Mini 1568: Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure (over)

[SleepyKrew]

Oh apparently I can't insult people
So instead: hi I'm doing the reading thing

[SleepyKrew]

Will read and talk more thoroughly after sleep.
VOTE: B_E
TSO and Riptide also feel like scum

@Riptide
Specifically @dice
What is different between the Elyse case HS posted in thread and in hydra chat?

[SleepyKrew]

Ignore that question

[SleepyKrew]

@Riptide
@HS
Why didn't you make your Elyse case during the Day?

[SleepyKrew]

I addressed it to HS for a reason...
But w/e
Señores Riptide:
What was dice's read on Elyse before the case? How strong?
What was doce's read on Elyse after the case? How strong?
Apologies if you've answered these already. If you have, please still respond with new words instead of just quoting old stuff. Thanks

[SleepyKrew]

HS told me he's going not going to be posting all too much due to having other games.

Unacceptable

Do B_E, TSO and Riptide feel like partners to you or do you just think there's scum somewhere in there?

I'm not considering partners yet.



So B_E is still alive
Are you guys gonna make me write up a case?

[SleepyKrew]

Im sorry, I might not be around for another day, something came up.

just gonna point out he's been active in MishMash and on Skype

the activity level in this game is atrocious

[SleepyKrew]

I'd like to point out I'm in a hospital and really don't feel like taking part in a game right now.

Makes sense. My apologies. Hope you get better soon

[SleepyKrew]

I'd like to see your case on BE

HOW CAN CASES BE REAL IF OUR EYES AREN'T REAL
(I'll do it later tonight)

[SleepyKrew]

I'm currently comfortable calling tool town based on differences between this and Micro 318.

Single game meta read? Really?

[SleepyKrew]

I believe you honestly didn't realize you hammered.
But your play afterwards is not town

[SleepyKrew]

I believe you honestly didn't realize you hammered.
But your play afterwards is not town

Replace you with he
I guess I should do an actual thing with quotes and stuff

[SleepyKrew]

Putting on my flip-flops

UNVOTE: VOTE: cho

Terrible vote
Not that voting Cho is itself bad. But the way he did it. Ugh

Didn't see the end of last page. I'll respond to Rubicon whenever I get back online. Busy day.

Oh, and I'm also debating whether or not I should vote Riptide. Partially because I'm kind of tired of their misrepresentative attacks on me, partially because it's the biggest wagon besides mine. Any thoughts? Would you call me out as scummy for being survivalistic, or are Town not allowed to want to avoid guaranteed mislynches?

Bye.

BRILLIANT EXPLANATION
(why is he explaining

after

the vote anyway?)

That'll teach me to be checking VCs!

so forced

Damn

within one minute of the previous post
the force is strong with this one

I'm town pinky promise

(DISCLAIMER: THE CORRECT PLAY IS PROBABLY TO LYNCH ME)

Proper town attitude would be "I fucked up. I'll try to do what I can before I'm lynched."

she made some really bad posts. See 254.

I have removed his "case" from this quote to save space

My case on riptide.

Riptide attacked cho without voting her until other people had.

Another masterpiece from B_E cases TM

Another masterpiece indeed. Looks like someone trying to make some noise and hoping nobody hears what they're actually saying

Oh this is your elyse case

All the links are fucked up

I don't think he ever explained the underlined part

meh. I still don't see a better wagon.

Dunham wagon is shit. (1)

B_E wagon is shit

. You'd think I'd have more reads in 17 pages, but (2)

I'm not really invested in this game.

1. Again, not how town that knows they should die would play. They'd be trying to be as useful as possible.
2. Bullshit. He was actually pushing Riptide until the heat on himself got turned up.

Hi guys.

I get that my quick hammering was bad, but seriously.

As scum, would I do that?

[SleepyKrew]

Not convinced.

Care to contribute anything?

[SleepyKrew]

Tool, I honestly don't see either your case or SK's. They both seem more like a summary of his play than a case why he is scum.

SK, what's up

His play is the reason he is scum

Well we're five days to deadline and you're not doing anything besides sitting on your vote.

[SleepyKrew]

A townie in his situation should be trying to make the most of what little time he probably has left.

The problem isn't that. The problem is that you aren't doing anything with the vote or trying to get anyone else to do anything either.

[SleepyKrew]

His play makes perfect sense for panicking scum.

Would you be content with an NL?

[SleepyKrew]

SK, I don't see any "panic" in Burning's play. Hell, the post about lynching him being the right play looks calm and accepting. Now that doesn't mean he's town, but I definitely don't read him as panicky. And of course I'm not ok with no lynch. If we were an hour from deadline, Burning was at L-1, and no other lynch was happening, I'd hammer in a heartbeat. I just don't buy that he's scum. And I know I could be wrong, which is why I'd deadline hammer, but I don't see the case at all. And it's getting hard to judge his posts because I'm doing it with the bias that there's already a case on him that I don't agree with.

He's gotten more and more lurky as the pressure has gotten more real. He went from "I'm probably the right lynch" to "this wagon on me is shit I'm not invested in this game"
Satisfied with your answers though. Completely unrelated time: when's the baby due?


BPC take a stance please
(how's your step-dad?)

[SleepyKrew]

I'm not a fan of SleepyKrew analysis of B_E, it feels forced and like he's got a bit of confirmation bias going on.

That's what happens when you ISO someone specifically looking for reasons why they are scum.

Oh is that what I was supposed to do? I just wanted to find an excuse to incorporate those pictures

YAY ACTIVITY

[SleepyKrew]

I'm gonna take the stance of I think there's a better lynch than B_E and I'm gonna stick with right where I am.

Reiterate case on Dun/me please?

[SleepyKrew]

I also think you're minor attack on me last page felt opportunistic and scummy, do you really think scum would say that they won't be posting then go and chit chat away elsewhere? Where's the scum motivation there?

I've seen it before. I dropped it once you gave a legit reason.

Pointing out a low activity level, seems out of place when there are so many other things for you to comment on, scum looking for something to say I think.

This would work except for I'm saying lots of other stuff too

[SleepyKrew]

First T S O's post, then claim, please, not the other way round.

Why?

[SleepyKrew]

Will read and talk more thoroughly after sleep.
VOTE: B_E
TSO and Riptide also feel like scum

@Riptide
Specifically @dice
What is different between the Elyse case HS posted in thread and in hydra chat?

BPC this is my second post. I'd already developed my read on B_E. I was just too lazy to actually make a post with all of it until now. But concrete opinion right out the gate for me.

For one of your first concrete opinions to be the low activity one, I just found it off.

If you say you're not going to be posting here and I see you active elsewhere before you give a reason, I'm going to call you out on it.

Which reminds me: iirc B_E's been pretty active on-site during his current scumlurk but I'll check
If I don't respond to this post then that means I remembered correctly

[SleepyKrew]

My case on someone felt like I was tunneling on that person?
...
???

Because I saw something suspicious, and like I said, if I see that I'm gonna call it out. How long I'd been in the game is irrelevant.

[SleepyKrew]

Are you seriously accusing me of tunneling B_E while also pointing out your activity and questioning Riptide?

[SleepyKrew]

You seem to be thinking I did:
1. Determined B_E was scum/voted him
2. Read the game
3. Thought of why he was scum
4. Wrote the case

What actually happened:
1. Read the game
2. Thought he was scummy and looked deeper into it
3. Determined he's scum/voted him
4. Wrote the case
5. Had some fried chicken and mashed potatoes

You seem to be tunneling on me? Is that confirmation bias? Or is what you're doing not tunneling?


Also

B_E just feels like lynch bait to me, an easy lynch without much thought because he's done basically nothing except for a dumb ass quick hammer. I think even my own scum read on him might be more based on that he's an easy lynch target and someone who isn't helpful rather than scummy.

@TSO: I agree that scum would normally give reasoning, where someone giving no reason feels more town, but dunham didn't seem to give a shit either. I think his no reasoning might just be null.

Okay 460 did feel kinda scummy (passive aggressive?).

I'm not a fan of SleepyKrew analysis of B_E, it feels forced and like he's got a bit of confirmation bias going on.

How much time does it take to make a waffle? 4 minutes

[SleepyKrew]

If my case is so bad then go ahead and dismantle it please

[SleepyKrew]

Spoiler: Speaking of cases that are crap

Burning_Earth- Why the third vote on Egg on pg1?

@Cho - So let me get this straight. You made those three unlynchables because of their RVS votes?

- Dice

So you see them as unlynchable, but not as concrete town?

I'm bad at this.

What about there RVS votes make you think they should not be lynched today?

- dice

I'm not really good with hydras yet. :p

I'm getting too many townreads. Need to talk it over with HS.

My case on riptide.

Riptide attacked cho without voting her until other people had.

Another masterpiece from B_E cases TM

[SleepyKrew]

Let's see if this works
BPC pretend you're me
Okay so just take the parts of my case you agree with
Discard the parts that can be explained by his personality/playstyle
Assume you had never played with him before, so you weren't aware of personality/playstyle/dumbassery
(also remember that scum can be just as dumb and can even use something like this to their advantage)
Huh can't agree with BPC'S strongest scumread because that'd be yourself
And now you know my thinking
And if you still don't
Then I'm done with this debate (unless it is to clarify on something said here bc I'm sleep-deprived)

[SleepyKrew]

Why have you not claimed

[SleepyKrew]

Of note: Egg is the only player to not have expressed a scumread on Burning
Though BPC's is waffley syrupy goodness

[SleepyKrew]

Of note: Egg is the only player to not have expressed a scumread on Burning
Though BPC's is waffley syrupy goodness

Note: logical fallacy

Claim: VT

What's the fallacy and what's your rolename

[SleepyKrew]

Fallacy: popularity doesn't mean correctness

Role name: uh, it's in the OP, so don't know what tell you're trying to extract from me here. Average Anybody.

I wasn't implying anything. I was stating facts for my own potential future use as well as that of anyone else.

So then why didn't you say that at first?
But no you didn't do what I was hoping you'd do
Oh well

[SleepyKrew]

So, what was the purpose of asking me to state my role name again?

Because you hadn't stated it in the first place

Also, what was I hoping for you to do? I'm quite interested, as you are apparently a master of the subconscious mind.

My goal was to get you to mix the two of us up.
Mission Accomplished
SleepyKrew out
peace love and hammers

[SleepyKrew]

Uh, what?

Can I help you?

[SleepyKrew]

(or are you "what"ing at B_E?)

[SleepyKrew]

Reread the question on the second line of 537

[SleepyKrew]

Reread the question on the second line of 537

Ah, okay, so that doesn't really matter, does it?

No most of my interaction with B_E there ended up just being for my own entertainment

I could be mistaken but this alliteration game is not the first N ran with this theme, hence the title. Why not look to see if he used the sample role PM as an actual role before. If he hasn't, hammer it like your Thor. If he has, perhaps further discussion is needed and then we hammer anyway.

what

image saved thank

you

[SleepyKrew]

To me is sounds like SK is scum going after an easy lynch with halfassed reads or scum bussing their partner because their partner is an easy lynch and good for town cred.

Yeah

I'm

the one confirmation-biasing -_-

The inherent laziness coming from him feels like scum being at a loss for posting real opinions, and results in the obnoxious but not saying anything posts.

But you just said that that was him being himself



BPC are you Belgian?

[SleepyKrew]

I'm much more interested in you addressing the first part of 557 aka the only part you didn't address

And you're definitely Belgian because you're such a wafflemaster

[SleepyKrew]

Is there much to say about the first part? I mean, I have my opinion on the matter, but I doubt this is gonna change the course of today.

Yes there is plenty to say like
"oh holy shit maybe it turns out I'm the one conf-biasing not SleepyKrew
seeing as I, BelgianChemist, just did the literal definition of conf-biasing"
Your continued resistance is noted
It's going in my

notes

[SleepyKrew]

resistance is the wrong word
obtuseness?

[SleepyKrew]

Oh been forgetting to ask this

Elyse has died night 1.
She was

an Auxiliary Aid

, Jack of All Trades, aligned with

the Angels

.

You are

an Auxiliary Aid

(a Jack of All Trades)

.
Each night, you may use one of the following abilities. You may use each one only once and cannot use more than one per night.

• Accredited Anatomy Analyst
  (Doctor)
  : Protect one other player from one kill that night.
  
• Au pair
  (Babysitter)
  : Protect one other player from kills that night. However, if you are killed, both of you will unstoppably die.
  
• Accident Aversion
  (Rolestopper)
  : Cancel all actions targeting one other player during that night.

@mod
Would Accident Aversion block a factional kill?

[SleepyKrew]

Was that just curiosity or did you think it might be relevant?

Curiosity though it certainly could be relevant in the future

BPC the dancing Belgian
When he's not waffling, he's dancing around points!
Do I think that makes him scummy?
No clue

[SleepyKrew]

uh, do you think BPC is scum?

Because if you don't... wut?

Do I think that makes him scummy?
No clue

I'm not bothering developing a read because why do it now?

[SleepyKrew]

Why bother doing it immediately before a lynch and subsequent night

[SleepyKrew]

yup, that was pretty much the right move from day start

If you want to lynch B_E for the hammer, you're doing it wrong

Man, it feels like B_E is buddying up to me hard. This is obvi going no where and I think everyone's said their piece, so here goes!

VOTE: B_E

[SleepyKrew]

VOTE: tool
Reread his interaction with Jargonaut D2.
I can go into more detail after school.

[SleepyKrew]

okay so tool and Jargonaut were arguing about Jargo's TSO unvote and whatnot
Important stuff starts here:

The reason I said your scenario is convoluted is because there doesn't seem to be scum motivation for me to do the things you are saying I did.

I've noted the scum motivation several times now.

This is a very odd thing to say. Up until this post, you hadn't noted any scum motivation, so you responding to me with this makes it seem like you're trying to make my arguments look redundant when they aren't.

Lol this should be fun. Let's quote all the times I've listed the possible scum motivations:

Spoiler: All the times I've given possible scum motivations for Jargonaut's actions

It almost seems like Jargonaut was waiting for an excuse to unvote TSO so she could go hop on a more viable wagon (that post was made when Riptide was at L-3 and Cho was at L-2.

I still find it generally suspicious for a player to cave the way you did. It feels like it's not genuine play, and town play with genuine-ness.

No, because scum have no genuine town motivation behind voting for somebody. So it would make sense for scum to want to vote for somebody else but not be sure who.

The core of my argument is this. These behaviors:

-Retracting the biggest part of your argument for scumreading someone
-Declaring that they are still your biggest suspect
-Keeping your vote on them anyway

Seem scummy to me because they contradict each other and therefore suggest that your motives aren't genuine.

Maybe you hadn't made up your mind as to which wagon you wanted to get on. Maybe you only felt pressure to unvote and you didn't feel so much pressure to hop on a different wagon. Maybe Riptide was your partner, so you didn't want to vote for them, but you also couldn't drum up a convincing enough case on Cho in time to hop on the wagon before it hit L-1.

The reason I said your scenario is convoluted is because there doesn't seem to be scum motivation for me to do the things you are saying I did.

I've noted the scum motivation several times now.

This is a very odd thing to say.

Up until this post

, you hadn't noted any scum motivation, so you responding to me with this makes it seem like you're trying to make my arguments look redundant when they aren't.

Lol this should be fun. Let's quote all the times I've listed the possible scum motivations:
~~snip~~

Maybe you hadn't made up your mind as to which wagon you wanted to get on. Maybe you only felt pressure to unvote and you didn't feel so much pressure to hop on a different wagon. Maybe Riptide was your partner, so you didn't want to vote for them, but you also couldn't drum up a convincing enough case on Cho in time to hop on the wagon before it hit L-1.

I'm done with this stupid back and forth. The fact that you quoted your post 402 in response to my claim that you hadn't provided scum motivation

before

402 means that you are doing one of three things:
1. Not reading what you're arguing against
2. Being actually bad at logic/reasoning
3. Purposefully making poor arguments

I'm going to step back and reread this whole conversation to see what the likelihood of 3 being the case is. I'm not sure if it's just frustration with your seeming obtuseness, but it feels quite likely.

Hey that's fine by me. I've stated my opinions and you haven't said anything that really made me reconsider them. I feel like at this point we're going in circles so fuck it.

So let's summarize
tool said "you did this thing which I think is scummy"
Jargo said "it is not scummy and you didn't note any scum motivation"
tool said "I did indeed note scum motivation and here are examples"
Jargo said "ONE (1) of those examples is from after I asked the question!!! conversation over!!!"
tool said "okay"

tool did not point out the gigantic logical fallacy made by Jargo. tool did not actually try to convince anyone of Jargo's scumminess besides Jargo herself. tool was making a lot of noise while trying not actually to be heard.

[SleepyKrew]

I'm also contemplating a massclaim
If we did one, I'd want it to be popcorn with tool starting
But I'm not entirely convinced if it's better to do today or tomorrow

[SleepyKrew]

Though actually
maybe
please other people help me think through this
I'm thinking:
"whoever killed Jargonaut starts the claiming and popcorns from there
if no one claims that kill, then popcorn starting with [player] (tool)"
No one actually act on this yet

[SleepyKrew]

TSO, how do you differentiate a bad bus from scum not knowing which townie to vote because they're not sure how to fake genuine scumhunting?

PEDIT:
Dice, I'm assuming worst-case-but-still-in-the-game, which would be 3v2 LYLO tomorrow. The earlier you claim, the harder it is to make stuff up later. Massclaims in general are a good idea because they give information to town and force scum to think on their feet. Early massclaims are bad because then they give too much info to the scum, but I think it's late-enough in the game that benefits outweigh risks at this point. I think.

[SleepyKrew]

idk about tool. you're right that his push was weak, bad, whatever, but I've played scum with tool before and when he interacts with you, he puts in effort. if him and Jargo were scumbuddies, meta tells me his reaction would be a lot more concerted. I don't really know his town meta, I guess.

Open 545, btw.

... one game?
he clearly

was

putting in effort with Jargonaut
but I think he eased off the gas when he realized no one was paying attention to them because of B_E




also hightideofdice, thoughts on my tool case?

[SleepyKrew]

What stage in the argument would you think tool realised they were being ignored?

I think one of them and/or another Alien realized it and pointed it out to the other(s) around the time they mutually agreed to drop the subject.
In case anyone forgot:

Anybody with access to a quicktopic currently has daytalk.

[SleepyKrew]

I'll take a look at it.

It's not long
yet you responded to posts made after it

[SleepyKrew]

Why not? My gut has been one of my best tools in games, so why do you have such a problem with it? That last sentence looks like AtE.

So I have a question TBP. In 23 pages you made 4 vote. 1 RVS, and 3 on the largest wagon. Why have you been so conservative with your vote?

No objection to the bold?

Riptide, why are you opening today with a vote based on gut

and inactivity

?

[SleepyKrew]

My current scum reads are between tool and riptide.

why

[SleepyKrew]

oh snap well played

[SleepyKrew]

So assuming neither of them are scum

hang on

I learned very early on when I came back to this site that logical fallacies are committed just as readily -- sometimes moreso -- by town as they are by scum.

town can play sub-optimally but scum can't?
if not, why even make that statement (first quote) in the first place?

Let me ask you this -- did you think there was anything productive going on in that conversation? I didn't. We were going around in circles. I had already stated my beliefs and saw no reason to carry on. Jargonaut remained one of the scummier-looking people in the playerlist to me, and that was that.

Because if you actually pointed out that she completely dodged your argument and declared the conversation dead, I would've jumped all over that shit. Probably.

I wasn't making my posts in a vacuum; everyone could see my case.

It's not a real case if you're presenting it to the person you're calling scum. It's not a real case if you're content watching the town completely ignore your read.

[SleepyKrew]

@mod

VOTE: tool

Oops! Fixed votecount now
-N

[SleepyKrew]

In your experience, is that a real concern?

[SleepyKrew]

whoops

[SleepyKrew]

I'm confused by this question. Where did I say that scum can't play sub-optimally?

You're eliminating two candidates from your lynchpool because it wouldn't make sense for them to do what they did if they were scum (according to you).

Hindsight's 20/20, man. You see something that looks obviously scummy to you now, but you apparently didn't notice it at the time. I saw something that looked pretty much null (if also annoying) to me and didn't think to run around asking people what they thought of it.

You are correct in that I didn't notice. I wasn't paying attention to you/Jargonaut at all.
Running around asking people what they thought about something versus not saying anything at all is a false dichotomy

The reason I didn't press the case on Jargonaut harder is because I saw B_E as the better lynch. Why would I press a lynch on somebody who wasn't my top suspect, especially when there was support for a lynch of my top suspect?

Pretty confident you wouldn't be killed eh

In your experience, is that a real concern?

Getting an extra lynch in the form of a kill? Damn straight it's important.

You've actually been in a situation where a Vig getting killed negated their shot? And even if you had, why publicly ask the mod?

@Egg
just a quick explanation of why you shot Jargonaut for prosperity's sake please

@Everyone that isn't tool
Please in your next post give me your thoughts on my case on tool. If you already responded, feel free to quote that response. I'd just like them all nice and orderly for my own convenience/laziness

[SleepyKrew]

So, to recap, you're saying that it doesn't make sense for me to treat Jargonaut's logical fallacy as null while treating TSO and BPC's actions toward the late-day B_E wagon as town.

Let me clarify for you: Town say dumb things and use logical fallacies all the time. So do scum. Therefore, when I weigh the likelihood that a logical fallacy came from scum versus town, it usually doesn't result in a clear read. It comes out null.

Meanwhile, I have a hard time justifying one side of the equation (the scum explanation) for BPC and TSO doing what they did.

What you did was simplify three separate actions into one phrase ("sub-optimal play") and make it sound like I was suggesting that one alignment can't do it and one alignment can. What I was actually saying was that two actions appeared scummier than a third, separate action.

Basically, you were straw-manning me.

Okay this is devolving into "no ur wrong" so I'm not addressing this unless someone besides tool asks me to

I've already argued against this point. I was saying things. I said lots of things. They were in my case against Jargonaut and my subsequent interactions with her. I either could have done that, or I could have run around asking other people what they thought of Jargonaut and my case against her, which doesn't make sense to do with a secondary scumread.

What other middle ground exists between approaching other players directly with my case and posting it with the assumption that other people would read it? It seems like you're accusing me of being scum because I didn't push other people toward scumreading Jargonaut, so maybe you could help me understand by telling me what you expected me to do instead?

Don't pretend there isn't a huge connotative difference between "running around asking people" and "approaching other players directly with my case"

Again, my cases were there for everyone to read if I were to die.

And no guarantee that anyone would

You haven't addressed any part of the rest of my ISO besides Jargonaut

Was I supposed to?

you haven't given your reads

Was I supposed to?

you've barely addressed anybody else in the playerlist since this day started

Was I supposed to?

no that's just bullshit

At this point I feel like you're trying to force a case by jumping to some ill-founded conclusion with most of what I'm saying, and that raises alarms for me.

I would hope someone trying to lynch you would raise alarms!

[SleepyKrew]

So you do understand wanting to end a dumb, pointless argument with someone you're scumreading.

The difference is that Jargo said to stop in the same post that she made da fallacy, and you actually agreed, without even arguing about it

I see no difference between those two things.

So you're saying me not approaching other players directly with my case on Jargonaut makes me look like her partner?

OK, then, if that's the case then you should be able to point to posts in my ISO where I took my other cases to members of the town to try to convince them.

I'll wait.

See, I don't really take my cases to other people in the playerlist very often. And I feel like the fact that I didn't do it with my cases on people we now know are town (B_E, Cho) kind of proves that me not taking my case on Jargonaut to others in the playerlist doesn't mean I was doing it with some sort of special intent.

Do you have any examples from other games? Saying "I did the thing you're calling me scum for in the game you're calling me scum in" isn't a defense

You haven't addressed any part of the rest of my ISO besides Jargonaut

Was I supposed to?

The fact that you didn't lends evidence to my suspicion that you looked around for the first reason you could find to lynch somebody without really taking the time to develop reads and consider your options.

The fact that you haven't lends further evidence to that suspicion.

I tend not to give reads unless I'm asked to or I'm making a case

You've made 16 posts on D4. Eight were attacking me. Zero gave reads or cases on anyone besides me.

See above and below for reads. Not doing a case on anyone else because don't have any other cases. But let's look at what you originally said real quick

you've barely addressed anybody else in the playerlist since this day started

Far cry from

Posts talking about massclaim: 588, 591, 595

Posts asking questions to other players: 595, 596, 605, 606, 626, 653

Posts speaking with other players: 604, 609

The act of somebody trying to lynch me doesn't necessarily raise alarms. Townies make mistakes. It's the way you're going about it that's making me suspicious.

If you're a townie, isn't any attempted lynch on you ill-founded?

I'd like to know your reads of the other players.

Egg is nigh-confirmed town. Leaning town on Riptide and BPC. Scum you. Null on everyone else.

In your experience, is that a real concern?

Getting an extra lynch in the form of a kill? Damn straight it's important.

You've actually been in a situation where a Vig getting killed negated their shot? And even if you had, why publicly ask the mod?

Um, no, I haven't. That's basically the point; I don't know. That's why I'm asking the mod, y'see.

Have you ever been in a situation where the possibility has even been mentioned?

[SleepyKrew]

The difference is that Jargo said to stop in the same post that she made da fallacy, and you actually agreed, without even arguing about it

What I'm saying is that clearly you must know that there is a valid town explanation behind wanting to stop a stupid argument, even if it's with somebody you're scumreading -- because that's exactly what you just did. Now tell me why the way I did it makes the scum explanation more likely than the town explanation.

Reread the 661 quote

That's not what I said. What I said was, "I've done the thing you claim I did because Jargonaut was my partner with other players in the game, including some who are now confirmed town."

So you've been avoiding drawing attention to yourself all around instead of just that case. Cool. Still want those town examples.

If you really want me to do your meta work for you then sure, I'll look for examples. But I'm curious as to why you trust your top scumread to do so honestly.

If you provide counterexamples: hey I'm wrong and he did the work for me
If you don't: hey I'm right

What a convincing rebuttal.

sorry it's just hilarious
I can elaborate for any non-toolenduso if they want

Sorry if it came across unclear. By "addressed" I meant "given your reads on."

By that definition, I hadn't addressed anyone besides you at all until my last post

Of course. But that doesn't mean the person behind it is scum.

So what makes my ill-founded case the illest (besides how sick I am)?

Leaning town on Riptide and BPC.

Why?

Riptide for overnight Elyse case
BPC for being so vocal in defending B_E

[SleepyKrew]

@Egg
just a quick explanation of why you shot Jargonaut for prosperity's sake please

What are you trying to get out of this?

Just trying to cover my bases. You don't have to answer.

[SleepyKrew]

Do you have any examples from other games? Saying "I did the thing you're calling me scum for in the game you're calling me scum in" isn't a defense

These are games where I was town:

Micro 305: Field Day -- never asked anybody to comment on my case.

Mini 1541: The Heart of Artificial Reality -- never asked anybody to comment on my cases.

I'm still going through my other games, but I'll probably have at least one more.

Will answer TBP later.

In both of those, there were instances where you asked, unprovoked, "hey [person] what do you think about [scumread] and why?"
Just ran through your ISO in this game again and didn't see that wrt Jargonaut

So you've explained the difference between the two posts. Now tell me why the difference makes the scum explanation more likely than the town explanation that you have shown you not only understand, but embrace in your own play.

sorry can you reword this?

So you've been avoiding drawing attention to yourself all around instead of just that case. Cool.

This is called changing your argument to suit your existing bias.

The gist of the argument is still that you let her get away with a huge fallacy
You not wanting to draw attention is just bonus points

And it might make sense for you to use that as an argument if you actually knew whether or not that's a behavior I engage in regardless of alignment. But you don't, so instead you're insisting that I'm scum because I didn't meet some arbitrary expectation you set up. Cool.

I might unvote if you give me meta evidence that's really solid
But so far your meta has just strengthened my convictions

Exactly. You've focused almost entirely on me. This is called tunneling.

No, tunneling would be if I focused everything on you. I've focused my

attacks

on you.

[SleepyKrew]

SK, why are you leaning town on Riptide?

overnight Elyse case

And wouldn't it make sense for scum to be vocal against a town lynch to garner 'townie points'?

Do you think it's a viable strategy for scum to do so?
Also what happened to me being your top scumread?

I wanted to say Tool, but his play today has looked very town and Bipolar has me convinced.

what?

Oh my god I've finally caught up, I've actually been dreading reading the thread because all I could see was walls ]:

sorry here's something to make up for it

Spoiler:

[SleepyKrew]

Speaking of which- tool, please tell me why you seemingly want to get into wall wars that only serve to annoy and distract the town?

I feel excluded

As well as this, it feels like we're going through the motions because we basically have the game locked down - Egg's conftown, tool and BPC are very town, I know I'm town and people get that as well, so we're just deciding on who we lynch and who Egg kills tonight and barring unlikely circumstances, we can't lose.

there's a big difference between very town and confirmed town

Done well, yes, I can definitely see it work. Overdo it and it'll get called out.

Rescind my BPC townread

[SleepyKrew]

oh guys TPB is L-1
I don't think there's intent to hammer from anyone though
Guess I should reread that stuff

[SleepyKrew]

holy crapathy
Tomorrow

[SleepyKrew]

I was going to ask about hydraing back in but then N told me secret things so I couldn't
Congrats scum! Very well done.
But dammit N

tool, do you think my thing on you was actually good or I that I just got lucky?

[SleepyKrew]

Thanks for the feedback tool

TSO, that post where you were talking about how fucking lost you felt in this game after the double Night felt genuine to me and pretty much locked in a townread.