? Since I'm not scum, lynching me today would only get you roped tomorrow, so you're not very bright. I think your scum hoping to get to Lylo.

Also Nero, if you were town and truly believed I was scum, you'd have no problem being lynched today, because you flipping town is sure to get me quicklynched tomorrow. The stupidity that you've shown is beyond your normal town meta, so you're clearly acting dumb on purpose. You're scum and need to eat some rope. Your buddy can wait til tomorrow.

[Tywin Lannister]

I respect the effort though, but I think you played it too far Nero. Since almost everyone has played in other games with you, we already know you're not this dumb. I can't see anyone believing it.

[Tywin Lannister]

The simple fact that Nero hasn't been hammered means he's scum. You're welcome to flip me instead, but when I do flip town, Nero must go. The fact is that if we were both town, scum would hammer one of us without question. This being a tie makes it obvious.

So... Nero or me can go, but the other then needs to die. It's that simple. I'd also like Pine dead as well, so I'm cool with my lynch if we explicitly understand that Nero is dead, then Elibrin/Pine are chosen for the next lynch. AJ, you seem okay with the opposite, so if that's the case, fine. I am town, but if I have to play the game as if it's Lylo right now, I'll play it thinking Nero/Pine are scum, Elibrin is a VI, and the rest are town. If the lynch is me, then it needs to be expressly stated that Nero/Pine eat rope after I'm gone. I'll even vote myself to break the tie in that case. Bet Nero won't do that one, since he's obv scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

Elibrin still calling Sonia scum if I flipped town, while begging Titus to prove she's town somehow instead of sorting her himself... I just can't even

[Tywin Lannister]

I just really wanna see who is the VI in this game between Elibrin and Pine, or if they're both scum. It's one or the other really, but seeing as there's a tie with both wagons, that looks damning to my townie eyes. It really is common sense that scum won't hammer themselves, and if this was TvT, one of us would've been hammered already. My flip would prove I'm town and Nero is scum, and it would make Elibirn/Pine finally have to defend themselves for their scummy posts. I kinda see good things no matter which wagon gets hammered.

[Tywin Lannister]

Why did the game just stall to death

Send help

Smh, just stop posting. Common sense clearly isn't your strong suit. This post alone makes me strongly believe you don't know what you're doing at all.

[Tywin Lannister]

I just really wanna see who is the VI in this game between Elibrin and Pine, or if they're both scum. It's one or the other really, but seeing as there's a tie with both wagons, that looks damning to my townie eyes. It really is common sense that scum won't hammer themselves, and if this was TvT, one of us would've been hammered already.

My flip would prove I'm town and Nero is scum

, and it would make Elibirn/Pine finally have to defend themselves for their scummy posts. I kinda see good things no matter which wagon gets hammered.

Also a completely false dichotomy.

Nope, not false. It's common sense scum. You're fucked either way bud lol. Painted yourself in a corner.

[Tywin Lannister]

Pine knows I'm town so now that I have already proven that Nero is scum due to the tied wagons, and how he needs to be lynched after me, Pine goes all out to discredit everything he can. He knows once Nero flips scum, he's fucked, and Nero will be lynched no matter what: either today or tomorrow after I flip town.

Pine, you're so screwed. You played badly.

[Tywin Lannister]

Still Tywin. There is absolutely nothing to recommend him as Town, and a lot to say he's scum.

I don't think I believe your Doc claim, tbh. I don't see any reason to hold them back. Not fully decided yet though.

Alternatively, I'm a bit ambivalent on AJ, and Elbirn needs another look.

What's sad is that you haven't read the game AT ALL or you'd have known yesterday's lynch of Nero, which stalled out for obvious reasons, almost certainly means I'm town. To argue otherwise without even thinking of what that wagon/counter-wagon/stalled lynch means is just stupidity and bad play. It's so bad that I still think you're scum.

So it's either Sonia or its Pine. I choose Pine.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey tywin, alisae, remember our first game where I thought scum was doctor?

I might have done that again cuz for some reason I got it in my head aj was the doctor.

Neither sonia nor tywin are scum, I was gonna bounce in here and vote pine and declare that we should finish thoroughly embarrassing me by lynching the scum-pine but now he's claimed a pr and idk what to think about it

Elb, you keep growing on me friend. I like you.

Pine claimed by saying he blocked Sonia. If both were true claims, then there is no viable explanation for a NK whatsoever beyond 'scum forgot to send one.' That's stupidity to believe that. If that was true, all we'd have to do is find the site activity of each player. Most of us are in other games.

Since I don't believe that, it means Pine is lying and is scum. Simple stuff IMO,

[Tywin Lannister]

Otherwise it's Sonia. There's no viable explanation otherwise. If Pine really is a TOWN RBer, then Sonia is scum.

Pine: why block me two nights in a row? I claimed VT like D1. I understand you think I was scum, but knowing there are more out there, you chose me why? Conf bias? Or what?

[Tywin Lannister]

Wait you roleblocked ME?
After Nero's flip your next thought is I'm scum...are you kidding me

This is my thought too. Pine can't be this dumb.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm not a doctor I was fake claiming to draw a nk but like holy shit

Wait what? Ok maybe Sonia is scum. Need to read everything before I post I guess.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm not a doctor I was fake claiming to draw a nk but like holy shit

Okay I rubbed my two brain cells together and came up with this

There was no nk
It makes zero sense for scum to not nk with 2 conftown and probably a 3rd pr out there left to claim
Something stopped the nk
There isn't both a doctor and roleblocker out there, for balance reasons as far as overall town power and for the overlap in utility
Pine must have been the only action and he roleblocked sonia

Sonia is scum barring a counterclaim, and I don't see why scum pine fake claims something here

I have to agree. I didn't see Sonia was fake claiming, so the only explanation is Sonia is scum.

Sonia, anything to say? Why did you fake claim doctor? To draw an NK? Lol? I'm voting you soon if you don't give an absolutely amazing explanation, and also, you might wanna claim for real this time. Pine can't be scum if you aren't Doctor, therefore you are scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

I counterclaim intelligence. We are not lynching Sonia or Pine. Sonia's fake was p town imo.

Lol Titus you can't be this dumb either. There's nothing PT about a fake claim at this point. Absolutely nothing. It's scummy af, and the only reason she just took her claim back was due to Pine claiming he blocked her.

The only reason there's a no kill is because it was blocked. There's no other explanation without a doctor. Idk how you can't see obvious things. This is basic Mafia 101 here Titus. Are you scum too? Your play the entire game would make me believe so based on the absolutely illogical thought process you have, and now that I know what scum Titus looks like, your play fits right in with that.

That being said, you aren't the lynch today, but if the game isn't over after lunching another scum, you should be next. I think there's only 1 scum left for balance reasons, but idk how you'd come up with the thoughts you have if you were town. There's literally no explanation other than being scum at this point. Why Elbrin? You seem to want to ignore VCA, claims, fake claims, and everything else in the game for no apparent reason whatsoever. It's straight up bad play if you aren't scum. Now that I know what you do when you are scum (take bad plays and push bad lynches without reason), I wonder what town you looks like, because I sure hope this isn't it.

[Tywin Lannister]

I buy a no kill at this point over Pine blocking Sonia successfully.

Odds are almost guaranteed only one scum left, and evidence points to Sonia.

And by the way, this is entirely balanced, from my experience with the Normal review team. They're leaning pretty heavily Townsided lately, because history suggests powered scum wreck Town.

I'd like nothing more than for Pine to be scum, but even I can see the writing on the wall. This is common sense here. Scum were blocked, so Unless someone CC's Pine, he's not scum and Sonia is. It's that simple. This really is basic Mafia 101. You should know this before leaving newbie queue smh.

[Tywin Lannister]

Unless you can explain any alternative reason to not believe Pine blocked the NK anyone? What exactly makes you not believe it when all the evidence is stacked toward that assumption?

I realize Sonia's play looks town, which is why I've called her obv town half the game now, but I don't see any alternative explanation for there being no kill last night.

[Tywin Lannister]

I just can't see any reason to look elsewhere when hard evidence is presented.

Due to no NK, and as far as I know, no doctor, there are only two possibilities:

1. Scum didn't send in an NK at all. The night phase did last forever, but this seems ridiculous. It's the long explanation for something that inherently doesn't make sense. Scum would have had to be afk the entire time. There's no logical reason for scum to not NK last night, so this had to be an inactive slot. We could look to see who wasn't active over the weekend I suppose? Other than that, it could be really bad 'trickery' by scum to force a mislynch today. That being said, it would've been a bad play, so I can't really accept that.

2. Pine is town RBer, which fits balance-wise without a doctor. Pine blocked Sonia. Sonia's NK failed due to that. Sonia is scum.

Anyone else have any other explanation? I don't, and which one fits occam'd razor? That would be #2 IMO.

[Tywin Lannister]

Occam's razor doesn't work here if it doesn't account for all the information available, and concluding that it's sonia means ignoring N3.

Haha didn't pedit but why doesn't it fit? With two explanations, the simplest one is Scum Sonia. It even goes against my belief that Pine is scum, but I can't see a way he isn't town RB here.

[Tywin Lannister]

What are the alternatives for no NK though? I've looked at all angles here, and I can't find any. If I could conf bias Pine into being scum, I would have (and did before I saw Sonia's doc claim was fake), but it just doesn't work. We can discuss theory and balance all day, but the facts are that there wasn't an NK. We either believe it was blocked, or we believe it wasn't ever sent in. I can't fathom why the second option would happen, so I have to go with the first. Pine's claim fits that.

If we are talking about balance though, then it's POSSIBLE for there to be 5 total scum (1 was a traitor), in which case Titus has to be scum Doctor (since she looks so scummy, I'm throwing this out there), and Sonia is some other scum role. This would explain Titus acting weird, defending Sonia so hard, and going for bad lynched like Elibrin here (not to mention straight up disbelieving Pine without reason). The ONLY way this matters is if we lynch scum today (I'm gonna vote Sonia barring any substantial revelations) and the game isn't over still. In that case, Titus is scum doc and needs to go tomorrow. That would 'somewhat' make sense in a balancing act with all the town PRs. Obviously, none of this matters if it's game over after Sonia is lynched. I'm just throwing this out there as another possibility, and only assuming Sonia flips scum and it's still not over.

[Tywin Lannister]

TBH in this setup, isn't a RB negative utility to town though? So much shit it can block from town, so little from scum.

Pretty much, which is why not having a doctor makes his claim believable, not to mention the obvious elephant in the room... No NK last night.

[Tywin Lannister]

That L1 or L2? I'm gonna wait for Sonia to speak before I vote, but without any other explanations, my votes a lock there. Even if she flips town, that means Pine is scum, so yeh... Games pretty much over. If scum Pine was making a play to not NK last night for his RBer claim to work, he'd still lose. He would've been better off sending in the kill and then hoping for a mislynch today. As it stands, he'd have 3 kills if he sent one in last night, mislynch today, send one tonight. He gets two if Sonia is a mislynch, which I don't think is the case. With 6 town players left, not sending in an NK to get 1 mislynch doesn't make sense.

So Sonia, anything you want to add? Maybe a REAL claim this time? If you're L1, I intend to hammer. Otherwise, I intend to put you at L1. I haven't counted votes, but idk that it really matters. You might wanna play as if you were, since I don't see how you'd not get lynched without a CC. You played a good scum game. Had me fooled the entire time.

Pedit: Gerry, thoughts on Pine, Sonia? What's with AJ that you don't like?

[Tywin Lannister]

My PoE has AJ as scum.

Titus did lead the Nero charge over the past few days, so that is true.

Gerry, what part of the no-NK and Pine claiming to RB Sonia doesn't make sense to you? Why AJ? There has to be scum in the Pine/AJ side of things IMO. Regardless, Sonia needs to claim. Actually, idk why everyone hasn't yet. Now is a good time for it. Almost everyone agrees that there's 1 scum left for balance reasons, and if there is two, we won't know til we flip scum and the game isn't over yet.

So what's the deal with AJ that you don't like enough to not want to look at Pine/Sonia right now? Wtf? Also, are you the Mason or not? Yes or no. Stop giving cryptic answers. If not, then you aren't confirmed and there's a problem.

[Tywin Lannister]

Gerry what possibly would stop you from claiming a role you've let everyone in the game assume is true for 3 day phases now? If you aren't the Mason, then someone has to be, and nobody else has claimed it. It makes literally no sense to not claim it with a straight answer. I can't think of any reason not to outside of being scum, which I don't think you are. You going after AJ right now instead of looking at the evidence in front of you looks weird as all hell to me, and I can't figure out why you'd do it. More discussion is fine, but you're straight up ignoring things right now to go after someone outside of the obvious candidates, and it doesn't make any sense.

Unless you believe there are two scum left, what's the point you're trying to make? Sonia got roleblocked yesterday, and although she hasn't claimed yet (which is why I haven't voted her thus far), she fake claimed Doctor for no reason. She didn't give a real claim after. At this point, she's stalling the game. She needs to claim already and say something if she is town. If she's scum, of course she'd disappear to think about things.

[Tywin Lannister]

Catching up. I thought someone would've hammered Sonia by now tbh. Now I see Elibrin is the new wagon? Will post after reading.

[Tywin Lannister]

Titus.

Excuse me, but shut the fuck up.

I have what amounts to a probable guilty.

No, you have circumstantial evidence that you interpret as a guilty.

You are all getting sidetracked. These are the FACTS:

1. There was no NK last night.

2. Pine RB'd Sonia

3. Sonia wouldn't claim at L1, and pretended to hammer herself instead

Do I need to repeat these things a few thousand times for players like Titus and Sonia to acknowledge it?

Again, I'll point out the absolute hard facts:

1. There was no NK

2. Sonia was Roleblocked

3. Sonia didn't claim and pretended to hammer herself instead



Sorry Titus, but you not acknowledging that there wasn't a kill last night is beyond belief. Again, there was no kill last night. I'll repeat it: there was no kill last night. Again, there was no kill last night. One more time! There was no kill last night. Hey, guys, guess what didn't happen last night? A scum kill!!!

So Pine roleblocked Sonia and there was no kill last night. There's nothing in the entire game of Mafia that's as sure as this beyond a Cop investigation in a normal that doesn't allow paranoid/naive/insane modifiers, no Godfather, and no other alignment-switching/target switching roles. This is as sure as a lynch as you can get, and Sonia not claiming or acknowledging that there was NO KILL last night is even more damning. Titus not admitting it and going after Elbirbrin only makes me think she's scum Doctor, although that doesn't matter unless Sonia flips scum and game isn't over.

Regardless, Sonia has to go. There was no NK. Elibrin can wait just as much as you think Sonia can tomorrow. AJ can wait too. Sonia got roleblocked and there was no kill. That's hard evidence and nothing anyone has said has even remotely changed my mind.

Actually, Sonia not claiming solidified it for me. She's scum. Any townie would've claimed there. That's fact.

VOTE: Sonia

[Tywin Lannister]

She's a L1. She has every opportunity to still claim, but after not doing so already, I hope somebody quickhammers and ends this game. Stop wasting my time. The game is over folks.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Elb
W/e I know I'm town so better him then me

Also, Gerry is obv Mason who for some reason can't realize that everyone already knows it. Idk why. His AJ read is just conspiracy theory at this point going against the Sonia roleblock and no NK.

Titus going after Elb and calling the roleblock of Sonia and no NK 'circumstantial evidence' makes me think there ARE 5 scum, and Titus is the 5th. We will know after Sonia flips scum and game is over or not. If not, quicklynch Titus ftw. No sane townie would argue against the Pine roleblock of Sonia and no NK. That's so obvious that only scum would argue otherwise. Titus would want to mislynch Elb, then NK probably Gerry with the 50-50 shot of Pine not blocking her or Sonia. Then they both would try to fool AJ/Pine into lynching me, which is quite possible. That's how scum 'could' win still if there are still two left.

Now, if there's only one scum in Sonia, it's game over anyway, so idk why it isn't just admitted and ended. Due to that, I have a suspicion of 5 scum. It doesn't really matter unless games not over after Sonia flips scum, but it's something to be wary of. Elb isn't scum IMO, and even if he is, Pine blocked Sonia and no NK. There's no other choice.

Also, Sonia didn't claim and pretended to hammer. Any townie would've claimed there. Only scum wouldn't.

[Tywin Lannister]

If I am wrong, yes. I am not though.

In the VC you said I had no need to bus on wouldn't the same thing go for elb also
Like the biggest thing against him was he was a huge counter wagon to Lap at one point

Yes. That's why he'd be bussing.

Why was there no NK last night? You believe Pine blocked Sonia, or you'd call him scum. So you admit Sonia was blocked, but won't admit why there was no NK. You can't be this dense.

Also, why haven't you demanded a claim from either Sonia or Elb? This is crunch time, yet no claim?

Also, why do you think Elb bussed yesterday, yet Sonia couldn't have?

Pretty obvious that Sonia is scum here, so you not admitting it is very, very, very scummy. If the game doesn't end with her scum flip, you know you're next, right?

You've made your play here, and it failed. You can't make a no NK roleblock of Sonia disappear. There's nothing you could've done to change that. It's not an ability or skill thing anymore. It's game mechanics. You can't lie your way out of it.