Mini 507: Big Brother Mafia - Game Over

[Skruffs]

Hi guys.
Sorry flare, but unlike my predecessor, I intend to talk.
So apparently I am the least-liked player in the game? Hawt zheet.
Hopefully just me being the least liked player (I need to check the rest of the game to see how this happened) means that it's unlikely I'm just being bussed by any potential scumbuddies?

Shame on DOS for choosing the two least liked players as his nomination. We already know that they are unliked - how is nomming them going to generate discussion? This is the equivalent of a bandwagon vote.

I have nothing against flare, but odds are 6:5 that he is scum.

How many votes have been cast, and can they be changed?

[Skruffs]

Well, I figured that much at least (regarding one of us leaving).
That's cool. I was really interested in joining this game when it was in signups, but was too slow. I have replaced in, yay, but with a 50% chance of being kicked out. If I get voted out, I'll just try to replace back in, again.

[Skruffs]

StD... my archnemesis. Or old friend, I forget.

[Skruffs]

Crap. StD is scum.

[Skruffs]

Hi distad!
If it helps, I am a twin outside of the game, too. So I have a lot of experience with stupid siblings.

[Skruffs]

well, one of us doesn't necessarily have to leave - there could be one of those special powers in play. But I wouldn't want it used on me, anyways: if I leave, I get to nominate two people for the next eviction, right? So in a way, it's almost good to be lynched, if you know who you want to put up.

That is how it works, right?
That's why scum can't massclaim right now, even thought together they make 50% of the game: everyone that they'd powerlynch out by teaming up against would then eliminate one of the scum automatically, unless they were dumb.

[Skruffs]

Omg omg ryan, you just outed yourself.
Any reason you only wanted distad's reasoning?
Any particular reason, other than being scum, that you would think that 'floater' wasn't a townie?

Mneme - I disagree. Dos should have, if he wanted to stimulate conversation, picked people that other people had already started backing. Did you forget that the town is 50% mafia? Explain how nominating people that don't seem to have allies is going to lead to scum lynches? Also, I never claimed to be scummy and therefore town - I stated that my successor was least liked. Again, mafia will probably 'like' themselves over townies. This is why nominating lesser liked players is a cop out and unhelpful to town. If you don't understand this reasoning, that's fine, but I think you should re-evaluate what type of strategy will be successful for town in this game.

Dos, forgiven, forgotten, if you think you understand what you did wrong. How would you renominate players if you were given the chance?

[Skruffs]

Yes, I would have looked for 'clumpings' of opinions, personally, and targetted one person from each perceived clumping.

But yeah, unless I grossly misread, ryan claimed non-floater.

[Skruffs]

Actually... Skruffs did the rolefishing. I, however, TOTALLY agreed!

Still, I don't believe that you would accept a title and not know the implication, regardless of win condition.

This is false. "Floater" is an alignment, not a role.

Open Roles

You are in

the alpha dog trio with AAA BBB and CCC.

.
Win condition: The alpha dog trio is alive and outnumbers or equals all others still in the game.

You are in

the passive-aggressive trio with XXX YYY and ZZZ.

Win condition: The passive-aggressive trio is alive and outnumbers or equals all others still in the game.

You are a “floater”. You are not allowed to communicate with any of the other players outside the thread.

Win Condition: You win with the Town when all evil is gone.

Please confirm in thread

.

See? Ryan missed that, somehow.
There *are* no 'roles' to fish for. If there is anything in the game, there is 'special powers' as shown on the first page, and not even THEY are guaranteed to be in the game. So yeah. Who's accusing me of role fishing, again?



Mneme -
First Irrevocable vote cast, right?
K. I hope you feel you can win against Ryan, if I go out. Call that OMGUSsy if you like. ^.^

Interestingly enough, you were attacking my replacement back when it was trabony and Flare. You 'didn't buy' Flare's nomination - why not? I'm just curious because you seem to be anti-Trabony and ambivalent to flare since when both of them were equivalently lurking. Now with Distad's strange floater communication, you've kind of ignored it and instead focused on me, again. Is this 'scum hunting'?

Did you put a lot of thought into it before you put down the first vote? Did you ask town what the consensus was? Because it... to me, at least, seems like you were kind of rash. Especially what with me just pointing out that Ryan just claimed scum. SO yeah, that is REALLY not looking good on you, in my eyes.

I'd really like it if you could list out where you think Distad ahs been contributing and where I haven't. It's not hat I think that Distad hasn't been posting - I'm just curious where this bias you have came from.
(I'm sorry if you think that this post is 'obvious stuff' and 'bunk', but, I'm still in the game, and I intend to make the best of it.)

Those aren't my final nominations, but those are most likely my nominations. If Distad *is* scum with Ryan (I'm not saying he is), I doubt you could trust him to do that. Scum will obviously try to nominate townies, especially early in the game. Another strike for mneme, who is tryign to imply that scum will try and help town find other scum. That's not a sure thing, or even a maybe thing at all, unless one scum group is wounded and the other isn't.

[Skruffs]

Me bad, mneme, you do acknowledge RYan's scumminess on the first part of your post, but I was kinda caught up in the whole "let's not lynch distad" part of your post.

I am Very curious about why you refute my point about 'least liked players' being town - because, as you say, scum are (I guess) going to attack each other on the starting gate and (apparently) try to get each other nominated day one, but, you do the opposite of that and say that scum will try to collaborate to try to get one of their own as HoH? Which side of the coin do you really buy into?

[Skruffs]

And, again, looking through my posts, I see nothing where mneme can say that distad is scumhunting (yet), unless he means the part about RYan claiming non-floater. But... Distad isn't the one who pointed that out, so, I don't buy it.

Mneme, please explain yourself more.

[Skruffs]

I don't expect I'll be able to convince you I'm town, I guess the real question everyone needs to decide - and the unfortunate part is that if we really are both townies, then the majority of voters are scum - is who is going to be better at hunting scum?

I personally feel I will be more of an asset. In every game I am in as town, I go "out there" to find and root out the badguys. In Exile mafia, which is a game fairly similar to this, I had a good portion of the town's strategy down to win the first day - and I wound up getting lynched for it, too, but I had pegged two of the four scum day one. I'm in a similar situation here, and with so many scum, I can understand why they might try to get me lynched instead of distad, who is playing it smart and laying low.

I don't lay low, though. Take that as you will.

[Skruffs]

Hmm.
I don't buy your theory that scum will try and hunt down other scum, especially this early in the game. It is my impression they will try and wittle down townies so that town will 'need' them more.

However, if they are trying to find scum, then you are proving my point, which is that nominees should not necessarily come from players that people don't seem to like.

[Skruffs]

Mneme,if I nominated you as hoh, who would you put up?

[Skruffs]

So scum are likely to be both more popular and less popular, which is why you think it's likely dos is scum AND I am scum? Coo.

[Skruffs]

Also, mneme, confused about why you seem to ridicule me about picking up on ryan's 'scumtell' adter only 3 posts when distad, who responded directly to the post, seemed to miss the context of it entirely. You then jump all over me even to the point of telling me that *my* focus sould be on deciding who te next hoh should be.

Fos fos fos fos

[Skruffs]

I'm trying not to get paranoid, but enmeme's actions/easy defense of distad/attacks on me are beginning to conjure up stronger and stronger impressions that mneme has a reason to want me out over distad. He's usurped himself from being part of the debate by casting his vote preemptively (imo) as well.

I have no clue what everyone else thinks, I'd like to hear thoughts. Right now, barring everything else, I'd like to see distad voted out over myself. It is easy for me to see him as competition, and that makes it easy for me to try and find things to cast a bad light on him, so I would rather other people weigh in, because it could just be paranoia.

I'm also, at this moment (subject to change) wanting to hear who other people would nominate if they were placed as hoh. Std, ryan, dos, and distad especially. Those are the people highest up on my 'to persecute' list.

[Skruffs]

Meh, I have until 24 hours before the deadline before I can not change my HoH choice. IF people don't vote by deadline it defaults to who they have higher up on their lists? I have this sinking suspicion I'm going to be lynched through apathy.

For me, right now, it is looking like I will either, if I am feeling selfish, choose ckillor who is trying to say he'll do my bidding, or i will choose someone who will target people who might be trying to lurk their way to deadline. I Want to see opinions out there, you sumbetches!!!

[Skruffs]

yuppo

[Skruffs]

Ryan, any questions for me?
Thought not.

If you guys really want to look at play rather than ask distad why he's better than me, maybe you should actually, I dunno, look at who's been talking and asking questions and poking around since they replaced in. Again, Distad is laying low, commenting on relevant issues but not getting in anyone's way, because he doesn't want to get voted out. Unfortunately, when you are nominated, you have to go and put every last thing you want to say out there, because if you don't, and you get nominated, you've lost your chance to.

I can understand why Ryan would be upset at me since I called him out on his mistake whereas Distad was just intending to casually discuss the nature of lurkers.
Mneme, similarly, put out the first vote and I still can't exactly understand why except thruogh vague terms. If Ryan and mneme ARE scum, they are both trying to push votes towards me, and away from Distad. Does that mean distad is scum? No, not necessarily, but I think that it should be obvious that if people think ryan is scum they should be doing the opposite of what he is suggesting.


Anyways, I will not be around much after THursday, I'm working security at a convention. I can access mscum from my cell phone and will attempt to do my best to be vocal and active, as I have been. This is basically my "Final plead", though, and I really, REALLY want to suggest to you all that I will be valuable to town later on in the game. I've made a few mistakes regarding understanding how the game works, but now that they are cleared up, and they were honest mistakes....


Anyways.

things to consider:
I don't like StD publicly 'trolling' for an alliance, even if it is joking. When I later asked if he was friend or foe, he said neither, and that was kind of odd, too, because he is usually (and has been through most of the game) very jocular. I didn't really push it because of what happened with Ryan and distad and mneme. And it's a personal thing, too, so I wouldn't expect anyone to understand where I am coming from, either. But I'm dumping it out, now.

Ryan didn't know what the term floater was.
"The "no worries if I'm voted out I'll be back statements" are starting to really confuse me. Who says our mod would allow either of you two to replace back in if it was deemed necessary? What exactly do you mean by a "floater?" "
He was asking why people kept using the term 'floater'. This was not "What is a floater', he is asking why that term was being used and in what context - as in, what is a floater in mafia-terms, such as, "What do you mean, "OMGUS"?", etc.


Mneme - Placed a vote on me without really discussing it first. Immediately after Ryan asks what a floater is, he jumps on me, tryign to direct attention to me. He's been contradictory in saying that the least liked players are most likely mafia, saying that the town probably doesn't know who the mafia is, and saying that the first HoH is probably scum. Goes all over the place and is just SCUM.

Distad - see above. Again, playign cool, is claiming to be scum hunting but hasn't said much original scum hunting posts.
His claim that he made up 25% of the posts on page ten to demonstrate he was scumhunting, but here is a breakdown of those posts.
Fours posts consisting of: One part bemoaning me and him both replacing in as nominees, one part obvious post (something mneme accused me of but not him),
one part claim to be floater/response to Ryan's first set of questions directed to solely him, and one part discussion of the term floater (not scum huntign at all, just casual conversation).

DOS - The first HoH rarely makes it very far. In this case, it was a popularity contest.
Possible reason why he may have been nominated: scum thought he would be an easy target to put in the spot light . Scum want to stay in the middle of the piopularity polls, THAT's what I said in my first analysis of the game and my first critique of him.

His nominees were 'safe', which is unfortuante, because town has to take risks to hunt scum in this game, especially when the mechanics are focussed so much on One player making decisions. His choosing the 'least likely' nominees might have made sense at the time but, much like distad's play, it is self-serving in the end. Unfortunately to win this game townies need to not be self-serving.

CKillor - he has directly offered to do my bidding if I make him HoH, which, to be honest, is tempting. What are everyone's thoughts on that? Is that likely a town or a scum move?

Those are the top six players on my radar right now, but I wouldn't take anything I say as verification of their alignment or anything. I of course run the risk of all six of those players (distad and dos) putting their votes on me with almost no chance of retribution, and I think it should be analyzed how they react to this.


Distad should follow up with a similar post with just enough scum hunting for biased players like Mneme to say that he's doing the scum hunting and that I am speaking rubbish. I really feel that if I get lynched today over Distad, that distad is scum and that hte other scum team is probably helping his scum team take advantage of his vulnerable position in order to keep attention on the 'other group'.

If there is other scum hunting giong on, it needs to be more vocal, because I think I am missing it. Hell, you might all decide to vote me out just to shut me up, but I feel that would be a waste.

K?

[Skruffs]

Yea... but this isn't 100% like the gameshow. And there are three known "alliances" of 6, 3 and 3.

BZZZZT!

[

Wrong! Floater is an alignment, NOT an alliance grouping!
If the floaters were aligned, we would know who each other is. We don't.
Apparently you don't realize this? Cuz ur skum?

dingdingding

[Skruffs]

It's not the same, RYan, when I have to ask for it.

1) Then Distad? I don't know. I know I have a lot of experience with big brother games, which this is a mutation of, and kingmaker games, which this is a mutation of, and contagion - a scumchat game, which this is a mutation of. I feel I probably have a strong feeling of how things should go.

2) Both, obviously.

3) Scum want to keep malleable players around. I'm ornery as a bit goat.

Now your turn.
1) Why do you believe you shouldn't be nominated next week, and who should be nommed in your stead?

2) Who would you nominate if you were HoH?

3) Who do you think scum would rather keep around between me and distad?


The reason I want people to say, Now, who they would nominate is because if they change their mind later I want it to be public knowledge that they changed their minds.

[Skruffs]

Confewsed
Are you saying that dos is scum? He nominated floater, at least.

[Skruffs]

Ksc0pe, faerielord, you really disappoint me.
Not because you voted me, but because of the utterly craptastic reasoning behind it.
Please tell me what scumhunting distad has done that isn't following behind someone else?

Also, please tell me why you decided to disregard everything I've done and focused on the player I've replaced?

Fl, you said IN YOUR POST that I'm doing a good job, but still usetrabony, who isn't even in the game anymore, as the reason you are voting me.

Tell me, obviously you think distad will be more useful to town that I will. Why?

Ksc0pe, same question? What apect of trabony's play seemed unfavorable to you before nominations? And what basis did you use to determine that play?

Real, total copouts, fl even more so than ksc0pe. If I stick around you can expect some heavy, heavy scrutiny tomorrow from me. Neither of your predecessors were exactly all that hot at instigsating conversation, either.

Btw, I didn't name distad as the successor of me for hoh. Ihaven't revealed my successor, yet, if I get kicked out. Hope you weren't counting on that.

[Skruffs]

Again you both at least quasiacnowledge my play is not bad or scummy or you would have included it in your reasoning for voting me. Fl even said it wad good but votes me anywyas. So what reason do you have for ignoring me and making a vague reference of trabony with your first post into the game? Not fair to me at all.

[Skruffs]

Gah! This game got dropped from my watch list over the weekend, haven't even checked into it. All I know is Distad got evicted, and I am still around. Thanks, I intend to prove myself, if I can.

[Skruffs]

Okay.

I would nominate Ryan. Not just because he claimed to not be a townie (which he adamantly denies) but also because the instigation that because Distad was a townie, I am scum, and that everyone who voted Distad should be looked at.

However, with it going 4-5, that means every single player that could vote, had to, which is interesting. Even if you want to say I am scum, and DoS is scum, that's still a minimum of 4 scum voting between me and Distad. So looking at the reasons people used behind their votes is worth considering.

Personally, I think that the people who voted distad had thebetter reasoning, but since I was the other choice, I can understand why others would be skeptical. He was a townie, but he was also blaise and not much threat to the two scum alliances which are (right now) in the majority. I on the other hand came out swinging, and I got some PRETTY CRAPPY votes because of it.

If I was to nominate, I would definitely nominate Ryan and probably nominate Faerie Lord. He *said* that I was doing a good job adn then tried to evict me for it because "Trabony's play sucked". I personally think that ignoring a player who is active to focus on their predecessor who was replaced in the first place becasue they were lurking, that is scummy and avoidant. I think FL was hoping a noisy town (or at least not his team, in his eyes) voice would be eliminated.

KSc0pe not only avoided posting reasoning but then defended that with the old "it's day 1" excuse. I'm sorry, but ignoring the information you DO have to defend a reason based on OLD information and then saying you don't have the NEW information is scummy, in my eyes, too. Plus, he attacked me for being upset that I got two votes for NO DEFENDABLE REASON AT ALL, in fact, the votes were based on things I had absolutely NO control over, so it was OBVIOUS that KSc0pe (and Faerie Lord) didn't WANT there to be discussion about it.


Mneme - from what I see, you haven't really looked at the reasons people used behind their votes in deciding your nominations. What do you think about everyone? Why are you choosing to nominate DOS



Ryan - you didn't post a single thing with your vote on me. Why not? And why are you badgering Chaos - who had to choose between a tie - and not the person who put Distad at equal footing with me in possibility of being lynched? Isn't it more likely that someone was trying to protect me by making it easier for Distad to be lynched than it is that Chaos waited until there was some sort of known tie before deciding to hammer 'the townie'? And why are you so sure I am scum? The reason I am asking these questions is because you are choosing who to attack in, what I see as, a biased manner.
Also - the whole "People who hammer a townie should be looked on the next day" doesn't mean anything if two townies are the only choices. That was the case. Every one had to vote between TWO options, me or distad. One of us HAD to be lynched. After DOS made his decision to nominate those players, one of them had to go. If there are other game mechanics in here, they were not used. You can say that is how you have seen plenty of games played, but that is ignoring the mechanics of THIS game. I just really don't like you attacking Chaos for basically being the last person to VOTE and not anyone else.
Also, and this is very strange... do you think Mneme is town? If so, why would you want him to be nominated? The idea of nominating someone to 'prove they are town' only really works if the person is lynched and shown to be town. I know that can't be what you are suggesting.

I like Pug89's Post 374. Reason. Pug seems kind of townish to me.

Pickem:
I like how you are playing this game, but the post you made just above mine... confuses me. (BTW I dropped out of Jathan's BB game. I didn't like it.) Why would you attack CHaos for changing his opinion of a player after they have been replaced? That is like saying that you can't change your mind abuot someone after you've FOSsed them. Or something along those lines.

Epilogue:
Personally, if Chaos was scum and had to choose between one of his scum buddies and someone not on his team, week one.... then evicting his scum buddy would put a HUGE "Townie" beacon over his head that could not be touched for Weeks.

Congrats on your win vel rahn koon. I hope you nominate smartly. More than listening to me, I hope you develop your own opinions about why you are nominating who you are nominating, because you can't actually vote (unless there is a tie)

[Skruffs]

I guess rather than just saying "Nominate this person!" I am going to instead analyze and posit the reasons why I think people should be nommed.

Ryan, you are seriously floundering.

[Skruffs]

KaleiÐoscøpe - I may not have had a vote last round but that doesn't make my opinion useless NOR did it prevent me from playing the game.

FaerieLord - Do you feel that I, Skruffs, was playing dumb and confused, wassitting on the fence, or was was using crappy reasons? If not, than your vote was based entirely on trabony and not me. Which means you were avoiding my nomination - or me - entirely.

Ryan:
"I don't "know" you are scum, but I have a good feeling that you are trying to steer the town in your direction and to follow you and normally I would see that as a decent town play, in this instance I don't trust you. "
- THis statement tells me you have no inclination to change your mind about me, regardless of my actions and/or what I do.

"I also don't like the fact that you don't want to look at Chaos for being possible scum for eliminating a townie but I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about it because it's obvious you don't find anything scummy about it (which is your opinion and most certainly not mine) With that...."
I am the only person in the game who KNOWS that ChaosOmega had two townies to choose from. It doesn't make him automatically scum for choosing one townie over another. If he had voted for you, would you be accusing Vel of the exact same thing?

Also, you are accusing me of WIFOM, but you are trying to get ChaosOmega nominated for the exact same "WIFOM". "How do we "know" you are town? " WHy are you so "Sure" that I am not, that you would think CD was voting distad to save me?

[Skruffs]

Ryan, pickem, Faerie, ksc0pe:
Okay - the four of you have stated prettty strongly that the person I replaced was scummy in some how, but the only quote I have seen is from Faerie. The reasons were that he did not understand the rules of the game, that he was a fence sitter, and that he had crappy reasons for nominating Ryan.

Well, my reasons for nominating Ryan are not that crappy. I have misunderstood aspects of the game (I thought evicted players acted as HoHs on leaving. I was wrong.. that and some other things). Fence sitting, I don't see that as a scum tell, especially on a day one before any real information is revealed.

You guys can continue to hold this against me, for the rest of the game if you want... or you can do as pickem is saying and let it go but keep it in mind... or you can really look if someone should really be accountable for that on a day one. If you want to continue to scrutinize people like that, maybe you should scrutinize other players in the game, too, then, to avoid being hypocritical.

Ryan - Saying that you are going to claim townie does not make mine and your situations similar. It doesn't. Sorry.

[Skruffs]

Vel, I'd like you to post your opinions as well.
Nominate: ryan, mneme.

Ryan's false dilemma that chaos voted out a townie (while ignoring everyone else on distad's vote count) is a baseless reason to nominate co. He thought trabony was scummy, but not me. Saying that's scummy is just validating the votes I had on me that were based entirely on trabony's play (and more likely from scum imo)

[Skruffs]

Actually I'm not 100 percent sure of mneme, I just realized my opinion didn't count unless I actually did noms so that was a temp thing

[Skruffs]

Pickem -
If it's hypocritical, than it is scummy, right?
Why would you like to see chaos evicted thsi round instead of, say, Ryan?
And why are you giving mneme a pass?

I am not defending CHaos, but here is his reason:

So I gotta break the tie. Alright.

vote: distad

I said before that I was leaning towards distad because Skruffs seems to be posting more in regards to finding scum, while distad's posts are more filler. I posted something for you to answer, and you didn't answer it because of its tone, which I didn't think was particularly condescending.

To me, I think that his reasoning is adequate. IT's not basing his vote on something Trabony did or didn't do, it is "up to date" with the game (unlike ksc0pe and Faerie Lord), and it HAS a reason (Unlike Mneme and Ryan) behind it.

People keep saying distad was doing more scumhunting than me, and then when asked to explain how, they change it to, "Well trabony was just scummier" - but not explaining that, either.



People who are angry that ChaosOmega cast the deciding vote should have waited longer to cast their vote, because if he had been a little earlier or someone else would have been a little later, they would have been mad at someone else.

There were scum from one team or another voting on BOTH parties. Ryan focussing on one player like he is is just trying to detract attention from himself.


Lastly, I am wondering why everyone is being critical of CO for hammering.
Someone had to. It feels like he's getting all this attention to scare townies into quick voting this round, instead of biding their time. If you disbelieve me, look at the order of people's votes, and then look at who's critical of ChaosOmega.


Current HOH - Your opinions on players would be much appreciated. IT's more town for you to contribute than to be 'unresponsible' for hte nominations by saying it's everyone else's opinion. Also, consider this: if you are town, the opinions of 60% of the players you are basing your nominations on are scum's. Please contribute.

On the plus side, this round's nominations should have a lot more debate behind them then round one, and we won't have another round of people being nominated blindly. THat didn't work well for DOS, but hopefully we have a better feel for the game.

I would like to request that Pug *not* be nominated, I have liked most of his posts this game, so far.
I started to like PIckem, but I'm beginning to falter now, but I also realize he's generally a brash player and may just be stirring things up (which is good)

[Skruffs]

This makes meh happeh.

[Skruffs]

I will most likely be voting for Ryan. He's said enough already to make me at least fairly sure he is scum.

[Skruffs]

What would you like clarified KaleiDoscope?

Skruffs: I find it interesting how me going after you on Day 1 was deemed by you as "not giving me a chance to show you I'm town" (paraphrasing your words) yet you seem to be doing the same thing on me.

You've shown me plenty, though, Ryan, to suggest to me you AREN'T town.

Don't worry, when I vote, for whoever it is, it will be after I state my reasonings in a post at least a fwe hours before stating why IW ill be voting who I am voting.
IT won't be a blank post with just a vote in it that I can fill in later.
And I'm not going to vote someone without asking them the questions first, mneme.

[Skruffs]

Well it's been pointed out that ryan and mneme have done a lot of talking today. Frankly I'm not sure what else they can say. It may be a good idea for all of us, in the interim, to discuss potential nominees for tomorrow.

Vel, did you discuss your own suspicions in any posts between the time you were nominated head of house hold and when you nominated ryan adn mneme? I know you said your suspicions in the post in which they were nominated, but you seemed to avoid it before hand, sayign you wanted to hear other people first.
I think if you want to discuss tomorrow, you should probably go first, since you are, technically, at least one 'cycle' behind everyone else.

[Skruffs]

Vel-Rahn - You posted a very conservative argument there, bascially (mostly) stating why you are choosing nto to reveal your opinions of other players. When more than half the players in the game are scum, every townie needs to be proactive.

Question :
About Ryan (not to ryan but everyone else)
Is it reasonable to thinkt hat Ryan did not claim 'non-floater' week one? Does anyone disagree with that?

[Skruffs]

Okay.
I am getting the same vibes from mneme as I was from maz medias in Exile mafia, whereas ryan is giving my ABS or BM vibes. Both of them are a pain in my ass, no offense intended.

Mneme is kind of acting like he knows ryan is going to be evicted; it takes 5 to lynch.
I was originally going to hold my vote until later, but it seems that this IS later.

vote :mneme

Though I am voting mneme, I wholly support either's eviction. My vote is mostly kharma.

[Skruffs]

Interesting to note how lopsided the voting was this time, as compared to the first week.

Ryan, do you know who you will nominate as hoh?

[Skruffs]

Ahhhhh hahhahahahahaha.
Well, on the plus side, town scored a victory. On the other, I think ryan just wifomed the whole town. I got a message saying I was the next hoh, and thought
'Wow, why did ryan nominate me? Was it because I was the only person to vote mneme? Or was he scum....'

Oh well. It is time to go back to see if anyone was dumb enough to defend ryan's slip up.

As it stands, I am likely to nominate val and mneme, but I will in the end choose based on general analysii. You can do the nominations thing if you want, but I'm going to be a bit more personally involved than the other hohs were, because town is not yet in a majority.

[Skruffs]

Do we want to get into the wifom of ryan's choice for nomination? If I was scum, and I got evicted, I would probably try to nominate some one not on my team who was reasonably scummy. Try to flush out potential coups, vetoes n such.

I did mean vel, not val. No offense meant.

Mneme, how do you feel about the majority that ryan was evicted by?

Chaosomega, that's two out of two weeks that you were the last to vote. Intentional?

[Skruffs]

Pickem- you dropped mneme from your list of suspicious players. Why? You voted for him.

I have pt no pot problem nominating from the following pool-
Faerie, pickem, vel, mneme, and chaos

Reasons:
Faerie- playing low, horrible following vote day 1 (him more than others)

Mneme- it was on on given that ryan would go day 2 but mneme was extremely confident, confidence that later turned out to be well founded, but how did they know?
Also, suspicion of me (voted them) and co (post lynch vote) but ignores pickem (second vote on him)
Also pushing the whole 'scum are here to help town' line day 1.

Pickem- drops mneme to go after others, which coincides with mneme ignoring him. The whole 'wow geez ryan was scum boy am i surprised' reaction also seems force.


Chaos- last to vote twice, could be on on nulltell, though. Ryan's theory that me and co are scum together is diluted by ryan's showing up as scum

Vel- not happy with his contribution yesterday- he says he didn't want to seem to be trying to influence the game, but he was actually trying to avoid responsibility for his nominations.


Ksc0pe has slipped off my radar for now, pug wasn't on it, and dos and ckillor are also off my radar right now.

[Skruffs]

I think mneme going after ryan for a "slip" was a bit too aggressive. Anyone could have overlooked the stuff on the front page. I didn't remember it until it was pointed out, and I think using that as the springboard for the attack was a bit shady, no matter that it worked out for us by nailing a scum.

Hmm.
The thing is, the thing about 'floaters' would have been in Ryan's ROLE PM.
Only scum would have to go to the front page to check on it. Apparently you forgot that you are supposed to be pretending to be a floater.

Oooooooooooooooh. Busted.

[Skruffs]

vel - if you wer to be nominated, who would you want to go up against?

[Skruffs]

Yea... but this isn't 100% like the gameshow. And there are three known "alliances" of 6, 3 and 3.

BZZZZT!

[

Wrong! Floater is an alignment, NOT an alliance grouping!
If the floaters were aligned, we would know who each other is. We don't.
Apparently you don't realize this? Cuz ur skum?

dingdingding

BZZZT!

FLOATERS NEVER NOMINATE OTHER FLOATERS. HENCE IT'S LIKE AN ALLIANCE.

dingdingding

LIKE I SAID THIS ISN'T 100% LIKE THE ACTUAL SHOW.

Sorry, had to rehash this

Also, unlike me and distad, who you asked both of us to convince you are town, you kind of formed your own conclusion about ryan and mneme and voted mneme - you didn't ask mneme to convince you she is town. Or ryan, for that matter, even though that's how you said you were intending to play.

[Skruffs]

Peg, vel, mneme, and faerie lord:
It is most likely I will be nominating two of the four of you.

Please state why you feel you should not be nominated over the other three options, and, if you were to be nominated, who you would would most want to nominated against.

Answering is better than not answering, but the most thoughtful answers will carry the most weight.

Chaos- vote this time. I want to see you up near the front before everyone else has made their decision. Agreed?

[Skruffs]

Fl -
I know you're pushing the "I'm playing low" angle, but are you not interested in responding to my request?

[Skruffs]

My nominations will be at the end of this post. First, some self-indulgence.

My opinion of Mneme may be biased due to the interactions me and him had day one. I remember that just after I pointed out the scum tell by Ryan, Mneme kind of ignored it and went on to attack someone else. A lot of my suspicion on him day one was based on him seeming to be pro-distad and anti-skruffs, even though the reasonings behind the claimed feelings were not logical based. Even distad suggested you were buddying.


Pickem is pickem, he plays in a way very similar to some other people who's play styles I just don't agree with. HE voted right after I did and before anyone voetd Ryan - so he may have been hoping that otheres would band wagon along and Ryan would be spared. His reaction afterwards "Oh crap, ryan WAS scum" is a very very lame attempt to cover up from what may be a botched attempt to save a scum buddy. That mixed with his seeming misunderstanding of the 'floater alliance' (which isn't true in either this game OR the real game)


I really don't like Vel or Mneme's suggestions that mafia will help hunt mafia, especially early in the game. I believe that mafia will have no trouble voting out the other mafia, but mostly they want to get rid of players that will be a pain in their sides later on in the game.

Faerie Lord replaced StD , who I said was scum in the first couple posts in the game. He hid behind someone else in voting me, claimed to be just laying low, and is basically just lazing around. He never said why either of the other three people should go up,

Vel, I understand your reasoning for what you did yesterday, but I Think that you took the easy route out. I think after DOS's nominations and how failed they were, you probably would have wanted to be more proactive. IF you were town, then it was 6 scum and 4 town's opinions that you were dealing with - and since you already thought that you said that you thought mafia would scum hunt the other mafia, you were basically not being responsible for your vote. If a townie had been evicted, you would not have been able to be held accountable for it, which is defensive playing. If you think someone was scum,. you really SHOULD have nominated them with reasoning, instead of hoping and assuming that the town and other scum team would have thought of it for you. You didn't. IF scum was evicted (and it was) , there is no reason to think that you weren't busing, because you played your role in true neutral fashion. That's why I am nominating you.

Also, ChaosOmega kept me around when I had said in a previous post that if I was evicted that X was scum with Distad. Even more so if he was my buddy and Distad wasn't. Mneme, ksc0pe, F. Lord, and

Ryan

all attempted to exploit that, in my eyes, even if they didn't mention it.

Pug, I'm disappointed that you did not contribute more this week.




I'm going to

Nominate : Vel-Rahn Koon and Faerie Lord

I wish I could nominate all four, though. My methods are not inscrutable but I do stand behind them, I'm pretty sure that at least 3 of the 4 people that IW as choosing between are scum, at this juncture.

[Skruffs]

Pug, you've been awfully quiet this week. And you didn't respond to one of my questions earlier!

Vel, your status this week is basically the same as last week, only with a new label. Last week you didn't want to contribute or scum hunt AS the HoH because you thought it would be interpreted as trying to influence the way town voted. Well - as the person who chooses which two people are eligible for being voted out, you really SHOULD be more proactive. instead you put it on everyone else in the game to decide for you, only commenting on who you thought you were scummy in either the post you nominated or the post immediately before (I forget)
Now you are claiming that you really messes up, and that you are going to be voted out, and being all fatalistic. But in so doing, you're basically AVOIDING scum hunting again, or whatnot, which is the exact same tactic you had yesterday. Why?

Also, you tried to deflect attention to DoS by saying that if you were supposed to be accoutnable for the nominatinos than DoS should be as well. The thing is, DoS had no previous experience to go off of - he based his nominations on popular appeal. It didn't work. You saw that it didn't work but did the same thing anyways - presumable thinking that you could do just what you did and try to deflect blame on to DoS. I don't like that. IT's too "Hidey".


Faerie Lord - If what you did was a null tell than why are you bitching me for doing something similar? For the record, I did not nominate you for StD's play - I had not even quite realized you were StD's replacement until after the post in which I put four people up 'for grabs'. That's beside the point. I asked you specifically to explain which of the people you thought should be nominated, why you shouldn't, etc, and you avoided the question by focussing on Mneme instead, talking about her nominatiosn - something I had said earlier in the week that I really wouldn't be considering. (I did to a small degree, but did not put it 'up to everyone else' to decide for me, not when 5 out of hte 9 other players are scum).

No, I did not like why you said I did a great job and then proceeded to vote me. You later explained that Distad was simply better, but that's not what you said when you case the vote, and you never explained why you thought that.

When I asked StD was scum, he gave a very noncommital answer, very vague. This was right after he was trolling for someone to join an alliance with him. I realize StD has been kind of absent from the site lately but that's not the StD that I remember from PS2Sux and the newbie game the two of us were in. I also didn't like your OBVIOUSly tailcoat-following vote behidn KSc0pe week one.

I didn'tnominate Mneme this week mostly for two reasons: A) answered my request efficently and to my satisfaction (unlike the other three) and B) Focusing on one player until they are eliminated is not helpful to town. Neither of these mean mneme is town. Trustm e, I don't like Mneme's play, especially not week one, but, the other three were much more suspicious adn it would be hypocritcial to ask something of someone and then punish them for obliging me with it.

PIckem, fl, and vel all avoided answering my request. Vel came the closest but even he said that I ended to provide concrete evidence before he would respect my request - something that he has also said he doesn't intend to provide (through scum hunting, giving opinions, etC). FL's reasons are above, and there is Pickem too. Pickem I don't know what to make of. I think his 'floater alliance' thing came immediately after Ryan was being crucified for the same thing. It may have been an intentional measure to make people think "Scum wouldn't do that TWICE, would they?". Then voting for mneme, right after I did, he may have thought that mneme was less likely town or he may have been thinking he could wagong mneme and save ryan. Also seems kind of farfetched. In either case, another week of his shenangicans will probably help decide my opinion of him one way or another.

[Skruffs]

Pug - I asked you previously if there was anyone you thought I shouldn't nominate. ANd you have been lurkign and demurring me ever since. THat's sad.

[Skruffs]

Well, votes are irrevocable, now. The time for any special powers (if there are any) has ended.

I am not sure I would base my vote on the cases, especially if you haven't actually contributed to either case.

[Skruffs]

How strange.
I must have not copied it over - I wanted your input on who to nominate or not nominate this week, but you kind of demurred. I guess I shouldn't have had to specifically ask you for your opinion, you should have given it anyways.

[Skruffs]

35 hours left!

[Skruffs]

You did, I know. I mean, you waited until almost deadline, but you did post.

I'm not bitching, just confused about something.

[Skruffs]

Congratulations on your win, pickem.
I'm kind of peeved that I was wrong about VRK.

[Skruffs]

Hmm.

I'm curious why almost five posts, almost in a row, threw out DOS suspicion?
The reason I nominated VLK was (mostly) due to him letting everyone else choose the nominatinos without putting input of his own in. I think DOS did that. Of course the reasoning behind most of the votes ignoerd that and turned to the slip up he made, which had been previously uysed effectively against Ryan.

a one day extension might be nice, mod

[Skruffs]

I am thinking maybe elmo.
There is no scumhunting going on, just bandwagoning.

[Skruffs]

Well, aside from your attempt to deflect attention to the other players, at what point would you say it was bandwagoning. Three players? Four? Five?

[Skruffs]

The reasons for your nominations are that both of them are too loud. Pointing the finger and stirring the pot are actually pro-town situations. Otherwise the scum quietly orchestrate one lynch after another.

While I have personally said that both dos and mneme are likely scum, the reasons behind your nominations are scummy, too.

[Skruffs]

Wow.
Pickem, you're not upset by the nominations - why?

You haven't given any indication, I think, of who you wanted to nominate at all the entire week.

Could it be said that this was a very passive-agressive way to avoid being responsible for who you nominated?

If you are trying to fly low under the radar, you are *Really* missing the point.

[Skruffs]

I would probably nominate Pickem for either not caring enough about the game to do anything about it, or intentionally not doing anything with that as an excuse.


farside, I didn't nominate VLK because of his coments. I've said that. I nominated him because I felt he was trying to avoid being responsible for his nominations; I felt that his letting the rest of the town decide who he would nominate without adding any input of his own until the last day, I felt that was VERY much a scum tell. That's exactly why I did the opposite when I was the HOH. Even when people were voting, I said that that wasn't why I nominated him, but NOBODY talked about the other thing and talked about the comment instead. Also, both he and Faerie Lord were the LEAST compliant with my request as HOH, which was to answer a series of question. The other players at least made a half-hearted attempt. I think that scum would be less likely to fight for their survival because they would feel they have their teammates behind them against a townie; I apparently was wrong.


So yes at this point I would probably nominate Pickem just for his apathy towards the game. Who would I put up against him? I don't know, probably fairie lord. (he's gone quiet again)

[Skruffs]

Pug, do you feel that we are both townies?

[Skruffs]

Wow, a lot of people think that pickem nommed two floaters.

It sucks nobody can do anything about it.

Esp cuz it'll be 3-3-2 if another floater goes home.

[Skruffs]

Yeah, fl apparently feels safe being nommed against pickem or else he is reverse psychologing you there farside.

Pug, you need to give a name, now, or you are going down. Who did you trust most right before ryan was evicted?

[Skruffs]

Boy, it's really bad taste to criticize the current hoh, but FOS: pug and fl.

I'm sure you don't know what would have happened with a tie but the assumption that neither would be evicted was embraced. The idea that, perhaps, BOTH would have been evicted was not mentioned, but I can't see how you could think of one and not the other.

Pug, who was your second most trusted?

Also, the house is smaller, now, but there are still signs of affection. Things are coming around full circle, you might say.

[Skruffs]

I would say that two of fl, pickem, and ksc0.

Pug, when did you determine farside was town? You didn't actually say you thought he was town until after...in fact when everyone said it was likely we were both town you said you were going to review us and then waited until after a certain deadline had passed before agreeing we were town.

Pickem had two townies on his most suspicious list, which presumably went all the way back to the first week. Irresponsible at best, scummy at worrst. Saying that he didn't completely disagree with his own nominations was a big mistake: he had me down as floater shortly before he became hoh.

I'll also note that despite his computer blowing up, he hasn't asked for a replacement.

[Skruffs]

Exactly.

I don't know about the rest of you, but *I* have been keeping my 'trustworthy' list up to date.

[Skruffs]

Why not pickem, pug? And why mneme and elmo? I still agree with your pick on fl, but mneme? Based on the mass wagoning on him, or for a more well thought reason?

[Skruffs]

Sorry for the pressure there, pug, I hadn't refreshed the phone since 3-30, you've mentioned ped since then

[Skruffs]

Pug, you went from almost nominating PEG to nominating both of PEG's replacement's choices, basically without any foretalking, which is exactly what you did last week when it was me and farside up.


Especially with this quote:
"This vote was placed less than a day and a half after the nominations were posted which seems a little quick to me and without any reasoning as to why he thought she was scum but that he thought Skruffs was not as his sole justification for his vote. I think he should have at least taken a closer look at both players before voting. "

If I remember correctly, Pug, you thought both players were town, and so pushed for a tie so that it would be randomly decided who would be evicted. However, you feel that PEG's nominatinos of them were 'innocent' - that he simply didn't update his list from earlier. Well, regardless of him not updating his list, why are you giving him a blank check? Apparently he has two townies (by your own thoughts) as the least trustworthy in the game - TWO out possibly Four, out of a total of 9 players. With 5 scum and four townies, he apparently rated all five scum over two townies. Even if he doesn't know who the other team's scum is, isn't it unusual at all, to you, to think that he would put townies at the bottom of his list?


Secondly, you've nominated Mneme twice, almost solely because he attacked DOS, who you feel is pro-town. Why would you defend DOS to such an extreme as to tryt oe liminate players that are suspicious of him?

[/fuss]

[Skruffs]

Would any one like to take any credit for something I'm not going to hint about? I think it's about time.

[Skruffs]

Farside:
Both of the close calls were when it was two floaters: me and distad, and me and you. Ryan was overwhelmingly evicted, over mneme, and vlr was overwhelmindly evicted, over fl.

So what are you saying? did you look at who was on which side for each round? The only time I've been able to vote this game, I voted mneme, over ryan.


I have reasons for my turn around on pug.

[Skruffs]

Someone's ignorin' me. Come on, you know who you are. Fess up.

[Skruffs]

Here's hoping farside was scum. I think she was.

[Skruffs]

I had to use it 1) to see who had it last week when a majority of people said that they thought both players were town and 2) because I felt that after this week, I had no idea who remaining was town, and after it fell into scum's hands, it would be very hard for town to win, especially if the player evicted or PEG was town (which would reduce the floater count to at least two, possibly one).


I also know (and this can't be confirmed) that I am a floater and can't be put up. If, best case, PEG was scum, there are 4 scum and 3 townies left, one of which can't be put up, so depending on KSc0pe, mneme's, mine, PEG and PUG's alignments, there are several situations. If KSc0pe is scum, and pug is town, (The veto's trail has VRK in it, which tends to insinuate he might be), then if PEG was town, everyone who is open for PUG to nominate is scum and so there is ntohing to worry about.

We'll see.

[Skruffs]

I think people are waiting for close to deadline to post anything >.>

[Skruffs]

Well, I was pretty sure that pug wasn't PA, because he didn't save ryan... My suspicions of him increased when he refused (in my opinion) to cooperate with my subtle hinting, which I thought was pretty antitown, because it was very likely (I thought) that scum would be passing it around between themselves.

I am not sure how the AD will autowin if we mislynch today? The nominations are determined by the hoh, as long as a non-ad gets the hoh, and nominates two ADs, things work out.

FL, it's a weak excuse and you got caught, I think.

[Skruffs]

Let's say that after all this, all three alpha dog trios are alive...
3-3(not ad)
IF a non AD gets HoH and nominates two ADs, the remaining AD can't save either of them (now that veto is gone) and one of htem will go. So even if they outnumber town, they still don't have the ability to win, I think.

[Skruffs]

It is actually a lot more likely (imo) that scum would try to keep power roles in their groups. This highly indicates that pug and fl are not scum... In my opinion, not because floaters gave it to them, but because they gave it to floaters.

Fl, why did you give the veto to me?

I will be voting ksc0pe.
Mneme. I did't save you because you are town, I only usd the veto because I had no idea who I could safely give it to and din't want to give scum the advantage of it so close to end game.

[Skruffs]

vote : kaliedesc0pe

[Skruffs]

Aaaagh why do the scum love me so????
I have been nominated as hoh twice now, both times by different scum groups!

[Skruffs]

Well... To be honest, there's only one person in the game I don't want to nominate, and I still don't know who it is. The other four of you are scum. So it doesn't REALLY matter which of you I nominate, and which of you I don't, because as long as I don't nominate the other floater, one scum team is being broken down to one player.

Thank you, KSc0pe, for making it easy for the HoH to nominate your scum buddies. ^.^


A few questions:
PUG: I gave you the veto after week one, and you did not use it to spare Ryan, who was evicted and turned out to be Pass.Agg. scum. You passed it to VRK, who I nominated the next week and was evicted as a townie.

How strange.
I must have not copied it over - I wanted your input on who to nominate or not nominate this week, but you kind of demurred. I guess I shouldn't have had to specifically ask you for your opinion, you should have given it anyways.

You make it sound like I didn't say anything this week but I did state who I wanted to be nominated.

Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

I not increadibly happy with either nominee but VRK's slip is really the most I have to go on.

You apparently thought that VRK was teh most townie in the game when you gave him the veto - so why did you decide to vote him out?
I'd really like you to explain yoru reasoning behind that.

FL: You probably are going to be going up against someone else. Who do you think is scummier than you?

[Skruffs]

I'm pretty sure that both FL and Elmo are scum.

[Skruffs]

Must be your sizzling good looks.

[Skruffs]

Everyone: please give me (publicly) a list from who you most to who you least want nominated.

I realize that 4 of the five lists will be by scum - that's fine. I want all of you to cement your suspicions now, so that it can be looked back on later.

*jeopardy music starts playing*

[Skruffs]

faeirie lord and mneme?

[Skruffs]

Also interesting: THe condorcet winner (stolen from Dante's in Frezno game) Is Faerie Lord and Mneme at this point. And those are the two who haven't posted their own lists yet.

[Skruffs]

Feel free to modkill, pablito! Makes my job easier

[Skruffs]

K, wekk, maybe fl has just given up? I dunno.

[Skruffs]

Thinking about the numbers... One of each group needs to go alternatingly each week. If two of one group, or any townies are eliminated, and the other group gets hoh, they win. So if you are scum, you should highly consider nominating either your partner or me or the other likely townie if you are eliminated.

Juast a friendly reminder from a lonely floater.

[Skruffs]

Nominate : Faerie Lord

That's only one, the other will be a bit later tonight.

[Skruffs]

Nominate : Faerie Lord and Elmo

There, it's official.

[Skruffs]

Enjoy the read... I went with the premise that FL was scum, and picked elmo because he was in the middle opf everyone's 'lists'.

[Skruffs]

I had several reasons for nominating who I did:

Faerie Lord -
1) STD's bizarre phrasing shortly before he was replaced
2) FL's tag-alonging behind KSc0pe in voting me, considering he also thought I was doing a great job of playing - trying to eliminate a player who he publicly said was acting pro town because the player before wasn't...
3) KSc0pe began "bussing" him soon after. Scum can probably smell scum, and considering they both acted similarly day one with their voting patterns, that seems a strong scumtell to me.

Most importantly:

4) He didn't make a list for me, which indicates he has no intention of cooperating or revealing what he thinks. My first HoH i asked ofa saimilar type of response from four players, and he was nommed then for the same reason, and after pickem's fiasco wit not updatintg his list i wanted to makme sure all of the remaining players HAD updated their lists.

So I am pretty sure that you are not the remaining townie, kuribo. I do like your christmas avatar, though.

Elmo:
Again, elmo's middling on people's list. I believe there is a ten time more likely chance that elmo is the remaining townie than FL. If I had nommed mneme or dos, those two players would have been voted out over FL.

I really wanted to see FL go today, so I nominated a player, a 'pawn', who I am not sure about but who i feel better about than FL. I am not sayign i nommed him because i think he's more likely the townie, i am saying that MOST people seem to think ambivalently of Elmo, so if Elmo gets lynched, the people who vote him over FL will have to explain themselves a lot more, later on.

Pug:
if mneme hadn't posted a list, he'd probably be up here. HE did post, so I took that factor out of my factoring.

THE reason I am hesitant to put up someone that everyone is against is becase in my opinion that person is a lot more likely to be town than scum. I am not saying i think mneme is town. I don't have the luxury of thinking ANYONE is town, I am thinking of beyound this week though.


So now you know!

[Skruffs]

I was also chosen as HOH by KSc0pe. Do you think I'm part of both mafias?
Also: if I was AD with KSc0pe, why would I have vetoed Mneme?
If I was PA, why would I have vetoed Mneme (and risk elmo being put up)

If I was either, why would I have passed the veto to Mneme in the beginning of the game?

Considering everyone in the game wants Mneme out - why would I have spared her (or DOS for that matter) to put Elmo - wwho most everyone put in the middle of their list?

I'm actually glad that you are questioning my actions - that's healthy.

Why do you think FL avoided using the veto when two people he claimed to have thought were townie were nominated?


Veto:
I received it week one and passed it to

Pug

.
I received it from Faerie Lord last week.
I used it to spare Mneme from evicion last week (over KSc0pe), freeing up a slot for
Faerie Lord to be nominated in his place.

Nominations(received);
I was nominated by DOS week one alongside Distad(townie)
I was nominated by Pickem(townie) (by default) week 4(?) alongside farside(townie)

HOH:
I was given Hoh by Ryan(Passive Aggressive Scum) week three
I was given Hoh by KSc0pe(Alpha Dog Scum) this week

Nominations(given):
I nominated VRK(townie) and Faerie Lord in my first nomination
I nominated Faerie Lord and Elmo in my second nominations.

Saying that two people voted together to eliminate scum is a weak, case, but it IS a nice try.

[Skruffs]

I think it's interesting that Kuribo hasn't tried to scumhunt against Elmo. Unless he thinks Elmo is "also" a townie... so far his only suggestion about Elmo is that if I am scum, elmo is my partner.


However, what is Elmo if I am not scum? If I am townie, dose that make Elmo townie?

[Skruffs]

IT *IS* two alive from each alliance, and BOTH Alliances need to A) eliminate one person from the other alliance and then B) get HOH afterwards. That's when an alliance wins.

So if a mafiate is eliminated today, they want to either nominate their partner or a townie as hoh next week. nominating the other team as hoh ensures a loss for their own team.

I agree that mneme is more likely town than others : That is why I vetoed pug's nomination of Mneme yesterday, and why I Didn't nominate her today.

[Skruffs]

Kuribo - you are going to be evicted. Want to out your partner?

[Skruffs]

Wow.

Well, I'm screwed.

I can't win, so you might as well nominate me.

[Skruffs]

Sorry, floaters.

[Skruffs]

Since I can't win, and you all know who is on your own scum teams, you guys want to illuminate me on which side is who, now? At least when I get eliminated, I can help one alliance win over the other.

[Skruffs]

Vote : Elmo

[Skruffs]

Seriously, though, why are you pretending?
You might as well be direct about it.

A, B <- scum team 1
C, D <- scum team 2
E <- townie

if A nominates C + D, then one of C/D is eliminated.
They can either nominate their partner as HOH (to ensure their partner makes it at least two more rounds), or nominate anyone else, which would result in their partner being eliminated.

So you guys may as well reveal who's actually aligned with who.

After C is eliminated, and noms D as HOH, D will nom either A/B or A/E, and if they nominate A/E, E is eliminated, and A's team wins.

WHat you shold have done, Mneme, was nominated me and someone from the other team, told me who your partner was, and I would have been eliminated, and nommed your partner to HOH. That would result in your win.

But you screwed up, and now the other team wins. congrats!

[Skruffs]

Well, town had a significantly depressed chance of winning, anyways, and with the floaters being modkilled and pickem or faerie lord, it's not like we had much of a chance anyways. It's my fault that two of them were eliminated, I apparently have a bad ability to have discerned scum from town in this situation. And scum seemed to be really good at picking who was townie out of the two.

my guess is that Mneme is the AD, and thus, pug is PA. Elmo is also PA, which means DOS is the last AD.

Anyone wanna confirm that? Mneme thinks pretending to be the townie will help him, somehow.

Also : Anyone want to confirm (and thus invalidate) any of the other 'powers' that haven't been used yet in the game?

[Skruffs]

I'm willing to modkill myself to help end the game faster. I can't win, so there's no reason for me to stick around.

[Skruffs]

Elmo, PUg, are you guys on the same team? either nominate each other or nominate me and I will nominate the two that didn't nominate you two.

[Skruffs]

Oooho, spicy!

[Skruffs]

I can't win. I evicted two floaters. But i can help your team not lose.

[Skruffs]

Seriously: i will not nominate the first team to cofirm (both players). Treat me like a neutral player, i can either go to final three and lose with one team or final two with the other and lose. I lose regardless, so you may as well confirm it all.

I blame pickem's computer failure for the town loss,

[Skruffs]

how so?
2 scum teams.


Ahh, I see.

Peh.

[Skruffs]

I think with 6 scum, out of 12 payers, the game mechanics should have been enforced - esp as the remain pa mafia could have easily nominated both top dogs, and one of them gone, it could have been a draw.

Town could effectively only lose 4 players to win, and had to eliminate 6, which made it extremely balanced against the town, statistically speaking. The mafia had a huge advantage, just be having 2 other 'knowns' on their team.

It was a fun game, but pickem's defaulting and farside being modkilled wound up making it nearly impossible tohave won... As town,

I also made some bad choices.

[Skruffs]

skruffs: "win on tie" was established as the scum win condition in the opening post -- and is necessary; without it, the game drags on endlessly, with very little chancer of scum winning rather than tying, and no incentive for the scum to play correctly even toward the end.

I do understand that it was established in the opening post (Even if I didn't realize that), but what I am saying is that the town has to eliminate 6 scum and at most 4 town, and at least one of each scum has to be eliminated? by teh halfway mark, 6 people?

With no investigative or protective roles, the town was severely outnumbered! That there were two groups who didn't know who the other group was, didn't matter for TOWN, because Town still was facing very harsh odds.

The town had to be right 50% of the time, and couldn't be wrong more than 33% of the time, with one faction-neutral power role to use (possibly by either side).

Kuribo: "Once I was evicted, I couldn't toss the HoH back to Scruffs anyway, so town was screwed. "Also true: Although with Kuribo evicted, I was screwed anyways.


I do not think that looking at it as similar to a "nightless" set up is at all fair, because in a nightless setup, lynches are determined by equal or majority rule.


In this game, one person determined the two people who were nominated, and could protect or target select people. So yes, I *possibly* had a chance to at least avenge the floaters by making it one scum vs one scum at the end game! However, I wasn't given that chance, and if you REALY want to base the voting mechanics on the Big Brother game, you really *should* have enforced it in that manner.


I would have made only ONE alliance, or, if you really want two alliances, make one mafia, and one masons. I honestly believe that 6 scum out of 12 with no other away to eliminate other than by voting was very balanced against the town.

[Skruffs]

Also: almost every townie who was voted out (excep vrk) had replaced in after being nominated, which wasn't helpful for them.

I don't think either scum group had nearly as bad odds: one scum vs one townie in endgame = scum win. Each scum one had three 'mislynches' to force and 3 scum lynches on other players - and that means half of their goals (scum lynches) were shared by the floaters and half (the mislynches) were shared by other scum, they were not nearly under the pressure to succeed.


I disagreed with mneme in the beginning about scum trying to help scum hunt and i still do!
I am still peeved that i always nominated townies, though. I should have gone with my gut on pug and not saved mneme.

[Skruffs]

I really did lose the game for town, untouchable ro not.

I thought giving everyone a say would result in scum influenced nominations, I guess I'm a vigilante at heart.