Large Normal 228: Bananas - Game Over
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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It's not, but I'm sick atm and it's all I can be assed to give at the moment.
Why does scum!me hard stall the Wake wagon, drawing attention to myself, when it's the IC that is fast pushing the elimination? Wouldn't it be better to take the time during the night for build stronger fake reads and get a better feel for the gamestate?
Pedit: I haven't even read A50's points. Again, sick.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Yeah, that's how it happened. And for full disclosure, if you told players from my old site that I replaced back in after mafia died D1, they would tell you it's more likely that I'm mafia than town. Back on my old site I tried to solo carry games and was known for lone wolfing and bussing as mafia. Nowadays I play mafia more as a team game, so I'd say that I probably wouldn't have replaced back in if I were mafia. Can't say for sure, given that I'm not mafia, but I don't think present!me would. Prime!Me would have years ago, but prime!me was only so good at being scum because he was a borderline pathological liar who could convince people of basically anything because by saying it he actually believed it to be true. Thank goodness I got that worked out over the years.In post 1914, Almost50 wrote:Let's talk this out with sense: I personally do NOT replace out even if it looks like my team is going down. That is called RESPECT. Respect to the mod, to your fellow players (all of them) and to yourself. After all it's only a game.
Now you established that you replaced out for IRL reasons, which is very much acceptable. That -also- means you would NOT have replaced out if you didn't get sick. Correct? You wanted to PLAY the game (whether you win or lose is irrelevant because alignments are randomized and there's always one side that wins and one that loses). You saw the slot was available again and you were getting better IRL so you wanted back into the game you had originally intended to play.
That's NOT AI. That is RESPECTABLE.
I disagree. Personally I think replacing into a game inIn post 1915, Almost50 wrote:@LL: By your logic, neither I nor Norwee could be scum either. We both replaced into slots that were occupied by known lurkers, and thus were at a disadvantage regardless of alignments.anyslot after mafia dies D1 is silly, because as mafia you might already be mechanically lost and as town your effort is less meaningful given that town's already in a good gamestate, but that's just my opinion. I don't see why other people couldn't replace in either hoping they were town or not realizing what the game state looked like. If you are a stat-chaser then maybe you could justify replacing into these games because random chance has it that you are town and town is already winning, but I really hope nobody cares about their stats enough to do that.
Pedit: A50 is probably scum based on that wagon, but I also realize that if I dislike a person's attitude I tend towantthem to be scum. A50's tone was incredibly dickish and condescending when he came into the game, so I might have been confbiasing reads onto him. I need to revisit a lot of topics if I'm in ELo, but I think I'm still leaning mafia on A50 preliminarily just because of the Drew wagon dynamics. I think in the case that 2 mafia were on the Drew wagon, then it would have been too easy for him to live if they just laid low.
Pedit 2: I'm not sure if that analysis is good to make right now.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Gonna be honest, I'm getting over a recent relapse in my depression, and I was myself extremely toxic in a game recently because I'm not good at separating my emotions IRL from my play in-game. I'd rather not throw stones from a glass house, so unless you can give me reasons why it's more relevant than other topics, I'm going to avoid further discussing it.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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A50, do you think my crumbs believing you were doctor tracing all the way back to D2 were fake? If they are legitimate, then there's no reason for you to have lived as long as you did.
It's less about you being town and more about Norwegian being scum. The NK is the only viable option for Norwegian. Titus was scum on him. I was willing to vote either way. You were leaning towards voting me. If you die, I obviously never vote the IC and then Norwegian loses. If I die, you and Titus vote Norwegian.
I revisited the wagons overnight and it makes sense for Drew to be double bussed given that Norwegian was on early and Nahdia made the mistake of lingering around so she was forced into hammering or looking scummy AF for refusing to.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Why is it a huge risk to vote you over A50 immediately? Wouldn't the risk be in voting immediately, period?In post 1965, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Why should i be arguing that when you've already taken a HUGE risk (Which was assuming you were town) in voting me over A50 immediately?-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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This is not a genuine reaction from somehow who was considering the possibility of A50 scum earlier (which you know he was because he didn't vote me earlier and he was asking my opinion on A50). If he genuinely believed A50 could be scum, he's trying to get me to unvote before A50 hammers. He knows A50 isn't going to fast hammer.
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Keep in mind Cakez was the mafia NK N3. Why would Cakez be the night kill? Because he was pushing Norwegian for several days. Cakez wasn't exactly the towniest person in the game. To NK a likely miselimination means that mafia was threatened by him.
Pedit: Yeah, I was. And I also realized that I was scumreading him because I didn't like him. Multiple times I read shit he said, misunderstood it at first and just assumed it was coming from a scummy place when every time he was able to explain what he meant and I realized I was just hyperfixating on him. Your play here is textbook scum ELo, that's why you get instavoted by me. You have no intention to solve the game. Your entire approach is to get A50 and I to shade each other. You are trying to keep as many options available as possible, not find mafia.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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I dunno about you, but I'll take a 99% chance to win every single game.In post 1970, Almost50 wrote:
You know, if I was Mafia here I'd have made you look like a fool. Then again, you KNOW that would be the case, so the only way you do that (vote first, without a discussion and without a case) is if you know that vote does NOT win the town the game. In other words, you cannot lose "because" you voted so hastily, because you know neither of the two other is Mafia.. if that makes any sense to you.In post 1952, LuckyLuciano wrote:I suggest A50 hammers you and town wins.
Let me retry: Let's assume you are Town. The Town thinks X is scum (even by 99%) and would still consider that 1% possibility that Y is scum. Town does NOT vote X before they've at least provided a case on why they think it's X and not Y because if that 1% is true they instantly lose.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Mini Normal Butterfly. 3v2 and I voted a player to prove they are scum because they wouldn't be hammered.In post 1972, NorwegianboyEE wrote:In what WORLD does town play like LL does here in LYLO?-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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These are bullet points. Let me know if you want to talk about any of them in depth.In post 1974, Almost50 wrote:
I would like to see that still. It could be beneficial. Plus I promised Titus to reconsider Nowee, and I am a man of my word. I make no promises that your case would change my view, but let's hear it anyway.In post 1957, LuckyLuciano wrote:@A50, I can lay out why I voted EE if you want, but it's always EE so w/e.
(1) I've been wrong a lot this game, so I'm reevaluating what other players have said.
(a) Titus wanted Norwegian
(i) Titus thought you were town
(b) Cakez wanted Norwegian
(2) Norwegian's play this game is not genuine coming from town. Town wants to find mafia. They are looking for reasons why players could be mafia, and why they could be town. Norwegian is being careful not to upset either of us while also trying to direct both of us towards each other with his questions. Reread his questions this game, look at the trajectories he's trying to establish in our reads. He's not upset that I voted him, but that I'm not considering you.
(3) Titus is the only NK that allows Norwegian to win. If I die, you and Titus vote Norwegian. If you die, Titus and I vote Norwegian.
(a) If you NK Titus, you lose since, as Norwegian loves to point out, I was leaning you yesterday. If you Norwegian, you risk losing depending on how Titus sways. If you NK me, you just win. This is both the best NK for Norwegian and the worst NK for you. If I'm mafia, I'm NKing A50 and winning by voting Norwegian with Titus.
(4) Norwegian earlier said that I can't be scum if I actually thought you were doc. I've laid out all the places I hinted at believing you were doc. They ignored that because townreading me cuts off one of their paths to victory.
(5) I don't think scum!A50 is as openly hostile towards other players, suicidal, and just a plan asshole. Part of winning is making people like you. You tried your darnedest to make sure that wouldn't happen.
I can also try to town!case myself if that helps, but really this game is easy.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Cool, so let's talk about this. Why did I hard stall the Wake wagon at L-1 when the IC was pushing for a quicklynch before I finished catching up. If I think you're doc, doesn't this allow me to eliminate the Doc while distancing myself from responsibility for the wagon?In post 1979, Almost50 wrote:
If I was Mafia and I knew there was a Doctor and I assumed they'd be on the IC all the time, it would have been suboptimal for me to shoot them before I got rid of the SK. Even by day (the elimination) it would always be better for me to land it on someone else who just might be the SK instead.In post 1966, LuckyLuciano wrote:A50, do you think my crumbs believing you were doctor tracing all the way back to D2 were fake? If they are legitimate, then there's no reason for you to have lived as long as you did.
So, I am leaning towards you actually believing I was Doc. It makes sense for Scum!you to defend me by day (towncred) and avoid shooting me at night (hunting for the SK)-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Another big thing for me is that Norwegian lied about not participating in this game D2 because they were mentally exhausted. They were active for days in other games but refused to play here. They only got more active after a miselim and another night of 2 dead townies. Feels like they were demotivated after Drew died and then got motivated again when they saw they still had a chance.
Pedit: Sure. You can dismiss WIFOM as WIFOM if you want. There's still the fact that it takes more effort to convince someone with WIFOM than to just take the easy road.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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In post 1925, LuckyLuciano wrote:A50 is probably scum based on that wagon, but I also realize that if I dislike a person's attitude I tend to want them to be scum. A50's tone was incredibly dickish and condescending when he came into the game, so I might have been confbiasing reads onto him.
Like, if my scumread of A50 is self-admittedly confbiased due to thinking he's condescending, why would Norwegian want me to go back to talking about A50 being condescending? Does he want me to reignite a confbiased push, or does he want me and A50 to get into an emotional conflict? What's the town motive for this question?In post 1926, NorwegianboyEE wrote:What about A50 was condescending?
Pedit: Yes, I am. Considering you explicitly lied about why you were lurking, I am indeed doing so.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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In post 1937, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Hmm. This was unexpected. I’d expect A50 to be the kill assuming scum!LL. I’m goong to have to read over the game again. Nobody place any votes yet please.
Typically when people act like they know why a player was killed or should have been killed as soon as the day goes up, they are mafia.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"Hey guys, I'm going to keep my options open and proceed to shade both players and try to instigate both players to shade each other."In post 1938, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Time for the good old LYLO paranoia to set in. I would most likely vote LL here, but i can’t completely deny the possibility of A50 having tried to pocket me either.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"Come on Lucky, let's get A50!"In post 1939, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
What were your reasons for TR’ing Nahdia here?In post 1341, Almost50 wrote:Also Nahdia's definitely Town. This game is easy (well, easy to scum hunt for the main team at least. If there's a SK -as was indicated by the two NKs on N1- then I am at a loss of who that might be, but still those I called TOWN already are not it.)-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"Gotta look like I'm solving and think A50 can be town."In post 1940, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Oh shit.In post 1349, Almost50 wrote:
Personally I'd go for all-town (or -at leat- Mafia-free)Black Ranger wrote:Umlaut: how pure is this wagon?
ManateeDude (6) -bob3141, Umlaut,Titus, Nahdia, SirCakez,osuka[L-2]
Well other than THAT, i think A50's ISO is relatively townie and i stand by what i've said regarding him earlier.
In post 1941, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
This was quite dumb though.In post 1696, Almost50 wrote:You know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking of No Elimination. Scum can shoot each other or can shoot town. If they both shoot town though they make the last townie as a kingmaker. If only one of then shoot town and the other shoots the opposing scum we're in a 2v1 Elo. If they both shoot each other we win.
"Just kidding, that makes it harder to win, doh!"
"See A50, it's notIn post 1942, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Oh and a self-vote too. A50, why do you do this? *facepalm*In post 1724, Almost50 wrote:Actually, you know what? My lynch doesn't hurt the town that much. It just brings the 2-1-1 situation right now, and whichever of you doesn't kill the other loses. The only difference is you can both agree to share the win (which would be lame tbh).
So, let me help you there:
VOTE: A50myfault I can't townread you, please don't hold it against me and vote me, it'syourfault."-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"I'm going to reinforce A50's scumread on LL."In post 1943, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Yeah this points to scum!LL though.In post 1748, Almost50 wrote:And THAT is one reason why I prefer Nor to win if he is not Town. He's playing the correct way (from my own PoV). JV/LL coming at me is really bad play. They should have -at least- considered each other, which they didn't. (JV for no real reason, and LL because he's trying to twist everything into a narrative that fits his agenda and is often retracting when it's made obvious he is going astray)-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"I'm going to reinforce LL's scumread on A50."
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"I'm going to reinforce A50's scumread on LL."In post 1947, NorwegianboyEE wrote:But wouldn't LL want to kill you and capitalize on Titus scumreading me. According to yourself?-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"I'm not going to ask LL to unvote, because I
knowA50 isn't scum so I'm still safe. Let me shade LL for voting me."-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"LL isn't allowed to change his mind. Why is he not voting A50? This is so unfair!"In post 1958, NorwegianboyEE wrote:LL, that's quite the difference in attitude towards A50 from post 1796 and post 1802 yesterday.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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"LL, you are supposed to be voting A50!"In post 1961, NorwegianboyEE wrote:In post 1925, LuckyLuciano wrote:A50 is probably scum based on that wagon, but I also realize that if I dislike a person's attitude I tend to want them to be scum. A50's tone was incredibly dickish and condescending when he came into the game, so I might have been confbiasing reads onto him. I need to revisit a lot of topics if I'm in ELo, but I think I'm still leaning mafia on A50 preliminarily just because of the Drew wagon dynamics. I think in the case that 2 mafia were on the Drew wagon, then it would have been too easy for him to live if they just laid low.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Was my slot online during EoD? Also I think Nahdia said she'd be around for EoD, I'd have to check. Either way she did hammer, and the context of EoD iirc was that she was expected to. I don't think having a partner on the wagon changes the fact that she had to hammer.In post 1992, Almost50 wrote:
That part in particular threw me off. I didn't understand why Nahdia needed to be online at this precise time. It may have had to do with that other game I linked, maybe.. but I still think she could have avoided this thread, and especially so if he partner was already on the wagon (thus lynching off the wagon was fine still).In post 1966, LuckyLuciano wrote:I revisited the wagons overnight and it makes sense for Drew to be double bussed given that Norwegian was on early and Nahdia made the mistake of lingering around so she was forced into hammering or looking scummy AF for refusing to.
The interesting part is that your slot didn't join that wagon, and -even more interesting- both NKs were on the wagon.
The next night Umlaut (also on the wagon) was shot. Someone was hunting for the SK. If Nahdia had jumped on the wagon knowing her p was also on then it must have been to limit the pool for them to hunt for the SK, but that is certainly not a good reason to hammer your p with as little time left of the day.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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You weren't ready for him to hammer earlier? Interesting.In post 2000, NorwegianboyEE wrote:You can keep up this circus. I’m taking a break.
A50, if you got any questions then just ask me. Otherwise i’m ready for you to hammer now.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Hey A50, remember that analysis you thought I was too new to make? That based on wagon dynamics one of Cakez / Nahdia had to be scum? Now that you know that I'm not too new to mafia to be able to make that sort of claim, do you really think I set up that analysis and continually asked people for their opinions on it if Nahdia was my last partner?-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Like, this should be obvious as fuck. We may not have gotten along throughout the game, but at least I've been open with my thought process throughout the entire game. Before everyone decided that despite my constant prodding they just weren't going to do fuck all day 2 I was pretty fucking motivated to get the game back up and running. My play D2 makes no sense for promoting a winning gamestate as mafia. Letting a demotivated town fuck-it eliminate the player I read as doc and then become even more demoralized because they are doing fuck all and getting punished for it is best case scenario if I'm scum. Taking the spotlight to stall that wagon and demand we sort between my partner and a player the IC townreads is dumb af.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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And again, it's more that Norwegian is playing scum ELo 101 than me being convinced you are town. They have done everything they are supposed to do as scum. If you want to hammer me I don't really care, I stopped caring about this game a loooong time ago lmao. Just vote someone so we can move on with our lives.In post 1980, LuckyLuciano wrote:(5) I don't think scum!A50 is as openly hostile towards other players, suicidal, and just a plan asshole. Part of winning is making people like you. You tried your darnedest to make sure that wouldn't happen.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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If the condition for you townreading me is me proving that I knew with 100% certainty that you are town, then just hammer me, because it's not going to happen. I don't believe in guarantees in mafia. You only know what's likely and what's not. I made up my mind, so I voted. If you don't like it, oh well.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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What are the rules for prodging at ELo? If my vote is down do I have to come back every few days and say "Nowegian is still scum." Or can I just dip out while A50 runs circles around himself?
Pedit: I don't think he responded saying it should apply to me being mafia, he responded by saying he suddenly doesn't believe that I actually thought you were doc anymore. He didn't attack the conclusion of my logic, but tried to attack the legitimacy of my initial read, yet he never responded to the post where I traced me thoughts on you being doc.
Pedit 2: Yep, and then by EoD I realized that I was confbiasing you. Dude, just hammer me if you are so convinced it's me. I really don't care if we win this or lose this. I just want this game to be over.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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You got me. I'm the Godfather. Sucks to be me I guess. /shrugIn post 2019, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Lmao dude, just scumclaim already.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Yet you are making arguments about how players would perceive Titus' historical tendency to read you. LOL.In post 2025, Almost50 wrote:
Not sure. I can't remember.In post 1984, LuckyLuciano wrote:Has Norwegian played with you and Titus at the same time before?-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Dude, just hammer me. It's so obvious that you are going to vote me. Why are you even dragging out this game if you have no intention of actually sorting out our alignments? You want me to be wrong, you are going to vote me, you are going to justify the vote with "I'd rather lose to Norwegian than Lucky", and then in post game you are going to blame me. Let's start working our way through the steps.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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You know what you also weren't in the game for? The gamestate D2. Your catchup had no mention of timestamps or how infrequent posting had gotten from almost every slot. I don't blame you for not realizing how obvtown I am because you weren't actually there to experience how I was the only player in the fucking game trying to generate content from every slot while the consensus was "Eh, we'll do nothing until the deadline and then flashwagon again... Oh hey, Titus wants to eliminate the lurker? Fuck it, Titus said so, let's do it!"-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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I mean, yeah. Nothing A50 has done today indicates that he actually cares to sort us. It's clear he wants me to lose more than he wants to win.In post 2030, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Yeah it's obvious you've given up.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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In post 2036, Almost50 wrote:Baked could be swapped with Cakez between the two pools
You aren't even trying to solve. You are pretending to solve.-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
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Let's play a game. It's 7:48am where I am. Since A50 is just dragging on the game needlessly when he knows he's already decided where he is going to vote, I will be self-hammering at noon. That is 4 hours and 12 minutes from now. I will be around in the meantime if he actually wants to put forth a genuine effort, but I'm not going to entertain him egostroking a disingenuous attempt to solve. Is that enough time for you A50?-
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
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