New York 180 (Endgame)

[goodmorning]

I'm still reading. Went through TSO's ISO and he's def Scum though.

[goodmorning]

Went through it Monday night after class; TSO is the player I'm most familiar with.

[goodmorning]

VOTE: pisskop

For replacing into a scum slot.

This is interesting.


6 Mafia is more likely if it's just one team. 33% is on the high end.

Could be something like 3-3-1 though.

[goodmorning]

If this is genuine, cool, out with it. If this is some sort of snap reaction to misreading me in Masquerade, my tolerance will be 0.

Thanks.

It's nothing to do with Masquerade. I don't assume people are Scum just because they were last time and I'm offended that you think so little of me.

@SilverWolf: If it's NAR then RB resolves before Kill.

p-edit: I think I like this Ellie person.

[goodmorning]

It's nothing to do with Masquerade. I don't assume people are Scum just because they were last time and I'm offended that you think so little of me.

Don't get offended, gm, I think a lot of you, but the fact is your scumread on me seems completely unfounded, as does your immediate confidence in it, and short of Masquerade I can literally find 0 reason why this would at all be the case.

Your ISO is full of brash trumpeting confidence and no actual information.

p-edit: I think I like this Ellie person.

Go ahead and help her back up her accusation if you think that - she's going to need a lot of help doing so.[/quote]
I think I like this person =/= I 100% agree with this person.

I can agree that based on what I've seen of this game you do seem a bit more prone to loving the leading wagon than usual.

P-Edit: There's a mystery going on and I'm gonna solve it.

[goodmorning]

I don't actually see anything on the Wiki saying they can't be informed they were protected in Normals, so even though it's still highly implausible it isn't impossible.

From the Doctor page: "While this is highly frowned upon at mafiascum.net, some moderators will tell players that they were saved from death via a form of protection (i.e. Doctors)."

(Also, these pictures are new AND I DIG THEM)

[goodmorning]

Actually it's the not-getting-a-result-at-all that I find the most implausible part of this story. Usually blocked Cops will get back "No Result" at least.

[goodmorning]

And "No Result" is widely understood to mean "you got blocked" in a Normal.

Because that's what it means.

[goodmorning]

I don't really like this shitfest, it feels like coasting. None of this setup discussion is really alignment-indicative.

I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE GAME TO GET READS

FUCKING START TALKING ABOUT ALIGNMENT-INDICATIVE SHIT AGAIN

[goodmorning]

@ABR: I do, because by and large the viking thing is
A. a foregone conclusion, probably and
B. not interesting.

[goodmorning]

@viking: Did ika send you a PM saying something like "no result" or did he not send you a PM at all?

[goodmorning]

Oh, and who were you trying to investigate again?

[goodmorning]

It was shinobi.

If this is the case then <redacted pending viking response>

[goodmorning]

If he'd said he hadn't got a PM I'd have voted him now. As it is, I think I need to ISO him.

P-EDIT: Given the types of games ika usually runs, who's to say he wouldn't include some random shit like that?

[goodmorning]

also the number of normals isn't really thousands

[goodmorning]

and doesn't the implausibility actually make it less likely he's lying? Surely a lie should be believable, that's the point of lying?

[goodmorning]

I think vikingfan is a town cop and telling the truth, but I am okay with his death and will probably hammer him if he reaches L-1.

He's not a town cop, and if you believed him 100%, you would offer more of a defense than that.

Listen, all of you guys that are from another website, I want you to look at my join date. Then I want you to look at my post count.

I know what I'm talking about. VF is lying, pure and simple, in a provable way. There's no chance that he's telling the truth and the mod drops in here and there to give him some cover, but he's toast, and we need to lynch him today before the scum get any more information about who to kill. We've done our job, we've caught scum, now let's put this one to rest.

I actually hate this.

This is fully 50% of the reason I'm not voting viking now.

[goodmorning]

Listen, all of you guys that are from another website, I want you to look at my join date. Then I want you to look at my post count.

I know what I'm talking about. VF is lying, pure and simple, in a provable way. There's no chance that he's telling the truth

I hate this part the most.

[goodmorning]

This game is making my head hurt.

[goodmorning]

Shinobi is town.

NOBODY ASKED YOUUUUUUUU

[goodmorning]

Now I need to go measure TSO sarcasm levels in previous games.

[goodmorning]

I am sorry if this is overly harsh, but my time is rather precious these days and defending myself needlessly isn't something I particularly plan on doing this game.

Your last few posts are a textbook example of defending yourself needlessly in response to a very small amount of pressure, and make me think I'm onto something

Please explain the below post.

I think vikingfan is a town cop and telling the truth, but I am okay with his death and will probably hammer him if he reaches L-1.

No

Can we discuss this being a genuine scumslip though? Like I cannot see how she could have posted this as town.

I think a townie would probably not have posted 1999.

Probably ABR should be lynched at some point.

NS should probably also be lynched at some point but I'm getting ahead of myself.

@NJ: And why are we doing associatives before flips again?

SARCASM REPORT: Generally, sarcasm-over-time trendline is positive-sloping.

I'm sort of starting to think TSO could be Town actually?

Fuck.

[goodmorning]

@NJ: And why are we doing associatives before flips again?

You don't seem to mind Kitz doing it. Why is that?

To be honest, I'm only skimming her posts because I have a headache and her grammar is weird, but I'm p sure iirc she's based hers around pisskop who has indeed flipped Scum y/y?

Even if that wasn't so, Kitz is newer than you; you ought to know better.

p-edit: I mean, early TSO was pretty insecure/self-deprecating/something like that, words are hard but bravado might just be something he's picked up? idk if it's as relevant as I initially believed it was.

[goodmorning]

If we have then you'd still need to be the alt of a player who can read me pretty well, and these people don't

grow on trees

exist.

FTFY

[goodmorning]

I have posted more content in one day that I have in this entire game, .

I want to lynch you.

SO MUCH.

[goodmorning]

her grammar is weird

Thank you. Better than bad. Some say it's good though, which I find funny.
I dropped out of school super early, so I taught myself english. Being in a non-english country, that's somewhat difficult.

That kicks ass.

but I'm p sure iirc she's based hers around pisskop who has indeed flipped Scum y/y?

You're saying I'm adjusting my grammar to someone else? And that someone else would be a scum mate? Nope.
This is a "what?" thing.

That is quite a stretch, trying to associate someone based on their grammar.

No, I meant your associatives. I'm not trying to associate anyone to anyone right now, I've not read most of the game.

I want to lynch you.

SO MUCH.

Then quit fumbling around like a lettuce and do it.

I don't think that's the appropriate action to take atm but encouragement noted.

the facts are indisputable

The facts are not indisputable; several people wouldn't be disputing them if they were.

I've laid out my arguments and why vf is scum. There doesn't seem to be any more doubts on the matter, as no one is willing to debate it based on facts.

Regardless of whether you trust me or not, the facts are indisputable and lead to vf being scum. You may think that I'm scum with him, but as he's not town, you shouldn't be diverting the conversation or defending him.

Stuff like this makes ABR town.

Really? I kinda hated that post.

The tacit assumption that disagreeing with him meant you were somehow defending viking made me particularly annoyed, as did "indisputable."

[goodmorning]

goodmorning: can I get a quick recap on why you aren't interested in lynching viking?

I find that his claim is plausible and am holding off on deciding whether I believe it or not til I ISO him. I'm not going to want to lynch him if I decide I believe it.

I have a burning question for this town.

Let's pretend for a moment that we accept the premise that you're told when you're protected.

If scum intended to nightkill viking, as he claims, why did they also roleblock him?

it's precisely this that makes his claim unlikely.

not only that to believe his claim we have to either accept three parties attacking one another last night or the idea that we have a doctor that gets killed in place or the target. I've never heard or a doc like that.

There is such a thing but it would flip "Bodyguard."

Why do you think it's unlikely that 2 hypothetical scumteams would gun for/block a claimed investigative in the same night?

vk's claim:

-requires 3 kill attempts last night
-required that someone tried to kill him and someone else tried to RB him
-requires he was told if he was protected
-required he was told that someone tried to kill him.

@Nobody Special/Wake or anyone who has modded Large Normals

Is this a possibility at all?

I've modded a Large Normal and it makes me sad that I've been left out here.

It's possible.

Your first two points are very possible.
Second two unlikely but possible.

@Wake: ABR has retracted his own claim. He meant that he himself is VT, not Tracker as he said before. Nobody scumreads him because he doesn't like VT. If they scumread him for anything involving the phrase "VT" it is his Tracker retraction.

p-edit: WW are totally possible, see masquerade etc

[goodmorning]

wake= confirmed distracted

[goodmorning]

nonconsecutive = every other night

[goodmorning]

I doubt every single role is nonconsecutive, by the by.

[goodmorning]

I doubt every single role is nonconsecutive, by the by.

Troll approved

I'm being serious. If anyone was clever enough to think about it for five seconds they'd understand why.

On another note, NY178 had some Odd-Even, a Fibbonaci or Prime or some such, and some full roles, and NY167 had a full Gunsmith and an Even Gunsmith, and those are just ones I've been involved in. It's not unusual for mixed modifiers to happen.

CAN WE NOT ASSOCIATIVES BEFORE FLIPS

IT IS DAY FUCKING TWO

KTHX

p-edit: Well if anyone from the NRG was going to approve something weird...

[goodmorning]

@Math: It's near the bottom, Minis are allowed 1 role/modifier that isn't explicitly normal and Larges 2, as long as they aren't explicitly non-Normal.

p-edit: that.

[goodmorning]

Speaking of which, that reminded me to check and Non-Consecutive is an explicitly Normal modifier, in case anyone wondered.

[goodmorning]

no thank you math

i don't like random dichotomies

gross

[goodmorning]

From what I get, Non-Consecutive means every 2nd day, right?

What I don't get is this. When is it active? Is it every odd day, or is it every even day?
The main question is, can the Non-Consecutive work out a Night 1 action?

Elaborate? ❤

The PR gets to choose. They can either start N1 and then act N3, 5, and so forth or they can wait and act N2.

I am at the end of page 85, this is fucking ridiculous. Our set-up spec is ridiculous and when

people begin to justify their spec guess by softclaiming

it becomes blatantly anti-town.

Please tell me this stops.

You're my favourite.

RE: Ellie: I'll state for the record that the "I think he might be truthing but I'll vote for him" post doesn't seem impossible to have come from Town but that the post where she refuses to elabourate does.

READING IS FUN

BUT I HAVE HOMEWORK SO I'LL BE BACK MUCH LATER.

[goodmorning]

Shinobi says concerned about letting VF love another day then through no poking/prodding/almost anything abandons that idea without reason to go for cheetory.

I thought you were supposed to be a troll? That sounds reasonable.

[goodmorning]

RE: Ellie: I'll state for the record that the "I think he might be truthing but I'll vote for him" post doesn't seem impossible to have come from Town but that the post where she refuses to elabourate does.

I'm curious about this part - I actually had a very good reason for saying no, but what is your reasoning?

More than anything else, Town can't afford to be opaque.

The reason I am not immediately posting is because my current time in this thread is being spent responding to bogus accusations (ie you). The content will come; whether it's in 4 hours or one hour ago is immaterial.

This reminds me of you vs Csareo. I don't like that.

This game is the stupidest fucking thing ever - I am constantly plagued by the most retarded attacks ever and when I explain just how stupid they are, I am defensive scum.

So does this.

But I'll say to you now what I said then: just ignore it and be productive instead.

[goodmorning]

Is there any official source material that specifically says it is 100% impossible? Or maybe that it's just unlikely? I mean, if it's ambiguous in the rules, then it's about as null of an argument as you can get -- you simply cannot know if vf's telling the truth or not.

To restate, the official source material says nothing against it, which means it's possible. It is, however, reasonably unlikely.

That being said, regardless of whether or not vf got a response, I just don't know that I believe the story. The whole "I got shot, revived, my read roleblocked, and two people actually died last night."

If we assume pisskop used his roleblock on vf, that still means there are three sources of attack at night phase. I'm a noob here, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but are there not only like, 5 ways someone can be killed at night in a normal game? How likely is that?

Let's analyse this assuming he's telling the truth.
Mafia don't want to be investigated, for obvious reasons, so they RB him. Maybe they take a shot at him. More likely they settle for the RB because they assume he'll be protected. We'll guess for the sake of the exercise that they killed Boon.
Now there are several other possible players:
Wolves: maybe shot pisskop. Or maybe they weren't willing to take the chance that the Cop could be Maf-only.
SK: There's no real precedent afaik for Cops finding SKs. However, a good SK strategy is to make the Town implode while you steadily pick off the real threats at Night. Losing a PR would help that along. SK could also have thought he WAS aiming for Scum, see next:
Vig: viking's claim was apparently scummy enough that people didn't trust it, which makes him a reasonable target for an impatient or egoistic Vigilante.
Now, we know at least one of these exists because they shot pisskop (presuming no Bus Drivers, which I'm presuming because I want it to be true). If more exist then viking's claim is possible.

The only thing I agree with is this weird "I read the wrong PM" thing, but it's (in my opinion) much more believable to me that a player (regardless of experience) who just got a little flustered and clicked the wrong role PM, because ABR plays (from what it seems) a lot of games.

Back when I had more time for Mafia, I routinely was in 9 games at once. I think my maximum was 13 simultaneous games. And I never once forgot my role in any of them.

You can make of that what you will, but he's already tried to set himself up as superior to the rest of this playerlist. I wonder.

[goodmorning]

More than anything else, Town can't afford to be opaque.

I think some people are too transparent as town

I think most people aren't transparent enough.

Including me.

A, is there a reason NJ's scummy hammer has totally sailed under the radar? pretty much no one has followed up on it from last night even though the twilight had everyone saying it was mega scummy?

DAMMIT

WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THERE WAS A SCUMMY HAMMER

I COULD HAVE READ SOMETHING INTERESTINGGGGGGGG

Ellie needs to be ignored. She is a troll, pure and simple. Cluttering up the thread with nonsense; like a jester. Don't feed her.

DULL

@TSO: Hey if you actually are town and my scumread on you was paranoia induced then we should talk. Tell me something I should know and who you think I should read first or something.

Assuming VF is town and telling the truth and what he said is true: (which I doubt)

An argument has been that we should see results before lynching.
1) We waited yesterday and scum fucked it up (if VF truth telling).
2) What reason do we think scum would have to not stop his death today?
None.

Therefore I think we face the facts that if VF is town we will more than likely never see a cop result.
Combine that with the rather outlandish claim it just doesn't make sense.

It seems likely that Scum probably don't have another RB, and given that, they'll have to kill him, which means we won't have to burn a lynch on him.

T S O what

[goodmorning]

But - I think ABR would be quite likely to fakeclaim Tracker as town and am reading him as rather solidly town, and I think Ellie's full of shit. MathBlade could be town, but is misguided as hell.

I don't have a problem with him claiming Tracker. I have a problem with the way it was rescinded.

I don't disagree that Math could easily be Town.

[goodmorning]

But - I think ABR would be quite likely to fakeclaim Tracker as town and am reading him as rather solidly town, and I think Ellie's full of shit. MathBlade could be town, but is misguided as hell.

I don't have a problem with him claiming Tracker. I have a problem with the way it was rescinded.

What was your issue there?

"lol whoops i read the wrong pm haha"

Like I said, that's not a mistake I believe. I'd have liked it better if he just went "well I lied."

Now that I think of it, that actually implies stuff which could majorly fuck over ongoing games.

p-edit: @Ellie: Not really indicative.

@Ozgin: Actually there's something of a fad for multiball Large Normals recently, much like the sitewide fad for Neighbours that's pissed off DGB quite thoroughly.

[goodmorning]

In large normals, two mafia factions are more common than a werewolf and a mafia faction.

Says who?

[goodmorning]

@Ozgin: Actually there's something of a fad for multiball Large Normals recently, much like the sitewide fad for Neighbours that's pissed off DGB quite thoroughly.

That's good to know, actually. How do you learn about these site-wide metas like this? Like how do you know these sorts of things?

I'm curious. As a new player to the site, these sorts of things would help me know what's "probably the case" or "likely to be," at least in terms of mechanics.

It helps if people get angry, and it's as much about perception as reality. "Saying something makes it true" in some ways.

Mostly, it's that I do stats threads for the purpose of explaining how much I don't like VCA. I see what roles get flipped. When games are multiball, it's usually Mafia vs WW, followed by Fire vs Ice, followed by A vs B or colour vs different colour.

From, not to.

Vote: Ellie

This is the only acceptable vote for today that isn't vikingfan.

After bitching about viking for pages you just randomly switch votes? Gross. GROSS.

[goodmorning]

Wow. Ellie is literally crazy to keep pushing this viking line of defense. I mean, as either alignment, it's insane. Lynch it with fire.

multiple people disagree with you

you need to stop.

oh jesus christ everything on this last page

fuck that shit


FUCK THAT FUCKING BULLSHIT

I don't disagree with you because your gender is set to "dude." I disagree with you BECAUSE YOU ARE INCORRECT

CHRIST ON A MOTHERFUCKING BICYCLE

fuck.

I can't tell if ABR is going insane.

Yes.

Probably me too, while we're at it.
But I can't help that. We're all mad here.

[goodmorning]

People disagree - how terrible.

It would be far better pointing out WHY people disagree rather than simply pointing out that there is disagreement. Disagreement is a simple fact of this game.

FAQ CONFIRMED NOT READING

[goodmorning]

LET'S HAVE A CAPSLOCK PARTY TO CELEBRATE HOW LITTLE THE PLAYERS IN THIS GAME CARE ABOUT IT


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[goodmorning]

WHAT? MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAVE EXPLAINED THEIR REASONS FOR FINDING VIKING'S CLAIM POSSIBLE AND ABR INSISTS THAT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT ADDING ANYTHING NEW TO THE DISCUSSION?????

O M G

W O W

[goodmorning]

WHAT? ABR GIVES UP HIS TUNNEL TO PUSH ELLIE WHEN ELLIE SAYS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE SCUMREAD HER AND IT LOOKS LIKE HER WAGON WILL TAKE OFF??

WELL THAT'S A BIT HINKY, ACTUALLY, BUT WHAT DOES IT MATTER?

WE'RE HAVING A

CAPSLOCK PARTY

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[goodmorning]

*SCUMREAD HER FOR

WOW

CAPSLOCK IS SO EXCITING IT EVEN FUCKS UP MY GRAMMAR AND NOT ONLY EVERYTHING ELSE WOW

[goodmorning]

I AM JUST THRILLED TO BITS TO BE HAVING THIS CAPSLOCK PARTY ALL BY MY LONESOME WHEN THERE ARE ALMOST TWENTY OTHER PEOPLE ALIVE

WE COULD BE CAPSLOCK COMMISERATING

BUT INSTEAD IT'S A CAPSLOCK PARTY OF ONE

[goodmorning]

oh god guys, kitz is super town

1) Nobody said it was impossible for vf to be lying, not even ABR. The issue is doubt. A lot of us (including myself) are very doubtful of vf's claim, and he hasn't responded to my (that I've noticed) question about what his response PM.

the facts are indisputable

and lead to vf being scum.

VF is lying, pure and simple, in a provable way.

There's no chance

that he's telling the truth

There is no way

that ika would creatively sprinkle a role like that into a normal game.

He has violated basic tenets of mafia normalcy metal and there is a

0% chance that he's town.

Mark my words carefully.

Zero percent.

vikingfan is 100% scum.

Please.

2) Your yelling and capsing and general flaily response isn't necessary.

YES IT IS

CHARACTERISING IT AS FLAILY IS

REALLY WEIRD THOUGH

ABR is town? WOOowowoowW. How did we get here? You yourself have voiced frustration with the pointless vf discussion and whatnot, now you want to townread the guy who gave that shit propellers and made it fly and eclipse the sun?

How very very weird.

Hey look this is a useful thing from NJ what?

I think pks defense of naked is something we all need to consider.

Do you think Scum is obvious about defending their partners?

[goodmorning]

YOU'RE SO VAIN

YOU PROBABLY THINK THAT POST WAS ABOUT YOU

DON'T YOUUUUUUU

p-edit: I actually was going to discuss the concept of wagons with you in a few weeks anyway, but OK.
I don't have any actual stats on counterwagons because I don't collect the unsuccessful, but as far as I can tell, the other wagon being Town only makes the likelihood of NJ being Scum go up fractionally from a statistical POV and not at all generally.

I'll go look that up now actually.

[goodmorning]

Large Normals in particular (all wagons with >1 vote, from lynch to least):
NY178: T-T
NY177: T-T-T
NY176: T-T-T
NY175: T-T
NY174: M-M-T
NY173: M-T
NY172: T-T
NY171: T-T
NY170: T-T-T
NY169: T-M-M

So of the last 10 Large Normals, 7 had only wagons on Town at the end of D1.

P-Edit: When did I say Ellie was Town? I said I didn't think Town would refuse to explain like she did. Just because we both think viking's claim is possible doesn't mean I townread her.

(For the record, I don't scumread the phrase that everyone else scumreads because I've said shit like that as Town. I scumread the post that says "No.")

Goodness gracious. Can we stop taking ABR's version of this game as gospel?

[goodmorning]

And while I understand why the comment about hammering Viking would bother you... I didn't just say 'no' because I have no explanation or wanted to be obstinate. I said 'no' because it would be dumb to answer. That hasn't changed. If you think it through, maybe you can work out the answer for yourself.

If this is the case and that's the only reason you said it, then that's a dumb reason to have said it unless one specific unlikely caveat.

People disagree - how terrible.

It would be far better pointing out WHY people disagree rather than simply pointing out that there is disagreement. Disagreement is a simple fact of this game.

FAQ CONFIRMED NOT READING

Goodmornig confirmed lack of reading comprehension.

Again, pointing out that others have said they disagree is meaningless because we have all see the posts. Reiterating why you agree with the case moves the game forward. Asinine statements like the above just make you look like scum.

Try again.

People have repeatedly pointed out why they disagree with ABR, often with different reasoning, and if you haven't seen it then you are, indeed, confirmed not reading.

I think pks defense of naked is something we all need to consider.

Do you think Scum is obvious about defending their partners?

They can be on day one when they think there is no chance of being dead.

From what I understand, pisskop was being scumread by a fair number of people, and he'd know that in a game this size it's almost a given that there's more than one killing faction/role.
Even if not, NJ is also being scumread by some folks, and both of them were not going to make it more than a couple days. Why tie themselves together needlessly?

Scum are more likely to WK.

She spotted the doctor because she was looking for him during the night.

I want to address this because I didn't before: why would any Scum/3p trying to survive DELIBERATELY POINT OUT A CRUMB FROM THE DEAD DOC?

Most likely there are two scum factions plus an sk? Is that the general belief about the setup?

I don't think we really have enough info to make this call at present.

FTR I'm not ignoring you because I have problems with you, because I don't. I'm ignoring you because I think I might have difficulty reading you.

Ok, ISOing because there's no effing way I can reread the entire thread like I hoped. Somehow my scum reads are voting my other scum reads which doesn't quite make sense so just focusing on ISO.

I'd advise you not to worry so much about who's voting for whom; I do VC stats and there's no real rhyme or reason to them.

I assume more then one scum on this wagon.

I wish you wouldn't.

You know what they say when you assume.

[goodmorning]

No, it's not WIFOM, it's a deliberate attempt to point out that

there are no Scum motivations

for pointing out that she saw the Doc crumb.

[goodmorning]

And as we all know, the reasons people do things are the best way to read them.

[goodmorning]

Or maybe she did it because she thought it would give her town points? See, it's WIFOM.

That's incredibly unlikely. You in particular are being super flat in your interpretations of things. It's almost like you think Scum are stupid or something.

All we know is that she knew, which is not WIFOM. She's one of the players who was looking out for it, when a bunch of players didn't.

Do we actually know when she knew?

GM, you're ignoring me? Did I ask you something? I'm wary of reading you either way so cloudy with a chance.

No, just ignoring your slot in general. I mean, if you ask questions and shit I'll answer them, I just don't think I can read you so I'm not going to try. At least, not yet. I may have to if this game lasts and so do we.

Does anyone have actual scum cases or reads?

Doubtful.

@NJ/Aero: Meh. It's not impossible for Mafia to Block and Kill the same person on the same Night. Slightly less likely than multifaction, but not impossible.
If they couldn't think of anyone else they wanted to kill, they might have tried, but thinking he would probably be protected anyway, blocked him too, just in case.

Anyway the speculation is getting dull.

For the record: I plan to play this game in the manner I usually play as confTown: either sloppy and ridiculous or lurky and tunneling.

[goodmorning]

roleblock + NK works with veterans only.

Does pisskop not count as one?

For the record: I plan to play this game in the manner I usually play as confTown: either sloppy and ridiculous or lurky and tunneling.

Why would you say this?

Because that's how I'm going to play it, and if anyone wants to whinge about how annoying it is I'd like to be able to say "I told you so."

Vote: ABR

I think.

TSO is bothering me again.

both town and cop, which can only be beneficial to the town.

Now I feel jaded.

That's a really optimistic view at best.

This game's pace is ridiculously fast and it's really noisy and there are a lot of really ridiculous claims and other bullshit going on.

TRUTH

I don't know where a good foothold to get back into the game would be.

As far as I can tell, there isn't one.

GM, you're ignoring me? Did I ask you something? I'm wary of reading you either way so cloudy with a chance.

No, just ignoring your slot in general. I mean, if you ask questions and shit I'll answer them, I just don't think I can read you so I'm not going to try. At least, not yet. I may have to if this game lasts and so do we.

Buddying noted.

Continued lack of content equally noted.

[goodmorning]

I think this is a bit of a stretch, though. I mean, you can say this about anyone.

I'm saying this because there's a high chance he's scum, and people want to keep him alive without understanding the potential importance and urgency of lynching scum.

And I'm saying THIS because there's an equally high chance he's Town, and people want to see him dead without understanding the potential importance and urgency of just one result (even if he's lying).

Who here has played extensively with Boon? whoever has is on my suspectlist due to experience reading him. I for one would not have picked that up as a softclaim.

I've played a game or two with him. He's pretty random.

after we've mislynched on D2

hate this

(because the scum pool is narrow and less accurate

hate this more

I've elaborated time and again about why with very good reasoning.

hate this the most

Wake, I need your assistance in this game, there's too many stubborn town fighting me on top of the scum. We're not friends, but I need your help.

Why am I the only person NS wants to accuse of buddying? This is some bullshit.

"oh no, the misguided townies, stroke my ego somebody please"

4. Why is there so much resistance to your wagon when generally that is a sign of scum?

I disagree that this is an actual thing.

I have little knowledge of what's going on, or who all these new players are and who they replaced.

I replaced Grib. I don't think anyone else has replaced since I did, so if you're behind that then I can't help you.

[goodmorning]

When the fuck did Large Normals become such a breeding ground for pointless drama? It never used to be this way. Makes me sick.

SO USEFUL

MUCH WOW

Forming a town block is a good thing.

Eh, maybe, maybe not.

Wake me up when we have something important to talk about.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE HIDING UTR

WHY

NS, what are your reads?

vikingfan needs to die. The rest can be discussed tomorrow.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

TSO is supremely frustrated, like I am, and therefore most-probably town.

TSO is always frustrated.

ABR's conviction with the vf case and his offering himself as a quick next-day lynch doesn't seem like something a scum would say. I just struggle to think ABR is scum when he does things like this.

Sure it does, because he's experienced enough to know that there's no way it would actually happen.

[goodmorning]

ABR, if VF flips town cop are you willing to be the quick lynch next day? I don't mean like arbitrary "saying it for the sake of saying it," I mean really since you seem 100% sure and unless you were town cop or actually a PR you're insistence is to be believed why.

Also, your meta is that you are ruthless, manipulative and will say anything which is what I remember from the first game so pot kettle. And you tried to kill me town too.

I hate these questions because they are ignorant.

I don't see a good reason to lead a lynch simply because someone had a bad read - EVERYONE has bad reads. You lynch because they are anti-town. If you think he is anti-town then his answer is rather meaningless.


Would you really expect scum to say no to this question? Would you really expect scum or town to not fight their lynch the next day when the flip was wrong? Would you expect town to say no to this?

Then what is the point of the question?

PEdit: STOP ADDING PAGES for one second. This is the FIFTH time I have tried to post this

Whoa. I actually agree with this.

There are many people here inexperienced at mafia. Fret not, for I am here to guide them to a scum lynch. A vote for vikingfan for the cause.

gross

It's pretty likely that ABR is just scum trying to lead a lynch on a claimed cop, to be honest. I'm not planning on sailing on the ship today.

Aeronaut: bluntly saying what literally everyone has implied before.

It's pretty likely that ABR is just scum trying to lead a lynch on a claimed cop, to be honest. I'm not planning on sailing on the ship today.

Explain the lie of vf that "he was told the doc protected him" with a doc that didn't flip loud.

This is seriously the angle you're going with?

Ellie is a serial killer who killed boons.

In this scenario, who did scum shoot?

I knew I liked you.

LOOK OUT NS I JUST BUDDIED ELLIE

[goodmorning]

I'm exhausted arguing with newbes like goodmorning.

I'm the real cop. Vf is fakeclaiming.

I investigated Ellie and she is also scum. She is guilty.

I claimed the way I did to remain alive and break the game

There you go. Scum on a silver platter.

Ask me anything.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[goodmorning]

goodmorning catch up fast and tell me whether I need to explain why ABR is lying please

To me? No. To Aero? Maybe.

[goodmorning]

Just to break down my approximate reactions while reading this post:

I'm exhausted arguing with newbes like goodmorning.

lolololololololololololololololololololk

I'm the real cop. Vf is fakeclaiming.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOMG

I investigated Ellie and she is also scum. She is guilty.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

I claimed the way I did to remain alive and break the game

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

There you go. Scum on a silver platter.

Indeed.

[goodmorning]

Seriously, shut your mouth, put your vote on viking, and if we are both alive tomorrow we will discuss our fates.

This is literally the dumbest thing I've ever read in a mafia game.

Your cc has less credibility than Cabd claiming Mason.

[goodmorning]

This game is such a goddamned hot mess.

p-edit:

brb,

absolutely dying of laughter

[goodmorning]

Could be. I kinda believe viking though.

[goodmorning]

I knew I wanted to lynch ABR.

This is fun.

[goodmorning]

ABR, on a scale of "not at all" to "lol this was all a gambit jk," how willing are you to be lynched to prove vf & I are mafia?

I am not willing to be lynched today. Tomorrow? I doubt I'll live to tomorrow.

Well, if we lynch you and you're telling the truth, that confirms two scum...

I feel like as a PR, getting us two guilties is pretty great.

THIS

CAN YOU FEEEEELLLL THE LOGIC TONIGGHHHTTTTTT

[goodmorning]

Please confirm, gambit or not a gambit?

Fine it's a gambit. I investigated shinobi and he's town.

I know you're scum too though.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

O M G

No, we're not going to lynch me over vikingfan who everyone has allowed to live through a garbage fakeclaim.

garbage fakeclaim.

garbage fakeclaim.

How about three of them?

I say we go for viking first, ABR is more entertaining than viking.

g r o s s

[goodmorning]

abr if you're lying there is no way you can survive tomorrow with a vikingfan townflip

you need to retract your claim now if it's a lie.

I thought better of you TSO. :[

[goodmorning]

abr if you're lying there is no way you can survive tomorrow with a vikingfan townflip

you need to retract your claim now if it's a lie.

I thought better of you TSO. :[

ABR is so blatantly town, gm.

He really isn't, TSO.

If he was, he wouldn't keep lying and lying and lying.

Fakeclaiming twice as scum? No.

Why not? He's on a massive egotrip this game, I think it's safe to say he'd think he'd be believed.

p-edit: Well it's not like he'd pick someone he said was Scum today to be his townclear, would he? Jesus, TSO, he's a liar, not an idiot.

[goodmorning]

I don't know why we're putting any emphasis on Boon's reads. He's a lovely person but from what I've seen of him he doesn't scumhunt like [names withheld to prevent egostroking].

p-edit: Why would he lie as Town? That's shitty behaviour at the very best.

[goodmorning]

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE TIER

THERE ARE MULTIPLE KILLERS AS WE ALREADY KNOW

[goodmorning]

p-edit: Why would he lie as Town? That's shitty behaviour at the very best.

Yes, and Town are just as likely to perform shitty behaviour as scum, if not more so.

Look, he's not scum because he's gross, he's scum because he's unbelievable.

[goodmorning]

Shinobi really doesn't make sense as an investigative target the more I think about it.

If he was going for a scumread he'd have gone Ellie.
If he was going for a lurker he'd have gone NS.

I don't believe ABR would investigate Shinobi.
I do think Shinobi looks like someone safe to claim is Town.

[goodmorning]

viking isn't you, ABR.

[goodmorning]

Also, he said "Shinobi is Town" in post 1994.

The day started in post 1872.

He posted 21 posts before "crumbing" Shinobi-Town. Which was around the time when several of us maid it clear we weren't interested in a straight-up railroad of viking.

p-edit: AM I ALSO SCUM FOR DEFENDING VIKING ABR???

[goodmorning]

"maid" wasn't autocorrect, I literally typed that what???

[goodmorning]

before we have to quarantine dozens of pages of this thread due to unreadability.

TOO LATE

Why would you want to lynch viking first given how weak ABR's claim is and how little sense TSO is making over it?

[goodmorning]

before we have to quarantine dozens of pages of this thread due to unreadability.

TOO LATE

Why would you want to lynch viking first given how weak ABR's claim is and how little sense TSO is making over it?

Because it's nothing compared to how ridiculous viking's fuckup of a claim is.

viking's is infinitely more believable.

Have you ever seen a setup with town powerroles where one PR was every-night and the other powerrole was split between even/odd?

Yes. I designed one actually.

Setup was 2 Gunsmiths, one Full, one Even-Night.

[goodmorning]

two nonconsecutive doctors

wait, what?

[goodmorning]

Have you ever seen a setup with town powerroles where one PR was every-night and the other powerrole was split between even/odd?

Yes. I designed one actually.

Setup was 2 Gunsmiths, one Full, one Even-Night.

Link.
Funnily enough, ika and Titus were both in it. So was TSO.

[goodmorning]

oh no

oh god no

what??

[goodmorning]

read the last page

I have. What about it?

[goodmorning]

Lynch viking. His claim that a doctor protected him doesn't even make any sense.

It makes enough sense.

Two cops in one setup is impossible in a normal game.

No, it isn't. That two-GS setup I mentioned a couple posts ago was a Large Normal.

Vf is 100% lying.

No, you are.

[goodmorning]

1) if i died, vf would be instalynched

Why would this have been the case?

[goodmorning]

Goodmorning you are a ditzy noob who doesnt know left from right. Gunsmith =\ cop.

Gunsmiths are almost as good as Cops and almost the same thing.

Fuck off.

[goodmorning]

My flip proves vikingfan is lying you lettuce.

No it doesn't, because you wouldn't have flipped Cop and why did you think you'd die if you were doing it as a survival tactic?

[goodmorning]

Have you ever seen a setup with town powerroles where one PR was every-night and the other powerrole was split between even/odd?

Yes. I designed one actually.

Setup was 2 Gunsmiths, one Full, one Even-Night.

Link.
Funnily enough, ika and Titus were both in it. So was TSO.

So was I

:/

Yes, but you didn't die in it.

[goodmorning]

You're a badly washed piece of lettuce if you believe that gunsmith = cop. Ever heard of a vig?

Ever heard of a Miller?

[goodmorning]

God, I wish House or Wake or even a dark horse would come and clear away the fires lit by ABR.

Wake's not gonna do shit about ABR, ABR did that ego thing.

[goodmorning]

If you're talking about NS...

[goodmorning]

yeeep

Well too late then.

I'm ignoring the unwashed vegetable from now on so I can concentrate on the game and not the mutual respect we have for each other.

Goodmorning ^

My fellow member of the mutual admiration society.

I TOTALLY COULD NOT FIGURE THAT OUT FROM CONTEXT CLUES

WOW, IT SEEMS SO OBVIOUS IN HINDSIGHT

p-edit: If I get it then that's a weird role. If I don't then that's a weird clue.

[goodmorning]

im a cop

well i'm a fibbonaci cop and i got TWO INVESTRIGATION NIGHT ONE

HA

[goodmorning]

I MIGHT AS WELL USING ALL CAPS AND SCREAM FROM THE ROOFTOPS.

WELCOME TO THE CAPSLOCK PARTY

[goodmorning]

im a cop

well i'm a fibbonaci cop and i got TWO INVESTRIGATION NIGHT ONE

HA

it was me and vikingfan and you got cop 'n cop

OMG HOW DID YOU KNOW


p-edit: COP COP COP COP COP COP

[goodmorning]

We are actually catastrophically fucked

I feel like these are true words for people of every alignment in this game right now.

p-edit: COP COP COP


COP COP COP

[goodmorning]

Let's stop with the dicking-around and go back to the serious style of game. I want you guys to start focusing on the game like proper adults.
Thank you.

I need somebody SEEEEEERIOUSSSSSS

SOMEBODY CLASSY AND NOT TOO TACKY

p-edit: opc opc opc

[goodmorning]

Some one tell me who to vote for..................GO!!

ABR.

What the fuck happened that there are twelve new pages.

This game turned FUN!

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE TIER

THERE ARE MULTIPLE KILLERS AS WE ALREADY KNOW

Who is Tier? I mean, who are you addressing here?

TSO. I sometimes get their names mixed up.

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask does your country even opc

My country has been known to occasionally run with a bad crowd

usually they ocp though

Mmm veggies. I'm hungry.

... You've all lost your minds...

WE'RE
ALL
MAD
HERE

@NS: So what do you think now that ABR and viking have both claimed Non-Consec Cop?

THAT PUN


THAT PUN


OMG

Poor wake...

Dude's gonna have a cop when he comes back here and see's this.

FTFY

[goodmorning]

FOR KITZ:

Spoiler: LESS OF A MARILYN, MORE OF A JACKIE

Mathblade - I don't have any concrete read. Slight lean Town.
Kitz - Town
Naked jogger - No idea.
Shinobi - No idea.
Nobody special - Thought was Scum but now lean Town.
dragonspawn - Could be Scum.
SilverWolf - Haven't tried to read her yet. Probably will figure her out when she's off VLA.
elusive - Haven't tried to read, won't for a while. Vague townfeels but I don't really trust them.
Wake88 - No idea.
Aeronaut - No idea. Vague lean Town.
Ozgin - Slight lean Town.
T S O - Thought was Scum, thought was Town, leant Scum again, now totally unsure.
Cheetory6 - Lean Town.
Ellie - Thought was Town, thought was Scum, now Town.
ABR - Scum.
FA_Q2 - Could be Scum or could just be polar opposite playstyle.
vikingfan - Town, possibly.

p-edit: OPEC OPEC OPEC

...wait

[goodmorning]

I feel I'm causing chaos towards reads on me and my god is it refreshing

You really are.

[goodmorning]

Was thinking more the one where the bottle hits the cameraman if we're talking soda disaster feels, BUT YES

[goodmorning]

Not flying out the window.

Just flying towards a dude's face.

[goodmorning]

Tracker's super weak.

[goodmorning]

I'm a far better respected player than Titus and have many more victories and successful plans carried out than her.

I find this very difficult to believe.

Perhaps I'll ask [name withheld].

I feel tired now.

[goodmorning]

I am so surprised! Are you surprised? I'm surprised.

@Everyone who voted viking yesterday instead of ABR: I assume you know the means of your own salvation?

@Aeronaut: We're bros, bro.

@Kitz: You're incredibly Town. Never change.

[goodmorning]

ABR is being lynched today, and he won't flip Town - but if he does he'll become the only person currently on my blacklist and the third person ever to join it.

Cop gambits are the shittiest possible thing. I've seen one person pull a Cop gambit before, but you know what? They had the decency to be apologetic about it. They learned from it. I can deal with people rubbing me the wrong way. I can deal with people doing stupid things if they take it as a learning experience or were honestly mistaken. I can't deal with massive egos.

So it's the best possible situation. Either he's Scum who needs lynching, or he's Town who needs lynching.

(P.S. TSO looks like he's Scum theatre-ing a bit) (just saying) (today doesn't make me feel ok about tso)

[goodmorning]

I'm definitely going to hold being right about viking over the head of anyone on the viking wagon in our next game together, by the way.

While I have trouble dealing with massive egos, I may be in possession of one on occasion.

[goodmorning]

Anybody who pays attention to self-meta is pretty silly.
Anybody who thinks a gambit makes someone Town is even sillier.

[goodmorning]

Shinobi is not town cleared. No one is.

Come to think of it I should probably mention that Shinobi's post to open the day made me feel mild suspicions.

[goodmorning]

I leave one day and you rush a lynch. Wake what the heck was that hammer?

I cannot believe vf was telling the truth. That story was bs.

and Ellie was the deputy? WTH! How does her flipping that make us less likely to lynch elusive when she couldn't investigate till vf was dead and had no way of clearing elusive. Those crumbs were absolutely stupid. Is this town a bunch of morons?

we should be looking at abr and wake today imho

This post is infinitely worse than Shinobi's.

I'm definitely going to hold being right about viking over the head of anyone on the viking wagon in our next game together, by the way.

While I have trouble dealing with massive egos, I may be in possession of one on occasion.

you probably shouldn't. The scum knew Viking wasn't scum.

Are you suggesting that the entire viking lynchwagon is Scum? Also, they wouldn't necessarily be in possession of that info if it's true multiball.

@Math: If you're suggesting that claiming he knew he was protected is unbelievable on this site, how do you explain the fact that I believed it?
I have never once played a forum game in which that occurred.

No, his story was not BS. Everyone who said it was BS was lying because even in the most basic form of mafia in Town of Salem the person who survives a murder attempt knows it so why the fuck would this game be any different?

Do you have any original ideas?

Where is your vote?

I haven't decides my vote. But Vikings claim was that he was attacked and saved when two other people were killed and he was role blocked is bs.

if it wasn't bs there is no way over half the people in the game would have lynched him.

It's really weird then that he apparently was telling the truth.

[goodmorning]

Vikings claim

was that he was attacked and saved when two other people were killed and he was role blocked

is bs

.

Actually, ABR does make a good point -

vikingfan was presumably telling the truth

, so either it's multiball + SK, or Mafia/SK/Vig.

More likely the latter.

I tend to agree

though it is possible everyone just targeted ellie

Is this weird or am I just making it weird?

[goodmorning]

Not saying unbelievable -- Saying unlikely to be believed because of meta. If you understood take your troll pat on the back.

I have a few things I could say to this but I don't think I can phrase them in a way that won't be antagonistic so I'll leave it.

Dragonspawn, where is your vote? Why isn't it on ABR?

vote abr

if anything holds true in this game he is probably town.

This series of events is intensely interesting.

good morning is definitely pinging me today. Rubbing in that he knew Viking was not scum.

I did indeed.

Something only scum would know.

Well, that's debatable. Ellie didn't think viking was Scum either, and she's already flipped Town so that proves it's possible at any rate.

Then becoming more aggressive to me when I point that out.

No, I got aggressive when you started trying to justify your vote on the viking lynch by referring to his claims as "bullshit."
I'm pretty sure this is the first time you've mentioned me in that context.

good morning is so scum gloating right now.

You're right about one of those things.

but I can deal with him tomorrow

I'm a lady, dammittttt

gm can you explain your read on me because I don't understand its fluctuations and I'm not sure if I'm letting you use it as a barrier to hide behind.

To be honest I don't really understand it either. A healthy dose of it is probably paranoia.

I think scum would be cautious enough like NakedJogger to not be on that wagon that kills the claimed cop.

Not necessarily. Mislynching a claimed PR can be difficult. When it's a Cop going down, Scum often need to give the wagon an extra little push.

Of course GM and I have been wrong in games before, we know this too intimately be true. In this game, however my instincts have been pretty good.

You can certainly say that again.

However, I suggest that you move the game forward instead of engaging in theatrics at this point.

What do you think the first two posts of yours in this game was anyway? OR GM's first few posts?

My first few posts were theatrics? That's news to me.

[goodmorning]

I'm actually not at all interested in a Math wagon.

[goodmorning]

@Math: You could troll with better grammar, you know.

I'm at a loss to figure out how though.

@elusive: No. ABR is today's lynch. I don't understand your desire for a Math wagon and letting ABR go is dangerous.

[goodmorning]

dammit

i should have quickhammered him while i had the chance

fucking what

[goodmorning]

Can't you just rick roll people or something?

[goodmorning]

GM, if we don't lynch ABR then who's next on the list? I propose Wake.

If we don't lynch ABR, we should lynch ABR.

Seriously.

(If I had to choose someone else Wake would be a reasonable one, but still.)

Can't you just rick roll people or something?

Troll says rick rolling not as beneficial. Troll says she is town while annoying.

Troll says anyone else better with troll card. Troll tries

What about only trolling the people you think are Scum?

[goodmorning]

Oooo are we doing gimmick posting?
I've got an idea for my gimmick: I'll be annoyed that I'm in this game and every post will reflect that.
This is fun.
-.-

Orrrr you could try and make the game less annoying to you??

Wake should start doing things to get people off his case. The quickhammer makes me feel like he's more likely to be town, especially since I'm pretty sure ABR is scum and it'd be batshit insane for both of them to pull that much risky dumbassery on the same day cycle if they were scummates.

Orrrrrrr it could be multiball?

[goodmorning]

What motivations or reasoning do you see in ABR getting VF killed in such a flashy way?

With not just people who were being scumread (Ellie) but also people who weren't (me) believing viking, there was a chance he'd make it to the Night, and Scum have no guarantee of being able to kill him - anything could happen (roleblocks, another protector, bus drive, other things I can't think of) to keep him alive and with a possible result. Lynching, on the other hand...

For people who want reads: mine haven't really changed since 2944.
I'm looking forward to seeing everyone else's.

Orrrr you could try and make the game less annoying to you??

We've had like ten thousand claims this game already and it's only D3, Math has turned into a troll orc creature, a bunch of people were being outrageously toxic last cycle, ABR did hilariously silly scumcounterclaim antics, Naked is scratching his itchy balls, you were spewing all caps D2 and the pace of this game is way faster than it deserves to be. Sorry if I'm a little pissy, but I think I'm a little justified in my annoyance here.

CAPSLOCK 5EVA

Claims are pretty irritating. Seriously, though, why don't you try being as the rock in the stream or some shit like that?

Orrrrrrr it could be multiball?

I'll worry about if it's multifaction once there's any kind of direct evidence that it's multifaction. It's possible that there's a serial killer in this game, but I don't think quickhammering or CCing the cop is something that a serial killer would risk.

You mean direct evidence like viking's claim that he was shot and saved? I mean, it could be 6-1-V, I guess.

I'm not worrying about that kind of stuff because this game is Normal.

Large Normal games are allowed 2 Roles/Modifiers that are not explicitly Normal.

[goodmorning]

SW, I don't see you fulfilling your town meta in this game SilverWolf and also your annoyance has no worth to me since there is no reason for it. Nonsensical nonsense.
GM, don't get involved with SW's nonsense. It's become on par for the course.

Excuse me. Do I know you? You have no right to talk to me like this. You should of asked me why I was annoyed. Could be you said over half the game should be killed in your opening posts or that mathblade is filling up this game with garbage or that yesterday was a complete and total waste of a day and that this one looks no better. Perhaps you should learn to think first before you spout off your BS and post it here.

Kitz is fucking off limits because Ellie was sure on her and at this point in the game I trust Ellie's reads above anyone else's.

Did you go back and look at her reads besides Kitz and see who she was scumreading and who she was townreading? That might be a better use of your time then telling me my words are nonsense. Stop diving town right now.

This is much more aggressive than the SilverWolf I recall.

I think I need some reading.

[goodmorning]

Seriously, though, why don't you try being as the rock in the stream or some shit like that?

I don't know what this means.

I dunno, something like just because some people are making noise doesn't mean you have to be as hyper-active?

You mean direct evidence like viking's claim that he was shot and saved? I mean, it could be 6-1-V, I guess.

I think I'm just kind of hoping that this game isn't multifaction because I've been playing too many games with two scumfactions lately and it makes reading people fucking hard. I'd prefer to operate on the assumption that I'm not going to have to deal with scum who can legitimately try and scumhunt for now for the sake of my own sanity.

Fair enough.

Large Normal games are allowed 2 Roles/Modifiers that are not explicitly Normal.

They can't make the game bastard or anything though. I seriously doubt ika put in something like a reviver or a jester.

Well, Jesters are explicitly non-Normal and therefore not allowed, but a Reviver would be allowed.

[goodmorning]

Allowed =/= totally in this game, guys, srsly

[goodmorning]

dragonspawn insignificant town

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Allowed =/= totally in this game, guys, srsly

Well to be fair, it was brought up. If it can't be here, then don't bring it up.

I think you'll find that Cheetory brought it up as something that wouldn't be allowed in a Normal. I pointed out that it would be allowed in a Normal. That's pretty much that.

[goodmorning]

To be honest I don't really understand it either. A healthy dose of it is probably paranoia.

Well, could you try? Because in your rush to try to figure me out I've began to realise I haven't really figured you out.

I'm not in that much of a hurry to read you.

Anyway, lynch me if you have to. I tracked Mathblade to Ellie last night.

AHAHAHAHAHA

this game

For those of you who would like to blame me for ruining this game, take some responsibility. You bandwagoned the cop on Day 1 and forced him to claim. Then you bandwagoned the tracker and forced him to claim. Then you did it again on Day 2. Even then we would still have a cop but Ellie outted herself for bad reasons.

I may take a larger share of the blame, yes, but instead of being salty, think of what you could have done differently instead of hanging me out to dry. You are also responsible.

I didn't actually do any of those things, though I suppose Grib might have.

I don't think anyone ran up a Tracker.

I don't really care.

I hate some members of this town, like good morning.

I don't hate you.

Even if you did call me a lettuce and lead a Cop lynch.

Hate's a strong emotion.

well the good news is

either

abr

or mb

is scum

FTFY

town BP's have modifiers. It only makes sense if you are an SK. Otherwise, it's too powerful.

Acryon didn't seem to be under any kind of post restriction.

I would like input from those who have modded or know something about Large Normals.

I don't necessarily agree. I mean, I put a 2-Shot BP in a Micro once, I could see full BP Town in a Large. It's the scale of the thing.

[goodmorning]

Ozgin replaces house

[goodmorning]

I didn't even READ Day 1 and I knew that.

Why is this even a question???

[goodmorning]

goddamn it gm stop procrastinating

What do you mean??

[goodmorning]

I'm not in that much of a hurry to read you.

I'M DANGEROUS GM
I'M DANGEROUS

YOU ARE NOT EVEN AS DANGEROUS AS A PALM TREE

[goodmorning]

I HAVE WON GAMES
IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE
IT MAY EVEN HAPPEN AGAIN

THEN IT SEEMS LIKE MY BEST BET IS JUST HOPING YOU'RE TOWN OR SOMETHING

[goodmorning]

Actually I have a real question: What do you think of dragon?

[goodmorning]

From what I've seen of him over the last few pages, scummy? Some of his reversals in stances make no sense, but I know I can do that as town too. It's more that they seem influenced by pressure, and he doesn't seem so weak as to have to give in as town under pressure, so I don't see why town-dragon would do it.

Looking back at the D1 VCs there was a short-lived wagon on him. What killed it?

it also signposts to scum exactly who to shoot

Scum already know who to shoot tho

I don't hate you.

You wouldn't hate me if you were scum.

I don't hate you regardless.

[goodmorning]

Scum already know who to shoot tho

Hypothetical question :

ABR is lynched.
Who's next?

For lynching?
Depends. I personally would like dragon, but I suspect that Wake would go down a bit better. FAQ and Ozgin are on my list of ??? as well.

Wake would likely be a bit cleared if ABR flipped Town though. If he flipped Tracker, Math.

do they though gm?

Probably.

If I were Scum I'd have enough info to carry out any one of several strategies.

I'm assuming they're not complete idiots.

See, this is why I think ABR is town! But what you did was SO BAD that it's splitting town down the middle!

I'm p sure everyone agrees it was p terrible.

Why is almost everyone on your list a scumread?

He's got like 5.5 out of what, 17? 18?

That's about how many Scum there are likely to be.

[goodmorning]

Well, you never know.

I did dislike your play when I said it, though. Any ideas why?

Are you asking me?

You said you disliked my play?

I don't remember this happening.

[goodmorning]

I meant FAQ, gm.

I WAS GOING TO SAY.

Why is almost everyone on your list a scumread?

He's got like 5.5 out of what, 17? 18?

That's about how many Scum there are likely to be.

Hi Aero,

Did you just change your name to goodmorning?

Since goodmorning is currently trying to read you and that question is both non-essential and odd, no.

If this town can't lynch claimed scum it deserves to lose.

I CLAIM I AM A SCUMFUCK!

oh god don't take me back to RAGE

RAGE

[goodmorning]

But I may actually of had a reason for asking Aero that question......................................how do you know it was non-essential and odd to me.

I knew it was non-essential because it was based on a false premise, and I felt that it was odd because it was based on a false premise.

I might of wanted further clarification on his reads since just about everyone is null or scum and his FA townread/considering he says FA is under the radar seemed weird to me.

Then surely you would ask him to clarify his reads, rather than asking why he had so many scumreads, since the answer to the latter would surely be "I don't."

[goodmorning]

But I may actually of had a reason for asking Aero that question......................................how do you know it was non-essential and odd to me.

I knew it was non-essential because it was based on a false premise, and I felt that it was odd because it was based on a false premise.

I might of wanted further clarification on his reads since just about everyone is null or scum and his FA townread/considering he says FA is under the radar seemed weird to me.

Then surely you would ask him to clarify his reads, rather than asking why he had so many scumreads, since the answer to the latter would surely be "I don't."

How do you know I wouldn't of asked him to clarify? The problem with this line of questioning GM, is you don't know where I was going with it because you interfered and answered for him. All his answers are a direct result of things you said.

I was opening up a discussion on his reads specifically to get him to talk to me about them. I would of appreciated you let him answer and saw where I was going with it before interfering and answering for him. If you would of had a problem with the way I approached it, then you can ask me about it after I'm done talking to Aero.

How would his answering "I don't have a billion scumreads" have helped you understand the reasons for his reads?
This doesn;t make sense.

If you want someone to qualify their reads, you don't ask them questions about quantity.

Anyway, I got the answers I needed.

Thanks

What answers have you gotten?

Because I did not elaborate on FA, yet. And that's what you asked me. So in reality, you've gotten no answers, you just sort of want to end this before you make too much of a scene?

I was going to say thisss

no fairrrr

One of the real problems I see with this is it looks like GM is doing some serious buddying in this game. Most noteably to Aero and Kitz but also to a lesser extent to mathblade and this is something I'm going to take note of in my read on GM. I do not like it.

I probably would have started out buddying you too if you'd been off V/LA when I replaced in.

I like the people I've played with in the past. I enjoy playing with them again. And I've said already that I'm not going to self-censor this game:

For the record: I plan to play this game in the manner I usually play as confTown: either sloppy and ridiculous or lurky and tunneling.

Now, Kitz is a different matter; I've never played with Kitz before. But if having a strong townread on someone and saying so is buddying, then I'd better go back to N1520 and get lynched after Adrien.

It really bothers me that you're resorting to busy buzzy bumblebees here.

[goodmorning]

And GM, I tried to answer you point by point but screw quote striping.

I mess it up all the time, but I guess I just enjoy the feeling I get when I don't.

What does that busy bumblebee line mean?

Well, I was crumbing to Mala that I felt you were falling back too heavily on buzzwords but Mala's not in this game so idk what I was thinking.

[goodmorning]

GM-If anything I screw up my buzzwords more than anything. I think I need to go refresh my wiki definitions of some of these things to prevent that.

BUT, I've been accused of buddying when I've been town just being friendly before and also been the victim of some serious scum buddying/manipulation that has worked super well on me so I'm just paranoid and wary of it no matter what.

I welcome friendliness, that's what makes these games fun, but it might take me a minute to distinguish the motivation behind it due to past bad experiences with it.

I don't really have a problem with you having a problem with it.

[goodmorning]

when does this game start making sense

It doesn't.

if MathBlade is Vengeful then why did ABR track her to Ellie? How has Math concluded that ABR has gone from 100% scum to town?

I was assuming sarcasm.

He lied about being Cop, too, and cost us our Cop.

It takes a village.

[goodmorning]

Oh, @Wake: Can you tell me what your reads are at present?

[goodmorning]

Oh. I suddenly think maybe I get it?

If Math is what I think then we should lynch ABR.

[goodmorning]

Well, I'm not going to share it because if I'm right there's a very good reason not to share it and if I'm wrong it'll make me look stupid, which is not conducive to the ego I'm trying to build up here.

[goodmorning]

Good idea.

[goodmorning]

He isn't a Tracker though.

[goodmorning]

No, look, seriously.

With a Full Cop and a Full Deputy, a Tracker wouldn't exist in a game this size.

[goodmorning]

I could see three investigatives in a game this size, just not if two of them are cop and deputy.

[goodmorning]

You mean how VF couldn't be told he was protected because it was against site meta?

Three investigative roles are against site meta?

Are we really going to go against site meta or are we going to use our brains here?

ABR IS NOT A GOOD LYNCH TODAY OR ANY DAY!

I'm not talking about site meta. I'm talking about balance.

[goodmorning]

I thought the only point of not hammering was so that everyone could post reads?

If we're just going to shit up the thread then I'm going to

Vote: ABR

[goodmorning]

I don't understand anything.

Someone should do something sheepable.

Vote: dragon

til then.

[goodmorning]

Cheetory is Town.

[goodmorning]

That's great and all, but what do you think of TSO right now?

I think I'm reserving judgment on him.

[goodmorning]

good morning still seems like gloating scum who just so happens to vote for me when I was calling him on his scumminess yesterday.

If you read us in ISO I think you'll find that I called you Scum first.

But ok.

@Kitz: In a bit, maybe.

Wake's replace is weird.

[goodmorning]

@TSO: As which alignment am I more likely to act silly?

[goodmorning]

GM's fencesitting

Really?

[goodmorning]

good morning still seems like gloating scum who just so happens to vote for me when I was calling him on his scumminess yesterday.

If you read us in ISO I think you'll find that I called you Scum first.

But ok.

@Kitz: In a bit, maybe.

Wake's replace is weird.

Understandable if it is absolutely wrong. It does not sound scummy though - why would scum want out of a game they were being handed?

Wake is leaning scum for me atm because of earlier shenanigans (that hammer he did was VERY questionable) but his replacement does not lead credence to him being scum.

You may notice the word I use there is "weird."

I'm starting to think SilverWolf is Town? I don't know, this game doesn't make sense anymore.

elusive could be Scum. I don't know anything.

[goodmorning]

Well. This should be interesting.

[goodmorning]

Then again we have a shitload of PR's.

This is what bothers me.

[goodmorning]

ohhhhh this game makes me so tired.

[goodmorning]

GM/Aero buddying noted.

We have been for ages, I'd almost thought we'd gotten away with it.

Vote: dragon

It's still weird that he's seized on one point rather than attempting a case. Unless he's Scum, in which case it makes perfect sense.

On what basis did she state that "elusive might be scum"?

On the basis of the post you posted before that, iirc.

[goodmorning]

Yeah, it was a combo of 3805 and 3806.

[goodmorning]

The thing about the Wake replace is that it really doesn't make sense from Scum. Shitloads of Town PRs are dead, sounds to me like Scum want to finish the game.

[goodmorning]

I was only here for the bit where he wasn't posting, but I'll take your word for it.

[goodmorning]

I could actually join a wagon on Shinobi.

Or TSO for that last post.

[goodmorning]

The game is super long and super full of garbage. I don't know why anyone expects Marquis to have sorted the wheat from the chaff after just a day.

[goodmorning]

I doubt there'd be as many as 7 non-Town players, especially not in one faction. Reg would probably have argued that. CES probably tried to cut powers, probably from Town, so I doubt he'd have been into the idea either. I don't know what mastin would do, but she's always seemed practical to me.
33% Scum is really on the high side, especially for a game this size.

Best guess is either 5-1 or 3-3, 3-3-1 at an outside chance.
But then, I've guessed wrong before.

I'm starting to like marquis.

[goodmorning]

On what basis did she state that "elusive might be scum"?

On the basis of the post you posted before that, iirc.

Yeah, it was a combo of 3805 and 3806.

[goodmorning]

Let me be specific:
1. What about those posts led you to make that assertion?
2. Where do you stand on that FOS now?
3. Why aren't you scum hunting me?

1. The double-post with the one additive and that one additive isn't important enough to not have been added by its lonesome, there's more to it but I'm super tired and don't remember the rest atm.
2. It's not really something I'n interested in pursuing in the near future.
3. Because it's Spring Break. Mafia is more of an escape for me, and on Spring Break there's nothing to escape, so my effort is basically 0. I'll get back to normal when I've got shitloads of homework that I should be doing instead.

[goodmorning]

vc

nobody special: T S O
dragonswapn: Aeronaut
dragonspawn: good morning
FA_Q2: Marquis, elusive
dragonspawn: Goodmorning
Marquis: FA_Q2, Silverwolf

13, 7 to lynch

(expired on 2015-03-26 00:00:00)

go home votecount

you are drunk

VOTE: Nobody Special

"I am trying to pin down a motivation towards asking for a votecount."

Could you fake scumhunt any worse, NS?

Do you actually think there's particular motivation to be found in asking for a votecount over, I don't know,

any other post in the game?

I don't.

Dearest SilverWolf, here is why I want NS dead, found in my ISO if you haven't looked there yet.

If you don't see it, others might not either - carry on!

Hmm.

[goodmorning]

Townpoints to gm for that, I guess.

I only did it for the applause

or something

I couldn't think of any appropriately flippant song lyrics, so...

I could get on this FAQ wagon.
I am OK with it.

Vote: FAQ

That's somewhere between L-2 and L-4, I can't count.

[goodmorning]

@SilverWolf: That's what I thought, but then I couldn't find the votes so I gave up.

p-edit: Well ok then.

[goodmorning]

My wagon generated really fast and very easily - want scum look there. There is literally zero resistance to it.

People keep saying these things. You know what wagon this game did have resistance to it? ABR's on D2. Do you know who didn't turn out to be Scum (disappointingly)? ABR.

[goodmorning]

TSO might have, but TSO and I aren't particularly interested in voting NS atm.

[goodmorning]

oh god

if this is going to turn into a shit show can we just stop it here???

[goodmorning]

Dragon why does TSO feel town to you.
Articulate it.

because his posts feel genuinely annoyed with the towns bad play. Scum wouldn't be genuine in the least.

Seriously? There's nothing fun about winning a game because the Town imploded.

[goodmorning]

Dragon why does TSO feel town to you.
Articulate it.

because his posts feel genuinely annoyed with the towns bad play. Scum wouldn't be genuine in the least.

Seriously? There's nothing fun about winning a game because the Town imploded.

that's lame. Scum would be actively trying to make town implode

It really sucks when Town does it for you, is my point.

[goodmorning]

I'm getting bored with people scumreading me for not doing anything.

Hello, I'm gm, and I'm usually lazy. Nice to meet all of you.

[goodmorning]

like seriously i just subbed in a week ago and fuck the ambiguity of this game already

Y E S

[goodmorning]

It's a game. I'm not interested in making it unfun for myself. Selfish? A little, but I'm not always lazy. I think my actions up to this point ought to make my alignment clear to anyone who's been paying a modicum of attention. I've stated my reads; they haven't changed much. It therefore suits me better currently to observe rather than having a huge argument (which will probably happen anyway, probably with Ozgin, probably over a misunderstanding wherein we'll have been arguing the same thing all along).

Some players, though, will try to take a weak reason to scumread someone. And when people try to make effort indicative of alignment, I start to get contrary.

Which is why this post exists.

[goodmorning]

I'm guessing either it's the dawning realisation that Town actually kinda deserves to lose this game or a decent Scum imitation of the same.

[goodmorning]

It's very Marquis though.

[goodmorning]

I have an idea. Everyone should bring up their last readslist in a quote, then explain what's changed and why.

Other than that, we should try not talking about useless things like VCA or potential game fuck-uppedness.

[goodmorning]

See, and nobody even bothered to tell me whether my idea was stupid, much less actually do it.

And then you guys wonder why I get lazy.

[goodmorning]

Or can all come to our own decision?
I'd rather not put the burden of responsibility for choosing a lynch on one person's shoulders and excusing everyone from making their own decisions makes it way easier for scum to sit on a wagon without standing out.

Correct.

I need sleep. My vote is staying where it is unless a dragon wagon appears.

[goodmorning]

Quick ISO with " NS" on the search. You crumbed him, and saw him out.

So did myself and TSO.

I am starting to doubt the authenticity of the Serial Killer as well - one night of 3 kills out of 5 nights has me skeptical.

I agree. 1-Shot Vig maybe? But then what?

Or maybe we have some sort of blocking/protecting role that's getting very lucky.

Eh. probably no mileage in speculation anyway.

I should probably do some ISOs or something. There are still too many players in this game, I swear.

[goodmorning]

With how the game turns out, I'm unfortunate to say I'm willing to look at the "Towny" players now. NS was being scummy, yet dies and flips Doc.
Those that are familiar with most of the players here are FoS', with meta and informative to their advantage.

Comments? SilverWolf, Aeronaut, Shinobi.
There's just no danger to these players.

I missed this before: why are TSO and myself not on the list? I've played with 6 of the 10 not-me people currently alive and am passably familiar with 1 more via the occasional reading of games.

[goodmorning]

It's not uncommon for the doc not to reveal if they healed anyone or not. That info. isn't revealed until post game or if the doc claims for some reason. Doc's playing scummy is not unusual either.

Red flag. A Doctor should reveal at that point if all he managed to heal are still alive. It would aid us in finding Scum, and do a process of elemination.
None had claimed to be healed. What's a good doctor if he can only heal to prolong but not aid in the slightest towards finding Scum? Continous mislynches outweights outing self in order to find multiple scum.

Unpopular opinion there.

SilverWolf retains the popular opinion, actually.
Doctors are more useful alive than dead, and when in a potentially multiball game with who-knows-what blocking roles or other protective ones, outing their protects doesn't serve to clear anyone as Town (could be Scum targeted by Wolf, kill could have been stopped by someone not the Doctor, etc). So all a Doc claiming would do is get him killed.

UTR stands for 'under the radar.'
NS said

TWO

non-consecutive Docs. Only one had flipped. He very plainly meant that he was the other.

[goodmorning]

Not to mention that if this was so extremely obvious, why didn't he claim then?

He didn't claim because THAT IS OBJECTIVELY BAD DOC PLAY

No, it wouldn't be obvious that there were 2 Docs to anyone who wasn't the second one. Plenty of roles/mechanics/modifiers can account for a lack of kill, including but not limited to:

• Bulletproof
  
• Roleblocker
  
• Jailkeeper
  
• Deathproof
  
• Rolestopper
  
• limited-shot killers
  
• several killers aiming at the same target

WHY ARE WE EVEN ARGUING ABOUT WHY WE KNEW HE WAS DOC AHHHH

Oh and now you picked up the doc crumbs and can't resist boasting how obvious it is.

two nonconsecutive doctors

wait, what?

oh no

oh god no

what??

If you're talking about NS...

yeeep

Well too late then.

I mean, it's not like TSO and I had a conversation about it or anything...

Also, answering a question =/= boasting. Good try though.

Ummm dragon? GM is not the only one who picked up on that. Several of us did. How on Earth does that make her scum?

Basically his entire case on me is that my ego must make me Scum for some reason. idk, it's not like he's been trying to play the game for a while now. Can we lynch him yet?

[goodmorning]

WHY ARE WE EVEN ARGUING ABOUT WHY WE KNEW HE WAS DOC AHHHH

Because not all knew.
In this scenario if all knows anyway, it's best to out himself.

That should be the better play.
If I was Doc and everyone knew I was one without me claiming and it was obvious at that point, I'd just claim and reveal my information.

But everyone didn't know, as you've just said yourself and this conversation is absolutely useless.

Who would shoot NS?

Someone who knew he was Doc...?

It's not as though it was difficult to spot; apparently me, TSO, SilverWolf, and elusive(?) all posted that we saw it in the thread, and it's not inconceivable that others would notice too.

[goodmorning]

But why are we all dwelling on the NK and NS's Doc crumbing when we should be talking scumhunting?

[goodmorning]

She's literally not bragging about anything. You're trying to make a case where there isn't one

I bragged about being right on viking, but that was a while ago.

Nothing has changed since yesterday other than the fact that it's obvious she knew ns was a doc.

Yeah, but I've known that for a couple Days now, so...

How do we really know she knew that long?

Because I literally talked to TSO about it, literally in the literal thread?

I don't know. I just read a recent post of his and the idea suddenly came to here that I don't and I haven't ever really felt Aero is really in this game and really wants to kill scum. He reminds me of me when I play scum sometimes, just chugging along and posting enough to get by, not attracting attention.

It could just be me, but I'd like others to think about it. Yes, gm, you too.

It reads apathetic Town to me. I mean, I'm pretty much playing the same way.

there would have been some resistence if he was scum.

Again with this? How do you explain all the resistance on the ABR wagon? He wasn't Scum.

Was unaware she was aware of the doc for several days. I thought it prudent to look into the claim more with that being the case and realizing how the scum are being strategic for their kills.

She is still a suspect. Been suspecting that slot all game but we've had enough blunders without blindly pushing something without analysing new information.

I feel like you've been trying to push a case on me without actually reading any of my posts. It's annoying.

[goodmorning]

i'm trying to get her to separate the annoyance from the scumread for both herself and my own understanding.

i want to know what she thinks is happening from scum apart from a stubborn push on her

He hasn't actually done anything this entire game.

And I addressed your argument earlier. Opposition to a wagon wouldn't be a tell either way because both scum and town might have reasons to oppose a wagon.

But a lack of opposition would be an indication of town because if the town thinks someone is scum who isn't the scum would want the mislynch and have no reason to oppose town

Scum have plenty of reasons to oppose lynches on Town.

[goodmorning]

If there are 4-5 people on a scumteam, one person going anywhere is totally non-indicative, which is why Tracker is so weak.

[goodmorning]

There is absolutely zero reason to discount Shinobi as a Scum option.

[goodmorning]

Also, what happened to the TSO/Cheetory conflict? Why did that die out so easily? I'm a little behind (a few pages, I just skimmed from the start of the day to here), but I feel like there's almost no TSO/Cheetory rub anymore and that's kinda strange to me.

I don't think Cheetory's posted yet today.

#Everyone: We still have not solved the mystery of the first night. Pisskoff was killed (who was scum), Boonskies died (who was doctor), and Viking claimed being attacked and healed.
So here's my wacky "What The Fuck" theory. Is there a mafia role who suicides itself in order to turn another into mafia? Back where I am from, we have that role.
Inb4 a thousand facepalms.

Even if there was, mid-game alignment changes are explicitly non-Normal, I think.

[goodmorning]

gm, thoughts on Marquis?

I think he exists. I'm not down with a wagon on him today and I'm getting this massive feeling of deja vu right now, I don't know why.

Did someone say this about a Cheetory wagon earlier? Because I just ISO'd myself to look but I couldn't find anything.

[goodmorning]

A man sees three holes in the ground.
"Well, well, well."

[goodmorning]

VOTE: Shinobi
You really need to give some more extensive reads because I have no idea where you stand on just about everyone right now and I literally can't remember anything you've said or done recently. Your play strikes me as pretty safe and I can't think of a better place for scum to be hiding right now than in the background. Who do you think is scum and why? Why aren't you voting for anyone?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[goodmorning]

Busy, but have to say I kinda liked that freakout post so...

thinking.