NY 160: Terrible Melodrama Mafia (Game Over)

[Empking]

/in reading

[Empking]

Very Town

JacobSavage

Town

adorkable
Demon Core
Nero Cain
Plan B
Cletus+Brandine
Toon Fighter

Null

RedCoyote Number Six
N
4nxi3ty

Scum

Senjai
PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)
DoomYoshi (not with Piggy)
Untrod Tripod

[Empking]

I'db rather not vote Piggy and none of my other scumtargets have a wagon.

Unvote: JS

- Seriously, Thea?

Vote: Senjai

- Just read the first two pages, the game is solved right there.

[Empking]

Not sure I understand.

How is it that you differentiate Senjai as town or as scum? I am pretty sure he is town.

The great rise of the counterwagon, but mostly his posting in the RVS stunk too much at "look at me, but I'm not doing anything".

Also, how is it even possible to get a read of any kind on UT? He hasn't said anything...

UT has said enough. I can't remember exactly what it was page three-ish.

[Empking]

I'm not sure what just happened, but Nero's post got messed up bad... is it just me? Or did he do something wacky with that last post?

I see it too.

[Empking]

I didn't think NC was scum before the claim, I don't think he's scum after the claim.

[Empking]

Replacing Cletus+Brandine.

Also, deadline is in ~46 hours.

Unvote, Vote: Piggy

[Empking]

Empking, can I interest you in an N lynch instead?

I don't find him scummy; he's not on my definitely not list though.

[Empking]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

, the flips make me more certain of my predicted three man scum team.

[Empking]

Pedit: Empking stop being a shitbag, actually read my posts, you'll notice that we're town and you'll notice UT as useless as he is, isn't scum.

Where did you say that?

[Empking]

Where did you say that?

Instead of just blindingly seeing that he 'fluff-posted' at the start look behind the motivations behind his posts and you'll noticed he was relaxed and his 'gambit' for getting a read on Toon although completely stupid was obvtown

Relaxed like somebody who knows his scumbuddies have his back, but yeah, I didn't realise Senjai had been replaced. You two look town.

[Empking]

What about Dooms comment towards UT and UTs response do you think make them potential partners? Because while I hate it pretty sure UTs town from it.

That discussion doesn't look town to me. I don't think it looks scummy either; though you can justify anything (e.g. "Making a claim that only matters if an unclaimed player is a vig is a rather pointless, and is just fluff; possibly between buddies.@)

[Empking]

is anyone a little concerts that they went for Demon core?

Demon "UT is scum: law & order tell" Core? Haven't given it as much thought as it deserves actually.

[Empking]

PEdit: Empking, the same thing could be attributed to N / Toon / RC / Adorkable.

Undoubtedly at least one, and probably two, scum are in those five names. As I said, I've paid less attention to it than it deserves.

[Empking]

Thought you were being sarcastic. You should take a look into Toon again (Plus look at our read on him in Post 399 and Post 429).

I will. Also, how has your read on N changed with Piggy's flip?

[Empking]

Piggy flipping town pretty much meant the whole trio of Toon / Piggy / N not working thing became irrelevant but Empire found something in Ns ISO that pointed against him being a Doom-partner. I think it was Post 87 (?) but not certain if he was talking about Ns reaction towards Doom or Dooms question towards N or the overall interaction, I find the whole thing fairly weak but want to talk with him more about it and he can probably explain his thoughts better than I can - he's heading into a college lecture so he should be able to post in the next few hours. We really rushed over a bunch of people because he had to go.

Following the link; I agree with Empire.

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: ToonFighter

[Empking]

No idea why Empking has JacobSavage as very town. I still doubt Emp-scum would so blatantly buddy his buddy - but then again, that may be what he wants us to think. And he votes obvtown Senjai - yeah, I am not liking Empking. Could be a chainsaw defense.

What? How do you define chainsaw defense?

[Empking]

N: Have you commented on CS's claim?

[Empking]

EMP, why do you think its a three man scumteam?

JS-more content plox.

Fifteen players.

[Empking]

3 seems kinda small to me though. You think 4 is to much?

Yes.

[Empking]

^I'm going to assume that was sarcasm. .. but yeah I see your point.
Anyway do you have anything to announce?

No he doesn't.

Vote: UT

On DC's list etc.

[Empking]

The second thing, and what gives me the most pause, is DoomYoshi's use of the word "being" as opposed to "claiming". That does seem like a slip that reveals that Untrod Tripod is Town, or at least not partnered with DoomYoshi. For them to be partners, DoomYoshi would have had to intentionally use that phrasing with the hope that it would preserve Untrod Tripod. That's something of a stretch, I know.

I think the whole unnaturalness of that discussion, including the silly phrasing, lends credence to the UT & DY being buddies hypothesis.

[Empking]

What changed, from your point of view, to make the discussion more likely to indicate a scum-scum interaction than a null read on the interaction?

I paid less critical attention to my opinion the second time and fell foul to bias.

[Empking]

Piggy flipped town thus it's a read wrong, Doom was correct and UT I'm fairly sure is also wrong but lets say for the sake it's in the balance.

That's unfair, I said wghem making the list that Piggy and DY weren't both scum.

Nos: How did you come to the conclusion, after reading day two, that DY's current posting wasn't helping the town?

[Empking]

...it's still a scum read.

There are two lignments: Scum & town. If you're saying that if DY being scum makes Piggy town, then if DY is scum then that's ultimately a (strong) read on Piggy being town. I don't think my rweads were exceptionally good (the GB thing for one), but I think you're scum trust trying to create fictional scumteams at the length you're going to try to incriminate RC.

[Empking]

So to be clear you guys are saying that after 3 days your strongest scum read is down to me mis-spelling a name after reading 25 pages in a ridiculously short time? Really?

Whose name did you mis-spell?

[Empking]

you know what, fuck that, give me a single Scum read on Toon made by Empking IN THE ENTIRE GAME. If you can't see why Emp needs rope we've got more problems than me posting a mistaken draft, Emp even calls Toon town in the only read of Toon he/she actually does make.

Don't pretend that I didn't mention DC's list several times on D2 as the place to look.

[Empking]

is anyone a little concerts that they went for Demon core?

Demon "UT is scum: law & order tell" Core? Haven't given it as much thought as it deserves actually.

PEdit: Empking, the same thing could be attributed to N / Toon / RC / Adorkable.

Undoubtedly at least one, and probably two, scum are in those five names. As I said, I've paid less attention to it than it deserves.

[Empking]

I think given the current situation it should be a choice between Nost and Empking rather than UT for the time being.

Why? Nost isn't claiming any role insight, and we (you and I) agree that UT is scum. Nost is still dumb - though "show me where you mentioned TF being scum at all before voting" being changed to "show me where you mentioned it three times before voting" does smell a little like scum wanting a dumb town read - which is null for Nost, and certainly null for me (I'm reading you correctly for your reason for wanting to narrow it down to me, right?).

[Empking]

I think given the current situation it should be a choice between Nost and Empking rather than UT for the time being.

Why? Nost isn't claiming any role insight, and we (you and I) agree that UT is scum. Nost is still dumb - though "show me where you mentioned TF being scum at all before voting" being changed to "show me where you mentioned it three times before voting" does smell a little like scum wanting a dumb town read - which is null for Nost, and certainly null for me (I'm reading you correctly for your reason for wanting to narrow it down to me, right?).

No, not at all. I said that because, it certainly looked (at least for a time) that at least one of the two main wagons was scum (probably 1, not sure which though) and by encouraging everyone to be one of two wagons it means that anaylsis on the flip might be easier.

The two main wagons were UT and Nost. Am I misunderstanding you?

[Empking]

I think you both should reassess your read on Untrod Tripod and join the Nostredeus wagon.

Re Nost: Other than the UT support point, I'm not sure if the rest of your tells are useful alignment indicators*, so I won't.

*other than DC's list.

Reading through my post; I think I may have been immediately reactionary in my 'ignoring' of your post. I'm still much more confident on UT though.

[Empking]

Plan B& F16 need to change their votes.

[Empking]

Vote: nost

- I'm following Plan B's case.

[Empking]

Oh and Empking, if you're around (Change your vote to F-16) we were trying to work out what the potential setup is re; number of scum, if it's a SK we're fairly sure that it's two scum left maximum but if it's a vig do you think it's plausible for there to be three scum left because balance wise I think it is but it seems very iffy.

Also (Change your vote to F-16).

Four scum with 15 players seems shocking.

I think your case on F16 suggests bad/lazy play over scum play.

[Empking]

Still voting Nost.

[Empking]

Thinking about it, I can't shake the suspicion that F18's claim is almost too convenient. Is it worth having a massclaim today, before we hit lylo?

I don't think it'd help.

[Empking]

Thinking about it, I can't shake the suspicion that F18's claim is almost too convenient. Is it worth having a massclaim today, before we hit lylo?

I don't think it'd help.

What do you think will help, then?

Lynching Nost.

[Empking]

I'm truly shocked.

I thought it was a stupid question too.

[Empking]

Thinking about it, I can't shake the suspicion that F18's claim is almost too convenient. Is it worth having a massclaim today, before we hit lylo?

I don't think it'd help.

What do you think will help, then?

Lynching Nost.

Lynching Nost will help us figure out whether F16 is lying or not?

It'll help.

[Empking]

I don't think it'd help.

What do you think will help, then?

Lynching Nost.

Lynching Nost will help us figure out whether F16 is lying or not?

It'll help.

I don't see how.

If he's lying then he's scum, if Nost is scum then F16 is less likely to be scum. If he's not scum then he's not lying.

[Empking]

F16 claimed only 1-shot and that he investigated Jacob to be innocent. What has Nost's flip got to do with F16?

Today makes it clear that they're not both scum. When Nost flips scum then F16 will be cleared.

[Empking]

I support a Nost lynch.

[Empking]

what is the current vote tally, when does the day ends?

Nost has three. Nobody else has enough votes to mention.

Deadline in a bit less that five days.

People not voting Nost: Can I assume that you're going for a No Lynch?

[Empking]

Both Town players that scum chose to kill - Demon Core and Nero Cain - had strong suspicions of adorkable (Nostredeus). Both also had weaker suspicions of RedCoyote.

Out of Nostredeus and RedCoyote, I think Nostredeus is more likely to flip scum.

Here was the Vote Count when Nostredeus replaced in.

Untrod Tripod (4)- Empking, Plan B, JacobSavage, RedCoyote
Nostredeus (2)- 4nxi3ty, Gentlemen Bastards
Empking (1)- Untrod Tripod
4nxi3ty (1)- N

Not voting: F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Nostredeus

I think it makes sense for Nostredeus (as hypothetical scum) to settle on Empking if Untrod Tripod is Town. Nostredeus likely wouldn't want the outfall from pushing a mislynch to the brink. And, it's a powerful, but subtle, way to buddy up to Untrod Tripod by showing solidarity with the Townie under pressure. Plus, if Untrod Tripod went on to get lynched and flipped Town, it's good credit for Nostredeus.

I can see how Nostredeus as hypothetical Town could skim through and get a suspicion on Empking for play on the Toon Fighter lynch. But, I think ignoring the explanation and the context of Empking's play shows an irrationally firm stance. And, ignoring the similarity of how Untrod Tripod played on the Toon Fighter lynch shows a similar irrational adherence to his initial skim read.

Keep in mind that Nostredeus went to some lengths to explain just how quickly he ran through the thread and got those reads. Seems like a Townie who did that would be much more likely to be willing to reassess with more time to review and additional input from other players, as opposed to locking down on those first blush, skim reads.

[Empking]

There's two types of weak doctor there can be, either hider (Which we're doubting at the moment) and the other meaning of it is that it protects only one of two kills. For instance of X and Y shot Z and the doctor saved Z, Z would still die. We think that scum shot us N2 and we was on us then.

But we really should shut up about this until empking and rc claim.

This is...no. Are you saying that Reg said that?

Willing top claim with whatever order we get.

[Empking]

Yeah.

[Empking]

There's two types of weak doctor there can be, either hider (Which we're doubting at the moment) and the other meaning of it is that it protects only one of two kills. For instance of X and Y shot Z and the doctor saved Z, Z would still die. We think that scum shot us N2 and we was on us then.

But we really should shut up about this until empking and rc claim.

This is...no. Are you saying that Reg said that?

And I'd like an answer to this.

[Empking]

Yeah, that was me (Reg) and no? Pretty sure I've seen weak doctor be both of those in past games.[/quiote]

Pretty sure this is a normal game.

Anyway lets get a move on with the mass-claim. Empkings first.

VT

Can GB claim now.

[Empking]

Yeah, that was me (Reg) and no? Pretty sure I've seen weak doctor be both of those in past games.

Pretty sure this is a normal game.

Anyway lets get a move on with the mass-claim. Empkings first.

VT

Can GB claim now.

I messed up my quoted in the first post.

[Empking]

I don't know why you popcorned to GB. It's pretty obvious Anxiety targeted them at least once.

Why?

[Empking]

Because Anxiety was a weak doctor? If a weak doctor targets scum, they die.

And that causes 4nx to target GB, how?

[Empking]

Because Anxiety was a weak doctor? If a weak doctor targets scum, they die.

And that causes 4nx to target GB, how?

Because 4nx had GB as a townread. 2+2=4.

He really didn't breadcrumb though (except UT), GB does make most sense as his N2 target however (mostly for 'Why not sheep Reg'.)

[Empking]

Also fuck holding cards close to our chest, we're pretty sure Empking is a SK, we thought he was a vig, or odd night vig earlier which is why we thought he was town but the flip of 4nxiety and his claim means that it's very very very likely he's a SK. Again more detail later and we think RC is scum, poe alongside with his interactions with all flipped scum and his flip of his read on us now as a pre-emptive defence which is the exact same fucking thing that F-16 did against us really solidifies that.

RC claimed BP; he's pretty clearly a SK.

[Empking]

RC claimed BP; he's pretty clearly a SK.

I'm not sure why a serial killer would be so blatant. If he's sk, he could have very easily claimed vig; I mean, if he is, he's shot two mafia and at least one highly-suspected/null town.

The set up clearly made a Vig a fake claim. BP is more eh; sop is why a BP SK would claim that.

[Empking]

I'm really annoyed at ArcAngel right now. We have 5 days until deadline and she's pretty much refusing to join in the massclaim.

RC claimed BP; he's pretty clearly a SK.

I'm not sure why a serial killer would be so blatant. If he's sk, he could have very easily claimed vig; I mean, if he is, he's shot two mafia and at least one highly-suspected/null town.

The set up clearly made a Vig a fake claim. BP is more eh; sop is why a BP SK would claim that.

I'm not sure what "sop" is a typo for. "Cop" or "so" (or something else)?

so (which would probably be better)

[Empking]

Arc doessc seem like probable wscum. I think RC is 100% though.

[Empking]

and what are you reasons Empking? can you list out?

You:
1. Delay in claiming

RC:
1. BP claim.

[Empking]

Emp, why would I softclaim as SK?

You weren't 'softclaiming' on purpose.

[Empking]

Vote: RC

[Empking]

Vote: N

- That response doesn't look genuine.

[Empking]

N: Did we both kill GB in order to hit the opposite scum? If so, considering the lack of suspicion of him during the days, that amuses me,.

[Empking]

Empking, when you hammered me, what were you thinking I would flip?

Town.