Mini 1891: Fat Boy Mafia [Over]

[Aj The Epic]

Got a summary of the current state of the game?

i'll be reading up but it's 50 pages.

[Aj The Epic]

(scum up 10 pages at a time)

That'd be an impressive feat.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean, I'm still reading up... It's probably gonna take another two to three hours of reading to get through this game.

[Aj The Epic]

Does Nos town up after hard defending pine a lot early in D1? Because I'd be tempted to lynch her as she has a lot of interactions early that point to her as a buddy.

[Aj The Epic]

@Gin:

I was already there and no one seemed to care. Maybe you'll be heard.

What do you think of Pine talking in memes?

It's dumb and hopefully he'll stop. I don't see scum motivation. I seem to remember Pine playing along with the "moist" shenanigans that happened in our last game together so I'm pretty sure he just likes to fuck around in the early game. Probably just NAI.

aaah. okay.

Well. it doesn't really matter. it's mostly irrelevant to my reads.

Persivul brings up a rather good point.

Unvote

VOTE: Pine

pine wagon is shit; zero motivation either alignment for him to do what he's doing.

It's the "The PR is NAI" deal all over, but Nos was aggressively pushing it in the middle of chasing down Pie for... using Desp's list. (And actually, wasted an absolute ungodly amount of time to say:

UNVOTE:
Pers isn't that scummy. Just wrong.

speaking of which,

@pieg: one question for you, how exactly did you come up with the order for the players who hadn't spoken yet in your read list? I'd be willing to change my read based on your answer.

Oh I love appeasing scums! I read activity overview and randomly entered them. How in the world could you consider changing a read based on that?

VOTE: nos

yeah, figures. I was considering that you might've taken from the activity overview which would invalidate my case. Which you just did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like Nos' iso other than this major tunnel is really barren and it's such an obvious piece that blew up her case. More importantly, regardless of how pie got the order for that first reads list (the one where many hadn't posted so there's a big null zone) it DOESN'T MATTER. Like you either have an issue with the reads or the results, not the order of a bunch of null candidates. To waste so much time here is just blatant coasting while trying to look productive.

Votecount 1.6:

pieg (2)

- massive, Alz

Persivul (2)

- Firebringer, Nosferatu

Desperado (2)

- Pine, implosion

implosion (2)

- Desperado, -Grey-

Pine (1)

- Persivul

PranaDevil (1)

- PranaDevil

Nosferatu (1)

- pieg

-Grey- (1)

- TwoFace

massive (1)

- Whemestar

Not voting (0)

-

more of a melting pot than the austro-hungarian empire

lets just say we need a travel ban

But there's another issue with Nos' interactions with Pieg. Notice here Pieg is tied for the highest votes, no Nos vote on. Nos is voting Persivul, someone she decides to vote via "Sheep" and states a few posts later that Persi isn't scum. However, given this scenario and Nos' want to lynch Pieg, Nos has 0 reason to NOT VOTE PIE. At the very least, it makes Pie the leading wagon, and it aligns with Nos' major stated scum read.

game is stagnating bc the leading wagon is on town and the competing wagon is on scum

VOTE: wheme

I can't see scum literally asking to be part of a townbloc :/

so have i tho

which game was that?

VOTE: wheme

I wanted to point out that this too isn't really... good. Wheme's not the most town poster through this part, but an unannounced change of opinion isn't good as no one interacted with Nos between these two posts. Granted Wheme did post but Nos could say "this is an issue". Nothing.

I don't get the lack of Nos pressure.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah Nos, why did you unvote Alz for Momo when I'm his replacement?

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah Nos, why did you unvote Alz for Momo when I'm his replacement?

Don't be pendantic. The point was that Alz replaced out, not that momo replaced in, you get the idea.

It's not pedantic at all. In fact, you never really DID unvote, you just voted fire instead. And you didn't have a reason on Alz in the first place, nor did you state this was your reason for changing votes at the time. To me, your only interaction with Alz comes in post 821, where he calls you out for the shit time you spent against pieg. In honesty, Alz's case is perfectly fine and your reaction is the one that sucks here. And you start scumreading him for basically that, if I'm to go by your interactions.

Out of everything, pieg looks better in this interaction and Nos looks weird. I would like to repeat the question he asked-how would you consider changing your read based on his answer? What's your read now based on it?
This is weird, a weird question at the beginning, seems like an attempt to try to lay the groundwork to easily change his reads and manner of interaction towards him, followed by a casual response to pieg's answer to that question.

Yep, he's invalidated your case on him which appeared to be strong till now, with just one answer about the order he wrote his readslist in. Makes everything look very weird in hindsight

1. My read is now null on him. The reason I scum-read him is gone, which is why I unvoted. I already posted why I would change my read based on the answer.
2. If I didn't lay the groundwork and ask him the question for him to answer, I'd be sticking to a scum-read I know was possibly untrue. In other words I'd be perpetuating a false read. Kinda the thing I voted him for.
3. I've never observed that sort of thing, but interactions aren't my forte. Although while I'm on that note, I don't think you should be looking at the interactions of two people when you don't think either of them are scum. I've tried that before and it typically doesn't work.

See the reason you gave before voting pieg at the beginning, is that his reads list was faulty and that mainly implosion had a TR of him which he kept perpetuating as seen in 263, 273. You kept focusing on him till 507 at which point you started backing down weirdly.

You then asked pieg what was the order he posted his reads list in saying that his answer would change your read. He said, he got it from activity overview, which was apparently enough for you? I don't understand how those two things correlate at all. This is very weird and completely vague reason to back off.

You asked him a vague question which imo has no bearing on perpetuating a false read. So according to this, you wanted him to give that answer which would prove he was not scum. All of this is weird.

I felt you were town at the beginning, a lot of your posts were similar to my thought process but this, it's scummy. It now feels like you were bussing him and then just slowly slid off

As for the last part, I've seen it happen a few times. I now don't think so strongly that implosion is scum, he seems more towny as posts go by. Pieg, yeah the scum reads reinforced by this and his prior posts on a read.

mb, I should've just assumed I was right and did absolutely nothing when I realized I could've been wrong. I should've followed through on a lynch that had a possibility of being town. That's honestly the stupidest thing I've heard this whole day. I started backing down because I doubted myself. I'm allowed to second-guess my reads, and if anything, it's what makes me town. It's called thinking clearly.

See the bold? Notice that he called you for the same thing I did. You have different responses to different players IN THE SAME SLOT. THIS is your reason for scumreading Alz? Come on, at least try to pretend you're town here. Like I think this is probably the best post Alz made and you gave him some half-assed response for it and then vote him out the gate. Alz fucking got it, and you for whatever reason don't seem to be able to give a straight answer about WHY THE LIST ORDER WAS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT to any case you could possibly make. You actually never even touch on it when dealing with Alz although he brings it up twice.

Also can we talk about:

3. I've never observed that sort of thing, but interactions aren't my forte. Although while I'm on that note, I don't think you should be looking at the interactions of two people when you don't think either of them are scum. I've tried that before and it typically doesn't work.

Holy cognitive dissonance batman. "I'm not good at interactions, but lemme tell you how to interact". The level of "Fuck off" you're giving alz in these posts is fucking astounding, considering you go to scumreading him and in that case should be TRYING to interact with him. To me, this is pretty cut and dry you'd rather him just shut up and eat rope than actually give an explanation for the weird shit that went down with Pieg.

So let's go back to your original statement of unvoting Alz because of [me] replacing in. This, I don't believe either. Nexus announces Alz's replacement post Sun March 26th at 11am. I make a few filler posts. You make two posts that day. However, your UNVOTE comes almost exactly TWO DAYS LATER and without me having done jack shit in this game. The only happening is fire rants a bit of shit filler and wheme votes him. You switch, putting fire at 3 votes before Wheme unvotes again. Is scum reading fire an acceptable defense? Not if we're going by your iso, which is completely and utterly devoid of anything on fire.

VOTE: Nosferatu

You're feeding me a line of bullshit.

[Aj The Epic]

Gin, what do I need to pay you to get a nos vote?

[Aj The Epic]

Aj, do you have any solid reads other than on Nos?

Thus far:

Town: Gin, you, desp
lean town: fire, wheme
null: persi
null scum: Pieg, momo

To go more in detail, I'm actually not sure wtf is going on in Pieg's head. Saying my posts look like 'textbook good scumposting' is kinda... bad, since 'good scumposting' looks like townposting. So at bare minimum, she needs to identify a difference between what's town and scum. More importantly, it's very obviously chainsawing from that slot over Nos, who was through most of yesterday hell bent on lynching pieg. There's no reason that defense is warranted, even though the two of them became a voting block after for no real apparent reason.

Like holy fuck, Pieg SCUMREADS NOS by last glance and thinks Nos is trying to bus alz. All of the sudden, she's uptight defending nos and anyone who votes Nos? That being said, Pieg also has kept Nos closer to being lynched than she needed to, even if they're aiming alz first and could pull off lynching a second person once this slot flips town. And Pieg did have a scum read on Pine at one point. Ergo, it's hard to say exactly where Pieg falls for certain, on whether she's having a hard time saying what she means or if she actually is trying to push that noswagon is scumdriven.


I think really quickly discussing wheme might be important, since I have played a completed game with him. Fire modded that game so I'm supposing he's been watching in some way/shape/form too. wheme is a fluff poster, that got heavily scumread D1 due to it and had to role claim out of a lynch scenario (well, actually claimed early at like L-2 or 3). The main thing I noticed is that in bringer mafia, I had to engage wheme to get anything constructive. The same applies here, but no one has actively engaged wheme.

I do get why Fire scumread wheme though. It's why I can't hard townread wheme: Wheme actually had real substance. Yeah a lot of it wasn't great but there was an active attempt to make waves and solve the game. Yeah in that game, Frogger and I were basically leading the town on our merry old way and really were set on our lynches. Here's the issue with my limited exposure to wheme: was it because we prompted Wheme multiple times to give us something that he gave us something, and the nature of the game was less shit-posting that I saw substance? I think this is more likely, as Bringer mafia did have a lot of longer posts that were borderline walls. (Really, I'm still pissed town didn't win that over a fucking lynch I championed d1)...


Other than that, while I'm wary of Gin because there's a lot of talk over how fantastic he's been as town and scum, there still has to be flaws in scumgames and I'm not seeing any issues with his reads or progressions here. Desp's interactions early D1 seemed to be really town with his active engagement around Grey and such. I'd be tempted to SR Persi off of Two-face posts, but I honestly haven't put a lot of thought into Persi's posting to say one way or another.

[Aj The Epic]

and aj's posts are awful like he's 100% agendaposting

So again, you could actively be the first one to address me if you have a concern but as of so far I've seen no attempt. I, like many other people on this site, push scum reads. My 'agenda' is getting Nos lynched because she's scum. I don't think I've been very secretive about this motive. To me, your interactions around this have been very strange, as you've not had a townread on Nos EVER and yet you still choose to chainsaw for her now when you've never had an inclination to do so earlier.

So then my question to you is, what part of my case do you have an issue with? Do something productive with your dislike of my position on Nos rather than chainsawing through and proving nothing but your own inconsistency. Because the cute popshots that you take from the side are getting you nowhere.

[Aj The Epic]

We share different definitions of funny.

[Aj The Epic]

Besides shitposting, what's the issue with fire?

[Aj The Epic]

==[]

VOTE: Fire

[Aj The Epic]

Oh, actively keeping track while pretending not to give a fuck.

[Aj The Epic]

Just take year long breaks every six months and then no one knows how to read you for another six months.

[Aj The Epic]

Gin, why Wheme? Also, if Momo flips scum, who should we look into?

[Aj The Epic]

You were saying you wanted Wheme lynched, right? Why wheme over someone like Nos?

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, if momo is scum there's definitely an issue there. However, otherwise it's just Persi being daft for some reason.

[Aj The Epic]

Sorry, I'm sure momo - who's barely saying anything as it is - would have seen that, not bothered to check the VC, and spilled his guts in a manner that gave us a definitive read on him.

But why say anything to begin with? Nothing was needed to be said.

[Aj The Epic]

Nah m8 he'd kill on V/LA. No scum on V/LA is ever truly on V/LA.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Nos

I want this. A lot.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: nos

L-something

l-2

[Aj The Epic]

Ash you think im scum? :/

Awh *

If that's to me - yeah, sorry. I find pieg scummier, but you at least have one vote, so:

VOTE: Wheme

FTR I find pieg/wheme to more likely be an

or

than an

and

.

So this+ your continued pressure on Wheme, and then post 1542's claim you'd make a case on Pieg which never materializes makes me want to know what your reasoning for Pieg/Edo is.

[Aj The Epic]

yay

Hey nos, are we playing another game of "I've never scumread _____ but I'm going to pretend I am now"?

[Aj The Epic]

Edoist, can you go more in depth to your Nos read then? You suspect Persi/Gin for placements on Dark wagon but never give reason for Nos.

Also not entirely comfortable with Persi being unable to give a good read for his vote on Edo and then putting Nos L-1.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah but you think that and then vote for Nos, Persi.

[Aj The Epic]

Nos, a couple of pages ago, Gin summarized who townread and scumread implosion. Surely you didn't miss that he put you as scumreading implosion? You contested me when I called you for it, but when Gin just casually says you're scumreading Imp, you have no reaction.

And I know you were reading Gin's posts because you probably went and re-read his recent posts when he asked you 'what's the deal' on page 88, a post you quoted and asked for clarification about.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm claiming RB who, targeted Edo. No, I'm not going to put up with that, Gin. 0 Reason I'd kill edo over you or someone who isn't ML bait.

[Aj The Epic]

So Krispy Kreme donut, RB: Night targets Nos, Gin, Edo. The N2 was because I thought I was a JK.

Wheme should go next.

[Aj The Epic]

TBH desp being that concerned about flavor is weird. There's like thousands of unhealthy foods and there's a strong chance scum would have some fake claim foods.

Really nit-picky on his part.

[Aj The Epic]

Hey Gin read Ajs claim again and tell me why we shouldn't lynch him

Why don't you do the legwork and tell what's wrong? I'm 100% a RB, and my RB's have been on 2 scum reads of mine. Yeah I blocked Gin, I did so because I figured I thought I was a JK when I entered the game and Gin suspected he was going to die.

But assume I'm scum. Why do Persi and I decide Fire, then why do I decide Edo? My scum kill style is fairly well documented: It's ALWAYS take out the most town player.

[Aj The Epic]

Im asking why did he scum read him

It was Nos and Persi in the final wagon. I talked about Pieg's consistency issues around nos earlier in the game when I was making my case for Nos. I thought the two were acting strange. Yes, I thought Edo was scum and that opinion has been fairly public.

[Aj The Epic]

desp is RB'd going into tonight.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean... TBH your entire list is fucked over with "Scum no kills as a fuck you to Gin's list".

[Aj The Epic]

Because your play is "anyone but me" and not "town can win this way"

VOTE: Wheme

Fucking let's just go already.

[Aj The Epic]

Brilliant, help scum lynch PR's for free over Wheme who has done fuck all this entire game.

Isn't that the better play all together

P-edit, no it is not. You have zilch benefit to the town. PRs can solve the game with actions. You being alive does us nothing but keep someone scummy up.

[Aj The Epic]

Desp was blocked.

[Aj The Epic]

The only real option is to go to night once more.

[Aj The Epic]

Town lost. Y'all listened to gin too much there.

[Aj The Epic]

Funny you expect me to be 'engaging' when you're in fucking MYLO and you have no confirmed town. But gj again.

[Aj The Epic]

I feel so bamboozled.