Open Countdown! Mini 487! GAME OVER!
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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I half expected this. The SK is on a timer, and he just put the town on one. Basically we have a 7 day deadline to lynch before he kills again. I expected him to kill as soon as possible so that he could kill again as soon as possible. However, I think this kill blew up in his face. Since he killed a mafia he now has to target townies or else he could end the game prematurely if town lynches a mafia and gets a scent...Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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As I read this, he can kill again if EITHER one week (real time) passes OR a lynch has occurred.Pooky wrote:1 Daykilling SK(can kill once per "day" or week)(If a week in time has passed since the last SK kill, he may kill again, if a lynch has occured since the last SK kill, he may kill again)Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Think of it like this guys, we're deadlined forAug 19, 2007 10:52 am, If we come to an agreement before then that is fine, but we must come to an agreement by that time or we effectively no-lynch.
Vote:MGM
I'm of the opinion that the SK has posted already. MGM is just a hunch, but I think I'll place a vote on him since no one has.
Its 11 alive, 6 to lynch.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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4 MafiaStewie wrote:
I don't quite get this. Can you rephrase?Kinetic wrote:However, I think this kill blew up in his face. Since he killed a mafia he now has to target townies or else he could end the game prematurely if town lynches a mafia and gets a scent...
1 Daykilling SK(can kill once per "day" or week)(If a week in time has passed since the last SK kill, he may kill again, if a lynch has occured since the last SK kill, he may kill again)
7 Townies
The SK only wins if he is the last person standing and neither team achieves their win condition. So if the SK kills a Mafia, there is only 3 left. If he keeps killing them, or if the town starts lynching them, the game could end quickly in a town victory and an SK loss.
The SK would have given himself better odds by killing a townie at this point in the game. By killing a mafia he basically speeds up the possibility that if town finds another mafia he could be in a very bad position very fast.
Again, more of just a hunch. Pooky isn't able to check the thread very much which makes me believe that the SK sent in his kill a little while ago but he just got it. Just a hunch, I admit, but a good one I think.Mgm wrote:
How did you come to that conclusion?Kinetic wrote:I'm of the opinion that the SK has posted already.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'll admit I'm not posting as much here as I am posting in my other games, but I'm reading this and more and more some things MGM is saying are rubbing me the wrong way.
Anyway, I just wanted to post a little more here so you guys don't forget about me.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Its not a really sudden change of opinion. My vote on MGM was just a hunch to begin with, and through out the exchange between MGM and HQ/CKD he has alleviated a few of the concerns I did have. I left it on there a little longer than I needed to, mainly so that I could read into some actions a little more.
And while I read more I saw HQ and CKD seeming to double team him and blow up the tiniest things that didn't seem to have any relevance.
I don't think both HQ and CKD are scum, but I have a feeling that one of the two might be. I picked HQ because he felt more scummy to me.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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MGM is currently the most likely person to be lynched based on the way the town is swaying at this moment. I could see the SK letting the town take care of MGM so he doesn't have to waste a kill on him. Remember, the SK only has one person he needs alive at the end, and that is himself. Everyone else has got to die eventually. I could see him picking off people who don't see likely to get lynched so he gets the most efficiency out of his kills. I also wouldn't put it past a newb SK to think that killing M4yhem would quicken MGM's lynch.
At this point I'm most suspicious of HazzleQ, but there are other people on my radar.
One thing to remember is that there are two scum groups and both of them have information that the town would like to have.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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So far both SK kills have been on people MGM jokingly targeted. Coincidence?curiouskarmadog wrote:
How exactly is the SK trying to frame MGM with a M4yham kill?Kinetic wrote:After that I'm even more convinced that the SK is trying to frame MGM. HazzleQ seems like the best suspect imo.
Exactly how it is working. Now don't get me wrong, I never said I don't think MGM could be scum, but I also think that it is mighty suspicious that the scummiest players in the game seem to be piling on MGM. The only reason I'm not attacking MGM is not because I don't think its possible for him to be scummy, but because I'm more suspicious of the people attacking him.curiouskarmadog wrote:Whole bunch of WIFOM
How does killing M4yham speed up the MGM lynch?
You are misconstruing my intentions and placing words in my mouth. I never defended MGM, I pointed out what I think is happening. Also, read the responses below, I think you'll find them enlightening.curiouskarmadog wrote:to me, it looks like he is defending MGM...by stating that the SK is framing MGM is a ploy to either get votes off of his scumbuddy or stop more votes compliing. I do not trust anybody enough in this game to defend anyone yet. Looks like Kinetic is sticking his neck out there for MGM by posting this comment. Why?
Wow, the way you put those quotes, almost seemed like that was an exchange between me and Mirth. However those "two" posts by me were from the same post, and the one from Mirth was from a little while back. Sorry, I didn't even notice that question in the post at the time, next time if you're going to quote like that mention post numbers in the quote so there isn't any confusion.HazzelQ wrote:Ok, I have two things to add:Kinetic wrote:After that I'm even more convinced that the SK is trying to frame MGM. HazzleQ seems like the best suspect imo.Mirth wrote:Kinetics post (...)
I'd like to know exactly why he thinks Hazzel is the best suspect.
1) Kinetic- why don't you answer the question? Why do you think I am the most likely one to be SK?Kinetic wrote:At this point I'm most suspicious of HazzleQ, but there are other people on my radar.
One thing to remember is that there are two scum groups and both of them have information that the town would like to have.
2) What information are you talking about? Who they are, or what...?
Question 1: I never said I thought you were the Serial Killer. I wanted to see if you'd slip up... like that . No no, I think you're mafia not the SK. The way you're voting, the lashing out and attacks, all of it screams mafia to me. Now I have stated I don't have an air tight, open-shut case against you, but I have a strong gut feeling that you and possibly one of your scum buddies is on MGM. And I also have a strong feeling that the mafia thinks that MGM is the SK. I also think that MGM isn't the SK at this point, and that the SK is currently hiding- most likely in plain sight.
Question 2: The SK is a scum group consisting of only him(or her)self. That is what I meant by two scum groups. I should have been more clear and said scum factions, but groups work all the same. That being said, the mafia know exactly who is on their team. That is information that if the town had could help us discern a lot out of the game. And SK has information on who he is going to kill next, why, and how he plans to survive.
That is all pretty basic mafia stuff. I would have assumed I wouldn't have had to explain it (referring to question 2).Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Bleh, no that is my notes failing me >>. I noted d3s pointing out the m4yhem thing, then I had MGM voting m4yhem next but it was really heatherlou. I went back and noticed this just now. Honest mistake, don't blow it out of proportion.curiouskarmadog wrote:OK officially FOS Kinetic.
Well, this is inaccurate or an out and out lie. Please post where MGM jokingly targeted M4yham. He jokingly target d3sisted and me.Kinetic wrote:
So far both SK kills have been on people MGM jokingly targeted. Coincidence?curiouskarmadog wrote:
How exactly is the SK trying to frame MGM with a M4yham kill?Kinetic wrote:After that I'm even more convinced that the SK is trying to frame MGM. HazzleQ seems like the best suspect imo.
I answered your question, however that was based on my mistake that MGM voted for him. Calm down, I get it, I made a mistake. Jeez. Plus, my original point still stands, the SK wants MGM lynched no matter what his alignment. He's going to leave the people voting him alone so that they can continue to push him.curiouskarmadog wrote:
Did you actually answer my question or just scoot around it? AGAIN, how does killing M4yham speed up the MGM lynch? So far it has done absolutely nothing.Kinetic wrote:
Exactly how it is working. Now don't get me wrong, I never said I don't think MGM could be scum, but I also think that it is mighty suspicious that the scummiest players in the game seem to be piling on MGM. The only reason I'm not attacking MGM is not because I don't think its possible for him to be scummy, but because I'm more suspicious of the people attacking him.curiouskarmadog wrote: How does killing M4yham speed up the MGM lynch?
[/quote]curiouskarmadog wrote:
Interesting. Why did you feel it necessary to point it out now? Who was that post for? As it stands you say the people attacking MGM are scummier…but MGM could be scum. Looks like you have cleared yourself both ways. If the MGM lynch goes down (or if he is Nked) and he comes up scum, you can always fall back on “well, I never said I don’t think MGM could be scum”. By stating you think the people “pushing” then lynch are scummier, is a way of defending MGM. I could go into a deeper analysis of why (or how rather) you are defending him, but you are not an idiot. You know you are defending him.Kinetic wrote:
You are misconstruing my intentions and placing words in my mouth. I never defended MGM, I pointed out what I think is happeningcuriouskarmadog wrote:to me, it looks like he is defending MGM...by stating that the SK is framing MGM is a ploy to either get votes off of his scumbuddy or stop more votes compliing. I do not trust anybody enough in this game to defend anyone yet. Looks like Kinetic is sticking his neck out there for MGM by posting this comment. Why?
I am directly asking you, do you think MGM is scum or not?
I. Don't. Know. I'm telling you directly, I DON'T KNOW! Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But I am not going to be pressured by you into saying one way or the other. This sort of high-pressure tactics is what I've seen scum use millions of times to try and force someone to make a choice when both choices are rigged to lose.
If I say he's scum you will just think its scum giving up one of their own if he's scum, or scum trying to mislead the town if he's town.
If I say I think he's town you push this "connection" even more, and I'm screwed no matter WHAT he comes up as. Because if he comes up scum than you will say I'm his scum buddy, and if he comes up town you'll call me scum trying to latch onto a townie to avoid suspicion!
I'll tell you EXACTLY what I think. I still think YOU and HazzleQ, and to a lesser extant Mirth, are the three scummiest players in the game. Mirth not as much, but still he has a weird odor in my opinion. And as long as you three are the ones pushing the MGM lynch I'm going to look at it with a very suspicious eye.
And no, this is not defending MGM. I still am not sure about him, I am just more unsure of the three I mentioned, and I'm not going to follow anyone blindly either way.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Continue to say exactly the opposite of what I am saying. I never said I don't find MGM scummy, and if I had to give a number estimate on who I find scummy, MGM and Mirth would be about equal in my book. But I STILL find you and HazzleQ the most scummy people here. Your own certainty that MGM is scum is scummy as hell. No one but scum know that with such certainty and I have yet to see anything from MGM that would have you so certain.curiouskarmadog wrote:Interesting that the 3 people voting for him you are calling scummy…Why is that? Why is MGM not in your scummy radar, but HazzleQ, myself, and Mirth are? Again you paint a MGM lynch as scummy..I wonder if he gets another vote, well that person be scummy too?
I still think MGM is the lynch of the day…when he comes up scum, I know where I want to go next.
The only reason I'm not also jumping on MGM is because you and HazzleQ are on the top of my suspect list. Simple as that. And this "defense" ha! I'm defending MGM the same way you're defending HazzleQ. So maybe you should look at yourself a little more.
And don't give me those off the cuff threats. They're not going to convince me to follow you because "O no, MGM might be scum, I better follow CKD!"Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I was merely pointing out that the SK wouldn't attack MGM at all, and I would doubt he would do anything to prevent an MGM lynch. I thought I had more evidence in this matter when I decided to bring up this point, but I later learned I was wrong. That being said, it is a very fair point to be made in my opinion and not one that has been contradicted, even by the people attacking me.Raffles wrote:Kinetic: I'm unnerved by your absolute confidence on what is on the mind of the scum groups, without a drop of WIFOM in your way. It's almost as if you are the scum, even though I don't want to believe that because it is too obvious. Such example include:
And why not anyone else? Does it really matter for SK who gets lynched, if they are so unconcerned about the lynchee's alignment? If anything, I think you are putting into our subconcious that MGM is indeed our choice of lynch for today.Kinetic wrote: SK wants MGM lynched no matter what his alignment
And no, it doesn't matter who gets lynched for the SK, except of course, the SK himself. He would need to start trying to target mafia if the town starts to get backed up, but until then his killing of d3 makes it so he has pretty much free reign.
Originally I was the first one who suspected MGM of being scum (specifically I thought him to be the SK), but recent events have turned me from that idea. That is most of the reason why I've started to look critically at those who are attacking MGM at this point. I've not completely ruled out MGM as scum, but like I said, recent events are turning me away from that idea.
And my personal opinion on WIFOM: When I make a choice I look at it from what I know and choose a path to follow. Almost any choice made in a game can really be considered WIFOM, but eventually a choice has to be made. I take my best stab at discovering the motive and try to prove it. I don't enjoy saying something is WIFOM and I don't enjoy using WIFOM as an excuse if I can avoid it.
Most of my thoughts on the m4yhem kill were lost when my main theory was blown up. To me it just looks like the SK targeting someone out of the way and for the most part at this point I've written it off. If I notice something in the future I'll be sure to bring it up.Raffles wrote:I'm also not feeling the vibe for how the SK killed d3sisted in order to frame MGM. I think it was just a lucky coincidence for SK that he picked a person at random, that person was a mafia, and MGM was voting him at the same time. Now M4yhem kill might be that since people raised suspicion at MGM for voting d3sisted (rather stupidly I might add - you really can't base any serious accusation from anything that happened at random vote stage), he decided to play along with the theme. (Although I'm no where near 100% convinced on this theory, but it's the best I have at the moment) Now I won't be at all surprised if the SK is the one who suggested this connection in the first place. Most likely to buy some time by making us concentrate on something utterly useless. And that would be you, Kinetic.
I'm also not in favour of how you OMGUSly reacting to CKD.
As for the supposed OMGUS response to CKD, I thought HazzleQ and CKD were scummy back when I originally voted for HQ and I picked Hazzle because he wasn't posting at much and seemed like scum that was trying to "go with the flow". But when Hazzle seemed to jump on me for little to no reason I took a look back and didn't really like the way he was jumping around. His threatening me like he did didn't help his case in my book, I'll admit, but it wasn't by far my only reason for looking at him.
Really? Nothing he said gives you the least bit pause? *rolls eyes*Raffles wrote:CKD: The only person who I can see talking some sense. At the moment, I have nothing to point out.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Alright, I've made quite a few dumb errors in this game so far and I'm getting picked apart because of the sheer stupidity on my part. Nothing like college starting up again to really boggle the mind, no?
Anyway, I'm going to delete my current notes on this game, re-read, and try and figure out why I'm not making much sense even to myself.
Unvotefor now, but I'm still pretty sure I'll place it back where it was when I'm done. I've got no work or class tomorrow (today?) so I should have plenty of time to get through this thread and come back with my opinions/logic.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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I understand what xyzzy is talking about. I felt very similar about CKD at that point.
And Mirth I thought I already addressed that... I didn't lie intentionally. If HQ's entire reason to throw my suspicions in my face is because I made a mistake (something he's done multiple times, yet is surprisingly lax about it), then that is just hypocritical.
In one of those posts I wrote comments similar to both of the ones he quoted. I looked at that and for some reason was convinced that I saw both of them in that post and didn't notice the post before it (even though I thought I looked). I wouldn't intentionally lie about something that is so easily proved false, or at least I would hope you'd think something like that would be just dumb. I'll admit, it was dumb, but I can't see a reason for anyone, regardless of alignment to do that unless it was a mistake. I still feel strongly about HQ being scum enough to vote him.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Is CKD... defending HQ because he might be mafia?
Wow...
CKD, simple as this, if HQ isn't SK and is mafia, I'll be completely fine with lynching him. At this point, almost any lynch will help us because of the information we can gain from it. I really wanted to push the town to lynch before the second SK kill, but if you are really saying you'd rather the town be completely stale until we have a concrete, airtight case, then you are scum scum scum. We're not going to have any really good information until we start lynching. With the SK killing every Sunday, that means we need to get something going quickly. HQ is my main choice, but you're not far down the list.
If it is a choice between Hazzle and you, thats a hard choice in my opinion, but no one else is really sticking out as scummy in my book.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'm not twisting your words around! You said it again! Of course the SK needs to die, and I think we need to find him, but giving him extra kills and still not lynching hasn't been helping us at all! If hazzle is not the SK but is mafia, I won't shed a tear at all! In case you were forgetting, both the mafia and the SK need to die. I think HQ could be SK, but think its more likely he's teamscum. But I'm not going to NOT lynch HQ because he might not be the SK!Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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If she comes up town, yes, that sucks. Wanna know what is worse? A town that is paralyzed and refuses to lynch with a DAYKILLING SK loose! One whose Daykills refresh weekly! At this point we need to stop with the crap and start with the lynching.
If you think HQ is town: EXPLAIN WHY!
If you think you have a better choice for SK: EXPLAIN WHY!
Don't just say "o no, he might not be, we should wait guys until the SK kills again..".......Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Oh.... my.... god......curiouskarmadog wrote:then you are either short sighted, foolish, or the SK.
our focus should be the SK...of course I want to lynch mafia..but again, if Hazzel comes up town...what then?
YOU SAID IT AGAIN! Killing mafia is just as important as killing the SK! In fact, finding the mafia might even be HARDER in this game than finding the SK because they can't kill. I won't lose sleep over lynching in a deadlined game.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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If we continually derail lynches the only person who wins is the Serial Killer. Lynching is the only way the town gets concrete information.curiouskarmadog wrote: when we lynch, that Daykilled is really sped up isnt it?
Yet that still doesn't talk about the main issue, you have a problem trying to find MAFIA. In case you didn't realize the town needs to kill them too!curiouskarmadog wrote:I dont think that Hazzel is the SK because she a.) didnt know this game was going on until after the first Daykill and b.) she was having problems posting here in general. If you actually read the thread you would know this…
Your certainty that HQ only makes me think you are not the SK either, but that doesn't mean I don't think you're scum. You're right, I don't know who the SK is, how can I hunt something I'm not 100% sure of! I know that there are mafia out there too, and I also know that people who are suspicious can be either mafia or SK. So I'm going to hunt them both and vote for the person I find who I think has the best chance of being scum. Trust me, you're second on my list.curiouskarmadog wrote:I think you might be the SK or at least scum!
Vote: Kinetic
Your lack of desire to find the SK immediately.
I'm not lynch hungry... I'm town who knows the important of lynching in a deadlined game! You're either a scum trying to avoid losing a scum buddy or a townie that doesn't know the importance of a lynch.curiouskarmadog wrote:You appear lynch hungry.
No, you and HQ attached me to MGM, I pointed out the idiocy behind your attacks on him.curiouskarmadog wrote: You have seemed to attach yourself to MGM.
Which I admitted that my case was slightly wrong when I confused who MGM voted for, but the main point was that the SK didn't attack anyone pushing MGM. Seemed quite odd that the SK avoided that whole thing all together.curiouskarmadog wrote:You assumed the SK was trying to frame MGM?
Self Fulfilling prophecy? This is another comment that makes me think you're not SK but still scum. You call me scummy but all your 'reasons' are false. You say I'm the best bet only because you think I might be the SK. But let me throw this back at you, what if I'm town? Kind of useless to say, no? But you keep saying it to defend HQ.curiouskarmadog wrote:Your overall play in this thread is scummy. I think this is our best bet for a lynch today…Especially if Hazzel is lynched and come up town.
What game are you playing? Are you teamscum and you know that HQ is town and want to push for me to be lynched after that happens? No, I'm pretty sure that if HQ comes up town (which I'm pretty sure won't happen), but if thathappen, I would look closer at your absolute certainty of that fact as much more scummy than anything else.did
Absolute total BS. You call what I did defending MGM but this outright defense of HQ is so obvious it doesn't need me to point it out.curiouskarmadog wrote:
again with the words in my mouth..I have not defended Hazzel..hopefully the town notes you are trying to set me up for something...Kinetic wrote:And your twisted defense of HQ is noted CKD. If he does come up teamscum we know who his partner might be.
that being said, SK feel free to pop me off next Daykill...I think once the town sees I am town...much of this conversation will be telling. Matter of fact I dare you to Daykill me!
Sounds verrrrry scummy to me. Heck, I'd unvote and vote you if I thought we could get you to lynch before Sunday. But with the way this town jumps and jives (it doesn't...), I think I might just derail the HQ lynch if I did so.
But you know, there is a better way to "prove" your story. Hammer HQ. You're so sure, hammer him. But you won't. No way, if he's town and you're scum there is no way you'll go near this wagon. You're more likely to hammer him if he's your scum buddy than if he isn't.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'm pretty sure I've been against CKD/HQ this entire time. And I have no problem with lynching CKD if we can get it done before Sunday... But at this rate if we don't lynch SOMEONE this Sunday we are going to lose. Either to the mafia or the SK. There are 9 people left, 3 of who are mafia, 1 who is the SK. That basically means that if we don't lynch this Sunday and the SK doesn't hit a Mafia, then the mafia will basically control the vote and can start hunting the SK for the virtual win. That is what makes me even MORE scared that CKD is mafia. He has all but admitted that HQ and him are mafia, but says we should avoid that because the SK is still around. Well guess what, for the mafia the SK IS the biggest threat, but at this rate the Mafia may be a bigger threat to the town than the SK...Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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The way CKD is basically saying "ignore the HQ behind the big mafia curtain, let's only search for the SK". I find that scummy as hell. I'm pretty sure I said that... And you don't need to ask like that, if you would have just asked once I would have responded. I'm not avoiding exactly avoiding conversation...Mirth wrote:
How?Kinetic wrote: He has all but admitted that HQ and him are mafia, but says we should avoid that because the SK is still around.
No, really, how?
I'd like an actual explanation out of you.
I'm not going to downplay the bad that happens if we mislynch. Its bad, I agree, thats why I'm pushing for at least a mafia lynch. The problem with letting the mafia try and headhunt the SK at this point is that they are MUCH more likely to hit a townie than a SK. If we go to the lynch saying we want to hit a mafia or the SK, we have a much better chance at getting one or the other.Mirth wrote:Also, looking at the flipside, if we mislynch and then the SK hits town again, then we are even more screwed.
Now, we are at nine. The SK doesn't care who swings. So this means 3 mafia will try to vote someone who isn't them, SK will vote whoever. Town is in the dark. If we kill a townie, one of two things happen.
a) SK kills townie, we are at 7, with three mafia, three townies, 1 SK. SK will go with the most likely lynch. So a townie will probably die. That would mean the day starts off with five. At that point it would be most likely for the SK to have killed a mafia player overnight. Mafia have a 1/3 chance of lynching correctly then, but would need a townie to go along with them. Either way, this scenerio is bad, bad, very bad.
b) SK kills mafia, we are at 7. 2 mafia, 1 SK, 4 townies. Mafia will most likely wagon on someone, and I assume the SK would join in. So a townie will probably die. At night it would be more statstically sound for a townie dying again. See above.
I'm going to purpose at, statistically speaking, since Hazel has 4 votes, there has to be at least 1 scum voting Hazel, most likely 2.
But even in both your options, the town doesn't immediately lose. In fact, your B option could also work if the town lynched a mafia and the SK killed a townie. Honestly, Option B is not too bad a position for the town in, and I really don't think you have it right at all. The mafia are not going to act that scummy.
But let's see you put your vote where your mouth is.
Unvote:Vote:CKD
But we need to make a decision by Sunday, so that means everyone who is being so critical for the town needs to be here.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'm sorry Raffles, we haven't been introduced, you keep lurking and giving one liners like that.Raffles wrote:
Watch this vote count, there is SK on that list, I'm sure of it.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:VC:
4 HazzelQ(Kinetic, MGM, Stewie HeatherLou)
1 MGM ( HazzelQ)
1 Kinetic(CuriousKarmaDog)
The only two people not voting on that list are Mirth and yourself. I'd like it if you gave me your opinions on CKD and HQ. Now would be preferable, before the lynch. Since both are at -3, if you feel strongly about either I also wouldn't see the harm in you voting as such.
What is most interesting about your post though is that HQ/CKD I've already stated I don't think are SKs. I'm pretty sure one or both is mafia. You, on the other hand, I think could be either SK or Mafia. Mirth I'm not too sure about, but I don't think she's mafia.
Right now, if I had to choose, I would say that the mafia are:
HQ, Raffles, and CKD
and the SK is either Stewie or Mirth
I would really like it if everyone else made a similar list. It would help us all get on the same page, and it may enlighten us after some of the killing happens.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I don't agree with the SK hammering out of turn. Seems like the SK would wait and see if he could go another week with a no lynch. Heck, if he did, he would get another kill before we lynched (His timer resets after a kill too). As such, I find people who are slow to vote more likely to be SK material, thus Mirth and Stewie are higher on my SK list, then say, you or MGM.Raffles wrote:HazzelQ is probably as closed as confimed anyone can get on not being SK. Why? Because of Jeep. Then why one of those 4 voters? Because if SK isn't on that list, he'd have easily hammered.
No... not at all. In fact, the SK has been targeting inactives, something which he could plan well in advance, tell the Mod, and when the appointed time comes... bam. He could be a lurker type like you or Stewie easily...Raffles wrote:From looking at the kills, the SK seems to be a good time-keeper, never late to submit his executions. What does that mean? Someone who checks back often (not neccessarily to post, however).
No... its in the SK's best interest that no lynch take place, his kill to lynch ratio raises every time we fail.Raffles wrote:HazzelQ wouldn't have been particularly the hard one to place hammer on either. So why wasn't he hammered? Because SK is already on the wagon. It's in the SK's interest to have a lynch occuring at fastest possible pace, so he can speed up on the rate of kill.
It doesn't matter when he kills at all. The timer resets completely. If we lynch now or Saturday night, his kill to lynch ratio stays the same. If we no lynch his ratio rises though...Raffles wrote:Incidentally, this is why I didn't hammer, although I was going to later. One kill a week is more than enough for our SK, we don't need to feed him more.
Its very simple, someone better be lynched before Sunday or the town win becomes bleak. Even with a town lynch we at least have a better chance than with no lynch. I wanted peoples opinions in stone so IF that happens I'll have more to look at after the first lynch to try and find scum.Raffles wrote:I'm a tad confused by you saying "before the lynch" too, no one is on L-1 atm, are they?
You almost sounds like the SK... its creepy. Stop giving him all these pats on the back. Anyway, the core of your question is false though, he has yet to kill anyone active. On top of that, a lynch gives us bandwagon information, something to look back on and concretely say: You did this and this happened, explain yourself, it gives the town a hand in trying to find scum, etc etc etc. What you're saying is ludicrous.Raffles wrote:What I can't fathom is why would you get less information from SK kill than a lynch? I mean, what difference does it make, so long as the one killed by SK was active? I can ssure you SK will keep up one a week. He won't feel sorry for little, helpless, powerless, spineless, cheeseless mafias and townies, I'm sure of that. And I think it's a bigger interest of SK to kill mafia rather than townies anyway. So if anything, SK will be playing more like a vig (until all mafia is dead).
CKDs buddying with HQ mid-gameRaffles wrote:CKD: I still stand by that he is talking sense. Unless you can convince me otherwise with a good reasoning, I'm not going to vote for him just yet.
CKD's defending HQ
CKD refusing to try and help find scum
The fact that you don't see any of this makes me even more suspicious that you might just be CKD's scum partner. CKD-HQ-Raffles, if that is the mafia group I'd laugh my ass off. I don't think its possible to find all three this early, but that's my best bet right now.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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CKD, stop calling for yourself to be killed. If youwerea townie as you claim that would be a bad thing, no? I'm sorry, I don't believe you.
[quote=Kinetic]He has all but admitted that HQ and him are mafia, but says we should avoid that because the SK is still around.[/quote]
[quote=CKD]what? I have admitted Hazzel and I are mafia?TOWN IF YOU DO NOT SEE KINETIC FOR WHAT HE IS YOU ARE BLIND!?[/quote]
I realize you seem to have trouble with the english language. What I said is you have done everything except admit you two were mafia. But to me, all the signs are there. Also, if you are a townie, stop talking to the town like you are not a part of it
I am not lying. I have explained everything I have seen to the best of my ability. Stop calling me a liar just because you have trouble understanding grammer.
And what part of my case am I lying about? You are actively discouraging trying to find mafia! You are actively discouraging lynching!
And Mirth, its this simple, I am willing to lynch either CKD or HQ. I prefer CKD and if we CAN get a lynch going on him before deadline then I would like to go with that. If we can't, I know we can get a lynch on HQ. I will be around and will switch my vote back if so. But I would like to see how far this will go first.
Raffles: Because he's only killed twice? Are you telling me his kills havn't been on inactive players?
And seriously, if you don't see why no lynch is bad for the town by now than maybe I should just resign myself to a town loss now... Its so fundamental that I can't believe I'm actually pulling teeth here to try and LYNCH before a deadline...
If anyone REALLY thinks that the mafia is CKD/HQ/Me, then you are one sick person. I will personally help lynch either of those two. I'm positive one if not both of them are scum.
Raffles: In order, who are the scummiest people in this game in your opinion. Have you voted at all this game? Or made any concrete decision? All I seem to see from you is lazy comments from the peanut gallery.
I've got class in 5 minutes, I've got to go. But please, make some progress... any progress. Hell I would self hammer myself if it meant a lynch before deadline because I HONESTLY believe the town will lose unless there is some lynch. EVEN if they lynch a townie they still have a chance in hell, which is better than what is going on now.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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They weren't meant as insults, and I tried to pick my wording carefully as not to be seen that way. I'm serious, I've noticed many grammar errors in almost all of your responses and it makes me think that english is your second language is all. I could go back and document them all, but I think that would be insulting.curiouskarmadog wrote:I realize you seem to have trouble with the english language. What I said is you have done everything except admit you two were mafia. But to me, all the signs are there. Also, if you are a townie, stop talking to the town like you are not a part of it
Nice insults, seems the more pressure that is on you the uglier your play gets
You keep calling me a liar and that is not the way it is >>. You're insulting me by saying that and I keep trying to show you I'm not "lying". We have differing opinions, and someone might be wrong, but that doesn't mean they are lying.curiouskarmadog wrote:I am not lying. I have explained everything I have seen to the best of my ability. Stop calling me a liar just because you have trouble understanding grammer.
yes, yes you are..more insults..good for you
And both MGM and myself will be here before Saturday. If no lynch on you happens before then, then we can easily change back. I would like to see how far this is going to go. We are still effectively at town day one with no lynch and we are almost at LYLO! That doesn't bother you?! Plus:curiouskarmadog wrote:And what part of my case am I lying about? You are actively discouraging trying to find mafia! You are actively discouraging lynching!
Now that you have moved your votes away from Hazzel, we are that much further away from a lynch, who is actively against lynching now? please show me where I am actively discouraging trying to find mafia? THIS...IS...A...LIE. Unless you are saying that you know HazzelQ is mafia? How do you know that Kinetic? Are you trying to sacrifice one of your own?
curiouskarmadog, post 285 wrote:so I guess my real question is are the people voting for Hazzel voting for her because she is mafia or because she is the SK. Personally I think we need to find the SK immediately. How do we do that? I do not know (first time in a game with a SK)....Mirth, in the huge PBP did anything stick out that was SK like?
You have stated very clearly in these two posts that you think that lynching mafia is not worth it. You stated we should only be looking for the SK, and that looking for anyone else is wrong.curiouskarmadog, post 287 wrote:I said I think we should lynch the SK..I do not think it is possible for Hazzel to be the SK..simple as that...if we lynch now and we do not hit the SK (we lose two more people from the pool) Why dont you think it is important to look for the SK now Kinetic?
In the first post you actually asked if people thought HQ was Mafia or SK, and then said you didn't think he was the SK, and that we should not lynch him because his chance of being the SK is low...
You continue to say that we should only target the SK, call me the SK but you then say you think I'm in the mafia with MGM. You can't have it both ways.
Obviously everyone is going to remember ... >> I stand by my cases, you keep backing up and around, turning and spinning. Its funny, half the players think this is a fake fight and you keep telling them that you're effectively being bullied >>.curiouskarmadog wrote:And Mirth, its this simple, I am willing to lynch either CKD or HQ. I prefer CKD and if we CAN get a lynch going on him before deadline then I would like to go with that. If we can't, I know we can get a lynch on HQ. I will be around and will switch my vote back if so. But I would like to see how far this will go first.
I want everyone to remember Kinetic was strongly pushing my lynch!!! The SK is going to kill someone...why do you care if he hits me Kinetic? If you lynch HazzelQ and the SK hits me...then your proposed scum group is gone (uh oh Kinetic, looks like your arguement has hit a wall)....I want the SK to hit me, so the town sees you for what you are...I would rather the town lynch scum today..not lynch me.
And you goading the SK isn't going to influence him to do anything. You'll just be creating a WIFOM situation that is honestly just annoying to read.
If you die and come up town, its WIFOM. If you die and come up scum, its WIFOM. If you die and come up SK... well that would be quite humorous if the SK did the killing....
That doesn't change my opinion. I think you are scum, and I think HQ is also scum. Simple as that. I willing to vote either of you right now, and at this point I don't think there is much that can convince me to vote anyone else before the looming deadline.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Stop. Acting. Like. This. CKD.
You're not listening to your own backwards logic. You think I'm mafia or SK, so your coloring everything I do like that because of it. Everything I say, you think has malice. Everything I do has some weird ulterior motive.
Do this for me: Re-read everything I've written, but just imagine that I'm town while doing it. Imagine that I'm confirmed and see that there is a possibility that some of my mistakes are not intentional like you think but they are clumsy or misguided.
I still think you're scum, but for some reason I'm having a few doubts about you. And they have nothing to do with you. I'm at work, and I really can't explain, later tonight I will though.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Alright, it looks like something on CKD is not going to happen today.
Unvote;Vote:HQ
That should put him at -1, so he should be hammered before the end of the day Sat. I might not be around before then so I need to vote now so we don't mistakenly miss another lynch.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Mirth: I already addressed this, the SK doesn't get any "extra time" if we lynch early. If its already decided at this point then it doesn't matter what we do tomorrow unless we completely change our minds. Thats why I tried to see if we could do anything else before I settled on HQ.
At this point I don't think anything will happen. All that will happen is you lynch now is you will reset the SK's timer for day kill. And theoretically, depending on how long he takes to day kill his next victim after lynch we will have a little more than a week from the time the lynch is finalized before we must lynch again.
At this point everyone should understand we need to lynch faster. After today I want everyone coming back ready, because we need to try and lynch about once a week after this or we have a high chance of losing no matter WHO we lynch.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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But we are still arguing the same points now... That day time wise is... meh... Honestly I'd like to know HQ's alignment so I can start thinking about what it means. I'm pretty sure he is scum, but I'd like to know if I was right or not. Its a rather important point which is going to be major in the coming week.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Didn't notice the thing on the front page.
As for putting me, CKD, and HQ in the same group, that is completely ridiculous. I was the one who found them BOTH scummy to begin with and attacked HQ because I found him to be the scummiest of the two. I am surprised CKD died to the SK, because honestly I thought he WAS the SK... However at this point I find Mirth and Raffles to be the scummiest two players remaining.
I would like to do some re-reading of the last few pages to find more information, and I am QUITE suspect of Mirth for having such a quick response to the day. We're not at LYLO and I take a lot of credit for that, so hold your horses up.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I meant so quick with your vote, the fact that you are that sure of me is scummy, especially since...
It doesn't make sense for me to be mafia, I lead the attack on HQ, who happened to BE mafia. There are two more out there, care to tell me who you think my other partner is if I am mafia?
It doesn't make sense for me to have been SK and killed CKD. Honestly, I would have lead and advocated a LYNCH against him... I openly admit I thought he WAS mafia. The fact that the SK DID kill him actually helps me out, since now I don't have to lead said lynch, and can focus on looking at other people. I can be sure that this week would have been filled with me and CKD arguing until one of us died... Why the SK killed his is WAY beyond me...
I cannot imagine a scenario at this time where this helps him... unless he wants the town to lynch me... But if he does that then where is he left??? No, he would have been better off in my opinion killing someone other than me or CKD, having the two of us fight until one of us was lynched, or caused a standstill so he could kill relentlessly again. And then once ONE of us was lynched, the other would be since either of us coming up town would have doomed the other...
Doesn't make sense...Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Whoa, whoa...Amazing the two people I find the most scummy are trying to bandwagon me. Gasp.
And I didn't follow MGM... I said in my posts before that I would have rather lynch CKD. Simple as that. When MGM tried to get that lynch going, I tried to help. When that lynch failed, I returned to HQ just like I said I would. I thought they were both scum, and I am truthfully surprised that CKD turned up as not being scum.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Eek Gad, Precognitive deflection!Kinetic, post 375 wrote:However at this point I find Mirth and Raffles to be the scummiest two players remaining./quote]
Raffles, post 379 wrote:The fact that Kinetic was on the HQ wagon yesterday (when I mentioned the vote count) and the way he following MGM's ass bothered me the most yesterday. I'm happy to go with kinetic SK lynch.
Vote: Kinetic
Anyway, I'm currently doing a quick re-read, let me finish that then I'll try to explain better why I wouldn't target CKD. Granted, it might have a little WIFOM (I know you're so fond of it Raffles, you have a whole lake of it ), but I'll try to explain anyway...Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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... Alright, I have a huge post on my re-read coming up that I'm building right now, but that can wait a little while (I'm on page 12 or so with that). I kinda wanna address this point that Mirth brought up.
The way I see it, if I'm going to figure out why I wouldn't target CKD as SK, the easiest way is to put my self in the SK's shoes and figure out who I WOULD target.
So I did that...and my conclusion is:
I would kill CKD with such a vengeance he would never know what hit him. ...
Which is incredibly odd, because in my mind, if I was the SK, but I was anyone but me (err, like if the SK was MGM and I was MGM), there is absolutely NO reason to target CKD, unless they truly thought he was mafia and wanted to kill him and get it over with...
Now let me try and explain myself here, because I realize I just admited that if I ws SK I would kill exactly who was killed last night, but I've got to talk through this because that sounds like madness to admit:
It is absolutely certain that CKD and myself would have been at odds this day, should he be alive. The person who was lynched of the two of us most certainly would have been a coin flip figuring what HQ came up as, mafia or town. If he came up mafia, CKD was likely to be lynched. If he came up town, I was likely to be lynched.
If I was the SK, I couldn't chance that outcome. I would have to kill CKD, so if HQ came up town and CKD came up mafia, I could be safe that way and claim that, and if HQ came up Mafia and CKD came up town, I could be safe that way.
Yet the reason I personally am so confused is that I cannot imagine the non-me SK killing CKD because it seems like to me that the SK was ensured a lynch between me and CKD...
Unless... Unless the SK calculated that either HQ or CKD was mafia, and knew the game would continue if he didn't hit a mafia. With those two as the top choices, it could even be the SK thought I might be mafia and effectively made a coin flip between killing me or CKD....
Honestly, I never fathomed the SK killing CKD, I thought either CKD was the SK or if he wasn't there was no way the SK would listen to him, but it makes perfect sense I was SK to kill CKD...
Gah >> I've been framed and in my own eyes I think I have the best reason to do it......
Bleh, all I can say is that just wait until I finish my re-read post (within the hour), I made some interesting insights, and I think I might have a clue who the scum groups are. If you absolutely MUST lynch me, I can almost understand, but I still want to win this game, and if I have to do it posthumously, that is ok too.
Man, I know its a mistake to post this... I can smell the WIFOM goodness already >>Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'm re-reading the thread and a few things have turned up. If the people I direct these questions at could answer them I would be appreciative.
First off, a question to the mod:
Mod: It never said if the mafia just know who the others are, or if they can talk out of thread. Does the town know either way if they can talk?
Do you still believe this? Effectively the SK has become the traditional mafia in this game, while the other mafia are just an anti-town mason group. Effectively we have hard deadlines on "days" as the SK kills once a week if we don't lynch.Mirth, post 99 wrote:But I don't know if I agree with you targeting MGM as the SK or trying to push a vote. As I said before, as this game is nightless and the mafia can't kill of their own volition, our only voting constraint is to minimize SK kills, but we don't necessarily have to lynch once a week. Just make sure that lynching takes place on specific days. Id rather be sure of something than mislynch, especially in this type of set up. If we get enough for a reasonable lynch, good. If not, we shouldn't push it.
Which do you think is worse: a mislynch or no lynch in a normal mafia game with only one killing faction?
In this game, do you think that a no lynch, allowing the SK to kill, is acceptable?
Didn't notice this the first time around, but I figure I should point this out to you:Mirth, post 109 wrote:What I don't like: Kinetic also voicing his suspicion of MGM. I called MGM out on the hunch thing 2 pages back. Nobody else commented. Then Hazel voted. And CKD and Kinetic seem to take this as a cue that its okay to voice their suspicions. MGM hasn't done anything particularly earth shattering (or worthy of note even) in the last page. Granted, I still think he is the most suspicious person here, of people whove actually said something. But that can obviously change.
I was very interested in MGM at the beginning of the game. As more things panned out, around the time I made the second post about MGM (post 106), I was still suspicious of MGM until I noticed HQ and CKD acting suspicious to me. At that point I started looking deeper into HQ/CKD, and felt HQ was by far the scummier of the two, so I voted for him (post 127).Kinetic, post 23, page 1 wrote:Think of it like this guys, we're deadlined forAug 19, 2007 10:52 am, If we come to an agreement before then that is fine, but we must come to an agreement by that time or we effectively no-lynch.
Vote:MGM
I'm of the opinion that the SK has posted already. MGM is just a hunch, but I think I'll place a vote on him since no one has.
Its 11 alive, 6 to lynch.
Originally I thought that HQ and CKD weren't on a team, and only one of the two were scum. CKD's reaction after my attack on HQ though set off alarms in my head as if he was trying to protect his scum buddy and bully me off.Kinetic, post 129 wrote:I don't think both HQ and CKD are scum, but I have a feeling that one of the two might be. I picked HQ because he felt more scummy to me.
Another thing in my re-read that I find very odd... Heather barely has any posts and then comes and posts this... add to that a late jump on the HQ bus, could be a scum buddy trying to defend then throwing under the bus...heatherlou wrote:Mgm is acting super scummy to me. I realize there have been lots of exchanges between HazzelQ and Mgm, but coming out of them the one thing that stands out to me is that Mgm up and changed their mind. The flip-flopping on the lynch v. no lynch is the most scummy for me. From the SK kill Mgm all you've been saying is how we need to get someone up there cause we're on a deadline. I just don't understand the sudden change in heart. I know Mirth mentioned her reasons for a no-lynch, were they that convincing to you?
But there again, I don't know what to think about the voting for someone, then killing them as the SK. I think that is so scummy that you wouldn't do it.
Very odd! In my opinion the CKD kill just now is throwing me into a loop of confusion...Mirth wrote:Oh! I remembered my point. If MGM is scum, wouldn't it be better for the SK to have killed MGM instead for the very reason of being rather suspicious, thus throwing the town in a state of a bit more confusion and possibly buying himself a better oppurtunity at winning (ie have more kills with which to make sure that he does not end up alive with enugh mafia members to majority vote a lynch that could kill him). Then again, I suppose it doesn't particularly matter to the SK whom he kills, as long as it confuses the town, because either way his only objective would be to stay hidden. (Also long as he doesnt leave himself with just 3 or 2 mafia members alive at the end of the game, he would win.)
No, I meant heatherlou voted for M4yhem, not that MGM voted heatherlou.Mirth wrote:169. Kinetic cites faulty notes. Thought MGM voted M4yhem after D3sisted, says "but it was really Heatherlou" says it was a mistake
(This is false. MGM voted CKD.)
This was your opinion of me after your whole re-read. Only 5 days have passed since this. I realize I have made scummy comments, and even scummy attacks (personally, I agree my play hasn't been stellar at all), but even so you don't think I'm lonescum, but teamscum. Now your opinion has flip-flopped, and you think I'm lonescum and not teamscum. Is there any specific reason, other than since HQ came up teamscum and you don't think I'm on a team with him and still trying to find me scummy?Mirth wrote:Kinetic - I definately do not like a few of his comments, especially about Hazzel splitting his posts. (By the way, Kinetic, you still haven't answered about that. Please do so.) I don't like his all out arguement with CKD (this could be WIFOM on my part, I'm aware of it.) I think he is possibly Mafia, but probably not the SK, unless he's breadcrumbing stuff.
Awesome attack on a lurker while lurking... priceless. The turn around by Heather reeks of scum bussing.heatherlou, post 265 wrote:vote: HazzelQFor mixing up games and generally acting really defensive at the beginning of the questioning. I don't think pointing out the mixing up makes it any less of a scummy move. It wouldn't have gotten by anyway, even if you hadn't pointed it out, especally twice.
Damn right I'm lurking, this game has been nothing but back and forth arguments and I think we just need to lynch cause we're all grasping at straws.
As for other scum, I have no concrete ideas
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My current impressions on who are the scum groups:
Mafia:
Raffles/Heatherlou
SK
Most likely: Stewie
Individual Players:
Mirth: Meh, for the most part I've been very OMGUSy with her the whol game, and most of that is my fault. You've been a little bit snarky, but my responses to such have been overly dramatic and generally wrong. I should have read your pbp when you first posted, but I saw it and pretty much skipped it the first time. I took some time this time and it seems like you had similar points/suspicions as I did, but I never really saw them in your everyday posts.
Raffles: However, you, I found extremely scummy in my re-read. I got a slimy feeling from you the first time, and your alternately lurking and bandwagoning reeked of scummyness to me.
Stewie: In my opinion, almost definitely not teamscum, but I would take bets at even odds that he could be the SK. He is highest on my list for that honor.
heatherlou: As I've pointed out above, she has presented a lurker feel, mashed with alternately defending HQ, then throwing him under the bus when his lynch seemed inevitable.
MGM: I know I've avoided him the most this game, but I'll say this now; I really don't find himthatscummy anymore... Odd how that works... I still think he is a possible, but not as high as when I first was looking at him early game. The main reason I was thrown off with the early SKs was because I was so suspicious of MGM and then when the SKs started going like I thought they might if he was SK, along with HQ and CKD attacking him... something sent up alarms in my head. Since then I've had time to reread, and I really don't know... If I had to guess, I would guess townie. If he was scum though, I don't think he's teamscum, at best I think he could be the SK.
Xyzzy: I hate that we have this much of a wildcard right now. He's high on my mafia list, but not high on my SK list. This may be WIFOMy, but to me the SK seems to be the same person, and doesn't look like he's replaced... Still could be scum though.
That's everyone.
I've said what I wanted to say. Any questions?Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'm notMirth wrote:
See what I don't like about this is how sure you are that you've been framed (yes, this is all going to be WIFOM, just like your entire post was).Kinetic wrote: Gah >> I've been framed and in my own eyes I think I have the best reason to do it......sureI've been framed >> That was more of a "Omg... This IS what I would have done..." moment. Really creeped me out to tell you the truth.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Actually, I addressed this slightly. Mirth just finds me generally scummy. Originally she didn't think I could be SK because the reason she originally found me scummy was because of my interactions with HQ and CKD... But again, those reasons turned out wrong:Raffles wrote:Why I disagree with the comment on Mirth: Mirth wrote that Kinetic is most likely scum if HazQ turns up town. Does that mean opposite is true when HQ turns up scum? I think not. Some craplogic there.
Mirth wrote:3. I still stand by my opinion that the SK's main motive is to hide and his kills would probably enable that.
This doesn't really make sense to me though. On the one hand you say you think the SK is trying to hide in plain sight (more fitting for players such as Stewie, or even Raffles), but then on the other you think I can't be teamscum anymore, but are very likely (enough to vote for me) the SK.Mirth wrote:4. My opinion on you changed based on Hazzel coming up scum. Because my original thought was it was either you and CKD or CKD and Hazzel. I was wrong on both counts and I don't think you and Hazzel are partners.
I submit to you: Am I trying to hide anything at all? I'm putting myself out there as much as possible, explaining what I can, the best I can. I personally helped lead the HQ lynch, and yes I'm going to keep noting that feather, because honestly if I would have just helped the town stagnate at this point, we might still be in the same place we were two weeks ago.
Personally I think that she needs to do at least a passing reread now. We have more information, much more, and we can start putting some things into context.
Also, my main "Turn around" point with you Mirth is that I'm looking at things from a different angle. This is day 2 now, which is a totally different game. In my opinion the three people that seem to be trying the most are You, MGM, and myself. This doesn't clear them completely, but it does go a long way in my book. All three provided a lot of information for Day 2, while the people I have on my scum list (heather, raff, stewie, and to a lesser extent xyz) are all players who glided and coasted through the day.
Truth be told, I do find Raffles very scummy, but right now, heatherlou is at the top of my list. Granted, its not my SK list... but it is also very possible she could be the SK. I find it much less likely that Raff can be the SK, I'm almost sure he's just normal team scum, but I'd like to see what heather has to say most. Personally, I think she's only teamscum as well, but she is scummier in my book, and the possibility of being SK exists as well.
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I'm not looking at it in the way you are looking at it at all. This is what I see:Raffles wrote:No lynch: E>1/2 per week
Scum lynch end-week: E>1/2 per week
Scum lynch mid-week: E> 1 per week
Townie lynch end-week: E> 3/2 per week
Townie lynch mid-week: E> 2 per week
When we lynch, almost no matter who we lynch, we gain information. Lots of it. Lynching scum is better, much better, but I was advocating the HQ lynch since week 1. Since then, instead of lynching, we've stagnated. For each no lynch, especially now, we give the SK time to eliminate one more person.
We're almost at LyLo now. Not quite, mainly because of the way the set up is, but we're teetering on the edge.
Raffles: Let me ask you this- Which is worse right now? A townie lynch, or no lynch? 7 alive. 2 mafia, 1 SK, 4 townies.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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heatherlou wrote:I am not the most serious lurker here. I turned my vote on HQ because I thought he was scum, and he was. I don't think that's putting him under a bus as a scum buddy. What that is to me is I had a little doubt towards HQ so I decided to withhold my vote. Mgm called me out on it, and I wanted a lynch, so I voted him.
So, let me get this straight:
First, you just off-hand say lurking isn't scummy, because there are people lurking more than you.
So just because you say you didn't bus him, you didn't? I don't believe it.
A little doubt? Please, you were completely on HQ's side, and then when things began to turn you did a little dance, and all of a sudden voted for him. Exactly like you say though, MGM called you on it, and you got scared, so you voted.
Ha, so now you try and turn my suspicions back on me? Please. The entire day I found both CKD and HQ scummy. I explained so completely. If I was teamscum with HQ, wouldn't it have made more sense for me to have initially voted CKD? I kept on HQ, and then when things started rolling on HQ, the way CKD reacted really caused alarms to go off in my head. I felt he was even scummier than HQ at that point. So I wanted to see if we could pressure him. I admit, I was wrong about him, but look at the posts. CKD WAS acting scummy as hell, and I wasn't the only one who thought so.heatherlou wrote:Kinetic, you were ready to vote HQ to lynch him, then at the last minute you try and turn the lynch around to CKD. When you find you can't get a good bandwagon started, you fly back to HQ, then just kill CKD as the SK. That is scummy in my book.
And I'm surprised at how everyone all of a sudden thinks I'm the SK, yesterday everyone thought I was scummy because they thought I was teamscum with CKD... now that that has been proven false everyone is scrambling to find some way I could still be scummy.
I think anyone jumping on me thinking I'm the SK is scummy. Heather, I'm even more convinced now that you are scum. I'm still not sure, mafia or SK, but I'm leaning toward mafia now.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Raffles:
I think what MGM is saying is this-
Lynching when there are 6 people left, and lynching when there are 7 are fundamentally the same. Execpt, if we mislynch with 6 people left, we are even WORSE off than if we mislynch with 7.
Look at this like a normal game: We're effectively at LYLO right now. Hoping that the SK kills a mafia with no lynch is very useless. We need to do the scum hunting ourselves. Its true, if we lynch a townie and the SK also kills a townie, we're in an ugly situation, but honestly, the likeliness of that is low enough where it shouldn't paralyze you from voting (which it hasn't -.-)
I'm sorry, your words and your actions don't line up. You're attacking me for reasons that don't make sense any longer, and still convinced I'm scum... I think you're using me as a target of opportunity, which is extremely scummy.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Bleh...
Just lost a long post >><<
Basically it boils down to this:
First: Heather, who was lurking all day day one, all of a sudden, after I presented a rather good case against her, is back with a vengeance. Her defense? OMGUS on a major scale...
Anyone who doesn't find that really suspicious and really suspect is blind.
Second: Everything that people have said they find scummy about me they have found scummy because they think I was mafia. The interactions day 1 between CKD/HQ, the erratic vote patterns (which I contend were not, but w/e). But when the alignments of HQ/CKD came up, a lot of people backed off that they though I was mafia.
But instead, they took these suspicions, and they dropped them on "Well he's scummy, so if he isn't mafia then he must be.... SK?".
That doesn't make ANY sense to me. SKscum and MAfiascum play extremely differently in my book. I'm not saying I can't be SK scum because I'm not lurking, or trying to say that a SK has to play a certain way.
What I am saying is there is no justification for saying, "Well I thought there was a high likelihood of him being mafia and a low likelihood of him being the SK, but when recent events showed that was highly unlikely, to justify my suspicions on him, he must be the SK."
I implore everyone, re-read Day 1. The town will LOSE if we do not use ALL the information we have available to us. The people who are just blindly voting today without doing their research are scummy as hell! Mainly because it seems to me they have their minds made up and are now, post-voting, trying to justify their suspicions.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Mirth, but that is what I am wondering still... If you originally found the arguments suspicious because you thought it was ingenuous, how can you so quickly after finding the argument genuine still find it suspicious? It seems to me this is a case of false justification. You are trying to justify your suspicions, but those suspicions don't make sense for the reason you originally made them, so you are trying to justify them instead of looking at the much more likely case: They are just not correct at this time...
I'm not trying to team up on you with MGM, and I realize this might look like that, but despite all this I still feel like you're not part of the scum group right now. And because of that I want you to help us find the real scum groups.
I mean, for most of the time you found your opinions and mine to be in line, that is why I'm so confused why during your reread this time you didn't feel that way again.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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It has been my opinion the entire game that we should not have wasted our time with all these no lynches. We gained no valuable information and the SK was just slowly biding his time, killing off inactive players and giving us NO information what so ever about his kills.
So when the town finally woke up I was there to push. I tagged HQ and CKD as my most suspicious people. Well guess what, HQ WAS scum and CKD WAS very suspicious. The SK killing him is also significant. The SK is no longer targeting inactive players and actually gave us a kill we can read into.
And the reason I'm so miffed is because in every game I have read with a SK in it, the SK was never lynched because people though he was the SK. Its easy for the SK to hide in a crowd because they can easily say "I'm not the most suspicious person, I'm only the second most, lynch the person who is most suspicious first". I have found the SK is never who you think it is, and since you have virtually cleared me of being mafia that means you only have a 1/7 chance of being right here. I personally much prefer the 3/7 chance of lynching someone who has a good chance of being the SK or Mafia, and that is what I think heather could be.
The main problem with your argument that I see is if you are wrong and I'm not the SK, and you're right and I'm not mafia, then we are hosed. You kill a townie and then you're hoping the SK hits a mafia.
I will say it again. Serial Killer, if I am inevitably lynched, you can gather from what is said here that I have a VERY low chance of being mafia. Target Heatherlou. I'm pretty sure she is mafia. I caught HQ, and I'm pretty sure I caught Heather. The fact that she has gone back to lurking AGAIN after failing to defend herself the first time is throwing even MORE credence to my theory. This is in your best interest to kill mafia, even if it also pushes forward a possible town win.
Mirth: By your attacks I feel like you are most likely not the SK. If you were the SK then there is no way you would push your attack on me as such. You would realize that I am most likely not mafia and not waste your time with this attack. As the SK you need to lynch mafia.
Now as a townie, I don't care if I get the mafia or the SK, but I want to lynch someone who I think has the best chance of being one or both. Heather is the play today, and I will argue that point until I'm blue. Lynch me, go ahead, but after I'm dead, look back at my arguments. You should be able to find the last remaining mafia and the SK by who the SK kills tonight.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I know MGM... >> I'm trying, but the only people here are you me and Mirth. Raffles and heather's disappearance greatly disturbs me. I think the three of us need to decide between those two, pick one, triple vote them, and hope someone comes back in time to hammer hem.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'd be more willing to go after xyzzy after heather. I thought I laid a decent case, but I'll be honest, I was only about 50% sure. After her defense, I'm like 85% sure now, so I would prefer her lynch more than anyone.
If I had to choose a second person, I would say Raffles is the second highest person on my list.
People who I don't think are the SK:
Mirth
People who I don't think are mafia:
MGM
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I want to put some pressure on Xyzzy too, but I'm just unsure enough about mirth and raffles being a possible scum pair that I don't want to vote right this second. Last thing we need is them two quick voting before we at least hear from xyz. I know that isn't likely at this case, since we're not technically in LYLO, but it still bothers me a bit.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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