481 - Speed 1: Romeo and Juliet Mafia - Game Over!

[logicticus]

BA,

How serious are you being right now?

have you really seen a correlation between people saying good luck and them turning out scum?

[logicticus]

you know, the more i look at it and think about it, saying "good luck" really is a strange thing to do

[logicticus]

in the other two games that you have played on this site, you never said good luck when you joined

[logicticus]

its true, "good luck" is usually something you would say to an opponent.

[logicticus]

logicticus, In a game where no one knows who is on their team, everyone could be your opponent.

hmm, somewhat valid point. although if you are scum you know exactly who is on your team. and then you would be wishing good luck to your opponents who are the majority of the rest of the players


and i havent jumped on any bandwagon. do you see me voting for you right now? im just getting more information

[logicticus]

so lurk?

how can you possibly gather information without asking questions?

[logicticus]

my final points regarding discussion:

1) theres more than one way to gather information
2) you have your way, i have my way

[logicticus]

Sorry, I don't believe in opinions or each person's own way.

Thats pretty facist of you.

[logicticus]

yes sir

[logicticus]

i think you need to work on your critical reading skills

i didnt say i have my opinion and you have yours.

i said i have my way and you have yours in reference to the topic at hand, gathering information.

you seem to believe only questions can gather information, i disagree.

[logicticus]

my final points regarding discussion:

1) theres more than one way to gather information
2) you have your way, i have my way

Ah, you seem to be applying the transitive property as well as the hand in your avatar!

X=good strategy!
x=strategy
y=strategy
y=your strategy
x=y=good strategy!
NO

Stop applying the transitive property to set elements. It doesn't work. And you fail.

i hope you were drunk when you wrote that.

[logicticus]

i didnt say i have my opinion and you have yours.

you have your way, i have my way

So, now we have to ask, how similar is "way" to "opinion"?

are you guys kidding me? you are playing semanties

"way" as in method, as in method for gathering information.

Which was what was being talked about.

[logicticus]

BA: You voted me for saying good luck, you are encouraging a bandwagon with your scum partner Dragon Phoenix. Got it, your actions are dully noted.

Good job on identifying the scum, the next step is to actually vote for them.

It's an obvious argument and if you don't get it you're stupid. (Okay, not stupid, but, you know.)

His argument is equivilant to the argument that "God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind, hence, God is Ray Charles."

He's saying that since some scum-hunting methods are good, and that all scum hunting methods are scum hunting methods, his MUST be good. I was merely putting it in terms of set theory, where if:

A is a member of set B and
A is a member of set C
set B is not necessarily the same set as set C.

That's the crap logic he was using, and I believe that's 3 ways I've explained it now. If you don't understand now, than you really are stupid.

Alright, I get what you are saying.

I guess I was just confused because you are completely wrong and I dont think you have been reading the posts correctly.

[logicticus]

I honestly think logic is making quite the case for himself, and while it may be slightly OMGUS of me, I think that your baseless attack on me is very scummy. At best its a hunch and you're comfortable with a quick mislynch. Like I said, your blatant disregard for the interests of the town is noted.

Dude, you arent helping your case. I was just pointing out that while you are calling BA and DP the scum, you are still voting me.

And then in your next post you are trying to convince BA, the same BA you think is scum, to join a wagon against me...

It just looks really scummy

[logicticus]

just because you cant comprehend what i am saying doesnt mean i am being illogical

[logicticus]

actually forget that

you dont understand my basic ideas

such as there is more than one way to gather information

why dont you tell me when ive been illogical

[logicticus]

I can gather information by talking to a donkey in the middle of the Arizona Desert. I can get a lot of great information too. However just because its a way of gathering information doesn't mean its correct, will gain anything useful, or generally helpful to the TOWN.

Well, I find it very audacious of you to:

1) claim that there is only one way to gather information
2) that you have any idea how i gather information

I have never said how I gather, I just said I do things other than answer questions.

You are making a whole lot of assumptions and guesses about how I play and in doing that you have been overfocusing on me.

[logicticus]

If either of you have gained any information from this baseless argument (okay, argument based on WIFOM, but, you know...), PLEASE SAY SO NOW! Right now you're both just flining monkey crap at each other, which isn't productive to our DEADLINED TOWN.

Well, I think most of what you have to say is wrong as well.

But as far as my argument with kinetic goes, i dont really think he is scum, just someone who thinks more than they really do.

I will disprove everything he has said tomorrow.

[logicticus]

I can gather information by talking to a donkey in the middle of the Arizona Desert. I can get a lot of great information too. However just because its a way of gathering information doesn't mean its correct, will gain anything useful, or generally helpful to the TOWN.

Well, I find it very audacious of you to:

1) claim that there is only one way to gather information

Ummm, when did I say that?

Granted, you never straight out said it, but in post 41 you quoted some posts of mine and asked where the question mark is. This seems to be implying if its not a question, its not a way to gather information, hence only one way to do it.

2) that you have any idea how i gather information

And I have never said I knew 'how' you gather information, only that what you have been doing so far is distracting and anti-town.

No, I believe what I did was patronize you because your way is wrong,

Sheesh, you admit you dont know how I am gathering information, but you are just certain that I am wrong. And you did this in the same post. How can you possibly be certain that what I am doing is wrong if you have no idea what I am doing?

I have never said how I gather, I just said I do things other than answer questions.

You are making a whole lot of assumptions and guesses about how I play and in doing that you have been overfocusing on me.

Exactly, you are evasive, never answer direct questions when asked, create posts that are useless and often against the towns interests, and overall are not helping the town in anyway. Sounds like I understand you perfectly...

You have no idea.

[logicticus]

I will fullly admit I was wrong and for some reason I never reread that part to realize where you were coming from. You werent trying to imply that you can only get info from asking questions, it was in response to me. So I was wrong there, but I ascertain that you have no idea how I play this game and just because you dont see anything day 1 doesnt mean you wont ever.

And if I am flying under the radar, thats new. I am doing everything but flying under the radar.

If I had information that I had gathered, for some reason I doubt you would be convinced not to vote for me. You will be on my ass until one of us dies, so I dont feel the need to submit to your demands.

[logicticus]

And someone who isn't on my wagon but would have been if I didn't kick his ass before he tried.

Logicticus: SCUMSCUMSCUMDIESCUMDIE 10/10

Please.

[logicticus]

I fully support a kravhen lynch.

I dont like how with 40 minutes left before he was modkilled, he suddenly checked in. It seems to me he was lurking then and knew what was going on.

Secondly, he did the self vote early on which can be a scumtell.

vote kravhen

[logicticus]

i dunno, its really hard to tell at this point. hes been somewhat active since the near mod kill, but its early yet.

[logicticus]

For what it's worth, I always put a full analysis on the remaining players out there when I'm scum and it looks like I'm the inevitable lynch. Doesn't keep me from dying, but I can taylor my comments in such a way as to throw people off the scent of who my scumbuddies are based on the misinformation I put forward. So unlike BA, I see it as a null-tell.

BA, can you confirm - is it simply the last-minute posting of an analysis of the players on his wagon that you consider to be enough to stop his lynch today or is there more to it than that?

Id like to be answered as well. I dont find it inherently protown to do a rundown at the end with suspicions.

[logicticus]

Is it also possible that Kinetic was the Traitor? Or would that have been revealed in the death scene?

No. The faction of the traitor is Capulet, therefore Kinetic is townie, cop, or vigi.

it says the traitor will come up montague even though he wins with the capulets

[logicticus]

for all we know the traitor is gone

we wont know until the other scum is gone, then if its game over, we took them out, otherwise we need to keep the hunt on...

[logicticus]

oh yeah, thats right, i suppose i can read win conditions...

[logicticus]

I need to do a further read through myself, but if i had to pick someone right now it would be xyzzy.

His argument yesterday that had no bearing really sticks with me (which is funny because its pretty much the reason you seem to be voting me).

But, I will hold off my vote for now.

[logicticus]

Furthermore, when you read his posts it seems as if he's posting for the sake of posting (posting to not get modkilled).

I think we are all guilty of this sometimes (or maybe it's just me).
I don't think it's a scum-tell.

seriously. you cant tell me that you havent at least once just posted to follow through with the requirements.


also, xyzzy, you seemed to attack mert with the whole wifom argument after he voted you, which i think is unnecessary and scummy.

he wasnt the only person to bring up the questionable fact that you didnt read the open setup.

i also didnt like your first post after the night kills were revealed. even though you clarified it, when i first read it, it made me think that you wanted to see what ssf did to get killed and avoid it.

he also came on the kinetic bandwagon after the tipping point. that is, the point in which it seemed pretty much inevitable (especially given time restraints) that he would be lynched.

then today, he votes for me, the person who had the most attention after kinetic on day one. so, i think he saw me as a safe place to throw a vote and just wanted to do it first to make him look less scummy.

vote xyzzy

[logicticus]

just because he does something scummy doesnt mean i think they are scum

i didnt think kinetic was scum so i never voted for him

[logicticus]

Two points:

1) that post reeks of desperation
2) it is impossible to lose with a mislynch right now, you are are just acting like a republican and trying to scare people. even with a mislynch, a scum kill and a missed vig kill it leaves us with 3 people.

worst case is, traitor, scum, townie. this is not an auto loss. the scum has no idea who the traitor is (or even if the traitor is still alive). a smart townie will claim they are the traitor (almost certain now that i mentioned it) and the actual traitor will claim the same and they will vote for each other and we will be down to the unusual circumstance that the scum will have to determine who is the actual traitor for the win.

so, that post makes me feel even better about my vote.

[logicticus]

upon further reflection, if you are a townie and its down to the final three, it would be unwise to claim traitor.

this is because odds dictate that the traitor is likely been killed and by claiming traitor you are just encouraging the other townie to vote for you adn the scum to hammer.

but this just opens up a big can of WIFOM.

my whole point was that we are not in as dire as a situation as xyzzy wants you to believe.

[logicticus]

i feel DP could be getting a bit of a pass.

as far as posts with 0 content, he has quite a few.

I think the difference is, his posts are clearly labeled as being contentless, whereas other people are judging posts to see if they are contentless, if that makes sense.


anyway, times a ticking. we only have a couple RL days left before we go to night and a no lynch simply isnt a good option.

[logicticus]

well, it looks like jimmy r will be modkilled, im pretty sure he was done and didnt get to read the final ruling....that will bring it to 4

[logicticus]

thats for that xyzzy

go back to your hole

[logicticus]

it means i will see you in 24 hours when you can encourage the town to lynch me again.

why no calling anyone else out? i was the most recent poster besides you

[logicticus]

well, kill me,

its unfortunate we are looking at 4 of 12 modkills....tough for the town to win with that shit going on,

while i think xyzzy is scummy, its more likely he is just a bad player.

someone anaylze DPs posts. He has gotten too much of a free ride the whole game without any serious inspection.


ill see all you guys in the post game comments

[logicticus]

alright then.

when i come up montague and when its game over and revealed i was not the traitor, i want you to admit that your scumdar sucks.

because seem to be so certain you are right, i am so looking forward to make fun of your terrible play when its revealed you clearly have no idea what you are doing. I mean, you already helped lynch someone else who wasnt scum,why not another right?

[logicticus]

someone anaylze DPs posts. He has gotten too much of a free ride the whole game without any serious inspection.

Do you have anything to say yourself about DP? After a reread, I didn't find him saying anything suspicious.

I dont have anything concrete. Hes squeeky clean. Its more just a gut feeling.

[logicticus]

No, if you're town, it'll be your fault for being scummy.

Remind me next time we play in a game to lynch you early since your place just hurts the town in the long run.

[logicticus]

No, if you're town, it'll be your fault for being scummy.

Remind me next time we play in a game to lynch you early since your play just hurts the town in the long run.

[logicticus]

once again, i cant wait until the postgame part of this when i make fun of your ass for being such a worthless player

[logicticus]

clearly.

[logicticus]

xyzzy,

if i died and somehow came up townie, who would you suspect at that point to be scum?

[logicticus]

youve made 13 posts since your last one here....think you can get aroudn to answering my question?

[logicticus]

once again you have posted like 10 times without answering questions in this thread...

[logicticus]

Also, note that if the traitor was alive, the game would be over (ie: the town could not achieve a lynch, therefore the game would go into night with no lynch, the mafia would kill again... you get the picture). Therefore, there's three town players and one scum left.

This isnt true simply because the scum doesnt know who the traitor is, so they could concievably vote for the traitor and lynch him without knowing it.

Terrible turn of events, I was pretty sure that xyzzy was scum towards the end when he ignored this thread as some heat was being applied to him...

But I do agree a no lynch is probably the best option right now.

I would also like to ask the other (hopefully) two townies to please reread the thread especially as it pertains to me. I think the words scummy and logicticus have been linked together a bit unfairly, so I just want to make sure you are clear why you are voting for me (if it turns out that way) tomorrow.

[logicticus]

mert, can you tell me who you suspect more between the other two.

[logicticus]

Well, i had stewie worked out, but not until it was too late.

Im surprised you killed me n3, i felt i was a pretty good target to paint as the last scum.

Did you know that mert was the traitor?

I picked ssf because in the beginning he kept posting like every 23 hours which is something i felt someone who wanted to lurk would do without getting busted.

[logicticus]

yeah in the future there needs to be some way to determine who will actually be active the whole time...

[logicticus]

makes sense.

great job by mert, i would have never guessed you were the traitor.

[logicticus]

wow, great job on that prediction DP

what gave it to ya

[logicticus]

oops, that sounded way more sarcastic than i meant it to