Mini 566: Justice League Mafia Game Over
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Superman wasn't the first thing I thought of, but I'm not going to share either.WhoMe? wrote:
I know my theory on why he did it, but until he tells us himself, i don't want to give him ideas, if he is scum.cicero wrote:Why would riktus soft-claim superman in his very first post?Unvote. Vote Riktus
Try to look townie much, evildoer?-
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...I'm not stating my opinion on what I think he's doing, but can you think of a good reason why anybody would half-out themselves on page 1 in a game?Sierra wrote:
If Riktus was breadcrumbing/softclaiming, isn't the entire point of it kinda lost when he has to explain himself?Mirth wrote:
I have thought. I want him to explain why he made a spectacle of himself.Capricious wrote:
Think.Mirth wrote:
Why?Capricious wrote:I don't think his poem meant anything, and if it did, I'd rather not have him explain.
I don't recognize his speech as typical for one the justice league characters. If asking him to explain himself would mean he has to reveal his role, then I oppose that. It's not a good idea to have someone roleclaim this early in the game. If Riktus can explain his speech without unveiling his role, that's fine with me.-
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Except that probably the one time where you just let someone off for a post restriction without giving them grief is the one time its scum faking. Because that's how Murphy's Law works.cicero wrote: That having been said, there's little else to talk about. It raised my eyebrows because, well, it was out of the ordinary. I mean... who does that? Why do that? Was it just a justice league joke or is it a post restriction? Is it an incredibly obvious breadcrumb? And if so, is it real? Mirth is right in suggesting that if its a post restriction we should know about it now and watch it to see if it's real. The reason being that mafia barely ever get post restrictions. So it can be used to look like a townie.
I have a theory as to who he might be, but its rather far fetched and I'm sure as heck no sharing. Just want to know what's up with the post restriction.
And I think the anti-America stuff was just general America-bashing which is al the rage nowadays and has nothing to do with the game at all.-
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I'm still sort of V/LA, but I managed to snag a few minutes to check my games.
unvote: whoever I'm voting right now
vote: whoever suggested mass-claiming on day 1...cicero?
I do not believe in claiming unless absolutely necessary. I.E. not out of the blue on page 3. Don't need to go int the glaringly obviou reasons for why. Maybe you could provide me with a reason for asking? Looks like role fishing to me. Role fishing with a stick of dynamite.
Now I'm going back to being V/LA.-
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Except it isn't. He has a whole 2 posts. We don't know what the restriction is and whether or not its real. And I wouldn't hound him if he felt like answering. General law of Mirthdom: if you don't answer a question, I will bother you. A lot. Until you want to hit me with something blunt and heavy to shut me up.WhoMe? wrote: It was obvious from the first thatriktushad a post restriction hounding him about it serves no purpose at this stage of the game.-
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You, for asking, probably.Thesp wrote:Mirth, who's scum? Pick three.
I can't tell you who's scum on *page 4.* Try asking me something easier.
@ Cicero: ...wait...you're saying that TSQ was demanding explanatins from other people?!? LIES!
@ Capricious: unless of course the scum have no safeclaims and in getting everyone elses role name go ahead and make up safeclaims for themselves off the Justice League roster. Also just knowing a person's name isn't going to help town any more than it will help scum. Therefore it is bad, bad, very bad. I am tempted to switch my vote from Cicero to you.
I also still want to hear more from Riktus.-
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Of course I'm no fun. Did Haschel forget to warn everyone else in this game who has yet to come across me that I'm no fun at all?Thesp wrote:
You're no fun.Mirth wrote:I can't tell you who's scum on *page 4.* Try asking me something easier.
actr, since Mirth won't play with me, can you tell me who the three scum are?
Also why do you say 3 scum? We don't know how many scum we have, unless there's something you're not telling us, Thesp.-
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Holy coronary artery disease, Batman! It appears that you evil twin is clogging up this poor man's circulation!Thesp wrote:
Lies. BATMNAN is in your heart - he's in everyone's heart. And someone's role PM.Haschel Cedricson wrote:
BATMNAN is the superhero who shows up when I'm drunk and can't figure out how to turn off the Caps Lock.Thesp wrote:I think it's more important to figure out who BATMNAN is.
Sorry...I couldn't help myself
Hey, Thesp, you want to add me to the Open list? Pretty please with sugar on top? I'll give you a cookie and a pony?Disclaimer: No, I won't actually. I'm not that nice-
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I did read your comment. Don't think its necessarily obvious that you're pushing for conversation. Took me a while to figure it out myself (note how I have my vote on you at some point for suggesting mass claim. I am very against claiming unless absolutely necessary). See no problem in him being suspicious of you. He's not voting you so you're overreacting I think. It reeks of OMGUS, anyway.
As for Capricious, I unvoted him because I don't like the idea of L-2 on page 5 with not very much practicle conversation. I'm reconsidering it because he keeps pushing the mass-caim isnt bad and might be good point. See previous comment about how I think claims are bad. (I also think that Zoneace was too hasty with his vote, which might have prompted Capricious, who is already all gungho pro-claiming into actually claiming under threat of lynch, which if he's just a misguided townie, could have been bad.)
And now I'm going to sleep.-
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Or you know, I voted for you while I was still sort of V/La and kind of distracted and totally missed that part. And mention of mass claim = sets off warning bells.
My vote was an honest vote. And right now it feels like dancing like a spastic monkey.
No response to my opinion that you're being too OMGUSy at Haschel?-
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Thesp: Why are you defending Capricious?
Cicero: Note how I'm not harassing you about your mass claim comments. I did reread. Otherwise I would have continued. I do think your reaction to Haschel was too strong though. You're right about the way he posts though. Which is why I said I have no opinion of him and won't for a long while. I think he's impossible to get a read on.
Zoneace: Are you sure he's scum? On page 7? Why so hasty?
Cicero: I can't place that quote, but I'm tempted to declare my love for you for bringing up the Fountainhead.
Zoneace: so anyone who disagrees with your theory is a suspect?
Whome: how can we be successful in getting scum to claim first if we dont know who the scum are? Unless you're not telling us something?
Thesp: why are you happy with your vote?
Capricious: why are you stubbornly refusing to gt the point that mass claim helps scum more than town?-
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Except that this depends entirely on luck as you mentioned. And scum might have safe claims anyway. (There are a gagillion Justic League characters. We don't know what the mod is up to.) A few too many what ifs in my opinion. And even if the scum claim first, they might still claim some obscure if viable character that no one else has because we don't know how mainstream the mod is going with the roles. So I fail to see any merits in your point. Also, we don't know how many and what type of scum we have. Just one mafia group? mafia and SK? two smaller mafia factions? We don't know what to look for. And are the badguys really Justice Leaue universe badguys or just heroes the mod decided were bad guys for the sake of this game.WhoMe? wrote:
I just mean the popcorn method. If the town is lucky with their picks, scum feature further up the list, so there is more chance of a counter claim as they have less info to make up their claims from.Mirth wrote: Whome: how can we be successful in getting scum to claim first if we dont know who the scum are? Unless you're not telling us something?
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Maybe I'm being daft, but I don't get it?Thesp wrote:Also, this is what a massclaim would look like, anyway.
Khelvaster, did you actually read the game? Because it's really not that long. And won't take that much effort. What with half the people not posting and all. Why are you continuing to beat the dead horse with the stick? I think we've sufficiently checked its pulse and come to the conclusion that its no more, its has ceased to be, its expired and gone to meet its maker.-
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A. Riktus has 2 posts. 2. One cannot have a good idea of who is town from a whole 2 posts, most of which are flavor. It is also page 8.Capricious wrote: Other good candidates for scum: take your pick of people on my wagon. Scum like reasonable wagons where they won't appear suspicious, and my wagon fits because I was arguing for mass claim: a play that is traditionally viewed as bad. Therefore, scum feels they can look justified to wagon me.
Good candidates for town: Riktus, his post restriction feels genuine, I already have a good idea of who he is, and would be surprised if he is not revealed as that character. This is also why we need a replacement for Riktus: to test his post restriction.
B. Or, you know, you could be scum yourself, since that is who'd benefit most from a mass claim. You're also playing the "they voted me so they must be scum" card.-
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Simulpost. Darn
WhoMe, why did you just claim a named role? You don't know for a fact if the rest of us have names, and if we're smart about it, none of us are going to tell you.WhoMe? wrote:Some of the town might not have names? Are you kidding me. Who in the justice league doesn't have a name? We all have names, even the scum I expect - tho their names will be Lex Leuthor etc etc-
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I'm not going to comment one way or the other other than you possibly said too much. Possibly not. Just wish you didn't say anything.WhoMe? wrote:how many nameless civvies do you suppose would be in Justice league HQ?
Cicero: why do you say you don't think actr will be around very long? Planning to kill him or something?-
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It's not so obvious if I have to ask. So you're saying its okay to be abrasive, just not in your general direction?cicero wrote: The context of the post is obvious. I think he's not interested in the game and will eventually stop coming back to the board. As newbies often do. And I am challenging him to prove me wrong. How is that hard to see?-
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I did not have to ask, just as I do not have to do anything. But I wanted it clarified. And I wanted to get a reaction out of you. (I could have asked in a more neutral manner, agreed). Right now I'm still reaction testing, though.
My comment to abrasiveness is in reference to your post in response to Capricious about why you were "goading" actr "harshly". Perhaps I should have included context. Question still stands though-
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No, *you're* playing the semantics game with me now. Clarificiation *was* needed. I never negated that. Your original statement was not clear enough, I believe. I could have asked for clarification neutrally, though, which I believe is your problem with my asking, since I chose to do so in a manner almost guarenteed to get you to react negatively.
Maybe I'm being abrasive to you because I can't make you out yet. It does worry me, however, that when I question you, and when Haschel questioned your motives before, you respond only with attacks. I have no opinion of actr as of yet, as he has said nothing remotely of value, and that registers as a null to me. I could ask him nicely to actually contribute, but I don't think he'll react either way, honestly.-
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I know I said I'd be back today, but the rest of this week is going to be oodles of Not!Fun (tm) and I think this is all I'll manage until Sunday.
Cicero 199: You seemed to have missed the fact that my original question was twofold. I asked
So to say that I didn't actually need clarifying is offbase. The first part was in fact a valid question, that, I admittedly could have left at just that. The second was just reaction fishing, yes.Mirth wrote: Cicero: why do you say you don't think actr will be around very long? Planning to kill him or something?
Thesp, 200: I think you crossed out the wrong part there.
Khelvaster, 201: Maybe if you read all the arguements against claiming, you'd see that there have been arguments thrown out against *both* mass roleclaiming and mass name claiming
Roffman 210: then perhaps throw something else out there if you don't like how the discussion is going.
Khelvaster 211: You're *still* trying to push for a mass claim? Sweet baby jesus on toast, did you read *any* of the points against claiming?
And now back to Not!Fun time.-
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Argh. Back from real life...
I seem to have not missed much.
I meant to do this earlier:
unvote:Zoneace
I still think you were a bit hasty with the L-2, but considering how annoyingly persistent Capricious is still being, I now no longer blame you.
Speaking of Capricious, why is he still pushing the point? I'm not liking that Khelvaster chimed in.
On that, Thesp makes an interesting point that Capricious could be a townie. While I don't necessarily agree with it, I'm starting to think that either Capricious or Khelvaster is scum. Probably not both because that would involve some really dumb scum basically outing themselves together (unless we have 2 scum factions). One of them could be tryin to take advantage of the others ridiculous idea. If that's the case I'm leaning toward Khelvaster for not talking for a while, and then chiming in with th call for a claim.
Ooba: your refusal to explain your post restriction is noted. I will lay off for now, but thats only because I have a theory about what your post restriction is. I shall be watching your posts to see if there is a pattern.-
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Darwin damnit, Whome! Why in the seven blazes of the not fun not happy place below did yo have to just *confirm* you're a power role? (Or scum. Either fits)WhoMe? wrote:
FOS Thesp.Thesp wrote: More lynching of WhoMe?, please. Thanks!
So you want to lynch the one person who has hung themselves out by stating they believe there are no vanilla pro-townies in the game, thus effectively admitting I have both a name and a power. Explain please?
Seriously? Why?-
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My comment boiled down to "why the heck did you do that and stop it." Now you went and crossed the rhetoric line and softclaimed. Softclaims are bad, bad, very bad. Now we have a problem. Do we left the softclaim slide? Or do we force a full claim out of you so you can't use other people as a guage for what roles are available?WhoMe? wrote:
? I outed myself several posts ago. you commented at the time. Given that it's already out there there's no point my being coy about it.Mirth wrote:
Darwin damnit, Whome! Why in the seven blazes of the not fun not happy place below did yo have to just *confirm* you're a power role? (Or scum. Either fits)WhoMe? wrote:
FOS Thesp.Thesp wrote: More lynching of WhoMe?, please. Thanks!
So you want to lynch the one person who has hung themselves out by stating they believe there are no vanilla pro-townies in the game, thus effectively admitting I have both a name and a power. Explain please?
Seriously? Why?
Hmmm...hard choice. I thnk soft claims are a cardinal sin...but then again I'm also pretty much anti-claiming until its unavoidably necessary.-
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That sounds like some kind of lawn care deviceMr_Gnome_It_All wrote: Now firing up the ModProd UltraDeluxe!™
Whome, what you did wrong is confirmed it. Unless you're scum yourself, you just basically painted a big "kill me" sign on your back for tonight. (Well...there are other factors involved here, but I'm not going to speculate because that might make things worse). You also softclaimed. "I'm an unspecified power role" which opens up a can of worms for WIFOM and counterclaiming in the future.
Now then, I urge you to say nothing more until there's a town concensus on what the best course of action in regards to your soft claim should be.-
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Roffman, how come yu've had nothing much else to say before this.
I'm not going to argue the stupidity of massclaiming any longer because its obvious the two of you are willfully ignoring everything said against them. I don't think both of you are scum, as that woud be too fortunate, but one of you most probably is. I am leaning toward Khelvaster at the moment, but not by much.
Capricious: you never answered my question 3 posts ago. Also do *you* have a reason to vote Roffman now? Can you explain why he's the best candidate for scum?-
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Mod:you might want to check your vote count. I distinctly remember unvoting Zoneace.
Capricious: why are you avoiding answering my questions? Also why are you misdirecting the conversation? It should be obvious that finding scum and discussion of massclaims are not mutually exclusive, as you're trying to suggest with the not-so-subtle "leave us alone, go scumhunt" you're trying to pull.-
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EBWOP: almost missed Thesp's question there.
Thesp, the Justice League has a lot of members. Scum can just claim some random obscure member or someone not yet mentioned. What town learns from a nameclaim is names of characters, some of which might not be trust worthy. (We don't know how the mod assigned scum roles, whether they're villians or heroes randomly assigned as scum, whether they have safe claims, etc.) Scum learns the same thing, but they also get a head start on the role hunting. To use a nonjustice league example because i really rather not speculate about roles in this game: Suppose we're in a fantasy theme game, everyone has a role. Lets assume townies claim some of the following: elf, ranger, high priest, archer, farmer, etc. Even if the correlation is not one to one, it is more probable that the elf would be the doctor based on the innateness of the character name. And even if the elf is not the doctor, he is probably much more likely to be a power role than the farmer. While we can argue back and forth that character name does not necessarily give away power role, its still too much of a starting point. The scum already have a heads up on town in that they know who is on their side. Why should we do anything that might add to their already existent advantage?-
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Sigh. I give up on the semantics debate.
Capricious, in terms of superheroes, since you still don't get it, here is a better analogy: Lets say we have a game with Aquaman and Superman. Who are scum more likely to go after based on just name information? My point is not that it is necessary it is that even that smidgen of a hint is *bad*. This is *not* an invitation to try and guess which superhero has what powers. This is just a statement that in the Justice League universe there exist power imbalances, and it more likely for scum, once everyone has name claimed, to go after the more powerful character from comic knowledge because there will probably be a sync up.
Also you still have not answered my questions about why you were suspicious of me before and why you think Roffman is scum. Why are you avoiding them?-
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I halfway second that. At first I thought Khelvester was possible scum going along with the bad idea of a dense townie. Now I'm nt too surecicero wrote:I fel like there is some unspoken role-based motive going on with capricious and/or khelvester. They want this too badly and are far too thick about it. :/-
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Unless of course one of the scum has Superman as a safeclaim because there is no Superman in the game. (This is just the kind of speculation I wished to avoid, but your blindness to the possibilities makes it unavoidable). You also can't predict that someone will have the bulletproof townie ability. More likely than not they don't. So then you're just exposing potential powerroles with no guarenteed gain.Khelvaster wrote: And this is exactly *why* I advocated a mass nameclaim. Let's say Superman can't be nightkilled as his special ability. If I were Superman, I would nameclaim, be targetted by scum, and deny them their NK.
I'm not saying I am superman--this is just an example of why nameclaiming isn't necessarily a bad idea. Also, if we get really obscure claims, that helps us narrow down the scum (Superman probably isn't scum.)-
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Capricious: could you please condense your posts?
Ooba: I'm indecisive. I don't know about scum candidates, but here is what I find even mildly suspicious, so far, in no particular order, just things I'll be watching:
Zoneace: pushing a bandwagon too strongly too early. If Capricious is scum, I'd be more suspicious of him. I'm laying off for now though because I'm more interested in figuring out whether Khelvester or Capricious is where my vote if going.
Roffman: admits to lurking because the discussion is not productive. Why not make try to turn the conversation in a manner that he does like?
Ooba: still watching your restriction. I'm not just going to trust on blind faith that you're town because you seem to have one.
Cicero: the whole long debate with me.
everyone else I don't have much of a read on yet. Whether its because theyre not posting very much or because theyve yet to say anything worth watching.
The main thing I'm thinking right now is this:
While Capricious is obviously pushing the issue way more than Khelvester, he may just be genuinely dense. I don't know. (See, Hascel, I learned ^___^) But he is pushing awfully hard. Khelvester is kind of egging this whole thing on from the sidelines. I very much would like to vote Capricious for the blatantness, but part of me thinks that Khelvester would probably have a bigger chance of being scum because of the lack of originality and the subtleness of what he is pushing.-
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Thought I'd throw my two cents in here, but role doesn't always have anything to do with it. I personally am very anticlaim everywhere, be it vanilla or nonvanilla.Capricious wrote:
I would like you to answer why, in your position, you have denounced mass claiming, while cicero brought up the question himself. You two have the same roles.
Roffman, any reason why you think I'm scum besides vibes?
I'm also going tovote:Khelvasterbecause its getting close to deadline, and while I really don't like how Capricious is playing, I think Khelvaster is more likely to be scum because hes not very contributive on top of spouting not very protown strategies.-
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Everything everywhere boils down to WIFOM, including the existance of the universe. So can we stop with that now?
Haschel: I dont think the point is if the logic is consistent with itself but whether it makes any sense to begin with. One can argue a point consistently but base it on nonsense. Regardless I am rather concerned as to why Thesp is defending Capricious so much and Zoneace wants him dead that badly...
Roffman: do you have anything productive to add to the game? Because you really haven't added anything of value yet.
on the modkill: that would be kind of unfair, wouldn't it?-
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Roffman voted Khel? I totally missed that.
Roffman, do you have anything at all to add? Like a reason? Because you didn't state one. At all. At least WhoMe, whose vote also bothers me, was "well, he's not my main suspect, but I don't like him either and it'll be a lynch."
Now I usually don't harass nonplayers. Except when they ignore multiple attempts by other people at questioning them.-
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