NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: Mehdi

He just gives me a bad feeling. I also don't like his Empire vote. Well, I don't really like any of the Empire votes, but this one just seemed too weird.

[SnowStorm]

@Snow:

Can you elaborate a bit on why you don't like the other votes on my wagon? Is it just a gut/intuition thing or is it something articulable?

I just don't like how it formed so quickly around the (bad) reason that you were being opportunistic.

Snow similar to Emp's question want to clarify the bad feeling?

It's mostly a feeling. I don't like how you seem to have a need to comment on everything, as if you're trying to look as present and involved as possible.

VOTE: Mehdi

He just gives me a bad feeling. I also don't like his Empire vote. Well, I don't really like any of the Empire votes, but this one just seemed too weird.

Weird how?

Or are you always a vague, touchy feely type of player?

He didn't agree with Johhog's and Arthur's reasons to vote Empire, but then he votes Empire too but because Empire didn't explain his vote when he voted. It looks like he just made up a reason to join the wagon while distancing himself from the other voters and their reasons. And that is weird.

Yes, I can be vague sometimes.

[SnowStorm]

And as for I voted emp that doesn't really change my mind on it. The idea that if I'm voting someone all the other votes on him must be town is dumb. I think I was wrong on emp, so I swapped and looked at the wagon.

You know what's weird is that you thought the votes on Empire were bad even before you put down yours, so why did you even vote him in the first place?

And yeah, Tammy's town.

[SnowStorm]

I just don't like how it formed so quickly around the (bad) reason that you were being opportunistic.

So do you feel that going after ‘easy targets’ isn’t a scum-tell at all or do you simply disagree that Empire was not scummy in his suspicion of NS?

I think it was too early to judge Empire and his vote based on the fact that NS is an easy target. Actually, Johhog using that argument gave me some bad feelings about him. Easy targets can be scum too, so putting a first vote on an easy target isn't being opportunistic. Also, easy targets are easy for a reason, the mafia don't need to rush into trying to lynch them like that, because they'll get themselves in a possible lynch position sooner or later. As for Empire's reason, I don't remember thinking it was bad, at least for the beginning of the game when we were just getting started.

You realize you're adding to point 3. I don't think you're dumb enough to make reasons and why you suspect me different. Those are the reasons I suspect you. And how you still can't understand something when I explain it a thousand times

(such as quick lycnhing is a stupid motive when it rarely happens so being on an easy mislynch early is dumb)

.

Why do you keep on talking about quicklynches? I mean, what's the point of it?? Btw, the only time we we're even close to one was when you jumped on the Empire wagon...

How do even make statementsl ike i am not being proactive,

you don't even know what my suspects and views about each one properly.

This is Mafia, a place i can ask, accuse, argue with players around me. so, don't tell me what not to do. Being a townie I would expect my town to find me and its important to act as team. you can't on your win get the town win. so my attempt was to see how many people have common opinion it is an effort to see who the most scummy but it doesn't change what my opinion one each one based on observation, but it is not always safe depend on self opinons becuase the rest town may have information than i do and i am trying to get what i need to identifiy mafia.

I think that's the problem right there. In your position you should be more worried at getting your proper opinions and suspicions out there than asking random and possibly irrelevant questions.

[SnowStorm]

And quick lynch = easy target since if you're pushing someone as scum it's likely for a lynch and easy kind of shows you think it won't take too much time or won't be too hard.

I don't even... Why would anyone pull out a quick-lynch on early day 1? Why do you think that's a worthy point against anyone in this game?

(And please, quote the posts you respond to! And some punctuation wouldn't hurt either...)

[SnowStorm]

And quick lynch = easy target since if you're pushing someone as scum it's likely for a lynch and easy kind of shows you think it won't take too much time or won't be too hard.

I don't even... Why would anyone pull out a quick-lynch on early day 1? Why do you think that's a worthy point against anyone in this game?

(And please, quote the posts you respond to! And some punctuation wouldn't hurt either...)

So what do you think the scum motivation in pushing an easy target early on is?

I'd say scum usually push easy targets to get them lynched. That's what scum do. What I don't know is why anyone would try to get someone quick-lynched, rather than just normally lynched... Now could you answer the questions I asked you?

[SnowStorm]

Since I think an easy target is the type you'd expect to be lynched faster then normal if that actually worked. I'm treating them as similar and it was in reference to joh pushing emp for opportunism/easy target of NS when I don't think that's true.

You should stop treating those as similar then. Johhog never accused Empire of trying to quick-lynch NS, he only accused him of going after an easy target. Why did you change your vote from him to Vi? What made you change your mind?

[SnowStorm]

So it was meta that made you take your vote off of Joh? You're that yo saying that your reasons to vote Joh were bad and that you were voting him mostly because of his playstyle? Or did he also "fail to answer questions in time" and "accused people of being opportunistic" in that game?

I think your vote change is just an attempt to creating viable a counter-wagon.

[SnowStorm]

Can someone a "hammer intent" already? Or Medhi can you just cut the crap and claim??

[SnowStorm]

Can someone

express

a "hammer intent" already? Or Medhi can you just cut the crap and claim??

Ugh. fixed.

[SnowStorm]

:poker face: Ok... Let me check back. I clearly missed that.

[SnowStorm]

So I'm not a double voter

And what was the intent of that then since I don't think I'd ever have fully believed it (plus I prefer to act town after being really hammered for fun as scum)?

rofl if you're referring to NS's hammer intent for

if

I'm not lynched

sure I'm vanilla.

Oh, this was the claim?? The way in which it was presented is completely unacceptable by Lord Yates' standards. I mean, ugh, it's preceded by an IF. (And for some reason I thought you were talking about previous games).

Anyway, since this is finally out of the way, where's that hammer?

[SnowStorm]

(Prod dodge. Merry Christmas!)

[SnowStorm]

Also it's weird that snowstorm never made a comment on kingmaker, especially with how lacking kingmakers play has been. This is somewhat worrisome.

Kingmaker's play is usually lackluster, especially on day 1... So it wasn't really worth commenting on, unless we had Mehdi's flip, because it was a post I could see him do if Mehdi were innocent. Now that we're sure of that, here's the post:

As he has the highest post count, I'm starting with Mehdi.

His early stuff is meh. Interaction with Johhog is not making my read about him better. I don't know why he is taking vig direction thing so seriously though, I assumed it was a joke. Anyway, vig power belongs to vig(assuming there is one, of course) and it is his decision. I'm okay with vig shooting anyone who is not VPI/CI.

Only thing made me worry was his high activity, since mafia usually avoids it, especially at first day. But since he said his town and mafia play are not so different(IIRC), I can count that off too.

I'm okay with Mehdi lynch, and I can hammer after I finish all of my reads.

It was the first of his reads and the most complete. I find it suspicious that he picked Mehdi as his first read not because he was the top suspect but because he had the highest post count. It sounds like he was trying to make it look like he was posting his reads in an order as to not look opportunistic. I also don't like the read. The vig comment is fluff, lots of people commented on it, but he only brings it up in Mehdi's read and he doesn't really say if it's scummy or not. Apparently it wasn't scummy, because in the next paragraph he says the only thing that worries him about Medhi is the high post count, which doesn't really worry him after all because Mehdi had said his town and scum play weren't very different from each-other. Overall the read comes out as pretty null, but in the last line he adds that he's fine with the lynch and that he'll even hammer, but only after he finishes his reads. What's the point of doing more reads if you're already set on hammering someone? This tells me he was making those reads not to scumhunt but to appear town; make it look like he cared, when he had basically said that those reads would have no influence in his vote. His vote on ArcAngel kind of proves that.

Picking the easy target now, aren't we? And is she really the right vote if you considered her null until now? You get a place on my suspect list.

Easy target? I could have hammered Mehdi there and move the game to a date that is more comfortable for me(after my exam, that is), but I didn't?

Voting a null for pressure and etc. is not so rare thing and often useful? It's not like I can't move my vote or something.

He didn't vote her because he suspected her or because he thought she'd be a better lynch than Mehdi, he did it to add pressure on her. It didn't add any pressure though, since he had already said he would vote Medhi. It was a pointless vote that only served to make it look like he was doing something.

All that said, I'm placing my vote on him for now.

VOTE: Kingmaker.

[SnowStorm]

So... scumreads.

Snowstorm- His Mehdi-vote starts off as just a feeling , but he never really seems to be trying to consider his alignment. I think a lot of his questions are designed to incriminate rather than gain information from the answers. An exception to this is 321, but his next post is something that could be said regardless of what Mehdi's answer was (and I don't think his answer there was scummy), making the whole process seem really fake to me.

Another thing is that I get the impression of him being in "Lynch-Mehdi" mode and just being negative towards him in every way, which I think is likely from scum. Examples are 506 and his over-reaction to the claim in 510.

Could you give us an example of the questions I "designed to incriminate Mehdi" and what gave you that impression? Because I didn't do that, and it would have been kind of pointless to try to incriminate someone who was already a sure lynch. And I asked him questions even when I knew I wouldn't vote anyone else. I was trying to understand him and try to make sense of his actions. By the end of the day I knew there was a chance he'd flip innocent but he was our best lynch choice. I was more annoyed than angry on #506, dragging the claim the way he did was stupid and pointless. And #510 was far from an over-reaction, it was more of an expression of my annoyance towards him plus a little joke to lighten the post since I knew it wasn't entirely his fault that I missed his claim.

[SnowStorm]

301 is an example, and although I like to ask incriminating questions sometimes, I get the impression that the purpose of the questions was not to read Mehdi, but to attack him.

Why did you put effort into understanding Mehdi if you knew you wouldn't move your vote?

In that example, the purpose was to try to understand why he was talking about speed-lynches and if he was using it as a point against or in favor of anyone. I just wanted to get a clearer picture of his intentions and reassure my vote. I ended up being less sure of my vote than I was before, but he still was the best lynch option.

[SnowStorm]

Also, SnowStorm, read on MoI/his slot. Go.

Null, which is why I hadn't commented on him. I was also waiting to see what he had to say about the little wagon on him.

I really did not like that Goofball replacement and I'm not really liking Nacho either, so that slot is still my preferred lynch.

I'm also not liking the sudden attention BabySpice is getting. It seems fishy...

[SnowStorm]

I'll catch up more in-depth later, but deas, zach, SAD, tammy, Johhog, and empire are all strong townreads to me.
NS is a strong townread, but there's something I want to check up on before I set that in stone.
Konowa is a decently strong townread, but I still need more from him.
Baby Spice, SnowStorm, and rofl are scumreads.

Vote: Baby Spice

Nacho, what are the reasons behind your scum reads? And how strong are your strong town reads? I find it weird that you're giving such strong town reads with so few reasoning behind them, especially since you haven't even fully(/deeply?) caught up with the game.

[SnowStorm]

baby spice

- who else besides johhog do you suspect and why? Also, I asked you before but I don't think you answered, what is your read on nobody special?

Besides Johhog. NS. That nothing to fear comment still bugs the hell out of me.

I can't fathom a town reason for it now that we know for certain that AA wasn't a mason/neighbour.

How would AA being a mason or neighbor give NS a town reason to make that comment. And where did you get that idea from? I mean, what made you even consider it?

And when you first say it had struck you as coaching. What kind of coaching were you talking about and how was it bad/scummy?

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, it read as if it could have been an in game message to a mason buddy, or possibly a neighbour who gave off good town vibes. We now know that AA wasn't one so that option is out.

Don't they usually get their own QT? Anyway, why do you not think the "Nothing to fear" comment is scummy? You say you can't find a town reason for him to say it, what about scum reasons?

[SnowStorm]

Tammy, why did you vote Kingmaker yesterday? Why him over MoI, Baby or NS?

[SnowStorm]

That leaves Arthur, Snowstorm, Konowa, and DeasVail. Working POE here and will be seeing if I can narrow the list some more with ISO reads, but it's Snowstorm's late day 2 play that is drawing most of my interest.

Summary of that:
*A throwaway comment about how he doesn't like the attention on Baby Spice. (Which I am noticing now in light of her flip.)
*

A response to Nacho that seems designed to discredit his reads. Not sure why that is needed at that point.
*Late day interactions with Baby Spice that just look odd. (734 and 739.) I can't figure out what the purpose of those interactions would be from a town perspective.

Vote: Snowstorm.

Could you elaborate on those two points?

That middle point is rather odd. You're accusing me of trying to discredit Nacho's reads when you yourself were set on lynching her even before she posted and you never even showed any interest in what she had to say, nor did you even appear after she posted and you knew she was replacing in.

[SnowStorm]

I'm also looking forward to your ISO reads.

[SnowStorm]

I was committed to the lynch of that player slot based on the actions of DGB, and later some of the actions by Kingmaker after reading him that I never got a chance to post. He was getting lynched more than likely no matter what at that point so I don't see any point in attacking his reads. I would have liked to see him get a chance to post with a full read of the game in a more perfect world without a really short deadline looming. (One week deadlines... and no extension for replacements... wow.)

As to the last point. The interaction was interesting to me because you seemed to be opposed to the wagon, but the questioning seemed to indicate some level of suspicion to Baby Spice. If not that, then what was the purpose of that questioning?

I'm just thinking about the actions and the point in the game where the actions came, where a few more votes on Baby Spice would have likely ended up with her being lynched in Nacho's place the last day phase. (If I would have been in a position to put her in the lead with that little time to deadline I personally would have switched.) I'm just thinking about things in hindsight where your positions were crucially opposed to the idea of her being lynched.

But I didn't attack Nacho's reads. I asked her to clarify them. It would have given us some more info had she flipped scum; I believe she could have even changed our minds about lynching her had she posted some more substance.

About Baby, I suspected her, but I also thought she could easily be just a bad town player and I didn't like the sudden attention she was getting, it felt like a derail of yours or Nacho's lynch, which had been the main wagons of the day. I especially didn't like that Nacho voted her, it seemed like a less obvious easy vote (voting you would have been the obvious).

[SnowStorm]

I need more time to reply to Tammy.

Preference for scum would probably be:

Konowa > SnowStorm > Zach > NS

If there's scum outside that, then I've got something wrong as I'm decently confident in the others. Not that I'd be too surprised though.

Vote: SnowStorm

because I'm just too cool.

What? Why did you vote me instead of Konowa? That doesn't really make you cool... and I was starting to think you were cool.

[SnowStorm]

I can easily see either Konowa or Zach as a partner to Baby.

Baby Spice can die next. Analyzing the Mehdi wagon

before the flip

and calling him town for utterly crummy reasons just resonates like she knew what he'd flip. (Knew vs reasoned.)

This post sounds like distancing. Had Baby not been killed, she would have probably been today's lynch; bussing her would be a logical move from her partners, especially if they were in Zach's position. He replaced into a slot that was one of the top suspects so he had to redeem it some way. Baby's imminent lynch gave him an opportunity to do so. It's also odd that Baby didn't comment this post.

What I also find odd about Zach is that he was tunneling on DGB and he didn't seem to even consider looking for alternate lynches, but then he made that post that pretty accurately lists Baby's main scumtells. Then in his next post he says he is still reading the game and gives a town read on Tammy and Johhog. Sounds too much like a crowd pleaser, since those are pretty popular reads and those were the only reads he posted (including Baby's and DGB's). His vote and tunneling on DGB also seemed pretty convenient and taking Tammy's side against DGB, then posting the town read on her, it really looks like crowd pleasing. All in all I'm pretty wary of him.

As for Konowa, this post of Baby struck me as odd:

This. Nothing to fear is a weird thing to say here. A weird way to put it.

Why not comment on it before with konowa then?

Part mobile posting, part looking to se what would happen.

Also,

I'm not agreeing with Konowa about it lowering pressure

. Struck me more as some form of coaching.

Both Konowa and her went after NS because of the same post, but for some reason she disagreed with Konowa's (better) argument and made up that coaching stuff. It looked like distancing. ...Though now I could also see it as baby making up a reason as to why she didn't comment on the post when Konowa did.

Meh, I though there was more on Konowa, but I don't see any strong scum tells on a re-read. I didn't see anything that would oppose to him being her partner though, but I think Zach makes more sense, it just fits better. Another conclusion I took from Konowa's ISO is that he's not likely to be scum with Zach and vice versa. Which worries me because I have a good impression on the rest of the players.

[SnowStorm]

Btw,

VOTE: Zachrulez.

[SnowStorm]

So, the fact that I'm still alive kind of makes me doubt SnowStorm being scum. But I also know we are not at Westeros and I probably wouldn't be first choice for a kill around here. Post 766 somewhat make me doubt a scum SnowStorm also in conjunction with the he always kills me as scum thing.

I don't like that he didn't follow up with it

and was waiting to see his response, but I *think* as scum he'd not bother with questioning me out of everyone else he could have questioned at the start of day 3. Like, a big part of me feels like if he were scum he'd just not want to deal with me as he'd know I was town and that I might get more focused on him if he were to try to focus on me. Does that make sense?

The follow up to that question could take me some time to write and I didn't have time for it. I also don't think it's urgent or even relevant because of rofl's likely breadcrumb, it's just that it bothered me that you stayed with your vote in KM for pressure rather than move it to Baby, whom you seemed to have a scum-read on.

[SnowStorm]

And based on my experience with him, MoI is nicer as scum than he is as town, and a few of his Day 1 posts indicated not-nice MoI to me.

This is where I kinda disagree. He seemed really level-headed and "nice" in his back-and-forth with me and I recall him treating Arthur similarly. I think the only time he wasn't being nice was when he was addressing Johhog but I remembered that being tempered with some calm stuff. Have to re-look tomorrow.

I agree with Empire. MoI definitely seemed nicer than ruder. I have only played with him once, in the ADWD game and even though I don't recall him being noticeably rude in that game, I don't recall him being nice either. But I do remember noticing this game that he seemed nicer than I thought he was.

[SnowStorm]

Tammy, when you speculate about Snowstorm being likely to kill you, was the decision to kill you in those games largely his or are you attributing the kills to him because scum as a unit chose to kill you?

I think we could say that was the case in the second game, since my partner was a new player with no scum experience and I was a two game scum veteran. In the first and third game, where I was partnered with Kingmaker, we'd discuss our preferred targets and reach an agreement. I don't think we ever disagreed though, so I can tell you that I always killed who I wanted to kill.

[SnowStorm]

Looking back at Zach's latest posts, it becomes more obvious that he's scum. In #763, he reached a list of 4 suspects through PoE and said he'd try to narrow down that list even more by reading their ISO's, which he only started doing by #794. On #798 he posts the results, curiously it seems he only ISO'ed Konowa and me, who were the most suspected of his list of 4. Aside from that first listing, he never mentions Arthur or DV again, which tells me he never read their ISO's, because even if he didn't suspect them as much as the other two, as town, he would have still read them to reassure himself. That's what town does.

Back to #798. The only result he got from Konowa's ISO was that he has few posts and needs to post more. No mention of content, just fluff. About me he mentions that I had only voted twice, some fluff on Baby Spice, and that I'm not conveying what my suspicions are. It doesn't look bad on a first read, but if he wanted to know more about my suspicions, why didn't he ask me? IF he wanted to see more from me and Konowa, why didn't he try to interact with us? The answer is simple, he doesn't care, he's scum.

Now on to his last post #840. Konowa and I have posted more and he acknowledges that the activity has risen, he also says some fluff about Konowa's increase in activity and how it was and wasn't a point in his favor. The only other thing he talked about was Tammy's speculation that if I was scum she'd already be dead. While that sounds very interesting, it's something that can't really been taken into account in this game, because of a number of variables. So instead of commenting on his suspect's posts or interacting with them, he chose to interact with Tammy about something that's irrelevant and he does so because it's not irrelevant to Tammy and he sees that it's a factor she's taking into account. He wants us to think he'll take it into account too, because it's the safest to be on her side than to pursue my lynch and risk looking like he ignored the info Tammy posted. Meanwhile, he ignored my vote on him, DV's Konowa vote, Konowa's replies to DV and a bunch of other stuff.

Tell me people, how is he not scum?

[SnowStorm]

What are you reads on Arthur and myself?

Null leaning town on Arthur. His posting style reminds me of my own actually.

Null on you. Haven't really been able to get a strong pang on either the scum or town side on any of your posts. I'd lynch you on POE before Arthur at this point.

Null reads at this point are kind of worrisome. Do you also need to see more of them? Konowa's low activity was apparently your biggest point against him, he posted more and you didn't take any conclusion of it; you also said you wanted to see more of me and you haven't commented on anything I've said posteriorly. Now you read two players with high activity and there's nothing in their posts that can make you formulate a clear read on them. Do you get where I'm going with this? You used low activity as a pretext to suspect players, because there was not enough content for you to make a proper read, but you can't give a proper read on people with high content either. So my conclusion is, you're not even trying and you should be if you're town.

[SnowStorm]

So, the fact that I'm still alive kind of makes me doubt SnowStorm being scum. But I also know we are not at Westeros and I probably wouldn't be first choice for a kill around here. Post 766 somewhat make me doubt a scum SnowStorm also in conjunction with the he always kills me as scum thing.

I don't like that he didn't follow up with it

and was waiting to see his response, but I *think* as scum he'd not bother with questioning me out of everyone else he could have questioned at the start of day 3. Like, a big part of me feels like if he were scum he'd just not want to deal with me as he'd know I was town and that I might get more focused on him if he were to try to focus on me. Does that make sense?

The follow up to that question could take me some time to write and I didn't have time for it. I also don't think it's urgent or even relevant because of rofl's likely breadcrumb, it's just that it bothered me that you stayed with your vote in KM for pressure rather than move it to Baby, whom you seemed to have a scum-read on.

But why? One rofl might not have investigated me, so dropping it like that seems odd. But why did it bother you that I kept my vote on kingmaker? What bothers me a bit about you is that you asked me that at the beginning of day even thugh you voted kingmaker over anyone else and after it was pointed put by two people that rofl might have investigated me.

I guess what's mostly bothering me is about this is that our of all things you could ask you asked why I voted kingmaker, and then say it bothered you for why I kept it there and don't follow up. I mean meta wise, you would know this isn't a thing. I'm like the worst person to look at votes wise, I spend nearly whole days without ever even voting, so im not sure why you focus on it for me and then not follow up especially since you couldn't know I voted kingmaker for pressure until I said it after you asked, so how could it bother you?

It looks to me like you picked up n something convenient and dropped it because most everyone else decided on a crumb.

I know rofl might not have investigated you, and that's why I asked you the question in the first place; because I had doubts about you and didn't want to let you go unnoticed because of the possibility that rofl investigated you. I "dropped" it because I didn't have time to follow up on it at the time and because I thought my limited time would be better put to use reading people who had higher chances of being scum. I still gave you a resumed version of my thoughts on it, which you just quoted.

I voted Kingmaker because he was my top suspect, that was pretty explicit. But you had voted him and had given no reasons for it. You had commented on how you found it weird that I hadn't said anything about KM's lackluster day 1 play, but when I did post about KM you didn't comment on it. I assumed then that the vote was for pressure, that you didn't have any strong scum tells on him and just wanted to see how he'd react to a vote. Nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is you interacting with Baby and apparently getting a strong scum feeling on her, yet opting to stay with the pressure vote on KM. The time passed and KM only made a brief appearance just to prod dodge, he never reacted to anything. Your vote had been useless and was staying useless, when it could have been used to put pressure on someone who you actually thought to be scum.

Your vote also bothered me because you should know KM isn't a very reactive player and pressuring him with votes doesn't usually work. He's constantly getting lynched and mislynched because the votes pile up on him ad he does nothing about it. I had that in mind when I voted him and the difference between your vote and mine is that I presented arguments which he could have answered to while you only had the vote, which he was more likely to ignore. Also, you know KM is an easy target and a common mislynch victim, the fact that you chose to go after him on day two over anyone else didn't make me feel any better about you.

[SnowStorm]

You're right, Tammy. It was wrong of me to doubt my earlier town read on you and I should have kept my paranoia to myself.

No Deas, I don't think he has.

[SnowStorm]

I encourage people to read DV in regards to Baby and Zach, I actually think it's pretty clear.

I read DV after the lynch and I agree. I'll just do some more re-reads to be sure.

[SnowStorm]

Yeah, that's the thing though. You, Empire, SAD and Johhog were all widely considered town, so if you were all town, I'd expect it to be a case of who's the most threatening moreso than who's the least likely to be lynched (as you all would be from scum's case) and SAD and Johhog just haven't seemed to have as much influence as you and Empire have.

Maybe that's why scum killed Joh and not them. He was more neutral as opinions go, so his kill doesn't seem to point at anyone in particular upon ISO'ing him.

[SnowStorm]

I'm fine with a mass-claim too.

[SnowStorm]

So, who's starting? Deas?

[SnowStorm]

Vig. 2 Shots. You're welcome.

NS can be next.

[SnowStorm]

baby spice can die after moi. and deasvail.

I think this is why rofl was killed.

[SnowStorm]

Can we just lynch DV already? I would add more to Konowa's case but it is just easier for everyone to ISO DV and Zach. It becomes pretty obvious.

Also, Tammy seems to still think it's NS, but NS's interaction with Baby doesn't look like distancing to me and Zach also cleared him for that reason after Baby died. I doubt he would have given a town-read on his partner, since it would have become more obvious, it looks like he cleared him just to get the town cred he so much needed.

VOTE: DeasVail

[SnowStorm]

Like what?

[SnowStorm]

??

Whatever. You're scum.

[SnowStorm]

I feel like I'm just fucking around at this point because the game's a town win no matter how we do this so whatever. It'd be pretty neat if one of DV/NS/Konowa would confess if they're soloscum so we can end this game faster but I can dream~

Scum claiming is lame. And it's not like we need them to claim, it has become so obvious that needing his claim to end the game would be insulting.

Just hammer DV already. There's no point in delaying this. We're not going to lynch NS, I'm not even going to consider it.

[SnowStorm]

Seriously Tammy?.... Please.... just end this already.

[SnowStorm]

*HINT*HINT*

Basically,

I think it's quite likely town will win whether I'm lynched or not, but I feel like I should at least somehow try to not be lynched and not just lazily accept it, unless people can just keep ISOing me until they have a townread on me or something

.

Er.. NS?

PEdit: Well yes I agree, but

if he's scum at this stage then he's completely screwed, so wouldn't he at least try to look town?

Although now I think he might just be trolling.

Also, I'm surprisingly a little sad.

...
Yeah, I don't really like that reason for town Konowa because it's what people have said about me when I've been scum before, and

although it's possible to slip up a bit (as I feel I have done a bit recently as scum)

, I don't think it's

too

hard to replicate town play.

Empire, just vote NS (or Konowa if you suddenly want to). I'm town and you can trust that. I just feel like things would be so much easier if I could be seen as town.

And if this can't happen, which I'd totally understand, then probably make the decision sooner rather than later and don't beat yourself up too much over it, as the order doesn't

really

matter in the end.

You know,

DeasFlail could be my new nickname.

He can't be more obvious than that without claiming. So stop feeding him with your second-guessing and just lynch him!

[SnowStorm]

He doesn't just look suspicious. His whole attitude reeks of scum who knows his chances of surviving this day are minimal, let alone win the game. He said he wouldn't just lazily accept his lynch but i haven't seen him throw any serious accusations. He's not even really fighting for his life, he's just playing around your indecisiveness.

And I really don't get what the point is in delaying his lynch since IF (for some abnormal reason) he flips town, we can lynch NS tomorrow and still win the game.

[SnowStorm]

This is just so annoying. DV's lynch is a no-brainer to me and I simply can't understand why you three are still trying to avoid it or fight it. I get it that you wanted to look at other suspects, I get it that you really wished you were right about your earlier town reads on DV / scum reads on Konowa/NS, but we've had more than enough time to think and analyze every possible scenario and no matter how hard you wish you were right, you have to admit that you're most likely wrong now and DV won't become town all of a sudden just to make you happy.

Can we end this now, please?!!?!??

(I'm aware this might come out as an overreaction and that I could just wait for you to make up your minds, but I can't help it, this is deeply irritating.)

[SnowStorm]

This is just so annoying. DV's lynch is a no-brainer to me and I simply can't understand why you three are still trying to avoid it or fight it. I get it that you wanted to look at other suspects, I get it that you really wished you were right about your earlier town reads on DV / scum reads on Konowa/NS, but we've had more than enough time to think and analyze every possible scenario and no matter how hard you wish you were right, you have to admit that you're most likely wrong now and DV won't become town all of a sudden just to make you happy.

Can we end this now, please?!!?!??

(I'm aware this might come out as an overreaction and that I could just wait for you to make up your minds, but I can't help it, this is deeply irritating.)

What is your problem? How is it hurting you for us to discuss things? Because you just know you're right? Good for you, don't move your vote, but I don't really see the need for the ranting.

For the record, I couldn't care less about being right about earlier town reads, especially on ones that weren't that strong either. The only town read I'd refuse to so much as consider is empire. And I suppose you as a good point was made that the gunsmith makes sense with a vig I guess. The rest I've been reconsidering and reassessing the whole time.

And if it is DV, great. All we've wasted is a couple of days. If it's not, then the discussion today will be productive for tomorrow. So just deal. You're going to get your DV lynch.

As I said, I can't help it, it just irritates me. It's pointless. All the discussion we're having now we can have tomorrow IF DV flips town (or if he flips scum and the game goes on), and in that case the discussion will actually be fruitful because we'll know his alignment. We need his flip to move on. Also, if the game doesn't end with DV's lynch, it means right now the scum is playing us, sowing doubt and uncertainness, which they wouldn't be able to do if we had lynched DV already.

[SnowStorm]

Her case on me (not to mention her abrasive, snarky attitude) is not town!Tammy. I'll have to dig up the game, give me a few minutes.

I'm pretty sure Tammy is town. Not because I think everyone but DS is town, but because she's playing like her townself. This attitude, it's a town tell.

[SnowStorm]

Deas, regarding Konowa, what do you make of Zach's scum read on him and openness to his lynch? Because as I see it that is a huge point against Konoa-Scum.

[SnowStorm]

Thank you Zar. That made me feel special.

(Someday I'll mod a game, I'll force you to play and I'll torment you until the very end!)

[SnowStorm]

Just an FYI, you were fucking awesome and the town MVP this game.

Thanks. That is something I don't hear often I don't think I'd have been able to survive if I was just a VT, being the vig took a lot of pressure off of me.

Congrats fellow townies!! We rocked! Looking forward to play again with you all (including scum)

And thanks Zar, you're evil but your games are always great.

[SnowStorm]

I told you rofl didn't investigate me!

See, I was right in being paranoid!